What do you think about abortion?

I like that it's killing babies. But I don't like that it gives women a choice.

>>730743001
Why weren't you?

>>730743289
All I did was ask a question

>>730743001
If the baby is a human, you should be able to remove another humans' imposition on your life ie. you dont have to allow someone to live inside of you without your consent.

if they aren't human yet, there isn't even a need for an argument.

>>730743001
it sends babies to god faster

>>730743001
>>730743423
Imagine if the baby had already been born and the mother would have to donate some vital organ for the baby to continue its survival.

We don't arrest the mother for not donating the baby, but we limit the mother from forcing the baby out of her womb. Are we affording the baby extra rights than the mother has?

>>730743423
So the woman is the one who decides what is a human and what isn't a human?

>>730743423
This. Abortion is a necessary evil.

>>730743001
They're pretty tasty tbh.

I dont think it's murder cuz the fetus isnt alive. Even if it is, i think humans are expendable so i still dont care. In the end, not my body, not my problem

>>730743672
No, the woman can merely decide she does not wish for the other human to live inside her. We give property rights to home owners and those that rent property, but not to women and their own bodies.

>>730743672
Doesn't matter who does. Both cases allow for abortion, human or not.

It brings out the kid in you!

Abortion decisions affect more than one life. Fucked up that women can destroy the dad's life and the babies life at the same time. In the end I don't care, just as long as I can eat a steamy creamy Andy log and have it slide down my throat

>>730743125
Kekest of zozzles

>>730743672
If it can't live outside of the womb, without medical aid or dying then its not a human yet.

>>730743001
It assures your childs place in heaven, before it can make those inevitable poor choices.

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>>730743001

took gf to get one a couple months back. it was a god awful experience, only made worse by the jesus nuts across the street. thank god i live in this day and age in america, or i'd be a 19 year old dad.

"pro lifers" can eat a dick.

>>730743933
So after a baby is born a doctor should be able to get the mothers' written consent to put the baby into a modified food processor? All I'm asking is who decides who is a human or a wart and who decides whether or not it's okay to grind it up for fertilizer?

>>730743864
Fetuses are just as alive as you, retard

>>730744348
If God is all-knowing, wouldn't that God punish a baby that would grow up to be immoral the same as one that had already made those choices?

>>730744275
Oh

So you weren't a human once?

>>730743423
you consented when you decide to take a bunch of sperm into your cunt.

>>730744275
Darth Vader can't live without medical aid, is he not human anymore?

>>730744497
IF the baby is human, you cant force the baby to impose upon the mother

We have established a line for both cases of possibility.

Why should the mother be beholden to the child inside of her?

>>730743001
The more the better

>>730744490
Condoms were made for a reason. Use them.

>>730744490
Baby killer

/b/ likes blacks and other minorities, right? Because you're going to have a fuckton more of them if abortion was made illegal again.

>>730744603
An excellent point! Free abortions for all!

>>730744609
Were you human when you were a sperm? You still had half the chromosomes necessary for life? Shouldnt anytime you masturbate as a male be killing millions of babies?

>>730744794
Cause she's the slut who fucked without a condom

>>730744757
He's Sith, of course not.

>>730744757
uh... off topic, but not really. Well, genetically he is, but most people don't exactly consider him human when he is in the suit. More like a human/monster hybrid.

>>730743001
Can't help but feel it's wrong.

>>730744684
So ... you aren't allowed to expel that sperm? That seems unlawful in any other civil or legal agreement you can find in modern society.

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>>730744794
So humans decided what a human is and what a human is not.

Sounds familiar

>>730743423
>consent
kill yourself

>>730744105

Too bad it's not OC.

>>730744927
Sperm don't turn into babies. They activate and send info to an egg.

>>730744858
you have obviously never had unprotected sex

>>730744910
You seem say a lot of hyperbole in order to belittle opposing viewpoints without making any actual arguments yourself.

Not a real moral or convincing way to argue.

>>730744609
Yes I was a near parasitic clump of cells at one point.

And before you

>But aren't you glad that your mother decided to keep you.

That's irrelevant question, because If I was aborted, then I would be neither glad nor disappointed becuase I wouldn't exist.

>>730745181
haha disregard. I suck cocks :^) brb off to reddit. I have a bull to pleasure

>>730744927
No because it's not a complete organism until the sperm fertilizes the egg. And you never answered my question: were you not a human after your dad fucked your mom and his sperm inseminated her egg?

>>730745064
We ALL decide what is and what isn't. We are the only species that we can tell that can make informed decisions.

Are you suggesting that a mother not wanting a baby inside her is akin to Hitler? That is some nuclear level straw-man reasoning.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7lhXFsLMyWg

Nou echt

>>730743001
I'm not saying we need more humans, as I can't get along with most people and think that this planet could do with a few billion less residents, but it all just boils down to either killing babies or people just not having sex every fucking night.

>>730745181
You're still a clump of cells, as am I.

Abortion is murder

>>730745302
Why does completeness matter? A fetus is not a complete baby yet you argue it is still a baby. Why aren't lone germ cells then afforded the same rights as humans?

>>730745478
And masturbation is genocide. It really doesn't help to be hyperbolic. Present an argument.

>>730745478
So abortion clinics are murder factories? You should probably do something about that.

>>730744794
Actually you can. Happen all the time in the court of law. Someone signs a contract without reading it all the way thru. Later down the road they want out because the situation has changed. They are forced to uphold the original contract by the courts.
Every action a person takes has potential outcomes. Just because you don't like the outcome of an action doesn't mean you can get out of it easily.

>>730744972
Sith Lord, not an actual Sith. Those things are red.

>>730745486
A child is not a complete adult citizen, why should a country give them any rights?

>>730745166
Some dipshit says his god is all-knowing and I fail to acknowledge this and I'm the bad guy.

>>730745323
No, the Nazis decided that jews and communists and homosexuals were not humans so they aborted them. You call this holocaust evil and murder, but it's bo different than liberals aborting unborn children.

The thing that pisses me off is that you know that to be true and still deny it

>>730745592
Sperm are not humans. Stop being retarded.

>>730743001
They're a good way to deal with an unwanted pregnancy

>>730745691
I wasnt the one arguing for completeness. Explain to me why being a complete fetus is somehow more important than an individual germ cell.

Abortion it's not good. Its what we fucking need.

>>730745794
Neither are zygotes. But you see no problem with it when it fits your worldview.

>>730745478
Yes but unfortunately for me you're a clump of cells that eats breathes and shits independent of others, on the same plane of existence as I am.

>>730745592
Sperm is just sperm until it hits an egg.

Holy shit have you ever gone through school?

I'm for abortion ,it keeps the nigger numbers down.

>>730745323
Justifying it by saying it's not human is going further than Hitler did since he referred to everyone else as subhuman.

It's funny how people defend so badly a fetus life, but when it borns, they don't fight for defend him/her anymore

>>730745705
Sounded like you were making a hyperbolic argument about there somehow being no morality?

4chan is confusing and trying to read context is hard when all you meant was a joke.

Sorry, dude

>>730745829
Dude, fuck off with your mansplaining

>>730745888
They turn into humans. Sperm do not.

>>730745889
So if your grandmother gets so old she has to be fed on a tube and her kidneys hooked up to dialysis that means she's not a human being anymore.

Liberal logic at it's finest, folks

>>730744022
Underrated kek

>>730743001
Abortion should be mandatory for all non-whites.

>>730745691
That's just a linear narrow minded point of view. Genetically there is no difference in an adult or a child. In fact, even after you die you still maintain some rights.

>>730745794
>>730745906

jesus, I wasnt advocating this.

I was giving an example of how inane making blanket statements were.

>>730746011
He was right

>>730746018
When they were a fetus there was still hope. Now they're just some disgusting sjw that doesn't deserve basic rights due to complete retartedness.

>>730746145
then who the fuck is gonna mow my lawn?

>>730746272
OP

>>730746071
You're a faggot and an embarrassment for even using that word

>>730746011
I didnt even say it WASNT a baby. I allowed that the fetus could be sentient or not since we do not know, I allowed for the instance of both.

Should be judged on a case by case basis

>>730745906
yeah but it could have become a fetus!!!! murderer!!!!!!!!!

>>730746130
My fav abortion joke. :)

This thread is filled with retards that think sperm are humans. Too retarted for me.

>>730746467
>retarted

>>730745889
same plane of existence?
Look here everyone, we got ourselves a philosopher. Who exactly was it that told you what planes of existence there are, and what exactly inhabits them?

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>>730746071
Way to throw in the towel. Thanks for playing

Literally doesn't matter except for whatever make-believe "precious" delusions about humans being special.

Socially acceptable infanticide.

And women convince us that they alone are the arbiters of death.

Strangely, this has succeeded.

It's murder, plain and simple.

>>730746272
When I was young white kids picked the strawberries.
Just sayin.

>>730746467
We didnt say sperm were humans. We argued over why we give such moral weight to fetuses over sperm.

>>730746042
Sorry for calling you a dipshit.

Till it's viable outside the womb it's the woman's decision. It's like telling me I can't cut off a skin tag or even my own finger if I wanna. If it relies on my heartbeat and organs to keep 'living' it's my decisions on what to do with it.

So if it's murder, then why don't we try all mothers as murderers or as conspirators? Because everyone knows abortion isn't really murder. Even most of the retards out there aren't advocating for life sentences, so clearly they believe this isn't ACTUAL murder.

>>730743001
less unwanted niggers = win

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>>730746696

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>>730746795
So you're trying to say that after you get rid of a wart or cut off your finger, that severed organism will continue surviving like a baby would?

You're making that association

>>730746696
It's ok /bro. Maybe we can ball each other later

>>730746795
Uh, well you can do it yourself but a doctor isn't going to cut your finger off just because you want it cut off. Has to be a medical reason for the amputation or they will not do it. Same thing with any amputation. So if a woman wants an abortion, she can jam a coat hanger up in there, but its not going to be that safe. The same way as if you decided to amputate your own foot. You can do it, but its probably not going to turn out the great for you.

Really, did you even think about your argument before saying something?

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>>730747136

>>730747134
Just outta curiosity what's it like only being able to read half of any sentence?

Abortion is fine. So is capital punishment (as thats brought up constantly in this debate for some reason)

Also,

If the father of an unborn fetus/child states he wants the mother to have an abortion, he is no longer liable for that child if she decides to have it.

He also gives up all rights as a father should she have it.

>>730746497
cackled

>>730747138
Lmao.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_surgery
Did you think about yours?

>>730743001
Not great, but sometimes you need to get one. Kid has serious birthdefects, a likelihood for developing em (say, from being a kid produced from incest) or being a reminder of a terrible relationship...and the foster care system is utter garbage.

Its an option that shouldn't come off the table until we can offer better ones. Afterall, we still have elctroshock and lobotomies for selective use, and that shit led to awful garbage originally. Just more controlled now.

>>730746795
If it has human DNA, its human. If it has a brain/brain stem, it is capable of decisions (limited though they may be at that point)
So you're saying the host has all the decision making power, regardless of how extreme that decision is? What changes from when the mother is deciding to kill the fetus, and when the mother decides to kill her toddler?

>>730747302
I read all of it actually and you're trying to say that a baby that just happens to be inside the womb is different than a baby being breastfed by his/her mother because the mother decides whether or not it's allowed to live or die even after it's born, since the baby is still being cared for

>>730743850
Fuck you you Taiwanese bastard.

>>730747636
It's almost like you guys don't know what the word 'viable' means.
Till it can sustain it's own bodily functions under it's own autonomy.

>>730744490
Amen.

Also, condoms, or fuck her in the ass when she's on her cycle man.

>>730747394
Ok, go find me just one licensed plastic surgeon (or any type of surgeon, or any doctor, or even a vet) that would amputate any functioning part of your body for no other reason than because you want it amputated.

>>730747317
underrated post

>>730743001
Not that biology determs what is life, but here are some definitions for life in biology


Homeostasis: regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature
Organization: being structurally composed of one or more cells — the basic units of life
Metabolism: transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
Growth: maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.
Adaptation: the ability to change over time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity, diet, and external factors.
Response to stimuli: a response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion; for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism), and chemotaxis.
Reproduction: the ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism or sexually from two parent organisms.

A baby has all requirements to be considered a life, so therefore, if the fetus is a human life, its immoral to kill it

>>730747636
If fetus is still depending on the "host" for survival then yes, the host is in control. Are you really going to compare this to a toddler?

>>730747681
Baby can be breast-fed by another woman or with milk supplements. But it can hardly be moved to another woman's womb, especially during the first trimester.

>>730747681
What are you talking about? It's inherently obvious you missed the entire first half of what I said. Are you fundamentally disabled or something?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability
Fucking read.
Till it can sustain it's own bodily functions with it's own body tissues, organs, muscles, what have you it is not by any clinical definition a autonomous life form. By the very definition of the word 'autonomous' itself.

>>730743001

>>730747636
Is your shit a human? It also contains a lot of human DNA.

>>730747834
You've seriously never heard of apotemnophilia?
Quite a few of them.
How do you think the lizard man or the barbie doll girls came to be?

People make this shit so complicated that makes us as aspecies always repeating the same questions over and over again without any general consensus. That's why we don't evolve faster as a society. We could be way far ahead... (And become Homo triple sapiens)
If the embryo/fetus can't yet survive with incubators then it should be aborted, the end.

>>730744858
Condoms are not 100% effective.

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>>730748763
Forgot the photo

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>>730747978
So whether a baby is a human depends on literally whether it is inside a womb or not.

That means you weren't a human for 9 months of your life.

Oh wait, that's contradictory

>>730747834
>I know this one!
'What is Transgender?'

>>730745302
No, I was not a human until I could survive on my own, outside of vampirically feeding off of my mother.

>>730748101
Never assume, my dear fellow.

A person's a person, no matter how small

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>>730749018
fucking kek

>>730749115
Legally speaking Hobby Lobby is a person so that word is functionally useless to this argument. We can all agree Hobby Lobby is not alive.

>>730746091
So, sperm isn't necessary?

>>730749062
So when you're old and on a dialysis machine or being spoon fed by your grandkids to survive that means you're no longer a human being.

I knew liberals were stupid but I have to admit I didn't know it got this bad

>>730747731
are you saying that it is not a 'viable' human being? You do realize that isn't how humans are created, and they have to
>>730747902
Does a toddler not rely on the host to survive? Would you also say that someone renting a house has to comply with outrage demands outside of the contract set forth by the land lord. If the land lord in the 6 month said you had to kill one of the members renting there, would that be accepted.
>>730748413
Shit is defiantly a human byproduct.
>>730748763
Yeah I have, and no licensed surgeon preforms those types of surgeries. The ones that have lost their licenses. Also, plastic surgery it look different isn't the same as amputation. (just talked with a doctor and surgeon, and doing that type of stuff goes against the oath they take)

>>730749062
fuck kind of logic is that?

lets say theres two babies, both at the same level of maturity (lets say 5.5 weeks). one is outside the womb, one isnt. killing one gets you life in prison, killing the other is just fine. That makes sense to you?

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>>730749018
top kek

>>730749062
not really vampiric. more symbiotic

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>>730743001

>>730749018
You talking about sex change operation? You do know they don't chop it off, they invert it. Also, transgender is a chemical imbalance in the brain.

>>730748968
Not really. Since about 6th month, the baby can be removed and stay alive outside the womb.

You only make it contradictory by assuming that being alive = being human

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>>730747834
>>730749018

Holy fucking shit XD

>>730749385
Oh yeah and I just talked to YAWEH and he says no one but him is alive so it's cool.
Besides what the fuck are you talking about "hurrr no surgeons preform that kind of surgery duurrrrr" Valeria Lukyanova has had at LEAST 2 ribs removed.
Besides the Jenner fuck had his whole penis removed. sooo.
Balls in your court bro.

>>730749454
The one outside the womb instantly dies upon contact with the 'outside' so murder is impossible.

>>730749663
So what else would it be besides human?

>>730749385
>Does a toddler not rely on the host to survive?
Toddler does not have a host retard.

>>730749371

If the day ever comes when they need to shove my aged, frail body up INSIDE of someone else to live, I will understand when no one agrees to do that. But solid effort there.

>>730747852
/thread

A necessary evil in today's promiscuous society.

>>730747852
Some machine learning algorithms fit this description. While viruses like the common cold do not. We consider the common cold 'alive' but not computer programs. So yeah.

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>>730749614
Yeah, I know, its a mental illness that should be treated with drugs & therapy.

Oh, and...

>'they don't chop it off they just mutilate it, and turn it inside out, its totally different you guys'

Well, color me convinced.

>>730749922
So where is it in relation to whether or not it's being cared for depends on the better nature of the person caring for the entity that may or may not be human, and again, that definition wholly depends on whether or not it's stuffed inside someone else.

Can you be more retarded than this?

>>730749018
fucking savage

>>730749454

What do you not understand here? As far as my knowledge extends, a 5 1/2 week old fetus would die if expelled from the womb? Until the baby has come to term (or I can grant the argument for "has developed a working nervous system/brain,") and can survive OUTSIDE of another living being, then the living being that it is piggybacking inside of has the right to terminate the little fucker. Are you honestly so dense that this doesn't make sense?

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>>730749018

>>730743001
it's fucking hilarious

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>>730749018

>>730749018
That's pretty good, I kekd

>>730750203

I'm sorry, can you re-word that argument? I'm having a very hard time parsing exactly what the fuck you're trying to say. If you need to be this obtuse when stating your viewpoint, you clearly don't grasp it that well.

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>>730749018
forty keks

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>>730749018
kekd n rekt
>this nigger got a point tho

>>730749787
A fetus.

Do you consider an egg to be a chicken? Or a caterpillar to be a butterfly?

>>730750598
You're trying to tell me that being a human depends on whether or not you're hooked up to an umbilical cord and stuffed up some woman's snatch. I'm saying that's not a fair assessment of a human being because it favors convenience to an abortion over the fact that it's a human being inside her belly

>>730750925
>inside her belly.
Shouldn't you be doing homework? It's a supramolecular assembly if you really wanna be anal about it. PART of a human. Not a separate entity till it can sustain it's own vital processes with it's own tissues, organs, musculature etc.

>>730750925
How do you tell it is not just a part of the woman? It has somehow different DNA but so do different parts of your body. When you are born, you have up to 50 different DNA variations and this number only increases as you get older. Every cold also changes a lot of your body's DNA by the virus rewriting it.

>>730751293
Go read a biology book. I'm going to bed

>>730743001
should be mandatory

>>730751398
It's ok. We all know it's a school night.
>Read a biology textbook
kek
Bitch please, like you didn't just have to google what supramolecular assembly means.

>>730750925

Okay, I can see where you're coming from, and also that we have strayed into semantics as we are now just arguing two different views on when a fetus becomes a person. You say from the moment of fertilization, I argue that it's when the fetus is no longer intrinsically dependent on the womb and environs for survival. I guess the crux of my argument is that up until the point where separation is viable, it is actually a part of the mother's biological system. She can have a cancerous clump of cells or an organ that is malfunctioning removed at her behest, and I see little difference in a fetus that is not developed enough to survive on its own.

>>730750156
That's idiotic. A living form needs basic elements, such as carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, magnesium, phosphorus and sulfur. Learning algorythms have none of those. And as I said, biology doesn't explain it all but it can give us a good picture to where to start from. You're getting at a rather philosophical approach, wich is not wrong, but your premisses is

>>730743001
Call Dr. Deletus, he'll take care of the fetus!

>>730743001
A friend of mine had an abortion today. Not as expensive as having the kid.

>>730753112
That's not the argument that was presented but ok. Move the goal again I'll line up for another kick.
if all that is required is chemical reactions most of the observable universe is one big life form. I don't see what you're getting at here.

>>730743001
It should be allowed. If someone is even considering abortion, they arent fit to be a parent. Save that child from a miserable life.

>>730753821
Chemical and nuclear reactions. oops.

>>730748891
But they are 99.8% effective.