Socialists thread go

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>>731530438
get a job, faggot.

>>731530438
Socialism is based.

>>731530438
Wazzup

>>731530438
fuck off ya bum

Feels vs reeels https://youtu.be/3SUWK_pWrbw

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Now it's the communist thread.

'''Socialists''' BTFO'd to the dustbin of history.

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>>731530438
>>731530774

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>>731530438

>>731531157
Not an argument.

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>>731531243
stay mad

>>731531243
Not a not retard

Seize the means of production

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where my fellow class conscious proles at?

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>>731530884
Uneducated hoodwinked leftovers of the machinery of opression like you should embrace the dustbin of history as their home. American North Korea is not beter than Korean North Korea.


Do nothing. Take part in nothing. Wait for nothing. Praise no one. The rest is opportunism.

>>731530481
/thread

>>731531553
>go to /b/ once a month for no particular reason
>see someone this based
Don't mind me, just reading Guy Debord's La Société du Spectacle, it's quite the book.

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>>731531356

>>731531553
no one here knows remotely enough theory to appreciate your cancerous shitposting anon. people here are liberals=communists tier uneducated

>>731531632
more like a collection of thesis. you should read their manifesto afterwards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYquuFjE0cc

>>731531648
You fucking idiot. Someone's got to be in charge. How does mob rule ever fucking work?

>>731531542
>>731531607
TL:DR fuckmuffin

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>>731531553
>>731531648

>>731531553
Gramsci Is better than Bodriga

>>731531356
>im lucky if i make back pennies
>top 30 rich people have 40% of global wealth

this is your brain on liberal apologia

>>731530438
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAZC8RIX554

>>731531553
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB4k7ma7jvM

>>731531981
Do you think that wealth should he spread?

>>731532111
can you think of 1 legitimate reason it shouldn't be?

>>731531981
>I make back pennies
On each person you dense fuck. The only reason why they have so much money is because they have millions of employees. 1p per day* 1M people = £10,000/day

Not hard to work out if you're not a fucking hippie.

>>731531648
Then again there's the fact that he organized all the worker and used his brain power to come up with the product, how to use it, how to market/advertise it, and how to sell it for a profit. Without that knowledge and leadership ability, the workers wouldn't have thos jobs in the first place.
Stay mad

>>731532207
They earned it

>>731532207
If the person at the top earns the same as the person on the bottom, what motivation is there to keep working? Look at bankers. They waste their lives to earn money, having no time for a wife and kids. If they were earning the same as a nigger on welfare, would they keep doing that job?

>>731532239
but that's simply not true you colossal faggot. I just bought a tablet case from china directly from a manufacturer, they had to write the production cost on the customs sheet. the production cost (which included all those things mentioned in pic above, plus the worker's salary) was 4.99 usd while i paid 30 usd.

>>731532385
You can see from the "RA" that the bottom is a copy/paste from the top. Troll harder.

>>731531819
The only true sosialisme is national sosialisme.

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>>731532207

>>731532468
>what are shareholders
>what are overheads
>what is marketing
>what is distribution

lrn2economics

>>731532378
by exploiting workers. im not denying they "earned" it, same way a thief "earns" a purse if he steals it. the only difference is that the bourgeoisie have enough power to enforce their ownership as law under the threat of state violence

>>731532399
I never said a person with more responsibilities shouldn't earn more. but that more should be within a reasonable scope, even x5-x6 or x10 is reasonable. the thing is the bourgeoisie earn billions that they cannot physically spend within 1000 lifetimes, while they exploit their workers and cause circles of crashes and stimulus due to said accumulation of wealth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P97r9Ci5Kg

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>>731530438
paraphrased

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>>731531632
Good, comrade; I also suggest you acquaint yourself with psychologically- and culturally-oriented authors, especially Lacan and Badiou, since they are essential for the 21st century's communists.

>>731532691
>what are shareholders

moochers who exploit surplus value

>what are overheads

overheads were included in the price

>what is marketing

an expense thats included in the costs

>what is distribution

an expense thats included in the costs


how dense are you anon?

>>731532769
>they physically cannot spend
why do you think the net worth of a person is how much dispensable income they have? Bill gates is only rich because he owns microsoft. Most of his net worth is his shares in MS. Take that away from him and he's not much more than 10x a normal person.

>>731532769
Labor is voluntary dumb shit

>>731530481
Jobs are for the weak willed

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>>731532916
>since they are essential for the 21st century's communists

someone's been reading too much zizek

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>>731533031
>capitalism
>voluntaty

pick one.

>>731532939

So you have no idea how shareholders work? Without shareholders, 99% of businesses wouldn't exist you fucking sponge.

As for the other things, post proof or gtfo. there's no way they included even half of those things.

>>731533064
>mental gymnastics

A major factor why socialist countries collapse is due to the fact no one wants to work since the pay is the same

>>731533030
>if you take that away

except you won't take that away, and he can sell those shares at any given time. it's also naive to believe his net worth isn't also invested in real estate or other things that also constitute means of production themselves

>>731533031
>Labor is voluntary dumb shit

ye if you don't want to starve to death.

>>731533215
>taking bait

>>731533164
Pls show me any other system where u have more liberty than a capitalist one

Protip: u can't

>>731533164
the fact no one is sending you to the gulag is proof capitalism is voluntary

>>731533296
> he can sell at any given time

so what exactly? Either those shares shouldn't be worth anything and therefore MS should cease to function, or he shouldn't be allowed to sell them?

>>731533123
I arrive at most of my conclusions independently of any thinker who's still alive, the fact that we have developed common understandings only shows that mr. Zizek is quite smart.

>>731533166
>without shareholders 99% of businesses wouldn't exist

businesses shouldn't exist you neoliberal cuck

>>731533166
>As for the other things, post proof or gtfo

proof of what, sweatshop exploitation? the customs paper from a case i bought from ebay 3 weeks ago?

how can you be so fucking dense?

>>731533327
>acting stupid
>being a socialist

there's literally no difference

>>731532769
If you believe you're being "exploited" at your job you can get a new one or start your own.

>>731533551
hurrdurr i wish i could go back to the good old days in caves eating shit.

We get it, you think everything is trying to hurt you specifically. Put your tinfoil hat back on and crawl back into your mothers basement.

>>731533296
ya man we should just give everyone money!!11 it will solve everything!!!11!

>>731533577
kek

>>731533551
found the nigger
>muh welfare

>>731533166
https://youtu.be/6P97r9Ci5Kg?t=27m22s

here you go classcuck, educate yourself

>>731533463
"shares" shouldn't exist, private property of any mean of production shouldn't exist.

>>731533497
mmm gimme some of dat ideology boi

>>731533831
not watching that. i bet you let people sleep with your wife because "private property shouldn't exist". Typical cucklord.

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>>731533831
>Private property of any mean of production shouldn't exist

>>731533605
>If you believe you're being "exploited" at your job you can get a new one

and be exploited there

>or start your own

if you already own capital. if you don't, you have to beg a private company that gets frequently bailed out with your taxes for a loan that you'll pay interest for. you might even have to promise to give them your house if you cant make payments though. that's all provides they even give you the loan

>>731533720
>the means of production should be owned communally

>in the liberals mind, this doesn't compute. he therefor resorts to his default mode of existence, aka fantasizing about eating shit

>>731533728
ye man that's exactly what i said

>>731533826
i never once mentioned welfare anywhere. welfare is a liberal capitalist concept, not a communist one you uneducated idiot

https://youtu.be/DyIFRzkw4p0

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Noot noot

>>731531553
Do nothing. Take part in nothing. Wait for nothing. You do realize how sociopathic/autistic this sounds right? Why not take it a little further. Love nothing. Want nothing. Feel nothing. Become nothing.

>>731533983
>not watching that

bet you get an allergic reaction to education dummy

>>731534084
ye it shouldn't. what's even funnier is idiots like you that don't own private property, but still condone it

>>731534169
it's a meme you dip. he refers to a current within communism that is against proletarian realpolitik under the "conditions are right".

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>>731533398
Socialism or communism.
And no, I don't mean a shitty authoritarian state or scandanavian welfare state.

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>>731534190
Haha yup I don't own any private property u very right

>>731533398
>Pls show me any other system where u have more liberty than a capitalist one

>no healthcare if you get sick

>paid education

>have to be exploited or die of hunger

cant handle all this liberty

>>731534465
how many production units do you own anon?

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>>731534465
private property is a spook.

>>731532907
He's right. If the poor would show a little action and stop being lazy niggers, poverty would end.

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>itt

>>731534594
needs more libtards/libturds being triggered and something about snowflakes

>>731534299
I wish I could I use that in a real debate. Its just a meme you dunce. Sadly that is not an solid rebuttal with substance. As for the other half of your rebuttal I would like for you to expand on it so I can get a better understanding of what the fuck your talking about son!

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socialist paradise depicted
>inb4 Venezuela is really not socialism

>>731533831
No.

Communism:
> How will you keep order if you're stateless.
>how will you penalize people if you're stateless.
>how will you handle people who rebel (because it's bound to happen)

>>731534834
>socialism
it's incompatible with communism

>>731533123
nice picture

>>731534799
what i mean is it was a reference, then i explained what it was a reference to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordigism

for the gist of it, although if you're really interested you should read from some non-biased sources since liberalpedia is heavily revisionist when it comes to leftist history and theory

>>731535048
>it's incompatible with human happiness
FIFY

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We shall kill every last capitalist. Noot noot.

>>731532542
its not a troll you retard search a bit on youtube

communists cant explain this: Why should I support faggots who want to sieze my property? I'm not a "burgeouise oppressor", but I also don't give a shit about people, I don't want to spend a cent to help anyone

>>731535867
cont. what gives you the right to basically make me a slave (work goyum, I-I mean comrade, or else-gulag)? if you don't believe in right, why talk about the rights of oppressed? TL;DR why should I care sums it up pretty nicely

>>731535867
how much property do you own?

>>731535076
Will do mang. Thanks for explaining in more depth my dude.

>>731535867
>sieze my property
Do you own a factory with 1000 workers? That's the private property we're talking about. Not your dear granny's house and lawn, or your mover enterprise with your buddy, these are things no one gives a damn about.

>>731536303
bullshit, if communists won, what would stop you from just shooting me in the head and taking it? My guns couldn't hold of an army

>>731536303
what if I start in a garage and develop it to a big company?

>>731536474
why would anyone do that? do you know what communists want? do you know what communist parties fight for man?

>>731536571
you'd need employees for that, aka exploit someone. you'd also need means of production, from materials to tools etc that would generate value for you while you do nothing.

communist whine about oppression, CAUSE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO. They don't even hide the fact that in any version of socialism Marxism communism, anarchins etc they wouldn't let anyone else raise a differing opinion without being killed

>>731536746
absolute power you fucking jew. If some party has absolute control, all deals are off, you are simply retarded if you don't get this

commies in the 21 century are just kids who we bullied so now they lust to feel the power of other people trembling before them knowing that they could send them to a gulag and kill their family

>>731531648
Overseer yes... also instigator, organizer, and the one who foots the bill when the whole thing falls apart. Ceo of walmart to your local mom & pop shop.

Do you seriously think people would just weld shit, stack bricks, or operate cash machines and make a living off that without SOMEONE pulling the strings directing it all that labour somewhere useful? Only difference between a capitalist set up and a socialist set up is one system votes every day with every transaction, and one votes once every... four years or so... for some group of charismatic charlattans pretending to understand EVERYTHING that we hope in vain set it up in a way that isn't an inefficient mess geared to be popular with whatever voting block matters most at the time.

>>731536818
you are allowed to say whatever you want as long as you don't threaten the status quo. during the cold war, you could be a capitalist in the ussr as much as you could be a communist in the usa. the only reason you're allowed "freedom of speech" in the usa for example is because your whole spectrum of argument is within a very very narrow part of the political spectrum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

do they not teach you in school about the history of the workers' struggle in the usa? the unions and strikes and how they were violently suppresed? the iww?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

if you think that if somehow a communist party was formed and got 15% in the national elections you'd still be free to proclaim yourself a communist openly, you're extremely naive

>>731536929
>absolute power

whose? government is divided in branches, much like it is today. the only difference is that the people with guns protect the interests of the many, not the few

>>731537050
>hahahha I bullied people, look at me everyone
communism is seriously suffering from al the cancerous bourgeois kids that want attention and help coping with the fact that their parents are the dipshits that make capitalism possible. They will never surrender their privileges, they don't know how to exist without them

>>731537358
>managers=owners

there will always be managers and people overseeing infrastructure and logistics. that's in no way the same as a capitalist who literally does nothing, since even the overseeing itself is done by an employee (albeit a high paid one).

>>731537727
bullshit, the hippies were allowed, the university professor commies were allowed, during the height of cold war

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>>731530438

>>731536474
Communal law and tribunals, which won't be radically different from the existing parts of penal codes that don't concern private property at large. This is some comic-tier nonsense, all these images of squads in red star peaked caps knocking about shooting people at random.
>>731536571
And? You run it as a collective enterprise. No profiteering. It's not something extraordinary, in fact it's capitalism minus all its shady implications.

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/b/ sure is class conscious tonight

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>>731530484

>>731538007
>comic tier bullshit
like it has never happened right? No one who has absolute power relinquishes it, only exception being a few roman emperors and BASED Pinochet

>>731537936
neither hippies nor university professors were marxists. being anti-war doesn't equal marxist, marxist means being a member of a communist party with a stated purpose of overthrowing the capitalist status quo and replacing it with a worker's government, or supporting such a party. you should really read on some history of class struggle in the us prior to the 2nd world war anon

Fascism is actually perfect (Nazi Germany wasn't fascist)
>democracy with those who serve the country in war vote
>turns into socialist like dictatorship if external threats are too great, and then reverts back to democracy

>>731538315
a lot of them waved communist flags, and a lot were legit sovied agents, soviet released documents prove this

>>731538231
but who holds that absolute party? the central committee? it would function like a modern-day parliament. the supreme worker's council? it would act as a legislative body but comprised of workers instead of bourgeoisie. who exactly is wielding this absolute power in your hypothetical post-apocalyptic scenario?

*BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP*

>>731538315
>>731537727
there was a communist party in America. They got away with treason by crying muh oppression, after collapse of the USSR, a ton of documents and statements prove that they were traitors looking to enslave their people for the USSR. Cucks basically, just like you

>>731538432
the soviets did try to recruit people and to agitate workers movements, but any time issues turned from policy to actual class politics, it was violently suppressed. as for people waving flags, i can wave all sorts of flags and it will mean exactly jack shit

>>731538356
fascism is tribalist neoliberalism, nothing different for the prole

>>731538630
what were they trying to do exactly anon? do tell

throw some links in too

>>731538519
armed communists, nigger. Stup saying DA WORKERZ, literally 100% of communists today are rich or at least upper middle class, the racist sexist islamophobes that you hate are the actual workers, you even know that, your insults allways revolve around shaming someones income, education etc, implying that you are superior for being bourgeoise. Ironic innit?

>>731536818
>allowed to

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%931966

>vietnam war
>korean war
>afghan war

sounds allowed to me

>>731538080
>we are the workers
>hahahha the workers are all stupid and naïve, also secist racis transphobic islamophobic....

>>731538688
tell that to that guy that waved American flag in cuba a few days ago, also
>the commiecucks were allowed to incite people to treason
>they were not however allowed to plant bombs and murder
OPPRESHUN, MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, THEY ARE OPPRESING ME

>>731538688
you do not speak for the proles, the proles are mostly right wing, stop larping

>>731538841
are you high man? im asking you, in your hypothetical post revolution society, who is this person/people that will confiscate your house? the government? random people? who? what does armed communists mean? the party?

>literally 100% of communists today are rich or at least upper middle class

where man? where is this happening? do you think nyc liberals are communists? they aren't. there are no communists in the usa today, at least none to constitute a substantial political force. but there are communists in other countries, and i assure you they are workers. and yes, the racist sexist islamophobes are the workers, that's why im here typing this shit out to make you realize ahmed is getting as duped as you are and who your real enemy is. i don't hate falsely conscious workers, because unlike dumbass /pol/acks i realize that this ideology of theirs stems from their upbringing and the ideology of the ruling-class imposed onto them since they were kids. a true communist would never patronize even the most uneducated hillbilly, the people you are referring to as communists are liberals. liberals aren't communists, they are capitalists.

>>731538755
this article trys to explain how it was good that they worked for USSR
https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/october-2000/moscows-archives-and-the-new-history-of-the-communist-party-of-the-united-states

>>731538356
>Nazi Germany wasn't fascist
It was fascist, exactly like Italy.
In fact "national socialism" was coined by Mussolini in the 1920s as a term for fascism's [false] transcendence of political opposites.

>>731539385
have ou ever considerd that maybe your ideology isn't perfect? you dismiss all others rather eeasily

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>>731531648
If the boss built the company from the ground up he/she should be entitled to a good amount of what the company makes not the worker who just tends to the machines and does desk work. Plus the boss is pulling all the strings and doing the heavy lifting financially to pay for everything including the workers and has to pay them with enough money left over to keep the company running.

communism is just a godless religion
/thread

>>731538524
here's the less opportunist one
>RRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPP

>>731539190
>tell that to that guy that waved the american flag in cuba

ye cause if you ran in front of a parade without a flag you wouldn't get tackled by 5 cops anyway.

>the commiecucks were allowed to incite people to treason

treason? who does a worker movement betray exactly?

>>731538979
again, you confuse liberal idpol with communism. you might brush this over as a misunderstanding, but this is actually a tactical assault on marxism, diluting it's revolutionary meaning by branding liberalism or any other shit as "communism"
“Revisionism—revision of Marxism—is today one of the chief manifestations, if not the chief, of bourgeois influence on the proletariat and bourgeois corruption of the workers. That is why Eduard Bernstein, the opportunist leader, has won such world-wide notoriety.”

– V.I. Lenin, “A Fool’s Haste Is No Speed”

>>731539234
i speak for their interests. there will always be proles who are more class conscious than their fellow proles, and those are the proles that must steer the rest of the proletariat towards its revolutionary potential. i am a prole after all, so are most of you most likely

>>731531157
You don't know shit about economics. You should retire this meme, because it makes you look ignorant.

>>731539614
my ideology is dialectical materialism, which in essence is the analysis of history and sociology based on facts and dialectical reasoning.

>>731539674
there is no reason for a boss to exist, there is no reason for wasteful production done to generate profit and no reason for labor exploitation. you justify labor exploitation as good since the boss took the economic risk to invest capital, while ignoring the reality that a) most capitalists already own capital beforehand b) not all people are in the position to even make an investment in their lives in order to open their own business and c) for every 1 person who succeeds, 10000 fail. there is simply no reason for this system to exist

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You, anon, yes you. Start unfolding your subjectivity RIGHT NOW.
>b-but muh fap time
You don't have any excuses anymore.

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>>731534084
Look up the difference between private property and personal property.
Eliminating private property just means that some fucker on Wall Street can't charge you rent for land he's never even set foot on.

up up up

>>731540454
Surely you must realise that Jefferson was just another American politician.
As with all politicians you can find quotes that seem to favor one side then the the other of any question.
For instance: what was his stance on slavery?

>>731530438
Stop posting capitalist shills. This is a bernie thread now

>>731541634
IIRC, he actually spoke out in favor of abolishing slavery despite being a slave owner at the time.
Lincoln also spoke out about how personal property is a more sensible system than private property
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=29502