Universal Basic Income Our only hope for the future?

>>731659475
Maybe. If we remove ebt and wic it would certainly streamline things.

>>731659475
Probably

>>731659475
govt will find a way to fuck it up though

>>731659475
so who pays for this badic income, and what is their incentive to continue doing so?

Well when robots remove the labor needs for simple jobs like making a burger at McDonalds, millions will be out of work with no where else to go. Universal basic income will likely be an inevitability.

>>731659475
Fucking stupid. It would not stop human greed and would just suck up a shit load of tax money.

>>731659475
What if you want more than basic income and want to be successful?

>>731659940
perhaps we can find a means of non-government supported money handouts?

>>731659475
it's inevitable
but only as a stepping stone to a society in which money isn't a thing

>>731659475
Yes, but it needs to be more sophisticated and nuanced than "just give people money from taxes on the few people who can still normally earn money" because >>731659940.

Definitely needs to be coupled with other societal and government changes. Introducing UBI into our current system would fuck everything up and ruin the whole concept for 2+ generations.

>>731660215
but what about my feelings?

>>731660241
Stop asking stupid questions, Faggot.

>>731660192
Taxpayers pay for it. Incentive is to keep unemployed on their feet until they can find work again (so they won't be as likely to turn to crime, drug addiction, etc.) along with simplifying welfare state to reduce the size of gov't bureaucracy and expenditure overall.

>>731659475
ITT: socialist spastics

The only reason capitalism is a better system than anything else is because of innovation. Implement basic income and you eliminate 99.9% of the motivation and drive necessary to innovate. What happens when we innovate? It creates jobs, service jobs. Jobs that separate you from click-click living in Africa. Don't be so fucking ignorant.

>>731660252
There are concepts out there, like giving everyone shares in the businesses which own the automated factories, but all research into the problem is limited by the fact that economic experiments are all but impossible to do with levels of rigor comparable to hard sciences. It's incredibly hard to have anything more than a basic idea of how a brand new economic system will function on a large scale until you just do it.

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>>731660457

>>731660457
What's socialist about basic income? It has nothing to do with public ownership of the means of production, which is what socialism actually is.

If anything, UBI increases economic freedom by increasing the purchasing power and independence of the unemployed and those who are too disabled to work. And these, in the capitalist system, will always exist.

>>731660192
Its made through taxes levied on businesses that use automation rather then manual labour. Their incentive is that if they dont nobidy will be able to afford to buy their shit

>>731660614
being this fucking retarded

>>731660457
aw someone triggered the suit. gona cry about not getting your annual corporate participation trophy sweetie? better get back on that ladder. it ain't gonna climb itself.

>>731660614
can't tell if trolling

I'm on social security right now. Believe me it doesn't make me want to be a parasite and just sponge it up. It's not really enough to live on. I don't have a car right now, don't drive without insurance kids. As soon as I get my licence back I'm for sure going back to work just to make more money and do something with my life.

I think everyone should get a basic income. The top 1% rich people can afford it, fuck them. How many gold plated Ferraris do they need anyway.

hurr durr, ebry 1 can hab munny 4 doin nuffin :DDD

>>731660614
It's like you read the Communist Manifesto and confused Communism for Socialism.
Nice Bait.

>>731660871
whats the matter? sharing freak you out? you were the only child of two workaholic yuppies werent you?

>>731660890
No, really. That's the actual definition of socialism. Look it up.

If we get to a future where automation and AI do like 90% of the work of agriculture, building infrastructure, and all of the necessities we need to live in this society, then yes it's a great thing.

If it's just socialism under another name then human greed will screw it all up.

Basically if over half of the workforce voluntarily retiring wouldn't completely destroy the economy, then yes it can work...but at that point we might as well just get rid of money to begin with and live in our utopian Star Trek future...

>>731659475
Perhaps when we shift to a relatively post-scarcity robot-supported society, it will be wise, even necessary. For now, I think our needs will be served best by a high minimum wage. But pushing for universal basic income would not be a turn-off to me in a politician.

>>731659475
So, you will pay thousands of dollars to rich people?

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>>731660714
What do you even mean by that dribble?
Survival of the fittest has been a law of planet Earth since life was created, if you were made weaker than your fellow man, it can often be difficult to swallow.

Equal opportunity, not equal outcomes; and i bet half of you are anti-feminist.

Won't happen, but sure. Have to school/training for an employable job. The mind numbing/destroying cycle of poverty is bad for everyone in the long run.

>>731660991
dont make him do that. he has a hard time understanding words bigger than cuck, nigger, jew, and trump.

>>731659475
Won't this just encourage the shitskins to breed out of control?

>>731660890
I can't believe I have to post this.
"socialism
ˈsəʊʃəlJz(ə)m/Submit
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

>>731661098

Yeah. Everybody gets the same basic income check. No means-testing.

>>731660991
The fact of the matter is a little bit of socialism will nessicary to keep the economy going. Imagine every single person working in a factory assembly line is out of work across the country. Shit will be fucked, likely on a scale worse then the 1930s depression

>>731661087
That's the great thing about UBI. It can actually replace the minimum wage.

Another way to think of it is the state buying up surplus labor. Let's say the government sets the UBI at $16,000/year (about what a current minimum wage worker in the US would make working 40 hours per week). What would the average person pick between working full time and doing nothing for the same amount? Most of them would pick the latter, right? This would force businesses to increase their own wages for entry-level positions or face severe labor shortages. There would be no need for a minimum wage in such a case.

>>731661199
youre the guy at a potluck who pushes old ladies out of the way to fill your plate up first and fullest aren't you?

>>731660758

What's your "disability" chief?

>>731661502
lol get a load of this "guy"

>>731661425
Socialism is necessary to keep the capitalist pigs in check... but it's light years away from viable. As far as I'm concerned, if you haven't studied economics or actually paid a substantial amount of tax, your opinion in this is completely irrelevant.

>>731659475
WTF That's the stupidest idea I've ever seen, the government will pay people to not work.

>>731661498
Only if they lived on welfare their whole lives and never paid tax. I make them fill in forms before attending.

>>731661590

"KYS?" No, really KYS.

>>731659475
It wont happen. Ebt and wic are given unfairly. Tax credits have to meet requirments.

>>731660192
AI Machines + Robots

>>731659475
They tried this when the pilgrims first came to America by storing all the food in one warehouse. Eventually people lost the incentive to work.

>>731661887
ah fuck you

>>731661887

From the Little Golden Book of "History I Just Pulled Outta My Ass"

>>731661761
hehe triggering confirmed! :)

Massive fucking sigh. The problem that nobody wants to talk about it the out of control population. There are too many people for this type of economy. The harsh reality is that many people have to die.

>>731662245
1996 called, they want marilyn manson back.

>>731659475
>Jewish mind control illustrated

>>731661623
Not really how it works. The most viable interpretations of this idea I've seen involve giving just enough to get by, but not dropping it off for people who are employed. So you could live a shit life entirely on the dole if that's really how you wanna roll, but it's not like you'll lose it if you pick up a job. Our current unemployment benefits and a bunch of similar benefit systems discourage people from getting jobs or even trap them in an unemployed state, but the more intelligent varieties of universal income don't have that flaw.

>>731662245
>There are too many people for this type of economy

Explain.

>>731660457
>>731660618
>>731660670
>>731660890
>>731661080
>>731661298
>>731661341
>>731661425
>>731661623

>knowing the dictionary definition of socialism
>not knowing that every modern economy uses a mix of capitalism and socialism

Economic textbooks are not covered in anhydrous acids, waiting to burn you when you touch them. It really is ok to be republican and read an economics textbook once in your fucking life. Then you might not look like such a complete moron.

>>731662245
But nonwhites aren't people anon.

>>731662653
Most poor people in the US are white. Try again.

>>731662512
Not him but he probably means
>not enough real commodities on the planet to back the liquidity of the FIAT MONEY of the world's nations. There is literally too much money and not enough "Stuff" on the planet to back it (let alone precious metals).

>>731662530
i was tagged in this, but youve got a point. a pure socialist or pure capitalist government is a disaster. i remember reading about that a lot in economics.

im being kind of a dick to everyone in this thread. i know its not cool to do this on 4chan, but i'm sorry. im just being a trolling sack of shit to relieve stress from real life.

anyway, thanks for putting me in my place. needed it.

>>731661614
You dont need a degree in economics to read the writing on the wall. The majority of the job loss in the automotive sector has been due to automation rather then jobs moving to mexico. If this keeps up and spreads to other sectors of the economy, which it undoubtedly will, the future will be extremely bleak. Universal income will mean that those whos jobs are displaced by automation can still be active participants in the economy

>>731662245
Unless you're volunteering, that's a bullshit thing to say

>>731662245
Tell the Christian missionaries in Africa to stop discouraging birth control. We have our shit together in many ways, and there would be a lot less to worry about if we stopped preventing other regions from getting their shit together too.

>>731662754
Based on what calculations?

>>731660328
Gah damn edgelords. That was actually a good ass question. What if I want more than this basic income? Stop being a try-hard asshole. Nobody likes those /b/ro

>>731662749
The nonwhite population is what's growing. Whites are below replacement rate.

Whites (and some Asians) are capable of leveling off population growth.

>>731662754

And when more automation and AI take the place of people, then what?

>>731660241
listen at 1.52 on he answers your question quite well i think

>>731662848
>calculations
Sense. Do you understand what FIAT money is, and how it comes into existence? Do you have a general idea of how much liquid FIAT money exists? Unless we price dirt @$77B/tonne, precise values are inconsequential to the point.

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Andy Sixx will provide food for everyone, so no one will have to buy food.

>>731662806
There's also a huge amount of foreign aid (governmental and otherwise) flowing in. It's what allows most African nations to buy food, since niggers cannot into agriculture.

>>731662759
>(unexpected mature response)

Dear diary: I met a sentient being today.

>>731660241
Get a job. UBI is mostly for short-term unemployed, people who are too disabled or old or mentally fucked up to work. If you don't want to waste your life on a shitty foodservice job making slightly more than UBI, then you can expand your education and the state will take care of you while you do.

>>731663022
You mean when the collective intellect of humans is degraded to the point that it meets the level of AI advancement? Well, 'what then' will hardly be a concern compared to how the former has possibly come to be.

>>731660419
>Bribe people to not commit crime.
>Simplying welfare by giving out more of it, which will reduce the size of government by not having as many government jobs, therefore, creating more dependency and expenditure...


Wat.

>>731662806

Right. Religious delusion has been causing children to be born into starvation. Population bloat. Etc.

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>>731663106

Andy Sixx needs an enema

and a UBI check

>>731663075
I know what fiat money is, smartass. I'm skeptical of the claim that there aren't enough commodities in the world to cover the amount of money in circulation. Where are you getting that from?

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Andy Sixx is doing lots of big things these days

>>731662749
This is a bullshit statistic; I don't even have to look it up to know that. Blacks aren't going to contribute at all because 1: They're lazy as fuck 2: Have no shame and thus have no problem living on handouts and 3: Have an enormous sense of entitlement that would also cause them to leach off the system much like they do now.

>>731662754

Destroy money.

>>731663287
>starvation.
Be africans. Live well for hundreds of thousands of years. Suddenly in the age of weather control, bioweapon diseases and money grubbing television charities showing only adject poverty, they're suddenly barely surviving. Hmmm.

>>731662996
So, in 30 years, your statement will be correct. Nice attempt at damage control. Next time, if you mean it, say it.

>>731662795

Nothing wrong with volunteering. Except you don't get paid.

>>731663609
As it is now, worthless JEWISH LEGAL NOTES yes, I agree.

>>731663261
It's not bribery, shitbrain. Criminal activity is closely tied to poverty and economic instability. This is a concept that is neither novel nor controversial. Most welfare states consist of multiple different programs that are designed around a specific, narrowly defined goal (ie. food assistance, childcare, housing, temporary employment) one of the goals of UBI is to consolidate these into a single program that tackles the broad goal of reducing overall poverty by means of cash payments to the most vulnerable citizens. In this way, we hope, we can shrink the overall government footprint on the economy by reducing the number of people involved in maintaining the welfare state.

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>push for UBI in case automation puts everyone out of a job
>government never supports it
>muh work ethic
>never gets implemented
>robots take our jobs anyway
>???

>>731663348
Dude, all of the gold ever mined on earth would make a cube slightly over 20m long. Platinum is even more rare

>>731663797
Plenty of Corporate Jews ready to cash in on the free labour. This is why they speak so highly of volunteering, because it's free work. It's usuring stupid newfags before they get a clue. Some of those goy newfags never even get the clue.

id befor universal income if we removed all niggers from existence

>>731663735

And they are simply not able to create an economy to survive. Yeah, the tyrannical shit as well. In the meantime...BIRTH CONTROL.

>>731660192
I do (govt. contractor, NSF) and we'll do it because we love science and want to figure the fuck out of shit. Whether you're a researcher or a test subject, you can help figure it out. Also, I swear to fuck I've got all the problems fixed with 1984 just trust your robot they will replace the police chill rite?

>>731661392
Well, at least you're consistent.

>>731663914
News flash, fuckboi, gold and platinum aren't the only valuable resources on the planet. Please tell me that's not the best argument you have.

>>731663394
Yeah, but, if blacks are lazy, then who are losing their jobs to machines? Working white people. Go check out a coal mining or manufacturing town.

Seriously, quit trying to mix racism with socioeconomics. You only know one of those subjects.

>>731661447
This ^

>>731663818

HesRightYouKnow.jpg

>>731659475
you mean communism. statism is what you are indoctrinated into. grow up. don't be a doofus

>>731663166
faggot

>>731664006
>I kid you not, Americans fire depleted Uranium bullets!

"americans"

depeleted uranium rounds are special purpose and are used by all world militaries. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. By the way, our standard army rounds have molybdenum bullets now, as not to pollute the environment.

>>731659475
>Universal Basic Income
>Our only hope for the future?


If money is free then the money you get for free is worthless.

>>731663394
UBI might actually be a good solution to the welfare problem. If each adult only gets a fixed basic income INSTEAD OF a payment for each niglet, it would reduce their ability to provide for their many offspring.

>>731664383
>t. 8th grade dropout

Not until the robots take over
And then we won't be needed anyway.
Humanity is a stepping stone to actual civilization, the last of the lizard brains. Once we unlock how to build a conscious being superior to ourselves the world will be a better place. Humanity is nearing its natural limits.

>>731664006

I'm more for the prevention of unwanted, excess humans. Conception should be extremely difficult, and not a "right". Yes, pay people to get sterilized.

>>731664367
bro don't trip over the blowbot, your reply link has more chance of bringing someone in than it's comment... it's not even human.

>>731664457
I'm not that guy and I'm a little drunk, but wouldn't universal income lead to an eventual inflation of prices that would make it worthless? Assuming free markets remain.

>>731664503
I remember someone on 4chan saying to offer people a small fortune like $10k to get them sterilized

>>731659475
ITT morons who never took even basic economics who think they are entitled to an opinion on economics because feelings

Or OP is a master baiter

Basic income is fine if you just want to eat cheetos and jack off... but what if you are a fucking egomaniac and NEED to be able to accumulate wealth? Basic income is a decent idea... were it not for the fact that if we are ever in that scenario... it means that we have billions of people depending on the government to live...

>>731664600

They're are people who would do it for a lot less.
Druggies. Mentally deficient. People who just should not procreate.

>>731660192

Since all of your jobs are going to be done by robots within the next 20 years, probably the companies that own everything. A basic income is going to be necessary for people to even buy shit. Its really not going to be long before half the population is unemployed. I mean, look at this shit

http://www.androidlovedolls.com/

https://realbotix.systems/

>>731664969
Look up Project Prevention. They pay addicts to get sterilized.

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>>731659475
financial cuckery. disappointed by you communist fucks

>>731665135

again...#populationcontrol

>>731664677
Do the math, "genius". What happens when unemployment due to robots reaches a critical mass?

>>731665135
I think we get 2-4 more economic meltdowns like 2008, each time the rich buying up all the distressed assets again. 99% of the wealth is at the top but by the time we go through the cycle it will be 99.9%. We're going to be peasants. At that point, what is the motivation of the ultra-wealthy to help the rest of us? They don't care.

>>731659475

This is kinda what communism was leading to. Like, this was the Soviet Unions end goal once they had an infrastructure that could support it. China will be doing it once domestic androids hit the market and become cheaper than paying someone to do a job, and this has been the communist parties goal from the beginning.

>>731665135
Solid point! BTW... what happens when nobody even has money to buy shit.. because nobody can afford anything because nobody has jobs?

Think about that? Simple things yes.. but how about luxury appliances etc... Anything besides simple shit wouldn't be affordable.

>>731665233
You can't even get the federal government to supply birth control to the poor or keep abortion clinics open. Keep dreaming about population control..

>>731664734
>get basic income
>want more income because you enjoy accruing wealth

Wouldn't that fall under the little green "ENJOYMENT" part of the chart there anyway? I mean, once you have enough for actual survival and you're only pursuing wealth for fulfillment I'd say that's much the same as a guy working only the bare minimum so he can spend every spare minute of the day surfing or whatever.

>>731665313
Well since you are able to see the trend.. you are obligated by nature to do something about it. Make money.. adapt.. etc etc..

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REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FUCKING NORMIES PRESUPPOSING THE NECESSITY OF CURRENCY AND THE STATE WHILE THINKING THIS IS IN ANY WAY COMMUNISTIC

>>731665607
Hobbies to pass the time are good ideas.. but some of us NEED to be BIG! Highrise penthouses.. chrome cars... status! Can't get that shit with basic income.

>>731665437

This "seems" like a cruel solution. But it is to prevent mass unemployment, misery, and, well, death later on. It doesn't matter who is in the whitehouse or congress. The thinning of the heard is going to happen. "We" cannot sustain unproductively forever.

>>731665696
"What is Transitionary state?"

listen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1lEPQYQk8s
1.52.00

>>731664734

People can still work. UBI is just a floor under the economy. A basic living. People who want more are free to work for income in addition to their UBI.

>>731664677
brother, here, take the 7 dubs for this one

>>731659475
>Our only hope for the future?
pretty much. automation and greedy big brother gov agencies/corporations will continue removing the amount of people in the middleclass and subsequently the power the middle/lowerclass citizens have in a modern society.

>>731666026

No. The dollar looses value. Inflation happens.

>>731659475
if everyone is on basic income ( on welfare ), where is the government going to get the money to give people basic income.

>>731666026
If there are oppertunities then great! I think kind of the idea is that there won't be ANY jobs in 40 years... because there basically aren't any jobs that can't be automated.

>>731666159
no one is printing more money. so no inflation duhhhhh

>>731666229
i dont think that that is how inflation works....

>>731666172
the robot slaves. they make the economy great just like the African slaves, except forever :D

If there was universal basic income who the fuck would be a janitor? Who the fuck would do anything? ITT idiots with no understanding of basic high school level economics

>>731666344
robot slaves don't pay taxes

>>731666311
part of it.

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>>731665806

No one is constrained to live off the UBI - they are still free to build wealth through business if they feel the need for greed. In fact - the UBI model depends on it.

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>>731659475
No, same shit as before....but a lot of people need to die and it has to be their decision and you have to condone it without condoning it and you have to make it easy, quick, clean, no pain,and you have to maintain the illusion that you're not involved so they don't feel like you're coaxing them into it or even encouraging it.
Basically, facilitated suicide but with a hands off approach, leaving the person to their own devices with as much time as they need but DEFINITE access to the means to do so.

"Duh....let's give everyone a million dollars, then no one will be poor en junk en stuff! Ehhhh."

>>731660419
>Taxpayers pay for it
You missed the point of the question.

Why should anyone work to have taxes taken out of their pay when they will be given a 'basic income' if they stay at home and do nothing but play games?

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>>731659475
where do you retards come from?

>>731666588
tax how we used to after the new deal. .99c on every dollar after 100k
we used to ahve that, then reganomicasdaw

>>731666518

kek....I can just imagine all those people making the sacrifice, getting up at six, putting in long, hard hours, sacrificing. Ha!

>>731666407

people who want more that a UBI living, thats who. You CAN live on the UBI if you want / need to - but you don't have to. You are free to do business in addition to it.

listen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1lEPQYQk8s 1.53.00

>>731666446

no I don't think so.

It's when the supply isn't catching up with the demand.
when the supply isn't enough, price of the supply rises and then inflation happens. i think.

>>731666229

Right, or stealing (taxing) those who worked for their money.

>>731666848
gameboys and meth

>>731666813
fuck that, I'm getting loaded and fucking your wife while your dumb ass is at work

>>731665869
Work on your reading comprehension, that anon didn't mention anything about it being "cruel" or something like that. They were obviously objecting to how realistic it would be to enact when even just support for abortion and contraception are failing.

Also you're just making the same fear mongering emotional appeals about overpopulation that people have been making for hundreds of years. Luckily in the modern age we have access to a lot more data and analysis and can see that the population is only really growing at such a frightening rate in developing countries. Increases in sexual education, access to contraceptives, and increased women's rights reduces the growth even to sub-replacement levels in some cases.

But feel free to ignore all logic and facts and use the topic as an excuse of how we HAVE to exterminate whatever group you personally think are the inferiors.

Op is a fat virgin who isn't able to talk to real humans. Get a life

>>731666902
but you dont make 100k a year

>>731666762

Some wont. But a lot will because they want moar.

>>731666554
>rather than trying to solve the problem we should just let it get SO bad that hopefully, enough people kill themselves to balance it out!

You're retarded and that fails to actually address the issue of exponentially increasing automation.
Following your plan would literally lead to the end of mankind.

>>731666952

And if you actually worked your ass off, would you want to give up 40% of that?

>>731666567
>dude if like I pretend the people I disagree with talk like some brosif stoners then I don't actually need to think or make an argument XD

>>731666588
Why does anyone ever work harder to get a better job or a raise instead of doing the bare minimum for minimum pay?
Because they want MORE money, you retard.

>>731667015
yeah, a lot of people are going to want to fish in Alaska or clean the shit out of toliets to make a few extra bucks

you retarded nigga?

>>731666910

Honest fucker right here.

>>731667144>>731666735
read my post, the elite changed the taxes and were getting fucked

>>731660192

Who pays depends on how you pay for it. The simplest way would probably be seigniorage distributed through tax refunds. If that happens, anyone who holds cash assets would pay via inflation.

The incentive is the eradication of anti-social behaviors caused by involuntary human relationships and poverty, as well as a re appropriation of labor to artistic/social endeavors other than corporate posturing.

>>731667325
ah, so you are all for a permanent underclass good idea

That will work out well. And what happens when productive people get tired of carrying the losers?

>>731666691
Where do you come from?

>>731667325

Yes, some. But we all know that if there was this "UBI" of say $1200 a month. Many would be doing nothing until death.

>>731667658

fuck. 1200 a month is garbage money.

>>731667658

But what if we don't need their labor in a world of automation? Whats the harm in letting them idle peacefully in their hovel, eatin they tendies and playing vidya??

>>731659475
OP is a massive beta.

Can't handle a bit of competition, eh?

If you can't work 40 hours a week and still find time for learning/self improvement you might need to check your priorities. Maybe stop watching TV and browsing 4chan.

>>731667890
we cant let ppl die. despite the nonsense we do have enough. gen 4 reactors cellular agriculture and desalination* water food energy

>>731667106
not if moderated like deer
only by season and there's a cut off point.

>>731667890
Better to limit their reproduction.

Genocide would be attractive too. Can't have too many parasites, now can we?

>>731668157

That cuts into my baitin' time.

>>731659475
Possibly, though I worry about a "beautiful ones" scenario that could cause our population to collapse

>>731667549
>ah, so you are all for a permanent underclass
Because there's something stopping them from working for more pay to increase their class?
Oh no, wait, you just pulled that out of your ass so you'd have a nice easy strawman to beat on and feel smart.

I'm not the original anon you were talking to I'm just pointing out that your "logic" in >>731666588 is retarded.

I mean you're literally suggesting that this couldn't work because no one would bother to work more for more money when they could work less and just play games.
By that logic, everyone should be working some low-effort stoner-tier job where they just fuck around for the minimum time to get minimum wage because no one would ever want to work to get more, but the world obviously isn't like that.

I'm not sure if you're just shitposting to "win" some internet argument or if you're actually blind to how retarded your reasoning is.

>>731659475
Universal Income is just a sophisticated form of slavery. You will "improve yourself", have "time for social implication" with your universal basic income, while the wealthy and people of power get more wealth and power. And if you raise your voice, your basic income will be cut. After only 2 generation, be sure everyone will be dependent and no one will ever try to contest the system.

>>731668170

We can and should encourage the unproductive to die.

>>731667658
Then is it really such a loss that their work skills aren't being utilised and might it not be better than them turning to crime?

>>731668492
i cant morally sorry. not if there is enough it just aint right, I know this is /b/ and all

>>731668450

How is that slavery? Our current system is far, far closer to slavery.

>>731668179
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

>>731668395
Well, OK, but I don't want any of these lazy UBI fuckers living near me. You agree to send them to Mexico and we gotta deal.

>>731665135
you have overblown faith in robots and tech progression. In 20 years, we're still going to be slaving away doing dumb shit for people that make ridiculously more money than us. They'll phase out a few jobs, but for the most part it's going to be the same shit, but cybernetic implants will likely be real by then. Basic ones, like robotic arms, possibly a cybernetic Eye replacement, but otherwise same shit new year, still slaves.

>>731668684
why i dont leave my house you wouldnt see me

>>731659475
future. will come.

Not a Trumtard, but the first phase of the culling of the unproductive is going to happen with the elimination of the current ACA. There will be a darwinistic correction of the population.

>>731668676
Kill yourself, lets find out.

>>731667325
$1,200 a month is not enough for a basic income. This is a handout to the rich.

The people demand $10K a month or we're not electing you.

Or maybe UBI people can't vote?

>>731660215
Where should tax money be spent if not on citizens?

>>731668950

Add the dumb p.

>>731668684
>I don't want any of these lazy UBI fuckers living near me
And I don't want retards like you living near me but I just mind my own business instead of getting triggered and screeching about da ebil inferiors breathing MUH air.

Really it shouldn't be an issue unless you're a trash poorfag anyway. It's not like minimum income would allow them to afford housing in wealthy neighbourhoods any more than they can now and if they were your strawman of lazy fuckers who never work and just take the minimum income they'd probably want to spend as little as possible on housing to save it for everything else.

>>731668950
Ironically enough, poor trump voters will be most affected.
It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

>>731669147
so no deal then

>>731669046
>absolutely booty-bothered

>>731668950
lollll still confusing Malthusian social Darwinism nonsense with actual natural selection loll. read a fucking evolutionary biology textbook

>>731669123

not on UBI though. who's gonna pay for it if everyone is on it?

>>731669252
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrhPH6eT3wQ

>>731669232
I feel like you didn't read my post/are just shitposting.
Or maybe you ARE just a poorfag and are scared that the "undeserving" are going to move in next door and ruin the whole trailer park.

>>731669147
You should not refer to UBI people as 'trash poorfag's.

You'll never get reelected!

>>731669287

Convince me that you know what you think you know.

>>731668950
>Being this much of an anti-social retard

ok anon you're real edgy we get it you SO DON'T CARE about other human beings yea man you're so cool really cool please tell us some more stories of u not caring my man

>>731669308
everyone? after 30k you get only 99 % of it
then after you make for well say you get 80 percent of it. Incentivizing work dumnbasss. You just get less and less until a certain amount, that way you want to work

>>731668950
>without overpriced high-deductible plans people will LITERALLY DIE IN THE STREETS

>>731664085
>economy to survive.
This would be a problem for somebody.

People think this would lower the suicide rate. But lazy people just wont work and people will get bored and kys.

>>731669147
If they wanted to they could live in their cars / ditch and save up their UBI checks long enough to move into anon's neighborhood next door so as to cringe him.

>>731666432
Robot tax needs to happen then.
https://qz.com/911968/bill-gates-the-robot-that-takes-your-job-should-pay-taxes/

>>731659475
So like wellfare, foodstamps and housing vouchers then?

Or is UBI a fancy name for consolidated payment?

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>>731669560
I think you mean "without healthcare" you fucking mongoloid

>>731669308
It would require a progressive tax system. Those with high incomes would pay the majority of the taxes.

>>731669449
ahah ok lets do this. ANIMALS DO NOT "ADAPT TO THEIR ENVIRONMENT IN THE WAY YOU THINK THEY DO. THEY HAVE CERTAIN TRAITS THAT ALLOW THEM TO THRIVE. TRAITS THERE WERE SELECTed for through evolution. MEANING THEY ARE LUCKY. GENES. GENETICS IQ. THERE IS NO FREE WILL STOP BEING A DOUCHE.

>>731669413
Good thing I have no interest in politics, nice virtue signalling though :^)

>>731669665

well that's just not fair now don't you think? but then again, system like it is already being used.

>>731669665
You mean like what we did for 40 years until Reagan ruined the country?

>>731669665
Why would I want a high income if I have to pay the majority of your taxes? I'll just be a lazy faggot like the rest of you and live on free money

>>731669366
Hey, I work hard down at the slaughterhouse moping up stray pig entrails that spatter out of the noisy machine.

I don't want some UBI coon clan in a single wide moseying up next door.

ITT...a shitload of millennials blazing on the weekend. That's cool. Enjoy the youth. Really.
I envy you. You eventually will have to work at some point. There will never be some magical "UBI" shit. The weak and poor will die off. It is best for evolutionary progression.

>>731669718
and another point. IQ does not mean they will not be criminal POS. >>731669803
i literally already posted this but yea not op

>>731669818
Or better yet, move out of the country with all the other richfags and let your country crumble on itself

>>731669731
So do UBI people get to vote?

>>731669818
Because you'd still have more money you absolute fucking braindead dipshit. Paying taxes doesn't mean ALL YOUR MONEY is taken away. It's a percentage of it. Paying 80% of 3 million dollars a year still leaves you with far fucking more than someone who makes 30k a year. Are you being intentionally this goddamn obtuse?

>>731669827
>coon clan
But the parents only get a fixed UBI. They don't get more money for each niglet like they do now.

>>731669508

that's like a pyramid scheme then.

you'll need 30 people to pay a percentage of their income to pay a single person's income.

>>731669874
evolutionary progress. this system is just selecting for ppl with higher IQ. That doesn't mean they will be morally and ethically responsible ppl

>>731669874
It's gonna be the dumbfucks who die off first, like you.

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>>731665929
Tried that, it didn't work, no serious contemporary communist is going to propose vanguardism after seeing how abysmally it failed in the twentieth century.

They don't even work in principle, the D of P was probably Marx's biggest intellectual mistake.

>>731669907
of course. that's the reason why there's UBI.

>>731669991
what?

>>731669978
You'll never get someone earning 3M/year to pay 80% in taxes. He'll either find a loophole and pay near 0, stash the cash in the bahamas or leave the country. ALl 3 options leave you with nothing to pay for the poorfags. If poorfags can't help society, they should just die in the streets, who cares.

>>731669989
I don't think Shanayaya is gonna vote for your heartless scheme to give to the rich.

>>731669592
I feel like we're straying into "technically anything is possible" territory just for the sake of argument.
Wealthy neighbourhoods would be just as out of reach of the poor as they are now. Some scenario where someone saves so extremely to buy a house so outside their means stretches disbelief and even if they saved up to buy it fully with no morgage they'd still generally have higher taxes that would cut into their set amount of income.

The issue of people buying houses outside their means in the real world has more to do with bs with sub-prime loans and pushing things that can't be afforded because you can pass on/even sell the eventual bubble pop.

>>731659475
>being this serious

>>731670103

well basically, Universal Basic Income is income that people get from the government without working. It is still taxable. that's why it is being called "income".

>>731670169
When you starve to death because no "poorfags" are keeping your electricity and water running or farming the food you eat, you're going to care, you utter fucking dimwit.

An insane amount of people would chose to not work at all, and become incredibly lazy. Innovation would take a huge dip. People would become depressed because they arent doing shit, and they are being rewarded for it, and so they will live that way even though its depressing because it is so easy. Everything slowly grinds to a halt, and then government forces people into labor.

>>731670077
Good. Then we demand a higher UBI.

We're tired of the rich taking advantage by paying us not to work.

>>731669827
Stop being lazy and work harder so you can afford a better neighbourhood then.
I recently bought the new house I'm sitting in, on a hill surrounded by white middle-upper-class people.

>>731670238
its not supposed to be. that is kinda the point. but it is added in the scenario i am talking about to the amount you make when you work. actually now im confused. lol

>>731669521
I agree with this, what ever happened to "You don't work, you don't eat".
I understand why we should give them the money,
But in reality(at least here in Washington) people who live off welfare there entire lives end up breeding
a new generation of kids, who then grow up shitty and end up on welfare them selves.
It's a viscous cycle that needs to be put to an end.

>>731670281
"An insane amount of people would [choose not to] work at all..."

Wanna cite the source for this incredibly specific study, or should I just assume it's your colon?

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>>731669874
>le anyone who disagrees with me are just le millennials

>>731670272
People working to keep the electricity and water running are not poor, they are middle-low class. Lazy 420blazeit millennials that can't handle working more than one hour a week or fat alcoholic slobs without jobs should just die off. That wouldn't affect anyone, since they already don't contribute to anything.

If anything they should be slaughtered and combusted to make energy. At least they'd be useful.

>>731659475
fuck off commie

>>731670281

Creative genocide. Poisioning of cheetos and Mountain Dew.

it would be nice to get to choose an occupation based on enjoyment factor and not worry about money.

the problem is that money is generally correlated with happiness. i mean up to a point. when you no longer worry about bills and you have enough money to do the things you want to within reason, any money above that has diminishing returns on the amount of enjoyment it gives.

this is really nice for poor people and people working low paying jobs, but i don't think this is really helpful for people already pursuing higher paying jobs.

i mean, that's the point, but universal income doesn't change the reality of "those who are in charge."

i think it would be difficult to implement something like this, because our society has been built on capitalism and has reinforced those ideas for so long.

it would be neat to see how things would be different, but it's just a fantasy.

>>731670473
No, those people don't even fucking exist outside of privileged upper middle class white families, what the living fuck are you talking about?

>>731669978
Who the fuck would work his ass off to pay nearly all his money to some shitfaced stoners doing jack shit but masturbating all day. The answer is no one.

>>731670513
well something is going to happen with ai and general problem solvers. I dont want a fucking revolt

>>731670335
You don't need that big house all to yer'self. Segregation is racist.

Shanayaya and her brood will be moving in directly.

>>731670473

Many body-removal/disposal businesses will start up, and create jobs for those who want to work.

>>731670292
Darn that unavoidable logic!
This is why all those lazy poor voters set the minimum wage to a hundred dollars an hour, oh wait they didn't and your logic is retarded.

>>731670568
Because YOU'D STILL HAVE MORE MONEY THAN THEM.

What the fuck? How can you not understand this? How can this be so utterly beyond you that you can't grasp it? Do you have trisomy 23? Do you have a crippling brain injury? Please tell me, I'm genuinely curious to know how somebody could be this mindblowingly vapid. I'm surprised you haven't already accidentally killed yourself by forgetting to breath.

>>731662245
Maybe have it so that the basic income requires no kids and sterilization?

>>731670637
>I have no argument so I'll just start shitposting

>>731670559
HAHA you ever see a ghetto you fucking twat?
Privileged middle class doing nothing right?
WRONG its a bunch of lazy fucks living of government money which was given to the government by taxpayers.
Nice try though.

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>>731670559
It's simple: If you don't work, then you can't eat, then you die. Get a job, you lazy cunt.

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>>731670568
>Who the fuck would work his ass off to get more money

>>731670358

well it can't just be free money. if it is an income then it will be taxed.

>>731670831
Haha bullshit kiddo, it's rich white boy fucks living off their mommy and daddy's trust fund who live that way, no poor person could live that way and still eat and survive, the moment any unexpected expense came up they'd be utterly fucked. Try leaving your house once in a while, Cleetus.

>>731670292
a higher UBI?
so you're not contributing to society and you're asking for more money?

>>731670841
Ah yes, tell me all about your sweaty blue collar job you mental infant. I'll be over here making 120k a year and fucking your wife.

>>731670841
yeah but it sucks that it has to be that way, you know?

wouldn't it be cool if you didn't have to exchange time from your finite life in order to simply survive?

your life is divided into sleep, work, and free time. your whole life is structured to get you into the work force and the crescendo is retirement. you are "supposed" to really enjoy your life when you no longer have to work to survive, that time being retirement.

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>Idiots Who Don't Even Understand the Most Basic Theoretical Politics Project Ressentiment at Each Other: The Thread

>>731670790

kek

>>731659475
The problem is from where this money comes from.

>>731663821
>>push for UBI in case automation puts everyone out of a job
>>government never supports it
>>muh work ethic
>>never gets implemented
>>robots take our jobs anyway
>>revolution
there, finished.

>>731671101

Enlighten us with your wisdom oh great one.

>>731662977
>What if I want more than this basic income?
then you get a job, or start a business.

>>731671090
Go back in time to soviet russia, you'll love it. Everything provided by the state

>>731659475
>he doesn't know about the wonders of neetdom
>giving every mediocre person out there every reason to become a neet and stop producing anything of value

I don't think Chaim would like that unless he wants to grow the waifu industry I guess

>>731660192
Fiscal conservative here; when handled correctly, it's spending our tax money on preventative measures so we can save more else where. For instance, decent living wages decrease hard drug use. Meth heroin dealers will have less customers to sell to, saving taxpayers' from having to foot high bills on additional police, court dates, public defenders, sentencing, building cleanup (meth houses cleanups are expensive), etc.

>>731671064
First, I don't see what that weak ad hominem attack have to do with my argument.

Second, I already have a high paying job, thanks. Started working 2 years ago after uni, already bought a house and a nice car. You can keep dreaming tho, you won't have the UBI to save your lazy ass.

>>731671406
>Meth heroin dealers will have less customers to sell to
hahahahahahaahaha

>>731671474
Whatever you say, Joe the Plumber. Just know you people are going to suffer the most when automation puts you out of a job.

>>731671406
Or, put more money temporarily in additional police and purge them.

>>731671541
Automation can't put me out of a job, because I'm a software engineer. I make the robots that take jobs. They can't program themselves you dumb cunt.

>>731663804
/pol/ pls

>>731671338
the soviet state lacked the freedoms provided by our democratic system. the freedom of choice, of speech, etc.

i'm talking about the way things are right now, but you get cut a check for 30 grand or whatever the cost of living is.

>>731670934
I live in a ghetto(by choice cause cheep rent close to work)
Its full of do nothings that have never worked in there lives and there familys have lived off of government money for generations.
Rich white boys who don't HAVE to work isn't a problem, there parents worked hard and made enough to, make it so their children and grand children didn't have to work.
Niggers in ghettos who choose not to work and instead get "free money" from the local DSHS office, are actually a problem.

>>731659475
it won't be effective until robots can efficiently do at least all mundane minimum wage tasks

>>731671521

Wha, you never heard of metheroin brah?

>>731671632
Sure, what a great idea.
People will low-medium income will stop working and wait for the 30k check.
People with medium-high income will get the fuck out of the country to avoid high taxes.

>>731670724
Yeah, great i'll just sign away half my life to make a relatively small amount more money than you. Who cares about the value of free time anyways.

This whole "opium epidemic" is part of the culling, you know. "People are dying in record numbers daily." Right. As planned. Wake up people.

>>731671521
calm down underage

>>731671693
even now we have humans doing jobs that robots are capable of, and I'm not sure i understand why that is.

take for example, the self checkouts at supermarkets. you can have a single employee watch over say 4 self checkout stations, while normally you'd have to pay four cashiers to service the same number of customers.

yet some places still choose to employ only cashier checkouts, or a majority of cashier checkouts.

why is this?

surely there's a theft risk associated with self checkouts, but is it more than paying someone minimum wage?

>>731671541
I'm almost sad you're not answering anymore. Looks like you realized your ridiculous assumptions didn't hold any ground. Go look for a job now you sad fuck

>>731668450
>wealthy and powerful are working others

UBI
>others are being fed by the wealthy and powerful

I don't understand your viewpoint, can you elaborate?

>>731671521
Auto correct eliminated the / you spastic autist

>>731671745
Except that's shown not to happen in real world examples
>underage NEETs think they understand economic

>>731671101
>Idiots Who Capitalize Each Word In A Sentence Like Some Teen On Myspace

>>731664163
>who's losing jobs to automation
>people who work

Lmao. Good one.
But seriously in the future, if singularity hits like smart people think it will every one will be out of a job. God level intelligence would be capable of solving the ubi issue, hopefully it's willing.

>>731663786
His statement is still correct now?

>>731670724

Because HE WORKED FOR IT, AND YOU DIDN'T AND NEED TO DIE. IDIOT.

>>731665806
I forgot I made that post until just now and if you're still ITT I want to let you know you're a dumb cunt and totally misunderstood my post.

Also you should learn the difference between "NEED" and "WANT"

UBI is just another means for the government to convince slaves to pay for upgrades to their economy.

It's the same reason they leave borders wide open, encourage illegal immigrants/migrants, force-feed the children hyper-sexual propaganda in school/media/etc. The list is endless.

You aren't free individuals wiling to give a little of your earnings to help those in need. You're blind, idiotic slaves offering up your income as sacrifice to appease your D&C gods, at the expense of your own family, country, and culture.

Anyone who thinks UBI (or charity, or welfare, or any of this shit) is a good idea.. is a fucking moron.

You're not making things better, not for anyone. At best, you'll simply increase the population.. creating more poverty, more victimization, mouths to feed.

>>731672331
reeeeeeeee: the post.

>>731671188
Companies and their beneficiaries who make heavy use of automation.
Eventually, they'll be the only ones with the cash and without some sort of welfare/ubi likewise the only ones able to afford their own products crashing their companies and the economy unless they want to convert into some dystopian cyber-punk feudal company-community with requisite company-store to sell your soul to.

>>731671745
would they though? understand where your tax dollars go currently.

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

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i'll just drop this here

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>>731659475
Welfare leads to degenerate behavior and decline. I love how all you naive faggots think a whole world living on neetbux will be given enough money to live in lower middle class comfort. The current model may have to change but the solution will not be mincome

>>731672103
Youre telling me big businesses arent trying to dodge taxes?

>>731672470
V.S?

>>731665696
Currency IS a necessity, anon.

>>731672470
you're retarded
>only our goonies decide who get government handouts
>poverty is still skyrocketing
>middle class still becoming poorer
this shit will help people choose careers they're interested in and can do a good in rather than taking whatever is up for grabs and that they'll hate doing

>>731672469


>If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom

>Dwight D. Eisenhower

>>731672585

We know why your 85 IQ ass thinks UBI is a good idea. We don't give a shit.

The only people who want to pay for your ass to do nothing are other do-nothings.

>>731659475
Didn't France try something close to UBI and it utterly failed, and had to be ended after a few weeks.

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>>731671611

Being unaware that AI will eventually replace slow/dumb human programmers.

You should know better than that, Software Bob.

>>731670281
Inovation is going to explode to the next level. Because Super intelignence.

>>731672951
By the time it happens, I'll be long dead, so I don't give a fuck. Until then, my job is pretty much assured up to the end of my life, and it's paying a fucking lot.

>>731672798
>we
you work for the welfare department and its goonies?
cause they're the only ones actively trying to fight this.

when your boss realizes he can't be a total douchewad and getting away with it you wont have to deal with le douchewad bosses no more.

>strengthening the middleclass and pulling people out of poverty is something you don't give a shit about

why haven't you done the world a favor and kys yourself yet?

>>731672469
>they don't understand that we also dream
yes, the hungry dream of food, the cold dream of shelter, the sick dream of help. Love, is the only thing basic income cannot provide, and no amount of "socialism" can eradicate the dream of love.

so, there it is.

>>731671240
>Finished

Because we would all be killed by autonomous military machines. Check out Russia's that can kill people at like 4 miles

>>731673069
>kys yourself
kill yourself yourself

dude...

suicide inception

>>731673177
>they feed you, cloth you, give you shelter, just like prison

>>731673055
~2045

>>731673360
may you rip in peaces.

>>731673069

It's their life, let them pull themselves out of poverty.

The math is simple. I don't understand why this is hard to understand. If there are too many in poverty NOW for you to save.. how will you save the poor.. when their population doubles, triples, on and on?

This is simple shit.