Political compass thread. GO!

>>735023519

Authoritarian left and right should be purged. Fucking conservatard and SJW FAGGOTS.

>>735023607
I actually despise SJWs myself. And I voted for trump.

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>>735023519
Different test, but should give the idea.

>>735023808

Well SJWs drove a lot of people to vote for Trump even people traditionally on the left. You can be on the right or on the left as long as you're truly libertarian and not that faux social darwinist pro-corporate libertarian.

>>735023886
>progress

>>735023954
Actually, according to the 8values test, i'm left wing populist. I always thought I would be right wing, however.

>>735023519
little bit right
lotta bit down

too lazy to retake
ron paul 2020

>>735024077
Yes?

>>735024096

Nice. It's probably just your disgust for SJWs that made you think you were right wing. When I was a kid I hated the shit out of Lisa Simpson and her authoritarian Left values. Then I later realized I wasn't right wing, I just hated that branch of leftism.

>>735024364
oh. That seems a bit strange to witness for others, I guess?

>>735024364
>It's probably just your disgust for SJWs that made you think you were right wing
This and the fact that people are tricked into thinking Dems are left wing.

>>735024668

>Authoritarian Left labeled as liberal
>Don't believe in basic liberal values like free speech

OP here, this is my 8values result.
https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=51.2&d=37.2&g=36.2&s=70.8

>>735023886

Other than internationalist, this looks pretty good.

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People can have different opinions, but if you're not somewhere in this box, there's something legitimately wrong with you.

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>>735024815
It's even funnier when you realize that classical liberalism would be down towards the bottom of the blue box.

>>735025063

I agree. Strive to be within that box anons.

>>735023886
>communist libertarian

This has to be bait right? No one can honestly believe this shit would work. The only way it would is if everyone starts living in communes. Which means everyone's standard of living will go down. Communism is inherently authoritarian, you cannot make everyone in a society want to give their property to everyone else. To accomplish this you need force.

Basically we'd all be living in fucking villages, assuming we didn't all starve first.

>>735025063
what's wrong with a little authority?

>>735025209
It's more in the top right of the green

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>>735023886

>>735025363
classical liberalism is bottom right you retard

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>>735025127

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>>735025063

>>735025495

Yikes...

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>>735023519

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This site is pretty good, better than the standard 2 dimensional one imo.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/billykangas/2014/11/5-dimensional.html

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>>735025589

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>>735025303
I believe that the the rise of automation will make employment as we traditional envision it obsolete within the next few decades, and that the big choice is whether we leave most of the population to live in squalor/die so the super wealthy can get even richer for doing even less or come up with a way to distribute things fairly, since robots will be doing 90% of the work anyway.

Obviously I've chosen to support the second path.

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>>735025894
Bu- but some of that wealth might get distributed to niggers and feminists!

>>735025634
mah nigga

>>735025973
I'm >>735026277 And I like guns, I just think some reforms are in order.

>>735026277
>>735025634

Fuck yeah. Nice graphs fellas.

>>735025973
OP here, I do think that we should have guns legalized.

>>735025973
Lies, green square's cool with guns too. Gotta have something to kill fascists with.

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>>735025681
Definitely better than the 8values quiz

>>735026377
>>735026543
>shall not be infringed

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>>735023519
If youre not on the right youre a faggot

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howdy comrades

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>>735023886

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>>735023519

>>735026645
where's the soviet GDP now?
have fun with krokodil you slavs

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>>735023886
You are actual cancer

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>>735026377
haha I'm botton left corner and am a gun owner. Too many liberals who were radicalized never changed opinion on guns. Though many just support reform and not abolishment.

>>735026771
>>735026773
disgusting

>>735026771
damn were similar
>>735026834
>babby cant handle differing opinions

>>735025063
Hell yeah dude

>>735025894

That shit won't happen in our lifetime. We may start to have some major shifts in our economy because of increased automation. Specifically, self driving cars. The technology is already developed enough to work like 97% of the time, the problem is all the different scenarios that need to be accounted for in that 3%. That shit will be hard, but probably possible in the next decade or so, with widespread adoption starting in the next decade after.

Now, something I think people seem to discount is the need for more that humans have. I'm pretty confident that we'll find some other way to occupy our time and people will figure out shit to do with their lives.

Maybe, someday, when we're already dead your utopia might come to be. Assuming we overcome human nature by that point, or the robots will rise up against us, as we become the oppressors and they the oppressed.

>>735026902
i can handle it fine. just wasnt sure if someone reminded you today is all

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>>735026819
>>735026834
u mad porky?

>>735026277
Play me on Clash Nigga

>>735026817
Have fun with heroin, prescription painkillers, fentanyl, crack cocaine, and methamphetamine, fucking capitalist pig.

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>>735026866

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>>735026819
It's OK buddy, you can still have your tendies after we've seized the means of production at the chicken plant.

>>735023808
If you voted for Trump you should be shot tbh.

>>735026771

That's considered communist? Seems pretty well balanced compared to this one which is practically full blown communist. >>735023886

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>>735024197
>ron paul 2020

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>>735026718
Holy shit dude were exactly the same lmao

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Kind of surprised by my outcome

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>>It was the first time that I had ever been in a town where the working class was in the saddle... every wall was scrawled with the hammer and sickle... every church had been gutted... every shop and cafe had an inscription saying it had been collectivised... Waiters and shop-walkers looked you in the eye and treated you as an equal. Nobody said 'Senor' or 'Don'; everyone called everyone else 'comrade' or 'thou'.... Almost my first experience was receiving a lecture from a hotel manager for trying to tip a lift-boy. Down the Ramblas... the loudspeakers were bellowing revolutionary songs all day and far into the night."

>>735027349
Haha XD

>>735027285
"The goal of socialism is communism" compadre

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>>735023519

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>“I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all.”

>"“The desire to grow rich at all costs, the taste for business, the passion for gain, the pursuit of comfort and material enjoyment are thus the most common preoccupations in despotisms.”

>"Those who praise freedom only for the material benefits it offers have never kept it long.”

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Google Bookchin

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>>735023519
Didn't expect to get this tbh. I'm slowly getting closer and closer to hitler

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>>735025973
im about as far in the bottom left as you can be, and i think guns are the mightiest of tools. anarchy functions best with everyone well armed and in control of their own place.
anyone who trusts in governments or authorities in 2017 is insane.

>>735027350
That's basically mine too, though less nationalist and more civil liberties. Too lazy to take it again and didn't save the result.

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No step on snek

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>“There are no hierarchies in nature other than those imposed by hierarchical modes of human thought, but rather differences merely in function between and within living things.”

>"Unless we realize that the present market society, structured around the brutally competitive imperative of “grow or die,” is a thoroughly impersonal, self-operating mechanism, we will falsely tend to blame technology as such or population growth as such for environmental problems. We will ignore their root causes, such as trade for profit, industrial expansion, and the identification of “progress” with corporate self-interest. In short, we will tend to focus on the symptoms of a grim social pathology rather than on the pathology itself, and our efforts will be directed toward limited goals whose attainment is more cosmetic than curative.”

>“Any attempt to solve the ecological crisis within a bourgeois framework must be dismissed as chimerical. Capitalism is inherently anti-ecological. Competition and accumulation constitute its very law of life, a law … summarised in the phrase, ‘production for the sake of production.’ Anything, however hallowed or rare, ‘has its price’ and is fair game for the marketplace. In a society of this kind, nature is necessarily treated as a mere resource to be plundered and exploited. The destruction of the natural world, far being the result of mere hubristic blunders, follows inexorably from the very logic of capitalist production.”

>The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
-Anatole France

>>735027842
Just don't become a vegetarian; or do, I don't know what your goals are.

>>735027842
same here. was a registered dem until 2013. now i get this result>>735025495

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>>735027885

>>735026155
>some
>might

I land dead center all the time. I think the it's missing a 3rd axis measuring all the fucks I give

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>>735025973
Are you retarded? The Communist Manifesto literally says "every member of the working class should have arms and ammunition. Any attempt to disarm them should be met with violent opposition."

Also, weed is alright.

>>735026708
Go get a musket then

The "shall not be infringed" shit is bullshit. I guess we should allow private billionaires to have nuclear weapons right?

At the very list, permits exist for exploseives and fully automatic rifle caliber weapons. Which in all honesty would be far more necessary for the defense of tyranny than a fucking glock and nugget bolt action.

Certain people should not have the right to defend themselves if they can be proven to be a risk to infringe on the rights of others (such as the right to not have holes in my chest just because I went to the mall that day). Nothing wrong with better background checks. Just like there is nothing wrong with open and conceal carry if someone is educated about gun safety and has a clean record.

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>“I am opposing a social order in which it is possible for one man who does absolutely nothing that is useful to amass a fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars, while millions of men and women who work all the days of their lives secure barely enough for a wretched existence.”

>“In every age it has been the tyrant, the oppressor and the exploiter who has wrapped himself in the cloak of patriotism, or religion, or both to deceive and overawe the People."

> “I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.”

> “Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.”

>>735027916
>“There are no hierarchies in nature other than those imposed by hierarchical modes of human thought, but rather differences merely in function between and within living things.”

This is demonstrably false. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689943/

Reproductive success absolutely institutes a hierarchy. Those are some of the most ludicrous quotes I've ever read.

>>735028080
Soon enough, not taking female hormones will be seen as "edgy" by the low test. lefties.

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> “As societies grow decadent, the language grows decadent, too. Words are used to disguise, not to illuminate, action: you liberate a city by destroying it. Words are to confuse, so that at election time people will solemnly vote against their own interests.”

> “The genius of our ruling class is that it has kept a majority of the people from ever questioning the inequity of a system where most people drudge along paying heavy taxes for which they get nothing in return.”

> “Ayn Rand's 'philosophy' is nearly perfect in its immorality, which makes the size of her audience all the more ominous and symptomatic as we enter a curious new phase in our society.... To justify and extol human greed and egotism is to my mind not only immoral, but evil.”

> “The American press exists for one purpose only, and that is to convince Americans that they are living in the greatest and most envied country in the history of the world. The Press tells the American people how awful every other country is and how wonderful the United States is and how evil communism is and how happy they should be to have freedom to buy seven different sorts of detergent.”

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>>735027474
did i literally just read this exchange

>>735024815
i think its a joke

>>735027529
and the goal of capitalism is socialism

don't be a dumbass that misinterprets historical materialism and the inevitable advance of automation

marx was certainly influenced by what he saw in the factories and sweat shops, but the entire point is that eventual communism is not only moral it's basically inevitable

>>735024077
xD most underrated comment

>>735026718
>>735027474
>>735027349
Reddit

>>735026718
>>735027349
>>735027474
Reddit.

>>735028271
that's where the
>differences merely in function between and within living things
comes in, you dunce.

And hierarchy in terms of what? In terms of who can most reliably reproduce and continue the species--not any ideological hierarchical structure, it's merely for function and survival.

>>735028499
It's just a lenin quote bro, calm down

>>735028396
wats wrong with a little man on man

Whoops this thread is now full of conservatards and SJW commies. Time to abandon thread.

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>>735028163
>private billionaires to have nuclear weapons
the face you make when you're worth billions and are in control of the two largest nuclear weapons caches in the world.

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>Guns and weed
>mfw the optimal position

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>>735028765
SJWs get the gulag too, don't worry

I just wanted a fun little 4chan thread. It devolved into heated debate. I don't give a shit, though! This is fun!

>>735028163
>People who founded a country had no concept of technology or the progress of time.

Go fuck yourself.

Nuclear weapons aren't considered "arms" they are Weapons of Mass Destruction.

People don't have to match the military's firepower to win against a tyrannical government. A government needs people to legitimize it, if you start killing your own citizens en masse, it typically won't turn out too well for you as a leader.

Also, you can make explosives from pretty normal, run of the mill shit. How the fuck are you going to stop a pressure cooker bomb? Aluminum foil and toilet bowl cleaner would cause a reaction that could potentially make a pressure cooker explode. Will I only be able to buy a single sheet of aluminum foil, or use of toilet bowl cleaner, at a time?

Seriously, get your head out of your ass.

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>“The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them.”

>“The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his 'natural superiors,' and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, callous 'cash payment.' It has drowned the most heavenly ecstasies of religious fervor, of chivalrous enthusiasm, of philistine sentimentalism, in the icy water of egotistical calculation. It has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom—Free Trade. In one word, for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation"

>>735025894
This is a very possible outcome for the future, which is why i like seeing studies being done about how an even distribution of wealth affects societies. But to want to implement anything like that now is jumping the gun dont you think?

>>735028163
>fully automatic rifle caliber weapons
Fuck off no guns. Stop talking out your ass faggot

>>735029069
Well I don't wanna jump in with both feet, but if you wait until you absolutely need to to start this sorta thing it's gonna get messy.

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>>735029060
>has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom—Free Trade.

when people want to economize on their value and are poor

Hell yea fight the power muh surplus value

When the people who economize are "robber barons(read: successful)"

OMG OPPRESHUN CAPITALIST PIG HOW DARE YOU MAKE JOBS

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This is where I stand.

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>>735029596

>>735029675
She's a fucking cunt but she's not wrong

Don't have an image, but 5 to the right and one down

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>>735029734
She probably could've been a successful marxist had she gone down a different road

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i'm not an anarchist in case you're wondering, i believe in government but am taoist as hell.

OP here, WEEEWEWEWEWWWWW, LADS, what have I wrought!?

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>>735029874
>implying employee owners can't mutually hold stake in a firm under capitalism

>>735030045
Shut the fuck up that post was cringey

>>735030376
that was the point.

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>>735027350
Yeah I around the same I think this test might be a meme

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>>735027885

>>735023607
Everyone has no one but themselves to blame. You squelch Ron Paul for 8 more years of aggressive liberalism, welfare expansion, increased spending and you end up with Trump.

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>>735027885
Apparently I'm pretty center

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>>735031095

>>735025894
Yes, you're right about that. But to have communism before every facet of life and human need is automated? That just means someone is doing all the work while someone else is getting a free ride.

>>735023954
>social darwinist pro-corporate libertarian.
Which is entirely what the American libertarian movement is all about.
Liberal libertarians have no party or place in American politics.

>>735023519
I am a ClA n¡gger

>>735031437
> That just means someone is doing all the work while someone else is getting a free ride.
If you don't work, you don't eat. Free-rider problem solved

>>735031556
It's spelled nigger

N I G G E R

>>735031563
>If you don't work, you don't eat. Free-rider problem solved
sounds like capitalism

>>735031741
Except capitalist workers are never actually rewarded for their work, and their efforts are for the sake of their bosses, not themselves or their brethren

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>>735031741
>being this retard

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>>735031938
So....why do they work?

>>735032055
It's their only option. Not to mention how brainwashed America is with the whole "with hard work, you too can abuse your employees" / "dog eat dog" nonsense.

>>735032313
>only option
So they can't choose to work elsewhere? Wouldn't jobs with better conditions and more pay attract workers over firms that didn't?

>>735032475
Let's take your average miserable American worker
>40+ hour week, two jobs (walmart + janitor)
>Minimum wage
>Supporting family of four
>No college degree
Where are they to work? What jobs with better conditions are you referring to?

Firms don't give their workers better positions in order to gain a wider profit margin. Firms who want to can't in order to stay competitive, and, of course, for a higher profit margin.

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>>735031486

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>>735032794
>four kids
>no college education

First off how is being a retard a market failure?

Second, literally anywhere. He does a great job at Walmart? Hey look at that Costco is hiring for $3 over minimum wage.

But wait, the labor laws in the United States are causing Walmart and Costco to hire half the staff they would because the govt artificially doubles the cost of labor. Taxes, mandatory insurance, etc.

But no yea, totally a market failure.

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thoughts?

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/b/ is so much more intelligent than /pol/

>>735023886
holy fuck you're a literal nigger

>>735032794
base pay for wal-mart is higher than minimum wage and yet even higher than what the armed forces enlisted make with less hours. if they have to support a family of 4 with no degree they should have made better life choices. what about the fact that in cuba a full fledged doctor or surgeon makes less fucking money than a cab driver. how that is even right in anybody's mind is beyond me.

communism is a joke.

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>>735033240
>First off how is being a retard a market failure?
Poor people have a lot of kids. This has been the case since forever dude. Calm down

>But wait, the labor laws in the United States are causing Walmart and Costco to hire half the staff they would because the govt artificially doubles the cost of labor.
Walmart made $115.9 billion per quarter, its CEO makes a $35 million salary. And yet it's the Government that's the problem?

>Taxes, mandatory insurance, etc.
Yeah, heaven forbid companies help fucking pay for the society they exist in. Oh fuck, people want basic services so they can survive in the modern world? Those entitled market failures.

>>735033240
Govt had to step in because of the market failure.
Before the govt. stepped in, people were paid barely enough to survive.
Before the govt. stepped in, people were getting hurt and dying due to horrible working conditions.
Before the govt. stepped in, people were forced to go deeply into debt to the company that employ them. This in turn kept them working there because the bill would be due immediately upon quitting. And that was a real threat because people went to jail if they couldn't pay.
Before the govt. stepped in, corporations used to grind people up and spit them out to die in the gutter when they could no longer work.

The Govt. had to step in because of guys like Jay Gould "I could hire half the working class to kill the other half".
He wasn't joking.

>>735026570
That is the dumbest thing I have seen all day.

>>735024093
cuck

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>>735025063

>>735026819
"boo hoo someone has different values from me"

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>>735023519

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>>735025063
I think I might just have scraped the edge

>>735034049
your a fucking faggot

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>>735033613
What if they come from a poor background and literally couldn't afford college?

And even if the worker made bad market choice, why should we as a society let children suffer if their parents can't be trusted be financially responsible? How can you defend the existence of 15 million children in poverty in the us?

Wouldn't it be better if we just taxed the rich their share, re-allocated useless funds, and made sure that everyone in the US lived decently like any other developed country?

Capitalism is a joke. You're beyond cucked.

>>735025063
As if this half-baked vastly oversimplified political compass meme has any meaning in the first place other than giving sore-assed anons something to yell about for a few minutes

>>735023808
What's it like being an actual retard?

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This is from a while ago but I probably haven't changed much since

>>735034143
keep it up and you might even hurt my feelings, newfriend

>>735033659
>poor people have a lot of kids
Actually people who have a lot of kids end up poor. Important distinction

>The CEO who employees 1.4 million Americans alone makes a lot of money
Uh yea I'd fucking hope so. He manages one of the single most value creating entities in the US. Wages are a function of the earners productivity. The government, by definition, adds nothing. Simply transfer wealth inefficiently from party to party based on nothing besides muh feels

>basic services
Because firms never offer higher wages or insurance or workers comp just to be competitive.

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>>735023519
build that wall

>>735034547
I still don't understand how Gary lost

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>>735033800
>tfw corporations are a creation of govt intervention
>tfw citation needed
>tfw stupid fucking libfags take the spoonfed version of history without any critical thought

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>>735033380

>>735034373
Firms do, on occasion, but they will offer the lowest wages they can, it has nothing to do with the wellbeing of employees. CEOs who do important jobs should indeed make fair money for their hard work, but a lot of equally hard working people who fill critical but less glamorous roles don't make money that reflects their contribution. The free market isn't as meritocratic as a lot of idealistic libertarians would like to believe. As if profit-driven CEOs are somehow qualified to be leaders of the free world in a way politicians fundamentally aren't, even though they are often the same group of people

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>>735023886

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>>735034373
>Gov adds nothing
>literally maintains society
>allowed and encouraged the conditions so that the CEO could make that much money in the first place

>Uh yea I'd fucking hope so. He manages one of the single most value creating entities in the US
>contributes none of his own labor
>only has that success due to the workers he's abused
>managing is done by consultants and analysts anyway

>simply transfer wealth from party to party based on a living wage w/ modern benefits, because we're human beings

Holy shit you're class cucked. This is some prime time pork

>>735034674
>sucking so much cock I can't even read the post I quote

>>735033380
Fairly close to centrist, left-leaning. A pretty reasonable worldview. Since you're on 4chan, prepare to be assailed by 15 year olds telling you to kill yourself, regardless of your score

>>735034902
I didn't say anything about how hard they work. It's the value of their work. Wages in a free market will always reflect the value of their work.

Too bad the United States hasn't had anything close to a capitalist society since the Sherman Anti-trust act.

>>735035000
>govt adds no value to the economy
>free markets can and have more efficiently allocated resources than any planned economy
>you obviously don't know what a CEO does
>commie drivel
>lol no they don't

>his money should be mine cuz I need it more waaahhhh way to enslave your fellow man there champion of the commoner

>>735034660
because he was uninformed. Remember the interview where, when asked about Aleppo(was especially huge in the news at the time), he didn't even know what it was? That's a major failure for a guy who can't turn fearmongering into votes for him like Trump did. If you're going to go after voters by appealing to logic/reason/knowledge, fucking up like that is not good. Of course he never stood a chance vs Trump anyway

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>>735023519

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I think I'm pretty alright.

>>735035116
I appreciate that comment. I like to think of myself of exactly that, left-leaning centrist. Voted for Hillary in an attempt to prevent Trump's presidency(strongly dislike both candidates) - my ideal candidate was Evan McMullin. Really think he could've been a thing if given more publicity.

>>735035594
motherfucker went full reddit

>>735035127
That's a fair distinction. It's a difference of worldviews. "Value" doesn't have an objective meaning here, so it's unlikely we'll agree on how much value a CEO offers, not because either of us are wrong, but just because we value different things. Personally, I think a CEO or an innovator should indeed be rewarded for their contribution, just a little bit less than they currently are, redistributing a small amount of wealth so that nobody has to suffer. But if we delved into it you'd probably find that a lot of my beliefs are at odds with a capitalistic value system

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>>735032881

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What am i?

>>735035824
I'm very leftist myself, and I didn't dislike Hillary as much as the average American. But even someone like me who was ok with her policies has to admit - she does lack charisma.

>>735035958
A retard

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am i a nazi?

>>735035958
C O M R A D E

>>735035127
>>735035906
Too bad there's no such thing as a 'free market'. If not Govt. intervention, then it's a power disparity between employers and employees.
You can't have a free labor market if employers and employees are in any way unequal.
And without some form of intervention, equality between the two is virtually impossible.

>>735035592
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOT_BoGpCn4 just watched that again. it was legitimately cringeworthy, especially for a guy trying to become president

>>735036028
You're more a centrist than anything.

>2017
>anything other than left libertarian

lol

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>>735023886

>>735035958
Completely retarded

>>735034175
>What if they come from a poor background and literally couldn't afford college?

they have scholarships if they had the grades for it. and if they didn't, most low income jobs work around a schedule to allow an employee to attend classes at the local community college. and then there's the gi bill.....

>Wouldn't it be better if we just taxed the rich their share, re-allocated useless funds, and made sure that everyone in the US lived decently like any other developed country?
so we tax the rich huh? how much? like 60%? what if they don't want to pay that much? what are we going to do if they leave? they're rich in modern times, they can move to a foreign country and live like gods among men.

what funding is useless? the billions of dollars going to the armed forces that keeps carriers fueled with nuclear rods and keeps personnel fed? the billions that oversees the infrastructure of our society? the billions that educate our populace to a standard of intelligence? please tell me what programs we should cut to make sure that the lowest and least contributing class of our society keep reproducing.

communism is still a system ran by human kind. i don't trust an imperfect being to lead and imperfect race with the ideals of a perfect economy. do you think that communism will work in a society that is multinational? do you think communism would work in a society that is interstellar?

>>735036234
>2017
>greentext

>>735035906
You might be surprised. Capitalism has been demonized in the EU and the US to the point where no one seems to know what it's all about.

That CEO that makes too much money has zero incentive to just accumulate it and dive into it like scrouge mcduck. He's losing money because of inflation. So he invests it. Perhaps if Walmart worker gets a revolutionary idea he invests that excess money into the man who was working to make ends meet. He gave him a chance to pull himself out of subsistence.

It's a little pie in the sky I get that, but it's my firm belief that capitalism can pull out the best in society because there is a huge market incentive to be not a total dick

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>>735035699

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I remember when I projected my own agency onto others

>>735036337
found the trumpgret poster

>>735036138
There is absolutely a power disparity in a free market and it would still be a free market. The consumers have basically all the power. That's why it's a venerable system.

Nothing has an absolute monopoly on force like the state.

>>735036334
>hey can move to a foreign country and live like gods among men.
What stops them from moving now? Oh yeah, because we give them the best deal for their money as opposed to anywhere else.
We can afford to charge them a little more, so long as it's not so much more that they really do find better profits elsewhere.
In other words - WE're the ones giving them the best deal in the world. That's why they're here.

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>>735023519

>>735036138
Aye, I didn't mean to imply otherwise with my post. It's really a matter of what degree of intervention you can tolerate. I think capitalists have a point, you don't want to stifle innovation, or deincentivize people with too much

>>735036659
>Nothing has an absolute monopoly on force like the state.
Tell that to the Somalians.

And power disparity is not freedom by any definition. In fact, it's the antithesis of free markets.

>>735036384
Thanks for this thoughtful response, I haven't looked at it that way before. I like a lot of things about capitalism, I just want workers to be protected

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Political Compass

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>>735037022
8Values

>>735036850
You mean the Somalians that have been increasing in GDP, standard of living, and infant survivability over the past decade? It takes a minute to get out of the Stone Age you fuckwit

And exactly what magically force are the firms going to use to compel people to act like they want? Jail, exile, murder?

Oh wait, no that's the state

>>735036752
Precisely my POV.
It should always be a dynamic balance.
Dynamic because the balancing point will move as economic/social circumstances require.

>>735036902
As do I. I'd argue most capitalists would say that's why they support capitalism. As long as there's arbitrage and expectation of respect of personal property, the power of the market stays with the market and out of any one corruptible humans hands

>>735036384
Hey that really opened my eyes a lot - the notion that the superwealthy will re-invest into the (or a) economy. Still bothers me that it promotes a style of dog-eat-dog mentality where if you can't keep up you suffer. While I don't desire any extreme measures, I think it's just silly in the year 2017 for there to be people so rich they can't spend it all while some are so poor they are dying, even with great effort to escape that poverty.

>>735037137
Actually, the corporations did hold people enslaved through debt. Ever hear of the company store? And that debt was due the moment you quit or were fired.
And back then, you really did go to jail if you couldn't pay.

So literally, the corporations were using the state to enforce slave like conditions on workers. And that's what you're calling a 'free labor market'. lol.

The ultimate case, of course, was slavery itself. Sure, the slaves were paid in basic food, clothing and shelter. But I wouldn't call that a "free labor market". And why not? Because they were slaves - total power disparity.

Face it, you think slavery is part of a 'free labor market' - which is totally ludicrous.

>>735037137
Ever heard of Jay Gould?
>"I could hire half the working class to kill the other half"
He wasn't kidding.

Back then, companies really DID hire people to beat and even kill striking workers.

>>735036671
>What stops them from moving now?
how about not leaving their home? shit michael caine lives in england and gets fucking taxed 50% of his income. he and other english elite threatened many a time to leave england if they raised the tax even higher. if you were raised within a nation's borders, you're not typically going to leave those borders. why did escobar never leave columbia despite having the means to his entire life?

>>735037541
I know it can seem heartless but if the goal is to bring everyone as a whole to a better standard of living the historical empirical data is very clear that freedom of the movement of capital is the best way to achieve it. It's what ushered in the industrial revolution and pulled humanity out of Malthusian subsistence. The "attempt to reel in the damaging affects of capitalism" by the state was nothing more than an orchestrated power grab. You need proof just look at the first three major complaints tried by the trust busting arm of the DOJ. All competitors trying to win over using the power of the state.

>>735037758
>corporations using the state
>using the state
>the state
Not capitalism

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fuck

>>735038077
So why don't they leave instead of whining about it all the time?
As you said, they have the money. Nobody is holding a gun to their head.

They stay because they have the best deal right where they are and they know it.

A surgean in the U.S. threatens to leave... Where is he going to go? It's not like he will be making his seven figure income in Zimbabwe or Tanzania. He won't be doing it in Mexico or Spain either.
He stays because he's got the best deal right where he is. Even if they raise his taxes a bit more, he'll still stay because it's still his best deal.

>>735038078
It is heartless indeed, but as you said there in the end it's what will provide the best results. Guess "that's life" really is a true phrase

>>735038273
You think the corporations give a fuck? You can play your semantics games all you want. It doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. Slavery is NOT freedom regardless of HOW it happens.

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>>735038534
>ideology says millions can starve so no one has a boss(kek)
>claims moral high ground

>>735038486
>It's not like he will be making his seven figure income in Zimbabwe or Tanzania
if someone is making 7 figures and moves to zimbabwe or tanzania, they have enough money for capital. they buy that capital and start a company. build a company with services that serve the needs of that society. shit, with a cool million they could fund a militia and conquer the natives. why continue being a surgeon at that point?

>>735038664
Only a government can enforce slavery in the long run

>>735038078
>It's what ushered in the industrial revolution and pulled humanity out of Malthusian subsistence.
By your saying that tells me you know nothing of the first industrial revolution - which happened during the middle ages. The industrial revolution you are referring to was the THIRD industrial revolution. And it brought with it untold human misery and suffering until the advent of workers rights, unionization and collective bargaining.

>>735023519
the fact theres any other square than the blue one is shameful.

>>735038828
What? Not sure what you are referring to exactly

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Thought I was more on civil liberties

>>735038985
By your account, Americans should be running 3/4 the world as their own little fiefdoms.
I don't know what planet you're from, but that hasn't happened here on Earth.

>>735039004
bullshit. in fact, slavery thrives with a weak government.

>>735039136
Sorry wrong anon

Can't find the post I was trying to reply to

>>735039273
>By your account, Americans should be running 3/4 the world as their own little fiefdoms.
>I don't know what planet you're from, but that hasn't happened here on Earth.

we could. it's not like it's impossible. promise them life after death, riches upon their success, or even just a life better than the one they currently live. get a man to believe in something they'll do anything for you. something like communism maybe. you could oust a tsar and redistribute an entire kingdom's wealth.

>>735039659
How old are you? 14?
You have a child's worldview.

>>735027039
>Porky
if russia does so well in the cold why didnt they win the cold war ROOOSKIe

>>735027206
If you didnt you should be thrown out of a helicopter tbh

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>>735023519
if you don't have anything valuable for me to become more successful, then you're just a obstacle in my path

>>735036207
Spoiler alert:
So were the Nazis.
He's just very low on the Authoritarian scale.

>>735039976
i bet you have a lot of friends

>>735024093
fucking hippie

>>735039976
Go away ISIS

>>735040186
>very low on the Authoritarian scale
so, not so Nazi.
He's a notsoNazi.

>>735039833
i'm 28, educated, a veteran, and a centrist. you're the one with a child's view thinking that a society built upon a snowflake ideal that everyone in a society has worth. you should probably go outside sometime.

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>>735040358
Hit a nerve, did I?

>>735040479
no i'm not upset at all. you're the one slinging shit.

>>735040358
triggered af

>>735039273
Private slavery can only exist in the short run. Eventually the cost of maintaining "ownership" of another person(holding them captive, having hired guns escort them around) is subsumed by the benefit of paying them for their work instead. There's a reason short run slavery flourishes under weak governments, the lack of infrastructure(that will spring forth naturally without govt intervention but whatevs). Without a viable option outside of slavery, the slaves will rationally submit to being enslaved. Give them options and no one can force them to do anything short of the point of a gun and guns are expensive

Tl;dr slavery isn't rational for profit maximization

>>735040802
Thus, the only way for slavery to be profitable in the long run is to have someone with guns(the govt) front the cost of keeping the slaves in line(legally endorsing their status as slaves

>>735024093
Found the non-retarded person.

>>735040785
56% liberty and classed as social liberal, kek

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I normally don't see people over here

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>>735041666

>>735041466
Lol, so misguided. I'm in the bottom left corner. And I'm a cop.

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Glad to see so many comrades in this thread

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>>735023519
I have the same pin point as Gandhi
is that a good thing or a bad thing /b/

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>>735023519

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>>735023519

>>735024093
>>735025087
>>735027634
>>735029976
>>735034129
>>735035914
>>735036372
>>735037022
>>735042039
>>735042303
>>735042345
all these ghandi loving free spirited hand holding hippies.

>>735024093
mah niggah

>>735042803
But I work a 11-7 office job, pay taxes, a kid on the way, and married

same fagging as
>>735042303

What does it even mean to be a left - libertarian?

>>735042803
Nah, it's just being concerned for the world around oneself, including other people.

>>735042956
That's what I got. It means economically you are socialist, but when it comes to social issues you support individual rights and freedoms.

>>735043088
ew

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Death to those who stand in the way of the worker's liberation.

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>>735027448
We mourn Catalonia, it is an inspiration of what the future could be, and a reminder of what we must sacrifice to achieve it.

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lol I always thought I was a right winged, but I guess not (don't tell anyone else or I will fucking kill you)

>>735025894
Once the means of production are entirely separated from labour (automation), the worker will become redundant. Those that own robot plants will become wealthy on a scale we have never seen before, due to never having to pay wages, and the rest will become destitute and aimless. The factory owners will set about extracting every last dollar from the poor. Once one becomes too poor to be a consumer, they will become unwanted by the factory owning class, and incentivized (or forced) not to reproduce. Substance abuse rates and suicide will skyrocket.

>>735043189
Yeah, who would want to tax the rich more, and avoid government meddling in our personal affairs...

>>735044124
the top lads like us.

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Basically in the center. I think I am more libertarian, though.

>>735044915
Go eat a Macron, stinky centrist.

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>>735023519I took this screenshot in the weirdest way possible. I did alt+prtsc but my tabs were still showing so I took this screenshot by zooming in using the option available in photos.
I thought I was going to be on the right.

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read the bread book everybody

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>>735028809
Weed and not getting shot by some petty criminal or edgelord teen with shitty parents and easy access to assault weapons.

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>>735025566
Wow you are autistic, all you did was put in strongly disagree for everything.

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>>735024093
Too far into the corner, but being on that side close to the center means you are a logical human being with a rational sense of ethics.

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>>735045811

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>>735023519

Rate me

>>735046828
>nationalist
i hope you get fucked with a sword

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Bam

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not doing it again, won't have changed.