Ok /b/ so I am proud gun owner but need some help arguing back

>guns have nothing to do with guns being shot
I keked.

>>734846237
Well, food has nothing to do with obesity. It's the same here.

>>734846338
First cuck of the day! Bet you voted bernfag.. I said 'shootings' not things being shot.. educate yourself lefty. Without guns these people would still find a way to hit up schools, they'd just be use knives to shoot those kids instead

>>734846237
>I am proud gun owner
>need help arguing
Why am I not surprised?

>>734846531
If knife guns aren't already a thing, they should be.

>>734846571
Cuck 2- trump will send you back to Mexico!

>>734846237
>>734846531
Which are far less effective.

>>734846639
>LEL le cuck much? XDD!
You do not have the brain capacity to safely own a gun.

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>>734846237
>help me safe space, I'm not smart enough to come up with arguments on my own

Modern conservative movement, folks

Tell them about all the mass stabbings and mass baseball bat attacks that kill large numbers.

>>734846708
Fuck u, I will shoot you and your liberal agenda

>>734846237
Just kill yourself already
Eurofag

>>734846237

Guns are fine. Owning them is fine. Shooting for fun is fine.

It is, however, an objective truth that the AR platform and all similar semi-automatic rifles (sks, steyr, AK, etc..) and cartridges such as 5.56 and 7.62 were developed with the express interest of killing as many HUMANS as possible as quickly as possible.

Those kinds of guns are fun to shoot, however they also enable criminals to perpetrate a great deal of harm easily.

I'm not sure what the solution is. It isn't making guns illegal, but we should do something about these "assault" class weapons.

Whether you are a gun person or not, this is pretty objective...

>>734846237
invalid arguments
u are an unstable personality
real men dont need guns they kill u with their fists
kys

>>734846738
Bernout detected

Tell them that they brought guns from their own countries. The radical terrorists bring their guns from the middle east. Alot of times, guns of brought up from mexico.

Ask them how they intend to stop guns that come from outside the country.

They probably believe that immigrants deserve tons of privacy rights and shouldn't be searched when migrating.

Any kind of attempt at processing these people to stop them from bringing guns in, will be an act of immigration regulation that they won't like.

>>734846237

Honestly, OP...you just have to accept they are right and still defend it. Even in the 20s and 30s, gangsters were able to but Tommy Guns and BARs from Sears to commit their crimes.

The thing is, is that we have to accept it as an evil we live with. Cars are just as dangerous in causing accidental death and recently are being used as terrorist weapons like on Bastille Day and at the London Bridge.

In NY, all firearm transfers must go through a 3rd party FFL. The fabled "universal background check." But guess what? Like every other law, people choose not to follow it.

All you can do is to give them examples of how guns have also saved people. How they have helped people. I was broke AF but my shotgun got me a scholarship to go to a private university and get a degree. Hunting and shooting sports are a legitimate and long-lived tradition in this nation.

you can kill with a car and no one blames them for killing

>>734846796
Kys cuck! Such a eurocuck argument - we have 2nd amendmant wrights ffs... EDUCATE YOURSELF

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>>734846632

they weren't very effective.

>>734846774
I rest my case.

>>734846237
how about instead of just labeling them as "cucktards" you should probably listen to their valid arguments (ikr, crazy to think they might actually have a few valid points) then refute them with your own valid points. Screeching "HURR DURR CUCK LIB TARDS DUNT NO ANYFING" is just as cringey and fucking retarded as the liberals screeching "HURRR ALL GUNS R THE BAD ONES NO GUNS ANYWHERE".


Be adult enough to see that neither side is 100% right. Isn't that the point in college? seeing other peoples view points, absorbing them and growing as a person? not just screeching at each other with the same repeated autistic arguments.

We give the SJW's a hard time for doing that, lets not be hypocrites.

>>734846950

>trying to have a legitimate discussion
>immediately hit back with stupid trash-tier response.

Guess you don't want any intelligent discourse. Figures. Typical alt-right mentality.

>>734847039
Cuck detected

>>734846796
I agree with automatic weapons being heavily regulated, but long rifles and small firearms have no need of regulation atm

>>734846237
>how can I explain to these leftist cucks that guns have nothing to do with shootings
Blaming guns for shooting people is like blaming spoons for Rosie ODonnell being fat.

>>734846237
These poor kids were brainwashed from an early age by their state sponsored instructors and have been denied the tools of critical thinking.

As evidenced by the completely overwhelming number of shills posting against your position ITT /b has been nearly fully infiltrated as well.

There is no logic for the kind you describe, and the only thing that will purge this world of them is the very same people they proport to love and accept. Once Islam / ISIS is no longer a minority in their area the gay-loving, liberal thinking masses will be slaughtered by them.

Only those that have the ability to defend themselves will have a *chance* of defending themselves and their families.

Good luck OP. Keep armed and practice much.

>>734846853
U cant check his holster just bcuz he's brown dats racist

>>734846237
Well they are right

More availability of guns = more shootings.

Notice there was a stabbing and bombing in Brit, not shootings recently.

But if you're talking US, you're fucked anyway

1. There are more guns than people in the US already in circulation, even if you banned them today and started recalling it would take decades and decades to deal with it
2. Mexico
3. The US is a authoritarian oligarchy, no amount of bitching will beat the multi trillion dollar arms industry.

>>734846796

actually, intermediate cartridges were DESIGNED so that troops could carry more ammunition and WOUND soldiers.

A wounded soldier is better than a dead soldier because then 2 more guys have to help the 1 wounded guy. That's 3 soldiers out of the fight instead of 1.

Rounds like .30-06 and 7mm magnum that were designed to KILL 250+ pound animals as quickly and humanely as possible are far more deadly.

Also, fuck your "design argument." Design has nothing to do with how it's used. Cars are designed to carry things long ways and convey people to destinations yet people use them to commit suicide or terror attacks like Bastille Day in Paris.

Intent is everything when it comes to inanimate objects. Nail Hammers, Baseball bats, and Kitchen knives are all lethal weapons that were designed for harmless activities.

>>734846237
Libtard here, guns aren't to blame its who we give guns, tell them to fuck off

>>734847183
Literally this - can't wait for the grate lib tard cuck purge - my piece will keep me and my family safe.

>>734847116
Just pointing bullshit on both sides of this autistic fucking screeching contest that this whole liberals vs the right has turned into m9. I tend not to pick a side like a bunch of tribal degenerates screeching about "alt right nazis" and "cuck lib tards". Is this fad ever going to fade? it's getting boring now anyway.

>>734847077
>Not catching the obvious troll

>>734847126

Not even automatic rifles. Automatic rifles aren't even great for killing large numbers of people in quick succession.

They fire too quickly, recoil becomes a problem, etc. Semi-automatic high-capacity rifles with high muzzle velocity are best, and unfortunately the market is FLOODED with military surplus ammunition and all manner of AR platform based rifles.

Bolt-action rifles, shotguns, and pistols are more or less fine.

I just think we need to have stricter background checking and control before obtaining guns.

>>734847126

This.
>>734846237

OP, SIMPLY GO TO THE FBI'S UNIFIED CRIME REPORT AND SHOW THEM THAT AR-15 STYLE RIFLES ARE USED IN LESS THAN %1 OF ALL SHOOTING HOMICIDES.

pistols are used in 75% and yet everyone cries for "assault weapon" regulation.

>>734846237
Well. Think about it this way. If guns never existed, would we have mass shootings?

I agree you have a right to own, but don't be naive.

>>734846531
>they'd just use knives to shoot those kids instead
Top kek

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>>734846639

>>734847335

Pistols are used in ~75% of all homicide shootings. Many of them very cheap .22lr, .380, and 9mm handguns....

>>734847208
Assuming all illegal aliens are brown is racist.

>>734847126
All weapons should have some regulation.

The lack of regulation is why so many criminals get their hands on guns in the first place.

>>734847335
It takes minimal practice to learn how to manage the recoil, even if only a little, and that allows you to shoot bursts of shots into a large crowd with minimal effort

>>734847327
The only smart person on this thread

>>734846955
Thats a gun knife not a knife gun

>>734847488
Assuming I meant illegal aliens just because I said brown is racist

>>734846237
>liberals
>getting them to see reason
Pick one.

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>>734846237
Why explain something to someone who's mind is already made up? If they hate the 2nd then repeal otherwise they can fuck off. So they can get 2/3 of the Senate or 2/3 of the states to call a convention, then get the repeal passed and hope 3/4 of the states ratify it. To me, not worth even arguing cause thats a high fucking hurdle for them to jump.

>>734847322
>Is this fad ever going to fade?
In about 2 years when the off-elections happen, when your voting really counts and no one gives a fuck. Then it will ramp back up in 4 years.

>>734847630
Now days anything can be racist.


This post is racist

>>734847541
The regulations in place for said firearms are sufficient enough if there weren't so many workarounds for obtaining a gun

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>>734847243
Come on dude.
Guns are designed with a purpose, and it's not building houses.
The are destructive things. Things that you use a gun on are destroyed. That's just it.
I love shooting. It's a lot of fun. I just am not obtuse enough to claim they they serve any other purpose than destruction.

>>734847541

Let me explain something.

Laws are reactive. They do nothing in the way of preventing crime unless the person was already caught and has probation/felony status or minimal deterrent effect.

We have hundreds and hundreds of laws on the book and this stuff still happens. The laws are either not being enforced or they just don't work.

Buying guns under your name and then selling them to someone who can't legally own them is illegal. It is called a straw purchase. But how do you fight it? You can't. You have to catch them after the fact and arrest them.

There is a legal battle happening now trying to restore the gun rights of non-violent felons and I happen to agree with it. Many states already have that in place, it's just that the federal institution has been defunded by congress

>>734847630
>734846853
>guns of brought up from mexico.

Context of the thread to which I replied.

>>734847243

Carrying more ammunition will allow a criminal to cause a lot more harm than if their only choice of weapon is a pistol or a shotgun, regardless of whether someone is wounded or killed.

Guns make it too easy to kill people. Plain and simple.

You're right, intent is important. If someone has malicious intent, why should we make it easier for them to cause harm to large numbers of people by having such firearms easily accessible?

By that argument, we should make dynamite legal for citizens to purchase. It was designed for mining operations, not to kill people or animals.

Why don't we? Because it is far too easy to kill huge numbers of people with explosives...

>>734847757

You didn't say destruction, you said KILL. My $3,500 Italian shotgun was designed to destroy clay targets. Can I put a slug in it and kill a man? Sure.

But like I said, it's all intent.

>>734847469

Source? Also, one or two victim homicides aren't really what we're discussing here. It's mass shootings.

>>734846796
5.56 was not designed to kill, it was designed to wound. Also, the AR platform was not designed as an assault platform. It was designed as a sporting gun. AR stands for Armalite Rifle. You're confusing AR-15 with M-16

>>734847757
Then why do cops have them if they serve no good purpose?

I dare you.

>>734847802
>radical terrorists
Checkmate

>>734846237
You worded this all wrong lmao.

Anyways, people will find ways to kill people. With guns, knifes, cars, planes, etc. So if everyone had a gun would people stop killing each other? No. The same goes if no guns ever existed because there is another way. Look at what just happened in England. Cars and knifes killed people. If people had guns maybe they would have stopped them. If they had guns and the citizens had guns maybe it wouldn't escalate at all.

If everyone would have a gun at all times and were trained properly, would mass shootings be reduced? More than likely yeah.

>>734847870
You can put a slug in a shotgun? Interesting.

>>734847870
Your shotgun was designed to shoot shotgun shells from its barrels. The ammo you use was designed to destroy clay targets. Your brain was designed to kill itself.

If you're going to use this argument, at least get the parts and what they do right.

>>734847895
Source is the FBI's unified crime report (UCR)
I studied criminal justice and I am an avid shooter.
Also, pistols are used in many mass shooting as well. Aurora, Newtown, and San Bernadino. However, because the shooter ALSO had an AR, nobody cares.

>>734847834
You're under the assumption I am against regulation. I'm just saying the design argument has no bearing on the issue.

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>>734846237
>guns have nothing to do with shootings

>>734847916

The AR-15 and M-16 are identical rifles, in practice.

The first AR-15 design was altered slightly and rebranded in select-fire option as the M16 for military use.

>>734847895
What makes a mass shooting any more awful than a homicide or two? A death is a death don't pick and choose whatever statistic goes along with your narrative

>>734846632
They sort of are, Russians created a Ballistic Knife that uses a spring to fire the blade off the handle. They're pretty neat.
Also, it's really bothering me that the girl in OP's image doesn't have her drop leg holster belt through the belt loops on her pants.

>>734848014

No, my shotgun was designed from inception with the sole intent of shooting at only clay targets.

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>>734847994

har har

>>734846237
Pro tip: You don't. Bro, listen to this...closely...YOU DONT ARUE WITH LIBERALS ABOUT GUNS COZ LIBERALS ARE RETARDED. They are so inmature and they lack so much sense they dont understand that legal gun owners have guns for either recreation or protection...(actually both). Their tiny lil minds cant process the fact guns can save lives in the right hands and they can take lives in the wrong hands. They think bad people dont exist and that guns make people evil...don't waste your time, just ammo at the range, bro. Srly.

>>734846237
>guns shoot people
>ban guns
>knives stab people
>ban knives
>blunt objects smash people
>ban blunt objects
Basically what will happen

>>734848067

THINK OF THE CHILDREN

>>734848123
Just enjoy your sport and let the trolls troll, friend
3k sounds like a pretty gun though

Ask them why they all shout "BAN ALL GUNS!!" when a shooting occurs but when a shitskin goes alahu akbar on innocents you're considered a bigot when you want them out of your country.

>>734848184

pretty much this. If the person doesn't understand the basic operation of firearms, then there is no arguing with them. They simply don't know what they are talking about.

>>734848190
Exactly. What are they gonna do about the car run overs that have been happening lately? Ban cars? HA!

>>734847974
>If people had guns maybe they would have stopped them
Just like all the mass shootings and bombings have been stopped in america because it's citizens clearly guns.

Crimes being prevented by armed citizens doesn't happen as often as you guys would like to think. Most people's first instinct, regardless of what they're carrying is to get away from danger, not go towards it. And in these sort of situation, someone not trained in any sort of combat is likely to shoot an innocent bystander than the perpetrator, statistically.

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>>734846237
If guns aren't the things that would be killing people, it would be knives, explosives or vehicles.

Take the bombings in Manchester for example and London bridge, those where committed with explosives, knives and vehicles and devastated the places.

Anyways, you can't take away the 2ed amendment. SO FUCK YEAH AMERICA and all the shit

>t. Proud concealed carry citizen

>>734848292
BAN ALL HOUSEHOLD CHEMICALS THEY IRRITATE THE SKIN AND CAN BE USED TO CAUSE MINOR DISCOMFORT TO OUR CHILDREN AND LOVED ONES

>>734848343
>Crimes being prevented by armed citizens doesn't happen as often as you guys would like to think.
Since crimes that don't happen don't get recorded...possibly because an area is known to be a conceal+carry hotspot...
How would you know that, exactly?

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Dare them to put this sign up in front of their house for 3 months

>>734848343
>And in these sort of situation, someone not trained in any sort of combat is likely to shoot an innocent bystander than the perpetrator, statistically.
Present statistics, please.

>>734848123
Ok. Does your shotgun say "clay only" on the side, or is it like you said earlier, if you put a slug in it then it can kill?

>>734846796
Any 12-guage shotgun is far more effective when it comes to fucking your shit up. Any semi-auto pistol or rifle is going to send payload at you as fast as the shooter can pull the trigger, but something like a 00-buck shell sends about 7-9 steel balls, that are each roughly the size of a pistol round, in one shot.
>tl;dr shotguns kill gooder
>>734846237
Tell them that London just had hella terrorist attacks and all the unarmed, law-abiding citizens could do is throw chairs at the terrorists.

>>734848329
Not give crazy people cars or a license. Oh wait, they already do that.

you show them the london bridge attack where they muzzies used a van and knives to kill people in a country where guns are hard to get. They killed 12 and wounded 48..... those numbers are more than your average shooting. If you want to KILL you will find a way to KILL, man has been killing man way before the gunpowder was invented.

Also show them the story from yesterday of the man who lost his mind and was trying to drown his twin baby boys in a bath tub....when his daughter ran to a neighbor's house, the neighbor ran over with his gun and killed that piece of shit, saving the two boys.

Also.....tell them the US Army should stop using guns if they don't like them and then see what becomes of the West.

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>>734846237
>I can't defend my ideologies
You need to rethink your life.

>>734848343
First off show me those stats. Secondly, I said trained properly underneath.

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>>734848579

>>734846237
It's easier to get a gun than a bomb.
It's easier to make a bomb than a gun.
Outlaw guns, and kids will make bombs.

Driving over people like this is real life GTA V is the new fad anyway and that doesn't take guns.

Ban killers from society. Oh, we already do that. Arm yourselves until all the killers can be identified. Here's your gun.

>>734848467
Ok anon, get rid of all guns and I'll gladly post place this sign. Thanks for proving my point about America being dangerous because of guns

>>734848495
i can kill you with a butterknife
whats your point
not the samefag btw

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>>734846237
>guns have nothing to do with shootings

listen man i don't agree that guns should be banned either, but people like you aren't helping that case.

>>734848481
Statistically as in the odds of shooting a single perpetrator as opposed to a plethora of innocent bystanders. I wasn't speaking of any official "stat". But look up crime prevention by citizen. Very low number.
>>734848445
>crimes that don't happen
If you shoot Tyrone trying to break into your house, you're going to have to report it because you need to justify discharging a weapon. If you don't report shooting someone to prevent a crime, that is a crime itself.

>>734848695
>Here's your gun.
Can I get two?
One for my daughter. So I can properly educate her about the device and the seriousness of handling such a device responsibly, thus avoiding any ambiguous accidents in the future.

Thanks in advance.

Play the numbers game.

There are 110 million gun owners in the US and the number of firearms is constantly increasing, currently somewhere around 500 million in circulation.

The number of firearm homicides is somewhere around 3000 to 4000 a year. Most are drug/gang related.

That means that the VAST majority of gun owners are law abiding and that the idea that guns or gun owners are inherently dangerous is a lie.

>>734848772
>But look up crime prevention by citizen. Very low number.
No. You provide the statistics. You made the claim.

>>734848555
Hahahahahaha! See?

>>734846237
>I'm too retarded to form my own arguments so telll me what to say so people won't make fun'a me

Drop out while you're behind Billy-bob and just enjoy that good sister pussy and min wage job

>>734848822
Agreed, so does the dub dubs.

>>734848627
My point is stop being autistic. Your gun wasn't designed for any specific target. It was designed to eject small projectiles from its barrel.

And I highly doubt your fatass would know how to use a knife in any combat situation.

>>734848695
>Ban killers from society
We're more interested in capturing drug-users than killers. Thank America's for-profit prison system for that.

>>734848495

Does a claw hammer say nails only on the side? Does an AR-15 say kill people only on the side?

Like I said, design doesn't even matter.

>>734848772
CDC in 2013 Sands Hook report found that around 300,000 defensive firearm uses occurred every year, slightly exceeding the number of incidents of firearms being used in the commission of a crime.

The CDC also notes, reluctantly, that the data shows a victim's possession of a firearm during an incident as the greatest predictor for survival, exceeding training in any martial art or possession of any other self defense means. In short, guns save lives even according to the CDC.

>>734846237
Shoot the cancer.

>>734848495
If you pit a slug in an off the shelf shotgun without a slug barrel, you're a fuck up who knows nothing about guns.

Stop playing so much Payday 2 and go outside.

>>734848505
>any 12 gauge...

No. Ammo capacity, recoil, and accuracy all make a shotgun far less ideal for a mass shooter.

>>734846237
OP your a fucking retard that thinks cuck is the greatest word about, your the real cuck for the right wing bitch

>>734849283
Cuck detected

>>734848835
I just made the claim right there, sure. The stat wouldn't help or hinder my argument either way, so it's sort of irrelevant, which is why I didn't bring it up in my first post.
>>734848627
>trained properly

Well, if people would just do this, it would solve plenty of problems. Accidental discharges wouldn't happen so often.

Honestly the best course of action is to ignore them. They're the kind of people that need to get their say and be heard about everything. If you deny them that chance they will go apeshit.

>>734848190
>slippery slope fallacy

Wew lad

>>734849059
Many many claw hammers expicitly say use only on nails, and the warranty is void if used on chisels, catspaws l, crowbars. Etc. FYI

>>734849059
Do you shove bakers dough into the chamber when you want to shoot your gun? What's your point?

>>734849332
ND's happen all the time, even with trained personnel.

With enough fingers on enough triggers it's bound to happen occassionally.

But I agree we should train people to be combat ready. A semester course in highschool during senior year would probably do it.

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>>734848184
8/10 b8, pretty gr8 m8

>>734849097
>CDC

Center for disease control?

>>734848917
Lmao calling me a fatass when you have no idea what I look like. Stop projecting sjw.

Also you have to be the autistic one to not know how to make a claim properly. You first say, "people who are not trained will cause harm," when I said "if everyone would have gun...and were trained properly." So it shows you don't read. Next I tell you I made that claim in my original comment and you're rebuttal is I'm a fat autistic, guns are not designed for a specific target and I don't know how to use a knife. Lmao you are a libtard aren't you.

Also, have you ever shot a gun? Do you know how to use a knife in a "combat" situation?

>>734846237
they probably just think they are too easy to get your hands on

>>734846237
Let me try and understand this.
You think guns are the best in the world. Some cunts come and say they are shit for the world. You go to /b/ to ask for arguments to convince the cunts ?
You dont know why you love the gun, so you go to /b/ to get them to tell you why you love guns....
You are stupid as shit. You should put more effort in to finding out arguments then fucking copy paste them.
Get out of /b/. Read some books, be smarter, come back and tell us why you love guns

>>734849402
He's not wrong though.

He basically just recounted what has happened in the UK over the last 20 years.

>>734849548
Yes. After the Sandy Hook mass shooting, president Obama commissioned the to study gun usage and violence in the US.

The report was expected to provide data which would condemn gun owners as violent and show that guns cause violence and have no purpose in a civilized society.

Instead, the data showed the things I mentioned above, and the report was quickly buried.

>>734849521
Teaching our kids how to cook and survive in the real world should be part of the school's curriculum. This would include hunting and firearms training. But we're still on the STEM kick.

Not saying you should rely on the schools for this shit. Teach them young to respect these things.

>>734846237
Nah, you got nothing.

Mentally ill people exist in every society, and in societies with guns those people tend to kill a lot more people when they eventually go full disturbathon. Hard to spray a crowd with hot kitchen knives, or shoot someone in the head from 30 feet away with a baseball bat.

Guns aren't bad, humans are, so giving humnas guns is a fucking shit idea.
Don't believe me? Stay living in a gun-happy country. I'm happy without.

>inb4 bombs? because mentally ill people rarely have mad chemistry skills

>>734846237
so i used to be anti-gun until i discover one court case that changed everything. my thinking used to be:
>second amendment
>local police
>pick one
then i came across a little court case...
>Darrel vs. District of Columbia
the outcome of this case basically define the role of police in american society. police are there only to investigate crimes and arrest suspects. they are NOT to provide any special protections for any citizens. this means the police cannot respond unless a crime has been or is in the process of being committed. meaning, you are responsible for your own protection, the cops are there to preserve order in the society, not you or any people. so yea, now im saving up for a gun even though 2 months ago i'd have been disgusted with the thought.

>>734846237
How about the latest attacks in london; Explosives, knives, and trucks. I dont feel like doing the research but you should look into economic and house life of mass shooters. Maybe argue that to stop shootings we need to be working more on addressing mental health and less on the "tool" used for violence. Liberals love a bleeding heart story. Gets their manginas all sticky.

>>734849975
Why the fuck isn't this on the news to help people understand why guns can be important?

Uggg I hate the media.

>>734849797
Most people would benefit from being pushed through some kind of boot camp when they turn 18. Not to turn them into soldiers even, just citizens with knowledge of self defense, survival, land nav, etc. A class that also teaches how to write a check, do taxes, change a tire, get health insurance, and write a resume should be required too. It could replace something like AP Calc, or the fifth iteration of US history we force them to take.

>>734849975
sorry, that was supposed to be "Warren vs District of Columbia 1981" (google what's between the quotes)

>>734847233
>Authoritarian Oligarchy
How the hell did this little point just slip by?
I won't deny that industry has too much political power these days, but America is a capitalist society and a it's government is democratic republic. Authoritarian implies that the government has a massive control on the public, and lacks a system in which people vote for their political representatives and such. Capitalism is, for the most part, why companies are such economic powerhouses. They all seek a profit, and are throwing a lot of money in and out every day.

>>734849937
Do you watch the news? Go Google London Bridge.

These shootings and other forms of mass killing will always exist, no matter what laws we put in place. They stem from the society. People are unhappy, and for good reasons.

Taking away guns from private citizens only makes them more vulnerable and incapable to act when their rights are stripped more and more.

>>734850261
Bro he's not wrong. Look at the last election, where our choices were both garbage, pushed by wealthy backers. The results have been predictably similar too.

More war and rumors of war. More financial burden on the (white) middle class. More racial violence and divisiveness. More corporate interests making money off the taxpayer. More strengthening of the police state.

I'm a patriot and I love this country, but we're in trouble man.

>>734850124
cuz if everyone armed, we'd have less victims and paranoia. this would cause less need for police which would lead to less control from the government which would lead to something the government does not want. so no.

>>734846237

You need HELP to argue your case, against cucks?

And you ask for this help on 4chan?

Okidoki.

>>734846237
>Lib
>tard
>cuck
I can tell you're a future Baker scholar. How about you stay here in your safe space while the adults discuss things?

>>734850632
Oh so you mean less control from the gov as the founding fathers wanted lol

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>>734846237
Simplest example is New Zealand and Australia.
New Zealand has a significantly higher gun ownership rate and much more available semi autos yet % of deaths by firearm is almost exactly the same as Aus and overall homicide rate is lower.

>>734849097
Actually, the CDC report was skewed with assumptions designed to *minimize* the uses of firearms to prevent crime. Even with their bias, they still reached those conclusions.

More pro-gun researchers point out that the vast majority of self-defense uses of a firearm are simply "bad guy makes demand, you show gun, bad guy runs away" encounters. In those cases, few people bother to call the police. Who needs the hassle? Thus, the vast majority of successful cases of defensive firearms use never appear in any database.

From those sources, I've seen numbers as high as 2 million times a year for the U.S. That's probably an exaggeration; more level-headed folks have estimated about 1 million successful uses of firearms to deter crime in the U.S. annually and that's probably closer to the truth.

>>734846237
The OP, though? He needs to point out to the anti-gun idiots that the biggest mass murder in modern U.S. history was carried out with a pretty easy-to-get weapon: $1 worth of gasoline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire

If people wanna kill lots of other people, firearms aren't even the best way to go about it. They are, however, invaluable to individuals when it comes to fending off criminals.

>>734846950
As long as you can purchase one type of gun, even if it only a 9mm you will still have your second amendment right

>>734851003
Which founding father wanted that? Most of them were libs like Washington

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>>734846237
>proud gun owner
>need some help arguing
Bring your gun.

>>734852761
>force them to believe with threats of violence
Ok isis

>>734852747
Hence the term liberal, your typical modern lib might be a tard, doesn't mean part of the package isn't a reduction in government micro management.

>>734852644
>eurofag interpreting US rights
ffs

>>734852912
Nope american

>>734846531

Shootings are commonplace in the US because of the easy access to guns.

>>734852894
Which part is micromanaged?

>>734853021
And they let the handicap buy guns

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>>734852847

>>734853101
I'm not here to have a discussion about government control, so I'll leave it at this - What you do and don't consume is one example.

>>734853322
So preventing carcinogens from being in good is bad?

>>734853544
Good or bad has no place in the discussion, you either have the personal choice or you don't.

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>>734853007
good then there is a vehicle for the change you seek oh b/tard....... Get 2/3 of the Senate, or 2/3 of the states to call a convention, the repael or clarify the 2nd to your uber gay interpretation, then get 3/4 of the states to ratify it. Until then shove your opinions up your ass, assuming you left space......

>>734853738
Consumer protection is only a good thing.

>>734853021
England has been getting rektd.

>>734853874
Why?

>>734853761
I'm not saying to remove the amendment, I'm saying there aren't limitations behind it. So to only sell one type of gun is completely ok with the constitution

>>734854004
To prevent fraud and products that kill people.

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>>734846237

>>734846237
If you can't even form a convincing argument as to why you should be allowed guns then you probably shouldn't have guns, you daft fuck.

>>734854063
The first implies people with the intent to defraud another person comply with rules the second removes someones choice to do with themselves as they will.

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>>734846237
Your best bet is to voice the side of reason. Acknowledge that there is a problem with school shootings. Yes. Guns have contributed to that. Express doubt that they are the only contributing factor. Consider the recent terrorist attacks in London. Obviously not the same situation. But similar effect. Innocent civilians dying. No guns there.

Guns are too ingrained into American culture to expect any significant change. They are not being realistic either. There are too many in circulation right now. Changing the laws will just create a larger illegal gun market. On top of that it would be near impossible to make guns illegal AND make existing gun owners give up there guns. Chicago being the obvious example of a near war torn city with the strictest gun laws in the nation.

The issue is that someone who wants to harm an innocent human being can. It doesn't take much. A blunt object and a little bit of stealth and you could kill a lot of people before you are noticed.

>>734849259
Put fermented shit into your bird shot so the wounds fester, cause infection and maim or kill the victims

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>>734854019
the amendment doesn't state that and that interpretation is also NOT in line with SCOTUS, and now that SCOTUS is pretty much set to be conservative for the new 15-25 years then your only avenue to achieve ur goal of minimal capacity 9mm handguns as the ONLY available weapon (fuck the hunters am i right?) is to repeal or clarify the constitution via amendment. Have fun

>>734854192
>Chicago being the obvious example of a near war torn city with the strictest gun laws in the nation.

Australia is another example, far less gun culture, made a whole segment of legal guns illegal with a buyback amnesty where they were paying more than worth and ~20% of the now illegal guns were handed in.

>>734846237
Blaming guns for school shootings is like blaming cars for your dog getting hit or some shit. blame the operator. not the implement.

>>734854178
Choosing products is fine but preventing products with active chemicals that kill people are not. The fraud is like how wells Fargo created 5 accounts for every one person to boost their stocks.

It's not for a person, it's for businesses. That's why lead was taken out of paint

>>734854311
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm just saying that if they did, it would still follow the constitution

>>734854459
>Choosing products is fine but preventing products with active chemicals that kill people are not.
That's not how it works though anon, alcohol kills people, alcohol is strictly a poison but it's regulated and taxed so it's ok to consume - this is government micromanagement.

>>734854192
This. I always propose the argument that guns are already too ingrained into our society to ban them. There'd be mass hysteria.

>>734846639
You do not have the brain capacity to form arguments or think for yourself, please tell me why we should allow you to own a deadly weapon.

>>734850600
>muh popular vote
OK California, go away

>>734853981

Sadly yeah. It's not something that guns would have made better though.

>>734846237
Dont portray yourself as a "proud" gun owner. Portray yourself as a responsible gun owner and honestly explain why you have them

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>>734854553
in case you need some assistance with the basic concept of how to read that statement

>>734851603
There's like 5 people in New Zealand

>>734854638
Yes that's true but it takes a large amount to do so. If it's safe to a degree they will let it pass. But they don't let products that are almost guaranteed to kill people like how vioxx gave 27,000 people heart attacks or strokes

>>734854877
That says nothing about the types of guns you can buy at all.

>>734854899
And 20 in Australia, NZ's actually got a higher population density than Aus.

>>734853021
OR maybe it's the larger population leading to more impoverished which in turn leads to more bullied/mentally ill individuals who can't afford a decent education so they don't understand that a noose is easier than suicide by cop

>>734854930
> If it's safe to a degree they will let it pass
If that were the case there would be no such thing as the war on drugs

>>734855249
Only the war on drugs is against illegal drugs

Everyone knows, where there's more guns, there's less shootings! It just makes sense!
USA! USA!

>>734855333
Which are illegal because...

>>734855186

That's likely another cause of the issues, it's complicated, obviously.

>>734855011
It's also a tenth of the size

>>734855491
Hence the higher population density.

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>>734854998
nor does it say they can be restricted, many different types of guns, including grenade launchers were in use in the time period, they could have place in restrictions or a simple phrase stating "keep and bear arm shall not be infringed except in that the type of arms may be limited" these were not idiots or fools. regardless it does not say the types can be limited nor does SCOTUS (the only interpretation that matters) agree with you. And let me entertain your autistic proposal that one type of gun be allowed only. What about hunters? Big game rifles can take some small game but not all, small game rifles cannot take big game. Fowl need shot guns, farm pests such as coyotes and boar require guns such as the AR15 (the most effective at boar control, I live in FL and do that myself so I know). Some people prefer a wheel gun in 38 special as opposed to 9mm so prefer .357 magnum or .357 sig why make them use a round/gun they are not proficient at or able to use effectively? I can go on and on....

>>734855387
Well depends on the drug. Weed is so the alcohol industry can hold more of a stance but the rest are usually do to addiction or the creation of mental issues

Sadly you probably can't convince them: https://youtu.be/JVkkLDAm8I4?t=120

>>734855598

But weed can be used as rope, paper and loads of other crap too.

>>734855581
They have restricted a ton of weapons without a problem and it's still constitution. It has to say that it can't be changed otherwise it's free game

>>734855614
go to 2 minutes in.

Own guns, whatever, but fuck off with that "My guns will protect me from ISIS" bullshit. Your a conservafag who has a small penis and small brain so you buy large guns to protect yourself from a group of crazy people in 3rd world countries thousands of miles away. Just go get a job, contribute something to society, and quit trying to convince people ISIS is a bigger threat than a 16 year old with a 9mm

>>734855656
I'm all for the legalization of weed actually. Damn lobbyists

>>734855598
They're illegal simply because the government made them illegal, people still consume them because they choose to, the only difference is as well as potential side effects/problems associated with taking the drugs the users also add a burden to the criminal justice system.

A government will never stop people doing what they wish to but a lot of them sink a fuckton of money into doing so.

>>734855753
>mentions ISIS and third world 3 times
>thinks OP is the one with a fixation

>>734855826
Correct but some are harmful and that's why the have been deemed illegal. I don't agree with everything they do as should most people but to do away with the program would be disastrous because companies will use those products to make their products cheaper or more addicting

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>>734855661
Well I have to disagree, way to go avoiding what about hunters etc but thats cool, for a generation at least I do not have to worry about SCOTUS agreeing with your interpretation but thanks for the semi debate

>>734855980
I've not once mentioned commercial use or sale, I'm talking about personal consumption - ie: micromanagement

>>734856047
This really isn't an agree or disagree argument. The constitution is written that way in order to allow these aspects to happen. So some day you could be stuck with a .22 and that would be completely legal.

>>734847870
That wasn't me.

>>734847917
I didn't say they have no purpose.
I said their purpose is destruction.
They are made to do that.
For better or worse, that's what they do.

Not build houses like hammers or move people from one place to another like cars.

>>734856150
Oh for drugs like weed. I agree on that but it's do to some company making money off of it being illegal is why it's illegal so it always comes back to commercial use. Like how if heroin was legal the drug companies would lose money on prescriptions to oxycotton

>>734855905
Actually OP and his fellow gun fags seem to be the ones fixated on ISIS. They all hope some shit breaks out in from of them so they get their chance to be Rambo when actually they'd just shit their pants and not hit anything. All these gun fags keep telling people they will be killed since they don't own guns, but cops and people with guns get killed everyday. Must just be bad shots

>>734846237
>how can I explain to these leftist cucks that guns have nothing to do with shootings

Trying to argue that mass shootings have nothing to do with guns is like trying to argue that rape has nothing to do with sex. You aren't going to get too far, because it's demonstrably untrue.

Of course mass shootings have to do with guns. If there weren't guns, there wouldn't be mass shootings.

But that doesn't mean guns are the root cause of the problem, they're just the means by which the problem is being expressed.

If you take guns away, the real problem will still be there, it will just be expressed differently.
England is a perfect example of this. They have far stricter gun laws in the US, so this sort of terrorism isn't expressed as a mass shooting, it's a bombing at a concert, or driving a van into pedestrians and stabbing a bunch of people.

Trying to attack the problem of terrorism and poor mental health support by banning guns is just treating a symptom, not the actual disease.

>>734856344
>There he goes again

>>734846237
If you're so incapable that you are coming to /b/ for help then you should just keep your mouth shut.

Seriously. The last thing that gun rights advocates need is another dipshit with a loud mouth. Instead you should donate to the NRA.

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>>734856154
even if that day came, we have always grandfathered in existing arms in even the most draconian of bans, My trust owns everything I have and in FL trusts live for 360 years, long after me or my kids will care but grandfathered regardless.

>>734856344

They act as if the ISIS aren't already fighting people with guns.

>>734856454
Yep that's correct. But no new sales of guns would happen.

>>734856471
Yeah against other muslims

>>734854553
Which the Supreme Court ruled that it referred to the common weapons of the time. I.e. The scary AR-15

>>734856307
You are correct and to come back full circle being a Liberal encompasses reducing this level of regulation on personal life, there is a whole plethora of readily grown plants/manufactured substances which have provided humanity with a range of desired effects which are illegal to personally grow/produce and consume simply because the government deems it so.

>>734856678
And? That would still be legal

>>734856619
Bullshit, no legal and or registered sales of guns would occur. Thinking that making something illegal stops it occurring is pants on head retarded.

>>734856707
Why is that a liberal thing when companies are the ones lobbying against it? Over 60% of the population wants weed legalized so that's both libs and cons

>>734856792
Where talking about the legal market not the black market here. Yeah duh they will still be sold illegally

>>734853021
Actually there is a pretty solid correlation between race and gun violence as well as poverty and gun violence.

But that's none of my business.

>>734846531
sanders is for gun rights you twat

>>734856660

Right. and the kurds. Still heavily armed assholes, with a lot more experience killing people than your average america.

>>734856762
Tell that to the California or New York State government

>>734857090
Weird they got those weapons from the US through the Saudis or directly from the US

>>734857182
For what? Its completely legal to ban weapons per state

>>734857087
All guns? Or just the ones he thinks are okay?

There are plenty of dems who are willing to let hunters keep their shotguns, for now. But that's not the same as being pro 2A.