Religious folks, gather round. Answer this: Why do you believe

>>733978113
>Why do you believe in God?

Everything in the universe is causal, that much can be observed. The scientists who tell us the universe is causal will, in the same breath, say that it spontaneously came into existence *without* cause. That pisses me off. Seeing how everything is causal, I feel that the universe cannot exist without the influence of an outside force.

>>733978369
The "something from nothing" line is a fabulously popular strawman.

Nobody is suggesting that that is how things happened.
"Something from nothing" is a very poor interpretation of just one scientific hypothesis (the big bang hypothesis) for how the current universe came to be.

The big bang hypothesis describes a "bang", not where the matter for that bang came from. And it certainly doesn't suggest that it just spontaneously popped into existence from nowhere.

It may surprise you to learn that a Roman Catholic priest first postulated the Big Bang Theory. Father Lemaitre was a physicist.

Regardless, the natural state of the universe is nothing. It's clear that the super particle and the laws that govern the universe came from somewhere. It's a created universe. Now you can use any religion you like to explain the power that created it. It's too big of an ask to expect mankind to be able to provide all the details of the mind behind creation but SOMETHING is behind it. Everything after that is just a journey towards trying to see the true face of God.

>>733979248
How is it a strawman? And the question of where the matter came from remains unanswered. It's not like matter can have existed eternally, waiting for the big bang to happen.

Two universal laws have been observed:

1. There is no new mass/energy coming into existence anywhere in the universe, and every bit of that original mass/energy is still here.

2. Every time something happens (an event takes place), some of the energy becomes unavailable.

The First Law tells us that matter (mass/energy) can be changed, but can neither be created nor destroyed. The Second Law tells us that all phenomena (mass/energy) continually proceed to lower levels of usefulness.

In simple terms, every cause must be at least as great as the effect that it produces—and will, in reality, produce an effect that is less than the cause. That is, any effect must have a greater cause.

When this universal law is traced backwards, one is faced again with the possibility that there is an ongoing chain of ever-decreasing effects, resulting from an infinite chain of nonprimary ever-increasing causes. However, what appears more probable is the existence of an uncaused Source, an omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, and Primary, First Cause.

>>733979816
t. Thomas Aquinas

Or, maybe, there's an explanation that we have not yet thought of, that doesn't require an omnipotent God.

Why does God get to be the eternal First Cause? It could even more easily be Space - considering that that doesn't have to be omniscient or omnipotent. Everything could have just, well, always been here in one form or another.

>>733979816
Or once entropy creates equilibrium, it could cause great crunch, in which the universe collapses to a single point, creating another big bang.

I'm just glad you're not posting that pic of the crying bitch from Neverending Story every time you do this thread. Tired of that pic.

>>733978113

>Answer this: Why do you believe in God?

Lack of a proper education.

>>733980142
That's what I personally think is most likely. And this continues infinitely, each time crunching back to something approaching zero entropy.

I'm really more of a agnostic thesist now, but to put it simply I was raised to believe it. After years of questing I honestly can't come up with an answer. Family and friends that are religious generally see me as a bad Christian and a non believer which is bs because I believe in God but also admit I could be wrong. I sweat atheists cam be edgy but nothing is more stubborn then an in denial religious person.

>>733979816

>some of the energy becomes unavailable.

Idiots, idiots everywhere.

.. even tho i don't believe in most of cristhinaty ( yes i spelled wrong), i think it is nice to have a connection between people through religion... but i

File: 1460134374716.jpg (1MB, 1460x2244px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1460x2244px

Believing in God =/= being religious

Probably sounds strange but there are a lot of us.

Look into Jordan Peterson OP.

>>733978113
I firmly believe in God, but I don't believe in the bible or any other religion.

>>733981050
Isn't he Christian?

>>733981050
I can respect that position a bit more.
There's always the argument that we don't know.

But believing in the major religious stories is for fools.

>>733979816
Those laws apply to what we observe today. They don't necessarily apply to whatever form our universe emerged from. To say so is conjecture at best.

Also, it's a massive strawman to say everything "came from nothing" because as someone already said, no scientist says that, for one, and two, have you ever spent so much as two seconds considering how absurd the concept of anything "coming from nothing" is? "Nothing" is, by definition, without properties, and can never exist; so the idea of anything coming from it is pure nonsense repeated by the religious in either ignorance or conscious deceit to misrepresent atheist arguments and put their untenable beliefs in a more favorable light.

>>733981050
Peterson gives no cogent arguments for belief in god; he's only able to defend religious narratives from their abstract significance to human experience.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

>>733981050
The God of Aurelius is very different to what is defined now as God

>Religious folks, gather round.
>The Bible is blablabla
but I'm not christian..

I don't know how to explain it other than its subjective. Studying Kierkegaard and reading The Shack went a long way to influencing how I feel about the subject.

I don't think there is one specific path. In a way all religions are wrong and right. I know that sounds confusing but when you study religion not from the doctrinal point of view but from how people actually live their religion you'll see what I mean.

A religion doesn't make a person moral or immoral. It's usually the other way around. How a person practices their religion or spiritually specifically mirrors their internal selves. That's why I don't think getting rid of religion will get rid of things atheist are so proud of proclaiming. People will just express the same things through a different avenue.

Ultimately, believing in the Devine is simply being authentic to myself. I feel it to be true. I can't provide you with iron clad deductive reasoning on the matter but I think that would miss the point. I can talk about why but it doesn't matter if you don't feel it internally.

Having faith I think is like being in love. When you are in love the person is the most beautiful person to you, objectively is not true of course but it's the feeling itself that is important.

Just think about it a bit. How many choices do you make on a daily that aren't 100% sure? Aren't the most uncertain choices the most meaningful ones precisely because you're taking a chance?

File: 1494108883803.jpg (593KB, 2048x1536px) Image search: [Google]

593KB, 2048x1536px

If God is real who created God
And whatever created that God really then is God and who created that God

>>733982596
so if you're not religious then why did you join the gathering?

>>733978113
I truly do believe in God
Raised on a mixture of folk Catholiscm and Voudou

I continue to believe in God because it makes sense to me, as I have always been brought up with the notion of a Divine Being.
I have no scientific evidence. I believe that I have seen direct examples of a God's intervention, but this could be false equivalency based on my aforementioned beliefs of a Divine Creator. It is still hard to doubt when I see direct results after performing or participating in a ritual. I have seen things that go past human's ability to deceive, and have concluded that a more powerful supernatural force is responsible.
I do not necessarily follow a doctrine of strict religion other than rituals that date back hundreds of years. As my religion is an amalgam, I cannot adhere strictly to any code.

>>733982638
Not OP but I get religion now thank you anon

>>733979510
A lot of monks and priests were scientists because they were part of the elite few that were literate. And a lot of them got a lot of shit for their science.

>>733982798
That was easy, back in the days where I would take philosophy classes and go to discussion groups I'd get blank stares, nods, and then they'd just go on as if I didn't say anything.

>>733982691
I am religious tho. Just don't know why we have to talk about the bible.

>>733983084
maybe you're more articulate through this medium
or maybe you were talking to mongoloids
either way your point was clear and concise

>>733983247
>don't know why we have to talk about the bible
Are you a muslim? Gospel is a Word of God. Qur'an confirmed it so.

>>733979816
Conservation of energy is one of the laws of physics. But if a universe doesn't exist then why would the laws of physics apply to that nothingness? Laws of physics can only apply to a universe once that universe has already come into being.

Not saying I believe in the "something from nothing" spiel, but your argument puts the cart before the horse, so to speak.

>>733983347
no I am not. also not a jew.

>>733983338
Good point. I'd rather think it was that I was taking to dence mf'ers. That and I been told I'm pretty good at explaining things, even verbally.

>>733983494
Why are you being so mysterious? Just tell us what you are.

Well the catholic traditions in my country keep it together. Religion is a big part of patriotism

>>733983494
>>733983663
Maybe he's just making the point that there is a treasure trove of religious and mystical writings worth looking into. Plus the bible is just one conception of the Devine

>>733978113
The rituals and cultural constants give me comfort and a sense of connectedness to something ancient and transcendent.
Most religious people aren't fundamentalists, so muh Bible isn't scientific doesn't work as an argument. Personally, I don't even really believe in an interventionist God.

https://youtu.be/f-wWBGo6a2w

>>733983926
>Maybe he's just making the point that there is a treasure trove of religious and mystical writings worth looking into.
Apparently they are taboo according to you fags that love to LARP illerminaty.

Because of miracles, the fact that Jesus was a historical figure outside of the bible

>>733978113

1) because they were raised into religion and have low self-esteem so they have to feel like they have a "strong opinion" on something in order not to feel lesser, hence they'll never question said beliefs

2) they're mortified of death and the fact that humanity is a spec of dust compared to the rest of the universe

3) they use religion as psychological relief to either rationalize or moralize things in their lives

have your pick

>>733982464
>abstract significance to human experience
Isn't that what religion is to most rational religious people?
>>733982638
Fantastic post
>>733983896
Hello Mathieu Kowalski

>>733984100
>miracles
(You)

>>733978369
God came in existence without a cause. Doesnt that pisses you off ?
But if you believe that God has not a "start", and that he exists... by its very existence "nearly everything" has a cause. God hasn't in this case.

>>733984208
Proves my point that how one lives their religion mirrors their internal self

>>733978113
I believe in a god because it makes sense to me. I'm not really a "The bible is all knowing" kinda guy. I don't know if there is a god, but the fact that the universe is just so finely tuned it seems almost completely constructed for life to exist.

I don't believe in creationism cause that shit is idiotic. Evolution baby. I think that SOMETHING, I dont know what, created the universe.

>>733984771
>Doesnt that pisses you off ?
Why it should?
Limiting God to logic? Is that what you think God is? Limited?

>>733984921
except its not finely tuned

>>733984208
Number 1 reminds me of people shitting on agnostics because "they're fence sitters who can't just pick a side and stick to it," as if having an opinion on something they can't really be sure they know anything about is somehow nobler than just admitting nobody knows shit about shit that might exist outside our universe. Better to fling shit at each other over which sky daddy we believe exists or doesn't.

>>733985704
agnosticism is a pussy opinion though. you might not be sure that a god exists or not, but you are sure that religious institution do exist and you know what religion is being used for and has been for so many years.

it's not about facing god, but rather about facing the conditions that create and foster religion. it's about the why, not the if.

>>733984921
If the universe were finely tuned for life, shouldn't we be seeing a hell of a lot more life in it? One planet so far out of the entire observable universe we have seen so far having life is hardly enough to say that the universe exists for the sake of housing life, no?

>>733984486
>Isn't that what religion is to most rational religious people?

The problem, which ought to be obvious, is that you can find that (in better forms often times) in literature without attaching bronze-age moral theory and unsubstantiated "supernatural" claims...

Religion is, at its best, unnecessary; and at its worst, the most dangerous brand of ideological poison we've ever conceived.

>>733986125
What the fuck are you talking about? God existing or not and the sociological impact of religion(s) are entirely different matters. Saying "I believe god(s) exists" or "I don't believe god(s) exist" does not inherently imply shit about any religion. Quit trying to say dumb shit to sound deep.

I believe in god because there have been moments In life where I should have been completely fucked and I escaped almost unscathed. I have a hard time believing that wth the amount of times it's happened to me that there hasn't been some sort of divine intervention there. People always argue that if god was real why doesn't he stop suffering like the starving kids in Africa. I always see it as he gave us the tools to do it. If the world wanted to To we could all get together and end hunger suffering. But people are to busy getting offended at bathrooms and too greedy to care about anyone else. I feel like god intervenes slightly. He gives us the ability and tools, the shows us path. It comes down to the old "you can lead a horse to water but can't force it to drink type deal. Another thing I can't wrap my head around is the fact that life force just ends. Consciousness just poof gone. Maybe I refuse to believe it. I don't know I guess I'll find out. But for now I'm gonna live my life in a way I'm proud of. Do I sin? Yeah I do. Do I think god will really forgive me for all of them? Honestly no. I might end up suffering for eternity for some of the things I've done. But again I could just disappear. I always see god as a guide trying to show me A simple path. And sometimes I choose the oThe with thorns and glass. I hope he's real. I believe in him, I hope the small part of me that doubts is wrong.

>>733986463
How does one become wise like you? I will not argue with your post because naivety of it hurts me just by looking at it. How will other literature enforce morals without authority and power of God?

File: C2kUsWJUkAEWzFA.jpg (23KB, 400x257px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 400x257px

>>733978113
I'M A HEBREW ISRAELITE ASK ME ANYTHING

"The Ethiopians make their gods black and snub-nosed. The Threacians make them blue eyed and red haired. And if horses and oxen or lions had hands, and could paint with their hands, and create works of art as men do, horses would paint the gods in the forms of horses and oxen like oxen"

>>733978113
What if god was one of us?

>>733978113
Because our existence can not be an accident

>>733986463
You say that as though literally any other life that arises anywhere else in this or other universes wouldn't also have concepts of Gods and religions. I hardly think that whatever life may have already come and gone before us wouldn't be just as likely to have their own thoughts about religion, spirituality and whatever other metaphysical mumbo jumbo we can argue about.

Also, wouldn't the "best case" for any specific religion be for it to be true? If so then it would be retarded to say it's "unnecessary at best."

Not saying that I think any of our current religions actually ARE true, just saying you have shitty critical thinking faculties to say stuff like that.

>>733978369
I like to call god source. It's the Creation life force energy that is in everything. Y? because everything is still connected to source we're just existing within one dimension because this reality isn't solid. The bible doesn't explain it well and is also misinterpreted. Ask indigenous people who believe the old teachings from thousands of years ago, they understand.

File: catholism.jpg (338KB, 2560x1440px) Image search: [Google]

338KB, 2560x1440px

because of the astrological argument, because the universe began to exist, it has a cause.

>>733978113
Because without accepting the belief of some greater power or workings, you will never ever be able to answer the question why? Why does all this stuff in the universe even exist? What decided to make all our shit the way it is? Stop pretending like you'll ever understand these questions. You seem to think you're so smart because you've read some things on the internet but the reality is it doesn't matter what we believe or don't believe we will never truly be smart

>>733978113
Over the years a lot of things have come into my view. I would very much sit here and argue with you, in general...that things are interconnected and that there really are not coincidences but more of a complex balance.

And we could go on but you really cant show someone something they haven't seen.

hows that?

>>733987184
do do do dooooooo

I believe because there's a certain happiness I feel in the presence of the Lord. I've been married for 17 years now, I have 7 kids and I couldn't be happier. But the happiness I get from playing with my children or loving my wife doesn't quite match the joy I get in His presence. I'm Catholic, so mass every Sunday is required, but I'd still go if it wasn't. The feeling I get receiving the Eucharist is like a drug. It's an intense wave of good vibes n' stuff. My wife and kids feel the same thing too. I sin. But when I leave the confessional I feel amazing. I've been incredibly blessed through my entire life to live richly in faith and love. That's not chance.

>>733987948
Cept for the pope maybe in Rome

Eh, I don't really believe in a 'god' as such, I'm not a fan of the traditional entity ruling upon from above kind of approach
I do believe there is a higher force at work though - not necessarily benevolent or evil; just existing
I also believe that if there is a conceptual force/god that we wouldn't be able to comprehend it - how could we? We would be infinitely stupid and immature to the being and who is able to say that 'god' made us on purpose?
Idk, I'm struggling to explain it concisely cause I've just woke up and feel groggy as shite but those are my thoughts kiddas

>>733988409
>Eh

Fuck off you fuckin canook

>>733978113
because they've been told to believe in god
if they were told to believe in science, they'd believe in it
"belief" qualitatively is on a level of lack of evidence and hearsay, so a person can believe in anything, including quantum equations and genetics, if he doesn't know what they mean actually, in practice

>>733986835
translation: I can't refute what you said so I'll just mock you

I'm surprised you didn't throw a "fedora" in there too, dumbass

>>733986463
>The problem, which ought to be obvious, is that you can find that (in better forms often times) in literature
That's debatable and highly subjective. Besides, that's putting aside that most western literature is highly influenced by the Bible.
>without attaching bronze-age moral theory
I disagree. Moral lessons can sometimes be better understood in a historical or fantasy context.
>unsubstantiated "supernatural" claims...
Again, that's attributing fundamentalism to all believers.

>>733987349
That was nonsense. That ideas about god(s) are common and that the best possible scenario for a religion is for it to be true doesn't in any way then follow that any of them ARE true.

>>733978113
>>>/pol/

>>733978113
>critical thinking

Even the best critical thinkers lose their ability when their golden cow comes under attack.

The golden cow being anything, from religion, to political things, so no its not only on religion. In fact political things is an even bigger way to make people throw logic and reason out the window. No matter which side of the political spectrum youre on, your fellow supporters have a set of science they deny and science they embrace. So all you have to do is look at the science denied by the opposite supporters to know this is true. (ie left wingers tend to dispute GMOs and embrace climate change, right wingers tend to dispute climate change and embrace GMOs) as examples. The science is equally sound in all those fields but the moment it becomes a political issue its immediately group up and believe what peers say.

As IQ and education go up rates of religion go down, yes, but they dont go to zero.

Tl;dr youre not going to get a good answer. But the religious here are also not necessarily stupid or lack critical thinking skills.

>>733982852
This.

Thats what they did in monasteries. They read.

>>733978113
nice bait.

>>733988857
Why didn't you answer my question? How are morals enforced without authority or power of God? I don't negate the possibility that you guys have good intentions with your anti-theistic holy war but you also shouldn't negate the possibility that maybe you are blind as a mole and have zero awareness about a true nature of man.

File: Russell_in_1938.jpg (10KB, 220x225px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 220x225px

>>733978369
Come here boy and let me tell you about causality

>>733989284
are you high

>>733978369
I didn't know that, and I still don't.
>>733984921
No. Deserts are fairly non-habbitable places. So are tundras, deep oceans. It's not finely tuned. It'd be a steady temperature/humidity/wave function/weather and it's not. It just happened.

>>733989407
I'm high on God's presence. Are you too dumb to answer the question? How do you enforce morals without authority and power of God?

>>733984953
God has to be limited to a logic, even if it is
I as God do this and I do it. That is I in some way go from point A to point B. You're a retard.

>>733989537
a simple yes would have worked

>>733988924
>That's debatable and highly subjective. Besides, that's putting aside that most western literature is highly influenced by the Bible.
Not really. If something supposedly dictated by the ultimate creator of the universe can easily be improved upon, it tends to discredit its supposed origins...

Also, literature comes from other cultures too.

>I disagree. Moral lessons can sometimes be better understood in a historical or fantasy context.
>implying there isn't better fantasy than the Bible with better moral lessons

>Again, that's attributing fundamentalism to all believers.

Nearly all believers are fundamentalists to some degree.Ask 100 Christians, Muslims, or Jews if they believe Yahweh to be a metaphor or a real being and see what they say...

>>733986822
I can save you, but I can't move you to help a person?

>>733987184
I exist as a normal human being

>>733989284
The guy who asked if you were high isn't me...

Morality can be reduced to two things: empathy and reciprocity, both of which come from US as thinking, feeling creatures capable of imagination, honest self-reflection, and suffering. I don't need a god to tell me what suffering is...

Only abject dumb shits like yourself try to reduce morality to "it's good cuz muh god says so" which is completely rationally bankrupt.

>>733978113
Pascal's wager

>>733978113
I have to ask, since nobody really can answer to this: is there a proof of God by its negative, Satan?

I mean, possession cases are well-documented and some evade scientifical logic. Why doesn't it serve as an empirical proof and why can't I find anyone who's already written on it???

>>733989818
NINE ELEVEN

>>733989537
Social instincts.
We are a weak but smart animal. We need to work together to survive bears and catch the deer.

Its a natural instinct we know deeply without thinking that co-operation is a pretty good idea. You share give others things and treat them well, and they give you things and treat you well.

Kill that guy and youll piss off those guys and theyll kill you. Steal thing thing and the others will isolate you and mistrust you and wont give you food and stuff anymore. Also a matter of diplomacy and relationship building to see whos coming to your defence when youre in danger.

We know all of these things as an instinct. No God needed.

Guess what mang, i dont believe in god one IOTA. I also do volunteer work, donate to charity, and im extremely nice to people.

No cosmic fly swatter needed, it feels better to help than it does to hog. We are literally built that way.

>>733989847
possibly

>>733988472
I'm english you fucking troglodyte
I said eh to imply my uncertainty to the subject
Like saying meh but eh instead tard

>>733989659
a simple "I don't know" would have worked
Lower your ego a bit. Your coming off as flamboyant cocksucker.

Oh look another flamboyant gayboy egomaniac who can't accept the possibility that there might be entity who is greater than him. But please do go on and keep fighting God like you are a match for him.

>>733989847
Link me some possession cases that are so convincing anon, sounds interesting

File: 1024x1024.jpg (71KB, 1024x647px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 1024x647px

>>733989818
>still thinking Pascal's Wager is anywhere near valid

>>733990096
Hey dumbass, in case you didn't notice: again, that guy's not me.

See >>733989812

>>733990096
you're a little too pristine for my taste, I don't see you handling much.

>>733989665
>supposedly dictated by the ultimate creator
That's only Muslims who believe that. Afaik, even fundamentalist Christians think that the Bible was divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit, not dictated.
>implying there isn't better fantasy than the Bible with better moral lessons
Chances are, those stories are highly influenced by biblical stories.
>Ask 100 Christians, Muslims, or Jews if they believe Yahweh to be a metaphor or a real being and see what they say...
Yahweh is the Christian name for God. It's El/Elohim and Allah for Jews and Muslims, respectively.
There's a lot of space to believe in something between a pure metaphor and a magic sky daddy. Most people are in that middle ground, and sussing out exactly what that means is one of the primary goals of most serious theists.

>>733989981
>Kill that guy and youll piss off those guys and theyll kill you.
How do you know the other guys give two shits about the guy that was killed?
>Steal thing thing and the others will isolate you and mistrust you and wont give you food and stuff anymore. With if you share the loot with the others?
You don't think things thoroughly through as you think you are.

>>733990116
The Anneliese Michel one is the most known.

But exorcists who can tell they saw a possession case at least once in their life will say it's truly supernatural, and I think that with all the Vatican screenings to perform the Roman ritual, it's something that's very closely looked at.

>>733989981
I think this was well said even if I disagree a little.

>>733978113
The short answer is that we know nothing. It very well may be that there is no God, god, alien force that created us a science project, or otherwise. It very well may be that our entire existence is a hoax. It very well may be that there is no after life, that after this Its all over. Its also just as probable that there is a higher power that knows all and isn't a human, is better than and watches over all humans. Maybe we're the gods, living out some dark fantasy of multiple little integers, as gods feel only the weight if infinity. Whatever the case, no man can say that they know any of these things true as fact. As a christian, I choose to believe and cast my lot into this interpretation, rather than a polytheistic of atheistic view, because its objectively the happiest, easiest one. I don't claim I'm right, I don't claim you're wrong. I do claim that there is something more than us or even our galaxy, there's more than our disputes about belief. Besides, why worry about why we're when we should worry about being able to stay here? There are more pressing matters than religious disputes going on.

>>733978113
Mostly because I was culturally brainwashed into it by parents, family and cultural norms.

>>733978113

Ps19:1-4
The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
3 There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

>>733978113
Seems like you believe god = Christianity.
You seem to have forgotten a few faiths there fella.

To which end - god starts off as explaining the unknown, then as an additional useful for me of power and control, and finally because no one starts with a blank canvas; they're all influenced by what they grew up with.

File: 1492216439882.jpg (29KB, 480x640px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 480x640px

>>733990117

>>733983494
You are a lizard

>>733989847
Does anyone here know?

>>733990856
Is anyone here god?

>>733990856
It's like fight club. I've said too much already.

File: flag_philippines.png (36KB, 780x439px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 780x439px

>>733978113
>>733990694

>>733990856
Satan is not a negative to God. God has no equal and is above everything. Satan is just God's Creation just as everything else.

>>733990998
Are you the one that replied possibly? Fuck you

>>733989847
Satan is not the opposite of God.

God created lucifer and God created evil

>>733990327
>That's only Muslims who believe that. Afaik, even fundamentalist Christians think that the Bible was divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit, not dictated.

"Divinely inspired" is a nice way of saying totally made up.

>Chances are, those stories are highly influenced by biblical stories.

No, not all of them. See Aesop's Fables or the many great fantasy stories of cultures other than modern Western...

>There's a lot of space to believe in something between a pure metaphor and a magic sky daddy. Most people are in that middle ground, and sussing out exactly what that means is one of the primary goals of most serious theists.

Nonsense. Either god is a real entity who said and did the things in the Bible, or the Bible is wrong. Something is either concretely, objectively real or not, and you can explore concepts of god much better without unnecessarily limiting your thought to the bounds of the framework of a specific religion.

>>733991057
>>733991085

Yeah but that's not what I was saying.

If you can prove Satan exists by the possession cases, and given Satan is a consequence of God, then by transitivity God exists.

File: 76f.png (26KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 640x480px

>>733990717

>>733991057
Doesn't that depend on who's even book you've been sold? A bit like supporters of sports teams all think theirs is the best.
Best god in show

File: 1490306772078.jpg (916KB, 1280x751px) Image search: [Google]

916KB, 1280x751px

>>733991073
Well do you want a tinfoil thread? Because thats how you get a tinfoil thread.

>>733991170
Thats bad logic. Saying there is darkness does not be there has to be light.

>>733991170
>possession cases
I'm one of the guy who you're replying to and just be advised that a possession might be just a mental illness. Satan in nature is a deceiver so I don't think he's prone to showing off in openly like that.

>>733990410
Psychology class was a very long time ago, and im exhausted. Probably a bit of bs in there and/or incomplete thoughts.

>>733978369
That's just pushing the chain of causality back one more step. What was the cause of God? I know, you'll say "He was uncaused". But if the concept of "uncausedness" is logically coherent, who's to say the universe wasn't "uncaused".

>>733991222
Is that the gnostics that believe in two gods, one good and one evil ?

>>733991425
>talking like you're sure such an entity exists at all

>>733991537
Thats why the Bible starts with "In the beginning, GOD"

>>733991666
Satan agrees

>>733991421
You're reducing my argument here. God created angels, Satan is a fallen angel, if Satan exists then by transitivity God exists since he created him.

Where's the bad logic?

>>733991425
Yeah, but the Vatican scrutinizes very closely these kind of allegations and some are real possession cases. Many may be mental illnesses of course.

>>733991666
And why should I believe that that particular book is the one true word of God, as opposed to any of the countless other books making that claim?

>>733991666
checked

>>733991538
I'm talking about a whole bookshop here. Hundreds of the buggers.

>>733991756
If the universe exists then God created it.

>>733991756
>Vatican scrutinizes very closely these kind of allegations and some are real possession cases.
I believe them and be advised that I'm a muslim. But I also know that Satan and his army are sneaky. And he loves to hide exactly because of the reasons in your first question. As soon as Satan's cover is busted people turn to God.

>>733991882
Yep I forgot about all the religions that don't have only two gods. But they don't matter though

>>733992024
http://www.religionfacts.com/big-religion-chart

>>733991986
Yes I know this and I like that I'm preaching to the choir.

I'd just like to find a book that proves the existence of God by the existence of Satan.

>>733991946
If no humans exist to believe, does god still exist? Because giraffes and crocodiles sure dont have faith.

>>733991764
Besides starting out with solving the original causality problem literally in the first sentance, it is because the Bible is internally consistent, and the only religion where God offers a way to him vs. man becoming right with God. Salvation is gift from God paid in full. All man has to do is accept it.


ALL other religions have strings atrached saying man has to do this or that.

>>733989878
Seven-Eleven

>>733992146
or maybe they do and thats why they submit

Ok #1 I do believe in all God's from a scientific perspective but it's not entirely proven.
#2 the big bang happened (according to many theories) by a dimension made of anti matter colliding with a dimension composed of matter. Our dimension/universe was the result.
#3 in these theories scientists postulate there are an infinite number of dimensions with laws of physics that can be completely different from ours.
#4 if there truly are infinite dimensions then all Gods must exist in different dimensions.
#5 to think their influence cannot reach us through trans dimensional contact seems illogical

>>733991946
This sentance was to point out how this
>>733991756 sentance doesnt solve the issue.

>>733992253
Sounds like someone wants a walk in the lions den, or the gorilla enclosure

>>733992235
Keith Urban?

>>733990402
Nice one anon, I'll look into it

>>733992347
to nature.

>>733992348
Urbane Guerrilla

>>733992411
Cheers! Kampai!

>>733992348
There's a start

>>733978113
I lived in a Monastery in Greece for 4 months. Vadopaedi, on Mt. Athos. Oldest existing Orthodox monasteries in the world there, ruins and excavations leading all the way to the 3rd or 4th century. The Garden of Mary. There was some shit that happened there that couldn't be explained without "God made it happen". The biggest one was a monk who died high up in the mountains, in his own Skete - a place of isolation for monks who iwsh to pray alone. He'd come down one a month, get supplies, go back up. He didn't come down one month, and after a week of him missing, they went to check on him. He had died, and from the dust and amount of food left, he'd been dead for at least 3 weeks. Rigor mortis hadn't set in. He didn't smell. He hadn't started to rot until they found him, the explanation being that Mary didn't want a devout man to rot alone, so he could have his proper funeral. Crazy shit.

>>733992346
And you're not making sense at all. This is a simple argument, how can't you understand it?

If I make a chair and show you said chair, saying 'I made it' this also proves that I existed at least long enough to make the chair. That's all.

>>733992561
People don't rot up mountains - everyone knows that.

>>733992223
>the Bible is internally consistent
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/number.html

>>733991277
You're weird

>>733992562
Are you a chair too? Or are you a too of some sort?

>>733992658
That's only if you're frozen. Not dead in a building where it's about 70 degrees.

>>733992736
Fuck you

>>733992736
Tool dammit, tool.

>>733992762
I'm a different anon by the way. Just having a dig. Yolo lol lol

>>733992311
>#4 if there truly are infinite dimensions then all Gods must exist in different dimensions.

This is where your logic breaks down. First off, considering that there are many different and mutually exclusive definitions of god(s) (of course none of them having good reason to believe) it depends what type of god you're talking about.

If it's some sort of "beyond the universe" "creates universes" type of god then no, it doesn't necessarily exist somewhere in infinite universes because by definition it would be outside of those universes and it either created some of them or not.

If on the other hand it's a lower-tier god which has, for instance, reality-warping capabilities but still exists entirely WITHIN a universe, then sure, that could be true.

You're also making quite the conjecture in saying "everything is possible" within these universes. That isn't what scientists in theoretical physics say at all. They say that all universes possible WITHIN BOUNDS OF THE FUNDAMENTAL LAWS OF PHYSICS may be real, or even that all possible universes with a logically consistent mathematical structure are real at the most extreme, but anything which violates mathematics and logic can't be concretely real.

>>733992756
Humidity plays the major part

>>733992562
>And you're not making sense at all. This is a simple argument, how can't you understand it?

If satan exists then God created satan
If the universe exists then God created the universe

Both are claims and must be solved by inductive reasoning, because you cannot physically talk to God in conversation.

>If I make a chair and show you said chair, saying 'I made it' this also proves that I existed at least long enough to make the chair. That's all.

I have direct confirmation from you. Do you habe direct confirmation from God other than the Bible?

>>733992731
You're simple. maybe even a gril

>>733992561
So we're back to 'don't understand therefore god'? Sounds like the good old volcano days. #MVGA

>>733982638
Your position supposes that you don't exist outside or yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

>>733992959
>If the universe exists then God created the universe
This is a different and unrelated claim. This is unwarranted to include it in mine.

Come on, I just want to know if someone ever wrote on the proof of God by the proof of Satan is that too much to ask???

>>733992681
Show me a contradiction, not a link.

>>733991537
It really isn't what he is saying from the material universe the laws require things to have a cause, this doesn't apply to things outside the material universe.

>>733993111
Lots of people. They even named themselves after popular demons so that their works would hopefully not go unnoticed.

>>733993111
Have you read 'Satan therefore God'?
Really interesting book

>>733993224
What? Who?

Oh you're being cryptic again. Thanks for nothing I guess.

>>733993286
Which I made up

>>733993111
Where is the proof for satan? "Possesed" people?

I bet there are more confirmed people who believe in God than confirmed possesed people. Even then, what metaphysical proof is "yes this person had a demon". Did yoh see the demon in physical body? Did it posses a herd of pigs to jump off a cliff? :^)

>>733993290
Read a fucking book you child. Im not your personal assistant

>>733992899
Uhh actually many scientists theorize that physical laws can and do break down outside our dimension. For example gravity is a physical constant in our dimension. However magnetism is a stronger force. Many multidimensional theorists suggest this is because of our dimension's proximity to other dimensions made entirely of gravitons and dimensions made literally of magnetism. In those dimensions both gravity and magnetism could have vastly different spectrums of power compared to ours. However I'd like to stat I do not believe in a creator deity of our dimension.

>>733993320
Fucking kek

>>733992899
God exists outside spacetime.

Jocular manboobs

>>733993383
You misunderstand. That's all based on laws within our universe, so in a quantum-mechanical "many worlds" type of multiverse, the same laws would apply in all those other timelines.

In an ultimate "mathematical" multiverse, however, anything with consistent logical structure would be just as concretely real as our universe.

>>733993363
Well, the question is which book mentions that kind of proof.

You don't need to be rude.

>>733992899
>but anything which violates mathematics and logic can't be concretely real
this thread is about God
God is not limited by anything

>>733993478
Again, if it's the kind of god defined as "outside time and space", which is it's own brand of nonsense, then even the most broad mathematical multiverse wouldn't guarantee such a being's existence, since according to you, he would be "outside" of it.

>>733993567
I want to. Your lack of passion for research is offensive. You're shit.

>>733993610
>not limited by logic, cuz my sad attempt at special pleading and bad logical definitions say so

That's some high-quality bullshit, anon.

File: IMG_7183.jpg (19KB, 267x200px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 267x200px

Like you'd know most people that believe in god usually do so because they grew up with that from their parents and so on. Luckily I matured and was smart enough to make my own decision and inevitably came to the conclusion that all religions are bullshit though I suppose they help make it easy on people's lives to not have any thought/questions about this and keep living their simple predestined normie plan.

Btw literal shit > Islam

>>733978113
Reason and logic by themselves do not allow you to know or conclude anything. To know anything you must make decisions about what you will believe. These decisions about what to believe are simply choices. They may be supported by evidence, but there is no evidence which will cause a belief to be undeniable.

To know anything at all you must chose to believe your senses, or your reason, or evidence, or the witness of other people. All of these sources have limitations and will all fail to force any given conclusion. To make a conclusion requires decisions about which sources you chose to believe.

How do you know that anything exists at all? How can you know anything? Why do we trust the reports of historians or scientists or anyone?

Existence itself is irrational. Non-existence is also irrational.

The existence of matter is equally as rational or non-rational as the existence of consciousness. It is not more rational to believe matter existed before consciousness; or consciousness before matter. It is not rational that either exist at all. But the fact we are dealing with is that we do exist as both matter and consciousness.

I believe that both matter and consciousness co-existed in eternity. I believe that eternally existing consciousness is powerful, and worked to shape and illuminate matter into the cosmic order we exist in. I believe that cosmic order of consciousness has personality and has the power of choice, and we call him God because that is how he chooses to be known. We were formed as reflections of God and given power to chose and to form our world by how our decisions interact with the existence we find ourselves in.

I don't think that you can arrive at these conclusions by reason alone. I don't believe you can arrive at any conclusion by reason alone.

I have arrived at these conclusions because they make the most sense; being able to explain and predict existence.

>>733993552
So let me see if I'm following you. You are saying he's universes are dependent on mathematical formula it's just the formulas are different than our universe's? While this could be true, changing the math of physics could have HUGE ramifications that could easily appear miraculous to beings restricted by their own sets of math.

>>733993641
Yep, I'm asking around because the question popped up in my mind and I'm too lazy to research it right now.

But you don't have the answer either so fuck you.

>>733980142
>>733980486
It has already been proven that the universe will most likely keep expanding until it reaches the great Heat Death

File: lamp.jpg (40KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 500x333px

>>733978113
Believe in God =! Christianity

In my experience, pic related is a good metaphor for God.

>God is the source of all being, the source of all light
>We are the different specs of light projected on the wall, separated from God through the shaded wall of the lamp, yet connected to him on a deep level
>Through spiritual practices one can experience this union with God firsthand and get a glimpse at the truth
>In this sense, while we are all different individuals, we also are all one, and all brothers and sisters
>Hence do onto others what you'd want to do onto yourself

that's my religion in a nutshell.

>>733993383
Yeah, but how do magnets work?

>>733978113
Don't need scientific evidence. I do what I want.

>>733993795
>facebook

Yep, fuck on and off.

>>733993640
Now you are thinking.

God created spacetime, logic, mathematics, and physics. He is not constrained by these. These are apart of a masterpiece clockwork that are the interworkings of the universe works. That is intelligent design.

>>733978113
Because i didnt ask you ?

>>733993898
If only i had the ignorance to be able to believe what i want.

>>733994045
this

>>733993926
Or, equally, it's not. Everything I see exactly as it has turned out. And if it were different then that would Ben the miracle too.
There is every chance of throwing a 6 as there is a 1 on a dice.

>>733979510
Ir is also amusing to mention that the term "Big Bang" was first applied to the theory by Fred Hoyle, who thought the theory incorrect. Hoyle later always denied that he meant the term to sound pejorative, but the contact of his original remark using the term on a radio program as he explained why the theory must be wrong make it pretty clear that he found bo0th the theory and the term ridiculous.

>>733992681
Still waiting

>>733993926
Ey, look at me, i believe in a god that is nothing nobody as ever seen or heard of with 0 reason and somehow still think im being reasonable.

>>733994094
Fucking auto-correct intelligent design

>>733994122
I also think he is a man/male

>>733986541
>religious institution that solely exist to reproduce idealistic ideology have nothing to do with said ideology

whole new level of retardation

>>733992561
how was the homo sex?

>>733993787
Again, I'm saying in a quantum-mechanical "many worlds" multiverse where every quantum-mechanical wave-function collapse results in a "splitting off" of universes into separate timelines, all of those alternate timelines still follow the same laws of physics. Look up Hugh Everett's Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum-mechanics to see more about that.

There is a higher-level multiverse, however, that has been proposed, which is one where any and all logically-consistent mathematical structures represent a real universe. So literally anything you can imagine without logical paradoxes is real.

If, as you say, something with the power to manipulate a universe's laws does so, then if that entity truly wanted us to know of its existence, it would do so in a setting where such an occurrence would be scientifically testable and indisputable, instead of, say, in an illiterate region of bronze-age Palestine a few times and then never again...

>>733978113
If you're looking for a logical, critical thinking answer then you're not going to find one. God transcends what we call logic.

If you're expecting to get an acceptable answer in a sentence or a paragraph, then you're wasting your time. Not all answers are acceptable.

If you think God is an invention of humans to control other humans, God is not although false gods can be entirely that.

This is all however based on my definition of God, which is Jehovah. What's yours?

>>733994094
Can you tell the difference between a michelangelo sculpture and a toddler with play doh?

Using logic we can establish truths and use subjective reasoning to deduce an intelligent creator.

>>733993926
Sorry anon, but that's nonsense.

God is proposed as the essential author of logic. But for this to be true, God must be sufficient for his own existence without logic. But logic (identity, non-contradiction, and excluded middle) is essential in the existence of anything. For example, the notion of an existent thing that has no identity is impossible. Therefore, for God to exist, logic must exist. Not the other way around.

>>733994271
TBH Retardation is why you come here

Made me lol out loud though

>>733979816
"An efdect must have a greater cause"
Nope! Supernova is much more powerful that it's cause faggot. Cracks in magnetars crust are much more powerful than their cause.

>>733994345
>God transcends what we call logic.

kek. see >>733994396

>>733994386
Either is an equally logical reality; to deny it doesn't make sense. The universe is infinite therefore every variation exists no matter how infinitisimal the chance

>>733994396
Point taken

However, logic is an attribute to God, and he used it to build the universe

God is loving,
God logical,
God is just,

Etc

>>733994755
B but hillary's emails
I got nothing

>>733978113
>Religious people simply believe that it was written by man on the orders/word of God

Wrong, it's said to be inspired by God and not to be the exact words of God which makes a huge difference.

On the other hand Islam claim that the koran is literally God's words.

>>733994810
jew tired?

>>733994755
So according to you the train of objectivity goes

logic -> God -> everything else

If that's the case, how did god arise out of pure logic? Couldn't the same method have been used to crate the universe without any god(s)? And of course, it should go without saying: how do you know God even exists?

>>733994309
Wait a minute just for a second can we bask in the fact that we are having an intelligent discussion about religion on /b/? Lol this never happens!

Anyway

Here is where a bit of my personal hypothesis comes in. I hypothesize that a consciousnesses belief IS the gateway between dimensions. For example the more belief in magic a consciousness has, as a group, the more it can affect our reality. So simply by questioning God we are preventing him from interacting with our universe's. I love this idea because I like to pretend I'm closing little doors so pesky good can't get in. However this is, of course, essentially hypothetical make believe.

>>733994639
Thats not true there was a definite beginning to the universe and it will end somehow someday.

File: p21547_MRMessage.png (62KB, 1280x853px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 1280x853px

>>733978113

The bible was divinely inspired by God. The only direct word of God in the bible is the word of Jesus, as he was both entirely God and entirely man.

The Old Testament is to be read with the context it's Jewish mythology and parables which is mostly irrelevant as the New Testament is the truth, however it is interesting. Orthodox bibles often totally exclude the Old Testament. Historically it came close to being entirely removed.

>What is God?
Theos means to burn in ambience Greek, or to see. The God that we experience is the energy of the impossible, and infinite essence of God.

There's an awful lot to say and it's difficult where to start. But it's also strangely simple when you understand. For me God is best experienced through divine illumination or lights.

>>733994960
like pathways in the brain

>>733994960
I've been talking shit this whole thread

It is weird though. Almost like jumping back 5 years.

>>733994966
Or not. Just because you can't imagine it doesn't make it not true, or mean that there's a need to make up God to make volcanoes great again #MVGA

Why take them so close to the edge if you are going to hold them back?

>>733994940
No.

God is logical because it is an atribute of God.

Logic is not God.

This is were Ghandi messed up. He understood that God is truth, but be flipped tbat around to say truth is God.

God is much bigger than logic or love or truth.

>>733994988
And the Quran

>>733994755
>loving
>just

those are moralizations humanity makes, why would a creator need to feel evolutionary drive emotions like love or empathy?

you make a claim that a creature outside of the realm of logic exists, but how can you know this? if you cannot even grasp his existence, any notion of you being aware of it is false

>>733993726
You're dumb as a bag of bricks aren't you? If God was limited by anything would he go by the name All-mighty?

>>733995200
but what's your proof of god's existence? how can you attribute things to him if you yourself claim he's beyond your understanding?

>>733995236
You made that name up in your funny language.
What name do baboons use?

>>733995129
Scientists know the universe will end somehow when entropy is maximized. That leaves a chance of less than 1 on your probability

>>733995236
If he designed everything in a fashion, he would have domain over it all simply by being aware of its construction.

>>733995299
Magnets

>>733995200
Nonsense. It's like you didn't even read >>733994396

Not only did you not answer my questions, but you repeat the (God>logic) nonsense I already shut down.

>>733995324
Universe infintite -> absolute chance it won't end
Did you just make Scientists god?

>>733995360
love how you're trying to argue logically with him :^)

>>733995236
lol

>naming something a certain way means I can disregard logic

see >>733994396
my retarded friend

File: IMG_2563.gif (480KB, 493x342px) Image search: [Google]

480KB, 493x342px

>>733978113
Fucking fedoras, just kys already. Biggest group of faggots on this planet.

>>733995406
An exercise in futility.

>>733995436
>>733991190

>>733995413
God limited Universe to logic and natural laws, not himself.

>>733995360
Yeah, you don't get to make the call on what's shut down. That shit just went wide open with that comment.

>>733995220
The Bible says man is made in the image of God.

God is logical, it is an atribute of God like love see
>>733994396
And
>>733994755

>>733995527
logic already limits everything, as I've explained. stop with the bullshit already

>>733995691
>bible says man is made in the image of god

and the lotr says frodo cast the ring in mount doom. your point?

>>733995528
Try to argue it then, faggot.

>>733995691
>the bible says
> some old collection of letter and myths from flat earth times
> multiple translations to suit whoever's ruling at the time
> multitude of other religions; follow the gourd
> somehow I remain to be convinced

>>733995360
>Nonsense. It's like you didn't even read >>733994396

>Not only did you not answer my questions, but you repeat the (God>logic) nonsense I already shut down.

God is logical. Logic is how God thinks. That is consistent and not nonsense.


>>733994940
>So according to you the train of objectivity goes

>logic -> God -> everything else

No wrong

>If that's the case, how did god arise out of pure logic?

God exists. He calls himself the "I AM" He did not not exist.

Couldn't the same method have been used to crate the universe without any god(s)?

God is outside the universe. "In the beginning, God"

And of course, it should go without saying: how do you know God even exists?


Ps19:1-4
The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
3 There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

>>733995908
>logic already limits everything
But it can't limit God and His Will because he is GOD. Get that through your thick skull.

>>733996015
Too late, it's out of the bag now

>>733996113
>God is logical. Logic is how God thinks. That is consistent and not nonsense.

What was nonsense is you saying god is above logic. What's superfluous is you claiming he exists at all.

>Ps19:1-4

>asks for logical refutation
>gets a fucking Bible quote

God damn it, anon, are you even trying?

>>733995977
My point was these attributes are what make us in Gods image. We love because God loves. Etc

>>733996113
Tl;dr
>it was the best of times; it was the worst of times

>>733996120
Get this >>733994396
through YOUR thick skull, ass burger.

>>733996322
Excellent

>>733996248
We have Down's syndrome / retarded children because god's image etc
That's two generations of flawed begatting

>>733996439
I believe I have settled this thread.
Good bye.

>>733996276
I'm not dumb enough for that. GOD is LIMITLESS. I'll spell it out for you : G-O-D I-S L-I-M-I-T-L-E-S-S. Read that as many times as it's necessary until it start clicking in your sad excuse for shit for brains.

>>733996509
Or from choices you made and free will existing.

File: 11273032_417368768442831_146405842_n.jpg (73KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 640x640px

>>733978113
Well said OP!

>>733978113
I'm a bit agnostic about it, so i just do my best to be a good person and give whatever god's sacred ground i happen to be on a word of thanks or some show of respect.
Playing the odds

>>733996226
>>God is logical. Logic is how God thinks. That is consistent and not nonsense.

>What was nonsense is you saying god is above logic. What's superfluous is you claiming he exists at all.

Logic is an atribute of God. An infinite God is not restrained by logic, but merely uses logic to operate/think.


>>Ps19:1-4

>>asks for logical refutation
>>gets a fucking Bible quote

>God damn it, anon, are you even trying?


It perfectly sums up why there has to be a creator. Nothing comes from something. There is too mucn evidence that there is a God. Where did the big bang come from?

>>733996591
You're right, we need a human cull. World is over populated and resources are over exploited. The fuck are we doing trying to extend lives.

>>733993130
Okay.

>And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:25-27
But on the other hand
>And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:18-19
So were the animals created before humans, or vice versa?

>Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. Deuteronomy 4:35
But on the other hand:
>And God said, let us make man in our image. Genesis 1:26
Note the "us".
>For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords. Deuteronomy 10:17
>Worship him, all ye gods. Psalm 97:7
>O give thanks unto the God of gods. Psalm 136:2
>Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord. Psalm 86:8
>Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11
So is Yahweh the only god or not?

>God ... knoweth all things. 1 John 3:20
and
>Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men. Acts 1:24
But then
>And Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord, amongst the trees of the garden. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? Genesis 3:8-9
If he's all-knowing why would he need to call and ask Adam where he is?
(to be continued in next post)

>>733996736
Yeah nah that's not what it says

>>733996588
Let me spell this out for you.

N-O-N-S-E-N-S-E

Consider suicide, dumbass.

>>733996721
trying to avoid the inevitable cull, obviously.

>>733996736
Which language and translation are you citin from?

>>733996797
You still being able to survive with your mental capacity is clear proof of God's L-I-M-I-T-L-E-S-S Mercy.

>>733996720
FFS, have ever heard a SINGLE argument against your position, or do you just parrot the same tired strawmen every other dumbass theist echoes too each other about what they think atheists believe?

Rhetorical fucking question.

see >>733982364

>An infinite God is not restrained by logic

You're just gonna keep disregarding the refutation I've linked you to a hundred times now? This really is an exercise in futility.

Just fuck off.

>>733996736
Pick one argument the best one you can find. Your not gonna ctrl v spam. All these are extremely easy to explain but ill debunk one by one.

>>733996960
You continuing to spew your horseshit nonsense is clear proof of your L-I-M-I-T-L-E-S-S autism.

>>733996975
You should rrad thay refutation. That was an anon saying God did not create logic but that it is an atribute of God.

Now how did the big bang happen?

>>733997008
Jet fuel / steel beams

>>733997008
Magnets

>>733997008
MSG but how many million Asians without some fucking problem

>>733996736
>For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. Genesis 22:12
If he
>knowest the hearts of all men
then how could he possibly not have already known that Abraham fears him?

>And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. Genesis 3:20
But on the other hand:
>Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, was Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. Hebrews 7:3
So that's a living person who isn't a descendant of Eve, in direct contradiction of the above. And that's not even mentioning the wife that Cain found in the land of Nod; it's never explained where she came from.

And that's just a few contradictions. The page I linked has hundreds more.

>>733984953
If God isn't logical, He doesn't make sense, litteraly. I don't know what you tried with that, but if you wanted to look like a dumbass, then mission accomplished.

Logic is not a property as "physical property". Logic is, broadly, the name we put on the axioms that defines existence (ex : if something is 100% black, it can't be white. That's logic). Sayin God defies logic basicaly means it cannot exist.

>>733996875
The website I'm citing from uses, I believe, the King James version. Although some of these things seem like you'd have to postulate a pretty high level of incompetence on the translator's part to explain it as a mistranslation, regardless of which translation we're talking about. You can feel free to look up the same verses in other translations if you're skeptical.

>>733997116
>Now how did the big bang happen?

No one knows. Do you know what that proves? Nothing. It proves there are mysteries left to be solved, and it doesn't justify substituting whatever "supernatural" nonsense you want to in place of the real answer until if and when scientists actually figure it out, like people have always done when they want to use scientific ignorance to justify blind faith in bullshit.

>>733996775
You can feel free to look up the same verses in your own copy of the Bible if you don't believe me.

>>733997008
Why shouldn't I post all the arguments I can find? If even one cannot be refuted, the whole Bible comes crashing down around you.

>>733978113
my interpretation of the bible is that it's just allegories of human psychology. timeless stories.
things like good and evil, jesus and satan are the range of human capabilities

that being said sky man is gonna come in black helicopters 4 u all

>>733997643
Just find the best ones like you posted. And i agree if any are inconsistent the Bible does fall apart

>>733997256
simple mis direction. If it was made complicated you would figure it out.

change the heirchy numbers, rearrange the story characters a little, change one or two major things but leave most of the story there and bam...none of it makes any sense but somehow all these people know its the word.

Side question to Op's question, if there is a God, who's God is it? Allah, Yeshua, Kirshna, etc.

>>733996248
but what's the original proof of god? what is the proof that god created us in his image? a book written in the bronze age?

>>733997534
It doesn't matter if you will might be able to eventually explain it because it will open up new questions. Where did whatever that caused the big bang come from?

All effects have causes.

>>733997917
I don't understand your question

>>733997474
If God is limited by something is he still God?

>>733997256
>>For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. Genesis 22:12
>If he
>>knowest the hearts of all men
>then how could he possibly not have already known that Abraham fears him?

God wanted it demonstrated for Abraham and the world to see. It wasnt a test because God knows the beart of man.

"On the mount it will be shown or Adonai-jireh"
This is where jesus died

>>733997970
For all we know, the Big Bang is part of an infinite regress of causal origins; or perhaps existence is, at some fundamental, yet-undiscovered level, eternal. In either case, reality has no beginning or "first cause", it simply "is".

It's also special pleading to call god "causeless" and say nothing else possibly can be. Just another incidence of trying to fallaciously define your god into superseding logic, which has already been pointed out in here to be nonsense.

>>733998190
Sure, why not? Why must you try to define god as "limitless"? Disregarding the fact that that's nonsense... Many contemporary theists don't actually claim god to be of limitless power any more since such an idea has been so handily shut down. What they may say now is that he has "maximal possible power", which is fine as definitions go, though of course it doesn't give any credence to arguments for its existence...

>>733998338
>to fallaciously define your god into superseding logic, which has already been pointed out in here to be nonsense.
Kinda bold for a Creation to define his Creator according to his perception that is limited to only six senses and brains of a primate don't you think?

>>733978113
I get enough of my prayers have been answered

>>733998544
Logic supersedes the physical senses, buddy. If it didn't, the field of mathematics wouldn't exist...

>>733998319
Yes, but it says
>now I know that thou fearest God
which, so far as I can tell, can only be taken to mean "I didn't know before". No one says "now X is the case" if X has always been the case. And looking at the original Hebrew, it does appear to say, literally "Now I know".

>>733997256

>>And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. Genesis 3:20
>But on the other hand:
>>Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, was Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. Hebrews 7:3
>So that's a living person who isn't a descendant of Eve, in direct contradiction of the above. And that's not even mentioning the wife that Cain found in the land of Nod; it's never explained where she came from.

Melchisedec is the Word of God, Jesus as God before he became a human being.

>And that's just a few contradictions. The page I linked has hundreds more.

None so far...

>>733998770
So was Melchisedec not living? It says he had
>nor end of life
but for something to not end, it must exist in the first place, otherwise "it doesn't end" is a completely meaningless statement. So he must have had a life, i.e. been alive.

>>733998770
Oh, and by the way, you never addressed the contradictory orders of creation.