Meat is murder

It's still meat when it's alive
Living=murder

>>737989728
go xVEGANx

>>737989838

checkmate atheists

>>737989728
Boi I been vegan for over a year now and life is good. Got a qt3.14 (who loves to swallow cause my diet apparently makes my cum taste good), I'm making athletic progress in my chosen sport, my dick is even bigger now, no acne, small woodland creatures follow me, Blood tests show I have healthier vitamin and hormone levels than before. Significantly lower risks of getting diabetes, cancer and heart disease.

All that and you're living more compassionately and environmentally responsible. Join me friends, I never thought I'd be vegan but here I am

>>737989728
everything dies, learn to come to grips with reality.

veganism is a mental illness that suggests that just because a cow is cuter than a carrot, we shouldn't eat the cow.. but the carrot was alive too.

lets all eat dirt and drink water, that way we wont be killing anything.

>>737989728
Sorry, but there is no evidence of that since it is consumed.
Checkmate, atheist.

Porn is prostitution, still here i am

>>737989728
Coffee is ground up bean water.

>>737989728
You say that like it's a bad thing.

>>737990812
>everything dies, learn to come to grips with reality.

deep

>veganism is a mental illness

DSM V needs an update then

>suggests that just because a cow is cuter than a carrot, we shouldn't eat the cow.

Implying carrots aren't cute

>but the carrot was alive too

Solid point we should stop killing viruses too

>lets all eat dirt and drink water,

Let's not

>that way we wont be killing anything.

Derp

relevant article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vegan-child-removed-parents-custody-milan-italy-after-found-malnourished-a7130571.html

veganism is child abuse.

>>737990933

Soy milk is actually soy juice

>>737989728
People try to convince themselves and others that they don't eat living, or once-living, creatures.
Even a grass-eating cow must munch up some grubs and insects when it grazes. For humans it's just a matter of scale; you're still eating living creatures.
You're hypocrites.

If we're not supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

>>737991010

Op said nothing about veganism

>>737990572
You can always tell a vegan.
But you have to be quick before he tells you.

>>737991151

we should stop this epidemic of cows eating flies and have mandatory sensitivity training for cows

yeah i want to go vegan
but i have a lot of health problems, when i get to a normal weight again im going vegan

>>737991264

What a hack line.

You're the fucker who doesn't know how to merge right aren't you?

>>737991151
Nope. You're correct in that it's about scale though. The intelligence and brain function of a cow or a pig means that the experience of suffering they experience is most likely greater than that of an insect. Since we don't need the meat of those animals to thrive, why consume them?

The world is imperfect but there is nothing hypocritical in trying to lessen the suffering you cause

>>737991528

Does this mean we can eat republicans and democrats without any guilt?

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>>737989728
Delicious.

>>737991907

I didn't say it wasn't delicious

both of my sisters are hardcore vegans. you know, the type of person who go on anti meat protest and want to close slaughterhouse while crying at trucks full of tasty pig.

i only continue to talk to them because they are my sisters because other than that they are stupidly annoying and say because i eat meat it mean i dont mind violence again dogs and cats

>>737991528
There is nothing about any of this in the dick waving first post you made.
Your implication was that you are so much better than anyone else because you're a vegan.
Smugness, however based, is not a worthy attribute.

>>737992102

I mean people are annoying I guess that makes it okay to spite them

>>737991718
>Does this mean we can eat republicans and democrats without any guilt?
But with lots of Gentlemens' Relish.

>>737989728
Murder only occurs between people.
Cows, pigs, chickens, etc. aren't people.
Therefore, cows, pigs, chickens, etc. can neither murder nor be murdered.

There is nothing I enjoy more than getting up early, going out into the countryside, seeing a helpless deer feeding and trying to get laid, and then blasting a bloody hole through its heart. I then cut out its guts, rip off its skin, slice its flesh into pieces, and cook it. It makes me hungry just thinking about it.

>>737992384

Oh literal anon

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>>737991528
>we don't need the meat of those animals to thrive

>>737989728
the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another

>>737992532

Please stop talking to my kids

...everyone knows humanity is running out of land and resources to support livestock, you're not proving anything other than being annoying (if not troll) if its any consolation to you i feel bad when i consume meat, however to waste food is just as terrible so im stuck eating it anyway

>>737992555
You better believe I'll be literal when vegans try to equivocate killing people with killing not people.

>>737992629
He should take your kids out hunting.

Fuck you nigger

>>737992787
You're not wrong but equivocate doesn't mean what you think it means

The evolutionary step of eating meat rather than vegetation was what provided our ancestors with the evolutionary advantage over our competitors. Meat has a higher calorific content than vegetation and provided them with the energy needed for advanced brain development.
Interestingly, the second evolutionary step of cooking meat rather than eating it raw fulfilled the same purpose as the first evolutionary step of eating meat in the first place: Cooking meat makes it easier to eat and increases it's calorific content. So if we hadn't learned to cook and eat meat, we wouldnt be here today.

The only reason people can survive today on a purely vegetarian or vegan diet, is because of the abundance of food which is avaliable to us (mainly due to our step from hunter gatheres, to farming and agriculture)
So if vegans want to talk about what's "natural" (a term I've grown to despise), if anything eating meat is more natural

>>737992787

kek okily dokily

>>737992884
equivocate (v) use ambiguous language so as to conceal the truth or avoid committing oneself.

>>737992955
Yea pretty sure it was meant to say equate. Equivocate in the context above doesn't make a lot of sense.

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>>737992787

>he doesn't know it has metaphorical connotations

>>737989728
"I thought that its our primal instinct, as well as in our genes, to hunt for meaty food for the purpose of survival, and due to our complex diet we need a balanced portion of meats and vegetables each day?"
"No, That's just all of human history up until the last year"

>>737989728
By not eating meat your taking foot from the animals that you are trying to save some they have to eat lower quality products

>>737993228
See >>737992955

>>737992856

>he

>>737993317

Not applicable because there's no attempt at coercion. That's an assumption on your part.

meat is murder and it's god damn delicious

>>737993409
Amen to that

>>737993317

Not applicable because there's no redemption of splurging. That's an assassination on your bart.

>>737993335
Yep. As in, not me.

>>737992251
You're right, I was being a total shithead. I saw this post, assumed there would be a bunch of "lol but bacon tastes good" type posts so I decided to be an asshole and make an obnoxious shit post preemptively.

While most of my post was antagonistic and a joke, my actual decision has all been based on the ethics, though there have been perosnal benefit "side effects" you could say. As a person I'm not vocal about it unless someone sees the food I'm eating and asks me questions about what I'm eating and why or whatever. But if anyone here has any genuine questions or points of discussions I'm down to be serious and talk about it

>>737993396
u wot m8? u havin' a giggle?

>>737993317

Not acid ball because there's no adjective on co-fusion. That's an Orangutan on your Snoke.

>>737990572
Side effect being that you're now a compulsive liar.

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>>737992560
We can clone them with no gene to have a brain or head in general so we can still have burgers nigga.
Please don't get rid of meat.

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>>737993537

Sheldon!

>>737989728
Not by definition

Murder is unlawful and against another person

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>>737993661

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>>737993591

Not amiable bee cows there ams no confusion. Darts are an ocean on your start.

>>737993661
Kek. No, no we can't.

>>737993724

A cube is a square if you're only looking at it from one angle.

>>737993898
One in hand is worth two in the bush.

See, I can throw out random sayings too.

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>>737993815
>>Yea we can.
We want beef bitch.

>>737994036

Now you're getting it

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>>737994041
That's why we have this wonderful invention called cows

>>737994242
I like to call them meat pinatas.

>>737989728
And?

>>737992893
> the only reason people can survive today on a purely vegetarian or vegan diet, is because of the abundance of food which is available to us

Right. So instead of living primatively, why not use our abundance to live more ethically? You're correct that historically we ate meat, but we also did a lot of fucked up shit to survive that we don't need to do now.

>>737994366

Sorry forgot the period

>>737994395
It is only more "ethical" to eat vegan in the way that it is more "ethical" to not drive around for fun or watch cat videos on the internet.

>>737994395
Ethically according to who? Literally everything humanity can feasibly use to survive food-wise is alive. We're still going to kill something.

And if it's pain we're trying to avoid, is it ethically acceptable to painlessly kill an organism?

Being a vegitarian is rape

>>737994625
>>737994581

I knew the ethics part would trigger you when I was reading what anon wrote. Moral relativism at it's finest.

>>737994762
>I don't understand what moral relativism is, so I'm just going to toss that term out there

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>>737994762
>avoiding the actual questions
>implying ethical principals can ever be absolute

>>737994581
What

>>737994581
I mean I kind of assumed it was pretty accepted that it's more ethical by everyone. Eating nuts and grains and plants and tofu probably does some harm to things but it's just not even comparable to the astronomical death rates that occur in factory farms that could be done away with. I think we are trying to avoid pain, and taking lives of any sort.

Is it ethically acceptable to kill an organism if it's painless? I'm not sure. If someone told me I was going to be killed tomorrow but I wouldn't feel it, I'd say it's not fair. But ethics and what not are a tricky subject with a lot of grey areas. Beganism isn't perfect but I think it's definitely a step in the right direction

>>737994986

>What are ethics anyway?

>Don't accuse me of moral relativism though.

>>737995035

Again not into moral relativism. It's chaos and it makes you an apologist for humanities atrocities.

>>737995061
Is it ethical to let millions starve and die because meat comes from something with an more advanced nervous system than the organisms on the other side of the line in the sand?

>>737989728
Meat is also tasty, fulfilling, and nutritional.

>>737995173
>still avoiding the question and now I'll throw in a "you're a nazi"
Thanks for playing

>>737995061
>What?
The only thing immoral about killing animals is the environmental impact. In the same way, driving a car is immoral and wasting electricity on cat videos is immoral.
>I mean I kind of assumed it was pretty accepted that it's more ethical by everyone
You assumed wrong.
> I think we are trying to avoid pain, and taking lives of any sort.
Nope.
P.S. Plants are alive.
>Is it ethically acceptable to kill an organism if it's painless?
If it isn't, then you have to starve yourself to death.

>>737995318

What was the question?

>>737995173
>What are ethics anyway?
I'll take "Things I never said" for $500 Alex.

>>737995318

You said nazi first for the record

>>737995465

Oh no you're mistaken this actually isn't the show Jeopardy right now

>>737995410
See >>737994625

>>737989728
That band sucks, Marr's guitar work couldn't save it and we feed off death regardless.

>>737995638

>Ethically according to who

According to anybody who realizes that killing is wrong I guess.

>And if it's pain we're trying to avoid, is it ethically acceptable to painlessly kill an organism?

It's not pain we're trying to avoid. That's a strawman. It's an animal holocaust that I object to.

>>737995490
Damn, and here I thought you just couldn't read.

>>737995226
I'm not really sure I understand the situation you're trying to portray or how it relates to the subject matter.

I'd obviously not want millions to starve of any sort...but if it's between millions of tiny brained low cognitive processing bugs dying over emotionally capable beings like cows and pigs and chickens I guess I'd support the more sentient ones. That and factory farms aren't just killing happy little dudes living life normal, they're torturing them and caging them in shit conditions etc. which adds to the negatives of their situation. Who would be starving in your hypothetical situation?

>>737989728
Op pussy

>>737995733
>According to anybody who realizes that killing is wrong I guess.
So I did bad when I disinfected my kitchen counter?
> It's an animal holocaust that I object to.
Who is going to stand against the bacterial holocaust!

>>737995733
>killing is wrong
Have fun starving

>animal holocaust
But fuck the organisms that provide the air we breathe

>>737989728
Lots of things are murder, pussy. Eat meat, repeat.

>>737995733
But you don't object to the killing of very much alive plants? Where exactly do you draw the line and why there?

>>737995854

I just got my pet amoeba yesterday and it already knows how to use the litterbox and it cuddles me every night

>>737995061

honey bee's dislike activated almonds, good sir!

fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts use A LOT of water

>>737996104
Just make sure to keep it out of your brain.

>>737996087

I draw the line at things with a central nervous system. I don't object to eating meat for survival, health, or just to eat meat. I object to the manufactured killings of millions of animals to serve an undeserving populace that will never know what it is to have to kill for survival. I think the industrialization of killing animals is sick and should not be tolerated.

>>737995802
I agree that torturing animals is wrong. Kill them cleanly. It's more humane and you get better meat. But if the only difference between a bug and a pig that matters is that one realizes pain better and you remove the pain, the only argument left is the value of life. We cannot live without other things dying. That's is an axiom of our current ecology.

>>737996272
>I draw the line at things with a central nervous system
Why?
> I object to the manufactured killings of millions of animals to serve an undeserving populace that will never know what it is to have to kill for survival
Edgy.
> I think the industrialization of killing animals is sick and should not be tolerated.
k. I don't and I think efficiency is a good thing.

>>737990988
what in the actual fuck was the point of this post?

>>737995384
> the only thing immoral about killing animals is the environmental impact
What's going on in your mind to think that environmental damage is immoral, but torturing and killing innocent creatures isn't even somewhat immoral

Plants don't have the cognitive processes that animals do. If you believe that cutting your lawn is equivalent to murdering 1000s of puppies there's really no way we'll see eye to eye about anything because you're in a completely different world.

>you have to starve yourself to death
That would only be true if I said vegans were ethically perfect. We're not. But ethical behavior is a spectrum and meat eaters and more specifically factory farm supporters are further down that spectrum than someone that eats non-sentient lifeforms

>>737989728
You're a Fag
You're murder to decency in society

>>737996189

>Doesn't know the joy of having a pet amoeba

>Cynical and bitter out of jealousy

>>737996390

Calling somebody edgy doesn't make your point right. Do you want to talk seriously or not?

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>>737989728
It just hit me.
The No-Friendo Switch.
The ultimate gaming console.

Instructions on how to use the No-Friendo Switch™

Take one finger and insert into mouth.
Take second finger and insert into anus.
Keep fingers in respective orpheus's for 1 hour or so.

Make sure you have someone with you so that once the hour is up they can yell "SWITCH".
Once said person says this you immediately switch the fingers location.

After this is complete you will have achieved a state of higher intellect that is incomprehensible to mere mortals.

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>>737994395
Imagine actually caring about this shit though. You're for sure a troll, but imagine the faggots that post this rubbish everywhere

>>737996412
>What's going on in your mind to think that environmental damage is immoral
Because it impacts people.
>torturing and killing innocent creatures isn't even somewhat immoral
Because they aren't people.
>Plants don't have the cognitive processes that animals do
So?
> If you believe that cutting your lawn is equivalent to murdering 1000s of puppies there's really no way we'll see eye to eye about anything because you're in a completely different world.
I'm in one based on reason. You're in one based on arbitrary feelings.
>But ethical behavior is a spectrum and meat eaters and more specifically factory farm supporters are further down that spectrum than someone that eats non-sentient lifeforms
Nope.

>>737996541
I will if you will. Declaring that the populace is "undeserving" does not make it so.

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>>737989728 (OPenis)

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I love vegetarians.

>>737996412
Lol you care to much bro. I was almost like you before. There are no moral consequences in this world. The suffering of others isn't your burden. Eventually you will be exploited by someone you love. Fuck all life. Eat everything, maybe humans some day.

>>737996286
In a thread of dinguses, your logic makes sense. You're right, if pain is removed how do we make these choices? First, I think it's PRETTY RARE to find any factory farm situation where pain isn't relevant. Even in the cleanest most humane executions, the animal is not living happily leading up to it. Maybe on some local farm I'd say it's pretty ethical to eat meat; but can you admit that pretty much all factory farms are unethical to support?

Secondly you're right about the difficulty in weighing lives...BUT eating meat still results in the deaths of microorganisms and what not. Veganism if it was largely supported would still result in death but a smaller amount imo

>>737996726

I think you should have to kill your meat. That's where I stand morally. Naturally, with this line of thinking, I would then think that the population is undeserving. That's not edgy, just consistent with my beliefs. You can mock those beliefs, nut ultimately I'm just answering the question that you mocked me for not answering.

>>737989728

So what?

>>737996932
I think you should have to grow your own crops, frack your own oil, and hand build your own solar panels.

>>737996932
>I think you should have to kill your meat.
Why? Should we have to kill our veggies too?
>That's not edgy, just consistent with my beliefs
Your beliefs are edgy.
>You can mock those beliefs
I sure can.

Using plastic and oils is the same as eating meat. They're both products of dead animals. Difference being some of the animals died millions of years ago. Checkmate vegans with smartphones

>>737989728
Meat is also delicious

>>737997113

I think you should have to strawman your own strawmen, strawman your own strawmen, and strawman your own strawmen.

>>737989728
Vegetables are murder too. #CarrotLivesMatter

>>737997144

Imagine being this cowardly

>>737996641
I genuinely think you're autistic or something.

You say that environmental issues have a moral basis cause they impact humans....why do you think humans matter more than any other meat sack walking around on this earth? Why are ethical values only relevant in regards to humans? I'd love to see you make any convincing argument in support of that line of reasoning.

>I'm in one based on reason. You're in one based on arbitrary feelings
Le tip of the fedora to you good sir. I'm making valid arguments that causing unnecessary suffering in beings with advanced cognitive awareness is probably a bad thing. You're argument is hurr durr only humans matter cause I am one.

>>737991147
THIS IS FUCKING ME UP SO BAD RN

>>737989728
The animal "suffers" and dies and then there is nothing...
Its fucking dead. So what the fuck is your point OP?

If vegans eat plants and other such organisms, then isn't advocating for being vegan dangerous to the animals? Think about it, if the whole human race became vegan, what would we do with the cows? We used them for food, and now we don't. And what would we do with all the factories, which destroys jobs, which means those people would have a much more difficult time. AND THINK ABOUT THE COWS, WHAT FOOD WOULD THEY HAVE LEFT?!?!

>Because animals left alone in the wild live forever in magical fairy land

A bullet is the most humane death any of them are going to see

>>737997373
?

>>737992629
It only (if good shot) takes 2-3 for the deer to die and deer meat is very good

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>>737989728

>>737997620
*2-3 seconds

>>737996911
Oh it's absolutely rare. And I find the current state of farming practices to be largely despicable. But even if we accept all of this, the matter of practicality is still present. Regardless of your ethical code, the jury is still out on whether humans(either individually or en masse) can survive on a vegan diet, let alone thrive. Vegan diets take resources and circumstances to which many populations do not have access.

The problem is when people try to make this a moral argument. Moral arguments get you no where because morality is subjective just like every other man made concept. Meat is murder? Tell that to my starving children. Stalemate, no movement, no one is better off.

>>737997678

I'm a vegetarian and I approve of this

>>737997445
>why do you think humans matter more than any other meat sack walking around on this earth?
Because we are a society of humans. The role of morality is to enable social functioning.
>I'm making valid arguments that causing unnecessary suffering in beings with advanced cognitive awareness is probably a bad thing.
You really aren't. You are just asserting it.

>>737996909
I'm with ya doggie, I do care too much. I don't believe there are any moral consequences though, just like you. I just believe that suffering exists and if I can lessen it even a little with relatively low impact to myself; it's worth doing. A juicy burger tastes good but I've grown up seeing food as fuel so I don't mind much.

>>737989728
Evidently, I am ok with murder. Delicious, delicious murder.

>>737997532
This is very true i have talked to vets that will tell you this and some will say it is best to just use a .22 than have them use injections

>>737997807
>Because we are a society of humans. The role of morality is to enable social functioning.

But name one way that the planet or the rest of the animal kingdom would be worse off if we disappeared tomorrow.

Agent Smith hit the nail on the head. Humans are a virus

>>737997291
It all has an impact on somebody or something. I couldn't care less about the suffering of others let alone a fucking farm animal at this point.

>>737997445
Technically, moral and ethics values are all based on the individual and their society. What was originally moral in one time period is no longer in ours. There is no set system that the universe abides by, only what we can come up with. So with something as abstract as our morals, what makes you think that your morals and ethics are more righteous than ours?

>>737998060
>But name one way that the planet or the rest of the animal kingdom would be worse off if we disappeared tomorrow.
I can't, but that doesn't matter. There is nothing intrinsic to humans that make us in any way "better." Humans have moral standing in human morality because we are a society of humans. Non-humans do not have moral standing in human morality because they are not part of our society nor do they have the potential to be part of our society. A cow will never be President. A pig will never open a business. A turkey will never write a novel.

If we all stopped eating meat it would take a animal genocide to balance out the population of the farm animals and would cause a lot more animals to die from servation and deforestation to make way for plant Farms

I've worked in chicken houses before. It took me a long time afterwards to eat chicken again.

I'm convinced that if everyone had to tour a processing plant before they ate their next hamburger or bucket of KFC, we would have 200x more vegans

>>737989728
I thought about going vegan.

Then I remembered I'm not a gigantic faggot.

>>737989728
Ok. And?

>>737997741
At the end of the day it's a personal matter. Can I thrive off a vegan diet? Yes. Can you? Possibly. Could many people? I think so. Could everyone thrive of going vegan? No, many people don't have the resources or other factors in place to make it work and that's ok. We live in an imperfect world. But if people are capable of making a change I think it's worth doing.

>>737998376
Never had the tour, but I've watched those vegan propaganda videos with no problem at all. It's like watching a wheat thresher do its thing.

>>737998390

It's good to base your moral compass on arbitrary notions of coolness. Reminds me of SJW culture.

>>737989728
Fine with that, tastes good.

>>737998307
>A cow will never be President. A pig will never open a business. A turkey will never write a novel.

A cow will never slaughter millions of other cows. A pig will never make a video of it setting a cat on fire for fun. A turkey will never gas other turkeys and bury them in mass graves

so is eating vegetables which are ALIVE you fucking hypocrite.

>>737989728
so when a plant get's killed at harvest, you are claiming that's not murder?

way to discriminate against lower cognitive life forms. do you not know where you have evolved from? you are just trading one type of energy for another

>>737989728
Of course it's murder. And by postmodernist standards so is murdering plants and consuming their vegetables and reproductive organs. All life feeds on life, you dumb sissy fucking commie.

>>737998569
Nothing you just said is in any way relevant.

>>737998569
given a long enough time line, they very well might.

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>>737998597

so u eet vegital well now i got u

>>737998656
Your contention was that humans have a 'moral standing' when we're really just a bunch of sociopathic self serving hairless apes

>>737998275
I believe my ethics are more compassionate because the society I'm taking into question is more extended then the self-interested society of "humans"

I believe that animals deserve to have their lives considered as well. I'm extremely far from perfect but I think it's a good thing to at least consider the wellbeing of living beings other than our immediate society

>>737998713
i try, but when i think of all the low cognitive things that i injest, i just want to stop breething altogether

>>737998569
Animals lack all that make them human, good and bad. Animals are tools with varying degrees of utility. Some are extremely useful, others are really only good for looking at in a zoo. But the value of any animal is always less than that of a healthy human life.

>>737998569
But a pig can eat a adult human is 6 hours a turkey can be mean as shit and stab you with its spurs from the back of its leg

>>737989728
no it isn't

>>737998746
"Moral standing, in ethics, the status of an entity by virtue of which it is deserving of consideration in moral decision making. To ask if an entity has moral standing is to ask whether the well-being of that entity should be taken into account by others; it is also to ask whether that entity has moral value or worth and whether it can make moral claims on other beings."

>>737998837
if they can't argue on their own behalf, then there's no consideration to be had and by this logic, I am saying eating babies is ok too

>>737998918
technically turkeys have been known to shoot humans. look it up, I am not joking.

>>737998901
What you don't really seem to understand is that they would be perfectly fine without us. Other than the few species we've domesticated, we're the only ones utterly dependent
>>737998961
Humans are the least ethical animal on the planet. We actually understand what we're doing, how we're jamming the sandpaper dildo in the ass of nature, but we just keep doing it anyway because "gimme gimme gimme, right now"

>>737998477
I can agree with that. However I want to urge you as amicably as possible to continue your education as you live with your lifestyle. The science behind Veganism is far from settled and there is still a very active debate as to whether or not humans can biologically thrive without consuming animal protein. Good discussion though anon

>>737999142
>Humans are the least ethical animal on the planet
Irrelevant.

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>>737991907
How come these giant bullshit sandwiches are always impossible to eat? Is it really that goddamn hard to put the cheese on the bread?

Morals are all relative. You're wasting precious time caring about others. Take it from me, i used to care way too much about the planet and the suffering of all life. Now i only care about my friends and family. Couldnt care less if everyone else burned to death.

>>737989728
No, murder is murder.

>>737992102
Shut up and watch Hondo,faggot.

>>737999095
If you ever been turkey hunting and 2 a male comes out the younger one will act as a lookout while the larger one or the alpha finds a mate if you shoot the larger turkey the younger one will start spiking and pecking the wounded turkey so it now gets the title of alpha so if you hunt with a buddy you can use that to bag two turkeys

>>737999240
>Humans being the least ethical animal on the planet is irrelevant in a discussion on humans being ethical

See: Cognitive dissonance

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>>737993661
That's stupid, and would be bland as fuck. How are fat cells going to distribute within the meat?

>>737998837
Compassionate? Sure. You value all kinds of life, more than others. But your morals and ethics can't necessarily be applied to others. Everybody has a different perception of the world. So while I agree with you, others might not.

PS - I'm not a vegan because I honestly just see meat as another part of the life cycle. Food is food to me, be it a plant or an animal.

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>>737989728
Murder tastes so good on a bun with the extra gluten that the gluten freaks don't want and melty cheese and crispy bacon. Come to think of it, the more things that come from things with faces that you pile on that bun just makes it taste better and better.
Also literally no one cares what vegans think or say except for other vegans. sage.

>>737999397
*2 male turkeys come out

I am a mobile fag so a lot of typos

>>737991147
>implying soybeans dont have tits

>>737999431
You really are incapable of even understanding the basics of ethics aren't you? I even took the time to define moral standing for you.

The discussion is not whether or not humans are ethical. The discussion is what should have ethical consideration. These are not equivalent.

>>737999662
MAKE PORN OF IT, NOW!

>>737998837
>I believe my ethics are more compassionate because the society I'm taking into question is more extended then the self-interested society of "humans"
>I believe that animals deserve to have their lives considered as well. I'm extremely far from perfect but I think it's a good thing to at least consider the wellbeing of living beings other than our immediate society
go find some vegans (easy since they are loud) and make your own country then faggot or deal with it until society changes

>>737989728
you love animals so much stop eating their food

>>737999712
The fact that humans aren't ethical negates the notion that we're capable of determining what should receive consideration.

It's like asking a robot how much pain a human should feel while being tortured

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>>737999897
B- But ethics and morals are a human concept.

>>737989728
It is not murder. Livestock aren't people. They aren't moral agents capable of being part of society. Lower animals have no rights but by the mercy of man. Cows, pigs, and chickens have neither the ability to harm humans, nor the mental capacity to use that power to implicitly bargain for rights.

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>>737998376
No, but I have helped clean and butcher a pig. There is nothing like having carnitas, tenderloin, and cracklins within the same hour; from said pigs lard. That was great! I should have suggested fries though.

>>737990988
i bet you thought this was clever huh

>>737999897
>The fact that humans aren't ethical negates the notion that we're capable of determining what should receive consideration.
Except it doesn't, both because we are demonstrably capable of making determinations in regard to ethics and because nobody else is going to do it for us.
>It's like asking a robot how much pain a human should feel while being tortured
Which is something that could conceivably occur, and the robot would have some metric it goes by.

>>738000023
me and my GSD both eat meat. so fuck your dumb shit

>>738000375
Wot

>>738000302
>Except it doesn't, both because we are demonstrably capable of making determinations in regard to ethics and because nobody else is going to do it for us.

But we're not. Humans are self serving above all else.

>Which is something that could conceivably occur, and the robot would have some metric it goes by.

It could detect a level of such and such in the brain that was preprogrammed by a human but a robot itself has no referent to pain.

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>>737989728
Yes, meat is murder.

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>>737989728
Can't argue with this unless your a religious zealot.

>>737989728
>2k18-1
>eating meat
the memes are spicy today, i see

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>>737989728
The largest land mammals are herbivores. Try telling a mother elephant you're at the top of the food chain.

>>738000571
>But we're not.
We are. This thread is full of such determinations. That humans are self-serving is irrelevant.
>It could detect a level of such and such in the brain that was preprogrammed by a human but a robot itself has no referent to pain.
Correct. And?

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>>737989728
It is the most responsible way. Become Chad++. Go vegan.

>>738000701
The largest animal to have ever existed is a carnivore. Your point?

>>738000701
Reminder that chimpanzees eat meat.

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>>737989728
Gainz motherfucker!!! Do you speak it?!?!

>>738000783
That's a gorilla. But you are right they also eat meat.

>>738000769
>vegans are chad++
ahahahahahahahahaha

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>>737989728

>>738000734
>irrelevant

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

The fact that humans are self serving above caring about the suffering of other organisms is entirely relevant. Would you rip off one of your own fingernails to keep a dog from being burned alive?

>Correct. And?

A robot is incapable of making an empathetic determination as are humans

>>738000857
I know it's a gorilla. Chimpanzees are more closely related to humans.

>>738000917
Ooooh I see your point, my bad.

>>738000901
> I do not think it means what you think it means.
Irrelevant (adj) not relevant; not applicable or pertinent.
>The fact that humans are self serving above caring about the suffering of other organisms is entirely relevant
How so?
>Would you rip off one of your own fingernails to keep a dog from being burned alive?
Is the dog someone's pet?
>A robot is incapable of making an empathetic determination as are humans
Irrelevant.

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>>737989728
Humane slaughter is an oxymoron that can only be explained by the dominant culture’s belief in what social psychologist Melanie Joy calls carnism. Humane slaughter is an oxymoron that can only be explained by the dominant culture’s belief in what social psychologist Melanie Joy calls carnism.

>>737990988
It's worth noting that biologists do not consider virus's to "be alive".
Without to much complexity, a virus is just a chain of RNA with a tough protein shell around it. When a virus injects a cell with its RNA, the energy and mass within the cell recognize that RNA as RNA and it begins to replicate it as it would its own. The reaction pathways of a virus look nothing alike the reaction pathways living cells like bacteria or living cells so it isn't considered "alive"

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>>737989728
This above all else: To thine own self be true.

>>738001078
>How so?

That means we put our own interests above the welfare of others

>Is the dog someone's pet

Thanks for proving my point. A dog has a nervous system whether or not it's owned by someone. A stray dog would not feel any less pain than a house pet

>Irrelevant

There's that word again. You can post a definition but you don't seem to understand it

>>737989728
Murder is delicious.

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>>737989728
Disconnect.

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>>737989728
Non human animals are beautiful.
It takes nothing away from a human to be kind to an animal.

>>738001252
>That means we put our own interests above the welfare of others
And?
>A stray dog would not feel any less pain than a house pet
So?
>You can post a definition but you don't seem to understand it
Pretty sure I do. I'll stop using it when you start saying something that matters.

>>737991010
Big government has no right to tell parents how to raise thier children. Only the parents know what's best for thier child, nobody else. At least here in America we can fight off an overrrachibg government. Ain't nobody touching my kids but me

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>>738001285
Veganism is delicious too. You have nothing to lose.

>>738001233
That looks efficient as fuck. What a piece of work is man.

>>737989728
Let's call in the definition of murder. To kill unlawfully with premeditation. This means to kill unlawfully, with the only intent being to see the murdered entity dead. Let's look to the farmer, who bred, raised and cared for this cow, and now comes the time where he will kill the cow. Not just to see the cow dead, but to aquire the meat he worked hard to get by breeding, raising and caring for the cow. Without the farmer, the cow would never have existed in the first place, and with the farmer, the cow lived and died. Like any natural being.

>>737990933

that's like "nicotine" in "tobacco". the plant is called nicotiana tabacum. the leaves should be called "nicotiana" and to call a collection of tons of chemicals "nicotine" is like a syndrome that ends with "itis".

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>>738001373
Plants are beautiful.
It takes nothing away from a human to be kind to a plant.

>>737996412

Posts like this are the reason I enjoy a juicy rib-eye steak whenever I can.

The thought that somewhere there is someone bitching about it incessantly somehow enhances the flavor.

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>>738001458
You can stop supporting the government-subsidized dairy industry by going vegan.

>>738001454
>And?

That means we're incapable of making ethical determinations.

>So?

You do realize you're just coming off as an edgy teenager?

>Pretty sure I do

You haven't thus far. You haven't even understood that an organism which is going to value its own well being over the interests of others can't be entrusted to make a determination regarding the well being of others

Steak sandwich

>>738001556
if i kill a human to eat his corpse, it's not murder? lol

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>>738001534
efficient, sure. responsible, no. you want to live life as a boy or a man?

It's quite obvious that those who post the pictures of teary-eyes animals, especially deer, have never had their harvest eaten by one. Have never had to take care of their own vegetable patch. Protect it, weed it, fertilize it - and then wake up one day to find it trampled and half-eaten.

>>738001627
>That means we're incapable of making ethical determinations.
Yet we do, all the time. We determine that it's unethical to kill one another.
>You do realize you're just coming off as an edgy teenager?
Irrelevant.
> You haven't even understood that an organism which is going to value its own well being over the interests of others can't be entrusted to make a determination regarding the well being of others
Despite the fact that this is demonstrably false, I'm curious: if humans can't make such determinations, what can? I don't recall seeing a treatise on ethics by a cow or a rose.

>>737990988
Not really deep, just a good point. Everything does die.

I can't really get into this, so I'm going to stay off the topic of wether or not it is.

I mean, cows are cuter than carrots though.

Not only are viruses not formally considered to be "alive" in a typical sense of the word, but the virus brings with it a threat to life. Neither the cow nor the carrot does.

Clearly exxagerated points to show where veganism is going to eventually.

>>738001627
>understood that an organism which is going to value its own well being over the interests of others
Look up evolution and get back to us on that one chief, because what you're railing against like a mewling infant is the very thing that got you to the point of being able to crap out you 'opinion' on any of this.

>>737998999
If I lived in a society where all our local fast foods served baby, and 98% of everyone there eats baby, I'd gladly eat it too. I would never go out of my way for ethic reasons. If it's normal and easy to do, I'll do it.

My life is the only one that matters. That's how every human is born to think. If you think otherwise, then maybe yours truly dosent matter.

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>>738001640
completely depends on consent. if i'm freezing as we hike Kilimanjaro together, you have my permission to eat me and harvest my nutrients. if you're talking about a calf born into servitude. you do not have his permission, so fuck off. this boils down to thievery for those who cannot process more advanced interactions. you lawful evil or chaotic neutral? vegans are the latter.

>>737989728
Not if it's consensual

>>738001821
>We determine that it's unethical to kill one another.

We have to have a set of stringent recourse in place in the very common case of such an event. Not killing because you don't want to be punished !+ ethical

>irrelevant

>M-maybe if I keep repeating that word I don't understand then reality will just go away

>if humans can't make such determinations, what can?

I never said anything could. Humans are JUST smart enough to destroy the ecosystem which we depend on

>>737992384
Murder, by definition, is not simply between humans. However, since an animal like a cow does not share the same rights as humans, killing it is not considered murder in a court of law as long as you own the cow. However, if you only kill the cow to see the cow dead, most people would consider it murder, and if under a lawsuit a jury may come to that conclusion.

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>>738001991

>>738002017
You do not have a chair's consent to sit on it.

Consent is only applicable to people.

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>>738002047
>>738002017
precisely. until you speak cow, stop eating burgers. except veggie burgers which are delish AF son.

>>737989728
I'm vegan dw

>>738002085
The laws around murder were created to further shut down the idea of killing another. It is morally right to avoid murder, but some people are born without a sense of morals, or under a broken household or other circumstances, did not properly develop those morals, and the laws allow those people to be guided into understanding what is morally right and wrong based on what they are punished by. Of course there are people who just don't give a shit, but those people are just dicks.

>>738002085
>We have to have a set of stringent recourse in place in the very common case of such an event.
Which we wouldn't have if we hadn't made the determination that it was wrong and should be prevented.
>Not killing because you don't want to be punished !+ ethical
Most humans will not kill other humans, even if they think they can get away with it. I don't know about you, but I don't go around thinking "if only the law weren't in the way, I could kill all these people". Laws are for the exceptions to the general rule.
>I never said anything could
Then what are we even talking about?

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>>738002169
plainly false. are you even trying? or do you adhere to the bible and think man sits on some throne. in your case, a throne of cocks.

>>738002122
>most people would consider it murder
I would not.

>>738002341
>It is morally right to avoid murder

Based on what?

>Which we wouldn't have if we hadn't made the determination that it was wrong and should be prevented.

No, which we wouldn't have if people weren't going to do it

> I don't know about you, but I don't go around thinking "if only the law weren't in the way, I could kill all these people". Laws are for the exceptions to the general rule.

I work around a lot of blacks, so yeah, I do

>Then what are we even talking about?

Your non-comprehension of the term 'irrelevant'

>>738002398
>plainly false
In what way?
>or do you adhere to the bible
Nope.
>and think man sits on some throne
No throne, just that it's humans that matter in human morality.

>>738001640
Cows and other animals do not share the same rights that humans do. It is illegal to kill another human unless provoked reasonably. This does not apply to cows.

>>738002515
Are... You responding to the right post?

>>738002440
I'm not inclined to trust you, as you could be lying for the sake of an arguement, but assuming you're not, I didn't say everyone.

>>738002650
If you were half as intelligent as you'd like to think you would realize one reply bled into another because I forgot to click a post number

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>>737989728
I try to have some murder at EVERY meal.

>>737991907
quadruple bypass burger at the heart attack grill if anyone is curious

>>738001991

Do you really believe that? Or are you just desperately trying to come up with logically coherent arguments of your worldview because you already comitted to moral relativism earlier and won't have the guts to back down now.

If you truly have no moral compass of your own then it's only a matter of time until either someone talks you into doing something horrible or you snap on your own because everything besides yourself is worthless anyways. I hope you dont drag someone else down with you when you sink

>>738002768
Then that's your lack of intelligence for not double checking your post, not mine.

>>738002732
I realize you didn't say everyone. I'm saying that I'm part of the group that would not, and I think that I am correct to not. It is no more murder to kill a cow, for whatever reason, than it is to kill a bacterium.

>>738002842
>I forgot to click another post number

>You can't tell what's being replied to when the comments being replied to are right there

Try again

>>737989728
yes it is


is there a problem?

>>738002865
I do respect your way of thinking, they are lesser than humans after all, but I do still think that with the intelligence they have, to kill a cow and not harvest it's meat is wrong. And, you know, killing someone else's cow is just a dick move.

>>738003001
Well killing someone else's cow is wrong since that's destruction of property.

>>737993544
> Not vocal about paganism
> Posts meat is murder unprovoked.
Nice try, good luck next time.

>>738002887
It's still not my fault that you're incompetent enough to forget to respond to the right post. It's cute how you try to pin your mistakes on others, though. For the record, my original question about which comment you were responding to was meant as a way to ask if you fucked up something there, not an insult, so stop being so overly aggressive. It's the Internet, calm yourself.

>>738003144
Exactly.

>>738003189
Veganism*

>>738003204
>Can't understand what's being replied to when what's being replied to is greentexted

>Can't even understand the definition of irrelevant

>Calls someone else incompeten

See: Psychological projection

Alright, I think I've had enough of random shitposters trying to insult me for eating meat. Have fun with whatever you were trying to accomplish with this post, OP.

>>738003302
Is... Is that the second time you called me out on something to do with irrelevant? You do realize that was someone else? You know, the first time you fucked up? Two different posters, bud. I may not know who you were responding to, but shit, neither do you.

>>738003539
Eh they don't think it be like it is but it do

>>738003651
/thread

>>737989728
I think the main issue with consuming meat is that, you shouldn't eat meat if you didn't catch it yourself.

If you catch it, kill it and prepare it, that's fucking nature; eat that shit, you deserve it boss.

Not fair to be bred into captivity just to be eaten by fat shits that couldn't physically catch you anyway.

For the overweight people that are unable to catch and eat what they kill, the only thing they can catch is salad. Obesity solved.

>>738003189
I wasn't the OP dickhead

>>738003743
Farming occurs in nature, and that's before you get into the whole "humans are part of nature" thing.

>>738003743
Alright, I agree with you there, but take this scenario.

You are a farmer, you've reached into your older years, and your creaky joints and strained muscles have stopped you from hunting yourself, and you have to children to hunt for you. Is it wrong to breed cows for milk and beef for yourself? You didn't catch the cows, but you built the pen, you purchased the first two cows, and you put hours every day into caring for them.

>>738003911
Yeah that is true, I guess it starts getting blurry when I start thinking along those lines.

Guess I just don't like the super industrial mode farming has evolved into

>>738003945
Yeah, see: >>738004025
I definitely agree with you there though; that is nature, that's a family working to feed it's members

>>738002786
>Do you really believe that?

Yes.

>Or are you just desperately trying to come up with logically coherent arguments of your worldview because you already comitted to moral relativism earlier and won't have the guts to back down now.

I made that idea years ago. I still see it as reasonable and I have no reason to back down from my own claims.

>If you truly have no moral compass of your own then it's only a matter of time until either someone talks you into doing something horrible

I've done horrible things before. Many. Only difference is, I do it because it's common place. Like said, I don't go out of my way for moral reasons.

>you snap on your own because everything besides yourself is worthless anyways. I hope you dont drag someone else down with you when you sink

I was born knowing everything is worthless. I'll die and none of this will matter to me. I won't sink. Hell, I can almost garentee my life is more successful than your. People dream about doing what I do.

I'd never drag anyone to my high level of understand and low morals. They don't matter to me. No one here matters. My life is far more better this way. I can spend that time getting money or playing games, rather than trying to convince people of arbitrary believes.

Little about me: retired, made over 100k yearly, served in the army, have a wife and a child. I've past middle age long ago. I might just be one of the oldest oldfags here.

>>738004109
That begs the question, is it the capitalism and the industrialization of the meat industry that bugs you, or the sheer numbers of farm animals used in it?

>>738004318
I feel like I'd answer by saying the capitalisation/industrialisation of the industry bothers me; ultimately its the emotional disconnect I think.

There's no longer the emotional connection between the hunter and the prey; each animal on the industrial line has just become a "unit" of produce.

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>>737989728
just gonna leave these here
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/05/19/malnourished-baby-dies-after-parents-fed-him-vegan-diet/22099336/

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/05/19/malnourished-baby-dies-after-parents-fed-him-vegan-diet/22099336/

>>737989728
Tasty, tasty murder.

>>737991340
Or say fuck it and kill the cows for being faggots

>>737999392
no

>>737999456
real carefully

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>>738006079
it's true ?
Watches at $0 ?

>>738006498
WOw is this it's true???
Watches at NO $$$ $0???

>>738006498
No watches at no zero (ZERO) dollars ($$$)???
WoT
it's true???

>>738001951
Holy shit

>>737990572
Is she really a Vegan if she swallows? She is eating a potentially living being...

It's not murder if it's dark meat

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>>737989728