Is it possible to disprove that God exists?

Burden of proof relies on the onw making the claim

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

>>730568214
No, there is no evidence to really suggest god does exist either. However, there is strong evidence of evolution all around us, but even that doesn't actually negate the existence of a god all together.

>>730568214
Is it possible for you to go a day without posting this stupid shit?
There's no need to disprove that which is unproven, not to mention that which has no shred of good evidence at all.

>>730568528
Well, god was always there in the history of mankind, now you guys start to claim that he doesnt exist. Prove it then.

>>730568214
Can you prove that invisible pink unicorns don't exist? No, you can't. Does that mean you should believe they do? No, it doesn't.

You can disprove certain Gods exist by the claims they make.
If the God is proven to have an illogical existence then he does not exist.

>>730568996
That statement is incorrect. So no.

>>730569052
Sure you can, you can analyse the molecular structure off the air and try to find some fucked-up horses

>>730569095
Name one culture that had no god

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>>730568214

disproving religious dogma is possible and often easy. Disproving the existence of a sentient creator is not possible.

>>730569131
Nope. You can't "analyse" all the air in the world, dumbass. Plus, these unicorns aren't only invisible, they exist in a plane outside our dimension. Prove I'm wrong.

>>730569155
>no god
Which god? Cause there are thousands.

>>730569155
Buddhists.

>>730569236
Any God

Nope no way to tell if there is a God.

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You guys get it wrong.Its not about proving his existince. Its about calling out his cruelty and those who call it love and follow it with devotion.They would not let any human,mortal leader do it..so since he "made" us and is godly...they can overlook it.They can ALWAYS fall back on faith to make their claim of existence.Its much harder to when you SEE the absence and blatant cruelty.

>>730569155
Various aboriginal and native cultures were animists. Most Asian cultures have long been into ancestral worship. There have been hundreds of nontheistic cultures throughout history and even today.

>>730568214
Don't care if he exists or not, until I'm given proof otherwise I'll live happy thinking people are hilarious for believing in fairytales.

>>730569310
I think God is malevolent.
He purifies his own will like he purifies the sins of mankind, through the sacrifice of the Logos.

God is malevolent to make superior sentient beings.

>>730568214
Which one?

>>730569234

Well you're the one making that claim, so you have to prove it. Just like how Atheists claim there is no God. Also >>730569131 is correct. You could just analyze the air, and if there's nothing there, then no pink unicorns exist in the air.

>>730569310
Humans don't need a god to be cruel, it just makes for organised cruelty

>>730568996
>god was always there
Prove it.

>>730568214
It's impossible to prove a negative. I can't prove to you that Santa Clause doesn't exist if you insist that your faith is such that you believe he does exist. I can only show you that his existence is not very likely.

Lemme try

Plants don't need god. They don't need consciousness at all. Consciousness isn't necessary to life. The question is: is god necessary to life?

God as a creator, no. We can understand with modern science how procreation works.

God as an idea, no. Plants are a life form. Heck if they know.

That said, god only exists as an idea. Everyone capable of the idea has a slightly different idea due to our unique perspectives.

That said, there is no " the god". " God" in it's full presence exists as a different copy in everyone mind, across a multi dimensional spectrum.

The best proof against god is our existence. We made it up because our genes make us. It's a byproduct of our conscious brain. We suffer from being specialized in awareness as a species because it allows us to plot narratives relating to the very concept of existence. We have over developed brains, which isn't necessary, it just happens to be that way, and therefor, thinking about life and wanting it to have meaning are innate behavior to our species, and therefor also spirituality. God is alive because we are. God is a part of our biology, but it isn't really a god. It's a blind spot in our analytic minds. It's a feedback loop of our self aware beings.

Existence is meaningless and we just exist to tell the tale.

>>730569538
>It's impossible to prove a negative. I can't prove to you that Santa Clause doesn't exist

Yeah, you can actually. Simply go to the north pole and go to the very point and have a look and see if there is a workshop with a bunch of elves, reindeers and Santa himself. Not that hard.

>>730568214
I never thought of it like that
Not only a handsome dude, but very clever

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>>730569198
Considering what a bloody mess our species it, from sociological to genetic, the claim of a sentient creator is questionable, at the very least.

>>730568214
If I roll dubs, god exists.

>>730569681
Welp, there's your proof, OP.

>>730569497
>Well you're the one making that claim, so you have to prove it.

Correct

> Just like how Atheists claim there is no God.

Incorrect. Atheism literally means "without theism" - meaning lacking the belief of the positive claim that god exists.

Learn your shit before you try to troll, kiddo.

>>730569681
If I roll dubs, your mother dies in her sleep if you don't respond.

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>>730569572

Jesus Christ. Everything you wrote was just your personal assumptions upon assumptions, and you stated it all as fact. You sound like some edgy high school teenager going through puberty.

>>730569528
They need to see that.They do.

>>730569497
>You could just analyze the air, and if there's nothing there, then no pink unicorns exist in the air.

Read what you linked to, faggot. They exist outside our dimension. You can't prove they don't exist. Also >>730569713

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>>730569713

Yeah, nah thats Agnosticism mate.

>>730569572
"is god necessary" =/= "is there a god"

You do realize that the majority of humans in history were also highly illiterate, if not completely.

>>730568214
Isn't this why there is agnosticism?
There may or may not be, but we won't know until we die or something like that

>>730569788

Yeah, you could. If you had a device that could detect beings from another dimensions. Just because we don't have tools, doesn't mean we can't measure things. At one point in history we could not fly in airplanes, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to do so, because we do it today.

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>>730568214
If I were to give a mathematical probability rounded to nearest whole number it would equal null, zero, nothing. I find the evidence provided the believers is insufficient and circumstantial at best. But I can not defacto beyond a reasonable doubt disprove that he exists

>>730568528
/thread

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You're all a bunch of faggots

>>730569800
Theism = belief in a God
A (prefix) = lack of
Atheism = lack of belief in a God

>>730569653
Then the reply by the beliver would be.. "Well he doesn't really live at the North Pole. It's just a ruse to fool the weak minded."

>>730568996
This is just not true. Polytheism existed way before "God". People worshiped every fucking thing.

>>730569800
No, it's not.

The root word of agnosticism is gnostic, meaning "to know."

Agnosticism deals with knowledge, atheism with belief. The two are different, and are not mutually exclusive. No one can "know" that god exists or not, despite what some may claim. But atheists don't believe that god does exist. The vast majority of atheists are agnostic atheists. You can be an agnostic theist as well, in that you admit you cannot know there is a god, but you believe there is.

Again, learn your shit before you speak.

>>730569538
>It's impossible to prove a negative
No it's not.

>>730568214
No, but you can't prove that he does either, so there is no good reason to believe that he does.

>>730569871
There was this rumor when I was in middle school that the Russian's invented a machine called: The Angel Machine
It basically took footage of our heat signature and infrared waves of our dying bodies and it showed that every dying body produced a white cloud that would come out at the exact moment of death and slowly fading away

Like I said it was a rumor so don't take it so hard

Why not believe in the Christian God when you claims he will send non-believers to hell forever.

I think this is the way that God argues, it plays upon man's sense of caution.
If you there is no God and you die, you've lost nothing.
If there is a God you gain eternal life.

Too bad that monster Muhammad stole God's line of reasoning and used it to manipulate entire populations for wicked aims.

However, the message from the Gospel contains no logical errors, while the Quran does. It is easy to see who is the truth.

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>>730569800
Typical retarded theist having no idea what he's talking about.

Perhaps a picture will help you.

>>730568528
Both groups make claims, retard.

>>730569572
Also, god as a perfect entity does not exist. we as alledged creations are normally capable of morality and judgement. We can verify that the world is imperfect, and that there is more discomfort, injustice and suffering than divine, awe inspiring experience. A perfect, absolute, all powerful entity must be able to, without restriction, facilitate an infinitely perfect experience for an infinite amount of time. The sheer observation of this fallacy means that I am already more potent than God, seeing as our world as flawed and my mind as biologically subscribed to concepts of perfection. God can be anything: the higher self, the excuse of the ego, an explanation beyond reason, an excuse to be above morality.

God is a perverse concept. Consiousness isn't necessary, yet we are supposedly created to have to wonder about what life is.

If there was a god, we wouldn't be able to doubt it. We wouldn't have been created with that level of awareness. The world, this universe, the way the odds are divided, with all its coincidences, accidents and synchronicities, could be 100% identical if it were truly divine: all it needs is for us to be unable to question it..

But we can. Therefor God exists as a separate entity, a theological, philosophical question, so much that it is even given a role external of this universe: some heaven or superior realm.

If god existed, we shouldn't be able to doubt it. We would observe and sense this world the same: except not with the burden of existential dread.

>>730570013
Yeah, it is. You're stupid.

>>730570041
We can explain that with thermodynamics. That energy will seek equilibrium. No mystery here. this is just heat energy being dispersed

>>730570159
But only one group makes a positive claim. And the burden of proof is on the party making the positive claim.

>>730570227
You didn't post that. Prove me wrong. Oh way, you can't.

>>730568214
God is malevolent and spends all eternity stabbing you in the balls after you're dead if you're a good person. If you are a woman, you were born without balls or lost them in a freaky accident xe (because God is a gender jelly pre-op male) grows a new pair on you and stabs them. Forever.

Disprove that.

>>730570227
Retard.

>>730570277
Exactly, can't prove a negative.

Jesus died to save the world from sin, Odin died to save the world from frost giants. There's still plenty of sin in the world, but there aren't any frost giants. This proves the Norse gods are real and the god of Abraham and Issac isn't. Prove me wrong.

>>730569766
you stated it all as fact. You sound like some edgy high school teenager going through puberty.

these are just assumptions

>>730570335
You're not making sense.

>>730570371
Heard a similar story where some cunt killed most of the giants that roamed earth during biblical times

>>730570269
Good job moving the goalpost there. I guess we never needed a proof for Fermat's last theorem because he was making a negative claim?

And just before you throw the religious insults at me, I'm an atheist and I don't even claim to be agnostic about it. I think believing in a God is retarded.

>>730570458
Neither are you. You can't prove a negative. You're making the positive claim that you can prove a negative, so the burden of proof is on you. So tell me, how do you prove a negative? I'm interested in seeing the fucking mental gymnastics on this one.

>>730570545
Yeah, believing in god is retarded.
The point about the positive claim part is simply that
>there is a god
>present some proof
>no, you disprove it
See how retarded it is?

>>730570558
There are no triplets (a, b, c) of different positive integers such that a^n + b^n = c^n for any natural number n greater than 2.

That's a negative claim, and there is a proof for that.

>>730570545
Not him, but I'll step in.

You claim that both sides are making claims. As an atheist, I am not. I am rejecting the positive claim that god exists. I'm not claiming that god does not exist - I'm rejecting the claim that he does based on insufficient evidence. Most atheists are. So no - both sides are not making positive claims. You're incorrect.

>>730570522
How dare this cunt claim the glory of Odin's work! I have no choice but to brutally murder all those who spread such lies!

>>730570644
>There is no god
>present some proof
>no u

How can you not see that is equally retarded?

>>730569963

But Santa Claus lives in the North Pole. That's how the story goes.

>>730568214
I would agree to anything for a man that gorgeous. No homo. Love everything about him.

>>730568996
How can you prove that?

>>730570681
That's not a negative claim. That's a positive assertion of something not existing. That's not what atheists are doing - they are rejecting a belief. I don't believe god exists. That's not a positive assertion - that's the rejection of one.

>>730570545

A reasonable person!

>>730570145

Nope, I'm Agnostic. Not a religious nut and not a neckbeard.

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>>730570558
There's no milk in the glass.

You want proof?
You think you can handle what you ask for?
Where did it all come from?
"It always existed"
What is its informationally structure?
How is it's existence informed of itself?

When you learn to uncover these mysteries, you shall see God.

>>730570392

Nah, it's a fact that teens spout nonsensical pseudo intellectual mumbo jumbo and later look back at their teen atheist stage and cringe.

>>730570835
Prove that there's air in the cup
>Protip: you can't

>claims there is no God
>b-b-but i'm not claiming there is no God! It's just fact!

Why are Atheists just as retarded as christians and sandniggers?

>>730570684
Clearly not. You may merely reject the claim, but I don't see any evidence that that is the norm. There are plenty of threads every day where one side asks the other side to prove their claim. The whole new atheism movement is about questioning religious beliefs and trying to "eradicate" them.

Which is a noble goal by the way, religion is a cancer on society. It's just silly to say atheists (in general) aren't making a claim.

>>730570974
Why?

>>730570976
see
>>730570798
and
>>730570684

If anyone's a pure empiricist, the inevitable conclusion would be that everything is meaningless.
Take for instance the idea that you actually have "free will"; yet if you think about it, free will is really just another word for transactions between neurons in your brain.
Do we really know that we make the decisions that we do, or is it merely a reaction to external stimuli?
If you believe that you merely choose things because of external stimuli, then choice really is just an empty word.
The pause before concluding a thought in your mind is merely a process and nothing more.
If that is the case, then what really separates you from everything? You are a part of it right?
If you're just a direct product of everything, then you really are everything.
The floor you stand on is just as much a part of you as the air you breathe and the molecules that integrate it into your body.

Just as a speck of dirt would move in the direction of the wind.
A true atheist would accept futility entirely and live the rest of his days perceiving life completely trivial.
I highly doubt that such a person could continue to live at all.

>>730570976
I'm claiming I don't believe in him, I could care less if he actually exists or not, it has 0 influence on the world as it stands.

>>730570734
That goes back to the inability to prove a negative.
Christians are making the positive claim that there is a god. Therefore, the burden to prove the existence of said god is on them. Are you really this daft?

>>730568528
This is an argument about the proof itself, not the statement god exist you hyperautist

>>730570976
Retard of the year right here.

>>730569131
No you retard, you can only proof they exist if you find them, but you could never proof the opposite

>>730571008
Well, I disagree with you. Maybe edgy atheist teenagers on here may make a positive claim that god does not exist, but the ones I speak to, and the prominent atheist speakers on the topic, do not.

Besides, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of atheists who say "god doesn't exist" know very well that they can't "know" that, and are really saying that they don't believe he does.

>>730571045
From everything that we know today about our universe it is clear that life and our existence is entirely meaningless. When our sun nears its end it will engulf the planet and wipe everything that we ever did away forever. There won't be any trace of evidence left aside from the two voyager spacecrafts and the radio transmissions we've created.

Longer away still even those things won't matter when the universe goes cold. Life is meaningless.

>>730569830
This is how I try to answer that question. Is there a god? Well, if there would be a god, it would be necessary. So I verify that god isn't necessary, and that this life can do without. That notion is proof against god. Nobody needs god. We are just equipped to doubt, argue, or be erratically convinced of the hypothesis. That;s because we evolved to do so, and this doesn't mean whatever we can imagine necessarily exists.
God isn't necessary, therefor, there is no reason to believe one exists. It doesn't make any difference if you're a sensible human being either. God is a useless, cumbersome idea, the only thing to make it belong to history is more evolution when our brains adapt to get rid of those parts that makes us want to believe in god. Either way, there is no god. It's a symbol of existential anonymity. It can not be described. It can not be diagnosed. It can not be named. This enrages people. Look at this tread. Look at the world. Religion sucks ass. Humanity, but life in general is a fine argument against religion. Religion, theology, is not necessary and when considered, better off without.
A real god wouldn't have devised it like this, for his creatures to ruin his perfect paradise with the very tools he's given them. We continue to be aware of the question of god because we are mentally capable. Our imagination and intellect as a species surpasses this of any notion of a perfect creator, because we can observe the wrongness of the world. We got this notion, this compass for beauty and morality from life itself and combined with progressed self awareness, the notion of the " most supreme perfection" has come to be. It's only in the mind. The world and the universe don't care. Rationally, you know a god with unlimited time, power and perfection doesn't do the stuff you see around you.

If this universe is created by God, I think he's afk or this was a test version. That, or god is mentally challenged because shit is retarded.

>>730569271
>name one culture that didn't make up a god to explain the things they were ignorant of
not to mention they're highly contradictory different gods
u can't be this dumb
try harder

>>730571267
We'll have either killed ourselves or moved on from Earth a long time before our sun dies anon

>>730570815
did you literally just close your eyes, plug your ears, and respond "nope"? because that's what it seems like you did. take your time and try again

>>730570798
There is no god is also not a negative claim then. It's a positive assertion of god not existing. Yet, this thread is full of "can't prove muh negative" in reaction to this supposedly "positive" claim.

>>730571087
>That goes back to the inability to prove a negative.
Yes you can. Stop hiding behind that stupid catchphrase.

Negative claim: There is no integer q that is the multiplicative inverse of 0.
Proof: Assume there exists such a q such that q*0 = 1. It then follows that 0 = 1. This is a contradiction, therefore there does not exist such a number.

>>730571429
Even if you believe that (it's possible, and a hopeful thought) then life still doesn't matter because from everything that we observe we see that the universe will become cold and dead because of its expansion.

>>730571705
>There is no god is also not a negative claim then. It's a positive assertion of god not existing.

Correct. Which is already what I explained that atheism, by definition, is not. Three times in this thread I've explained that now. Not sure what else I can tell you.

>>730571008
the only claim atheism makes imo is that nobody should believe religion's bullshit

Usually when an atheist says "god doesn't exist" it's in response to someone's logically flawed definition of God, meaning that specific definition of God cannot exist. To say that ANY god doesn't exist is another thing.

The Spirit rises up from the ground and all these wars are over.

>>730571817
Ohh I agree with that bit, just didn't think we had the longevity to see out our sun, heh

>>730571888
*nods and smiles*
*backs away slowly*

>>730568214
No nor can you disprove yoda or unicorns though

2nd law of thermodynamics/entropy
read a book!

>>730571839
Just because you claim it doesn't make it so. The etymology of the word is irrelevant to its actual use. Its meaning is derived from its use, not its etymology. People who subscribe to atheism generally want to be critical of religion, they are therefore making the claim that religion isn't logical or even that it's incorrect.

I'm not even against you. Just don't pretend you aren't also making a claim. If you weren't making a claim and had no opinion you wouldn't be in this thread.

>tfw atheists believe in 1 less God than most modern day theists do and it causes such faggotry conflict

>>730571705
>Negative claim: There is no integer q that is the multiplicative inverse of 0.

Again, not a negative claim. That's a positive assertion, and it's backed by the proper evidence to show that it's true. You really are struggling with this, aren't you?

I have been to places claimed to be haunted by demons, and i can say if demons exist there has to be a light to the darkness and if not fuck everything...

If this ends with a 4 then God is real

If god is omnipotent, can it "not exist"?
So, if someone manages to proof that god doesn't exist, you can't deny it isn't another one of God's miracles.

>>730571939
Unicorns are real though. They roam the beautiful countryside of the True Korea.

>>730571893
Then we can all continue to account only for timescales relevant to our human life so we can pretend our life will have meaning. Because fuck you, universe.

>>730572001
If I said 2+2=5 and you said "I don't believe you, and I will need more evidence, and here's why I don't believe you"
would you be making a claim?

>>730568214
The better question is:
Does it fucking matter?

In your everyday life, how much would change based solely on the confirmation of God existing or not?

"Oh, God exists, let me get 2% instead of 1% milk."

"Oh God doesn't exist, Let me shitpost instead of adding to a discussion."

Most people aren't going to radically change everything about themselves on one bit of new information.

As for the burden of proof:

God exists, prove it.
God doesn't exist, prove it.

It doesn't matter if you're Theist or Atheist.
If you are the one making the claim, prove it.

>Atheism is the denial of theism
Alright then, I'm A-Atheist, I deny the denial, you still have to prove it.

I make a claim that I have some trees in my yard.
Someone says that I don't have trees in my yard.

Which is making the positive assertion?
You don't know which is the positive until you know whether or not my lawn has trees.

I do have trees in my yard.
>claimed I do, positive
>claimed I don't, negative

I don't have trees in my yard.
>claimed I do, negative
>claimed I don't, positive

>>730572001
I am making claims when I'm talking about religion, sure. But I'm not making a claim when I say that I don't believe god exists. You're mixing up belief with knowledge. There is a key difference between the two. Claims of knowledge deal with facts, and have the burden of proof on the claimant. Rejection of unfounded claims (i.e., I don't believe god exists) do not have that burden.

>>730572084
>if demons exist
that's a big if there bud
>fuck everything
why? just keep living

>>730571267
Without God it is meaningless.
I believe we choose how we interpret life.

Whether existence has a meaning or not, really comes down to the individual, but the baseline of this dimension is meaninglessness. I think that is a good starting point though.

No matter what we do in, there will always be various small to large jumps in conclusions and faith.

How do we really know that the world does not cease to exist once it is out of our perception? The truth is, we don't but we generally assume we do. That's a jump in logic in itself.

That's kind of how I see faith. There's lots of evidence in the events in the bible has happened. I think it's plausible to deduce that Christ is likely to exist.

I really hope he forgives me for being on /b/ though. haha.

I don't think we will ever have concrete evidence against the existice and therefore there will always be religious fuckwits on our planet

>>730572091
well look's like we've sorted this one fags

>>730572246
ar·chae·ol·o·gy
/ˌärkēˈäləjē/
noun
noun: archaeology; noun: archeology

the study of human history and prehistory through the excavation of sites and the analysis of artifacts and other physical remains.

>>730572036
Good job attacking a strawman by zooming in on one part of my argument and ignoring the context it arose in. You could actually join a religion with that attitude.

Besides, you literally responded to

>>There is no god
>>present some proof
>>no u
>How can you not see that is equally retarded?

by saying

>That goes back to the inability to prove a negative.

So you're just jumping between the same statement being a negative claim once, and a positive assertion of god not existing another time whenever it suits your narrative.

>>730572308
Your point?

>>730572195
>Without God it is meaningless.
Uhh no? You're saying any scenario where we don't live for eternity is meaningless. Uhh no.
>There's lots of evidence in the events in the bible has happened.
There's lots of fictional novels that mention real-life places and events, doesn't mean all of the fictional bits are true as well. eg. Spiderman takes place in New York.

>>730570062
>don't believe in God, got to hell
>believe in God, infinite good boy points
>got nothing to lose m8

Oh man always this shit.
What makes you think that there is an afterlife anyway? Life just ends, nothing special or scared about it.

>>730572158
>Most people aren't going to radically change everything about themselves on one bit of new information.

lolwut. The knowledge of God existing or not would literally change everything and how people live their lives. The fuck are you on about anon?

>>730572342
I think you're mixing me up with the other guy you're arguing with. I wasn't interested in the rest of your argument. I was just pointing out that what you presented as a "negative claim" was not.

>>730572349
I can lead a car to water, but will it float?
I can also put my penis in a drunk girl, but will she like it?
What's your point that I don't get because I don't want to understand?

I can prove that you cannot prove either:

In case someone manages to prove god doesn't exist, it can be one of god's miracles (god is omnipotent) and more evidence for god

based on this, god both exists and doesn't, so it's up to the observer

>>730568214

Proving something does not exist by it previously and continuously not existing
before and now still with no proof.

Are you a Billionaire because you tell everyone even though you live in a park and
talk to animals, you say they understand what it is that you're saying to them,
but you're not insane not by a long shot you've been tested by a battery tester
it was not positive so you're not crazy.

>The bible brought to you by the same people that told you the earth was flat.

>>730572426
God comes down, adds a commandment, use of electricity and plumbing is against his view of the natural order.

How many people are going to get rid of their computers and toilets?

>>730572180
>Rejection of unfounded claims (i.e., I don't believe god exists) do not have that burden.

>unfounded claims
You're calling the idea that god exists unfounded. You've just used mental gymnastics to pretend you aren't making a claim by using a weasel word that actually makes a claim.

>>730570062
>the message from the Gospel contains no logical errors
TOPKEKS
http://bibviz.com

>>730572626
see
>>730572149

>>730572464
It is in the context of this discussion. Besides, negative claims don't exist if you want to go there. A negative claim is just a negation of a positive claim, but the negation of a claim is still a claim.

>>730572685
Again, weasel words. The "and here's why" is where you hid the claim in your argument.

If miracles are proof of gods existence and curing cancer
world wide in one swoop without the assistance of human
intervention would be the definition of a miracle...

CURE CANCER AS IN THE POST


Proof is in the other threads as those are filled with cancer as well
This thread is cancer.

GOD PROVEN NOT TO EXIST now you can STFU.

>>730572360
No. I'm saying that without God there is no purpose except for yourself, and when you are the only one that decides your purpose you're like a dog chasing its own tail.

There's lots of evidence of miraculous events and crazy super natural things, but it's up to every individual to interpret is as he wants.

>>730568214
muh "show me something that does not exist" meme fallacy

>>730572782

Miracles have always been at the hands of man
those not informed or not educated in the ways for achieving certain things, GOD DID IT!.

God for the uneducated in the ways of workings

>>730572790
>No. I'm saying that without God there is no purpose
I agree with this (up until the part where I stopped quoting). Life has no meaning but a God and an afterlife could add meaning. Why would you need that though? Just accept that it doesn't have meaning.

>There's lots of evidence of miraculous events and crazy super natural things that actually are very natural things that we understand and can explain today
fixed that for you

"Oh look a universe of perfect harmony and order."
"Can't prove that. Probably random chance and chaos behind it all."

"Oh, look the laws of nature appear to be constant but we can't prove it."
"I doubt they would be able to disorganize and reorganize them so harmoniously. Probably not chaos and chance behind it all."

-Empirical Atheists
>:}

>>730572626
>You're calling the idea that god exists unfounded. You've just used mental gymnastics to pretend you aren't making a claim by using a weasel word that actually makes a claim.

I'm not following. The idea that god exists, in terms of tangible evidence, is indeed unfounded. We know this because if there were tangible evidence, it would not be an open question. The assertion that god exists is a claim. Me rejecting that assertion based on a lack of evidence is not a claim - it's the rejection of one. Sure, I may be claiming there is no evidence, but that claim is backed by facts in that there is indeed no evidence. The claim I've made is solid, and it allows me to reject the claim that god exists. I never once said I have never made a claim - I have said that me rejecting the claim that god exists is not a claim, and does not require a burden of proof. It's pretty cut and dry. I don't know why you're not getting this.

>>730572768
the "here's why" is just extra and not actually necessary, it just adds justification for the disbelief and the requirement for evidence to the contrary

I can't disprove OP is a fag

>>730572943
If that's how you choose to go about life, so be it. I did it. I approached faith with skepticism. Now I know Christ is real. No harm done. To each his own. #yolo

>>730573001
who the fuck says that
get a grip

>>730572186
I was skeptical myself but i went o this place said to be the most haunted building in my city, i was fucking scared shitless by the things i saw and felt there, there was something dark in this place, and if there is no light to go with the dark than what is the point?

>>730573016

I'm not following. The idea that god doesn't exist, in terms of tangible evidence, is indeed unfounded. We know this because if there were tangible evidence, it would not be an open question. The assertion that god doesn't exist is a claim. Me rejecting that assertion based on a lack of evidence is not a claim - it's the rejection of one. Sure, I may be claiming there is no evidence, but that claim is backed by facts in that there is indeed no evidence. The claim I've made is solid, and it allows me to reject the claim that god doesn't exist. I never once said I have never made a claim - I have said that me rejecting the claim that god doesn't exist is not a claim, and does not require a burden of proof. It's pretty cut and dry. I don't know why you're not getting this.

~The A-Atheist guy from earlier.

>>730573106
>Now I know Christ is real.

You believe Christ is real. That's not something you can know, despite how much you want to believe you do.

Part of my reason for still believing in God (among many others) is that there has never been an atheist that could convince me that he isn't real. The great irony is they sit back and sneer and say nothing but "provide your sources!" and then "that source isn't credible!" or the classic "Jesus probably never existed" yet in so doing they fail to convince a single Christian through their lack of a thorough argument. I love debating atheists because their lack of substantial points reinforces what I already believe.

>>730568214
you can't proof that something don't exist

>>730568214
If God exists - give me dubs on this post

>>730573243
Show me the proof that you can't prove it.

>>730573187
You really think know what I know?

>>730573255
Wellll sheeeit

>>730573228
So you're admitting to approaching these discussions with confirmation bias? Color me surprised.

>>730573255
dubs checked

>>730573261
Damn. lack of sleep.
You really think *you know what I know?

>>730573131
you need to watch some Derren Brown or James Randi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51B8MzcxOX0

I'm sure I can't convince you that you didn't experience things, but the human senses are very susceptible to error, especially if you go to a location with the preconception that it's "haunted". Usually someone sees or hears something that they can't fully make out, and jump to conclusions irrationally.

>>730573261
In this case? Absolutely. Because you're claiming to know something that can't be known.

What would you say to someone who "knows" that Muhammad is real? Thy're wrong and you're right? Why? They probably obtained their knowledge through the exact same divine revelation you claim to have received your knowledge from. It's all psychological. You're imprisoned in your beliefs by your own mind.

>>730573228
when they tell you that your sources aren't credible or your argument is logically flawed, do you ever try to provide valid sources and logically sound arguments, or do you just chuckle and stick your thumb back up your ass?

>>730573291
Cheers God

>>730573259
you lost your keys
you can't proof that your keys are not in your room. you only can proof that they are in your room or that you can't find them, but you can't proof that they are not in your room.

>>730573283
I forgot to mention the "argument sheet" that all atheist use, thanks anon. Much like liberals labeling everyone they encounter as "racist" "xenophobic" or "sexist", the atheist has become lazy and (like you) failed to provide any meaningful argument I can hold onto.

Saying I have "confirmation bias" is a neat little trick, but when you take a step back, it does nothing to prove or disprove God's existence. Textbook example of how atheists fail to convince anyone of their viewpoint.

>>730573357
I was pushed to the ground. no amount of senses can make that happen, something that wasn't there pushed me onto my ass

>>730573160
Indeed. And now we're pretty much back here: >>730570734

Repeat ad infinitum.

>>730573450
I can prove they aren't in my room by showing that I found them in the kitchen.

>>730568214
you fool ,

by logic if we can't disapprove and not prove that something exist we stay at the same non 'existing point'.

by this logic it means that god has no more proof than the teeth ferry or the flying spaghetti monster.

fool.

>>730573187
Semantics.
To know something - have knowledge of.

To know with certainty - > implies a deductive argument.

We aren't even certain of anything science has provided. It's mostly abductive reasoning.

>>730573461
>Saying I have "confirmation bias" is a neat little trick

It's not a trick - you stated that you have it. You said yourself that you love debating atheists because it reinforces what you believe. You're not going into it with an open mind.

>>730573469
have you ever seen those videos of preachers knocking people over without touching them by swinging their arms at them? the audience wasn't full of actors. people are susceptible to this type of shit, and it's not miraculous. it's highly explainable.

>>730573525
The difference between belief and knowledge is not a matter of semantics. There are indeed things we can be certain of - everything else falls into the category of belief.

>>730573461
I don't agree that atheists don't convince anyone. Sure, you may be a lost cause but your kids are likely to become atheists because good education will lead to atheism more often than not.

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You can't prove or disprove something that isnt even based within a logical line of thought.
There's nothing to measure, no data to gather only the accounts and opinions of either random people or the scribblings of some specific mongoloid from hundreds/thousands of years ago. There's no point trying to prove or disprove god, just let them believe what they want. Whatever floats your boat without sinking mine.

>>730573588
I was alone, and in a room by myself no priest or anything, i felt hands on my chest and next thing i know im sitting on my ass in the middle of the floor.

>>730573499
That's the issue.

The rejection of a claim is in itself a claim.
Cars run on gas.
No, they do not.

The first, is true, and could be proven by showing a car run on gas.
The second, as a rejection, is true, and can be proven by showing an electric car.

If anyone asserts a claim, or a rejection it is up to them to prove their claim or rejection.
You can't simply have:
Apples grow from trees.
No, prove to me they do.
You are have just as much responsibility to prove they don't.

>>730573461
>Textbook example of how atheists fail to convince anyone of their viewpoint.

There are millions of atheists in the world who started off as theists. I personally know several who became atheists based on logical arguments. To state that atheists "fail to convince anyone" is intellectually dishonest - although I think you know that and you're speaking from emotion.

>>730573600
Certain according to who?
You aren't certain of material phenomena, only of your sense data. We try to form a coherent conceptualization of nature based upon our sense data, but what if our senses lied to us? It is not a deductive argument for knowledge.

It seems highly unlikely that all of our senses would lie to us collectively, but that is just an inductive argument.

>>730573383
You can keep your opinion however you want, but I'm not going to deny that I do know what I know.

I really do know Christ is the son of God because of personal experience.

So you think it can't be known. So what?
So you think it's psychological. So what?

I'm not going to deny my personal experiences, cause that's just crazy.
Christ is real. I don't care what anyone thinks.
I do what I want.

>>730573729
Glad we agree. Now the other guy in the discussion.

The point of Christianity isn't to prove the existence of God or not.

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." - John 20:29

Christianity is about FAITH. If either claim is proven then that's not FAITH anymore, it's KNOWLEDGE. Religions exist because of the ambiguous nature of the world.

>>730572522

Most people would. Because God is real. Some will rebel. Alot would ask why.

>>730573506
you just proofed that your keys are in the kitchen, not that they are not in your room.

with proofing they are in the kitchen, it is a logical conclusion that they are not in your room. this is a diffrent thing from proofing they are not in your room.
you need to proof they are not in your room first before you look in other rooms to make that works, and this is impossible.

to come back to the original topic, god, you can proof a religion wrong but you can't proof that god don't exist. how can you proof it when the omnipotent god don't want you to find out?

>>730573651
So your best explanation is that it was a demon or a dark entity? Instead of going "wow, I wonder what that was... guess I won't know without doing some investigating", your best answer is that it's a demon. That's not very skeptical of you. That's called jumping to conclusions. It's what primitive cultures did when they invented all of their fictitious gods to explain the unknown like thunder and lightning.

>>730568214
No. It is also impossible to disprove that we're all in the Matrix.

>>730573461
>I forgot to mention the "argument sheet" that all atheist use

topkek. along with 'ad hominem', 'moving the goal post', 'false dichotomy', 'strawman' etc. So predictable and cringey. Just repeating the same shit just like SJWs!

>>730573532
Stating that conversations I've held in the past have only helped convince me more is just that. You might be butt hurt that I feel that way, but it in no way implies that I'm going to feel that way when I argue with someone in the future. I keep an open mind and who knows? You may say something that convinces me. But like most lazy atheists, you have nothing to go on. You cling to your "Label Sheet" which as I said, is a neat trick, but does nothing either way to prove or disprove God.

A more useful approach is this: if you don't believe in God, fine. I get that. Even I have my doubts. But what is much more easily debatable is the life and existence of Jesus. We have source documents and eyewitness accounts to help verify the veracity of the history within the gospels. It is far, far more plausible than atheists are comfortable admitting that God is real. The only rational conclusion you can come to is that Jesus came back from the dead. That in itself is enough for me to believe and want to change my ways.

>>730573868
I can't wait until the day something paranormal happens to you you can't explain away, and i hope you think of me

>>730573787
>Christianity is about FAITH.

I believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Is my God less valid that yours?

>>730573780
>I really do know Christ is the son of God because of personal experience.
>I really do believe Christ is the son of God because of personal experience.

ftfy

>>730573826
Okay, I can re-do it and prove they are not in my room.

I remove every item from my room, picking up each item 1 by one, and making sure it is not my keys.

The room is now empty and my keys are not in my room, I know by inspecting everything I removed, that I did not remove my keys from the room. Thus, I proved they were never in the room.

>>730573770
>You aren't certain of material phenomena, only of your sense data.

There ya go - you're certain of your sense data. Everything else is a matter of belief. From your own mouth. It's not a matter of semantics.

>>730568690
Retard

>>730568214
Nope. Both sides of the fence are slinging shit back and forth for no real reason.

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Itt: autism and dumbest motherfuckers known to man.
/thread.

>>730573787
If you believe that, you're one gullible mother fucker.
If belief is required before proving itself, that should be a huge red flag unless you're retarded.

>>730568903
Completely ignoring that nobody said there was "good evidence"

>>730568214
Its possible to disprove individual gods. Some are easier than others.

The god of the abrahamic religions is pretty easy to prove doesn't exist. He defy's the law of non-contradiction and there fore cannot exist.

You can't disprove a deistic god however as no traits other than the ability to create life/the universe are attributed to him. Doesn't mean you should believe it tho.

>>730573940
They have, but I don't make assumptions. "Paranormal" just means unexplained. I don't try to explain them by making assumptions. I investigate. That's what a rational human being does.

>>730573948
Part of being Christian is supposedly religious tolerance. That means being able to acknowledge that you might have different beliefs and it's your right to do so, but that doesn't mean accepting your belief as truth.

If you believe in a FSM, it is your right to do so.

>>730573969
ok. by your logic we have to destroy every atom in the universe to proof that there is no god. destroying something to proof that your keys are not there don't work in reallife. and there would still the possibility that your keys where under your bed, the one you just throwed out of the window.

>>730569987
ROFL at this stupidity

Ppl didn't believe in God, guys. They were polytheists. Big Difference. One's singular and the other's plural.

>>730573611
No my kids will be free to chose whatever they want to believe. I merely present the evidence for and against.

I had a fairly good education. Went to what is considered a prestigious school by all objective standards. It was funny because they taught us in biology that evolution is NOT a polar bear growing fur because he is cold or sprouting wings because he wants to fly. Yet on the wall was the Animorphs poster of an ape turning into a human. Make a human turning into a dog or a lizard and its a fictional kids book, make it a gorilla and it's "science".

As usual, the secular hypocrisy did more to convince me once I saw what they were really about.

>>730574274
should we worshipping the sun again instead of god himself?

>>730574137
That's just what faith is. It would seem that your values are just incompatible with most religions then.

>>730570235
Not like your body is constantly emanating heat while you're alive or anything

>>730574314
You sound retarded and I pity your kids.

>>730574225
>Part of being Christian is supposedly religious tolerance

Deuteronomy 13. 6-11:
|
If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

So much tolerance.

>>730573769
And the reverse is true. Many hardcore atheists reverse their opinions.

Once again, you go to bat with me, but simply nitpicking and saying my statement was "intellectually dishonest" however true, does nothing in the way of proving or disproving God's existence.

But hey you want it your way? Let's play a game. My statement was intellectually dishonest anon. You win. And as usual, have failed to provide a shred of evidence or come close to saying anything that would convince me that God doesn't exist. Like all atheists, you're so caught up in winning the argument you miss the overall bigger point.

>>730570269
You see guys, there's a strict procedure for the proving of deities.

>>730574000
Well still, would you claim you don't know of the material realm of matter and energy? You would wager your belief on your knowledge using inductive reasoning. Religious believers can do the same.

>>730573780
People that don't think Christ was real don't possess enough intelligence or rational thought to merit holding a conversation with.

>>730574205
I to investigated and from my conclusion i was never shoved to my ass by something other than person other than this one time, and everything i fell down on my own i knew it was my own doing.

>>730568214
Disregarding the burden of proof and taking on the question philosophically.

The existence of god doesn't matter, if he is real or not has no bearing on the people that believe in him nor on the people that don't. Religious people that ask themselves that question are simply having doubts about their faith, non-religious are having doubts about their lack of faith. However they are both looking for an answer that affirms their belief and thus will believe the answer they want to. The question is a zero sum game that is futile to debate.

>>730568996
ghosts exist
i fucked your mother
i am 7 feet tall and black
magic exists
>haha cant prove me wrong so it has to be right weeeeeeeeeew

>>730570041
not impossible but unlikely.

every atom/mass we know is just energy. when we die the energy of our bodys have to transform into something else, or another form of energy. maybe they found a way to make it visible.

>>730573450
proof: We prove that proving that my keys are not in a room is possible. Let R be an arbitrary room, assume that my keys are not in it. Because this is a real physical room we know that there are at most a finite number of objects in the room. We can therefore enumerate all objects in finite time. When this procedure is completed, we will have enumerated all objects in the room and will know for sure that my keys are not in it. This proves that proving that my keys are not in a room is possible. QED.

>>730570371
Somebody's been reading his Facebook feed. You're so funny and insightful, anon. Where did you come up with this?

>>730568214
that is the most retarded quote in the history of retards.
bravo

>>730573893
A true atheist. Doesn't realize the irony in his statement.

You mean "Just repeating the same shit just like Atheists!" Your little cheat sheet ensures this :') Thanks anon, made my day :)

>>730570062
Except if god doesn't exist you have wasted your whole life believing in a cruel evil dictator when you could have tried to andvance understanding of the world around you. And thus you will have infinite loss. Pascal's wager is a weak argument. Try again.

>>730573948
I tried playing this game with an anon before and he couldn't hang cause he instantly saw that I was right. But who knows maybe you're different.

Who else believes in TFSM anon? Is it just you?

>>730574229
My point was not about God, It was about proving a negative.

And no, there isn't the possibility of the keys being under the bed as I inspected the mattress, springboard, railings, pillows, sheets, and covers to make sure they did not contain nor obscure my keys, There are also no holes or any such thing they could of fallen through (Even though that would be under my room, not in it.)

My logic in the whole debate is simple:
God exists, Prove it.
God doesn't exist, Prove it.
(Reject the claim that God exists, Prove it.)

Until then the whole argument for any side is meaningless.

>>730574350
I imagine the concept of faith was applied to religion to make the victim feel proud about being overwhelmingly ignorant. Its the only fallback aside from talking in circles and reciting verses.

>>730574384
What a coincidence.

>>730574538
this
>>730573826
and this
>>730574229


there is always room for failure so you can't be 100% sure.
but if you found your keys you can be 100% sure they are in your room.

>>730574384
The atheist in his natural form. My kids will turn out infinitely better than you and able to hold a debate that is substantiated by more than 5th grade insults. Once again, a fine representative of the Atheist Clan, thanks anon.

>>730574392

>quoting bible references

found the neckbeard

OP is totally right. Its why Pokemon must exist on some planet somewhere. I believe in you Pikachu! Saged btw because cancerous bait :^))))))

>>730568214
shoot up a school and ask the kids if they saw god

>>730568214
is it possible to disprove that jesus was a homosexual?

>>730574392
Christians follow the new testement bro.
Take all that Moses mumbo jumbo out of there.

#lovethyneighbor

>>730570062
>listens to anon and believes in Christ
>dies years later
>end up meeting Krishna
>thanks a lot anon

pascals wager only works if there is a single religion. Sorry to say anon but there are thousands, if not millions, of religions (if you include all the sects with in each religion).

>no logical errors
>except the numerous false claims about the physical world and the numerous contradictions.

Have you actually read the bible?

>>730574727
The proof I gave is fine. "You can always do it wrong" is not a valid argument against my proof. I have mathematically proven that it is possible to show that my keys are not in a room (assuming they are actually not in the room, obviously).

Of course that doesn't actually generalize to "You can always prove x is not y". It just negates the retarded claim that
>You can't prove that your keys aren't in your room
because yes, yes you can.

>>730570269
The burden of proof lies with the Atheist, though.

If I want to say the Earth is flat, back in the day the burden of proof would have been on you to prove it's round. But time has placed the burden of proof on the opposite party.

Atheists don't just deny God, you deny the life, miracles, and resurrection of Jesus, whom we have more source documents and written material than we do for George Washington or that the Egyptians built the pyramids, or that Homer Wrote the Iliad. These secular examples are indisputable, yet we possess more "proof" if you will about the life of Jesus than we do for any of these things, yet no one debates them. The Burden of Proof no longer lies on the Christian, anon. In fact, it never has. YOU must do the heavy lifting and deal with all inconvenient substantiating eyewitness accounts, not I. The facts and evidence have always supported the Christian.

>>730574858
>Moses wrote the 10 commandments

Guess we throw those out two do we? Or are we just gunna cherry pick which parts of the bible to accept and which not to?

>>730574753
>can't refute quite
>decides to call someone neckbeard
>that'll show him

Wow anon, never thought about it like that. You sure convinced me.

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>>730568214
you cant prove a negative so no, however its not athiests making the claim so the burden of proof lies with the religious.

I've been masturbating for ten years every single day and haven't been smote yet so i think where safe

>>730570335
Wow! So I can't disprove Poseidon, Zeus, or Aphrodite, good to know! If someone wants to claim they are real...we're all helpless!

>>730575097
dued what you got against my man zeus

>>730570558
You are the one making the positive claim though. Jesus existed. All evidence supports his life, miracles, and resurrection. Other anon has no burden of proof, you do however.

Atheists are just as braindead and annoying as Christians. Go cure cancer with your superior intelligence.

>>730574869
Technically the Christian God targets belief in Jesus. It is not a sin in other religions to believe in Jesus, is it(besides Islam)? And if you accept Jesus, then why accept other Gods...

The bible is full of errors... but the message from Jesus' mouth is logically coherent and more so than that, very brilliant. Which is what one should expect from God.

>>730574983
>Cherry pick

The ENTIRE bible is a cherry picked concoction of convenient books and passages used to unify rome.

Man has corrupted every office or group ever conceived. Yet people think religious institutions are excempt from this rot?

Believe whatever you want to believe, but organized religion is fucking stupid

>>730575097
don't talk shit about aphrodite again or i'll hunt you down you heretic

>>730568214
It is never necessary to disprove something for which there is no evidence.
Shit bait, i still replied tho, oh look, 240+ replies.
Idiots.

I met Jesus once. Nice guy, he built scaffolding for me.

>>730574972

Well no, we wouldn't have to argue that the earth is round. By back in the day i can only assume back when Christianity had all its power. Back then if we claimed the earth was round and tried to provide proof we would have been imprisoned or killed.

The bible is not proof that the bible is correct. We have multiple sources of evidence for George, the Egyptions and Homer, where as you do not. You have a single book that has been edited, translated in multiple languages only to be re-translated and re-written over hundreds of years. We do not have an original document from the bible. Closes it the dead sea scrolls and those aren't even close to being originals.


>The facts and evidence have always supported the Christian.

lol, no.

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>>730575197
jesus is a profit to islam. in fact hindus take credit for him(they say he is a life of one of their gods). maybe to jews its a sin since they are still waiting for their savior, but they are super chill, so I doubt they would call it a sin to think hes the savior, they would just say u arnt a jew...all that being said, idk what point ur trying to make.

>>730575354
I did to. he seemed a lot like you would think a dead guy would be like....

>>730575197
>besides Islam

You do no jesus is in islam as well, right? He's just a prophet, not the son of god.

The things Jesus is attributed to saying have been around for much longer than Christianity or even the bible it's self. The bible is a rip off of much older religons. You think Jesus came up with the golden rule?

And yes, it would go against other religons to accept Jesus (who is god in the flesh). considering you need to accept him and only him as the one true god, otherwise you go to hell.

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>>730571913
Most underrated convo on here.

>>730569310
Tldr; if god is all powerful he can't be all good, if god is all good he can't be all powerful.

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>>730575597
>you do no
>no
no

>>730574314
>I had a fairly good education.
Okay

>It was funny because they taught us in biology that evolution is NOT a polar bear growing fur because he is cold or sprouting wings because he wants to fly.
Good, because that is indeed not what it is.

>Yet on the wall was the Animorphs poster of an ape turning into a human.
Thus far the "good education". You realize it's not the same ape that morphs right? You realize it's small changes accumulated over a large period of time right? You know this process is guided by natural selection? This poster does not, in any way shape or form, contradict the polar bears growing fur because they are gold statement from before.

>>730575216
>organized religion is fucking stupid

Agreed. Don't really care if you believe in god, its when you start trying to prove he exists or make claims that we have to somehow disprove his existence otherwise you win (somehow) that i start giving a shit.

>>730575197
>And if you accept Jesus, then why accept other Gods
Because one of the Commandments is to NOT worship other deities.

>>730573187
I believe George Washington was the first president.

Guess I can't know for sure

>>730575692
>made a mistake on the internet
>this shame will follow me for the rest of my life
>no choice but to kill myself

Fuck.

>>730570815
the one thing atheists and the religious can agree on is that agnostics are cunts

>>730575696
>polar bears growing fur because they are gold statement from before.

They're gold? Well fuck, better go hunting.

It is impossible to prove the existence of god. There is no scientific test that could disprove the notion of a god, and hence it is not a valid scientific theory. Because there is no method of testing it.

We should believe in what we can test. And in logical reasoning. Such as why the bible seems like it was written by middle eastern guys 2000 years ago instead of an all seeing all knowing cosmic entity.

In essence, it's impossible to prove or disprove god, and so it's not even worth being a theory. It's unlikely that a god exists, and until a method of testing it's existence is created, or an actual concrete scientifically based theory of god is developed, then there is no purpose in believing that a god exists.

If your belief in god stems from not knowing where the universe came from, you can fuck right off. "We don't know yet" is the only answer there is. God of the gaps is a way for the uneducated to find comfort in the unknown.


tl;dr
Nobody belongs anywhere, nobody exists on purpose, everybody's going to die. Get used to it, and be content with your life. Also try not to be a cunt.

>>730575443
a single book that has been edited, translated in multiple languages only to be re-translated and re-written over hundreds of years

You said it yourself, the bible is proof almost all on its own. It's not "a book" as you've said, it's "multiple books" as you've said. That in itself is pretty weighty proof. A consistent view of God written by many different people over thousands of years is beyond the proof any rational person could ever hope or ask for. More so than say, the evidence surrounding the Flying Pasta Monster. Starting to see where and how that one breaks down anon?

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>>730575648
fair point. but to discuss the rationality of any particular god, you have to pick a perception of god, which is a narrow way to view such a thing. we can come up with reasons religions cant be right, but they have nothing to do with god. god could be anything, and religious people are wrong as it is. so to rest on them being wrong is not the way of those who seek truth or logic or whatever stupid shit people argue about this garbage for.. to anyone who has the brain to dismantle all this nonsense, it simply isn't worth the time or efforts of explaining it to those who don't....

>>730575844
I'm an atheist and I do no agree with this statement.

Some individuals who are agnostic are cunts, just like some atheists and some religious people. Every group has cunts, doesn't mean everyone in a particular group is.

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>>730575769

>>730574348
Yeah probably, seeing as how it's one of the main reasons you're even alive in the first place

>>730575908
>That in itself is pretty weighty proof

No, its not. A book from 2000 years ago with literally no contemporary documents supporting it is no "weighty proof" as you put it.

>A consistent view of God written by many different people over thousands of years...

Consistent? Obviously you've never read the bible because its anything but consistent. There are numerous contradictions. Whether it be about god not knowing things despite being omniscient or contradictions about how events occur and who is and who isn't at certain events.

>Starting to see where and how that one breaks down anon?

Starting to see you don't understand how logic and evidence works. Can't say I'm really surprised tho.

>>730569198
The buddhist God is called attman , Buddha speaks with him.

Dumbass

>>730575999
>worship Sun
>get sin cancer from UV rays
>it has blessed me

praise the sun.

>>730575844
well heres the thing, atheist is the term used by those who "think that there is not a god" when that's not what it means. I prefer those who don't pretend to know if there is or isn't one. they are equally shitheaded. that's why you think those groups agree on that, because they are made to look stupid by those who havnt fully shoved their head in their ass. to be on the fence is the only truth. fuck ur stupid opinions. everyone can think what they want, but when u point the finger, u better be fucking intelligent and have some fucking logic. so if you answer isn't any more convincing than the nervous guys knocking on my door trying to sell me an afterlife, then u look stupid.

>>730576159
Except some sects of Buddism do worship Budda as a god.

Dumbass.

>>730568214
Inexistence cannot be proven. The onus is on whoever states existence.

>>730575885
Yeh, well as a singular phenomena God does not fit into a first-order logical deduction proven by an experiment, but scientific theories can make room for God. Ever hear of the Soul Hypothesis?

>>730575999
something els woulda happened probly.

>>730576103
>Obviously you've never read the bible
See, why do atheists do this literally EVERY time. You were doing so well anon. You were confident, you thought you were winning. Then you go make some asinine statement like that which you cannot prove and which is in fact not true. I HAVE read it, cover to cover, more times than you I'm willing to bet. I'm well versed. I'm sorry I'm not the Christian who's never read the whole thing and you think you're going to steamroll here anon.

I can't say I'm surprised at your outright denial of indisputable substantiating evidence though. I guess by your logic then old George W may have never existed, Homer never wrote the Iliad, and aliens very well may have built the pyramids, cause if we can't prove Christ is real sure as shit can't prove the Egyptians were.

>>730568214

if he did exist, the world would be a much better place

incredibly shitty things wouldnt happen to kids and other innocents for no reason

people like fritzl's daughter wouldnt have spent decades getting raped, beaten and otherwise abused while watching her incest children dying in dirty basement

the muslims wouldnt have repelled the crusaders

priests wouldnt rape little boys in the house of god

nun orders ireland wouldnt imprison young girls in work houses for getting raped and becoming pregnant and then tear their babies away them to either dump the bodies in septic tanks, or sell the ones that lived to the highest bidders in america

etc

either your god doesnt exist at all, is neither omnipotent nor omniscient, or is both omnipotent and omniscient but is completely apathetic to the needless and prolonged suffering of his creations, or even worse hes a malevolent god

the world is too shitty and getting worse all the time to be able to believe in the christian version of god

>>730576241
a god. not god. the embodiment of god. which means a god. still the same but not.

>>730576200
Almost all scientists are agnostic.

>"A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."

It's exactly how science works. It's like saying, the other end of the universe contains a single marble. Well there's no way that you could know that, it doesn't make sense, and it's untestable, unknowable, and worthless as a theory. I can't claim to know if it does or does not exist. And it holds no weight.

That pretty much sums up God to me.

Euler and Leibneiz and Newton all proved that God does exist. If you are not smarter than Euler or Leibneiz or Newton then it's a wasted effort even to attempt it.

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so far this is the only deity I've seen evidence for

>>730576323
religions tell u god is good and dose good things. you think religions are wrong. so why would they be right about god?

This debate again...

So to understand my position, I'm basically an agnostic atheist turned into an agnostic theist lately.

Of course all existing dogma and myths are man made, in order to try to explain an idea.
And then furthered to extreme dogmatic views by religious organizations in order to achieve worldly power, so in a sense totally disconnected from their original purpose.

This idea is: there is a concious being that can affect our lives through it's !!concious!! desisions. Whether you call it GOD, Allah, Zeus whatever...

So how I turned from an agnostic atheist to an agnostic theist is the next suposition:

If a cell in my body would become self concious by whatever means, it would analize all the surounding cells, the complex mechanisms it takes for him to exist, the chemical reactions other cells make for all of them to be, the smaller bits that make up all cells, the structures that exist by working toghether, and would have an explanation for every bit that happens in his world.
But the decisions i make, would be oblivious to all cells, as their self awearness would make them think they are in charge.

Question remains, how much of my decisions are real, in this case, and wether I indeed am self concious and able to make a decision that will affect them.

SoIf I am concious, than god or gods as concius beings are not just real bun necessary.
If I,m not, well... fuck this shit :)

P.S.
This can be extrapollated up and down the scale of the known universe and beyond.

>>730576323
You assume no reason when you do not know anything about every case.

Furthermore, it's always been accepted that humans have free will and God does not have to intervene to put us into a moral straight jacket. Punishment for misdeeds comes after life, and is ultimate and ultimately just.

>>730576293
I haven't, but I'll look it up. However, the scientific method has no place for an untestable theory, period. The existence of a god can never be measured or tested, and so the debate on if it does or doesn't exist is a moot point. If we can stop focussing on god, maybe we could actually progress as a society.

>>730576528
Galaxies are just molecules for nth order dimensional beings.

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>>730576383
sounds like a personal problem to me bruh....maybe smoke some weed and stop complaining about shit.. if nothing else youll at least be complaining less....

>>730576641
>Assuming I don't smoke weed.

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>>730576627
yea dat be da trufff

>>730576320
>I HAVE read it, cover to cover

Then how can you claim it's constant when it's clearly not? Love how you ignore this, and every other point I made.

> I guess by your logic then old George W may have never existed...

We have evidence outside of what George W, homer and the Egyptions wrote/did. Do we have anything like that for the bible? No. We don't. There are no contemporary writers of the time who wrote about Jesus other than to say some people talked about him. Not exactly compelling evidence.

>>730576380
Oooooo, semantics. Every compelling.

This is why both theists and atheists are retarded.

Agnosticism is the only correct path.

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>>730576729
>assuming I would ever assume anything ever
im really just here to talk shit about assumptions in geneneral. I didn't actually get what u said tho, so I just winged my response. lol I believe in god, but have no religion, and I think its totally possible for people to learn of god. but in my opinion, hes not a part of our reality, so it would be hard for us to really know of him while in this state unless we can reduce it to feelings or psychological psychedelia based concepts. I think if people would try harder to understand thyselves, they would complain less about if there is or isn't a "god"

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>>730576963
>every
>every
>every
I was just saying faggot.... not calling ur precious semantics wrong, by no means... let me slip back on my kitty gloves for your safe space moment.....

this logic doesn't make sense. Let's say someone says that a cookie is orbiting mars. You can't disprove it and they can't prove it, and then they say you might as well believe it, because you don't know

>>730577009
You do realize that agnosticism is just a knowledge claim, right? Most atheists are also agnostic. Atheism and Theism are claims of belief.

>>730576550
>You assume no reason when you do not know anything about every case.

so theres a reason babies get cancer? who did they piss off?

besides, your god is supposed to be good and benevolent, not cruel and malevolent. even if you think god exists in some format, youre backing the wrong to follow his dictats(according to man) as a guide to live your life by when he is clearly malevolent at worst and apathetic at best

how can you believe in a just or kind god when shitty things such as cancer happen to innocent people for no reason all the time, but good things of an comparable nature literally never happen

a poor person never wins the lottery without playing

a person who is so ugly that theyre alone due to their undesirability never becomes pretty overnight

a retarded person never becomes smart

an autistic who is smart enough to know that their illness holds them back from living a normal life, but cant do anything about it never wakes up one day to find themselves sociable and calm and comfortable and normal around other people


and yet people get hit by cars and killed instantly out of the blue leaving grieving families, kids get cancer, people's homes fall into sinkholes, babies are randomly born into communities full of crime and drugs

its all bullshit. if we were created by a kind and just god, he became bored of us long ago, anyone who believes in god in this day and age is a fool

>>730577009
no cus if theres a god, he could probly talk to us. its ignorant to think that we just cant know....so people who don't need to hide in a major group are the real thinkers...

>>730577150
I hope there is a god though

>>730577038
People tend to talk of "knowing god", more in terms of just coming to peace with your own existence. A belief in god is a personal thing which no one can really argue. Religion is a big pile of shit though.

It's the idea that if a god existed, "he" would be unknowable, and therefore there is no reason to try and comprehend "him.

Carl sagan has a great video explaining higher dimensional creatures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0

>>730577231

>im depressed so therefore God isn't possible!!

literally every atheist ever.

>>730577233
Why would a "god" talk to us? Would you talk to ants? Why would you bother? Why is it ignorant to claim that we can't know? Because I think you'll find that it's ignorant to claim that we can.

>>730577362
>literally using literally metaphorically

>>730577362
>I'm too ignorant to admit it. God must be real!
Every religious person

>>730577342
I know what people when they say that. and that's not always what they mean. ur explaining a concept I was just talking about. not sure if ur in on the convo or not. good stuff tho.

>>730577342
>interested in watching video
>eOne UGC has blocked content in my country
>live in Canada

Dafuq?

>>730577554
Only just joined in. I'm in Astrophysics, so these posts are always quite fun to watch.

>>730577427
using metaphorically when there was no metaphor....
>being a bitter atheist with no ability to argue a point.

"If it looks like an accident or a collage of senselessness you weren't looking hard enough. I wasn't looking hard enough" - Connor Oberst

>>730577506

I'm Agnostic, you dip.

>>730577362

im very happy. ive worked hard in spite of my setbacks to have success and a happy life

but i can see the world around me for what it is, and it is not the creation of any good or just supreme being, creator or overseer

>>730577590
That sucks, you'll definitely find another one. That video is everywhere, and a really cool concept explained as simple as possible.

>>730577623
>Theology must address me personally, or else God can't be of any significance!
Every agnostic

>>730577617
>Call someone out on their post.
>Fuck up own post

*Figuratively

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>>730577390
well for one I didn't claim that we can. maybe god isn't a human and humans arnt ants. maybe if you could talk to ants there would be a point....im not god, so why would I know why it would bother? you can be as logical as a christian and say we definitely cant meet god, and il defned your right to think and say that. but to me, its anyones guess really, that's why im not wrong cus I havnt stuffed my head anally searching for the ability to be the most correct person in the argument....

>>730568214
Whether you can prove or disprove that god exists is irrelevant when you can reasonably deduce that it's either malicious or apathetic to the point that it might as well not exist. We're really better off without it, and unless we figure out how to be rid of it, being aware of the existence of god is pretty much like being trapped in a Lovecraft novel.

>>730577600
oh so u sent that dead video link that I was excited for? what u think about string theory?

>>730577725

The fuck are you on about?

>>730577928
Well, you almost were the most correct person anyway. You essentially showed that no one has any capability of understanding a god, or ever knowing it there is one. You described agnosticism really.

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>>730577777
I fucked up my post how faggot?

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Food for thought.

>>730577777
it wasn't figuratively either faggot

>>730577992
I've not spent much time in the field, but I don't really follow it. It's like modified Newtonian dynamics to explain the missing mass problem without including dark matter/energy, or some of the more out there theories. They're interesting to think about but the science is still relatively vague. But that's what everyone thought about quantum mechanics haha. You never know what may turn out to be true.

>>730578116
I fucked up my post cunt. I even corrected myself later.

>>730578145
It was more figurative and metaphorical than it was literal.

>>730578039
unjust generalizations in response to
>>730577506

Continued

>>730578359
>>730578359
>>730578359

>>730578140
Not really. The fact that single scientists believe in a god makes no difference. Science is a culmination of all of our knowledge, the individual scientist's opinions mean nothing in the large scheme.

>>730578358
i mean to this one >>730577362

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>>730578041
im not worried about being the most correct, was my main point. which makes me the most correct cus im not assuming things we DONT know. I didn't say anything that says we cant know. I explained that you thinking we are ants to god is just ur assumption. god could easily choose not to speak to us even tho we can easily speak to ants and choose not to... we could do lots of stuff god could do... ur really just assuming more meaning from my statement than I put forth... not to be insulting, but I didn't describe agnosticism, that's just the closest thing you understand. and ud rather go with that, than to just be content to not know...................hence why we are here...

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>>730578333
no it was just a different word that you don't know... u dumb faggot.....

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>>730578287
oh hahah my bad bro. I thought u meant I messed up when I made fun of u for messing up. my mistake good sir. much love.