Alright /b/ prove to me the health care repeal is a good thing.

From an outsiders perspecitve (german), I think the main problem is factionalism within both parties. A reliable health care system should last for a few decades. Therefore, Reps and Dems have to work together to achieve sth. which both sides can live with. Otherwise, there would be a change not only within the system, but OF the system ITSELF everytime the governing party switches. Bad!

>>731893874

Healthcare repeal isn't a terrible idea, so long as it's replaced with something good.

The GOP bill is fucking GARBAGE. It does nothing for any American but net a nice tax break for billionaire and return power of life or death to HMOs and PPOs (their bogus "pre-existing conditions" are the reason we needed ACA in the first place). It WILL throw 24 million insured Americans off healthcare (that's per the CBO). And it WILL kill millions of Americans. These are simple, obvious facts.

In fact, the GOP's bill is so godawful, it should really be considered an enemy attack on the American people by a terrorist organization (Republicans).

If it passes (it won't), but if it does, I hope people storm the gates of Congress and put the GOP members to death, French Revolution style.

>>731893874
can't cause it's not.

it's only being done for two reasons. First, they made a promise for years to "repeal Obamacare" so they have to do that somehow, but they don't have any good ideas about what to do instead. So they're just proposing some garbage just so they can say they got rid of Obamacare. Second, it amounts to lots of tax cuts for the rich, which they always like no matter what. Other than these two things it serves no purpose. It's just changing to a worse version of Obamacare.

>>731894425

>The GOP bill is fucking GARBAGE. It does nothing for any American but net a nice tax break for billionaire and return power of life or death to HMOs and PPOs (their bogus "pre-existing conditions" are the reason we needed ACA in the first place). It WILL throw 24 million insured Americans off healthcare (that's per the CBO). And it WILL kill millions of Americans. These are simple, obvious facts

Break this down, explain how and what in it will cause this.

I don't doubt you, I just want it broken down and elaborated. At this point, it just feels like that being said is just hype.

>>731893874
So the repeal of the Affordable Care Act is a good thing to me. The idea behind it was that "if everybody got insurance, then premiums would be low and everyone could afford health care"

What ended up happening was younger people (myself included) didn't feel like paying for something they felt they didn't need (yes, I understand what fucking health insurance is for). Which resulted in super high and unaffordable rates.

What hes doing is allowing insurance companies to charge based on the individual (healthy people get lower rates while old and cancerfags get dicked). Long term, it'll pay off greatly. Short term, sick people get financially rekt. I think too many people look at the short term when making decisions in politics though.

>>731894860
Also younger peiple not getting health insurance is why they started to penalize people who didn't have it.

>>731893874
Because no matter how you word stealing people money to redistribute it to services they may not benefit from at all is immoral and wrong. Benefiting from the sweat of your neighbors brown by force is wrong.

>>731894860

So the entire idea of this repeal is to make it so insurance companies can charge based on individuals? I'm guessing that means at the moment they have to give everyone the same rate?

I guess I could see that being better in the long term and crazy bad in the short term.

But why can't people who can't afford health care just stay on ACA?

>>731894860
>(healthy people get lower rates while old and cancerfags get dicked)
>Long term, it'll pay off greatly.

Bullshit.
This is the OPPOSITE of insurance.
This is how it works WITHOUT insurance.

Insurance works because the people who don't need it pay for the people who will need it.

Otherwise - you're just paying for your own healthcare.

>>731895083
Right, and insurance companies dislike this because they liked tje fact that the government was trying to force everyone to get health care. It means they would have busniess.

Because Obama Care is also crazy expensive. Everyone I know on it pays around $750 a month for them and their family.

>>731895217
Lol why would an insurance company charge someone who is about to die $20 a month (or whatever rate you think is low) when they'll have to end up paying their hospital bills?

>>731893874
>I want the actual logical reason behind it.
No, you don't. You are fact immune and want a fight. Mark Twain said it best "Never get into an argument with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
That's why when an idiot says something, I do nothing but laugh and walk away.

I work as a technologist in a specialized medical lab, and all I can say is since Obama care/aca we have had a huge influx of patients. Many more people actually able to afford some if these specialized medical tests that they could not afford before.

However, since there are so many more patients, people do have to wait longer, and results take longer to come back.

What's better, what's the answer? I have no idea, but something needs to be done, and I hope people can put the politics bullshit behind them to actually work out a good solution. Anyone who thinks we have a good system here in he states has not spent much time in the healthcare system. Unless maybe your a shit doctor who basically gets paid a shit ton just for your fucking signiture after all the work is done for you when it gets to you.

>be me
>be grown up, old enough to be you fucks father
>save up money to live on
>quit employer job, become independent contractor
>life is better
>have to get on ACA Obamacare tho
>average plan, $600/month in my state
>show lower income as contractor
>govt subsidy takes it down to $150/month
>get sick
>go in for out-patient surgical treatment
>get better
>my cost: $0.00
>zero fucking dollars

ACA is great.

Trumpcare would make my lose my subsidy so insurance would become unaffordable as a contractor

I'd have to go back to an employer-based job

I would be less productive and less happy

>the more you know about American healthcare, the better ACA looks

but lets face it, since every other decent country in the world has govt-funded healthcare,
let's admit that the USA is just dumb-fuck stupid.

>>731895505

>Fact immune and want a fight

I just want some insight? I have no plans to argue with what anyone says. I might repeat and break things apart just to understand what people are saying.

>>731895582

Hmmm, then this seems to be the divide.

One guy says it costs upwards $700 but you say it's $150

Does this vary between location?
Is there another factor that dictates the cost?

>Assuming everyone is telling the truth

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>>731893874
>logical

TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ TOXXXIKKK THEMM WITH BAD DRUGZ FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL KILL MIRANDA COSGROVE IF TRUMP WILL SAY NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#FUCKYOULAWRENCE #FUCKYOUDAVID #FUCKYOUSPENCER #FUCKYOULILA #FUCKYOUCHANTAL #FUCKYOUPATCH #FUCKYOUMIKAELA #FUCKYOUJACOB

7 http://share.pho.to/9pz0f #KILLALLTHEFUCKINGMONARCHIES
5 http://share.pho.to/9gkN3 #KILLALLTHEFUCKINGMONARCHIES
3 http://share.pho.to/9gkSN #KILLALLTHEFUCKINGMONARCHIES
3 http://share.pho.to/9hWtH #KILLALLTHEFUCKINGMONARCHIES

-----

FUCK YOU, LIGHTBEARER CHRISTIAN ACADEMY!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!

I WANT TO MISBEHAVE IN SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT TO SHOUT AND YELL AND SCREAM IN SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT TO SEE CHILDREN WEARING THEIR UNDERWEAR IN SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WANT TO KICK YOU OR ONE OF YOUR STUDENTS IN THE MOTHERFUCKING ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#FUCKYOULAWRENCE #FUCKYOUDAVID #FUCKYOUSPENCER #FUCKYOULILA #FUCKYOUCHANTAL #FUCKYOUPATCH #FUCKYOUMIKAELA #FUCKYOUJACOB

7 http://share.pho.to/9pz0f #KILLALLTHEFUCKINGMONARCHIES
5 http://share.pho.to/9gkN3 #KILLALLTHEFUCKINGMONARCHIES
3 http://share.pho.to/9gkSN #KILLALLTHEFUCKINGMONARCHIES
3 http://share.pho.to/9hWtH #KILLALLTHEFUCKINGMONARCHIES

>>731895713
Well he said it was initially $600 but with proof of income they lowered it to $150.

I don't have it so I don't know the inner workings of it too much but from what I see majority it $700+ a month

>>731895713

Two major factors:

1. Some states have crippled ACA's influence with their enforcement.

2. A LOT of HMOs and PPOs raised their own rates arbitrarily when ACA was passed to make stupid people think it was the result of ACA.

>>731895586

The other guy is accusing of Sealioning- acting polite but really trolling.

Let's say you're sincere, anon. The facts have been pretty well discussed. The crux of the ACA was the individual mandate (i.e. Making everyone buy in to spread the risk, or how insurance works) and the pre-existing conditions clause.

The AHCA does away with those two things. So it makes it unaffordable, and it makes sudden illness or misfortune almost punitive. And then there's the issue with allowing the insurance firms to define a pre existing condition.

Also the language used to justify the vote has been riddled with language that's demoralizing to those who have been through medical trauma.

The real thing to get angry about? The people who voted yes get to keep their cover per the ACA. it explicitly protects the existing health care for members of congress.

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>>731895953

So why not work on this and fix it?

>>731896082
Fix it how? It's all legal to do that.

>>731896082

Well, currently we have hypercapitalist, fascist, anti-American swine who don't give a flying fuck about any Americans controlling the House and Senate, so nothing that SHOULD get done will until we fix that first.

Once sane, competent people are in charge, they'll oust the retarded orangutan and get back to fixing things for the People.

>>731896053

So basically it's going to fuck up people who currently thriving on the system as it is?

If the idea is the long term is better, why not implement something to help ease the massive bad turn out with it being repealed?

>Basically replace it with something short term that gets people off what they're on and onto something just as good

>>731896155
Idk, maybe it shouldn't be?

>>731896195
Yo no ad hominem in here.

>>731896303
Maybe it shouldn't be. Ok. Not sure where that thread goes if you pull on it.

When you say "thriving", you betray your motives and ideology. No-one "thrives". Healthcare isn't a product you can game.

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>>731896510

Why does the government just come up with something that motivates people to be healthier?

Then when the bullshit problems get fixed on their own, there's less demand to fix stuff and less expense and then gov' health care won't cost as much.

No body gets taxed as much, no one bitches as much. People actually dieing can get some help.

>If your health condition is because of a poor lifestyle and can't be proven otherwise, you don't qualify
>You're permitted help under the basis it's because of your poor lifestyle but if you show improvements within the next 30 days time period you stay on coverage as long as you keep improving

I mean, it's kind of bullshit anyone should have to pay for some fat fucks medicine because they want to eat 20 McDoubles twice a day.

I'd rather my tax dollars go to help some poor guy with cancer who just managed to start pulling his life together but gets smacked with bad luck.

>>731895453
It's pooled risk, you charge more for people of a higher risk but never more than you would pay out, we need low risk in scheme to help towards pool premiums that are used to cover expenses/payouts and to turn a profit or the whole system goes down, in short either everyone must have it or no one, anything inbetween just fucks premiums as it get weighted to either end of the risk spectrum...i'm an underwriter, this is the sort of shit we deal with on a daily basis.

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>>731894860
The only problem with this is that this is not how a society should function. Why should people with pre existing conditions be forced to suffer because they cannot afford it IF the greater soc iety CAN afford to pay for it? Which is what happens now for the most part under the ACA. This is why the ACA had to be put in place. Before this health insurance companies would just drop you if you had cancer etc or just flat out refuse to insure you if you had a pre existing condition like Cerebral Palsy ALS etc.This makes sense from the insurance companies perspective because you are not a risk, you are a guaranteed loss for the company. You would end up with MASSIVE premiums, assuming you could even find a company to insure you. It's representative of one of the kinks in the machinery of capitalism and free markets. While im usually pro freemarket systems (creates competition drives prices down etc etc) the issue is that when something that can be considered a societal need is privatized, citizens usually get the short end of the stick. This is why Electricity companies were forced to become Utilities, and essentially are overseen by the govt (in the US). Because power is seen as a Utility, or a basic human need in American Society. Healthcare works similarly. The Private healthcare system has NO DOUBT produced astounding advances in medical tech and treatment, but at the cost of these companies charging massive amounts of money for treatment etc. We need to fund payment for these treatments as a group and also inflict our will on the insurance companies via government oversight.

Sometimes big govnerement can be bad, but in this case we've ALREADY seen what the insurance companies do when there is no oversight. they fuck people over. And that wouldn't be a big deal here in America if they weren't providing a service that we deem totally necessary for every citizen.

This is also why under the ACA you are REQUIRED to have insurance or you are penalized.

>>731895083
They don't give everyone the same rate. It depends entirely on your tax situation. I was unemployed due to health reasons, but because my wife was still working, it would cost 600 dollars a month for the most basic health plan that there was, despite me being in the "credited" bracket.

Obamacare is shit. Either you want universal healthcare, or private healthcare. Not a hodgepodge of both. Instead we get a system that allows pharma companies not to have to compete with other companies outside of their states of operation.

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Hold up I got this.

>>731896082
Deadloacked shit senate and house reps who are more loyal to the lobbyists who write them checks than their consituents.

Gerrymandered county and electoral lines that unfairly skew the elections in one way or another (depending on your region, sorry lib-cucks u do it too)

Mostly it boils down to a lack of citizen activism and participation in their government couple with their representatives lack of fear of their voter base.

Basically senators house reps etc etc don't GAF about their voters and their voters apparently don't give a fuck becuase

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/popular-vote-turnout-2016/

voter turnout was a 20 year low in 2016.

Solution: Motivate people to get involved either involved peacefully or violently. I honestly think the latter is whats going to happen, but I'd like to just see some peacful reform. Doubt it tho,

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>>731897480

>>731897230
>While im usually pro freemarket systems (creates competition drives prices down etc etc) the issue is that when something that can be considered a societal need is privatized, citizens usually get the short end of the stick.

Most intelligent statement in the thread.

Almost everything you use in your life can best be obtained through the free market.

Health care is not one of those things.
Because if you get fucked over, it's not like you can walk down the street to the next shop.
You'll be dead.

>>731894425
Lmao.
Back up just in case you stupid might be contagious.

>>731897520
Pretty much this. People have been ignored for far too long and our primary parties won't put up decent candidates, and actively demonize people for voting one way or the other, or blame 3rd party candidates for losing.

>>731894860
>I think too many people look at the short term when making decisions in politics though.

Count yourself among them buddy.

>>731897717
Don't lose your job then.

>>731897792
It should either be completely subsidized, and taken out through taxes, without all the bullshit and be a flat rate, or it needs to be privatized. Obamacare is neither, nor is whatever the fuck the GOP bill is.

>>731897792
This!

The real reason why the USA will never have gov't healthcare?

The current insurance market is welfare for middle-man paper pushers.
With govt healthcare, hundreds of thousands of (useless) people will become unemployed.
Claims adjusters, actuarial analysts, the bosses and secretaries that support them, etc.

These are not useful skills. They are middlemen between the patient and the medial provider.

But the USA will not throw so many people out of work, so we are stuck with insurance.

The ACA/Obamacare plan was the best balance between having a private-insurance system with the benefits of full govt coverage.

The Trumpcare AHCA plan is just a tax cut.
Literally.
That's why they only need 51 votes to pass it in the Senate.

>>731898052
>Obamacare was the best balance between having a private insurance system with the benefits of the full govt coverage
Pretty sure that's medicare, bud.

define "good thing"

in my opinion anything that lowers the cost of health care to make it accessible to actual working, productive, non-piece-of-shit americans is a good thing

let the lazy poor rot for all I care. obamacare was so expensive i had to cancel my insurance. I work my ass off and get nothing meanwhile bums and hobos and shit get all the healthcare they need. goddamn bullshit.

>>731897873

lmao, you're a moron and that post is 100% correct. How do you take it as anything less?

>>731895871
>I WILL KILL MIRANDA COSGROVE IF TRUMP WILL SAY NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wtf just read

>>731898195
>Pretty sure that's medicare, bud.

If everyone in the USA is on medicare,
then most (all?) insurance employees will be out of work.
Medicare for all is basically the USA plan for all-govt healthcare.

Since the USA will never throw that many people off of work,
ACA/Obamacare is the best we can do.

most don't understand that the system was working before the ACA. also that the ACA fucked over a lot of small businesses that had full time employees. I has to cut my employees back to 30 hours or less.

>>731895953
>A LOT of HMOs and PPOs raised their own rates arbitrarily when ACA was passed to make stupid people think it was the result of ACA.

So they did in fact raise their rates because of the ACA?

Once fat people start feeling shame and offing themselves we wont even need the health care

>inb4spontaniouscancerpatients
You know to some degree you agree with me.
We really should have prioritized that rather then enlisting the youth for the war on lack-of-insurence

>>731893874
I don't want health insurance. Got hit for $1,400 in tax penalties this year.

Obama is the most effective mugging nigger of all time.

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OP here, proud of you faggots.
I know I'm ruining it, but I'm proud we made it this far without breaking out the memes. Pretty good read so far, seeing what people actually think rather than thinking a cluster fuck of fat idiots all drooling at the key board arguing "Republicans vs Democrats"

>>731899372

But if you got hurt, the rest of us would be paying for your broke ass because you'd go bankrupt instead of paying the hospital bill

The Obamacare penalty helps save the rest of us from your irresponsible ass.

>>731899153
>So they did in fact raise their rates because of the ACA?

>rates raised after ACA passed
>rates raised EVERY year, just like home values, etc
>rates raised LESS percentage-wise because of Obamacare

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>>731899711

>>731899635
I would just pay cash, not that I care very much. And I'm not a retard that would do something to get hurt in the first place.

>>731899698
What was anon even trying to say then?

>>731893874
First, prove to me that universal healthcare is a good thing

Protip: you cant

>>731899756
>And I'm not a retard that would do something to get hurt in the first place.

>I would never get in a car accident
>I would never get mugged by a criminal
>I would never have anything happen to me as a result of someone else

idiots

it's a right that most civilized societies recognize you thundering moron. The rich have convinced morons like you otherwise since they want a tax break.

Its estimated that 27 percent of people under 65 have a pre-existing condition under this. I have a hard time believing you don't have a mom or dad, brother or sister or uncle...I mean someone that you love that won't get fucked over by this.

And that number gets higher when you consider people over 65. But hey, I guess these people don't care about their grandparents. Cut their healthcare, cut their social security. You get to pay 1500 less in taxes.

Victory right?

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-counts-pre-existing-condition-ahca-trump-obamacare-2017-5

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>>731893874

Take a fucking look around.
Here we are in a world overpopulated and plagued by fucks who should rightfully be dead. There is no good reason to keep anybody alive. If anything our efforts should be to kill each other.

>>731899938
>I would never get in a car accident
I drive a tank of a pickup and have driven for work for decades, nothing is going to catch me off guard
>I would never get mugged by a criminal
Grew up in the city and got stuck in karate class by my mom for 5 years. 6'2" 155, bitch, try to mug me
>I would never have anything happen to me as a result of someone else
I'm always aware of who's around me

Fuck niggercare and fuck welfare and fuck you

BTW, this is just proof that the heads of the GOP aren't racist like the crybaby feminist crowd likes this think.

The GOP heads only see money and their self interests. They will completely fuck you and millions of other poor and middle class Americans over for 6 figure checks.

They will cut funding to rural Americans.
They will slash social security for the elderly(who are disproportionately white).
They will cut aid to opiod adicts(again, disproportionately white).

And the sad part is that the people who vote these assholes in are old white people who are cutting down their lifespan.

>>731900217
>this is what a lack of fresh air and sunlight does to a kid

>>731893874
It isn't a good thing.

>>731894161
Both sides working together hasnt happened since Clinton...

>>731900498
Both sides work together when big business begs for money.

>>731900544
I mean on something useful

>>731900231
>i am a perfect person who never makes a mistake and is beloved by all of mankind, I will live forever

idiots

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posting itt: idiots pretending young children never get sick

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>>731900231
>nothing is going to catch me off guard

Im sorry, sir. You have cancer.

>>731900231
my cousin dies at 16 from bone cancer. Guess he should have driven a tank of a pickup?

>>731900878
>Im sorry, sir. You have cancer.

Can't you read?
He's going to karate chop cancer.

And his tears cure all disease.
Too bad he's never cried.

>>731900231
Are you 12? Because most people realize they're mortal before they're teenagers. I really hope you're just pretending to be this dense.

>>731900917
Fuck your bitch ass cousin, you pay for his problems.

>>731901043
42

>>731900231
Oh to be young and invincible. I understand your feeling. I felt the same way ... But boy does it suck that one day life comes along and kicks you in the nuts. Testicular cancer here at the age of 32.

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>>731901044
>>731901044
wew lad

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>>731900231
confirmed for underage. Doesn't yet know anyone who died from cancer.

Hopefully he wisens up before he's old enough to vote.

>>731901058
Okay, so just stupid then.

>>731901058
>42

Oh, then, excuse me, Rep. Paul Ryan.
Thanks for explaining your health care philosophy to us.

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>>731901058
lol we asked YOUR age, not your dad's age.

>>731901149
Just not a bitch to the government.

>>731901218
Loved Willow

>>731893874

I don't know all the details. I think the big deal is that it doesn't force people to buy insurance they can't afford. There is still the risk of medical bankruptcy, but what is the point of high premiums and high deductibles? That is not a practical protection

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>>731901241
if you're worried about being someone's bitch, I got bad news for ya kiddo

Its hilarious, I see all of these threads on /b/ about net neutrality, and this healthcare bill, and the majority of people here hate it. Has /b/ turned left wing?

Or are you all smarter than the boomer dumbass Republicans who mindlessly suck their presidents dick.

Kinda like the "SUPPORT THE IRAQ WAR OR YOURE UNPATRIOTIC FREEDOM FRIES" crowd?

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>>731901314
net neutrality you say?

>>731901310
Moderate, both sides are owned by the 1%, so I ignore both.

>>731894425

The CBO hasn't commented on this bill yet

>>731901241
If you're not just baiting I want you to know you might literally be retarded. Like, not being a dick, if you are so disconnected from reality that you think nothing bad can possibly happen to you, there is a good chance you have mental health problems. Which ironically you should probably see a doctor about.

>>731901354
shallow thinkers easily become disillusioned with politics such that they start thinking all the candidates are the same, so voting doesn’t matter. Meanwhile, the far-right gets its voters out, takes power, and starts stripping society for parts.

>>731901342
Remember how its the Obamacare of the internet?

How does anyone who isn't making 200k a year or more keep getting conned into voting for these assholes.

>>731901368
Don't give a shit

>>731901357
all signs point to their response confirming garbage quality.

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>>731901432

>>731897949

Or don't pay your medical bills. Medical bills are the lowest priority bills. Pay everything else, and make payments with what's left. It's the system they created...

>>731901437
See, but I do! I care if someone lives or dies even if they disagree with me. So that's what the whole Healthcare thing comes down to, who's an asshole and who has empathy.

>>731901542
That's a waste of time friend. I like that you have a good heart though.

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>>731893874
Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care.

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>>731901542
odds are you're arguing with a bot designed by a malevolent asshole who's gone impotent and now gets his jollies off mass manipulation

>>731901676
you'd better hope you have one too. Have you any idea what bypass surgery costs "old" man?

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>>731901719
>Have you any idea what bypass surgery costs "old" man?
The real you comes out.

Why am I not surprised?

>>731901719
This is /b/. Most likely not a bot, but a real degenerate whose sole interest is in trolling liberals for the lulz.
Yes, there really are such sad, pathetic creatures in the world. /b/ used to attract a lot more of them back in the day.

>>731901719
Oh shit you're onto me, I'm a bot that gets in arguments on /b/ for "mass manipulation'

That might actually be the dumbest thing I've read on here, gg

>>731894425
>It WILL throw 24 million insured Americans off healthcare (that's per the CBO).

They were never effectively with health care in the first place. Those 24-40 million people had the bottom rung of insurance, with deductibles nearing or over 10k. In practical terms, that might as well be 100k, for all their inability to pay that kind of deductible.

The piece of shit ACA in return gave them "free" checkups and tit checks, etc. That's the shit that doesn't really matter as far as health care costs go. The real health care was priced away from them, while making them feel like they were actually insured.

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>>731901860
bitch plz

>>731901893
Sadder than that, I legitimately think at least like a third of the Trump vote was just to spite liberals.

So much malice in these people.

>>731901916
oh look it is a human. Barely, based on stated positions, but technically a human.

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>>731901860

>>731893874
I don't think it's a good thing. I think the US healthcare system has just gone from bad to worse.

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>>731893874
Flee ... move to Denmark, Sweden, Finland or some place with free healthcare .. you have no idea the security it brings in the people around you and yourself. Along with the goverment supporting you if you lose your job. It might sound like your paying for alot you dont need thru your taxes. But i cannot describe the feeling of security you get.

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>>731901860
the "real" me? Suck my long floppy foreskin you pawn.

>>731902027
I don't like either side you paid shill.

Could you and your kind just fuck off please?

>>731902053
Amerifats are intimidated by women taller than they are

Rape is going to be a pre-existing condition. So if you get raped, you better not report it if you're going to be getting health insurance.

That's fucked up. And the whole idea of medical care being dependent on your ability to pay is fucked up.

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>>731902087

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>>731902069

>>731902185
better than having a cock like a kike or a mooslim

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>>731902117
what're the odds of that happening?

>>731899698
>>rates raised LESS percentage-wise because of Obamacare

not in our case. pre-aca, our insurance rates rose about 10-20% a year. this last year alone, it jumped from 383/mo to 721/mo. the previous year went from about 240 to the afore mentioned 383.

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>>731902108
What ... taller women ... what am i not getting here lol. Are we taller than them on average or something ... and wtf does this have to do with anything.

>>731901952
That's not true at all. I'm on medicare and pay only $15 for a doctor visit, and $5 per prescription whether it's a $5 drug or a $1500 drug.
I also pay no more than $50 out of pocket for dental regardless of what needs doing.

It's all about finding the right doctor / dentist / hospital.

My only complaint is that my hospital likes to set up at least 3 visits to get anything done... that way they can bill medicare 3 times for anything.

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>>731902288
He said with his 3 teeth left, 2 stumpy arms and a kidney less than he started with.

>>731902288

that's exactly what i was talking about. the real meat of healthcare isn't the occasional doctor visit. its care in a hospital setting. try that and see what you'll pay.

This kind of thread must frustrate the paid shills so badly.

This is why I still love the 4chins.

>>731901978
They claim to hate being PC. What they really hate is just being civilized. 30 years of listening to constant "outrage" on TV and radio has demented them. Now they're just political hate and rage machines. Mindless creatures conditioned to rage at anything to the left of themselves.

Consider this. A majority of people like to think they're largely immune to propaganda. But if that were true, then why is advertising so effective? Why spend $2.4 Trillion dollar on ineffective advertising? And who has the longest running advertisement these days? FOX news and Rush Limbaugh and all the other talking heads.... They're all part of a 30 year running propaganda machine.

And here we see the results most acutely - mindless rage machines hellbent on trolling the shit out of anyone even the slightest left of themselves. Don't care if the world burns or if millions die as long as they can spite some lefty. Just look ITT for ample confirmation.

Nobody is dealing with this problem. It's going to get far worse before this is ended.

>>731902704
I am completely immune to propaganda, quite sure of that.

it's very obvious anymore, especially here.

>>731902451
Almost nothing as I would hide my assets and declare bankruptcy. I'm not a fool. I'm going to use the current rules of law to my own best advantage regardless of morals or ethics.
When it comes to money management, morality is for retards. Legality is the thing.

>>731902833
In my experience, the more strongly you believe that, the bigger your blind spot is.

I've verified this with at least dozen people - enough to convince myself of its veracity.

>>731902944
>verified this with at least dozen people - enough to convince myself
Checked and that's a dangerous way to think.

>>731893874
>>731893874
It's designed to pay for a tax cut that might stimulate the economy. Obama tried (and didn't really succeed) with a stimulus package and low interest rates. Interest rates have been cut to the bone and can't really go much lower.

Despite what Jimmy Kimmel says, his employer would have covered his child's birth defect anyway, and people die everyday based on policy decisions, whether it pleases us or not.

Its not a surprise Republicans are so prone to propaganda.

They are Christian literalists. Reminder that these idiots still took Bush seriously after he said he talked with god about invading Iraq.

>>731902704
What you are saying is true, but applies equally to the left and the right.

I love how political groups still want to rustle our nuggies.

>>731902288
Good for you (and I do mean that sincerely). But not at all fair. When I get my paycheck, your "we only pay this much, regardless of how it costs" medical plan is paid for in the form of a deduction. Unless the system is changed, I will not be eligible for the same standard of care you receive, even though I "paid into the system." Ditto with social security: it's not a future investment, it's a "tax and transfer" program. So says Robert Frank...a liberal economist.

>>731903125
The more we believe yourself immune, the less effort we make to ensure we are not influence by it.
Nobody is immune, as it takes great effort - superhuman effort - to be totally impervious to propaganda. Knowing this, you're are either spending 100% of your time and energy on preventing undue influence, (and not having any time or energy for anything else), or you're deluding yourself into thinking you're immune.

The more sure you are, the more vulnerable you become. Unless you're literally a rock or never pay any attention to anything around you.

>>731897949
This is so simple! How did anyone not know this?

>>731902844
I didn't know our God Emperor lurked here! I don't hate you, Mr. President.

>>731903447
I'm in a crawlspace right now, fixing an old lady's furnace. This shit just amuses me.

I fight theses (you) fucks at every chance I have, I find it fun.

>>731903433
>Dubs confirmed.
But I did pay into the system for 30 years. Only in the last 3 years have I needed it. And I hope to get back out there a couple years from now.

>>731903539
lol.

>>731903644
see
>>731902704
You just admitted you're another mindless rage machine.

>>731902117
The case you are referring to concerns a woman who was raped, then put on anti-HIV meds as a precaution. She then lost her health insurance. When she tried to get new insurance (still on the meds) the company that insured her jacked up her rates, because HIV-positive individuals cost more to insure.

It was not fair that she was raped, and she is not responsible for her (possible) condition, this is no different than someone who had to pay higher rates due to anti-HIV meds used as a precaution after an accidental needle stick. It isn't fair that she did not choose her condition, but think about it: who chooses to get cancer or hepatitus?

The word "rape" is used here to create shock and misdirect outrage away from a full understanding of the issue. Whether it is your fault or not, you pay higher premiums when you are likely to cost your insurance company more.

You might have been just trolling, though. In which case...well memed my friend!

>>731903773
I'm sitting in dirt and gravel, in the pitch dark luling at my phone actually.

Maybe get a real job and not shill for the 1%?

>>731903773
Fair enough point about paying in, but if you made shitty life choices, you didn't pay anywhere near the amount you took out. Medicare was changed in the 80's (by Reagan) to keep it afloat. It will likely be changed again. My outrage is not directed at you...it is directed at a system that is so politically divisive that no one will do what needs to be done.

In the UK, that shining example of nationalized healthcare, guess what happens if you need a new kidney at age 65? You don't get one and you die.

Not wishing death on you...simply pointing out that healthcare resources are limited, and we favor the elderly, when our healthcare dollar would be better spent on younger consumers. You can fact check the answer to this question: are there more people over 65 who live in poverty or more people under 12 who live in poverty? Now who gets better healthcare?

>>731893874
>repeal
>implying

What we had before was bad enough as it is. Overcomplicating healthcare further was and is never the answer

>>731903919
Just sold a $4,500 furnace to the old lady, heat exchanger was fucked.

That's a $25 commission for the guy that did all the work...

I hate this world.

>>731903447
I think you are debating the wrong issue. Immunity to propaganda doesn't keep you from making selfish choices. Check this out:

https://www.thehappymd.com/blog/bid/295228/How-Doctors-Die

>>731903919
Hey, I was an OTR trucker for 20 of those 30 years. I know what it's like to be filthy and tired and tired of being filthy and driving by hundreds of houses with that blue glow of the TV set at 9pm, knowing everyone in there is winding down for the night when I still have 7 hours of driving yet to do before I can get any sleep. Knowing my next day starts at 8am no matter how little sleep I get.

I've paid some dues and some taxes. And intend to pay some more. But I'm not some stupid cuck who thinks he should die in some gutter rather than take advantage of what's out there. I'm on medicaid now and collecting disability. But as I wrote earlier - I'm hoping I can get back out there in about 2 years.

Shilling for the 1%? Hardly. If anything, I advocate we EAT the 1%. I'm sure they will be tender after 8 hours of slow roasting. And I mean that sincerely.

>>731904247
That I have, but not the kind you think. My current situation is more about circumstances I had no hope to control (my ex died of brain cancer and left me with 2 kids to finish raising) I was working just fine with all my medical problems before that. But since I had to stay home and raise two kids, I figured I'd get paid to do it. All my medical problems are just an excuse to collect disability. I'm eating right and exercising and getting my other problems managed. So when my kids fly the nest - I'll be ready to hit the road again.
And I'm soooo looking forward to hitting the road again.

As I said, I'm no fool. I take advantage of whatever is legal when I need it. As anybody should. It's there; use it when you need it.

>>731904796
If everybody takes advantage, then somebody loses. Serious question: don't you worry about your kids? Mortality and morbidity are on the rise, and lifespans are getting shorter. Again, my critique wasn't about you...it was about the flawed system that means your children probably won't get the care you got. Doesn't that bother you? (And hey...I work a shitty job, too, for what it's worth.)

>>731904796
>Hey,
STFU bitch, I like the dark.

>>731904796
>Now that's a proper fucking American.

>>731905020
I see one of two scenarios happening. Either we end up with some form of universal health care (because this issue is not going to just go away), or the whole country goes down in a ball of rage and hate and violence. (in which case, medical care will be the least of their worries)

I would like to think that what we eventually end up with will be much better than anywhere else because we have all those examples of what works and what does not work. But I know that's just a silly little fantasy because most people writing the bills have no clue about, nor the inclination to study other systems.

>>731905456
ty

>>731905684
np

I think you are right. If we read Piketty, and look at the current political trends, most people can see where we are headed. At some point, when enough wealth is concentrated on the top, and the desperation of "the rest" takes over - we will see some kind of civil war.

Not just in the U.S, but most western countries without functioning welfare states.

>>731905957
If we go down that path, I doubt the country would ever recover. It's not just the lives lost or the devastation, but also the collapsed economy, crushing debt, foreign intervention, all those enemies we used to hold at arms length.... It's blood in the water and every shark in the world will have its fill.