Why do you believe in God

>>736245662
I don't so I have no comment.

Religion has been a positive force in my life and denouncing it now would be unnecessary and painful.

>>736245734
Then don't fucking post insecure shit

>>736245662
religion is a gateway drug to statism.

>>736245868
Santa was a very positive force in my life. Accepting his non-existence was also painful, but necessary.

>>736245662
Why not?

>>736245662
Because it gives me a false inspiration to continue doing positive decisions in my life even if I know it might be fake

>>736245662
Because it's literally impossible for the universe have come to be the way it is simply by a series of cosmic accidents. And there's no way that life just started with a single cell that mutated into all life forms past and present. It makes no sense. Maybe the Bible isn't all that accurate but something had to create the matter and energy that exists.

religion is what holds back society

>>736246160
Agreed

>>736246122
>literally impossible
So do you know all possible scenarios that the universe could offer anon? That's mighty presumptuous of you.

>something had to create the matter and energy that exists

Keyword: Some"thing"

Of course "something" happened, but why do you jump to the conclusion that it was "someone"? It's unnecessary.

>>736246058
Because believing in a magical person who created us in his own image, sounds stupid as fuck.

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>>736245958

>>736246000
Bruh, if participating in the church of Santa made my life generally happier without any negative effects, I'd sure as shit do it. I'd do it without any regard for the potential negative that the church of Santa may have on the world too, as long as there are people I care about whose lives are enhanced by it.

>>736246000
kek

If god is real then what am I

God in the Christian sense is a bunch of bullshit for people that use their feelings to navigate their life because thought takes effort

>>736246707
Yea, but what if you supported legislation that made sure all roofs must be flat, to support the reindeer, which causes leaks for people in rainy cities? And made it mandatory for people to have chimneys, and you don't want one, nor can you afford it? What if the president passed legislation saying you had to keep milk and cookies in the house, and you're kids are diabetic?

How would the rest of us feel? What about when people start wars because half believe Santa gives them presents, but the other half know that the Easter Bunny is the one and only holiday mascot? How should the rest of us respond? If it's impossible to be elected into government, and are looked down upon and mistrusted if we don't believe in Santa, how should that make us feel?

Something can't come from nothing.

>>736247560
I've never examined "nothing" before. It's impossible to conceive. So I don't know how you know something can't come from it.

Even if it couldn't, does that mean that "something" has to be god? It very well could have come from something we just don't understand.

>>736247826
God/The Creator/The First/The Last. Same thing.

My answer is simple: I just want to.

>>736245734
But this is your comment

Once I stopped believing what I was raised to believe it's pretty much a question of why believe any of the Gods? I dunno.

>>736245868
So you don't believe in yourself?

>>736247997
But if something cant come from nothing God also cant.

>>736247997
So if it was just some natural force that we don't know of that was the "first cause", you'd still call it God?

Because if that's the case, God would just be a meaningless, loaded term.

>>736246574
Pretty much the highest logic available to sentient beings. AGREE!!!

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>>736245662
The sum of mans potential, while godlike, would still be of the nature of the universe. We could with technology transcend physicality, bend space, dimention, time and keep our genetic physical selves as a analog a passing phase and a template to go back to the drawing board as we digitize our perception of self. But we as we grasp the reins of all the universe and yell out to our steed our direction and attention to balance could doom us to die in our cradle of earth before we call ourself baby gods. Cause and effect is a cold, reasonable and absolute God. It does not care if it is belived. At best we can hope to be angels to our concept of the best aspect of our potential as humanity flings forward. After all if we fail the very concept of God we were never worth considering our place in this medium of cause and effect and entropy, and will return to the dust of a dead planet whose life will bloom over our empty bones, and forget all our potential we ate from ourselves in our greed.

God is real, we can only hope the god of man is relevant.

>>736247393
I'd advocate for the separation of church and state so stupid shit like that wouldn't happen. I'd at least do my part to try and prevent it, anyways. And I'd feel shitty about how religion paints politics, but I'd at least try and make sure the people I associate with know that's not okay and hope that attitude spreads.
As long as I and others I know are getting so much good out of it, and I do believe it does some good in the world at large, I'd rather try and remove the negative from religion than eradicate it entirely.
>How should the rest of us respond?
If religion is a negative thing in your life, you should oppose it. Religion without opposition would be a really unhealthy thing for the world, imo. Everything needs regulation, and it's too easy to control people with.
>how should that make us feel?
Shitty. I'm genuinely very sorry.
>>736248175
I've thought long and hard about it, and I've ultimately decided that whether or not I believe in God is not the most important factor in deciding whether or not I am going to keep participating in religion. If I have to answer, I'm actually going with no. But tune back tomorrow and I might change my mind so idk.

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Because I do, bbygurl.

It is kind of hard for me to say that I believe in or do not believe in "god."

I sure as shit don't believe in the idea of god that humans fabricated and created. Too many inconsistencies and outright BS claims involved with the idea of god and organized religions.

Outside of organized religion, "god" can refer to almost anything. God can be an idea. a philosophy, a metaphor, a state of mind, etc.

>>736246122
People like you are annoying. Just because science can't prove something, that is your justification that god did it. Just because science can't prove it, doesn't mean "god" did it. What if it was aliens? What if it was some giant cosmic machine? What if it is just a huge simulation? Just because science is ruled out, people like you automatically just assume and believe it was a "god" Honestly, there's nothing wrong with that, it just just something that annoys me.

>>736245868
Religion serves many both novel and relevant purposes, why hate? Im with ya on this one.

>>736245662
I am God and I believe in myself.

>>736245662
Nobody really believes in God anymore, people here who say they do are just trolls.

>>736249083
OUR LORD SAVIOR, WHY DID YOU CREATE US?????

>>736245662
Because it might believe in me.

But I'm an agnostic, leaning slightly deist, so I doubt it.

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>>736246707

Not OP, but I value objective truth over relationships with other humans. Probably a flaw in my character.

Also, when I decided I no longer believed in god, I could no longer attend church. I loveed my fucking church and the people in it. But by showing up, I felt like I was implicitly lying to them that I agreed with their philosophy, and I didn't have the heart to lie to those I loved.

>>736249084

There is a whole religion of about 1.6 billion people who believe in god, it's the same one that punishes you with death for apostasy.

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>>736248470
Hard truths hurt, and people brows 4chan to tickle their amygdala, chances of this post being ignored: pretty good.
Have some attention drawing tits.

>>736249224
I don't think that's a flaw at all. You're just a different person than I am. That strong commitment to your personal values is probably a virtue in other areas of life. It's just a different system of values. I'm completely fine with your decision.

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>>736245662
Bump.

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>>736245662
Did you post this to draw religious nuts away from another thread Op?

>>736250849
Nope, just wanted to here /b/'s answers

>>736251020
Whats your angle?

>>736245662
the only reason religion exists is to instill a sense of innate morality into mankind.

religion also has psychological benefits, such as confession.

Im not a follower because i have outgrown the need to confess my wrong doings, and was raised to respect everyone as I would like to be respected.

I feel that religion needs to exist for the youth, and that via progressing into adulthood you outgrow the "need" for it.

Roast me /b/rothers

>>736251357
GOD IS FAKE AS FUCK

>>736245662

Seen it

I don't. I believe the universe is an endless cycle of expansion and contraction. Alternate universes are merely the other forms of the universe as it was rebirthed.

>>736246707
>'d do it without any regard for the potential negative that the church of Santa may have on the world too,

I've never seen the problem with religious thought more perfectly encapsulated in one sentence than this. Congratulations on being the problem.

>>736246278
Peterson hasn't made me believe in god, but he has made me have a lot more respect for spirituality in general. There is value in the mythos.

>>736245662
I believe in something more abstract than a god. The "god" is simply an unwitting personification the true motivation for what we all are looking for: the "Why". "Why" the universe is like it is. "Why" we were born in these circumstances. "Why" anything is what it is.

Sure, we can attribute the nature and creation of the universe to the "why", but we really want to know what the "why" is.

>>736251716
Do you do right by cause and effect by being a relevently good person? Do you help facilitate a future for your species? Do you act on hope in place of faith?

>>736251918
You're welcome, anon.
I'm not saying I wouldn't try and mitigate it (I would and do), but I am saying I don't see what difference my own lack of participation would make. I am deliberately acknowledging that there are problems with my decision, namely that the thing I'm supporting does some bad. I just consider that less important than the good of my decision, namely that there's also a lot of good in there and I can be in a place to better minimize the bad.
I shop at Walmart, eat meat, and use proprietary software. I may as well go to church.

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>>736251716
Do you burn a calorie in a world where no god directs your hand to better a godless world Op?
Maybe plant a tree while we exchange hot air it could make the air pure by its existance while we polute it to no action?

>>736245662
>implying

Stop with your implying.

>>736245662
I don't
But if other people want to, fine by me
Don't shove that shit down my throat and I won't do the same to you, lets all just get along

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>>736251716
Maturity level at max caplock set to max: fullspeed ahead.

The Universe, with all of its matter and energy and physical laws was clearly created. Now if it's aliens, or a simulation, or whatever there's clearly a Creator. There's a creative force that exists outside of the universe. You can't deny it. Tell me where the super particle came from and why it exploded. Hurr durr then where did God come from? Hurr durr what happened one second before the Big Bang? Both are meaningless questions but neither precludes a Creator.

There is an overwhelming sense of order and harmony in the universe. Everything works together and has a purpose. Take out a force here or there and humanity wouldn't exist.

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>>736254866
>was clearly created

And what does a universe that wasn't created look like?

Your mind is small, child. And your understanding dim.

>>736255100

But something else could. Pointing out fish couldn't live in the sun doesn't mean the ocean was made for fish. It means they evolved to be well equipped for their environment, the sea.

>>736255162
I hear that a lot, but I haven't seen any plausible examples of alternative life.
Like life that exists as plasma if the universes laws were created for it in a more complex manner? These concepts are difficult to ascertain the truth of.

>>736255104
Something we have yet to perceive,but we know it happened

>>736254866
>The Universe, with all of its matter and energy and physical laws was clearly created.
what are you basing this incredibly large assumption on?

>>736254866
It's not clearly created. And saying so because it seems clear to you doesn't make it clear to the rest of us. I can deny it, and I am denying it. I don't have to know where the super particle came from, or why it exploded. If you can just imply a creator that always was, then I can just as easily imply exploding super particles that always were, or a multiverse that always was. Both would preclude a creator if true, but we don't know.

You can't just assume a "creator" by default, because that's what seems to jump out at you. You're just being retarded.

Nothing about the universe implies a creator the way it does to you. The entire black emptiness of space with nothing but chaos and random explosions and mayhem happening for seemingly infinite lightyears in all directions implies a creator? Some creation, isn't it? Where so far, life seems to be an extremely rare, tiny, brief, insignificant phenomenon happening on a spec of a planet in the middle of all this chaos, and you act like this must be some "mind" at work. Especially considering the fact we know how "minds" came into being from "brains", which evolved on this planet, which makes a creator even more implausible, and maybe a clue that religious idiots like yourself are projecting yourselves onto the universe.

>>736252856
>hurr durr I'm just one person, what difference does it make?
>everyone thinks that way
>nothing changes

Idiot.

>>736255742
The universe is teeming with potential life, life that we have yet to discover though. There are 3 billion planets in this galaxy alone that can support life, which is roughly 3%.

That may seem like a small percentage, but as far as we know the cosmological process is the most effective for producing life-sustaining planets. (IE: no one can come up with anything any better).

>>736255987

We don't have any proof there's any life beyond this shit mud ball. We're the first. The ancients. The progenitors of sentience in this and all worlds to come.

You can't claim something is teeming with something you've never found the first scrap of evidence of.

>>736252856
>there's also a lot of good in there
like what? if you need the bible to tell you to be a good, kind, and respectful person, and you couldn't figure that shit out on your own then you're kind of an idiot.

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>>736245662
The knowledge of "God's" existence is only given to beings who are worthy of knowing that it exists by "God" itself.

Beings who do not possess knowledge of "God's" existence have not been proven worthy of it (yet).

>>736245662
lol no, how can you believe something written 2000+ years ago by people who were drunk all of the time?

>>736256148
the presupposes the existence of a god, try again.

>>736245662
Met Him. Had a long talk about where my life was going. Got some good advice. We still keep in touch.

>>736255277
But our range of perception is small, like tiny. We could be swimming in the awsome, but not see it because it dosent make good synergy with our evolution. Why would we need to see ultraviolet or taste the photons of our sun. Because you cannot see it does not mean it is not there, also just because you belive it does not mean it is there. It is or isnt regardless of your opinion on it or its nature.

>humans think they can outsmart a god

many keks were had

>>736256527

> human thinks there's a god that needs outsmarting, and not a cold and indifferent universe that spans eternity in time and space in all directions around us

kek

>>736245662
I see broad evidence of an epidemic of shared delusions collectively known as "religion" or "God". While I haven't yet isolated the cause, I have recommended the CDC and psychiatric authorities investigate further, because it seems to be triggering people to commit heinous acts of violence in all corners of civilization.

It's like believing that HIV existed before we isolated it. We saw the horrible AIDS disease it caused.

>>736246000
This.

>>736255987
>3 billion planets that "can" support life
>Out of 3 trillion + planets in the milky way
>Teeming with potential life

Sure, there probably, no, almost definitely is life somewhere else out there. But it's still ridiculously rare and insignificant to the vast chaos we see in the universe. As a matter of fact, our life on this planet is part of that empty chaos, we just can't see it that way because we have an inclination that we're somehow special and have meaning. The universe is indifferent to our lives, or any other life out there.

None of this implies a creator. All it implies is human beings project their own minds onto the universe because they don't want to accept that everything is just matter in motion.

>>736246122
So there's a man sitting around for all eternity - trillions of years - that just decides to create something once in a while? I mean, billions of galaxies, all made of the same stuff... he got bored one day and made Earth different? And when we're gone, he's just gonna sit around for another trillion years and start over?

And there's hard proof for evolution. It happens daily. We can see it happening.

>>736247393
Ahkbar BUNNY!!!

>>736256527
God's more like, if you don't believe in me I'll just hurt you for disobeying me.

They laugh now, but there will be someone later who will be laughing louder than them.

>>736245662
It's hard to believe in something like a God when we have so many What Ifs in life. Hell, modern science even disproves it a couple of times. Sometimes, though, I think modern science is wrong. And sometimes the community around churches is pretty toxic tbh. But if you really want to see if there is a God, join a church mission trip group for a few days, even if it's ironically. Go somewhere impoverished, especially India. You see shit you would not believe is possible. You don't think demon possession is real, because neither do most people. But when you fucking see something it's undeniable. What you see and feel in groups who are truly *with God*, not some fake ass church congregation, you know the truth.

Existence of your God I can't deny
Nor accept in faith and live to die
But I respect I do not own any seed I may have sown
If it be it makes its own way as do I

>>736256306
Consider how unforgiving physicality is, and chances of the underlying God of the universe being cold as the physics of this world... well lets hope we spread into space so only groups of us kill ourselves off in our stupidity rather than snuff ourselves whole on this planet. Caught. Stuck in the womb of possibility a stunted embryo. Earth caught in humanitys shortsighted self destruction.

>>736256809
>God's more like, if you don't believe in me I'll just hurt you for disobeying me.

This is why we tacked that faggot up on a cross last time he showed his face.

We'll do it again the next time.

>>736256809
>if you don't believe in me I'll just hurt you for disobeying me
That's the same way a kid sees a parent's punishment boi

>>736246160
so, you dont believe, but pretend to...

>>736256940

kek

>>736256919
Wow, reverse search tells me this is original. What are saying?

>>736256999
Did your parents torture you for eternity in a lake of fire?

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>>736256287
We're all "gods" you silly human. It's just that our low rankings are preventing us from having any real power and in conjunction, are forcing us to physically exist on this tiny planet in the sense of a "prison" or "testing ground".

I believe in a God because of stupid people. Science says that only the smartest, strongest, and healthiest survive but there are so many dumb fucks not only living but thriving that only way such a thing could happen is if there was a Divide Being watching over them.

>>736256999

the only difference is that the kid can actually interact physically with his father

>>736254866
The symmetries hint more clearly at unifying physical principles we haven't yet uncovered more than at some sentient design. If this was a designed system, magical inconsistencies wouldn't have been a problem, they would have been a feature.

>>736257186
A poem called 'agnostic'

>>736257201
Maybe it's not about you kid, or what happens to you.

>>736257201

I think that's preferable to having the man you trust to uphold all that's good in the universe push himself inside you while telling you if you tell mommy he'll bludgeon her head in with a hammer and then fuck sissy too.

Stories tell of a god that is awful. People are still more awful.

>>736257267
Damn, I'm drunk. Divine Being...

>>736257267
Flawless logic.

Apply to Mensa immediately

>>736257267

You mean "a divine being laughing his ass off over them".

>>736257267
Or the sick breeding with the sick because no predators, food competition, and medicine that makes a man who would be yelling at a wall in anger a upstanding parental figure.

>>736256919
>>736257186
Not the guy that wrote it, but I assume it means:

>I can't disprove the existence of God
>But I don't believe it, and I'll just live my own life
>I understand I don't own you, or anyone
>So believe whatever you want

Things that make me believe in God:
>He's outside time and infinity is his playground
>Bibles got some serious knowledge in it
>Universe could have been his creation or simulation

Things that make me not believe in God:
>Where'd he come from?
>Why only show himself to a small group of people waaaay back before his clear message could be told to everyone? Pre-internet.
>Why does God need believers and worshipers?
>Why does God punish people for being the people he made? Gays for eg.
>Why not visit periodically to reinforce his omnipresence?
>thats all I can remember atm

>>736257219
that doesn't make any sense, but ok.

Agnosticism.

Allows you to answer any ecumenical question with the following response "I dont give a fuck"

>>736257636
thank you desu

>>736257481
I would except I fucked up and said Divide Being instead of Divine and missed a "the" in "the only way this could happen"

>>736255748
I'm also saying I'm acknowledging the bad it creates and I'm doing my best to fight it, which does a hell of a lot more than just distancing myself from it.
>>736256133
Oh, absolutely. But churches put together a lot of help for the less fortunate, you know? A lot of that happens without the church too, but I say support the community that's already present and working hard. And it gives a lot of people the hope they need to get through the day. Lots of people have found themselves in shitty places and have latched on to the church. If something happened that made everyone universally accept that God doesn't exist, right now, there would be a fuckton of depressed people committing suicide. And I'm not heartless enough to say that if God is the only thing keeping you from killing yourself, then you should probably do it.

>>736257636
Correct but the last line also implies that if God exists he created us to go our own way and would hold no claim to his creation.

>>736257643
To rule out the things that make you believe in God:

>He's outside time and infinity is his playground
Basically, that's saying he exists outside of existence. If you ask me, that means it doesn't exist.

>Bibles got some serious knowledge in it
There's literally nothing special in there that couldn't have been written by iron age scholars. Not just the bible, but any holy book.

>Universe could have been his creation or simulation
The universe could also be just a molecule in the eye of a giant cyclops named Steve. What's your point?

>>736257763
>But churches put together a lot of help for the less fortunate, you know?
that can be done without religion. what i'm saying is that if religion is the only that motivates someone to do good, they are actually an awful person because they're only doing so because of the implicit threat of hell.

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>>736248470
More tits to attract attention to post.

Because it's nice to believe I have a purpose to serve and an afterlife to look forward to even if both are just figments of my imagination. As long as I'm happy in my beliefs, that's enough for me.

>>736257921
Ah... If it be it makes its own way as do I.
"It" implies God, I didn't catch that. Thanks.

>>736245662

Because I believe in myself instead.

>>736245662
CONSCIOUSNESS
How the greater minds of insect-kind proves there's no such thing as counsciousness and sense of self.

>>736258163
Looking forward to going towards the white light at the end eh?

>white light be like 'sir, please move towards me in an orderly fasion thank you'
>black light be all like 'get your ass over here!'

>>736258262
It's the first time I have ever shared it. I wrote it a decade ago and just felt like posting it.

>>736257643
Attempting to answer your questions, I'm not God tho so answers might be off a bit

>Where'd he come from?
Well, SOMETHING'S always existed. Even with the Big Bang, the particles that caused it existed before it occurred. It didn't just appear. And even if it did I think it would be even harder to explain that. SO I think this question applies to everything and not just a God.
>Why only show himself to a small group of people waaaay back before his clear message could be told to everyone? Pre-internet.
Well I mean he didn't need the internet, he said what he wanted in the Bible and we still have it today, so I'd say that worked pretty effectively. Plus, any way that he chose to put it out it would still be hard for people to understand, I mean its the fucking guide to the universe it can't be simple.
>Why does God need believers and worshipers?
Well, he doesn't really need them to exist but if a perfect being would (not could) only do perfect things, wouldn't that mean that he would try to bring as many people to know the most perfect thing in the universe as possible? More is better.
>Why does God punish people for being the people he made? Gays for eg.
Really the Bible only says don't put it in a dude's butt, not don't be attracted to men. Interpret that how you will.
>Why not visit periodically to reinforce his omnipresence?
Well, I mean he did. Once. I guess that was enough? Also, there's the whole thing about "believing without seeing". He likes to be trusted, not proven.
>thats all I can remember atm
Hope I could help desu desu

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>>736247393
Humans kill each other over red and blue.
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all worship the same God but insist he demands different actions from each of us.

We will fight until we die.

Death IS the ultimate lesson.

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>>736257670
That's probably because you still think that "God" is supposed to be an old, white bearded, male with a white robe, sitting on some clouds behind golden gates with winged humans flying around him. You're still using 2000+ year old comprehension which makes you as bad as the people that took religions literally then.

>>736245662
I believe that our lives and even more so, our sentience, is far too unlikely without intervention by some kind of outside conscious force.

There are far too many factors that must be in place for us just to successfully exist and when you come across enough "just so happens" you have to begin to wonder if there was some sort of intent.

>>736258547
god is not real. you and i are not gods. why do you think we are so important?

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>>736258381

>>736258075
Also gonna respond to this
>Basically, that's saying he exists outside of existence. If you ask me, that means it doesn't exist.
Nah, not really. There's 32 possible dimensions, not a long shot to say he exists outside of that.
>There's literally nothing special in there that couldn't have been written by iron age scholars. Not just the bible, but any holy book.
Yeh, but the Bible predicted the future pretty well. You can make arguments calling bullshit on some of it but if you ask me its pretty consistent.
>The universe could also be just a molecule in the eye of a giant cyclops named Steve. What's your point?
He's just citing a possibility man, it doesnt have to be provable.

>>736245662
I don't, why would you assume that I did?

>>736258698
Don't quite get what does that have to do with my post... but ok?

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>>736258666
Is a single solder point is important in Google's super computers? If you've answered no, then I truly feel bad for you.

>I can't comprehend something so I choose to deny it (a.k.a. I'm scared).

>>736258633
You give a lot of weight to our 'sentience'

You are a programmed machine. You just happen to have developed a complex neural design. Still, you are just following your programming and responding to stimuli.

>>736245662
because science proves God exists

I do not believe in the idea of a creator of any type. No matter how you try and answer that question something had to come first. It just had to exist without reason. So why not the universe? there are many possibilities as to how we actually got here. And none of them are really important.

I do however believe that there is a possibility for beings to exist in a higher dimension than we do. While they would certainly appear godlike to our feeble understanding I do not believe that they would be what we refer to when we say "Gods".

Other than a more developed brain I have seen nothing that truly distinguishes us from the natural world like so many religions would claim. In fact even with our brains I've noticed many people still act primitively without even realizing it.

I honestly doubt humans would be able to process the truth of the beginning of the universe if they had witnessed it for themselves. Whats the point of trying to prove a point you'll never be able to understand?

>>736245662
Do you believe in yourself?
>Youranswer.png

>>736258977
We have evolved to be the only creature (that we know of) to not only exist but be able to question why we exist.

I simply don't believe that such a delicate ability is possible to thrive without intervention of some sort

>>736258938
what is there to comprehend? if you and i are gods, what are our god-like powers? why do gods necessarily need to exist? where is your evidence of our god-hood?

>>736259138
>Doyou.exe

>>736258633
This conclusion is only because you cannot begin to understand the scale of the universe, and we have yet to explore enough of it to say definitively we are the only life in the universe.

>>736245662
I don't. God is the middleman between understanding and doing. Unnecessary.

>>736259067
Haha, where? Science has shown lately that JC might be completely made up.

>>736259484
Not sure what you're talking about, almost all scientists agree that Jesus existed.

>>736259641
Not sure what you're talking about, almost all scientists agree that Jesus never existed.

>>736245662
because even though its silly, it makes my life a little more fun. like a good luck charm or a tradition. i don't care if it's not real, i don't use it as a deciding factor for enormous life choices, but i just..... like it.

>>736245662
>because it's part of my cultural heritage
>because it brings me comfort
>because it gives me hope in something beyond cold, calculating statistics.
nothing wrong with the latter, but positivism isn't a philosophy to live by.

>>736259305
Watch someone slowly die of alzheimers disease.

When you see the person fading like a corrupt computer you wonder how sentient we are. Questioning our purpose hopelessly could merely be a side effect of our evolution. We don't really do a good job of Questioning our existence which is why religion is quite popular. Our brains construct coping mechanisms to our over intelligence to help us continue to fuck, eat, shit, fight and sleep.

>>736259311
By the time what 60 generations ago left in the relm of gods you hold it is not magical. Imagine a time where interdimentinal travel is a hassle because you have to deal with residual radiation that makes ya itch, is just as blase' as you calling somone in paris from hawaii. Loss of wonder, time, technology.

>>736259405
I didn't say we were the only life in the universe
I am saying that a conscious power/force greater than our own was more than likely at work to create us.

I don't think that we are here from a series of millions of perfect accidents that just happened to happen

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>>736245662
High planar beings capable of wide creation is completely plausible! How dare you assume that it's just one!

>>736259728
blind positivism isn't, but the audacity to refuse being part of a cynical zeitgeist is, with moderation, a healthy mental habit.

not sticking your head in the dirt and pretending everything is magic and fine, but remaining in awe of this weird, finite condition of life is good.

>>736259704
sure bud

>>736259805
>honks on the crack pipe

>>736259426
But the concept can be the carrot that moves the horse and cart forward for enough people.

>>736259641
Ahhhaha. What? You get your AGW playbook mixed up with your God playbook?

>>736258769
>Nah, not really. There's 32 possible dimensions, not a long shot to say he exists outside of that.
He said that he's outside of time, and lives in infinity. Are you saying there could exist a non-temporal, infinite dimension? All dimensions need to be parallel to ours, don't they? That would be impossible, in that case.
>Yeh, but the Bible predicted the future pretty well. You can make arguments calling bullshit on some of it but if you ask me its pretty consistent.
The bible making "predictions" is one of the worst arguments I ever hear from religious people. Of course the book is gonna be consistent with itself. If there was a work of fiction, and you, or someone else made prophecies in chapter one, of course whoever writes chapter two is gonna make them come true. Like Paul or Peter would've just wrote, "And none of those things ever happened, The End." That's ridiculous.
>He's just citing a possibility man, it doesnt have to be provable.
He said it's a reason that makes him believe in God. The fact that it's not provable makes it not a good reason. That was the point of me making up another silly possibility, just as plausible.

>>736259333
At any given moment I can move my body around this 'physical realm' extremely effectively. Yes. I do.
Nice trips

>>736259997
It's just superstition. Why not just grow the carrot instead on making up a whole new magical being?

I'll tell you why: It's easier to "just believe".

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>>736259311
You're still thinking like a 2000+ year old human. Erase all understanding of the word "god" and replace it with "consciousness" or something alike. Our power is the ability to create just like how we were created and how we will create. Now when consciousness works together, it creates stuff like society. Now apply that concept into an infinite amount of layers. One of those layers is our universe.

>>736259805
you've read too much Asimov.

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>>736259976

>>736259405
I brought up life on other planets because if life has developed on other planets but has died off due to different circumstances, or even if it still exists. It is proof of either the same process has happened and either worked or not depending on the circumstances, Or an all knowing all powerful god put life there and failed.The only reason you think it was a bunch of perfect accidents is because you are looking at it from the perspective of being a life form on your planet evolved to adapt to your surrounding. Take a step back and look at all the times life has failed and perhaps there is a different perspective.

>>736245662
There is no real conclusive evidence to support or deny the existence of a creator, so what does it matter anyway?

>>736259878
I brought up life on other planets because if life has developed on other planets but has died off due to different circumstances, or even if it still exists. It is proof of either the same process has happened and either worked or not depending on the circumstances, Or an all knowing all powerful god put life there and failed.The only reason you think it was a bunch of perfect accidents is because you are looking at it from the perspective of being a life form on your planet evolved to adapt to your surrounding. Take a step back and look at all the times life has failed and perhaps there is a different perspective.

>>736260357
that's just replacing religion with some hippie bullshit. more nonsense that can't be proven.

>>736260516
no evidence for a creator means we must conclude that a creator does not exist, until proven otherwise.

>>736258103
>that can be done without religion
I acknowledged that. It's still nice that the church is an existing community that supports it. In turn, I'd like to support the church.
>the rest
That's what my "absolutely" referred to. Can't agree more. When I said the church does a lot of good, I definitely didn't mean that people are good because they go to church. That's retarded. You should do good because the world would be a shitty place otherwise, not because you think a wizard will smite you otherwise.

>>736260529
Wha... Why god though? Why not just leave it as a billion simultaneous experiments that nature runs at once, constantly? Why put god in the the middle?

>>736260088
Just to clarify, I assume God is outside of time (in infinity), because he would have to be to be God. If God was subjected to time, that would mean he didn't exist before time and that he will not exist after there is no more time. It says he's the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end in the bible which makes me wonder if the people who wrote the bible had the concept of infinity as something that could start and end, which would be wrong.
TLDR: If God is God, he's outside of time because a God in a dimension with time has a creation event and possible death event too.

-

The predictions in the bible show the rise and colapse of civilizations. It's true great thinkers and people devoted to collecting past knowledge from others could also prophecy this but that's quite a feat for the time period involved.

-

I say God could have created the earth.sim or it might just have created itself somehow, I don't think we'll ever know unless CERN discovers some wormhole universe particle or some Outer Limits SciFi shit.

>>736258769
>>736258075
>>736258485
Thanks for replying

>>736245662
Cause if he doesn't half my swear words are meaningless

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>>736260532
Welp I guess you'll just have to wait and find out when you die then. Because I can't see "God" directly trying to help you during your current lifetime.

However, have a message from "God" itself courtesy of me: Treat others how you want to be treated and you'll be guaranteed eternality.

>>736260940
Why are you stretching to make him exist? Why not make up this shit and just accept that he doesn't exist?

>>736260283
As long as the horse is moving in the right direction the driver dosent care its self dialog.

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>>736246000
> Christians shouldn't Christian because Santa
Do you even realize how completely stupid of an argument this is? Obviously a fat man isn't going to magically break dozens of laws of physics to give kids bikes. However, trying to say that the universe was spawned from absolute nothingness is also ignorant, especially when you consider the chances of a FUNCTIONAL universe being created. Any slightly tweak in the laws of physics (such as gravity, the way that radiation works, light, etc...) would absolutely destabilize all of creation as we know it. And that miniscule probability is only the first of millions that had to be perfect in order for ANYTHING to exist, much less complex, sentient, carbon based life, organisms that rely on each other to function (ecosystems), or any other of the multitudinous and fascinating things here on Earth. Laws such as entropy lay out perfectly the need for something to have designed the Universe, as this is something that could not have happened over any span of time in any eternity. Matter is not born from nothingness.

>>736261215

Because I am not as smart as I think I am. Maybe by debating it I'll figure it out and come to a better understanding. There might be something not-so-obvious that I'm missing or overlooking.

>>736261147
when you die it will be just like before you were born, nothingness. oblivion. a void without time or space or dimensions. what makes you so sure of 'eternality?' which isn't a word,btw.

>>736261147
Why do you believe in god only? By your logic, it's "you can't prove he doesn't exist, therefore he exists". There's surely a lot of other "beings" you should be consulting.

>>736261455
I was just thinking this. Did you come from a lake of hellfire or a cloud-palace of pleasure before you were born? Don't remember? Then what's the point?

>>736261371
>Matter is not born from nothingness.
why not? christians believe a dude walked on water and wiped spit in a blind guy's eyes and cured him, so why can't matter spontaneously spring into being?

>>736261371
>Matter is not born from nothingness.

That's not exactly true. Recent tests at CERN show that particles can and often do just appear and disappear for no reason.

>>736258400
Checked and keked

>>736261641
That's different anon. That's what Einstein referred to as "spooky behavior". We can see it happening, and we have a little understanding, and we can recreate it, we just don't know what's really going on though.

Oh yeah, god created those particles while we were looking for them, and then got distracted and they disappeared.

Trying to convince a religous person there is no god is about as hard as increasing their double digit IQ. /thread

>>736258485
Holy shit, you're stupid as hell.

>>736260940
>I assume God is outside of time (in infinity), because he would have to be to be God.
I understand that. What I'm saying is that it then follows that he does not exist. Time is absolutely necessary to facilitate existence. I can prove it with a simple question:

What does it mean for something to exist for zero seconds?

It means that it doesn't exist. To exist outside of time is to not exist.

>The predictions in the bible show the rise and colapse of civilizations. It's true great thinkers and people devoted to collecting past knowledge from others could also prophecy this but that's quite a feat for the time period involved.
My objection still stands. Some "prophecies" were just "said" to have been fulfilled, and the others were extremely vague, or could have just been written after the fact.

>I say God could have created the earth.sim or it might just have created itself somehow, I don't think we'll ever know unless CERN discovers some wormhole universe particle or some Outer Limits SciFi shit.
"could have". You're not giving any reasons, you're stating a blind possibility, just like I did. That's not a good reason to believe anything.

>>736246000
/thread + trips

>>736261879

Yeah so you need to accept that theres still a lot about the universe we don't know. For all we know, in an absolute nothingness, every single time, a big bang will always occur spawning countless bubble universes ever expanding into each other until they fade away into nothingness once again.

i don't because i'm not retarded

>>736261932
>What does it mean for something to exist for zero seconds?
>It means that it doesn't exist. To exist outside of time is to not exist.

This is worthy of pondering. You make valid points.

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>>736261455
I actually had to look up the word when I received the message myself. I guess that's how telepathic communication works sometimes.

Also our current, low-quality biological makeup doesn't allow us to access information from our existence before birth. You can blame that on the species that created our species.

>>736261468
When I say "God" it is like when someone says "The Internet told me that." Is the Internet just one thing? No, it's a whole lot of things that makes up the Internet.

>>736262158
>absolute nothingness
No such thing

But, hell yes I accept that we don't know everything. That's why people keep looking towards the stars and through microscopes. If we all just sat down and stared at bibles all day, we'd still be curing trichinosis by bloodletting 6 flaming pigeons or whatever.

>>736261371
>absolutely destabilize all of creation as we know it
>as we know it

That's what religious people can never get their minds across. They assume somehow, that human beings are somehow the "end goal" of all of this chaos. We're not. And if any of those other laws or forces were "tweaked", like you said, then yes, life "as we know it" wouldn't exist. But other shit still would have. There may have been a completely different type of "life" that evolved, or didn't evolve. Or something that could have existed some other way that we couldn't know because we can't imaging any possible worlds other than our own very well.

Then those "life forms" would be having the exact same fucking argument we're having. We're standing at the top of a giant wall and kicked the ladder out from under us and say, wow, how did we get here? You're thinking about this backwards. Like I said, we're not the "end goal" and the universe didn't have us in mind. We are a "result" of the universe being a certain way, and if it were a different way, it would have been a different result.

>>736245662
Because it's the only thing that answers WHY.
Science always starts with a WHY question and only ever answers HOW.
For example "WHY do these two rocks stick together?"
Science:"This is HOW magnetism works" but it NEVER answers why it is that way to begin with.
The closest it ever comes is "because without electromagnetic forces nothing would work" but still doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.

>>736262320
>telepathic communication
any more new age hippie bullshit you want to drop on us?

>>736262320
>The Internet
So... you listen to many/all gods? Isn't that against each god's command?

>>736261932
>What does it mean for something to exist for zero seconds?

Fuck that's good. Any time a believer tells me God exists outside of time, I'm using this.

>>736249084
>>736245662
It's been intimately revealed to me, but basically fuck you.

>>736262500
So you answer all these "whys" with "god makes it so"? That's just lazy.

Seen the devil, therefore God exist

>>736262500
clearly you don't understand how science works. the 'why' for your example is because the fundamental laws of nature (electromagnetism) dictate that those two rocks have certain properties that cause them to stick together.

>>736262500
Spotted the juggalo

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>>736262440
6 flaming pigeon* kek*

>>736262886
No, it's stupid.

>>736262314
Not really. Does an author not exist because he exists outside time from the characters point of view?
Of course not. And so it is with God.

>>736262500
dude, a crystaline structure that has it's atoms arranged in a polar fashion will attract the opposite. it's like youre saying, i don't know why electricity works, so muh god.

Hypotheses don't fail

>>736262500
Go to bed Violent J, you don't make any sense and your music sucks.

>>736263038
You kek, but it's in the bible. Don't remember if it was for trichinosis though. Some shit was fixed by taking a week-long journey and returning with 6 flaming birds to bleed on the infected.

>>736245662
Because just as the bible hasn't been proven nor disproven by science, yuor silly scienec hasnt been provenor disproevn by religino. Tehrefoer scienc eis fake. Chekc maet athiests.

>>736263121
Ah thanks you just saved me hours of pondering. That's why I frequent these topics, so many different perspectives.

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>>736262621
Everyone can communicate telepathically (except with another human because once again our biological make up is low quality) but it's a matter of whether you accept it in or block it out. We're always communicated with but the majority doesn't communicate back simply because they don't know when they're being communicated with.

>>736262661
When did I ever say I was religious?

>>736263121
No, dummy, the author exists, the characters don't. They don't actually have a real point of view.
What kind of retarded analogy is that?

>>736263395
disproven. like, right now. all the time.

>>736262913
Sigh. That's another HOW answer.
I want to know WHY the fundamental laws of nature are the way they are. I don't need you to explain to me how those dictate electromagnetism. I already know that. I want to know why they are that way

>>736263402
See
>>736263471
Don't fall for it, it's a bad analogy, it doesn't work at all.

>>736263456
citation needed

>>736263384
I dunno would the antibodies in a stressed birds blood help the immediate infection then irritate the flesh to reject both the foreign blood and infection. Maybe it would work?

>>736263384
If you were away for six weeks you would be out away from comunicating the desease.

>>736263647
Because when certain minerals flow in a molten state from the Earth's mantle, they cool in the Earth's magnetic field. We understand this fully, therefore can make our own. Fuck.

>>736263648
Actually it is a very well know analogy that is widely accepted within both the scientific and philosophical communities and works perfectly.
Just because you say "doesn't work" doesn't mean that's true.

>>736263797
Eh, I guess it couldn't hurt.

>>736261371
>taking a joke this seriously
christians never fail to impress
btw, jesus is illegitimate, read the old testament, the messiah hasn't arrived yet

>>736263976
Not anon, but that is a horseshit analogy and you obviously have subscribed to Fag Science Weekly.

>>736263937
Thank you for explaining HOW that works. Now explain WHY it can't be any other way.

>>736263647
you still misunderstand what the goal of science is. science describes the nature of things. the more information we have, the better we can explain the 'whys.' for example, why is the sky blue? rayleigh scattering. you are splitting hairs between the 'why' and 'how' of the way things work. in other words, they don't think it be like it is, but it do.

>>736264231
it MUST be god, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

>>736264137
>don't understand
Horseshit
Fag
Hurr durr

>>736264231
The fuck? We have four fundamental laws in the universe. We don't fully understand them, which is why they are trying to develop a Unified Field Theory instead of a 67th book to the bible. Dude, this really doesn't involve god?

God made me just the way I am, a non-believer.

>>736264347
Exactly the point. A system cannot prove or disprove itself. Therefore science can, by its very nature, neither prove or disprove reality and the existence of God since Science is essentially the study of reality.

The problem of abiogenesis, which is what changed Antony Flew's mind, a renowned atheist.

Firstly, to get the constituents of RNA it seems you need exotic chemicals, which already makes life unlikely, how much we can not tell.

Secondly, there is the problem of chirality, which the solving of would require some kind of process that has gone undiscovered for the past 40 years.

You can say the science is young, but from my perspective it looks unlikely that we will ever find this mysterious origin and it did indeed require the intervention of God.

>>736264231
Why do you insist that god does this? How do you know that south american caterpillars don't emit a pheromone that causes magnetism? So do you believe in caterpillar? Why not? Makes more sense than god.

>>736264549
>involve god?
didn't intend the question mark

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>>736264678

>>736264549
I want to know why the fundamental laws are there to begin with. Even with a unified theory it would still not explain why it has to be that way. See >>736264701

>>736264762
>>736264361
not having an answer doesnt mean god, not to mention that we can then go down the rabbit hole of 'how did god get there' and your stuck in the same situation of saying 'i don't know,' at which point it's appropriate to bring up occams razor - your theory has the most assumptions, so is the least likely

>>736264924
It was God's will that you put it there though.

>>736263976
It doesn't work in the slightest.

Of course the author exists in that scenario, he's the one that is in time. The characters in his book don't have a point of view at all. They don't have a concept of time, they don't have a concept of the author, they don't even exist at all. They're ink on paper that some guy wrote.

You're just switching it around, making God outside of time seem possible by equating him to an author inside of time. It's a cheap trick.

If you're gonna apply that analogy to our relationship with God, that would mean we don't exist. One of use would have to not exist, because one of us is outside of time in both scenarios. That's the point, nothing exists outside of time. We exist, and God doesn't because we're in time and God isn't. The author exists, but the character's don't, because the author is in time and the character's aren't.

You're analogy is just a fake attempt to switch the roles between who is in time and who isn't, to make it seem like something can exist outside of time.
My analogy still stands.

>>736264701
therefore, because there is no evidence for the existence of god, we must conclude that god does not exist, until presented with evidence to the contrary.

>>736264951
God has nothing to do with that, anon. At all. Look at this guy: >>736264361

>>736265122
*My argument still stands, rather

>>736264951
come back when you understand what the unifed theory is, because it would do exactly what you say it wouldn't.

>>736265366
I wonder what will happen when they actually find the "god particle" and learn how to use it. Does that prove god or science?

>>736265122
1 you have no basis to imply we are the ones existing instead of the other way around. Merely your preference, it can very easily be the other way but it sounds like that idea makes you profoundly uncomfortable
2 This analogy shows that god is the author and is his characters. We exist in the mind of God just as the characters exist in the mind of the author.
3 This is such a basic and widespread analogy accepted by so many schools of philosophical thought the very fact you believe it doesn't work betrays that you have never had even the most rudimentary philosophical training.

>>736265009
How long will you wait for an answer?
Another century? A Millennium?

I've already given up hope.

So drop me some wisdom.

Why the hate against fapping? I get the whole seed spilled on ground thing but for real?

And what about girlfapping?

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>>736245662
For a long time I have (Like everyone else) been searching for a shred of evidence that the afterlife exists. I've been a Christian. Baptized. But science argues with it. I can't stand the idiotic belief, that evolution does not exist. That women should follow men. Global warming isn't real. Gays are going to hell. On and on. So I began to think "if God does not exist, what is consciousness?" The only reason anyone does not deviate from religion is the fear of damnation. If you ask me (and you didn't but I'll tell you anyway) there is no reason to fear death. No matter what there will always be life after life. Whether the Christian's are right or the Jews, or anything. If science prevails, with any luck the molecules that make up your brain will once again make up a living brain and you will be conscious once more.

>>736265738
i think you misinterpreted what i said; i'm an atheist, not a christian

>>736265648
it's only nicknamed the 'god particle' because it would be a key component in the unified theory. it has nothing to do with a deity.

>>736265805
So... reincarnation

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>>736265648
https://www.google.com/amp/www.theblaze.com/news/2014/02/18/the-god-particle-explained-in-two-minutes-by-the-man-who-discovered-it/amp/

>>736265991
Exactly. Any way you look at it. One of these answers has got to be correct.

>>736265805
Do you remember what you were a thousand years ago?

Also, global warming is 100% false.

>>736265952
I know this, I just wonder what a theists take on it would be.

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>>736266230
Man, get a load of this idiot. You're only telling yourself that because you are afraid of what will be. Denial before acceptance.

>>736265805
I used to follow the technological singularity.

A climax of neurology, AI, and nanotechnology, turning the entire universe into itself.

It's a quaint idea but still depends upon the laws of physics or what not to be attainable.