Prove me the world exists.

>>727815768
There is no way to tell if the world we live in ia real or not

>>727816036
So what do I believe?

>>727816127
i'm 100% if u kys nothing happens so take that as u wish

out the billion of people living on this planet no1 realizes that we are immortal beings. The day that i die is the day that pigs fly.

You can't die wake up

The world exists because it pulls the sun just like every other planet in the solar system, if you meant reality then that's another story

>>727815768
It doesn't. The world is recreated inside your brain, you actually touch nothing, see nothing, hear nothing.

>>727816319
>world means earth
We're not in the middle ages.

God this pretentious phase is the worst.

The world exists because you can touch it, smell it, feel it, taste it, see it.

You guys will grow out of this retarded fucking phase.

>>727817538
baaah, baaah, bleeet

fucking sheep - thats what you sound like

>>727817720
I'm a sheep for knowing the world exists? Get your shit together.

>>727815768
I can't prove whether the world exists to you, if you already believe it doesn't. Because in order to prove that the world exists to you, for me, I must operate from within the world, to prove to you, inside your head, that the outside seems to be something. As you most likely don't believe that the outside is something, everything I allege to do is futile.

Including this reply, because for you, it never happened, and it is not real. You're not even really reading this. You're not even really there.

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test

>>727817538
>the world exists because of my subjective sensations
Does a tree in the forest exist when no one is seeing it?

>>727818034
Yes it does exist.You will grow out of this phase.

>>727818139
But nobody is touching it, smelling it, feeling it, tasting it, or seeing it.

>>727818139
But I'm not feeling it. You contradicted yourself.

>>727817903
You might be a parrot for not wanting to entertain baby's first existential quandary, instead replying with a gross generalization about experience and the nature of existence or the concept of self.

>>727818139
I think the word "exists" needs to be defined now.

>>727818307
>>727818311

There are organisms perceiving it because trees are covered in and filled with life. That's besides the point, nothing of my post says that you have to always be perceiving a given object for it to be real.

If the world wasn't real you wouldn't be percieving anything.

>>727818467
The word exist does not need to be broken down. It is self-explanatory.

>>727818307
>>727818311
This type of philosophical reductionism does not make you smart, it makes you a full of shit college freshman who will literally give someone a long winded explanation why he doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

>>727815768
Prove me

>>727815768
if this world didn't exist and was only made up in your mind, you could change the world with only your mind. Can you?

>>727815768
There's bad shit and good shit. That's really it. If you're smart enough, you'll see it.

>>727818467
Reality is what we want it to be.

>>727819125
I think, therefore I am, dude
you do too

>>727819286
I want you to kill yourself and stream it

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>>727815768
There is no way to prove it

Read up on solipsism

I agree with solipsism for the most part

Existentialists argue solipsism leads to quietism

Maybe that's why I am depressed

>>727819464
Good point

>>727819600
Want it harder

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>>727815768
We cannot prove or disprove that it exists.

By thinking of the world, does it not, in your thoughts, exist?

For you to have thoughts about the world, it has to be a subject, and there for is, rather than is not.
If it is not, you would not have thoughts about it, for there is no it to have thoughts about it.

If something was not, but you thought about it, does it then make it?

>>727815768
>twenty one pilots fan art
kill yourself

>>727815768
727819956

>>727815768
>Prove me the world exists.
If it did it would have taught you better grammar.

>>727819822
>moving the goalpost
fuck off lier

Really doesn't matter one way or the other you will still be a dumb faggot

>>727820099
Dub dubs of truth kek

>>727818715
The word exist does not need to be broken down, sure. Etymology not needed. The context with which you were intending to give to the word, does need to be broken down. You can't be so vague and expect what you've typed to be self-explanatory. The word "exists" is a verb, not a noun. In the way you were using it, with regards to what context you were using it in, you most definitely need to break it down; it is impossible to determine, explicitly, what you meant when you used it the way you did.

So, yes, nothing of your post then said that you had to always be perceiving a given object for it to be real, but nothing of your post then said otherwise either. That was so incredibly vague and disingenuous.

>>727820099
Nothing matters, so anything matters, so everything matters.

You think therefore you are. The world exists because, well you know what I mean when I say world. Whether it is virtual or 'real' however you feebly understand that is irrelevant.

>>727820040
what is the correct grammar?

Prove me that the world exist?

>>727820212
No it's nothing matters so nothing matters

>>727820189
I was using it as a verb like anyone uses the term you autist.

>>727820346
If nothing matters why'd you say that? Something must've mattered to you to incentivize you to take that or any action.

>>727820277
well saying "i cant doubt that im doubting" proves that a thinking thing exists, but it doesnt prove that the rest of the world exists

descartes actually has to use god to get back things like reason, the world, mathematics, and science

>>727820425
The main issue isn't that you were using a verb incorrectly. I've yet to say that.

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>>727815768
>>727820296

Go outside and live in the woods without clothes, food, electricity, and your fucking computer. You'll find out how real the world is real quick nigger.

Also, go to English class asshole.

>>727815768
Why not put it to the test? Walk down the busiest street in your town in the middle of the day with your eyes closed - if the world doesn't exist, nothing will happen.

>>727820563
>>727820605
you could still doubt the existence of all those things that kill you or ail you

>>727820558
I was not, I said a tree exists if you're not there and that the world exists because you perceive it. I'm using the word correctly.

>>727820563
nigger I'm not OP, I'm asking about the grammar because inglish isn't my first language

>>727820446
We are reffering to different things when we say the world exists.

You are thinking of something vague like is it true that all the things that make up the world are really "there" whatever there means.

But you know that the world exists because, we are talking about it. Physicality is irrelevant to existence. Do words exist? Of course they do because they just like "the world" is a thing which we can think about. To be a question it must be a concept and to be a concept is to be something. Is our understanding of the world at all accurate? We haven't a clue, but does it exist? Yes, absolutely.

>>727815768
Kill yourself then tell us what happens.

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>>727820731

5 dolla make yu holla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oX2xFo7JA4

>>727820767
by "the world" i just mean simple objects of perception, ie matter (physical substance)

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>>727820730

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>>727820715

Then go try it out shitstain. Let me know if you figure it out.

>>727821129
im not saying you aren't justified in what youre saying, but the point is to prove it beyond all doubt

>>727820943
Stay retarded.

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>>727821210
But I'm not the one who can't read at a college level.

>>727815768
You cant prove it. Its impossible..

There is however a very good answer to whether or not the world exists though..

Here it goes.

"Come on, though."

Bam. Cuts right through the silliness.

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>>727815768

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>>727816036
>There is no way to tell if the world we live in ia real or not
>I don't believe in god, hurdur

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>>727821442
>too much internet

>>727815768
There's no way to know and it doesn't really matter if it does or not.

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>>727821199

You're a fucking retard.

>>727821380
Then by all means point out what was wrong with the statement. Oh you can't? That's what I fucking thought.

>>727815768
Exists yes real maybe we don't know

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Nothing you say can prove that you're real

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>>727821661
>>727821695
FUCKING PUNCTUATION!

>>727821661
>real
>>727821695
>real
>hurdur I no wot it means doh

>>727821602
why? there is a difference between justification and truth

>>727821589
Me or him?

>>727817538
>The world exists because you can touch it, smell it, feel it, taste it, see it.

You realize that you can only sense those things through your sensory organs, which filter how you perceive the world? Think of it as using a computer or a phone. to get your phone to do things you must interact with the operating system. You know that there is more to a computer than just that, there is lots of intricate math and systems working in the back end. It is the true reality. Your senses are the "operating system" of human life, while a must more complicated system works quietly in the back end.

Your senses are creating a false reality for you to exist in. They are not real.

>>727820346
What >>727820435 said.

By nothing mattering, it has impact, therefore it does matter, because it doesn't matter.

>>727822304
and can't you doubt your senses anyway? that was one of the first things descartes got rid of

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>>727821953

>>727821645
I've already pointed out what was wrong with the statement, anon.

>>727820189
>The context with which you were intending to give to the word, does need to be broken down
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that your first reply explaining what you meant, when you used the verb "exist" in a sentence, was this
>>727818139
Not until anyone called you out on it, did you walk it back and attempt to clarify what you meant, while claiming that in
>>727818139
You made it exceptionally clear, what you wanted it to mean, here
>>727818715
>nothing of my post says that you have to always be perceiving a given object for it to be real
But I already made reference to that, and pointed out what was wrong with your first reply:
>>727818139

>>727820189
>You can't be so vague and expect what you've typed to be self-explanatory
>In the way you were using it
>you most definitely need to break it down
And your faggot self decided to attempt to do just that, and better clarify after the fact, here
>>727818715

Even after that, you were going so mad, you didn't quite read any of my replies correctly.
>>727820425
>I was using it as a verb
>>727820558
>Nobody said you used a verb wrong
>>727820730
>I-I was not using the word correctly

What an exceptional individual.

>>727822304
Difference is that not obeying your senses in regard to danger will damage and kill you, meaning that the sensory input is valid.

I now how perception works you clown, I'm just not the worst guy in a freshman philosophy class like you are.

>>727822434
for example, its entirely justified that physicists use two contradictory theories (quantum mechanics and general relativity) to explain the universe, but since the two theories contradict each other they can't possibly both be true

so scientists are completely justified in holding a contradictory set of beliefs, which cannot be true

>>727819128
Doesn't work with nightmares and they're in your head

>>727822498
t. freshman

>>727822492
Try again but while being coherent and without sounding like a mental patient.

You can do it buddy :^)

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>>727822498
your senses create an illusion of danger to protect you since they were designed to keep the creature alive and reproducing.

Earth does not equal world. World through out the ages has meant cosmos, meaning everything including the social constructs we live within called society. Society is made up of seemingly infinite cultures even ones we think of in our imaginations. The fiction we see in art gradually with advancement becomes reality and reality is the real question. Is reality real?

Most often no, but because the mind feeds into is construct to believe in a reality we then fall into it as though it is real and our ego takes over and feeds into it to make it real and it is only as real as you allow it to be.

Wars are fraught, people have babies to feel immortal... all this means nothing but people fool themselveselve into believing this and just go with the flow and allow the world to wash over them passively just doing whatever, ....

>>727822947
Spoken like a true sheltered pussy who has never been hurt or in serious danger.

>>727822498
Your senses that tell you that damage has been done?

This is the sorta shit I said in the 5th grade, this thread is bringing back memories of my autism.

>>727822419
Descartes also tried to prove the existence of god.

>>727823134
lol he also thought that the pineal gland was the seat of the mind

but he is also one of the most influential thinkers in the history of western civilization

>>727823091
You know you can actually be seriously damaged right? You ignoring the perception that you have a broken bone or a head injury does nothing to negate its effects, because it actually happened to you.

>>727822907
Mental patients often carry on entirely different conversations with another person.

>>727820425
This is one such example.

>>727822625
Unless the rules change when you go down to quantum level.

A different set of rules apply. But both check out and add up fine in their own parameters.

The universe is weird as fuck. It doesnt care about our "these two must agree or else" rules. If it contradicts itself it contradicts itself.

On that note thats why they search for things like "unifying theory" something missing in the math or some new variable that makes them not contradict each other anymore.

They also know as well as you point out theyre really baffled and confused by it.

But the theory of relativity is still helping get your gps position right, and quantum mechanics is being used to make ultra accurate clocks, quantum computers, and some banks even use quantum encryption to make unimaginable secure transactions.

For two concepts that cant possibly be true because they contradict each other, theyre sure getting some great practical use from understanding both of them...

>>727815768
>no.

>>727823134
besides our senses are wrong all the time

light bends when it enters water for instance, so things appear distorted, even though we know its not the thing's true appearence

>>727823326
Sounds like you pal :). You are doing a lot of rambling..

>>727823326
Oh, and I might also mention that a mental patients have a lot of difficulty determining what is and isn't real. Now, who portrays that symptom in this conversation anon?

>>727823401
well any kind of rational scientific principle depends on the law of noncontradiction

if you can prove a contradiction you can prove anything, logically speaking

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>>727823460
>>727823664
At the moment, you're 5 for 5.

>>727823706
Eventually yes.

And theyll either find how theyre related and dont contradict each other, or they wont.

But as said.. The math works, and important practical usage is coming out of both of them.

Would you rather they just pick one and destroy all technology made from the other and abandon all research?

>>727823401
Actalally it doesn't
The Bose Singlet is the best theory that shows the future is shaping the past more often to make the present correct.

The collider at cern has actually been creating singlets since 2015 and now we have some people with fuzzy memories of the different versions of the past where Mandela dies in 1986 vs post melenia plus many other strange recollections. Thiamine is real .

>>727824020
lol im saying that holding contradictory beliefs IS justified sometimes

its just that contradictory beliefs can never be the truth, that is my whole point

justification does not equal truth

Interesting question was asked, everyone is throwing shit at each other ... never change /b/

>>727824145
Oh. Sorry.

I read "these scientists are justified" in bitch tone.

Thank god because i only barely know what im talking about enough to know that what i thought you meant was wrong.

▲
▲▲

>>727824626
if i see 100000000 swans that are all white im justified in saying "all swans are white"

but is it true?

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>>727824145

This fucking guy is the asshole at parties that sits by himself peeling labels off his non-alcoholic beer wondering why nobody talks to him. KYS asshole..

>>727824917
whats your problem?

Despite what "it's just a phase" faggot says, there is no definitive way to disprove solipsism. However if you live you life by that particular belief system, you don't really stand to gain anything. Plus, if you're wrong and solipsism isn't true then your life will likely end up being a short one.

>>727815768
Prove to me that I'm not in a coma

>>727825081
you could say that instead of the mind producing the world, the world produces the mind

that would disprove solipsism, if you could prove it

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>>727824976

Quite shitbird, no ones talking to you! Go back to peeling your label off your o'douls.

>>727825106
it seems like this all could be boiled down to the idea: "prove existence"

THE DEATHKNELL TO ALL SCIENCE:

"PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE THING"

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you simply open your eyes and get a job.
simple.
also, does an ant ask the same question?
no?
well there you have it.

>>727825226
n i g g e r e d

>>727826163
you've solved truth

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>>727818027
You get a C-

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>>727826195

>>727822694
as soon as you want to take control you wake up.

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>>727815768
>Prove me the world exists.
Literally can't be done

>>727825081
solipsism is stupid just like every other unfalsifiable system of belief

>>727826722
um well descartes uses the idea of an ethical god to prove the existence of the world (physical substance)

so he DOES prove that the world exists

>>727826837
but if you only believed in falsifiable beliefs, none of your beliefs could be true

>>727826874
That whole line of reasoning was dismantled shortly after. The overall legacy of cartesianism is skepticism.

>>727827173
lol the legacy of descartes is his cogito, his "foundationalism"

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>>727815768
who is asking the question?

>>727825715
Pretty much.

face it the reality is you are a brain in a jar

>>727827073
Not really. Not believing falsifiable beliefs means you're free of ideology

>>727827249
Foundationalism, JTB accounts of knowledge and Hume's work are the basis of contemporary skepticism

>>727827501
but truth isnt falsifiable, so if all your beliefs were falsifiable, you couldnt possible know the truth

right but thats hume and not descartes, descartes if anything, was an anti skeptic, since his method of doubt is eventually stopped by his most important part of his philosophy (i trust you know what it is)

I think it was Aristotle that said if you come to a problem where two solutions are possible, it is the most logical to believe in the side that makes the fewest assumptions. I have to assume very little to believe that what my mind, body, and senses are telling me is true, but to believe everything is lying to me about the world would make many assumptions. Therefore, the world exists.

>>727827706
no thats ockam's razor, aristotle never said anything like that

>>727827706
so youre saying that we should assume the world exists because it creates the least amount of assumptions?

>>727815768
Hold your breath for as long as you can, do it until you pass out. if you wake up the awful hellish world we live in exists and if you dont wake up you'll find yourself in a most exotic place that by no definition of a word can describe what it is.

>>727827706
the problem with ockam's razor is that it only says "remove as many premises to the argument as possible"

it doesnt say which premises to remove

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>>727817254
It's number 1 for a reason.

>>727827806
We have to assume at least one thing because nothing can be proven, so yes.

>>727827751
Yeah go fuck yourself with that razor, Aristotle's mah boi

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>>727827959

This fucktard is still at it? Jesus Christ man, put some alcohol in your person and get a personality, you're a unfunny boring fuck all.

>>727827687
>truth isnt falsifiable
theories are falsifiable. some of them turn out to be true

This entire discussion is taken out by newton's flaming laser sword. If you can't test it, it's not worth discussing.

>>727828371
"Oh man, I just KNOW this will be funny the eighteenth time! Now they'll appreciate me for sure!"

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>>727828490
/thread
he made all you humanities niggas blush shiiieeet

>>727828208
ouch, everything sounds like a Pyrrhic victory

>>727828285
lol i was just saying who thought of the idea

>>727828445
truth is always true, but when we recognize something to be true universally it automatically "becomes" unfalsifiable (since truth is not falsifiable)

>>727828490
t. cucked by scientism

>>727828490
but matter is the foundation of science, you can't test the existence of matter, but it of course is still important to talk about

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>>727828537

>>727828490
even the idea of "testing" or "proof" can't be tested, logic can't be tested, but all of those things are probably worth discussing (depending on who you are i guess)

>>727828817
I'm just bringing it in because I saw the discussion turning to use razors. So if you're gonna use one, why not apply that one as well?
I'm actually enjoying this discussion, kinda just said that to see the response.

>>727828490
Ahem
>religion
>decisions based on assumptions
>morality in general
>ideals and values
>theories
Hurr, this question is hard and requires imagination and effort, I better give up whilst I still have the chance

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>>727822341
How does something, by definition having no impact, have impact?

>>727828611
>truth is always true
sure. my point is you could still hold true beliefs if you only believe in falsifiable statements. they could be the truth even though their current status is of falsifiable theory

>>727828939
I haven't been in the discussion. Any input I would have had has already been said, so I didn't want to be redundant.
Like I said earlier, I'm actually enjoying this discussion.

>>727828928
that type of thinking is actually a powerful philosophical method, called positivism, the idea that "science can really tell us about the world"

positivism is an outdated idea, nowadays everyone prefers falsifiability

>>727829017
their current status would also be "truth", because truth is always true

if you believed in a theory that was thought to be falsifiable, but was actually the truth, then belief was always a true belief

the status of "falsifiable" changes and not the status of "truth", since the truth is always true

>>727815768
Put your hand in a bucket of ice water for 25 minutes.
Take it out and smack your fingernail on something very hard.
Your welcome.

>>727829011
How do you, having no personality, function in society?

>>727829017
its as simple as saying

"all falsifiable statements are capable of being false"

"the truth is not capable of being false"

"therefore no falsifiable statements are the truth"

>>727829438
Take a shower in gasoline and play with matches.

You're welcome.

>>727818034
Thanks, O'Brien

Although while I'm putting in my opinion, I'm of the belief that the world only exists through human perception, so for all we know it could be completely different than the way we see it. In fact, it IS different, since there's colors and other sensory input that humans can't perceive.
I don't doubt that the world exists, but it's mostly a hopeful thing that everything around me isn't just a figment of my imagination. I think it's a very human thing to want to matter, even if it's in a significant way, so we have to almost have a religious belief that what we see as the world, the universe, and everything in it exists.

I would rather ask the question, "If the universe doesn't exist, does that make life not worth putting forth effort? What we've come to accept as reality is all we know and possibly all we will ever know. So does it really make a difference if we find it to be reality or just our imaginations?"

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>>727829445
By getting dubs

>>727829833
Oh shit nigga

>>727826305
The c is for Complete success!

>>727829264
>>727829593
theories are falsifiable meanwhile truth isn't
someone can hold beliefs about the validity (truthness) of any said theory
the epistemic status of said belief is tied to a point in time. what you believe to be true could irrevocably be discarded as evidence to the contrary is presented. meanwhile it lies in a grey area where its truthness is unknown
while truth can never be proven false, a belief about the falsifiability of a statement that is, unbeknownst to the believer, true can be held

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We are having this conversation right now. That's proof. You wouldn't say these things to yourself in a dream. People don't dream in a coma. Right? Don't be silly. It's blackness. Just like death.

>>727829833
Too bad it didn't help your sex life, permavirgin

>>727830119
validity is not truth, validity is proper form

when an argument is valid it has proper form but not necessarily true premises (deductively speaking)

>>727830271
come on, i didn't mean validity in that sense
let me rephrase: someone can hold beliefs about the truthness of any said theory

>>727830397
>>727830397
right but if the theory is true, it was always true

i dont really understand your point to be honest, im sorry

>>727815768
I think therefore I am.

>itt: anons discuss how and why philosophy is useless

>>727830651
thats only proving that THOUGHT exists

>>727830686
we are like socrates, luring the unsuspecting citizens of athens to their dooms!

>>727830686
In this post an anon shows what a faggot he is

>>727830645
>the theory is true, it was always true
correct, but it was still falsifiable while theory. its truth status was still unknown

it doesn't.

>>727830746
>thats only proving that THOUGHT exists
it also proves you (a being) exists

>>727830857
when i say falsifiable i dont mean it in terms of what it appears to us, i mean things that are literally falsifiable in themselves, ie CAPABLE of being false

when we dont know the status of truth, it doesnt affect truth, truth remains constant whether we know it or not

>>727830964
ya you got me

but descartes did believe that the mind was more fundamental than the body

>>727830976
I don't believe falsifiability refers to things-in-themselves but rather our perception of them as falsifiable, right?

>>727818139
Piece of fucking shit faggot reddit tier neckbearding cuck, checkmate faggot haha contradicted yourself you fucking dipshit

>>727818034
yes

>>727831164
uh you're opening a can of worms, because no on really knows if we see things "as they are" or merely "as they appear"

to keep it simple i just meant referring to actual things as they are, ie non idealism (idealism is the idea that things appear to us only through our perception of them, not as they really are)

>>727816684
Explain

>>727817538
Elaborate

Is this a flat earth thread? We are in a test tube.

>>727831711
its similar isnt it? lol

threads like these could be named:

"answering the demands of the skeptic"

>>727831620
he's saying that since you can sense the world it must exist

pretty simple

>>727831352
We see a representation of things as they are.
Get into sign relations, biosemiotics its implication on the evolution of sensation, it's a no brainier, nothin personal kid

>>727831944
thats certainly one side of it, but lots of people want to get rid of the idea of the "thing in itself" (ie the abolishment of idealism)

>>727831816
Yeah semiosis and evolution BTFO this solpsist redonkuli ever day. Pragmatic truth is the only way to go, anything else is EXTERMELY BE PATIENT

>>727815768
I think therefore I am, I'm only capable of proving to myself, that I exist. I cannot forward that service to you.

File: Touched By His Noodly Appendage.jpg (86KB, 600x347px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 600x347px

>>727821518
I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Go outside

>>727832249
thats easy enough for most people, but some people say that we can doubt our senses, since they are not always right

>>727832363
nietzsche?