How does /b/ score? https://8values.github.io

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This is the best position. Right?

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>>730528405

>>730528206
>socialist
>libertarian

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>>730528518
>>730528405
yes

>>730528206
Could someone explain how communism is supposed to work? I can't make sense of it.

>>730528642
I really don't know how people don't get this.

>>730528206
It's like when a Conservative is conditioned from birth to think
>left=bad
>right=good
so they don't bother learning anything more advanced than that, so when they see people who don't want to live in a ultraconservative authoritarian state run by corporations, and they think that person is a communist.
Hope that helps.

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>>730528801
It's like they don't want to own their work

>>730528645
What is with conservatives and their hard-ons for Authoritarianism?

Yeah a strong leader and strong government is good but they shouldn't hold excessive authority over their electorate or citizens.

What happened to small government?

>>730529107
I may be liberal but I'm not communist.

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t. swiss

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C O M M I E

Fuck this bread... Everyone is a filthy commie

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>>730528206

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Pretty normal

>>730529968
come a bit towards the right and you're good

>>730528405
>>730528817
you guys want to control the economy but have no government at all, that's counter-intuitive and retarded

>/b/ is libertarian
We /pol/ now?

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>>730528206
Almost the same. +2% in liberty gave me libertarian instead of liberal. I'd still call myself liberal rather than libertarian, but sure.

>>730530787
No, I want a (Good and Accountable) government that regulates the economy to protect citizens but not to impose ridiculous regulations that cripple businesses or is unfair towards them.

There is an in-between.

Like what exists now in the UK or US just with a Good government and more responsible politicians.

What do you prefer?

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>>730528206
Yet I abhor communism and socialism. What gives?

>>730530357
>bernie sanders? dat you?!?!

>>730530787
>you guys want to control the economy but have no government at all
Not him but if where, exactly, is that implied?

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COMMIES FUCK OFF

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>>730528206

Full on commie, baby. Gonna paint the moon pink and put a Lenin face on it.

>>730531324
>2017
>being jealous because he cant grow a beard like papa karl marx
>mysides.jpg

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best one here, fags

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Nothing special

Dem fucking biased as hell options.

You either believe in equality or wealth? It's like they don't believe it's possible to create value. The world isn't a big pie and everyone takes a slice. By working together you create more pie. Wealth can create equality because when there's enough pie everyone eats their fill. If you focus on dividing up what you have instead of producing more then you create artificial scarcity which leads to an elite class hoarding what little they can when people refuse to produce due to the "injustice" of not receiving their fair share

You either believe in might or peace? Since the dawn of time and forever after in the future peace will only exist BECAUSE of might. If we aren't fighting other humans we're fighting nature. Do you think there was peace when we were constantly on the run from tigers and bears? It was MIGHT that allowed us to beat the bears back into their caves and reclaim our land.

You either believe in liberty or authority? Authority is necessary to PROTECT liberty. Who's to stop someone from kidnapping you and tying you up in their basement, denying you all of your civil liberties? Oh, yeah -- THE POLICE.

You either believe in tradition or progress? It's the tradition of the scientific method (now HUNDREDS of years old) that has ENABLED progress. Sure, some traditions are bad. And one day we may develop a better scientific method. But humans live and die by traditions. Every story you've ever read or every movie you've ever watched is just a re-telling of the epic of Gilgamesh. We're all about dem fucking traditions.

They make it seem like "equality, peace, liberty, and progress" are good with their positive words and light colors, then juxtapose them with demonizing words like "wealth, might, authority, and tradition". Let's try some REAL words like "value-creation, security, protection, and discovery" so that we realize this shit isn't mutually exclusive.

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dicks

>>730531222
There is a big difference between what you value (equality, protection from government or corporate abuse, etc) and the form of government that makes it happen. You don't need to start a communist revolution to see that the working class in this country large get screwed by banks and big business

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>>730528206
I don't know how to get out of the middle, I like it here.

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here ya go, boys

>>730531324
>Be conservative
>Everyone in family of 60 and town of 300 is conservative
>Good thing we don't have any of those commies round hurr
>go to school, find out not everyone is conservative
>some are liberal and even, *gasp*
>SOCIALIST
>reeeeee people are different
>run home and go on internet hugbox where everyone agrees
>shit, more socialists are here!
>better post some memes

>>730531340
you do know that marx and lenin had a lot of text about communist revolutions being violent in nature

>pacifist

you're not close

>>730531771
I feel quite relieved then.

>>730531619
You seem like the kind of person who thinks phrases like "everything is nothing" is thought-provoking. You're very narrow-minded.

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>>730531741

>>730528645
what is wrong with you?

>>730531264
The economic "equality" and the libertarian/liberal government

>>730531619
>Do you think there was peace when we were constantly on the run from tigers and bears?
kek, go fight some bears then m8. The other 6 billion people on the earth learned how to be civilized.

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Ok

>>730531220
>I want a government that regulates the economy
>but not to impose ridiculous regulations
what's the difference from a good regulation and a bad one?
how is there an in between?

>>730531779
Have you considered forming an opinion?

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R8?

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>>730528206
>>730528405
>>730528817
>>730529833
>>730529968
>>730530357
>>730530434
>>730531172
>>730531222
>>730531340
>>730531412
>>730531567
>>730531741
>>730531892
>>730532045
>>730532101

>>730531619
You make some good points. But Authority still needs to have checks and balances to keep it from getting out of control, and to make sure that at the end of the day, if the people don't consent to the authority, they have the ability to overthrow it and start again. As Thomas Jefferson said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

And I also agree with you about the Might part, so long as that Might doesn't turn into a dick waving, pissing contest (ex. Cold War) where everyone is trying to outdo each other and prove they have the biggest Might. I don't think we should be over in other countries protecting them from their shitty govts. or whatever else. We need to worry about our country first, fuck the other ones. They are a different country for a reason, they can deal with their own problems.

I also agree that humans are shackled to a lot of traditions, but we need to grow beyond the ones that punish non-conformity and push the herd mentality. A lot of humans are not the mindless sheep they are made out to be, and they need to act like it instead of clinging to stupid traditions.

As far as the wealth inequality, coporatons don't care about paying a fair wage, they want to pay you the least that they can while working you as hard as they can, while retaining their "right" to get rid of you at any time for any reason (aka "at will" employment). I'm a big supporter of workers rights and unions, that way workers have a way to stand up to their employer, and the employer is forced to actually do something instead of getting off with "Well if you don't like, go work somewhere else.

I'll say that I'm not a communist, I do believe that you have to incentivize creation and production or people just won't bother with it. But I also don't believe in a free market were corporations can get away with anything because they are "job creators".

>>730531222
I'm guessing you favor the government protecting citizens from corporations and regulating the economy and also providing social services.

You want economic equality but do not want it to be spread by force.You're also probably an advocate of social mobility.

You value hard work too and someone's right to be wealthier than others by working harder.

Am I right?

>>730532168
I love it when right wingers pretend they're throwing us out of helicopters. No one's being killed, we're all just sitting on our ass on 4chan, except many of the leftists here are actually out and fighting for their cause.

>>730531937
Yeah, I just wanted to use that Fallout reference.

My actual political leaning is towards anarchist collectivism, but I'm not gonna do shit to actually make it happen.

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r8 my test

>>730531340
You're libertarian.
I don't think you're communist.

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Join https://discord.gg/7WF9qCE for more nudes!!!

>>730532168
heh, I'm in the top 10%. If we as a country can agree to support the poor, I'm fine with paying a little bit more tax. The top 1% don't need that money anyway.

>>730532286
Seems to about sum it up, yup.

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none of you are suited to lead a nation

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>>730532168
Nigga what

>>730532506
neither are you
>source
you are on 4chan taking a stupid quiz

>>730528593

>>730532594
when I control a united globe, you will be the first to the death camps

>>730532594
PLOT TWIST: He's Bernie Sanders, on the shitter.

>>730531220
Nigga you don't get to be in the green, go back to blue.

>>730532129
Bad regulation :
The city of Philadelphia now requires all bloggers to purchase a $300 business privilege license.

Good regulation:
You can't dump lead into a river where people live and gather food from because it negatively affects their health.

I am assuming this is what you were expecting, unless your talking about financial regulations.

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>inb4 12 years old

>>730532506
wrong, bitch. i ran a campaign from CK2 through EU4 to Vic 2 and HOI3

>>730531619
Only Sith and conservatives deal in absolutes.

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>>730528206
Anarchist reporting. Gonna steal food until grocerie stores fall and we have to grow our own.

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>>730532981

>not having at least 70% hawkish
>having anything less than 50% in wealth

>>730532887
I was talking financially, yes.

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>groups economic classes with ethnicity and gender

this is how you know this was made by a liberal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5X2BvMS4yQ

>>730533161
I don't think that's how anarchism works, dude.

>>730533161
>if i ignore capitalism, it will go away ;DDDDDDD

fucking petit-bourg faggots, man up and join a party

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Am I boring?

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Yep, exactly what I expected.

>>730533296
all regulation is good regulation

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This really reminds me of that time when I scored exactly (0,0) on the political compass. At least this is more informative.

>>730533542
Yes, yes you are.

What are some key political beliefs of yours that make you a centrist ?

>>730533542
>Am I boring?
No. You're one of the few rational humans in existence.

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I'm shit at every thing, right?

>>730532168
>liberals are marxist

must be nice being this retarded

>>730533674
>I scored exactly (0,0) on the political compass
I'm in the same boat. This is mine >>730533656

>>730533405
Well to smash the state without a war you have to gnaw at what holds it in place. Stealing food and jaywalking is a start

>>730533161
>claims to be anarchist
>supports extreme statism

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>>730528206
Read the File name

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>>730533725

>>730533737
>>730533674
>>730533656
>>730533542

Centrist bros

>>730533825
That phrase is meaningless

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okay. i'm pretty boring i guess. was expecting a little more libertarianism, but i guess my nationalism is mellowing it.

>>730533665
Alright, take everybody's money until they're just above your little poverty line. See where that gets you

>>730533825
>ruling class ideology
>redpilled

wew

>>730533537
Stealing is not ignoring capitalism. Stealing prevents the owner from selling the product while keeping you alive. A big group of people stealing shit from big stores like wallmart and other assholes is a good way to get rid of the bourgeois.

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>>730528206
Who else /natsoc/ here?

>>730533923
perfect, thanks anon

>>730533972
that's not what i'd do anon

>>730533796
Hm, yes. Then we can turn street signs upside down and move traffic cones into slightly the wrong place. Those fatcats won't know what hit 'em!

>>730533822
where do you get the idea that i support statism?

>>730533972
or better yet, make all manufacturing illegal and forcibly sterilize the entire population because muh environmentalism.

>>730533986
kek i know you're b8ing but a small part of me wants you to be a real anarkiddie somewhere

>>730533979
equality for most, and those that work hard to deserve it, I still have the opinion of Niggers, and Black people.
Black people work hard for our society, and make sure to make it a better place for it's citizens, Niggers just fuck everything up and deserve praise for it.

i ain't answering no goddam 60 questions

>>730534002
it's not /natsoc/ without socialism. you are an ultranationalist, but not a full on Nazi.

>>730534002
Uh, d'you mean you're a Nazi?

>>730534030
Don't give me a generalization then.

>>730533825
perfectly aligned SJW neo-marxist scum. go join your local antifa

>>730534180
i don't know where to start anon

do you realize private property has to be abolished for starters? do you realize "niggers" are "niggers" because of socioeconomic factors that brought them there?

>>730533675
All potilical systems and beliefs have some good (and bad) points, so I guess that equals me out to being a Centrist.

>>730534330
does giving the means of production to the workers count as a regulation anon?

>>730534236
nazis weren't socialists

>>730534099
communism is a form of statism

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>>730534456

>>730534499
communism is stateless you dumb fuck.

>>730534116
If not stealing, what do you propose. a prolatarian group that mass-murders shit until it becomes the elite?

>>730534499
but i'm not a commie you fuck.

>>730534605
don't speak for me you fuck

>>730528679
Everybody does work for eachother essentially, its a community and you all work together to make life btter for eachother. Capotolism is, how do i work for me to make my life better

>>730534496
Let me answer your question with another question, how would you enforce this means of production so that it doesn't escape the "workers"?

That shit said I'm a liberal, so it's clearly fucking retarded. Or does that mean I'm fucking retarded?

>>730534898
not replying to anyone and not posting a pic of your results makes you retarded

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>>730528206

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>>730534236
>>730534286
Socialism in it's absolute form is a cancer, and Hitler was well aware of this. Socialism and capitalism must work together in order to ensure the welfare of the people, especially in dire times.

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yea i guess so

>>730534898
Dunno, do you believe in civil liberties but still hate brown people?

>>730534496
yes they were. the means of production were taken from the people unless the people joined and submitted to the Nazi party, which was the STATE. The owners of the means of production were subservient puppets to the nation, and the state made all decisions as far as allocation of resources, pricing, etc.

>>730528645
aloha snackbar, brother

>>730534785
>Everybody does work for eachother essentially, its a community and you all work together to make life btter for eachother. Capotolism is, how do i work for me to make my life better
But how is that sustainable? Why would people bother doing anything more than the bare minimum, if that?

>>730529021
Shut up ya fucking commie.

>>730534623
the only way to advance the interests of the proletariat with the ultimate goal of seizing power from the bourgeoisie is through a dedicated political organization that will guide the proletariat in it's struggle. the average joe that votes for trump/hillary and the average ahmed that wants his wives to wear burqas won't drop his false consciousness because you like roleplaying communism in your little squats.

if you want to make a meal to eat you get up, prep the ingredients and cook it. you don't sit there pretending to be eating

http://www.marxist.com/reply-to-black-flag-marxism-or-anarchism-an-open-letter-to-thinking-anarchists-part-1.htm

>>730534898
they mean classical liberalism when the quiz says how much authority you want similar to libertarianism

>>730535002
Not sure how you can be a socialist and a genocidal racist, but whatever works.

>>730529107
Literally everyone who isn't in the green square thinks that the green square is inhabited solely by brainlet crybabby's; perhaps excluding the red square, who see you as slaves to establish their own goals.

>>730535097
kek

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>>730534883
through a state of course, until the notion of exploitation is wiped out of the collective's ideology pool like slavery has been wiped today in most of the world. after that communal ownership by the workers wouldn't need to be enforced

>>730535091
state making decisions doesn't equal socialism. socialism means the means of production are under control of the workers

>>730535002
yes, and the Weimar republic represented very dire times, which is why the government under the nazis seized the means of production. i'm not saying that it wasn't called for, but what i'm saying is that under the Nazi party, the German economy did swing massively towards socialism.

>>730535340
how dense to you have to be to think that someone can't be evil just because they share your economic ideology? by the way, you do know that Stalin killed far more Jews than Hitler did, right? are you going to tell me that Stalin wasn't a communist or a socialist either?

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>>730528206
Turns out im a libtard

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>>730535340
>racism
lol the meme of the 20th century. Nationalism is merely looking out for your own people above all others, it doesn't mean that you hate other races, but that you will do all that you can to sustain your own heritage and culture.

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Yep

>>730535147
That's the problem. Communism works and is good in theory. But as soon as it's put into practice, to many will refrain from work at all and reap from their peers. Which is essentially the problem with communism/socialism

>>730535564
>you do know that Stalin killed far more Jews than Hitler did, right?

that's simply not true. stalin never prosecuted jews or any ethnicity, he killed kulaks and political opponents. to be precise, 750.000 of them

>>730535171
>a dedicated political organization that will guide the proletariat

No thanks Lenin, me and my friends are gonna guide ourselves. Average joe can stay a wage slave if he wants to. I'll just fuck his shit if him and the cops try to kick me or my friends out of my not so legal farm

>>730531993
You can have freedom/choice whilst still having a more balanced society that doesn't have a gigantic gap in wealth.

A strong government would need to be there to accomplish that, but it doesn't need to be authoritarian....

>>730535784
except this is not true and something you were made to believe in school

socialism doesn't mean people don't have to work. it means workers reap all the labor value they produce instead of being exploited. there is no "refraining from work" under socialism, everyone works. unemployment in the soviet union was 0%

>>730535564
Calling yourself a communist (or socialist, or fascist, whatever) doesn't mean your actions actuallly represent those values.

>>730535502
in order for the "workers" to own and run any form of industry, they must first unite and form some sort of governing body. in the case of a socialism, this means the state. the workers would control the means of production by taking control of the state itself. you can't divorce socialism from statism, and statism at that magnitude leaves no protection from tyranny.

>>730535890
so you're admitting you're a petit-bourg kiddo who doesn't really want to change anything, just larp communism with his friends?

glad to know we're on the same page

>>730535985
dear god, he's actually doing it. he's actually claiming that Stalin wasn't a communist. why? because he was a mass murderer? was pol pot not a communist? what about mao?

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>>730535787
>when your argument devolves into no you're wrong, this completely implausible and unjustified thing that I pulled out of my ass happened instead of the historical event that all our records point to

>>730532137
I have, it turned out to be really biased so I got rid of it.
I do like capitalism, tho it has it's own problems, and think every other economic system is more abusive because they don't allow the individual to advance their own goals. I just see most people not liking it because, in capitalism, there are winners and losers while the others seem like to try to make everyone out to be an equal, which doesn't sound bad but we're not all equal. Some of us are just dumb and should be let to fail until they stop being so stupid.

>>730535687
>Attempting to wipe out an entire people
>Just looking out for numero uno!

>>730535987
did you think im an anarkiddie? I'm a marxist anon, of course a proletariat must seize the state

>statism at that magnitude leaves no protection from tyranny

except from the fact that all positions within the party and the soviets would be democratically assigned

>>730536248
>implying I personally caused the genocide
>implying hitler personally ordered the holocaust

>>730536194
except that's literally not true kek

>According to the declassified Soviet archives, during 1937 and 1938, the NKVD detained 1,548,366 persons, of whom 681,692 were shot – an average of 1,000 executions a day

this is from liberalpedia too.

>>730536174
All fascists.

>>730536071
>petit-bourg

Dude come on. I steal food because i can't afford it and a farm can't be big enoug to sustain a group in a city. Don't fucking call me a petit-bourh i own fucking nothing

>>730535956
I imply that you mean strong government is big government, big government by definition has a lot of power, subsequently making it authoritarian

>>730536601
keep projecting

>>730536636
ye lumpenprole describes you better

>>730536254
a party leader controls the means of production, the military, and the media. why in the hell would he give up power. this state you've dreamed up wouldn't have elections. it would have coups, with each successor entrenching himself in power by any means necessary.

>>730536486
>backpedalling intensifies

>>730536174
>was pol pot not a communist?

no he wasn't. it was the communists who got rid of pot pol in the first place

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>>730536561
>according to soviet archives, the soviets didn't kill 'that' many people
the memes have become too strong

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so much disgusting liberals in this thread, im disappointed

>>730536814
>wait, he explained his position instead of spewing memes about how the holocaust didn't happen
>what are we going to do?
>I know, we'll just keep on memeing, call him a chicken or something!
It'd be nice to have a serious discussion instead of a point-scoring match, but you aren't capable of that, are you?

>>730536742
Hey thats kinda true. What are you and your commie friends do about it. Send me to gulag for my own good?

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I knew I liked Trump for a reason .....

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I dont have many supporters when it comes to familial politics

>>730536824
he was a communist leader who's followers turned on him. that doesn't mean he wasn't a communist.

>>730528206
interesting questions that were worded in a way to achieve desired results.

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Dirty liberal reporting in

>>730537249
whoa. i think you might be a feudalist. neat.

>>730537038
Okay, okay, fair enough.

I didn't imply that you, personally, somehow 'did' the holocaust, nor does it really matter whether Hitler himself said 'Yes, gas those Jews' (although I find it hard to believe that he was ignorant, in any way, of what was happening).

The point is there's a big difference between upholding your cultural traditions and societal structure, and actively trying to destroy other peoples' because you feel threatened by them.

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I will form the Grey party, and our goal will be to achieve perfect balance

To all the commies:

If the workers own the means of production, are those who are working the owners?
If so, is there law enforcement and prison guards? If there are, do they own their respective places of work? Ya'know, because the workers own the means of production and the means of producing(maintaining) a semi civilized society have to do with law enforcement offices and prisons and the respective equipment that goes with the job.
If they do, what stops a group of law enforcement/prison guard workers from becoming tyrannical?
Obliviously, what motivates the workers to work?
How is work schedule?
How/when is something decided as needed, so it can be scheduled?
How do we make sure the work gets done?

If I'm to become a communist, I'll need some answers first. I just don't want to have blind faith about the communist utopia.

>>730537368
>>730537382
nice internal inconsistencies there, buds.
"the government should give me shit, but other than that it should just fuck off"
the state isn't a replacement for your parents.

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>>730532286
>>730531222

That's pretty much my position.

But, in the nearish future things are gonna change quick as automation and AI advancement makes most of us obsolete as "drones". If we're lucky, we could see a new renaissance of art, music, skills and old trades as "work" largely disappears.

I expect it'll happen before were ready, economically. I'm old, so I'm fucked anyway.

But you lads should be asking "What will we do when there are only a handful of jobs?" In some sense, I suspect that AW YouTube and Twitch culture is the beginnings of it... An economy based on Likes. Hipsterism as well, as the craft of beer and beards and baking is rekindled, often for profit as a "specialty" item. Doing "what you love."

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Personally, I believe that a balance between values and compromise is the right path. I'm clearly biased, but I respect other's opinions.

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where are my libertarian pals?

>>730538181
been in this thread since the beginning

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>>730537417
Hitler, right from the start, never intended to kill all the jews, despite all the horrible shit they put the Germans through from pre-1914 to 1933. I myself am still unsure whether or not the Holocaust was real or not (there is far more evidence to support that it is, but much of that could be fabricated, and there is a surprising amount of legitimate evidence to support that it was not real, or not at the scale that is presented today), but I am certain that for Germany, or any western nation to prosper and reach it's full potential, it must be a nation solely composed of it's own stock. Nobody expects Japan, or China, or Egypt, or Israel, or nearly any nation that is not white to open it's border to foreign races, so it is unjust for whites to do so.

>>730538181
well done lad. respect

>>730531567
I like you

>>730536756
>a party leader controls the means of production

no he doesn't. the party shares control of the state with the congress of soviets. the party base elects a central committee, which takes major decisions during party congresses. the central committee elects the politburo as a decision making body between the congresses. the politburo in turn elects a general secretary.

the congress of soviets also elects the council of people's commisars that acts as the executive branch of the government

>the military, and the media

again anon, it's the central committee that controls them and not the general secretary

>>730532137
People in the middle are the smartest. They listen to both sides and can actually compromise, unlike many people on the internet.

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>>730538430
All those Asian/Mid-East countries you mentioned have huge immigrant populations. Just because you can't tell the difference between them doesn't mean there isn't a border crossing or a race difference.

>>730533675
The ability to compromise,

>>730538620
What is to stop them from taking away rights from the people or just killing anyone who questions them?

>>730536838
>declassified
very funny Mr. Kulak

>>730538430
1. What 'horrible shit' did the Jews do to the German people that could possibly justify killing them in their millions?

2. The Holocaust definitely happened, man. I don't know how Holocaust denial gained so much traction these past couple of years (along with flat earth, for some reason) but the evidence is overwhelming.

3. Everybody expects non-white nations to open their borders to us, and they do. Some of my (white) friends live in Japan, South America and Morocco. Some of my non-white friends were born in my country. Many white countries weren't even white originally (the U.S. being a huge example).

>>730538620
that's still way too much power in way too few hands.

>>730536838
>claims i'm denying facts from historical archives

>denies facts from historical archives

:^)

>>730537138
im neutral towards anarchists

>>730537260
>he was a communist leader who's followers turned on him. that doesn't mean he wasn't a communist.

he wasn't a communist since he actively mass murdered the urban proletariat

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>>730528206

pretty much exactly where i figured.

>>730528679
A literal god needs to be dictator for communism to even sorta work

>>730539343
communists have no problem killing the proletariat if the proletariat resists communism.

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>>730538879
Looking at this map (List of states by percentage of immigrant population), it seems that you are wrong. Most of Asia's mammoth population are national's, whilst the west (Europe, North America, and Australia) have by far the largest immigrant populations. The only place were this trend is bumped is in states bordering countries at war (for obvious reasons), and the richer Middle East countries (which still maintain the supremacy of their own race by a strict hierarchy.

>>730538962
who's "them"? the party? what rights are you talking about? be a bit more specific

>>730539168
how is the democratically elected central committee (aprox 200 people elected by local party bases throughout the whole country) and a congress of representatives of worker's councils from the whole country "too few hands"? It doesn't get any more direct

>>730539524
either that or we'd have to reach a technological era with absolutely no scarcity and robot slave labor.

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>>730538181
mah nigga

i don't know how i never heard about this

>>730539718
capitalism is much more direct. it puts the means of production directly into the hands of the people.

>>730539560
the proletariat doesn't resist socialism since they are the ones gaining power. class traitors that side with the bourgeoisie against their fellow workers should be shot

but again, pol pot killed urban proletarians for no reason other than some agrarian utopian fantasy. they weren't class traitors

>>730538430
Except that in this global village, it IS expected. We no longer live in periods of isolationism. Countries must be able to accept new people in order to be great. Look at the USA. It is called the melting pot of the world for a reason. We are the worlds biggest and longest lasting superpower. In order for a country to prosper, influxes of new ideas and people must occur. Look at what happens to countries with a lot of inter-family marriage. The Holocaust DID happen, and on the scale that it did.

Also,

>Japan

The USA brought naval fleets and ORDERED Japan to open its borders to trade.

>China

They open up their country a lot. It is a major tourist country and many people from different countries are allowed in.

>Egypt

They've always had open borders, whether it be with Arabia or South Europa. The only problems they have had in modern times is that sickness from other African countries poses a large risk.

>>730539967
behold the communist in it's truest form.
"anyone who disagrees with my idea, even if they are the people my idea is meant to help, should be executed without mercy."

>>730533161
Better start stockpiling guns and ammunition

>>730539714
The thing about the USA, Canada, and Australia is that technically everyone there can be considered an immigrant (besides the natives). Can you cite the source for this graph or give me a link so I can read more?

I got pretty extreme libertarian socialism.

>>730539903
capitalism puts the means of production in the hands of the bourgeoisie, while workers have to sell their labor to the bourgeoisie for sustenance and be exploited by them. there is no reason for anyone to own the means of production and sit on billions he could not possibly spend in 1000 lifetimes while exploiting the workers. this is the reason capitalism will inevitably fail, since wealth keeps accumulating at the hands of the bourgeoisie and they keep lending it with interest back to the government through cycles of austerity and stimulus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P97r9Ci5Kg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hYKgyUU024

>>730539718
the congress of soviets, the central committee, anyone taking part in running the government.

IDK, freedom of speech, the right to live without the government killing you, the right to fuck up, the right to own guns, the right to the pursuit of happiness, rights in general.
Why does it matter that I specify which rights?
Why avoid the question "what's to stop them from killing you for questioning them"?

>>730540271
Actually, I think you mean Authoritarianism. I am a Marxist, and I believe in a voice for all, and I believe that everyone should be able to voice their opinion. Don't take an opinion on a ideology over the actions/words of a few.

>>730528206
I don't like quizzes like these because my irl answer to most of them is "it is dependent upon the situation" but the only answers on internet quizzes are yes, no, and neutral.

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gommunism :DD

>>730540271
if i want to stop a bear from killing my 10 dogs, and another dog comes a starts aiding the bear, i will not hesitate to defend my dogs because the second animal is also a dog. a proletarian that works against his fellow workers, against the common good for his own profit should of course be ostracized. i don't know what your definition of betrayal is, but for example if someone joins a religious militia to combat the worker's state they shouldn't be shown any mercy ye

>>730539967
a laborer who is a capitalist isn't a "class traitor" because class isn't a permanent status. in a free market system an individual is free to climb up or fall down the ladder.

>>730540726
>communist
>libertarian
pick one

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Hurr durr another social libertarian

>>730540932
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Marxism

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>>730528206

>>730540932
>being this wrong

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>>730528206
Lel these results just go to show why exactly /b/ is just a bunch of pedophiles and losers.

>>730541418
>>730541208
okay fine i guess it technically exists in hippy communes, but it's totally unsustainable for any general population

>>730528645
Are you Isis?

>>730540421
>capitalism puts the means of production in the hands of the bourgeoisie, while workers have to sell their labor to the bourgeoisie for sustenance and be exploited by them. there is no reason for anyone to own the means of production and sit on billions he could not possibly spend in 1000 lifetimes while exploiting the workers. this is the reason capitalism will inevitably fail, since wealth keeps accumulating at the hands of the bourgeoisie and they keep lending it with interest back to the government through cycles of austerity and stimulus

capitalism puts the means of production in the hands of those who have strategically invested their resources, while workers have not. The workers were probably busy drinking beer, smoking, fucking or pissing their money away.

The communists exploit the workers by manipulating them with false clams of abuse.

The only reason for anyone to own the means of production is to manage it, earn more money and not squander it.

Those who have billions have either invested their resources wisely, gotten lucky via their heritage, or made something absolutely amazing.

The reason capitalism will inevitably fail is because weak minded people do not know how to think for themselves and accept others rhetoric as fact without question, that or it eats itself.

>>730537547
I want some fucking answers.

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Rate, fags.

>>730541599
where's the bar that displays pedophilia level?

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>>730539103
1. To put it at it's most simple, what is happening to most western nations today, but on a far more revised and grand scale. German families were starving due to the hyper-inflation and later the depression. Degenerate acts like prostitution spread syphilis as well as a host of other sexual diseases throughout the German working class, all of which was recognized by the openly Marxist government, but ultimately completely ignored. Unemployment reached disgustingly high levels, as high as 7 or 8 million before the election of Hitler. And all this was happening while the upper classes danced to the tune of Jewish sponsored art and culture, gleefully ignorant of the common man's plight. I'm not so eloquent a speaker, but if you want the full story, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9D_z2xS4GI

2. I'm not so sure. Everything else I though I knew about WW2 has been so thoroughly obscured, that I am very suspicious of the holocaust.

3.Saying the U.S. wasn't always white is ridiculous. The U.S.A was founded BY white people. If you meant North America wasn't originally white, you would be correct, but that is irrelevant, because North America isn't a nation, but the U.S.A is. And as a nation, it has an obligation to protect and ensure the welfare of it's own people.

>>730540386
see
point three of >>730541733

>>730531220
What you just described still places you in the purple.

>>730541733
re: point 3
amen.

>>730532887
making bloggers have to purchase a license before they can blog actually sounds like a good idea too

>>730540534
what stops them is the fact that they're democratically elected and no 1 person holds absolute power.

>Why does it matter that I specify which rights?

because the notion of "muh rights" is deeply neoliberal. let's see what you wrote

>freedom of speech

you are always free to speak, as long as what you say and do doesn't threaten the status quo. during the cold war, you'd be prosecuted in the us for being a communist. before the cold war, unions like the iww were heavily prosecuted for fighting for worker's rights.

do you have freedom of speech in the us in 2017? of course, you have the freedom to discuss which brand (conservative or social) liberalism you love more and argue about idiotic idpol "issues" like muh trans bathrooms. what if people started talking about class struggle though? what if a serious vanguard party managed to get some 10% in the elections? what do you think would happen to your freedom of speech then anon? reversing the situation as well, do you think after the defeat of capitalism socialist propaganda would be necessary? it's just a tool to achieve victory, not an aspect of the end-goal.

>the right to live without the government killing you, the right to fuck up

getting kinda vague here

>the right to own guns

the proletariat should be always armed

>the right to the pursuit of happiness
this sentence of nonsensical neoliberal

jargon

>Why avoid the question "what's to stop them from killing you for questioning them"?

questioning them in what form? writing articles in a newspaper? i already explained that separate bodies comprised different branches of government and that all the positions are democratically elected either by the party base (aka everyone in the party, aka everyone interested in politics) or by the workers councils throughout the country (aka everyone).

in this hypothetical scenario of yours, have all these branches of government united to do what exactly, be 1000 mini-dictators?

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>>730528206

Anarchists are the plague of the earth. Civilization is a product of hard work and persistence, not a by-product of human nature. Look at other countries where this is not sought after by the people, they're a mess.

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I'm from canada

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Good :)

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>>730540165
Is it not terrifying to envision a world devoid of all culture, of all unique art? Look at the world today, look at the U.S.A. It is devoid of all spirit, and it is heartlessly disregarding morality. It is no wonder that depression has ceased the great masses of people in the west, when no spirit is carried throughout the generations. Indeed, the only places which seem to have any kind of cultural vibrancy and spiritual worth, are homogeneous societies such as Japan and China, which have (as demonstrated in the map on >>730539714) largely maintained their national stock as the master's of their own country. If you add to many ingredients to a melting pot, than all you get is a bland mush.

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>>730528206

>>730540386
you can say that about every person outside of Africa too though

>>730541801
SAying that the USA government should have an obligation to protect white citizens only gives more points for SJW's to carrect you on. If you are going to judge people for the amount of melanin in their skin or what part of the globe they came from you might as well also judge them on whether or not they have cleft chins, widows peaks, or curly hair. Instead, judge someone on their values to society and intelligence.

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I guess I'm a Libtard? Wasn't expecting that.

>>730541832
Progressiveness is 40 times better than traditionalism.

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>>730543165
But I am not discriminating based on melanin alone, friend. I AM judging based on intelligence.

>>730540845
>class isn't a permanent status

it is for the majority of the workforce. the 1 in 10 million people who will manage to go from poor to i-dictate-national-policy rich isn't by any means the rule.

>in a free market system an individual is free to climb up or fall down the ladder

so sweatshop workers in india are free to become oil tycoons? man someone must tell them fast cause they sure are wasting their lives working for 1$ a day

>>730541656
>capitalism puts the means of production in the hands of those who have strategically invested their resources, while workers have not. The workers were probably busy drinking beer, smoking, fucking or pissing their money away.

what a dumb uneducated opinion. the capitalist class emerged from wealthy merchants during feudal times, and their wealth is hereditary. modern capitalists build their wealth by exploiting their workers, and the worker cannot do anything about it because of the threat of state violence. the worker generates labor value and is given only fractions of it, while the capitalist keeps the surplus labor value for himself. and since money dictates policy and ideology, the capitalist promotes policy that ideology that benefit him and his fellow capitalists.

saying that workers are poor because they are lazy and capitalists are rich because they worked hard is literally what the capitalists have taught you to believe, a neoliberal fantasy. no one works hard enough to have a net worth equal to a small country's gdp, having built it on stolen surplus value

>>730542438
anarchists are not adverse to hard work and persistence. they are adverse to regulation and domination which stifle the progress of mankind. anarchy means no government, but it doesn't mean a lack of society or civilization. an anarchist society would still have roads and utilities, but they would be controlled by the market and not subject to an artificial monopoly

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Meh.

>>730543428
stop distinguishing between workers and capitalists. most workers are also capitalists.

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where are my authoritarian brothers at?

>>730544101
see feudalist >>730537249

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>>730537547
>If the workers own the means of production, are those who are working the owners?

no, ownership of all means of production is collective.

>If so, is there law enforcement and prison guards? If there are, do they own their respective places of work? Ya'know, because the workers own the means of production and the means of producing(maintaining) a semi civilized society have to do with law enforcement offices and prisons and the respective equipment that goes with the job.

the only prison that could be considered means of production would be a work camp, but again the work done there is owned collectively. if the prisoners of a work camp build a road, it's going to be public infrastructure. the guards cannot put a toll in it and claim the prisoner's surplus labor value for their own

>If they do, what stops a group of law enforcement/prison guard workers from becoming tyrannical?

against who? the prisoners? there are hierarchical bodies of management of course

>Obliviously, what motivates the workers to work?

there is no unemployment under socialism, everyone works to generate value for the collective. do you honestly believe a worker will be less productive when he has a secure job and future and is not being exploited?

>How is work schedule?
>How/when is something decided as needed, so it can be scheduled?
>How do we make sure the work gets done?


worker's committees. if john slacks during work, his fellow workers decide to reduce his salary based on what he's currently producing. if he doesn't want to work at all, he gets none of the communal privileges like free housing/food etc. Neetbux isn't a thing in socialism

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You know how I can tell a leftist made this? I set all the values to 0 and got pic related.

If they were doing it without ideology pushing all the bars would be over to the same side.

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>>730543968
by capitalists i mean owners of capital, the bourgeoisie. don't argue semantics pls

>>730542393
>what stops them is the fact that they're democratically elected and no 1 person holds absolute power.
You don't need to hold absolute power to be able to influence people, namely the military or those with guns, to act in your interest and against those electing you. All it takes to end democracy is people not being as vigilant, that and cunning.

>you are always free to speak, as long as what you say and do doesn't threaten the status quo.
What of the political dissonance that were killed during the cold war?

>during the cold war, you'd be prosecuted in the us for being a communist.
So you were prosecuted for trying to undermine the government, I never said anything as foolish as 'merica is perfect. What was the outcome of the prosecution?

>this sentence of nonsensical neoliberal [jargon]
Why dismiss the question? Further, so what if it's neoliberal? What does that matter?

>writing articles in a newspaper?
What's to stop journalist from acting as a propaganda arm of the government, misleading the people and manipulating them into believing candidate X is the person who will uphold your right to a fair democratic election/government/etc

>i already explained that separate bodies comprised different branches of government and that all the positions are democratically elected either by the party base (aka everyone in the party, aka everyone interested in [power]) or by the workers councils throughout the country
Who's to say that the people electing won't be tricked, like to a degree Americans today? Who's to say that those different separate bodies won't collude to undermine a democratic government and fuck over the people? Who's to say that the workers will be able to maintain their strength against a tyrannical, oppressive government?

>the capitalist class emerged from wealthy merchants during feudal times, and their wealth is hereditary.
Oh fucking really? What about facebook? What about google? What about EVERY TECH GIANT?

cont next post

>>730544832
>there is no unemployment under socialism
why not. you didn't answer that question. what motivates the workers to work? if they refuse to work, does the state threaten them with violence? if so, isn't their labor slavery and therefore exploitation?

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Why are ethnicity, gender and economic class bundled together?

>>730544978
0 represents a certain result. i can assure you whoever made this was a liberal

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>>730545274
and this is all 100s

again all the bars should be over at the same side

>>730544978
>>730545274
>>730545490
Loaded questions would prove it, but it tries to be unbiased

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>>730545490
>libertarian communism

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Sounds about right.

>>730545106
>modern capitalists build their wealth by exploiting their workers, and the worker cannot do anything about it because of the threat of state violence.
Where's the evidence of this? Where's the evidence that tech giants threaten their employees with state violence if they don't slang code?

>the worker generates labor value and is given only fractions of it
Do you have any idea of what it takes to run a business? If not, then you have no idea why the workers only get a "fraction" of the profit generated.

>capitalist keeps the surplus labor value for [themself]
lets not be sexist here, kek
to a degree, I can agree with this sentiment tho it's still warranted. Who knows when something bad will happen and you need to pay out the ass to fix it.

>>730544832
>ownership of all means of production is collective
What purpose does anyone have to better anything for themselves, and hopefully others?
If it's all collective, does that mean that everyone is forced to live together?

cont next post

>>730528206
if you look at the code there's no rationalization for any of the question weights, this site is just a long horoscope.

>>730545106
>You don't need to hold absolute power to be able to influence people, namely the military or those with guns, to act in your interest and against those electing you. All it takes to end democracy is people not being as vigilant, that and cunning.

so you're talking about a military coup? no one person can earn so much influence and remain hidden while doing so anon, like i said people get elected with terms. as for a military coup, you must make sure that the people rising through the ranks are genuine revolutionaries and not opportunists. the danger of a military coup however is present in any conceivable societal system, even anarchist territories had military defense units that could usurp power at any time.

>What of the political dissonance that were killed during the cold war?

examples? wasn't the same done in the us to communists? the difference of course being that anti-communists were against the common interests of the proletariat

>>730545106
>So you were prosecuted for trying to undermine the government, I never said anything as foolish as 'merica is perfect. What was the outcome of the prosecution?

you tell me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

let's ask martin luther king what happened when he started talking class politics.

the only free speech you have anon is one that doesn't threaten the capitalist status quo.

>Why dismiss the question?
because of it's nonsensical nature. if i ask you to define the pursuit of happiness right now, you wouldn't be able to give me a definition. happiness isn't some permanent state of being, but rather a reaction to a pleasant event. if you give me a less nonsensical vague definition of what you meant, i'll give you an answer

cont

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Do i win

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>>730546557
>purple and green without a barrier inbetween
fuck you

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>>730531172

oh shit waddap?

>>730545106
>What's to stop journalist from acting as a propaganda arm of the government, misleading the people and manipulating them into believing candidate X is the person who will uphold your right to a fair democratic election/government

the populus doesn't elect a specific head of state with absolute authority, but a member of a council that's also a member of a local council.

the question is, what would motivate a journalist to deceive the populus in favor of a specific politician? money? if he lived comfortably doing what he loves, why would he risk his career?

you start all these questions with "whats to stop them", while not being able to provide an answer to the question "whats to motivate them".

>Who's to say that the people electing won't be tricked, like to a degree Americans today? Who's to say that those different separate bodies won't collude to undermine a democratic government and fuck over the people?

it would be very hard for a group of thousands of electable officials on terms to stage a coup without anyone learning about it. you assume that what, every governing body will go corrupt at once, stage a conspiracy between government and military that no one else within the party will know, and usurp power to become what, 1000 mini dictators? has this thing you're describing ever happened anywhere?

>Oh fucking really? What about facebook? What about google? What about EVERY TECH GIANT?

and what percentage of the global proletariat do these people constitute? you look a the 300-1000 (random number) proles that managed to become capitalists and ignore the rest of the world's billions that didn't? this means class fluidity? 1000 in 7 billion?

>>730545180
>you didn't answer that question. what motivates the workers to work? if they refuse to work, does the state threaten them with violence?

i did answer your question. if they don't work, they don't get a salary or a home/car etc. Then they have to either work, starve, or resort to theft.

>>730545217
because the test is made by a liberal

>>730544832
>the only prison that could be considered means of production would be a work camp, but again the work done there is owned collectively.
No, by means of production, I'm referring to the ability to keep civil peace or reform criminals, it has nothing to do with work camps.

>the guards cannot put a toll in it and claim the prisoner's surplus labor value for their own
Unless the guards, law enforcement, and military are all working together.

>against who? the prisoners? there are hierarchical bodies of management of course
The citizens and prisoners you dolt. Further, what stops the management bodies from either misinforming the higher ups or acting on direct orders from the higher ups, who have become tyrannical.

>do you honestly believe a worker will be less productive when he has a secure job and future and is not being exploited
yes, because the workers have a secure job and the most "bad" that will come from it is a pay cut, so what I still get money and free perks.

>his fellow workers decide to reduce his salary based on what he's currently producing
Sweet, what reason do I have to do more than the bare minimum, or less, if I get money regardless?

>worker's committees
Do these rotate? If so, how will people be able to keep up with a complex system of billions of people? If they don't, why is it not exploitation? All the worker's committees have to do is manage work, which sounds like a easy job.

>>730546358
>the only free speech you have anon is one that doesn't threaten the capitalist status quo.
Really? What about what you're doing? You're threating the capitalist status quo, is that happening to you?

>define the pursuit of happiness
Being able to choose what I will be able to do to try to make me happy. Be it either becoming a porn star, a rocket scientist, a carpenter, the president, a manager, a pot farmer, what have you. See workers committee for why it's not incomparable.

cont, maybe I'm getting bored and I ain't that bright

>>730548485
I will say, thanks for answering some of my questions.

File: the_truth.png (95KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 800x600px

get back to work commies, you will never own shit

File: 6iAievT.jpg (23KB, 449x271px) Image search: [Google]

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>>730539425
>>730550002
Jesus we're the only real libertarians in this thread

>>730541673
U gay

>>730548485
Completely forgot, IIRC, communism is the only other system that's been throughly thought out.

Tho I do have one question that may be difficult to answer: during the rise to the communist utopia, what reason is there for the dictator to concede power to the workers? Assuming that it's brought in under a dictatorship, ofc.

>>730551224
Oh, and the alternative if there's no dictatorship, how will the communist utopia be brought in?

>>730548485
i wanna answer to all of this but i really have to go to bed. ill give some last short answers

>Further, what stops the management bodies from either misinforming the higher ups or acting on direct orders from the higher ups, who have become tyrannical

if a person or a group of people is corrupt, they will be investigated and replaced. unless you're talking about some spontaneous mass corruption of all governing bodies like the anon above, something that has never historically happened

>yes, because the workers have a secure job and the most "bad" that will come from it is a pay cut, so what I still get money and free perks.

you assume people do their jobs simply to survive, without taking into consideration that most jobs that require creativity are also done by people that enjoy them. you also think the stress of financial insecurity somehow boosts productivity, when in fact the opposite has been proven many times. google that spanish company that's communally owned, it's a good example of what i'm talking about.

don't confuse any of this with people refusing to work. if they refuse to work, they don't get paid

>Sweet, what reason do I have to do more than the bare minimum, or less, if I get money regardless?

no reason at all. but depending on the needs of the production unit, that "bare minimum" will be set accordingly. do you think this is a bad thing though? do you think a factory worker shouldn't be able to make end's meet? is he not entitled to his labors value?

>You're threating the capitalist status quo, is that happening to you?

i'm not threatening the status quo by talking to you. i have however endured state violence during union protests, i've been expelled from school for stating my opinion too.

>Being able to choose what I will be able to do to try to make me happy

so living a fulfilling life? how do you think you have that right in the us for example, where attending university is only for the wealthy? cont

>>730552192
Naw, it's all good m8. You've done more than most but it's an uphill battle because I like capitalism the most.
Thanks tho

>>730548485
cont

in a socialist country, education is free. anyone can choose to pursue absolutely any career they wish with not only free education, but also guaranteed employment.

>>730551994
a vanguard party will have to organize the workers and overthrow the bourgeoisie to create a worker's state. this stage is called socialism, where a vanguard party (the communist party) safeguards the interest of the proletariat like the neoliberal parties safeguard the interest of the bourgeoisie today.

to go from socialism to communism, a few things have to occur. for one, socialism has to achieve global victory against the bourgeoisie. after that, generations must pass so that notions like private property of the means of production become a relic of past oppression like slavery is today. only then will a vanguard party and state no longer be needed

>>730552496
you sound like the kind of person who isn't dogmatic about his beliefs. i'd suggest you read some basic intro lit on marxism like "why marx was right" by terry eagleton. another useful thing might be to read some marxist analysis of current events, you'll realize how it makes a lot more sense than what the neoliberal establishment feeds you

cheers mate