How much longer do you reckon it'll take till people realize

>>732184282
We had our chance to prove that this election, but instead we proved we aren't smart enough to lead ourselves.

We shouldn't have elected either candidate. We should have stuck with 3rd party or not voted at all. We should have become "We the people" and stated neither options are valid for leading this country, and we demand a ban on the two, and then a new process to take place.

>>732184791
Trump scares me, to be sure. But I have to say I'm much more comfortable with him than with Hillary.

I guess that chances of him starting WW3 are decent enough. And that is probably the worst case scenario.

But I believe our country is also facing an unprecedented economic crises that Hillary would have facilitated much more quickly. Wars are avoidable but we can't keep digging ourselves deeper into debt forever with no repercussions. I think eventually it will bite us and I think Trump is helping to reverse the inevitable, for now.

>>732184988
No, Hillary was just as bad in the opposite direction. Where you see Trump being a fucktard corrupt politician, Hillary would simply have done the same but you wouldn't have seen it as clearly. Mainly because she is more practiced in her criminal activity.

I don't believe WW3 will start. Not as long as the US is the instigator.

The economic crisis is because of the banks and politicians. Not because of the president. That's why Obama was revealed to be a douche corrupt puppet in his second term. Everyone realized, "Oh, the economy was going to get better ANYWAY."

>>732184282
i'm so glad trump has finally made america great again. half the country assumes the president is a russian spy, while the other half claims all facts are false.

>>732184282
Who takes care of the roads?
Who provides relief from disasters?
How would you stop the swarm of third wold trash that would sweep over our borders the moment there was 100% open borders because we have no federal border patrol?

>>732185495
>assumes the president is a russian spy
Comey exonerated Trump of all Russian connections in 3 different statements. The liberals are the ones who refuse to accept facts. They spew lies all day every day and then get mad people aren't falling for it any more.

That would work if we had 500 million people on the planet.

It's not so.

Humans are inherently tribal, existing in a global state goes against our nature. Now that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most technology goes against our nature - but it makes people crazy. Things like cults emerge.

There needs to be a firm hand that can create order, or at least the illusion of order to protect the weak from the strong.

>>732185613
>apparently not the government
>apparently not the government
>really? Do I even need to point out how fucking retarded that statement was? *cough* meximuslim Obama

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>>732185833
>really? Do I even need to point out how fucking retarded that statement was?

Hi Carl the Cuck

>>732185613
>Who takes care of the roads?
Yeah? Who? Because the roads suck, bridges are crumbling and I got two flat tires in two successive days from fucking potholes, so please tell me, who's in charge of the fucking roads?

>>732185785
>There needs to be a firm hand that can create order,

You might enjoy living in Russia more, friend.

>>732184282
Can you build an F-35 from scratch, faggot?

>>732185613
Oh we absolutely need government. It just isn't going to save us from all the things we fear is all. Border patrol, national security, these are basic things government is supposed to do.

>>732186175
National defense is part of the government's role, faggot. I'm OP.

>>732186033
It would be 100X worse in some fantasy anarchist commune state. Have you ever been to a commune house where like 10 hippies live? It's the most disgusting thing you will ever see. A bunch of lazy fuckers trying to get somebody else to clean up their mess.

Now imagine an entire society trying to function like that.

>>732186175
It can't be hard with an instruction manual.

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>>732185936
lol liberals
Use more buzz words you learned from /b/.

>>732186238
I'm a hippie and I shower daily, rent a nice place to smoke pot and burn nag champa in.

>>732186289
>4chan invented the term liberal

Wow you really are a fucking retard

>>732186193
Which is pretty much the only thing they aren't doing, haha.

>>732184282
We ultimately need the force of the state to purge all invaders and parasites from the West.

>>732186289
Someone struck a nerve

>>732186107
tbh, sometime I think I'm in favor of a benevolent authoritarian government. There would have to be equal civil rights for all, they'd have to be anti-interventionist and (somehow, someway) be impervious to corruption, always working towards the greater good for society.

I feel like authoritarianism gets a bad rap because it's only been corrupt, power hungry, small men who've done it.

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>>732186376

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>>732186350
I was talking about the word "cuck" you standard-issue uneducated liberal retard. Jesus, you actually made me lol.

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>>732185833

There is nothing new, this has all happened before.

While studying economics, I found that-
the ancient Egyptians had rent control.

The new marketing fad is 'democratic' socialism. However, the swing towards Keynesian economics after the housing bubble caused lots of problems with all socialism.

Few have an accurate grasp of what actually happened.

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>>732186421
Sorry didn't mean to, just pointing it all out as is.

>>732186485
>doesn't know who carl the cuck is
>wants to debate politics

>>732186543
>I am very smrat

>>732186435
You're not wrong, you're just naive.

This is what Adam Smith talks about in "Wealth of Nations". That somehow, inexplicably, when people are left free to pursue their own selfish interests, when all trades and exchanges are allowed to be made voluntarily, the person seeking his own benefit ends up providing good to society, because no one would trade with him if he did not feel he was benefiting also.

Oddly enough, it is the "do gooders" who end up doing the most harm. They don't mean to, they have good intentions, but they force trade and exchanges, they disrupt the market and information about prices and value, and of course, they never spend your money as wisely as they spend their own.

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>>732186584
>implying
Come on now, you aren't even trying anymore.

Also, I'm going for a jog. Feel free to get the last word in. As far as I'm concerned, you're just butthurt I called you out.

>>732186769
No, you are just butthurt that I called you out on "really? Do I even need to point out how fucking retarded that statement was?" being the core of your argument.

>>732184282

Right, so we'll all get together and decide how to build and maintain an interstate system so we can ship goods and people freely across long distances?

Let's all just get together and sit at a table and figure out how we'll keep our water and air clean, and to agree on an appropriate criminal justice system that provides a semblance of due process?

Let's all just get together and decide how monetary policy works and guarantee the safety net necessary for banks to function and lending to continue?

Let's sit at the table and decide foreign policy for ourselves, let's all just agree to fund new technologies and dole out assistance where necessary to education.

You know nothing of which you speak. Anarchy and libertarianism are hopelessly naive about how society works.

And guess what would happen in your beautiful system? Another government would develop and arise. Governments are born for a reason, dipshit.

>>732185349

The economy survived, as did the banking system, because of a massive federal bailout and the Fed keeping interest rates at 0% forever so people would still be able to borrow.

Presidential input on monetary policy matters, and no, it wouldn't have just "got better" without any government interventions. If the banks had failed, it would have been catastrophic, and without manipulating interest rates and currency policy, almost no one would have been able or willing to borrow.

Protip: Lending is the foundation of every economy.

>>732186894
Anarcho-capitalism would quickly return us to a feudal system, with a few large landowners and many serfs.
Honestly, it would probably be for the better.

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>>732187135
>Lending is the foundation of every economy.

>>732186732
I see what you're saying.
Intentional systems break themselves.

>>732187332
what is corporate America but a form of feudalism?

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>>732184282
What makes you think you are free?

>>732187135
They certainly can't and won't be lending my 'capitol'. I will not invest it.
Low interest rates do not create capitol flow.
Demand side (Keynesian) economics do not/ have never/will never work.

>>732186485
The cuck nonsense was popularized by Bannon.

>>732186435
Socialism doesn't work and never will. What price is freedom worth if your throat is under the heel of the government to be crushed at any point? That's the problem with humanity, too many willfully ignorant people allowing a few elites that are no better than them to control their lives. The whole system needs to go.

>>732186543
That wasn't politics, just greedy bankers who had influence on both sides. Each side had bankers lobbying to accomplish the goals which they did. The republicans just opposed it more and actually pursued legislation to prevent the bigger conglomerates from having their way.

>>732188509
I am not sure what you are saying.

>>732188147
The first place I saw it was /pol/ and it started off as cuckservative then was shortened to cuck and applied to everything you fucking cuck.

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>>732188198
That's why the 2nd amendment is so important. they realized that all governments slide towards tyranny sooner or later, even the USA. The 2nd amendment is supposed to give the people the ability to revolt in a way that is a legitimate threat.

It's ridiculous that people really think they can march and hold up picket signs and fight tyranny.

Yeah, tank man was brave as fuck. But he was arrested and never seen again...

>>732188794
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GoAGuTIbVY

Long watch but worth it. Just an economic expert quantifying the housing boom and bust thus causing the second depression.

>>732188843
Follow the money and work backwards.
/pol/ < Breitbart < Bannon

>>732189406
Because I lost A LOT of money in one afternoon, I carefully studied the 'housing bubble'. I understand it completely and need no instruction.
Thanks but no.

>>732186543
Watch and learn anon. Unless your are one of the legions of lazy minded bovines grazing the planet.
http://documentarylovers.com/film/inside-job/

>>732189875
For the last time I have and do study economics. I do not need anybodies interpretation.
Do not make assumptions about me.

>>732189079
No joke, they've been trying to quell "rebellious" behavior and indoctrinate youths for the past decade or so. Even if you defend yourself from a bully you still get in trouble. It's all a gimmick against freedom and about mind control. That's why social media is so prevalent these days; it keeps would be freedom fighters and those passionate about a cause distracted with asinine insipid BS.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson

"Blind obedience isn't patriotism" and lastly, "When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty".

If there were to be a 2nd revolutionary war in America it will be over the 2nd Amendment. .

>>732184282
What we need is a computer program to run everything as a benevolent and incorruptible dictator. That's the only way mankind can possibly sustain itself.

>>732189786
If such is the case then you already know which financial institutions and polices to blame along with the politicians and previous POTUS that signed off on it.

>>732190328
In my opinion when the 2nd amendment falls the rest will fall soon after.

Once the 2nd is gone what do you do when they start going after the 1st? Write a strongly worded letter to your congressman?

>>732190543
Now I have you pegged. A propagandist.

There was more than one POTUS involved in that public swindle.

To say you are naive is as kind as I can be.

>>732190384
This. That will honestly probably be the case, not within our lifetime, but as technology advances at a more rapid and rapid pace, the current model of feuding nations isn't going to be sustainable. There will be too many people, and instruments of war will become too sophisticated. Think about it this way, nuclear warfare has only been around for less than a century. Nothing catastrophic has happened yet, but there have been many close calls. And so far there have only been two nations capable of plausibly ending life as we know it. What happens when that's everyone? Pop culture makes the idea of an AI based government seem nightmarish, but it's honestly the best possible outcome. A benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government, but humanity is incapable of wielding absolute power benevolently. A machine can do it, and eventually, it's going to be that or extinction.

>>732190552
I'm not sure if it will fall, there are too many "patriots" in America that will seriously lay down their lives in defense of the Constitution, LEOs and Military Service Members included. Many hold it dear and it is legitimately seen as an act of treason punishable by death to revoke by many.

If Americans simply do nothing like the Australians did when their guns were confiscated then yes, I agree the freedom of speech will be taken away immediately after. America will be a nanny state such as European countries and Australia; which is why so many are again giving up their right to bear arms to begin with. Rightfully so as well, armed citizens can keep a would be tyrannical government in check if and when it comes down to it.

>>732190945
Don't tell others not to assume anything about you when you turn around and do the same thing. ;-)

Re-read my original statement to you. It wasn't majority party politics, each side was being played.

>>732184988
>I guess that chances of him starting WW3 are decent enough. And that is probably the worst case scenario.
But yeah, hes the better candidate.
"Fucking stupid" should be tattooed on your forehead so no one ever hires you or allows you to breed.

>>732186894
>so we can ship goods and people freely across long distances
It was built by Eisenhower, who made a cross country trip as a young private in the army and it was a muddy messy fuckshow, so when he became president he built the interstate highway system. It is first and foremost a logistical military asset.

>>732184988
>I guess that chances of him starting WW3 are decent enough

against who?

China appears to be working with us against North Korea. More than they ever have in the past.

And Trump and Putin are gay lovers, right?

So who exactly are we going to have WWIII against if not Russia or China? Doesn't matter to a faggot like you though. Trump is still a lunatic out to start WWIII.

>>732187135
Plus quantitative easing (printing and circulating cash). The issue is the more of something there is the less it is worth.

>>732184282
A European 10-year-old has a better grasp on how the world works than you. Congrats. Fucking american trash.

>>732191587
You and I are done-
no harm-
no foul.

Humans fail to live on their own or govern themselves.
Ultimately, humans surpass beasts by a margin, intellectually; but aren't smart or focused enough to create an existence that is replenishable.
Human extinction is probably the best thing that could happen to the primal earth, as well as ourselves.

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>>732189079
MY GOD HAVE YOU EVEN ACTUALLY READ THE CONSTITUTION?

>>732192566
Why do all you faggots who love to act like you see the big picture never admit that the Sun is expected to swell to a red giant and scorch the Earth completely. The seas will boil away and it will be a charred rock orbiting the sun closer than Mercury orbits now.

The Earth is doomed. yes it will take billions of years, but it is doomed. Humans need to find a way to get off this planet and possibly spread the wonder of life across the galaxy. Otherwise it all ends here eventually.

Animals aren't going to get off the planet without evil nasty humans.

Lead by example and kill yourself.

>>732192824
of course I have

How about you present some sort of argument instead of asking rhetorical questions.

>>732191268
>I'm not sure if it will fall, there are too many "patriots" in America that will seriously lay down their lives in defense of the Constitution, LEOs and Military Service Members included. Many hold it dear and it is legitimately seen as an act of treason punishable by death to revoke by many.

I agree with your sentiment, I am in favor of the Constitution and everything it entails, but I think a lot of Second Amendment people are looking at it the wrong way. I just don't see any outcome wherein the government tries to stage an all out assault on the people in which guns are going to be terribly effective or relevant. There's just no need.

I don't mean to try and put words in your mouth, I'm not trying to assert that this is your position, but what I gather from a lot of NRA types is the fear that the right to bear arms is the one thing standing between us and some kind of authoritarian dictatorship. That was the case at the time of the Revolution, but the system has changed since then. I don't think the Government is out to take our guns, at least not in the way that some people think it is. It's a fairly natural progression. When people have less exposure to guns, seem scary. When your only concept of a firearm comes from what you see and movies and on the news, of course you'd be less in favor of having so many of them around. Which is why the pro/anti second amendment divide is almost exclusively a city vs rural issue. Rural Americans who grow up around guns and see them as part of daily life have no reason to fear them. But the power tends to flow from the city outward. I don't think it's a conspiracy, just a natural progression of people's perception.

Anyway, I don't think the second revolution, should there ever be such a thing, will be fought as a "war" in the conventional sense. The people who pull the strings do so with economic power rather than force. The divide will be between the rich and poor, not the Patriots and Communists/etc

>>732191240

Pop culture makes it that way because it is very possible. If we're actually talking about true AI, it may be that any being that becomes self aware would be inherently selfish, and the AI would end up serving its' own interestt rather than the people's, much like the current governments of the world.

If we're not talking about a true AI, then it would just be an advanced program written by humans, and therefor eminently corruptible just like current governments.

I think a dictatorship headed by a truly good and decent human being would be the best government. Unfortunately, there are very, very few examples of this in reality.

>>732193330
>I just don't see any outcome wherein the government tries to stage an all out assault on the people in which guns are going to be terribly effective or relevant. There's just no need.

You are missing the point entirely. They don't need to do that when they can just keep taking them away inch by inch.

It's for the children. Think of the children. You want the children to be safe, right? What are you, some kind of monster?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=277Ic2AlFqM

>>732193029
That's actually my stance as well, deluded bible thumpers who chose to ignore reality conveniently block this out. The countdown to Earth's destruction is already halfway down; it took the first half (4-4.5 billion years just to get to this point). Humanity is a cancer to this planet, no need to spread it across the cosmos. Homo sapiens have a long way to go before they should be allowed to inhabit other planets and continue their species.

>>732184282
This is what Antifa actually believes.

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>>732194165
>no need to spread it across the cosmos. Homo sapiens have a long way to go before they should be allowed to inhabit other planets and continue their species.


Why do you people hate yourselves so much?
Society continues to improve yet you crybabies act like it is worse than ever.

Crime is dropping across all aspects. It is safer than ever.

Emissions keep improving and pollution is being decreased. Ever seen the smog over all major cities in the late 70's?

Fuck all you negative crybabies. Maybe we can leave you behind on Earth.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-1

>>732193330
>stage an all out assault on the people
That is not tyranny. Nobody wants to rule a kingdom of corpses.
Tyranny is raiding your house for contraband.
Tyranny is enforcing curfews.
Tyranny is throwing dissenters into camps.
You need boots on the ground for that, and that is why guns are effective.

>>732195089
>Higher literacy and education across the world than ever before
>Lowering infant death rates
>Women have more rights than ever
>Diseases have been removed from the world
>Crime decreasing
>Green energy becoming viable

Yeah, humans should just off themselves. You should start the trend.

>>732185737
>Comey exonerated Trump of all Russian connections in 3 different statements
Care to show us these magical statements?

>>732194052
No, I addressed that point. Where we differ is in the assumption that it is some sort of conspiracy and that when all the guns are taken they will have accomplished some kind of long con. But if that's the case, what is their endgame? I believe it was you that said to turn us into a nannystate like Australia and EU countries. That's fine, we're both arriving at the same conclusion, I just think we are heading that way naturally as opposed to some nefarious keikaku. I don't think the people that are really pulling the strings behind the government, namely ultra-wealthy globalist types, care much about the guns. They can achieve their ends with or without an armed populace. They aren't staging a coups, their only aim is to make themselves more wealthy at your expense. They can rob you without having to point a gun.

>>732190176
>Do not make assumptions about me.
I going to assume you're a smugtard.

>>732184282
If this was true government never would have happened in the first place

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>>732192160
globalist scum.

>>732184282
They have that OP, it's called all the worst countries in Africa. because people are shitty, and without government and law enforcement, the strongest people with the biggest weapons kill people like you and take your shit.

A free government free society has never managed to function in all of our history.

Would you still have a military?

Would police enforce laws when people do wrong, or would you just hang them or something. Would you arm yourself and if a bunch of guys started killing your neighbors would you just decide it's not your problem?

What about money? Who decided the value of a dollar? Do you go back to simple trade, and if so, do you cut yourself off from all other countries who stuff use modern currency?

This would not end well.

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>>732193029
>Lead by example and kill yourself.

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>>732195621
He said he wan't being investigated in three separate statements, as per this letter. The guy you're arguing with is either drawing his own conclusions or is privy to some sort of information that we are not. Either way doesn't particularly matter, the investigation is ongoing whether /pol/ likes it or not. I doubt it will turn up the sort of Earth shattering realizations some people hope it will. There are almost certainly connections, but I doubt highly that it is 'treasonous' in the traditional sense. Just business ties. Whether or not that will be enough for a successful impeachment/removal will depend on where Trump's numbers stand if/when the Democrats reclaim congress. If he's popular, he can be impeached and still keep his head above water like Clinton in the 90s. If he is unpopular, it could lead to a resignation.

>>732184282
Whn Russia or China is ready to invade.

>>732186107
You still need law. Otherwise all the shitty people out there, including the ones who aren't shitty because they fear going to jail or losing what they have, would just run rampant and commit 10x the crime with no organized response in play.

>>732184282
I like to nigger

I like to nogger

I like to nigger nigger nogger nogger

>>732195089
Because the vast majority of homo sapiens are stupid, worthless, non-contributing parasites to the rest and the majority of them are play right into the system that a handful of other homo sapiens control. You're born into broken and unnecessary existence and chose to fight for a system of economic slavery that ensnares all. Humans don't have a right to exist if they chose to live slaves under a false sense of freedom. Their primary focus of consuming and possessing resources around them for superficial reasons shouldn't infect other solar systems.

>>732191240
>A machine can do it
That's fucking stupid.

>>732195665
>all the guns are taken they will have accomplished some kind of long con

That's exactly what is happening. Look at Venezuela. Private gun ownership was banned in Venezuela in June 2012. Now there are massive riots that border on all out revolution as their economy is collapsing. And what do you know, people aligned politically with the incumbent government get to have guns!

But that could never happen in the USA. I'm just paranoid...

>Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro said he will expand the number of civilians involved in armed militias, providing guns to as many as 400,000 loyalists.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/18/venezuelas-maduro-to-provide-guns-to-400000-loyalists-amid-peaking-tension.html

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>>732185737

Here's why this wouldn't work OP: You live in your anarchistic society, and I don't. I gather a few thousand men who don't have much and I promise them more, food, wealth, shelter, etc. I then take what you have and give it to them. And your neighbors. And bam, you live under a new, much least pleasant government who thinks democracy is a shit idea.

You are a conquered people in a shit nation. And if not me, some other dude. Unless you have a few thousand friends, an organized military, and someone overseeing it all... then, you're back to government.

>>732184282
>
OP is an idiot.

Libertarianism is naive, especially in the age of nuclear proliferation.

A vacuum of government power doesnt mean youre free to be you, it means the guy who ends up with the most force decides for you. Anarchy is worse, at least you get a vote and the system has a modicum of social cohesion. You literally have to know nothing about human nature, history, technology and game theory to be a libertarian.

Liberals are right, not neo-liberals like hillary, not the liberals your crowders and your paul joseph watsons train you to hate, not the liberals in your freshman english classes... The ones publishing papers with peer reviewed science in the intellectual gauntlet. Putting the only thing they have on the line, their reputation. Enough hatered of the ivory tower, quit pretending you know more than people who study their whole lives in one disipline. We need a constitutional republic like we have, we need many many more legislators, we need to ban party membership, we need to publically fund elections and/or make a cap to individual donations, we need instant run off elections and we need laws based on peer reviewed science and empirical study. It really is that simple. The people making it identity politics in any way shape or form are making money off of your stupidity and willingness to be vindictive assholes, that goes for both sides.

>>732196419
Clinton wasn't acquitted because he was popular it's because the charge the senate tied on the vote the president of the senate cast the deciding vote, which was...Al Gore. Partisan bullshit, just like now. It's all a big game for money and power.

>>732196933
>vacuum of government power
That's not libertarianism, sugartits.

>>732196933
>we need to ban party membership
Factions naturally arise. It's human nature. We are tribal by nature. It's how we evolved.

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>>732185613

>>732184282

Here's the thing. You can't get rid of government if you have people living in proximity.

Let's say that you did get rid of all government somehow. There's a small farming community of maybe 20 people, some of them grow corn, some raise pigs, some grow beans, etc. Well, it's pretty obvious you can't live on just one of those things, so the farmers have to trade to get the other things that they need. They determine among themselves what a fair exchange rate is for their resources. Congratulations, you have government again. Even if they were a society that didn't trade, but just distributed an equal amount of food to those who need it, they would still need to determine everyone's fair share.

Government at the basic level is any sort of rules people make, and as long as there is more than one person, rules will be required to interact.

>>732188081
So I suppose that you put your money under the mattress then? When you deposit your money in a bank, they invest it.

>>732196640
Actually machine learning and artificial intelligence are very real. The tech already exists to replace a lot of manual labor and it will continue to grow. Investing in this for businesses is very profitable as machines can replace entire work forces in a vast field of professions. Companies don't have to pay thousands of employees and save tens of millions on payroll and benefits while a machine works for free 24/7. It's already happening.

As for government and judicial purposes, it's all fair. Punishment is all the same and standardized. No longer will the Justin Bierbers get away with drunk driving and racing in a Lambo only to cuss out cops and resist arrest and get away with public service and no record. Meanwhile, anyone else will be locked up most likely. An AI FBI director would not have been scared of convicting Hillary Clinton of crimes and sentencing her to a prison.

>>732197366
>still doesn't say who will build the roads

>>732197083
Fair enough. But a President's popularity is naturally going to play a role on whether or not impeachment filing occurs. Congressmen would be less likely to impeach a hugely popular president than a hugely unpopular one, if only to cover their own asses from the potential fallout. It's not good PR to remove a president your constituents approve of.

>>732186033
I'm going to guess that you live in a state with no income tax. Most states that actually collect taxes have decent roads.

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>>732186732
THANK YOU. Based free market up in this mother.

>>732197190
Yes, i get that libertarianism is just "small government" or whatever you need it to mean to avoid a substantive argument but if small government is to mean anything its just a mindless platitude. Why small? so corportate influence can drown it out? Dont be such a tool. Obviously there needs to be a balance of power but for christs sakes have a modicum of critical thought. When someone says we need small government, isnt that like, not even a goal? isnt that purely semantic garbage? when will we know we have small government? when youre totally dominated by other powers? grow up seriously.

We need the government ot do something about anthropogenic climate change. That and nuclear proliferation blow any libertarian argument off the map from the start.. Sorry, but clearly saying "wouldnt it be nice" is no longer helpful

>>732197283

People, once they understand their own nature and open up their minds to change, can work past that if they adopt a mindset based on objective thought and just implementing the most logical idea and change it as feedback is received.

Problem is most people don't want to change, can't accept when they are wrong, and won't compromise when it comes to their beliefs. they form factions of like minded people because it makes their delusions easier to rationalize through the crowd effect. "If all these people believe it, I have to be right."

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>>732197635
California has shitty roads. And sky high taxes.

But we'll have a bullet train from Modesto to Fresno in 30 to 40 years.

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>>732187135
Sorry you missed out as a child. Pic related.

>>732197283
Thats not even the point. Factions are different than political parties. If you dont know the functional difference, read a book and stop pretending to know anything about politics

>>732197743
>when will we know we have small government?
When the federal deficit isn't ticking up tens of thousands of $ a second

>>732186732
Except that when people are left to their own selfish devices you also get the wholesale slaughter of those deemed "other" (see the indian wars), and horrible working conditions and very little to no incentive to actually take care of shit for future generations. We have to start acting like we have brains and think about inhabiting this planet for the next 1000 years.

>>732197887
If you can't see how they are related then I shouldn't bother trying to talk to you.

The vast majority of the electorate is too naive, lazy, or apathetic to really care about every candidate and policy. They want a label to latch onto that they know they identify with.

>>732197366
I love this nonargument from the ancaps, they are so dumb to pretend that is the argument against them. My courts courts court says your courts court is illegitimate.

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>>732189406
>Sowell
Fuck yeah.

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>>732184282
Hurr durr my name is OP and I just discovered anarchism and I can't suck enough dicks.
Fuck off, OP.

>>732197891
Im a liberal, i still believe in reducing the deficit and managing the books unless economic or military crisis. (post keynsian btw, inb4 keynsian rant)

>>732197906
You should not malign the indians. They were fighting for what they thought - however wrong and selfish - was their land.

Fucking bigot.

>>732198029
You shouldnt bother talking because my argument wasnt about factions it was about the specific political mechanisms that political parties invite, you tried to equate the two. And the substance of my argument got lost in the useless back and forth.

>>732197773
Or perhaps the world is more complicated than you make it seem and what is the "best" option for one person is objectively not the "best" for another. Context is everything

>>732198123
Using the logic of your pic, wouldn't a person who uses tax funded services without paying taxes therefore be a thief?

Can I treat every illegal immigrant and unemployed piece of trash like a thief? They are stealing my money.

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>>732195089
Not sure I buy your premise wholeheartedly, but this does corroborate it:

>>732198389
I'm not maligning the indians, I am maligning the people that took everything from them for selfish reasons. Which was perfectly legal at the time by the way. And so was internment camps...

>>732197906
Bullshit. Humans have always been adept at raising the next generation for the challenges they'll have to face.

>>732196701
> Private gun ownership was banned in Venezuela in June 2012. Now there are massive riots that border on all out revolution as their economy is collapsing.

Which is exactly why I don't think that's quite what is happening in the US. The people who most influence politics in this country are the ultra-wealthy. Everything they do is done in the name of increasing their own wealth. I do not think there is a shadowy cabal that has been steadily trying to take your guns over the course of two centuries as a means of taking control of the government. They already control the government. It's a hell of a lot better being a billionaire in the US than in Venezuela. What do they stand to gain by turning the US into Venezuela?

>But that could never happen in the USA. I'm just paranoid...

No, you aren't paranoid. I have said multiple times that the second amendment is being eroded, the only part where we differ is on WHY it's being eroded.

>>732196580
wow, this guy really fucking hates himself

>>732198472
Or perhaps the world shouldnt stop because joe westerson wants to own a slave. it goes both ways. these arguments are the point of government. People make it out to necessarily mean the big bad wolf. It's just another institution, except its one you have propriety in, ahhhhhhhhh, scary. You people are trained to hate it because its the only thing the powerful have yet to totally take back, and theyre making their move and we will not stand a chance once our rights are gone. It was the conservatives who did this, that must be remembered

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>>732195905
>parasites and liars don't help the people they say they help
>so parasites and liars would never have emerged in the first place!

>>732198123
This.

>>732198472

That's when you have to compromise, to implement a solution that isn't the best for YOU, but might be best for all. In a purely objective, rational world, observation of the results of the solution are proof of the effectiveness, which can then be used to tweak the solution further, replace it if it is not effective, or leave it alone if it is doing its job.

If it seems simple it's because it is. People just need to get over their preconceptions and egos long enough to realize they aren't right all the time.

>>732195089
Emissions... lol. Do you even global? Emissions in China and India are horrible and new. Did you know that they have approximately 1/2 the worlds population? We are not only considering the USA here.

>>732196933
>implying nuclear weaponry would exist without government

Only the government consolidates enough power to destroy the earth. This is Andrew Ryan level refutation

>>732198880
hahahaha you dont know how property works.

Hunny, property rights are normative social construct. If you think taxation is theft, you cannot justify property rights. Your argument is self refuting. Ancap scum

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>>732198814
>I do not think there is a shadowy cabal that has been steadily trying to take your guns over the course of two centuries as a means of taking control of the government.

Must be why every major media outlet except maybe fox is rabidly anti-gun. There isn't a huge agenda against guns. Just ignore all the multi-billion dollar organizations who are actively fighting against gun rights. There is no conspiracy to see here, move along.

Now lets just talk about how evil "assault rifles" are. They kill 15% as much as knives do every year! They kill 37% as much as punching and kicking kills every year! Clearly they must be banned. Think of the children!!!!

>>732198918
>io
Or you simply vote on it and the one with the most votes is deemed the best option by the majority of people. You know, tyranny of the majority.

People will never get rid of their egos, just look at our shining example of a president.

>>732197743
>When someone says we need the government to do something about anthropogenic climate change, isn't that like, not even a goal? isnt that purely semantic garbage? when will we know we have done something about anthropogenic climate change? when the sea levels lower and an ice age starts? grow up seriously.

>>732199042
And faggots think paying more carbon taxes in the USA will stop China and India from polluting like crazy.

Pollution has also almost been forgotten is seems. Everybody is just freaking out about CARBON, OMG CARBON!

>>732198833
No, I just hate everyone else. Humans need to go the way of the dinosaurs, which they probably will anyways. Homo sapiens are the masters of self destruction as clearly shown throughout their history. 99.99% of life of has been wiped out on earth from natural causes; this may be the first time a species will wipe itself out from self inflected reasons. Either way, another comet will hit earth or humans will nuke themselves to death from bombs or electronic devices long before the sun expands out to region of the planet and vaporizes it.

>>732191240
Want to know how you prevent a world where everyone could end humanity? You crush everyone who wants those tool.

The dumbest thing America ever did was not invading Russia as soon as they found out they stole nuclear weapon plans.
They wouldn't have had the time necessary to produce a working model (since the US never kept any copies of fully functional models, always breaking them into pieces so they'd require study to reproduce a functional model.)

Meanwhile the US has an invading army and a nuclear option that no one else had.

>>732196640
See "Ender's Game" for a thought experiment of this in action. In the author's imagined universe the interstellar computer network is allowed to handle information that government employees can't. Psychological profiles and such, things that are a breach of privacy for a human to have access to, but an emotionless machine running algorithms with that information is not. It's actually very plausible, although we've kind of gone past the point of no return with the breach of civil liberties these days

>>732199414
Stupidest reply of the day goes to!!!!!

The point isnt that this magical utopia that youre so hopelessly naive about isnt going to have the power to make nukes. It's that they exist and so does the knowledge. Just because there isnt a government or a very small one, doesnt mean theres no power interests, jesus christ you libertarians are worthless drones

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>>732198531
Yes. That is exactly what Spooner and I are saying. Help we voluntarily give the needy is more moral than help that is taken from us by a third party without any input on our behalf.

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>>732199623
I can't wait until the scientific elite gets to leave all you retards behind and start the new chapter of human existence among the stars.

You pathetic faggots can wallow in your self hatred and human drama here on Earth.

>>732199424
Or you could lump in the "Firearms, type not stated" as a hedge because you dont know if those were assault rifles or not and then you would be completely wrong.

>>732196501
Frontier justice. Other people will still hold you accountable. Crime couldn't run rampant in villages during the dark ages because the villagers would fucken kill the criminal

>>732199552
Ill settle for reversing the trend... Are you this dumb?

>>732198880
What if I told you people consent to taxation? If you don't want to pay taxes go live in the goddamn woods

>>732199601
Well you know, nature has spent like 3 billion years sequestering that carbon in things like oil and coal and we are busy burning it into the atmosphere as fast as we can because muh energy and muh profits.

>>732199859
>If we just assume that all the unknown events support my argument, then my argument wins!

Or we could assume the data trends along the same distribution we already see, with rifles being the least used type of firearm for homicide.

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>>732199419
>property rights are normative social construct
*I'M* the one who doesn't know how property works?

>>732199601
You realize that china and india are doing things about it and have agreed to go further if we will, right. You cant be living in that much of a bubble to not know the only thing holding the world back on this issue is the GOP refusing to agree to enforceable actionable goals. Litterally every other country stands ready. Conservatives are stupid enough to be a danger to the entire planet.

>>732199985
>What if I told you people consent to taxation?
no they don't, hence the irs

>>732199530

If they won't, then we will never progress beyond this as a society.

>>732199601

That's because it's the carbon that's going to kill us faster. I can put my science copypasta here if you like explaining how it works.

In the wider scope of the thread, you could argue those two countries (China and India) still have major emissions problems because they refuse to self regulate industry, whereas the US implemented industry controls which drastically reduced emissions and raised the quality of life for everyone living there.

It's not a 'everyone else is doing it so it's okay' thing, it's a 'we have to at least do what we can' thing.

>>732199743
It doesn't matter how much interest you have in power if there are no powerful people. Who will use the nuke if nobody has the power to do so?

Yes it's inefficient but there's no solution.

Government > No Government.

>>732200062
is that what they told you in highschool?

>>732199807
I agree with that, but there is not enough voluntary help and noone wants to live in a country full of angry poors.

>>732200137
>What could possibly go wrong with letting foreign powers grip our economy by the balls?

>>732200094
Except for mass homicide. Do your numbers remove the suicides? Suicides are mostly handguns. Mass killings are mostly rifles.

>>732199623
>implying self destruction is not natural

Seriously, do you have any perspective? The only reason 99% of species are extinct is because the Earth and life on it are so damn old. Do you have any idea how long 3 billion years lasts?

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>>732200062
>muh energy and muh profits.
You know that "muh" shit just makes you look like a retarded douchebag. Right?

>>732200169

I willingly pay taxes to have access to a society in which I am not concerned with survival, but entertainment and knowledge.

Can't do that with no government, because it would be impossible to make people work together otherwise.

>>732200130
Yes, if you dont understand that they are definitionally socially normative constructs which are only objective by retaliatory force, you do not.

Saying "my gun makes my property right" is useless semantic and subjective special pleading. Thats a worldview that justifies everyones individual use of force, so long as they can justify it to themselves, and trust me, we're dumb enough to do so in thousands of different ways. Ancaps are so incredibly stupid, I just cant...

>>732199985
>people consent to taxation
Great! Go tax those people.
I do live out in the woods. At the end of a driveway I paid my own money to build, and that I maintain myself. I consented to enter an agreement with an ISP for Internet service, and now I'm here with you lovely people.

>>732200176
We must move to renewable energy ASAP.

Whale oil bio-fuel is 100% natural and will lead us to a brighter and static climate future.

>>732200169
Yes, they do. When you except societies benefits you are accepting part of the cost for them. If you reject society, you won't have to pay taxes.

>>732200179
Literally anyone that gets their hands on one or produces one? come on

>>732200523
Oh wow my grammar was fucking atrocious....

>>732200176
You mean like massive government regulation works? WHA

>>732184791
Agreed

>>732200474

So you never used government services? Did you buy things at a store? Get mail? See a doctor? Take medication? Get education?
None of these are possible with no government.

>>732200233
Nope, that is what I learned in the school of common sense. I suppose you think that GOD put that oil in there?

>>732200391
None of those numbers are suicide, it is the FBI's homicide figures. Only anti-gun retards include suicides because it triples the numbers. About 2/3 gun deaths are suicides. Approximately 30,000 deaths looks way worse than approximately 10,000.

Who cares that using car exhaust is also one of the top ways to commit suicide with thousands of occurrences every year. Including those numbers in car related deaths would be silly.

But including suicides in firearm deaths makes total sense...

>Mass killings are mostly rifles
Mass killings kill less people very year than bee stings. They are not a legitimate threat to the public. They are just sensational. When they happen the media doesn't shut up about it for 6 weeks so it seems like they happen all the time.

>>732200446
Ah ok, I see our miscommunication. I'm not an An-Cap, and I hold property rights to come from natural law rather than ability to use force. I guess I didn't make that clear.

>>732200530
How will someone produce one? Where will you get your hand on one? Do you know how to aim and fire a nuclear missile? I suppose you could plant it as a bomb without much effort, but there is still the problem of the amount of effort required to do so. Who is gonna feed you while you endeavor to blow someone else up?

You guys should really read about how all the other civilizations thought bring some was be the answer too humans love to be controlled mainly because we don't know how can to act as one someone or something will always assert it's Superiority

>>732200431
That was kinda the point. People that talk like that "muh guns" are generally retarded and douchebags. They are the kind of people that voted for our current president. You know the one that will take a good country and turn it into a chaotic wasteland with nonsensical laws and policies.

>>732199825
Why do you assume I'm not a scientist? And what makes you think scientist would take the likes of you along with them? >>732200414

>>732200266
If you think thats what it means, youre the problem with the world. We cant do anything about the one thing we all know is going to lead to critical issues in the future because anon thinks our economy will be wrecked if we do anything about it. Dumb dumb dumb. Our economy will be worse if we need to fight resourse wars and down town districts in most of our major cities are flooding regularly and most of the population cant get home insurance or everyone migrates to a new fucking place. Grow up. We need some teeth in an international agreement, GOP is the only thing holding the world back and people like you are the reason why the gop has any power. You and your stupid misguided, probably steven crowder loving opinions

>>732200523
>When you accept your master's clothing and food, you accept the chains and plantation work that come with it. Get with the program; slavery is the Social Contract you were born into!

>>732200474
So you have a car? Did you build that yourself too? What about the public roads after your driveway?

>>732200474
And your driveway connects to what exactly?

>>732200760
Even if it comes from natural law (please point to where in nature this comes from) it begs the question, what is it and how do we agree on it. Even locke understood this, read a fucking book you moron

>>732200969
You don't HAVE to accept it though. The government will not chain and jail you if you square up, quit your job and fuckoff to be a mountain man

>>732200530
They are a bargaining chip. South Africa created nukes just to get the world to pay them to decommission them. Rumor is they sold them to
Israel.

>>732200685
>None of these are possible with no government.
Fucking WHAT?
My doctor is a friend of mine. I till her garden, and she checks my kids when they're sick. You're saying I'm so incapable of navigating my own life that I need a grownup to hold my hand? Do you deny the existence of private transactions entirely?

3 billion years lasts exactly 3 billion years, I'm pretty sure I've got the perspective on it. Do you have any perspective on how many species and how much life have been wiped out due to natural phenomenon? ALL of that percentage figure. Humans will be an exception of the rarest order.

>>732200798
It can only be done if they have a vest with a label government on it, youre right. jesus youre stupid.

>>732200499
>>732200499
And not renewable. Whales have hella long lives. Now if you were talking about cockroach oil we might be on to something

>>732200760
>I hold property rights to come from natural law rather than ability to use force

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>732201096
Property rights are very clear and evident in nature. Animals claim territory and resources all of the time. They even trade goods and services with each other

>>732200523
The constitution says only apportioned taxes are legal. There are taxes (like income tax) which are apportioned, so they aren't legal, they are technically theft. The "government" can't just do whatever it wants.

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>>732184282
>get in, pussy
>draws a Glock

Replace that plastic toy for a real american weapon

>>732201201
Cool, so do you pay taxes? And if so, do you generate income in the form of government currency?

>>732201048
>>732201005
>The government did something
>Clearly this means no other entity in the world is capable of doing that thing!

The other roads I drive on were built by contractors (aka companies), using money that came from individuals. And from companies.

>>732201207
Are you retarded or something? Humans beings ARE A PART OF THE NATURAL ORDER. The idea that humans are "unnatural" is an abstract construct of human arrogance. Everything we do is as natural as the beaver building a dam

>>732200741
Including suicides in gun deaths makes sense because most people that attempt suicide by a method other than a gun, fail and many of them go on to productive lives. If you got rid of the guns then you just admitted that you could literally save 20,000 lives a year.

>>732201273
if you think property rights is nothing but a subjective claim, youre a true idiot. Read something on the matter outside of the libertarian bubble, for all of our sake. I dont have enough time to waste on your poor soul. Animals have property mrights, kek

>>732201096
Wait - are you using the correct definition of Natural Law? That doesn't mean such laws grow on a shrub.

>>732201554
Must be why Japan, a gun free society, has a much higher suicide rate than USA.

Your logic is flawless...

>>732201201

You do need a grownup. Where did the doctor get the resources to learn how to do real surgery, to get an MRI machine, where did she get medications? She made it all herself, yea? How about the research to make antibiotics or literally anything else?

And if she formed some sort of co-op with other doctors to do that shit, that's government again.

I guess if she just gave you some home remedy and did a little bloodletting that'd be fine and you'd be right, but I hope you don't enjoy living then.

>>732201130
>The government will not chain and jail you if you square up, quit your job and fuckoff
Oh dear. History class will not be kind to you.

>>732201517
Have fun in your toll road nightmare.

>>732201220
So do you accept my point seeing as you failed to refute it? Without organized government, one cannot create state-sized force without an incredible level of difficulty. A scientist would starve before successfully creating a nuclear weapon, unless someone else used their surplus productive labour to feed him.

>>732201259
Nice counter argument. Tip that fedora.

>>732201554
Anything to avoid talking about how the majority of gun homicides are committed by blacks. Who cares if approximately 13% of the population is causing over 50% of the problem. We wouldn't' want to be racists...

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>>732200474

>>732201248
That doesn't mean it isn't renewable. Using whale oil would be hella retarded though, there is much more mileage is plant-based fuels like biodiesel. Plants can be easily mass produced

>>732201381
I try to avoid either of those things as much as possible. If you insist that I am paying SOME taxes anyway, no matter what, then that kinda reinforces my point that the State is too big and overreaches too much into our lives.

>>732201546
Point out a previous species that has done something beyond humans in the short amount of time in the past 250,000 years of its existence? I never assumed humans were special, you assumed that I did. I just stated that they are cancerous species to the environment around them. Just like mosquitoes are an unnecessary annoyance, so are fruit flies, and homo sapiens (especially those such as yourself). Don't be mad at me, be mad at the reality of your species on inevitable demise.

>>732201570
Enlighten me, oh great and wise leader. What are property rights?

>>732200499
The Saudi oil minister said the will be an exporter of solar power by 2050.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-21/saudi-arabia-oil-minister-sees-day-when-nation-exports-gigawatts

>>732201638
Learn2read
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/risk/

>>732201996
Ants. They outnumber us and outweigh us. Your conviction that human beings are soooo powerfully destructive is equally as arrogant as the people who think humans are great. We has gone far only by our own biased standards

>>732201954
>>732201248

Algae based plant oil
Algae is the fastest growing plant
Certain species are single celled and can be grown in liquid cultures like bacteria
Algae does not have a growing season, it grows year round
Sewage and waste water can be used
It does not require farm land
It does not consume a crop that would otherwise be used as food like corn based ethanol does. This drives up the global price of corn and really punishes poor people.

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>>732201273
Hopefully the dumbest thing you'll read this week. Animals exchanging goods & services with each other, sure thing buddy.

Fortunately the libertarian brain trust is in change of exactly nothing, lest it bankrupt us all.

>>732201660
It... seems like you're conflating the terms "government" and "hierarchical social organization". Not every example of the latter is necessarily the former. A hierarchical social organization that one enters into without consent, and that (ideally) works for the mutual good of all members might be one definition of the term "family." An H.S.O. that is entered voluntarily, and makes exchanges for mutual benefit both inside and outside, is one way to define a "company." I'm only talking about States.

>>732184282
At least until all non-whites die off. Which is probably never.

>>732201992
Ill be straight with you now. I was kind of playing devil's advocate. If you really live the way you say that you do and pay anything other than minimal taxes proportional to the minimal benefit you receive from the government (the public road, etc) then yes the government is overreaching. I personally believe that the government has far too much interference in our lives and takes more than it needs in taxes. I just also think that people who just whine that taxation is theft don't see the benefits taxation brings to them

>>732201851
I'm pretty sure that noone in this entire thread mentioned race until you.

You care to mention that the victims are overwhelmingly black as well?
Blacks are disproportionately represented as both homicide victims and offenders. The
victimization rates for blacks were 6 times higher than those for whites. The offending rates
for blacks were more than 7 times higher the rates for whites.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htius.pdf

>>732201927
See
>>732201517
>The government did something
>Clearly this means no other entity in the world is capable of doing that thing!

>>732200698
I know that most of the atmospheric co2 comes from the oceans. How you going to fix that? How about all of the volcanic activity around the ring of fire? Plug them up? You ever see the movie Snowpiercer? They were arrogant idiots too.

>>732202304
Says the niggertarian.

>>732201954
That does mean it is not renewable. Renewable means that you can replenish the supply at the rate of consumption. That is not true with whales, nor is it true with crude petroleum

>>732202265
Yeah it's a great idea. I remember reading this paper about using CO2 emissions in a vat with an algae that produces diesel from light and CO2

>>732184282
At the moment we the people cannot cooperate.
We haven't even solved the SJW mental illness.
We need a way to cooperate, communicate.
A way is stable against special interest fuckers.
We need a way to cooperate again as men.
And we need a way to integrate the other half of the population.
Solve their thinking problem and make them into productive members of society.
And we need to control our own sociopaths, which far to often become managers.
Until we have solved such minor tasks.
There is no way we can get rid of a government.

>>732202309

> A hierarchical social organization

A government. Where your actions are to some degree influenced by said social organization. You all agree, hey, let's do X because that will benefit us and you work together to do X. Grats, that's government.

Government isn't just this big huge scary administrative body, it's any organization of people.

>>732187768

It's something different entirely.

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>>732202184
>l2read

Hasn't read the largest, most comprehensive gun study of all time conducted by Obama.

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3

One that concluded:
"Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies."

"Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008."

"The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths. Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons.” The report also notes, “Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010."

TLDR
Guns are the most effective self defense method
Guns are used at the very least 40% more for defense than they are for crime, and potentially 10X more for defense if the 3 million figure is accurate. In the past 30 years there have only been about 1,000 killed and wounded in mass shootings combined.

Must be some NRA shill study, oh wait, it was Obama...

>>732200446
If one owns themselves, then by any transitive property of the extension of their labor and body, they own the fruits of that body. This is not normative. This is logic.

>>732202520
I think you have that backwards, the oceans are a sink for c02, not a source.
Source: google.

>>732202304
Not even sure what exactly you are trying to say, but if you don't think animals trade than animals in general must be a mystery to you. Fruit bats exchange blowjobs for fruit. Crocodiles allow birds to clean their teeth in exchange for food. The list goes on

>>732202437
>I just also think that people who just whine that taxation is theft don't see the benefits taxation brings to them
Oh, to be sure, there's some turnaround of tax money into public benefit. My brother, for example, lives in a US state that is very authoritarian, but they have a beautiful public park down the street, and snowplows are active early each morning all winter.
I am just claiming that cutting out the middleman and going straight to private enterprise in as many cases as possible would be both more efficient and more moral.
Also - though Liberty and Prosperity walk the same road together for a long, long way! - there comes a point where the two must necessarily diverge. When that inevitably happens, I'm more inclined to give weight to Liberty, and it bugs me that so many Americans just default to Prosperity without seemingly giving it any thought.

>>732202186
Name one other species with nuclear arsenals that an can wipe every other species on the planet and developed biological weapons or send themselves into the vacuum of space. I'll be waiting. Ants are a primitive and simplistic creature that evolved to support the queen. Homo sapiens are robustly different and there's no denying that. Just because the ant population weighs move collectively means nothing. Mass does not equate intelligence. Species with larger and heavier brains are far less technologically advanced than you homo sapiens.

>>732201517
Oh I see. So none of the funding came from the government taxing those individuals? Did your neighborhood just come together and agree to pay to build a road? Did one of the neighbours refuse?

>>732202795
Did you read the part where gun owners are more likely to be injured with their own gun? You are cherry picking a statistic that only involved gun carrying people being assaulted, which is rare.
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/160/10/929/140858/Guns-in-the-Home-and-Risk-of-a-Violent-Death-in
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suicide-homicide-risk/
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-ownership-and-use/

Took me all of 3 seconds to find this.
Goodnight faggots.

>>732186732
The market is disrupted by interest money.
As long as out money is based on dept we work for the rich.
We could have solutions like "Freigeld" with basic income.
Would be an easy change, we could even tag the basic income with 90% if we think people will get lazy.

But at the moment most of the prices are there to repay some artificial interest.

Money doesn't exist in the real world.
But we are all working for the people who have a lot of it.
And I'm talking about interest not earned money because of being a clever business man .

>>732203092
Yes, you are right. Humans are the best at being humans. We are the best with tools and so we built the best tools. Do you see where the bias comes in? You are measuring the worth of other creatures based on a human metric. Humans are unique, but only as unique as nearly every other organism. We can also do headstands, a feat reproduced only by dung beetles and elephants

>>732202735
OK, so what term can we use to mean "a governing body that claims exclusive control over certain functions in a certain geographic area, chiefly the ability to tax, the ability to mete out criminal justice, and frequently, a monopoly on the use of force esp. in pursuit of those two ends"? I suggest we say "State" so we don't get confused.

>>732187135
It's the interest which fucks things up.
It necessarily increases the wealth gap, till a society breaks or the system breaks.

>>732203392

That's a government.

>>732197366
Touchés.

>>732202660
Well all that depends on the rate of consumption you moron. If everyone moves to solar tomorrow, suddenly oil has become renewable. If we can replenish whale oil as fast as it is used, it is renewable.

>>732203123
We're saying the same thing, I'm just saying it in a way that points out the .gov didn't use either its own money, or its own machines. It used the people's money, and some company's equipment. The State has no resources of its own, it can only take.

>>732197824
But, hey, Governor Moonbeam figured out how to deport the Rev. Jim Jones. Right?

>>732184282

What are you, a fucking commie?

>>732184791
>implying the electoral college wouldn't fuck us no matter how we voted

>>732203005
Couldn't agree with you more. I will choose liberty over security in most things. There are only a handful of things that governments are better equipped to handle than individuals

Homie this ain't pol

>>732198287
If there is no debt there is no money.
That's the problem with this system.
Either the government is in debt or the people are in dept or there is no money.
That's how our money works.

>>732203492
But the guy I was responding to was also using the term "goveenment" to mean everything from the Boy Scout Troop to the 7-11 corporation to the chancel choir to the Mafia. I am trying to have a discussion about just the subset of these entities that would appear in a world atlas: a Nation.

>>732203674
And give? Didnt you folks get a road out of it? The role of the governments was to pool resources from people who might not agree and create something that benefits all of them. Of course they often fail at this role, but that is their general purpose

>>732203225
Yes, and pools increase your risk of drowning
Driving a car increases your risk of being in a car wreck.

>>732203488
I actually think this is something the muslims got right. Chargin interest is illegal. Which makes sense considering you are taking money without producing anything

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>>732202304

>>732200130
You are an idiot if you think you could have property, without an government to enforce it.

You can control the stuff in your vicinity.
But when you leave "your" home, and then come back. It is now the home of someone else who lives there happily.
The only thing which prevents this from happening is a government for which you part a part of your property in the form of tax to keep the rest.

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>>732204123
yeah democrat policies work great

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>>732203225

>>732201259
this anon get's it.

>>732184282
>Implying most people aren't retarded/stupid
I wouldn't trust most 'people' any more than the government, the government is made up people anyway, no escaping that.

You can't trust people, people vote for the Nazis and listen to coldplay.

>>732203993

A nation is a group of people in a like culture and mindset.

A state is a geographical area administered by a government.

A government is any organization of people that make rules regarding their interactions.

So to give an example of each, Kurds are a nation, Iraq is a state, everything from a Boy Scout troop to a council of tribal elders to the Mafia to the state government is a form of government.

>>732203372
You're missing the point entirely. I'm saying humans are unique in that their most recognizable feat is that they live completely out of sync with the planet and other species are an the only species who cannot coexist with the environment around them. Other species adapt to survive, humans adapt to take. Fuck head stands and dung beetles, humans are into scat play while standing on their heads which is posted on this very forum. Nothing else in history on the planet has rivaled the level of intelligence of the species and yet for what it's accomplished; the foundation of MOST human's philosophy is based on pseudo-realities such as gods, money, mantras based on gods and obedience, etc. The financial system is a gimmick like so many other realities. You have humans capable of discerning cosmic background radiation to figure out that existence itself came from a singularity and not a 2,000 year old bronze age man made god yet you still chose to exist in a fallacy of an existence. Ultimately it's about a species with such great potential yet one that intentionally uses it greatest asset, the mind. That's why you deserve to be wiped from the face of existence, which will happen eventually if you continue on this path.

Do you really believe the collective minds of the most out of touch, arrogant, privileged, and pompous group of human beings on the planet can be trusted to choose a random person to lead a social structure meant on keeping peaceful existence?


If you are advocating for anarchy, anarchy is impossible, humans are social animals that have evolved a clan/pecking order system. Interaction between individuals requires the necessity of a greater system to preform in a progressive manner (otherwise we will all be living in huts). This must be done through a series of laws and, yes, obligitary leadership. It's how we are wired.

if we get rid of the government then clan/tribal/mafia warfare will take it's place and we will be back to square one.. feudal era.

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>>732204461

>>732204461
mainstream music and mainstream media in general always reminds me how fucking idiotic the average person is

I wish I could find the clip of "The View" from like 10+ years ago when they polled the audience and the majority thought the sun was closer than the moon because it is larger in the sky.

>>732204638
There should be a short multiple choice on the ballot. Get any of the questions wrong and your vote doesn't count. Have a basic math problem on there, a basic science questions, and a basic American history question. Nothing crazy, like 3rd grade level shit. But it will filter out the total retards.

Don't know basic math, science, and history? Then you don't get to vote!

>>732204838
You're disenfranchising morons.
Morons have rights too.

>>732204461
Yeah but they are more manageable one at a time rather than with consolidated power

>>732204586
What is the basis for your belief that other organisms are more "in sync" with their environment? Every creature has a niche that they have evolved to fill. Humans included. Believe it or not we evolved our intelligence because it helped us thrive and reproduce. Same with our culture and technology. As much as your emo ass would like to believe it, we are no different from anything else. We are simple victims of circumstance. We're born, we mature, we reproduce, and we die. That is what we are best at, what any successful species is best at. All the other stuff is just piffle

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>>732196753
get a grip on reality you fucking queer

>>732204838
Did you know that America used to have a test to vote? Did you know this test was used to disenfranchise people (specifically niggers)? You shouldnt be voting if you trust those currently in power to pick who gets to choose who is in power.

>>732202487
plenty of other entities can do it, but none of them will do it for free; the point is, he needed somebody else to provide all of those things, and it happens that the government did it. he couldn't have afforded to pay for all that himself (and he doesn't have the expertise to do it himself).

>>732185613
>roads

Private industry, buddy. Faster and cheaper than your state's road crew,

>Relief
Military and, again, private entities. Ideally though, not Hillary's friends who got the Haiti contracts

>Illegal Immigrants
Texans

>>732186238
There's a big difference between anarchy and liberty

>>732205847
private industry is only going to build the roads that are profitable -- good luck getting roads built or repaired in rural areas.

>>732184282
Any form of concurrent politics does not work, because there is absolutely no incentive to do a good job.

On the other hand, no better system will emerge anytime soon, because we are all kept docile, because we are indoctrinated to focus on small personal goals, instead of looking at the bigger picture of humanity as a whole.

>>732205847
Kek. You are protesting building public, demonstrably useful infrastructure, but are totally okay with funding some rich fuck's proxy war

>>732197743
>Person who doesn't understand libertarianism detected

>>732206139
The thing I dont get is that people tout "the market will drive better outcomes for the consumer" when that is not the goal of private enterprise. The goal is profit. For proper governmental corporations or services, they don't operate on a for-profit basis. They put the service and tax payer first, with making enough money to support itself the next priority

>>732200130
>What is "social contract"

>>732190328
On the bright side, a civil war between gun people and anti-gun people will be very short and one-sided.

>>732184791
>>732184282
Anarchists laarping. OP's sentiments are true, but you faggot don't understand it. It doesn't matter who gets elected, Trump was the one that was actually for small government and cleaning up the states. That's it, the real problem are the people who are dependent and can't sort out their own problems like so many of the population . The answer is responsibility and self discipline, but you idiots don't realize it already does exist. Those people that followed the tried and true are successful and respectively so because they value those ethics. Reality is not everyone can be successful because many people are irresponsible and undisciplined. You can vote, but vote less government and less taxes. The rest is common sense. Don't make the lazy population more lazy and dependent. That's what big governments want.

>>732184282
Lead by example, retard. Not every government is as infantile, incompetent and corrupt as America's, but it has put itself on display to the rest of the actual free world an example of what not to do. Sadly Americans do not have the basic intelligence to learn from history nor free themselves from partisan bias and identity politics, such that soon enough they will kill themselves off for their imaginary second identities. Good riddance.

>>732206074
The people who live in rural areas are more than capable of building their own roads. Many county roads are currently maintained by whichever neighbor wants to put the blade on their tractor.

>>732206355
I'm not protesting building of infrastructure at all. And which war are you referring to?

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op is right

>>732209181
Vietnam. Gulf War. Any number of skirmishes

>>732209791
Still not making the connection of how I supported that. Care to clarify?