is nazi left or right wing

>>728179838
do you not know or are you just asking?
>they were right wing as fuck

>>728179838
is this bait

>>728179838
It's complicated.

They are economically leftists in the classical sense, even more keynesian than the jeynesian states, but wanted to interfere in the private sphere like the right wing does.

Meaning that they didn't wanted many liberties.

>>728179838
economic: right
cultural: left
social/political: right

>>728180043
jon snow

>>728180470
Phillip Cuckington
>thats you

His party was of the National Socialist Workers Party.

He was a leftist that was so far to the left, people mistake his policies as right-wing.

>>728180416
>economic right
My ass, Hitler nationalizing welfare programs and voicing disdain for Capitalism is left.

>>728179838
They called them selfs "the third way"

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They were a happy medium

>>728179838
Left-wing economics, right-wing ideology. People only focus on their ideology though.

>>728180267
Economically they're centrists, definitely not hardline Keynesian. The extent of their interference was "gently" pushing the private sector to serve the public good above solely profit making. It's "socialism" in the same way fascist economics is "corporatism". Both essentially make corporations subservient to the state, but they don't control the economy in any way.

>>728179838
Economically centrist, socially far-right.

>>728180589
Actually, welfare programs were just getting started. they were born in the afterwar of ww1.
The system was to only workers, should provide for their own welfare, and in the eventually economical grow based on right perpective of economics, welfare would not be need it.

>>728180765
Overly simplified but this gets to the point.

>>728180887
>>728180765
People keep calling it "left wing economics" because it's not a complete free market. It's not Marxist socialism because it has socialism in the name, just as fascism isn't corporatism as we know it just because it uses the label.

>>728180887
It's because we'd be here all day analyzing their political stance for one post.

>>728179838
Neither technically as they are neither classical right (monarchists) nor are they left (classical liberal), they defy such a simplistic label.

>>728181022
It doesn't have to be Marxist to be Socialist, and Fascists were economic Syndicalists.

How socialist were they? I know this is literally the OP question, but if hitler had succeeded he would've had an ethnically homogeneous population that was extremely nationalistic, which seems like the only scenario where socialism could survive.

>>728181165
Volkisch Socialism had nothing in common with Marxist Socialism fam. Look up what Hitler defined "socialism" as, it was just a label, didn't mean he adhered to socialism as we know it.

And again, you can use whatever label you want, fascism has been called corporatism and syndicalism; bottom line is the state used its power to ensure cooperation between corporations and employees. People get too confused over labels.

You normies don't understand that Goverment can onlly be LEFT or RIGHT!!! IT'S RED VS BLUE MOTHERFUCKERS. GET WITH THE TIMES YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE

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>>728181213
USSR was homogeneous and nationalistic, socialism still failed there.

>>728180799
That's before the war, after the war they seized the means of production and this change a lot, but that doesn't count cause war and sheit.

>>728179838
>>Yes...

>>728181213
They didn't follow marxist socialism but rather established their own form of Socialism like the North Koreans. They're state socialists who ran a state controlled market and had an emphasis on welfare, which is pretty leftist, but not as much as the North Koreans or the Soviets.

>>728181500
Lots of shit was nationalized in every nation during wartime, fucking idiot.

>>728181397
Well, sort of. A large portion of them would have rather not been in the USSR, i.e. The Berlin Wall. You need a nation full of willing devoted socialists

>>728181311
I already said National Socialism isn't Marxist Socialism.

>>728181681
This, we also can't forget Makhnovia (Anarcho Communist territory that existed in the USSR)

>>728181681
That's sort of what I referenced when I said it didn't work. People wanting to get out is a product of socialism. During WW2 everybody was incredibly nationalistic and shit, after the wartime high died people realized how fucked shit was

>>728181853
I am completely ignorant of what this is please school me. Also what is anarcho communism? I understand ancapism, I understand conservatism, but I don't really see how communism works without a state, it seems kindof essential to have someone collecting product and distributing it

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Hitler told a confidant: "There is no license any more, no private sphere where the individual belongs to himself. That is socialism, not such trivial matters as the possibility of privately owning the means of production. Such things mean nothing if I subject people to a kind of discipline they can't escape...What need have we to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings". (Wikipedia)

In essence, you cannot own private property because you don't even own yourself. Digest THAT Nazi scum!

>>728179838
germanfaq here, the nazi were neither. They made many socialist laws on the one hand, but were libeterians in stuff like minimum wage

they were consertatives bout womans role, and family etc, but where greens/liberals on animal rights

they just were nazis

>>728181929
I don't think people wanting to get out is a product of socialism, it's a product of people who don't want to live under a socialist regime being under a socialist regime. (I'm a libertarian, just so it doesn't sound like I'm defending socialism) but I don't see how a group of willing, excited pro communists wouldn't be able to succesfully distribute wealth

>>728180589
Nationalised welfare isn't incompatible with the right.
>>728180765
Hitler didn't care about economic policy -- he said as such himself. They were going for a mixed economy, but that was just a means to an end. People focus on their ideology because that's all Nazism was.

>>728182403
If you're a libertarian surely you would have to understand the simple failings of a centrally commanded market. It's so stupid my econ prof took 10 minutes and that was all the time we spent on it. It took him less than 10 minutes to explain why this ideology championed by millions around the world is garbage.

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>>728179838
National SOCIALISM

far right obv

>>728182097
That's the misconception about Communism. What you think of as Communism isn't, and this is a Capitalist speaking before one of you /pol/tards jumps me.
Communism is: a free society lacking in money, private property, a government, social hierarchy, and the workers own the means of production (factories offices and shit) and everyone lives via necessity. This society is achieved through a revolution, or what's called the Socialist Revolution. The new society will then defend itself and transition into the community that it seeks.
Anarcho-communism is communism that combines Anarchist thought with Communist thought. It isn't much different except that anarchists believe in personal property and have different ideas on what to do after the socialist revolution.

>>728182417
You're correct that National Socialism is really a philosophy more than anything, but we're taught jack shit about what it actually was in school. In high school I learned it was "racist" and a "police state". That was it. I think that's what anon was referencing when he said we focus too much on that shit.

>>728182687
>>728181311

>>728182701
Ackshually Marx saw socialism as more of a natural progression of capitalism, not necessarily something brought about by bloody revolution as it has so many times. He believed communism would be achieved naturally, just as capitalism was.

Turns out he was fucking wrong, so people forced it.

>>728182584
I'm no economics major, to be clear. But I don't really see why if I got a group together, and we said "ok, we all willingly and enthusiastically will work hard consistently and distribute the bread evenly among ourselves", why that wouldn't work, with or without a state as the middleman. In fact that's just tribalism. The harder they all worked the more bread they would all equally get. The problem is people slack off or aren't proponents of the system.

>>728182938
But that's not what socialism is. Socialism is the government controlling the entire economy. Anarchism and Syndicalism are very valid at least theoretically, but socialism isn't.

>>728182845
Naturally via the class struggle that would then culminate in the revolution. Do you even commie, bro?

>>728183095
I don't think I'd call the Bolsheviks the working class fam. It was elites taking the place of other elites telling the masses what to do.

>>728183060
By "the entire economy" it seems that it would be the same system as described but just on a much grander scale. So now we're distributing bread and clothes and housing, what's the difference?

>>728179838
gr8 b8 m8 I r8 it an 8

Nazism was born from the Eugenics movement, just as Planned Parenthood was born from the Eugenics movement. Nazism relied on leftist policies, like universal heatlhcare.

One of the key differences between right/Repulican and left/Democrat ideologies is the question of whether the world is a fair and just place. Republicans believe the world is inherently fair and just, so the fewer laws and regulations you have the better things are. Demccrats believe the world is inherently unjust, so the more laws and regulations the better. Nazism had a similar approach, complete government control requires people voluntarily give up rights and liberties. Convincing people they're better off with fewer rights and more government control is central to both Nazism and liberal Democrat policies, so the two are still pretty closely related.

>>728183239
The Bolsheviks weren't communists to begin with, just a bunch of faggots who to Marxist theory to take over Russia and exact total control.

>>728179838
GRVIII BVIII MVIII

>>728183429
*who took over Marxist theory

>>728183243
I'm surprised you're not a commie with all the leniency you're giving it.

I guess I'll try and sum up the examples my econ prof gave; he basically broke it down into two inherent problems (economically, not to mention socially)

a) the incentive problem: in a centrally commanded economy it stifles competition and ambition, therefore people have no incentive to work harder or innovate. it basically creates stagnation.

b) the chain problem: when you have the government controlling the entire economy it becomes ridiculously complicated, meaning some underpaid jerk off on a govt paycheck is deciding how much iron should be refined, go into manufacturing, be built into ships, guns, whatever. it becomes a long chain where if one link fails the entire system breaks.

i think that summed it up

>>728183472
Top kek

>>728183254
>this is your brain on burgers

trying to frame all of history as repubs vs dems might be the stupidest thing i've read all day.

>>728183610
it seems likely that most of what you read is beyond your comprehension level. it makes sense you think it's stupid if you can't understand it.

I'm not trying to frame all of history, but there is a fundamental difference between left and right ideologies. if you believe the world is fair and just, it makes sense not to regulate or try to control it. (of course, if you have lots of money fewer regulations help you keep making money). if you believe the world is unfair or unjust, or if you want complete control (like Nazis or any fascists), you want to regulate and control as much as possible.

if that's too complicated for you, try again after you complete high school

>>728179838
>>>/pol/

>>728183550
The incentive problem is what I've been talking about, the incentive would still be profit, but collective profit, and maximizing collective profit would almost require the whole population to be fully on board and working, not just as much as required, but willingly to the full extent.

The chain problem just examines a dangerous aspect of socialism, and says "well this is likely to be ruined", but in an imaginary world where somehow all the numbers get crunched right ect. It wouldn't be a problem.

It does stifle innovation though, and a million other things, but it could certainly provide your bare minimums.

>>728180799
There's no such thing as "socially far-right". Right and left are measures of a party's thought on the organization of the state. You can be a social conservative leftist and a socially liberal right-winger. Only burgers think anything else.

>>728183929
i'm not even going to engage you lmao, trying to compare nazism to american liberalism is seriously the dumbest fucking thing i've ever heard. you have to be a special kind of pseudo-intellectual to believe that retardation

>>728183990
Right, I see what you mean.

It's like with capitalism all incentive is directed towards the individual, in communism it's directed entirely towards the state, and in national socialism it's half and half.

But yeah, I guess I'd have to circle back to what I said earlier. The USSR had a population that believed in such a thing, and it still didn't work. People realized communism wasn't all it was hyped up to be.

>>728184008
It's just semantics, everyone has a different fucking definition. Right usually means conservative and left usually means liberal, there's no point in derailing debates over muh dictionary definition.

>>728181368
Dude, have you ever wondered why we're here?

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>>728184272

>>728184197
The USSR was never a "real" communist state. it was just a smoke screen for elites to have an iron grip on the country.

>>728184197
The USSR had major chain problems and government corruption, though, and again, the population was hardly willing, it was either work to some mediocre extent, barely filling your required amount (causing scarcity) or to the gulags

>>728184392
Probably. What would be different in an actual socialist state than in the USSR? I mean specifically the socialist phase of communism, not ancom.

>>728184441
Which is again, a problem that came about with socialism. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can't have what you're describing with socialism, because people don't like it.

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>>728183929
pic related

>>728184568
We're running in circles lol.
>people like socialism
>people willingly cooperate with socialism
>socialism works moderately well
>gov leaders don't abuse power
Or
>substantial amount of population dislikes socialism so that needs aren't met to the extent that they need to be
>gov leaders also abuse power
or even
>gov leaders don't abuse power
All the cards have to align just right

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>>728184392

>>728184392
you can't be this dumb

>>728185121
Those images are funny but also inherently incorrect.

>>728185219
He's correct, communism is supposed to be a place without governments, money, bosses, private property or even social classes, and the USSR is anything but.

>>728185220
No, they are pretty much correct.
Name one thriving Communist country

>>728184869
Lol what I'm trying to say is even if people like socialism and willingly cooperate with it, it'll fail. Because it's a shit system. I think you're trying to get at something more like National Socialism.

Nazism is far right but exploited systems associated with the left in order to gain favour with those on the left.

Kinda like when Bismarck introduced social welfare program in the German Empire.

>>728185323
Ok, inherently was the wrong word, mostly incorrect given those images usually are referring to shit the USSR and North Korea did, and they really weren't communists.

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>>728185325

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/thread

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>>728185528
No true scotsman I hear?
How many more millions of lives do we have to sacrifice before you realize this ideology is not compatible to human society?

>>728179838
Yes

>>728185802
No faggot, it's not some fallacy you looked up to sound smart, what those countries did completely contradicted Marx's philosophy.

>>728186044
>No true Scotsman is a kind of informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample.

Literally from Wikipedia.

>>728186325
He is right though. They are socialists, not communists.

>>728186325
Except I'm not changing the definition of communism you idiot, you're repeating misconceptions because Authoritarian Socialists used the word to convince real commies to have a revolution so they could step in and take power.

>>728186467
Oh boy, semantics.

>>728186656
Oh boy, you don't understand the No True Scotsman fallacy or communism.

Time to go back to /pol/

>>728186467
>convince real commies to have a revolution so they could step in and take power.
literally echoing what a 'no-true-scotsman' is.
lol I'm done with you dude.
There's a reason why your shitty system doesn't work, and will not for the foreseeable future.

>>728186819
You're giving up because you can't demonstrate it

thread

>>728186819
It's not even my system retard, I voted Trump but I got a good education about what actual communism is in high school.
Communism: a society with no money, government, or social class, where workers own their jobs basically and everyone lives by necessity. This is what Communism is according to Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, the founders. Every "Communist" country used/uses money, has/had a social class, has/had a government, and people don't live freely by necessity, they live by what the government says. That isn't communism retard, and if Karl Marx were alive he'd fucking stab you for being so retarded.

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>>728186930
It's pointless.
You're going to deny anything and everything I say. Look around you, capitalism made that happen.

You're on the same realm as the flat-earthers at this point, like a religion.

You haven't constructed an argument at all, really. so why should I care about the NEET Commie on 4Chan?

Go to sleep.

chock one up in your sad little red commie argument notepad file

>>728179838
This is simple, nazi, national socialist party...so you tell me who are the nazis...

>>728187230
I'm not that same Anon, but you still can't demonstrate it.

Post evidence or fuck off nigger

>>728187230
Nigger

>>728187230
You literally go on boards and scream fallacy and can't even link some good sources or make a well reasoned argument?

You must be an American

>>728179838
politically right wing, economically left wing

dead wing

>>728187675
>economically left wing
Not even. That might have been partially true until Ernst Röhm was murdered in 1934. After that they just teamed with the bourgeoisie as any far-right movement ends up doing.

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>>728179838
A little of both very right wing in ideology and stuffs but left wing like economics first to nationalize health care and what not

>>728187616
How does someone figuratively do that?

>>728181397
>22 million square kilometer territory
>homogenous
why don't I believe you?

>>728188032
>burgoisie
You don't have to be commie to be left.

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>>728179838
Are you niggers retarded? Left wing as fuck
>Huge government
>Wide sprawl of agencies
>State had extensive control over citizen's behavior
>Checkpoints and military installations
>Large, well staffed camps and laboratories
Nigga, all that shit costs a shit load of money to operate. Left=large government with more spending
>Right wing ideology
Where is racism exactly on the political scale? Just because the media says genocide and racism are right wing ideologies doesn't make it true
EZPZ

>>728188032
>>728188108
Factually the nazis didn't nationalize economy, they just passed deals with big private groups to produce their armament and whatever. Messerschmidt, Mäuser, Krupp, Bayer... all those were private companies that earned big money from the German government to support the war effort. That's not left wing economy.

>>728182403
Thats why the military is often called a "socialist pardise". That being said, it would be extremley difficult to persuade everyone in a nation to adhere. It works in the military because it's voluntary, and relativley small scale.

>>728188471
They were state controlled regardless so yes they were.

>>728188218
Learn how to politics. Right-wing is not defined by the absence or weakness of governmental action - that's just right-wing anarchism that you describe (aka the bullshit that teenagers and bible-belt faggots crave). Far-right tends to have massive governmental control of every aspect of life, by definition, just like stalinists would on the other end of the sprectrum. The difference is that far-left economy implies the collectivization of production means, which wasn't at all the case in nazi Germany.

>>728184869
this is accurate

>>728188532
The profits were private, that's what makes the fundamental difference. When you take money from everybody and give it to the already wealthy elite, that's right wing. That's what right-wing economy is by definition of the term "right wing".

There's no such thing as 'left-wing government'. Some could be advertised as ones, but that's just propaganda.

At the end of the day, it's not the masses or public liberties that the power allies with - it's the corporations and big money behind them.

Hitler would be a classical example: a bullshit artist who ends up starting a global war (and the concentration camps, to a degree) in the name of profits for German cartels.

>>728179838
It was Stalin that spread the big lie that Nazi's were right wing....they were left wing in all things.
Nazi stands for National Socialism...does anyone think socialism is right wing? No.

Hitler's political party was NSDAP, the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Mussolini (Fascist) and Hitler were both Socialists who saw the civil war in Russia and decided to allow for private property but subject to government regulation of everything. Now which political party wants a lot of regulation and which political party wants to reduce regulations?

In other words, no individual has the right to dispose arbitrarily of money which ought to be invested for the good of the country. If he disposes of it sensibly, well and good; if not, the National Socialist state will intervene.
… When this war is ended, Germany will set to work in earnest. A great 'Awake!' will sound throughout the country. Then the German nation will stop manufacturing cannon and will embark on peaceful occupations and the new work of reconstruction for the millions. Then we shall show the world for the first time who is the real master, capitalism or work. Out of this work will grow the great German Reich of which great poets have dreamed. It will be the Germany to which every one of her sons will cling with fanatical devotion, because she will provide a home even for the poorest. She will teach everyone the meaning of life.“ Speech at the Rheinmetall-Borsig Works’, Berlin (10 December 1940), Adolph Hitler

>>728179838
about as right as you can get

>>728183706
Beautiful

>>728179838
it's whatever the other side is pissed off about

>>728189096
biased ideological bullshit. See
>>728188032
>>728188471

>>728189125
Not really they're center right at best, biblebelt fags and ISIS are leagues ahead.

>>728179838

the terms should not be used at all. the terms "democrat" and "republican" mean "by the people" and "of the people". what does that mean to you? who cares. they mean the same thing.

"right wing" comes from french parliament of long ago. it was to describe a group of people who would show up early and vote in the same way, and they sat in the "right wing".

both "wings" are always trying to keep each other voting the same way, but i suppose, if you wanted to apply "right wing" to modern nations, you could say that our republicans are the more responsible, usually older people who "show up early".

>>728188035
>left wing like economics first to nationalize health care and what not
Nazis didn't actually do. It existed before the Nazi regime

>>728189368
They still kept it and deprivatized welfare.

>>728189472

Yeah, they needed it for support plus early Nazis wanted to keep certain socialized concepts.

>deprivatized welfare
what? That doesn't even make sense

>>728189318
I voted early to elect Trump, does that count?

The problem is the question is inherently flawed.

Academically left and right are suppose to be terms associated with political economic models. This usage has fell out of place in everyday language and simply poorly describes party politics. Think of Leftist economics hinging on the fact that the government or society has the right or monopoly to interfere with economic transactions whereas the far right is hardcore laissez faire and nobody gets to touch the economy. That's pretty much it and there's tons of math/methods that get you to either side that could be completely anti-thetical to the other such as Sovietism and mutualism being on the left but supporters of either would argue until their death against the other.

In reality Nazi Germany was a Centrist economy but very authoritarian. Basically, you could keep your capitalistic profits but the Fatherland came first. Your life, liberty, and money belongs to the government first and you second.

>>728189273
Left wing in all things. Big government in control of everything with a "Leader" at each level who all answer to the top leader, Hitler. Just as Stalin had unquestioned control of the Soviet Union.

Nazi, Fascist, Communist...just names. Collectivist is the reality behind each of them. Right wing is small government.

If you cannot see what is plain as day then there is little hope you'll ever understand anything.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

>>728189630
Welfare systems used to be run privately in nuzzi grmy and my buddy Gabe blargh largh hgargh

>>728189696
>Right wing is small government
not necessarily

>>728189096

Lmao @ Mussolini and Hitler being socialists. Socialism means the means of production do not lie with the government or corporations but the workers. There was never a time when either advocated for such a thing and is antithetical to their entire political careers. They were socialists in name only and this was parodied in sorts by George Orwell's 1984 where Facists called themselves a part of Eng Soc which stood for English Socialism. Facism and Socialism are completely incompatible.

>>728189867
lmao are you simple?

>>728189867
Retard, Fascism at least was started by taking socialist ideas and removing the some aspects of marxism out of it and 1984 is a criticism of Soviet "Communism."

>>728189318
Actually it was the French Assembly and right wing was for the "status quo" of Monarchy and the state religion, Catholic. Left wing was everyone who wanted something different; socialists/communists, anarchists, social democrats, libertarians, republicans, etc.

>>728189867
bro, you clearly dont know what the word socialism means

>>728189858
Right? The hard right in America believe in authoritarian economic measures like perpetual war that costs trillions and interfering in everyone's lives because the bible.

>>728189990
Ignore the "the" part, typo.

>>728179838
Mmm depends. Ideologically they hated immigrants, homosexuality, had hyper nationalism and basically wanted to bring germany back to the good ol' days and freeze social progress just like righties. But they did that through big government, taking away freedoms, spent a shit load of money they didnt have to be awesome like the US, so in that sense they're lefties. Conventional academia considers nazis and fascism in general as right wing.

>>728189696
>>728189858
>Right wing is small government.
That may be true for US Republicans, but the world extends beyond the Bible belt. Right-wing dictatorships for example are always very found of big government. Or right-wing "fake nose" democracies, see Russia for example.

>>728183254
>tfw dems and repubs are both right wing by international standards

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lefties

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>>728190188

everyone here is retarded and doesn't know what socialism and what left-wing and right-wing mean.

The Nazi party WAS socialist. Under a socialist economy, the government takes control of production, resources, and even small businesses in some cases. The name literally mean: National Socialist

ya'll are fucking stupid.

>>728189680
Absolutely correct. I'd say "absolutely right" but then some of you would be confused. Just remember Left-collectivist big government, little individual freedom and Right-small government and maximum individual freedom.

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>>728179838

I would say that they are not birds.

>>728189962
>>728189990
>>728190016

Looks like we have some pol tards and trolls.

Using babby's furst political guide known as Wikipedia, the first sentence shows how they're unrelated

"Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production"

Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism

>>728190188

"According to the idea of the NSDAP, we are the German Left ... Nothing is more hateful to us than the right-wing national block of citizenship."

>>728190284

At least someone gets it

>>728190214

"My sensitive political sentiments were on the left."

>>728190255
Thats not saying much. Socialism is what happens when capitalism and communism fuck and have a little economical baby. Socialism is centrist.

>>728190188
>>728190214
Nice Try, but Nazis are right-wing

>>728190255
Names don't mean shit because they weren't socialist

>>728190083
You seem to be confusing the economical left-right axis with the liberal-authoritarian axis.

"Big government" is a natural feature of an authoritarian society, be it left or right wing. The specificity of the right-wing case being that the "big government" makes sure that no one can oppose the transfer of wealth from the masses to the elite, when a left-wing "big government" would forcibly ensure the reverse transfer.

Let's face it, "small government" is not much more than an American fetish of sorts.

nazi is centrist authoritarian. people who say "the national socialist german's worker party" is far right are children

>>728190294

You are clearly a retard, sir. "Social ownership" also means the people in the government, which means only the people in the government

>>728179838
Pretty centrist tbh, but only because their positions sort of balanced each other out. They had both far-left and far-right positions, however a unifying factor in the Nazi platform is extreme authoritarianism.

>>728190422
>Nice Try, but Nazis are right-wing

They saw themselves as left. You will not be able to disprove this.

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>>728190489

>>728190422
"Nazis MUST have been right-wing because drumfp is literally hitler"

You're one of those ANTIFA faggots, arent you?

>>728190002
True. The king put his supporters at his right hand because he deemed them the "good ones", and the "rebels" at his "bad" hand, the left one.

>>728190526
They saw themselves and authoritarian and returning the status qu under the German Empire, which was far right.

You never proved they saw themselves as left

>>728190083
Yeah. Academics (mostly left-wing) push Stalin's lie about Nazi's and Fascist's as right wing because otherwise it would hurt their cause.

How is the Soviet Gulag so different from German concentration camps?

Stalin was around longer and killed more of his people than Hitler did.

>>728190629
The Nazis were Socialists. You honestly cannot disprove this

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>>728189318
Etymology does not equal definition or popular use of a word or phrase. This is the best definition I've come across as it presents issues in a dichotomous fashion.

>>728190702
They weren't socialists, you honestly don't understand socialism or Nazi Germany

>>728189990

lmao 1984 is a destruction of authoritarianism:

Insoc is the philosophy of Oceania where the story takes place and represents European facism, Neo-Bolshevikism is the philosophy of Eurasia and represents Sovietism, and Eastasia has Death Worship that wasn't explained. The point was that no matter how you ended up there, Authoritarian governments essentially do the same thing with different flavors, whether we're calling their atrocities gulags and forced famines or concentration camps and the final solution. And perpetual war with changing alliances only fueled the fire and kept them in power.

Idiot.

>>728190702
you canot prove anything, nigger

>>728190543
What a piece of crap. I can make a chart also (but wouldn't waste my time) and it would say whatever I wanted it to say.

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>>728190669
I bet pic related is you. Reject education all you want. You wont seem smarter. Just seems like a cop out.

>>728180570
You're an idiot

>>728190805
Specifically the Authoritarianism of Authoritarian Socialists, like USSR, faggot.

>>728190629
>You never proved they saw themselves as left

I posted quotes of Goebbels and Eichmann. Are you blind?

>>728190852
this chart is from the people who made the political compass...

>>728190852
No shit, retard. I could define red as blue if aI wanted to. The point is utility, and for the purpose of this discussion (determining if a political party was left or right wing) this definition is useful as it presents a clear definition.

>>728183060
>Socialism is the government controlling the entire economy.
thats communism you brainfart

>>728190996
I bet Breitbart told him that was what socialism is kek>>728190996

>>728190996
Communism doesn't have an economy mongoloid, real communism has no money.

>>728190908
Hitler..launched into a general survey of the political situation...the experience of the last fourteen years had shown that 'private enterprise cannot be maintained in the age of democracy'. Business was founded above all on the principles of personality and individual leadership.Democracy and liberalism led inevitably to Social Democracy and Communism...[the NSDAP] would show no mercy towards [its] enemies on the left. It was time 'to crush the other side completely'...
[Hitler] planned to crush the German left and in the process he was more than willing to use physical force. At least according to the surviving record, the conflict between left and right was the central theme of the speeches by both Hitler and Goering on 20 February...Since German business had a major stake in the struggle against the left, it should make an appropriate financial contribution. 'The sacrifice[s]', Goering pointed out, 'would be so much easier...to bear if it [industry] realized that the election of 5 March will surely be the last one for the next ten years, probably even for the next hundred years.'
Over the following three weeks [the NSDAP] received contributions from seventeen different business groups. The largest individual donations came from IG Farben (400,000 Reichsmarks) and the Deutsche Bank (200,000 Reichsmarks). The association of the mining industry also made a generous deposit of 400,000 Reichsmarks. Other large donors included the organizers of the Berlin Automobile Exhibition (100,000 Reichsmarks) and a cluster of electrical engineering corporations including Telefunken, AEG and the Accumulatoren Fabrik...it was the donations in February and March 1933 that really made the difference.

There I posted a famous historian, I win.

Seriously, the Nazis saw themselves as right while some individuals saw themselves on the left. Pick a book and read about them. They saw themselves a far right.

>>728190805
You're absolutely correct. What's in a name? Look for the reality (Collectivism vs individual liberty of Life, Liberty and Property); look for the man behind the curtain, is it you or is it Big Brother?

>>728179838
easy way to look at it,the Democrats would run him for president

>>728182687
so far left means 'international capitalism' ?

>>728191123

You post interpretations of third parties, not the opinion and feelings of then Nazis.

You could argue both ways, and in fact everyone is

The thing you have to realise is at either end of the spectrum, if you go far enough, you end up with fascism and extremism

There are elements of the reich that fall into both far left and right in my opinion. If I was made to pick just one though I'd lean right, due to the overwhelming nationalism

>>728190742
Another leftist bullshit chart! Mostly lies and half truths.

>>728190904

The USSR wasn't democratic and thus not a real socialist state. Communism is an anarchist philosophy and the purported (but not real) end goal of the Soviet Union was to follow Marxism's originally intended a gradual shift from capitalism to socialism to communism but they never wanted the government to cease to exist. That's why they academically follow Sovietism and not socialism.

And of course you wouldn't fucking know anything about George Orwell's support for socialism as he witnessed in Spain. 1984 literally says IngSoc is spiting in the face of socialism. 1984 was written on the back of The Lion and the Unicorn: Socialism and the English Genius which was a pro-Democratic Socialist essay written by George Orwell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_and_the_Unicorn:_Socialism_and_the_English_Genius

Fucking idiot.

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I'm a leftie. Get over it!

>>728191268
>>728191268
Hitler described the party as right.

All you have done is cherry pick quotes when in reality Goebbels and Eichmann saw themselves occupied far right views.

You simply don't understand this topic.
You need to do some research

>>728191355
Oh boy, the "Orwell was a Socialist" meme. Yes and? He was a Socialist on the libertarian side, not the Authoritarian side like USSR. I was in college level English in high school faggot, I know what I'm saying.

Nazis hate jews. Lefties hates jews. Case closed.

>>728191277
No. With right-wing small government their is all of the good and evil of the left (we're all human), but with small government it's small and localized. With left-wing collectivism they feel it necessary to force their ideas of "correctness" on everyone for the greater good. Read "Rules for Radicals" O's and H's favorite book and you'll see what I mean.

>>728191507
>Hitler described the party as right.

He never did.

>>728191294
Seems pretty spot on to me. What issues do you have with it?

>>728180570
You've got your You head so far up your asshole that's you mistake your shit for reasonable discourse.

>>728191488
False!

>>728191294
It is a definition to be used. To imply a definition is "wrong" or "bullshit" is by definition a semantical fallacy.
"Semantic: The etymological fallacy as a semantic error is the mistake of confusing the current meaning of a word with the meaning of one of its etymons, or of considering the meaning of the etymon to be the "real" or "true" meaning of the current word. If one's goal is to communicate, then the "real" or "true" meaning of a word is its current meaning."

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>trump is a nazi
>trump is right wing
>nazis are right wing
gee that sure was hard to figure out

>>728179838
The Nazi's were very clearly right but people not longer champion their cause.

>>728179838
Socialist - typically left
Nationalist - typically right
Fascist - can be either

>>728191628
He did when he described it characteristics

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>>728179838
nazi is allways the side you dont like

>>728191507
>occupied far right views

You must understand the political world view of the 1920s and 1930s, and not transfer today's views to that time. At the time, the right was conservative, left revolutionary (following the emergence of the terms right and left after the French Revolution).

>>728191602
So, why is the liberal media controlled by jews?

>>728191637
Left wing more prone to war and individual liberty (right wing) is the only organization of society that will support a stable civilization over time.

Individual freedom is necessary for Self-Esteem and Self-Actualization, the only positive motivation to work to serve society by serving self. Free Capitalism.

Also, Socialism, Communism, Social Democracy are just capitalism (speculative production for trade) with lesser degrees of individual liberty.

>>728191749

No, this is only your interpretation.

>>728191869
If you truly understand anything and have done even a modest amount of research, then you are a liar. It's quite simple.

>>728191973
Communism has nothing in common with capitalism except that they're economic/political.

>>728191973
>individual liberty (right wing)
What? Individual LIBERty is a LIBERal policy, liber being the latin word for "free".

>>728191869
I'm a German Historian
I understand it better than you and you fail to understand that even under the political spectrum of the time, it was far-right.

Antisemitism, Nationalism, inspiration from the far-right Freikorps, anti-liberal, anti-communism, anti-Marxist and anti-armistice. These were far-right ideologies consistent with the Nazis.

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praise kek
>praise kek
praise kek
>praise kek
praise kek
>praise kek
praise kek

>>728191869
this is b8

>>728191869
nigger wat

>>728191671
Good at cut-and-paste, lousy at logic. A "definition" is only as good as the author and this author (you) suck.

Would you like me to define "you suck" for you?

>>728191877

money

>>728191869
So /pol/ is far-left?

You retarded fagbag

>>728192181
Don't forget anti-trade unionism and xenophobia

>>728191869
Back to /pol/ with your weak as shit

>>728192181

Dann bist du ein bekloppter 68er. Schäm dich, hättest dir das Studium sparen können. Sie sahen sich als Linke oder nenne mir ein gegensätzliches Zitat, du Historiker.

  ▲
▲ ▲

Nigger

>>728192296

stupid?

>>728192344

In 1930 it was, you idiot.

>>728192181
Nice try comrade, but it won't fly.

The only reason left-wing Hitler and Left-wing Stalin had a falling out after dividing Poland was they each wanted to rule the world.

>>728192304
Actually, a definition is only as good as it is useful.

>>728192376
>xenophobia

National socialism

>>728192406
Fick di ins knoi, Alter.

Du hast verloren, weil du gar nichts über die Nazis weißt.

>>728192431
The ultimate Anti-Newfag Weapon has been deployed
Are you mad you can destroy the entire world with that

>>728192518
>Du hast verloren, weil du gar nichts über die Nazis weißt.

Du hast dein Wissen von Antifa-Schulungen oder was? Trottel.

>>728192500
Nice try, Nigger.
Hitler was right wing

>>728192470
If you know anything about history, then no

>>728179838
Authoritarian centrist

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OK, the time is over. Here is the answer: we are left.

>>728192548
haha Spasti. Weinst du schon? Zurück in den Deutschlandfaden!

>>728192304
Nice dodge, dumbass. >>728191294's
reasoning was literally shown to be flawed, but you ignore that and start spewing bullshit about what constitutes a good definition.

>>728192671

Warum soll ich über deine Blödheit weinen? Höchstens Fremdscham.

>>728192509
That makes no sense whatsoever.

A misleading definition is useful for misleading people. See Big Brother and "Newspeak".

>>728192181
OP Here
This guy actually brought facts to a faggot fight
/thread

>>728179838
Hitler had it so made, why he decided to take it to the level he did and go into Russia while also fighting on another front really shows how messed up his mind was getting. From 1933 till 1941 or so he was on top of the world. Even until early 44 his people loved him like a God. But by that time it was a matter of time before they were destroyed.

>>728192746

But he misinterpreted this facts.

>>728192732
>Blödheit
Ja, sicher. Schreib mir wieder, wenn du an einer Uni studierst hast und deutsche Geschichte weisst, du Penner.

Is Putin a commi?

>>728192734
>A misleading definition is useful for misleading people.
Relevance? based on the principle that a good definition is one which maximizes utility, and utility being defined as ''clear communication", then misleading definitions would not be useful.

The interesting part about nazi germany is that they removed jewish usury and influence from their culture and economy and it flourished!

>>728192840
history books disagree with you

>>728192857
>und deutsche Geschichte weisst

Deine Ausdrucksweise zeigt deine mangelnde Bildung. Uni liegt weit hinter mir.

>>728192727
Truth constitutes a "good" definition.

Your chart and/or definition sadly lacks that key element, hence my use of the word "lie"

You use a false premise supported by false assumptions, if done intentionally it is a lie, if unintentionally it is a mistake, either way it's bullshit.

>>728192910
Du lerntest gar keine Geschichte und studiertest nie an einer Uni. Leider habe ich keine mehr Zeit, weil ich arbeiten muss. Lesen Sie mal Kershaw bitte.

>>728179838
Wiki says god emperor Hitler said neither tho cra cra hard rights love it, or some shit like that. If you want to take more from that, then you dumb. Both left and right were part of the nazi party. kewl af if ya ask me

Wiki on nazism: Adolf Hitler and other proponents officially portrayed Nazism as being neither left- nor right-wing, but syncretic. Sounds like hitler may not have been as bad as those who took a side, he just wanted his political party to work instead of fight itself to death.

>>728192875
But your purpose is not clear communication, your purpose (if you're aware of the truth) is to mislead. It is therefore "useful" to you in order to mislead, but not useful for those mislead.

>>728193101

Die Uni scheint bei dir nicht gefruchtet zu haben, sie soll nämlich durchaus zum selbständigen Denken erziehen. Mir irgendein Lehrbuch zu empfehlen, zeugt von sklavischer Wissensaneignung, die eines Akademikers unwürdig ist. Da könnte ich auch auf die Thesen des Historikes Arnulf Baring verweisen.

>>728181050
>analyzing
Bitching
FTFY

>>728193376
Bitching about, I'm drunk

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breakfast

>>728179838
ITT: Nazis in denial trying to convince others that hippies are Nazis.

>>>/pol/

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>>728181397

>>728182701
What is a socialist revolution?,
How come no one owns land except those working it?
What motivates people to do more than whatever the minimal amount of work that is required?
Who defines that amount of work?
Who is going to enforce that?
Do the cops own the jails? The workers own the means of production and law enforcement is kinda the means of producing(maintaining) a semi civilized society.
What stops them from becoming oppressive?

I'm with ya, I just want some answers, Comrade.

>>728193224
>But your purpose is not clear communication,
yes it is
>your purpose (if you're aware of the truth) is to mislead
how does that follow
>It is therefore "useful" to you in order to mislead, but not useful for those mislead.
except that's not what I'm doing. Just because you don't like a definition because it hurts your little feels, doesn't make it a bad definition. If you have one that you think is better than post it.

>>728184271
So its liberal authoritarian and liberal libertarian? The latters combo is so close to each other, it's kinda confusing.

>>728193909
I wonder if my comrades will answer my questions. I can't do my part if I can't tell others who are concerned about those things.

Daily reminder that liberals and republicans are literally the same shit

Daily reminder 2 : Far rights and far lefts should all be executed in sight

Daily reminder 3 : Gypsies are subhumans

>>728194770
Nobody gives a shit if you think right wingers aren't nazis besides your psychiatrist

>>728180416
>socialism
>planned economy
>economic : right
Are you kidding me m8?

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If you still have doubts about Nazis being leftists...

>>728179838
Nazi is left wing

>>728194836
Comrade, I said nothing of nazis. How will I aid our fellow workers in the socialist Revolution if I don't know more. Some of the workers care about those things.

If Hitler is a leftie, is Trump also one?

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it was a joke, guys

>>728180043
National SOCIALISM

>>728194836
Comrades, PLEASE! I beg you! Help me!
I wish to fight with you, however I have those questions.
Our fellow workers need our help and I, as many others, have some concerns.
I am very ignorant of the mighty Commune and wish to know more of our beautiful future as equals.
Educate me, Comrade!

>>728179838

Well they were both. For starters they were socialists which is leftist political ideology. Example Nazis invented first animal rights and first nation wide health care and income programs. They were right wingers in some issues too.

REMINDER TO EVERYBODY IN THIS THREAD: Nationalism isn't left or right. Turkey is currently right wing and they are super nationalists. China is communist so super leftists and they are also super nationalists. Nationalism can be used in both sides of political spectrum. Even centrist can be nationalist.

ANOTHER REMINDER: Complete opposite of nationalism is globalism. Right wing globalist (usually corporate) dream is world without borders and tulls. Left wing globalist dream is world without borders where everybody is one moving work force for communism (basically unlimited human capital).

>>728194835
Daily reminder 4: this guy gets IT
Daily reminder 5: organs collected from far-right and -left are to be donated and used to save lives, please take extreme a side it's for a good cause
Daily reminder 6: humans = shit
Daily reminder 7: fuck moar

>>728194836
Comrades, I implore you!
Help your fellow worker!
I wish to know more of what will happen when we overtake the capitalist scum!
We will win, but only if we work together!
There are workers who are worried and I wish to calm them, help not me but them!
They will surely join our movement if we can answer some of their questions!
Comrades, unite! Let me help throw off the shackles of the booshwazee and those who fancy themselves the ruling class, we will prevail!

>>728194836
Come on commies, answer my damn questions or admit your ideas are flawed.

>>728194836
It's sad when the commies kick one of their fellow workers out of their group because he askes a question. Sounds like the real fascists are the commies. Won't even let me join the good fight even tho I want to help fight the oppressors, sad.

>>728179838
this fools don't know, that it's middle wing

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ITS CHOMPA WING

>>728179838
Nazi are synerg-wing, take the best of each and kill off the bad. It's the Hitler way, very effective because you don't have to deal with all the "I just want to X" and says "No, you love your Country, now you will do Y". It'd make life easier, if you weren't part of the other. Aka: anyome who disobeys

>>728180470
Lmao

>>728195397
Though they were conservative and kept right-oriented politics close to heart?
The name is ambiguous and reflects the originators visions of the meaning, not an actual coordinate in the political spectrum.
Nazis were right wing, although they considered themselves somewhat socialistic, which means fuck all coming from totalitarian ideologies.

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Both communism and socialism were created by the military industrial complex to ferment war.

It was a huge money making scam. If you legitimately believe in either socialism or communism....kill yourself.

>>728197801
>Nazis were right wing, although they considered themselves somewhat socialistic
These two sources seem to disagree, what say you to that?
Hitler, Adolf in Domarus, Max and Patrick Romane, eds. The Essential Hitler: Speeches and Commentary, Waulconda, Illinois: Bolchazi-Carducci Publishers, Inc., 2007, p. 170.
Koshar, Rudy. Social Life, Local Politics, and Nazism: Marburg, 1880-1935, University of North Carolina Press, 1986. p. 190.

>>728192156
Tell me you're not that stupid, it's confusing but not the same. Google what the Republican party supposedly stands for or what they were founded for and you'll see how you're wrong.

>>728190879

>>728191643


LMAO!! When you know you're beaten, your last refuge is to disparage the personality of your opponent.

Nazis were right-wing
/thread

The further left you go the more decentralized government is, since all power is in one man fascism is right wing

Fascists weren't really socialist since their programs only applied to pure Germans and not Jews or communists.

While the Nazis had a mix of left and right ideas/policies, the ideology itself was far-right by 1930's standards

National Socialist was just a name, like Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

It is right, far-right by most standards unless you are:
Nazi
History revisionist

>>728180416
>Wrong
>Wrong
>Correct
Stop spreading disinformation, faggot.

>>728180765
In a nutshell, this is correct.

>>728179838
More left than right

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>>728207622

>brb conservative to the point of killing people who don't respect german tradition

Germany had a tradition long before they were engulfed in Nazism faggot. Murder and torture wasn't one of them before the country got hijacked by Hitler. German tradition =/= Nazi tradition

>brb ultra nationalist to the point of ethnocentrism to an extreme that is historically unrivaled, committed to literal extermination of jews

Not unlike the democrats that murdered Lincoln for freeing the slaves then

>>728208280
I know you're a liberal hippie. I didn't need to see your picture. No one does. You are doing the Lord's work by staying in your mom's basement, hidden from the general public, at all times.

>>728179838
Very left wing. The left like to call them right because they know the left are idiots.

>>728208196
the only way you could come to the conclusion that a radical revolutionary like stalin was somehow killing people to preserve tradition in some way is if you have an extreme case of mental retardation

brb start a violent revolution that completely destroys and replaces the social/political/religious norms in the russia and purge ALL dissidents

... yep sure is killing people for not embracing traditional czarist russian values... god you're a fucking tard

the only thing that the communists and facists had in common was their utter reliance on authoritarianism and their relentless purging of dissidents, which is neither a trait of the right or left

>>728208658
I'd tell you to read mein kampf but you probably can't actually read and just had someone typing up this stupid reply for you

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>>728209234
The left are too stupid to know they're idiots. How else could they possibly shun Hitler as a leader, while simultaneously propping up Fidel Castro and Che Guevara as bastions of liberalism? They're just college hippie band-wagoners with no idea of what they're talking about. Just print a tyrannical fascist on a t-shirt and they'll think he was a hero. That's all it takes.

>>728209778
>Go read this book because I'm too uneducated to refute anything you said - The modern liberal"

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>>728179838

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ITT bunch of mental midget cuckservatives trying to rustle some bait in the murky waters

Hitler was a cuck, just like the majority of cucks out there trumping it up, he enjoyed watching his dates get stolen by superior men and it ate him up inside because he had an incredibly small dick, so he started to have a scat fetish and killed as many people as he could to cure his meth fueled rage

hitler was just an average right winger cuck, you can tell by his writings where he just literally spent his whole book whineing about what a victim cuck he is and how bad the left is and how bad jews are, just a big long book of crying like the little cuck he was, should have changed it from mein kampf to I'M GAY, LISTEN TO ME CRY

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>>728210230

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>>728210280

merci beaucop and touche

>>728203460
>Christianity is the way to go
the faith that was responsible for the middle ages are the way to go ?

>>728209604
>somehow killing people to preserve tradition

Are you trying to imply that the Russians were nice, peaceful people before he came along? Violence and brutality are very ancient traditions in Russia. It's so ingrained in their culture that they literally cannot demonstrate anything resembling kindness or mercy, and think that they are unnatural. So yes he was preserving the legacy of the likes of Ivan the Terrible. Evil men have no songs. How is it that Russians have songs?

>>728209778
Yes, it's a very good read. That's why Fidel Castro was so fond of it, and modeled his own public persona after Hitler and Mussolini.

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>>728210661
>>728210828

wasn't sure if just stupid or trolling at first, I see now that you're just trolling, you can't actually be serious

going to go to work, enjoy the thread you made as it dies