Do you believe in god?

I dont know.

>>727681836
Yup, because I'm smart.

>>727681836
Unquestionably yes

>>727681955
It's okay. Opinions can be hard.

>>727681836
Yes, He will bless you beyond your wildest dreams if you stop sinning

by god i believe it to be the creative, conciousness responsible for existence. thats as deep as i will try to define it.

what i am doubtful about is whether we humans mean anything to god. i.e. whether there is consciousness after we die. id like to think so, but i cannot be convinced of it.

Gods existence doesn't matter

If it exists, so does fate and we have no choice but to follow his plan
If it doesn't, no matter what we do doesn't matter

Define god.

Yes. Death is too scary and messed up.
Human brains can't handle 42.

>>727682158
What if I don't want to be blessed? This NOT a phase
YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD

>>727682060
kek

>>72768183
i love him. i cant do something when i dont believe in god

>>727681836
If by God you mean energy and nature then yes I do.

>>727681836
it is important for humans to believe in something greater than themselves.

look at any group of humans anywhere in the world at any time in history.

I believe in God and I believe in the resurrection of the dead through Jesus Christ.

>>727681836
yes

>>727682280
You mean your brain

>you can't have pissing orgies or scat parties in heaven

Why would anyone want to go there?

>>727681836
God is dead. If somehow god is alive, I'll kill it or die trying.

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>>727681836
I do anon. I know I shouldn't be on here neither.
It's become a habit at this point.

>>727681836
I haven't seen sufficient evidence of his/her/its existence to believe in him/her/it.
The only thing I've seen evidence of, is the existence of various different religions, but deciding which one is correct if any, is beyond me right now.

>>727681836
Yes

>>727681836

kek

Fuck no

>>727681836
Yes.

yes but I define it differently than the religious God. I think there is an eternal consciousness though. I don't think intervenes though. I think it's lost in our stories.

>>727682163

Of course there is consciousness after you die.

It's impossible to experience your nonexistence. Just like this time, you'll come back into existence without even being aware of how many years you weren't here.

If nonexistence was forever, we wouldn't be here.

>>727683163
>implying you're not only 12

No. I'm not an idiot.

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>>727681836
Hell, no.

>>727684630
And when humanity finally goes extinct? Then what?

>>727681836
nah, I feel like the grandeur of nature could not possibly be intentional, also there are some animals that are clearly the product of over evolution to the point where they fuck up if something goes slightly off plan, see cats, also creatures that exist basically without purpose because they're basically reproductive existence machines, see the sunfish.
it makes sense that things are the way they are without guidance, that's how I see it
>>727684442
does one world really need that many trade centres?

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>>727684844

Good on you, anon, for not being a blind sheep.

Also, nice dubs.

>>727684910

You obviously didn't understand my post.

We weren't always here to begin with, yet here we are now after 13.7 billion years. That same amount of time, or more, or less, could go by and you wouldn't even know it.

Like I said, if nothingness was forever then that's exactly how it would be. Seeing as how we came out of the very nothingness we're going back into after death, it's safe to assume we'll come right back out of it.

Also, I never said you'd be conscious as a human again. Consciousness can't be snuffed out.

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>>727682163
Speaking for OP

The bible speaks of us to be made in his likeness or image.

I do try to be as rationale as possible. I did come to the conclusion that God does exist. But through personal experiences.

>Pentecostal Christian since 3
>Former Non-Believer
>Crappy Christian (WE ALL ARE)

Ask me anything

>>727684630
we have no proof to back up what you said. nothing solid, at least. thats why its called faith.

>>727685337
>Consciousness can't be snuffed out.
What are black holes? What is dark matter?

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>>727681836
yes, but I "picture it" like an architect, mathematician, chemist, physicist. have no shape and it doesn't control the humanity.
I don't believe in heaven or hell, I believe that we are made of particles that never die and our conscience or soul it's pure energy and following the law of conservation of energy, our "soul" cannot be destroyed but it can be transformed to something else.

>>727681836
Of course not, OP.

You can ask any theist to provide definitive proof and the only thing they'll provide is words and a book that was written over and over again throughout history.

Hardly anything substantial, unless you're a dimwit.

>>727685342
Have you read any other religious books?
How do you know you've made the right choice?

I believe in life after love

>>727681836
nope

>>727685533
I'm more on your side here but man, what the fuck do black holes and dark matter have to do with anything?

>>727685533

You don't understand.

We came out of the very "nothingness" we're going into, if that was to last forever then we wouldn't be existing right now to begin with.

Us being alive is proof enough that nonexistence isn't forever like people claim it is.

>>727685342
appreciate your willingness to discuss this stuff, but i think it just comes down to personal opinion. my thoughts are if you can find a belief that you are comfortable holding, then fine. good for you.

its tempting to jump in headfirst to organized religion and feel assured of immortality, but many people feel that is ingenuine.

i am interested to know what turned you from a non-believer to a believer

>>727681836
Not sure tbh, no side has me totally convinced.

>>727685463

Yes, I have faith, just not in the religious sense.

>>727685820
If nothing doesn't exist you can't come "out" of it, tard.

no but if there is a god he will for give me for think that there is not a god but i just think that what goes goes and luck is luck

>>727685557
cat didnt have much of an appetite did it

>>727686001
>what is reading comprehension

I didn't say "nothing" in the sense of no thing. I said the nothingness that we are going into, son.

There was obviously something here before our birth. Also, our Universe is proof enough that "nothingness" isn't forever, because it's claimed it popped out of it just as we did.

There's always going to be something, rather than nothing.

Science can resolve the question. There was a big bang, here we are 13.7By later as a collection of particles evolved to be the best in our habitat. In some time sun will explode, earth wil be no more. universe will cool down, nothing will be able to exist. the answer is DONT THINK ABOUT IT

>>727685820
your mistake is the belief that consciousness as we experience it is anything special, we're just mechanisms that recreate themselves then break down, our 'lives' just come to an end, they don't go into hibernation and come back later

fuck that guy

>>727682255
something out of our nature, knows no time, have neither beggining or end, created several universes and dimensions, can be everywhere at the same time, no human shape (because it's outside of our understanding), doesn't control humans, but it can control gravity and time therefore, this god can choose which planet have life and which it doesn't.

I am God!
Before Washington was, I am !

>>727686630

"Can there be absolute nothingness" is really 2 separate questions I would think, as follows:

1- First, can there ever have been absolute nothingness, i.e. if there had never been a universe the way we know it to begin with, and
2- Given that something now exists, or equivalently has existed at some point, can it ever be that full nothingness can re-establish itself at some point.

Tackling question number 2 first - There is no credible mechanism for full dissipation of what is (at any arbitrary point in time when something happens to be).
The only way to reach full nothingness would be to dilute everything to a fully vanishing point, but then because of infinitesimal residuals all the conditions extant to create at least one element term of the Heisenberg equation would be there - thus immediately giving rise to quantum foam, which would by definition not be pure nothingness. It's too late for pure nothingness to ever exist

Which leads us to the first question: Could there ever have been full nothingness.

Pure abstract mathematics however demonstrates that the Heisenberg relationship is inescapable in any universe, including a void universe (its ensemble of conjugate attributes being a perhaps infinite collection of 2-element sets). Heisenberg will however always give rise to 'quantum foam' - i.e., to something.

Therefore the question can be equivalently reformulated as : Can it be that abstract mathematics cannot exist independently of some material support.
Or equivalently: Can it be that abstract mathematics is not fully abstract. This seems to be a logical inconsistency, and therefore it must be answered in the negative.
Therefore, going back up the chain, we can safely conclude that pure nothingness cannot possibly exist.

Our Universe may be regarded as experimental proof.

You live a sad life if you really think the consciousness that we experience is anything but special.

>>727686586
the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, which is interesting, because it seems to shut down the idea that eventually all matter in the universe will fall back together and form another big bang

but since the universe is expanding at an increaseing rate... you see where this is going. crazy stuff.

>>727681836
No. I think that whatever is behind the universe is way beyond anything our brains will ever figure out though.

>>727686586
but you have the preconceived believe that we live on the only habitable planet in this huge and vast universe.
As well you are considering that human race may be able to travel across stars some time within the next 100 years or so.
we could migrate to other planets billions of years before the sun goes super nova

>>727681836
yes

If god exist then I'm going to kick his ass and become the new god

>>727682158
Like how he blesses the african children?

>>727687168
1. I never said the universe will come to an end and fall into nothingness, the matter in your body will stick around forever in a way

2. life is just a complex arrangement of chemical interactions that will one day end and there is no reason to believe anything will ever form to be 'you' ever again

3. I am quite happy not believing that my existence is 'special' for no distinguishable reason

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>>727687708

>>727687168
I want add something here.

Consciousness is the presence of the ability to experience life (senses, emotions, perceptions, thoughts, etc.). Death is the absence of consciousness (inability to experience those senses). Going by this simple logic it would seem that all conscious things are fated to be immortal.

If one cannot experience death, then how does one die? The body may die, consciousness itself may end… but a conscious being cannot experience the absence of consciousness, therefore making this being immortal.

To further develop this idea, Think about what it is that you are. You are not your body, you are whatever it is (the mind, the soul, the ether) that experiences the experiences of the body. You are the awareness of self, you think therefore you are. You can’t experience “non-experience”, hence why you have no recollection of all those billions of years before you were born.

Basically, to put your consciousness on a timeline: you are all the parts where you are alive… if there is reincarnation, alternate dimensions, or whatever… you can only be the living parts. As soon as your body dies, consciousness is cut off… you don’t experience this period, if your consciousness is ever to be reconnected to a body, you would experience this right away. You can’t experience “non-experience”.

It's really not hard to grasp.

>>727687708
Oh shit, fat Kratos is in da house.

>>727687912

Please keep going, what you're saying is all very interesting.

>>727687860

I never said your existence is special, the consciousness that you experience your existence in is, though.

yes GOD does exist

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>>727685597
I actually have, like the Quaron and the Satanic bible. Satanic bible more of a guideline. I spent a lot of time with the occult in my younger days because I wanted to be impressed, to see something visible.

>>727685821
I believe in my faith through experiences with God.
It started with my entire world collapsing.
>Mother passes away
>Father lands in prison
>All 4 of my younger siblings taken by the state
>deadinside.jpg
>Drug addictions
>Loneliness
>Girlfriend walks out
>Living with strangers

I craved something more out of life. Spoke to God on and off for a month every morning.

Started having sleep paralysis in dreams. Felt as if something didn't want to leave me.

I go to some church camp. Didn't want to be there really. Some girl whom I've never met, runs up to me and begins explaining why I went through what I've gone through.

Also several incidents like this I don't mind sharing.

All I'm saying is you can read the entire bible back and forth but you won't truly believe until you try is what I'm saying.

>>727687912
it's pretty easy to come to what look like logical conclusions when you don't fully understand what you're extrapolating from

>>727687912
for the lazy ones:

law of conservation of energy, we have an "electrical circuit" inside us, that energy that keep us alive therefore the consciousness it self cannot be destroyed, but can be transformed

Why not?

>>727688309
How about non abrahamic books?
Like norse gods, greek pantheon, the Bhagavad Gita, stuff like that?
If you stay within the same family of religion, you haven't really looked around much.

>>727688117
I suppose it's special in some ways but my point is that there's no actual reason to think it's caused by anything other worldly or some kind of greater power, it's just a collection of lots of tiny things that come together to make something so complex we don't really understand it fully
any assumption that 'because it's so special it MUST be something more' is completely baseless

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>>727688033

Here is a simple picture depicting your life (the black line) and the two circles representing your birth and death. The colored areas (no-thing's) represent ceasing to exist. It is important that you understand that when I use the term no-thing in this post, I am literally refering to NO form of any kind and NO consciousness. Why is there no-thing before you were born? Remember, you believe that you will cease to exist when you die, therefore it would be quite absurd of you to believe that before you were born, you were alive. Therefore, before you were born there exists the same conditions --in fact non-conditions since no-thing (ceasing to exist) has no properties, but we will look at that later-- which exist after you die. In other words, the no-thingness before your birth and after your death are the exact same thing. how could "they" be different when they don't have properties? This leads me to the main point itself...

...If, after your death you are in the same situation of so-called non-existance as before your birth, then the absolute truth is that you will be reborn again, because you were born out of that no-thingness already. Here you are, you're alive. out of the same no-thing you will go into, you have come out of, for no apparent reason at all. Therefore, that implies you will live forever as one form or another, or as pure consciousness.

I didn't make this pic, btw. I just added an explanation for it

>>727688966

I agree, I don't believe in a god, much less that we're made by one, but that doesn't change the fact that I believe the consciousness that we experience is forever.

>>727688309
You had a rough go for a while huh.

Imm glad you made it through in one piece. take care.

>>727688560

explain then, I'm here to learn what other people believe as much as I like to share what I believe.

>>727688677

Exactly.

>>727688936
No I suppose not. I'd definitely like to study more. Not really for theological discussions but just to know more about people's personifications of who or what they believe is God to them.

I can only elaborate on what I believed was to be the other side of the spectrum of christianity.

>>727688677
Pure horse shit. That's like saying my computer's OS cannot be destroyed because it's an emergent property of the structure and electrical workings of my computer.

If I smash my computer, its operating system won't go to OS heaven, it'll just cease to be...

>>727687912
Hmm I suppose I understand what you're saying. But what is the point of even dying to experience, or not experience, death?

>>727688309
So in order to get religion. I have to lose one parent to death, the other to the legal system, have my siblings taken away and have a drug issue.
For some reason end up in a church and just as I'm at my most vulnerable, someone tells me that god had a reason for all of this?
I'm sorry you had to go through all of that anon.
But if I were to be convinced, I'd rather have it happen while I'm not in tons of emotional distress, so I know they actually convinced me instead of predating on me.

>>727687080
>knows no time
>created
pick one

Creation implies change implies time, therefore creation independent of time is nonsense.

You theists have gotta start refining your arguments, anon.

Yes, because I'm hoping you all go
to Hell

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>>727689973

lol you're an idiot. a computer isn't conscious, therefore you can't compare that to what we experience.

>>727689884
I really like the polytheistic religions, their stories are full of drama and interpersonal strife and love stories. They're kind of neat that way. But once you've read about one of them, you'll recognize a similar mold for all of the others.

>>727689394
Yeah man it was a tough time.
Anybody who asks me how I've gotten through it expect some typical answer. But I can only give credit to the one who got me through it.

And no I'm not trying to sell anybody anything, it's simply what worked for me. I encourage anyone to try speaking to God. If something else gets you through life by all means, live and let live.

You are literally retarded if you think it is even possible that humans have souls and/or that gods exist lmao @ your "life"

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>>727690168
lol you're the idiot, ass burger. The point went completely over your head.

Consciousness is analogous to an OS, since both are emergent phenomena dependent on the arrangement and electro-chemical workings of a physical structure like a brain or a computer.

Try to do some actual thinking before spewing your autism again.

I am the second coming of Christ, but I need money. Like... a million dollars to build a spiritual community suitable for meditation and a righteous lifestyle.

Too bad know one believes in me.

>>727681836
I do, definitely are powers of good and evil and unexplainable things like miracles

>>727690419
if your brain didn't reach this conclusion by the time you were about 10 you have a SHIT BRAIN

>>727690525
Make wine and repopulate the oceans with fish after buying stocks in fishing companies, you'll get your money in no time.

>>727689973
have you ever heard of singularity?
...no?
well that explains a lot, computers don't have any consciousness (yet).

>>727681836
Yes, I do.

>>727690669
see >>727690434

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>>727689267
why though? where does your 'consciousness' is some kind of thing that can stick around of it's own accord? It's the result of things interacting, it itself isn't a thing
>>727689472
pic related is an example of poorly extrapolated logic that would make sense to some people.
the logical conclusion you've made makes sense given your logical arguments but that means we have to assume the arguments are true. Life is very complex and nobody fully understands it and a lot of people assign certain truths to it in their beliefs with basically no evidence, it just feels right.
I believe the main flaw in your argument is the idea that, just because your consciousness can't experience it's end, doesn't mean it can't end. Just because it's existence is based around experiencing things doesn't mean that things it doesn't experience can't affect it.
There's also the idea that your consciousness is somehow something that 'exists' in of itself, where in reality I would say that it's simply a result of chemical interactions

No I don't but Pascal's Wager makes me kinda wish I could convince myself otherwise.

you know how obvious it is that scientology is BS

that's how obvious it needs to be to you that there are no "gods" or "spirits" before you become a teenager

otherwise your brain is dog shit

fucking kill yourselves you zilches

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>>727681836

>>727690971
>Pascal's Wager

Have you seriously not heard the refutations to that? GIt gud.

>>727688677
for one 'conservation of energy' isn't actually true and more importantly if all the electrons sparking in your head to form 'you' disperse out into the void to do their own shit when you die, the energy is still being conserved

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>>727681836

>>727681836
Think of it like this

If you program a computer character in a simulation and you give the character artificial intelligence, how would it know you, the creator, exist without telling it?

I believe we are in a simulation, created by a programmer we call "God" originally before we had the science to understand simulations, we just thought about it as spirit.

I believe the simulation we are in has different laws of physics than the real world where our creator resides, and we cannot find this creator with the laws of this simulation any more than pac-man or Link in legend of zelda could locate us using his limited programming.

so yes I believe in god. I believe Jesus Christ was an administrator who used cheat codes to walk on water and duplicate food as well as resurrect the dead.

It all makes sense when technology exists, before technology it was all nonsense.

>>727690273
Definitely interesting reads. I've read about dieties and they're roles in history. Nothing in depth which is why I didn't bother mentioning.

I know that most of these guys depended on their Gods for the crops to grow and crap like that.

>>727691423
"there is no way I could possibly know this so I'm going to believe it"

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I go to a Kingdom Hall 3 times a week.
>Thursday meeting
>Sunday meeting
>Personal bible study with a 'famous' elder
Always been atheist. GF left the religion but went back to it cuz her parents are die hard Witnesses. I went to a convention here in the Bay Area and was blown away by their manners and organization. It made me wonder why they're so nice and so professional. What's more is that all of them were doing all the convention work voluntarily - no pay. Also, they're one of the few religions who don't pass around a jar expecting to be paid. That's why I'm attending.
DO / DONT believe in God. I dunno at this point. They're just the happiest people i've ever seen and I kinda want a slice of that life.

>>727690922

just like me, you don't know either. it's all speculation even if some if it is backed by our current understandings of it.

Like I said in both of my posts that you responded to, if you can't experience your own death, you're sure to experience something else.

Our existence is proof enough.

>>727681836
Yeah

>>727691570
There is no way you could know there is no god, so why do you believe it? Your argument is self reflective

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>>727681836

>>727691603
except it's not, your statements are completely baseless

>>727691665
"Y-you can't DISprove it either!!"

Really anon?

>>727691665
I could make up a billion random fucking things you could not possibly disapproves, believing in them would still make me a moron

>>727682732
You mean the groups known for genocide and oppression of scientific progress and free expression. Yeah those are definitely examples of why believing in something greater is a good thing.

Unless your talking about some form of spiritual pacifism or just the idea of something being simply more important than yourself, then yeah it could be debated as important.

>>727691479
Well a lot of now christian pastimes, came from pagan fertility rituals. Christmas was the winter solstice and was about getting the sun to come back, so more crops could grow and animals be bred.
Easter was the celebration of Eostre, who were a female fertility goddess, hence all of the eggs and references to bunnies.
The summer celebration of saint juan, was the summer solstice and the mark of the days getting darker again.

>>727691578
Believing crazy bullshit tends to make people really happy?

You don't say?

>>727690434

You also don't understand that a computer is nothing like the human brain.

We experience consciousness, that consciousness will go away, but into what? The exact same thing that we were not experiencing before our birth.

All you know is reality, it happened, no matter how small the chance was. You don't know what it's like to not exist and you never will, none of us will, it's impossible to experience non existence, or else it wouldn't be called that.

Try thinking outside the box, bucko.

>>727681836
no evidence

>>727692049
>what could happen to the random particles inside my head
>the exact same thing over again probably
>thinking outside the box
right

>>727692049
>We experience consciousness, that consciousness will go away, but into what?

Where will my OS go if I break my computer? You still don't understand the point I was making. That, or you realize how accurate the analogy is and the cognitive dissonance is killing you right now.

>You don't know what it's like to not exist and you never will, none of us will

lol and? How is that relevant to my argument? The only one who's said consciousness "can't be destroyed" is you, or the person I responded to that you're defending.

>Try thinking outside the box, bucko.
>what is projection?

>>727691811

Our existence is baseless?

Wew lad

You have no reason to believe that after we die, we cease. You have every reason to believe that after we die, even after some time, we will come back through consciousness. Not who You are right this second, but as the consciousness that makes you who you are.

Regardless, I'm not going to sway your beliefs just like you can't mine.

>>727691975
Eh. Its more of principles.
Most religions say alcohol and stuff is bad. JW's believe you can have it in MODERATION. Regardless, all their 'rules' are for the better anyway. Everything is positive. That's why I do it

>>727692113
No loving God would ever send anyone to an eternity of suffering, no matter what they did. They'd simply be put to sleep forever. Peaceful.
Hell does not exist.

>>727692263

Once again, it won't be You as you are now, it's damn near impossible to recreate the exact you, but it clearly isn't impossible for consciousness to keep continuing after we die as it happens with every new person who is born.

>>727691878
Jesus =/= God
Jesus was His first creation. Before ANYTHING else. They were together for billions of years doing who knows what before they made Earth

>>727692609
>implying God sends you there

>>727692364
>our existence is baseless
that's not what I said
the point is your argument relies on a lot more assumptions than mine

>>727690091
I can see why thats an initial reaction to all of this. But I feel totally different from that time. I wouldn't consider myself distressed or completely dismantled human being. I do believe there are simpler ways. But believe me, through all of this I could see my life through a entire different lens. I don't believe God does things like this to be cruel. It's more like, "take a step for me and i'll pull you through this life". I'm actually super grateful for that experience.

But quick update to today to see what I mean.
>Dad got released and soon to regain custody
>Currently in talks from a girl I met in that camp
>Living happily in home with good friends
>At peace knowing someday I'll see my mom again

>>727692703
If he was pre-made, how did he get born again from a woman all of a sudden?

>>727692735

He does, if he existed that is.

>>727692364
Not the guy you responded to but I'll chime in.

>You have no reason to believe that after we die, we cease

Actually...yeah we do. We know for a fact that consciousness is directly and predictably altered by changes to the structure and chemical activity of the brain. You give someone a particular drug, you'll know, generally, the type of experience it will give them. You damage part of someone's brain - say in a car accident - and the nature of their altered cognition can be linked directly to the alteration in the region of their brain that the accident caused.

Given this fact, and how deeply the relatively new field of science concerning the brain has already understood these links, it's simply irrational to believe that upon death - when the ENTIRE brain shuts down - that we can expect to float off to some ethereal realm where we'll get to meet up with grandma and still speak English...

>>727692658
no it doesn't? each 'consciousness' is new and starts right then and there, it's not continuing from anything

>>727692703
so you're not a christian?

>>727692427
And what, you think it's impossible to teach such principles to people not enveloped in the belief in supernatural bullshit?

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>>727691423
>Jesus Christ was an administrator who used cheat codes to walk on water and duplicate food as well as resurrect the dead.

>>727692828
But if you had decided to spend the same time you used in that camp, to go live by the ocean and swim or something, the outcome would have likely been the same. Going to that camp, albeit it was probably the support you needed, doesn't really have a causal link with those things happening.

Only people with schygofrenia believe in fiction. There's no difference between santa and god. It's called an believe for a reason. You can't even take the word serious tbh

>>727691665
Omnipotence paradox leaves no room for the typical Christian/Catholic etc version of a god to exist in any logic obeying space. Not to say a higher power is impossible in a logic obeying space just not the kind put forward by most major religions.

>>727692797

What I do know for a fact is that you, nor I, nor anyone who has ever lived and passed will experience our own nonexistence, that's impossible.

So my only conclusion, with me being here right this second as evidence, is that reality is all we can ever experience, because if the nothingness after our death (which is the same as before our birth) was forever like it's claimed, then that's exactly how it would be.

But here we are.

>>727691920
Yeah thats exactly why these things get put under debate in churches. Some people do christmas and halloween some don't. I personally don't care for it. I don't find one day a year to be thankful for life. But you're absolutely right about the pagan rituals. In the bible even those who have seen miracles still worshipped pagan gods. Just goes to show.

>>727693226
What omnipotence paradox?

>>727681836
Yes, my parents tought me. Also i listen to christian dubstep bcs Im cool

>>727692992
There's different branches of Christianity.

>>727692900

>some ethereal realm where we'll get to meet up with grandma and still speak English...

First off, I never said this, nor do I think or believe that.

I simply stated that consciousness clearly continues to keep happening after we have died, hence people being born into consciousness.

>>727693488
kek

>>727692844
Earth was rotten and needed saving or God would've wiped us out. Again.
So, Jesus, formerly known as the Arch Angel Michael, volunteered to do what Adam and Eve (both perfect humans) failed to do.
So Jesus, God's most precious creation, was sent to Earth in the form of a baby. He even took on the name that Mary gave him.

Yes, but not from an Abrahamical perspective. I was raised strict-Orthodox Muslim. Father was a Imam(Mosque leader) but i gave up on the simplistic notion of God being a sadistical control freak. We are all God.

>>727681836
Yes I believe in JesusChrist and his teachings.

>>727693341
It means to me, that all religions have the same amount of validity really. They all make claims, but I don't really see any evidence for any of them.
I think they are interesting, but I don't think I'll ever be religious.

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>>727681836

In ayZezus we Trust.

>Is this a "good" "spelling"?

Nah.

Why would my life be so awful if God was looking out for me?

>>727693615
>consciousness clearly continues to keep happening after we have died, hence people being born into consciousness.

lol wut? How the fuck does that follow? You honestly believe that the emergence of consciousness is a newly-formed human brain somehow proves the continuing of consciousness after death?

Nonsense, but hey, I'm willing to hear you out.

>>727693690

>Implying the development of those vaccines weren't the result of prayers.

>>727693699
Interesting.
People actually think this explains how our world works though?

>>727693869
*consciousness in a newly-formed

>>727693880
kek

Its not possible to disprove or prove. A story book is not proof.

>>727681836
100% no

>>727681836
NO AND YOU SHOULDN'T

>>727693699
True question why do they think Arch Angel Michael is JesusChrist ?
heard it somewhere, because somewhere in the bible it says JesusChrist was present when everything was created heard in a Christian Bible, the Catholic is different, also the Jehova Witnesses.
Im Catholic but it got me sorta confused.

>>727693521
if your belief isn't that jesus is God, then it isn't christian, literally by definition

>>727693905
Believe me it has cured me of lots of diseases, you should try it sometime.

I don't care if there's a god or not. I believe people should spend their time doing something more productive

>>727681836
Do you belive in Spiderman?

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>>727693998

>>727694037
Case: closed.

I don't believe in god I believe in goddess, I don't believe in prayer but believe in worship, I don't believe in destiny but I can feel luck, I don't believe in people cause they don't give a fuck

>>727681836
I will answer that with a question

Do you believe in mayonnaise?

Because i do

But mayonnaise does not know it's mayonnaise

I give it its name because i can see and taste and touch and masturbate with it.

You cant do that with god

dont believe in god

if you do, you're dumber than your parents

and thats dumb

especially your mom is dumb

>>727693998
What if it was the voice of God in the Gospel.
What if you couldn't hear his brilliance?
His wonderful rationality, and sense of justice and morality.
What if you missed it?
What if Pascal was right all along?
What if your blasphemy has caused irreparable harm to God?
Wouldn't that be an eternal nightmare?

>>727694310
That tiny merchant in the bottom left corner.
Kek.

I saw Flying Lotus at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

>>727694236
for realz. one time I caught the clap from this slutty nun. prayed for the G-man to get rid of it and it was gone the next morning! praise Him!

>>727694383
>circular reasoning
typical christians

>>727693096
I mentioned that I'm a crappy christian for a reason. Nobody is perfect. Eventually we deviate from the path and try our own ways. So thats what I did. Nothing you find afterwards will be better. You'll always desire that experience again. It's very surreal. Mind you the camp wasn't the only experience I've had. I've dispelled demons, have had prophetic dreams that revealed future events in my life, I've been broke and given money out of nowhere from strangers through just prayer. I believe in a God that looks out for me when I get close.

>>727693488
fucking kek
>>727693904
I've been in and out of religions. Jehovah's Witnesses are by far the kindest people who expect NOTHING from you.
Yes. This is a huge, HUGE factor in how the world works.
Taking the example of Job; he was living a very happy life. Then Satan challenges God to a bet - that Job would curse God to his face after he takes everything away from him. God, being confident in Job, agreed to this bet. So Satan kills off Job's family, his numerous cattle, takes away EVERYTHING from him and tortures him with a skin disease that riddled him with boils.
Job never knew of the bet. He even thought that God was the one doing this to him, yet, despite all the suffering, he stayed loyal.
This is an example of the supposed test we're going through now. We are supposedly near the end time, aka the Last Days, and we are being given a chance to decide to follow God on our own. Satan's influence being everywhere, media, social life, entertainment everywhere, it's obvious why everyone believes that God isn't real. Kinda cool when you think about it.
But yeah dude. There's so much to learn and by far the Jehovah's Witnesses seem to be the religion for me. Too fucking bad I'm on 4chan.

>>727681836
I believe in a being that has achieved full knowledge of the universe and I don't know if it actually has a name, but that's my idea of "God"

>>727694488
>identity issues

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>>727694236
>Believe me
I think not!

>>727694201
you're an idiot

>>727694484
I certainly wouldn't want to believe in God if I were you.
It might be the more cautious and rational decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez1rWBPznEc

change your life nigger

It just leads to other things, like pedo, so, like, no.

That is a thing, I heard. Gateway to harder, stiffer, more pastoral peckerwooding. So, no.

How could I love a guy, too, cuz that's ghey like as ghey as it ghets.

>>727694529
The story disproves an all-powerful, all-good god, since a good being capable of relieving suffering would do so. The story is an attempted rationalization of misfortune, the existence of which demonstrates the absence of guidance. All a religionist can do is pretend that a good being tolerates suffering, which isn't true.

>>727694744
I certainly wouldn't want to do meth if i was you. It might be the more cautious and rational decision.

>>727681836
Yes. He loves us all, but mainstream science has brainwashed us all.
NASA has fool world thinking Earth is a ball, and not flat. That we are not special, or that the universe doesn't revolve us.
NASA doing this made God seem so far away. Real Jews are black. Current Jews are not Real Jews, my friends. Real Jews have been replaced long long ago by evil hearts of men.
He will forgive all. Talk to him.
Open your mind and soul. It'll take time but build that relationship.
Listen to what Jesus teaches, and work to have your mind/conscious like his.

Which God is this thread meaning anyway?

>>727694488
Well if it works for you, that's great.
I was brought up with the notion that "You have to stand around with your mouth open for a long time, before a grilled chicken flies into it" though.
I've dealt with all of the shit that has happened in my life, by taking responsibility for it and working on it.
I'm not saying my way is superior, but I don't think I could get myself to live your way.

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>>727694098
Not all religions think Michael is Jesus Christ. A lot of them think Jesus = God.
Jehovah's Witnesses say that Michael was Jehovah's son. Says it in the Bible.
>Jehovah's Witnesses' bible was proven by an unbiased third party to be the most accurate translation.

do you believe there's a pink teapot in the center of the moon?

>>727693357
It's impossible for a Omnipotent being to exist in a logic obeying space because omnipotence requires true total perfection and unlimited total control. This is proven impossible by the simple claim of if a being can not create something that it can not destroy then it doesn't have the control to do so, inversely if it can create something it can not destroy then it isn't absolutely controlling. Most major world religions claim God to be Omnipotent which is impossible. That's why I said other versions that don't claim omnipotence are okay.

This thread is probably started by a missionary. And that cringes me out. Nothing worse than a person trying to push their fetish on you

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>>727694874

I am the light, what you seek is fire.

>>727694927
Jehovas witnesses are worse than phone salespeople

>>727682126
Idk i am no christian but my fam has seen plenty of miracles.

>>727694662
So suddenly reading the Bible makes you an idiot?... oh wait... nevermind.

>>727695027
Tell yourself you had a good childhood

rekt

>>727693880
>can't tell if joking or just really stupid

>>727694927

JH are probably the "least worst" 'Christian', but they're still bad. I spoke to a girl online who's brother killed himself because his mother found out he was fapping to porn and told half the country.

It's like none of these theists have ever heard of Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Richard Dawkins, Dan Barker, Sean Carroll...

No, you can't prove he exists, so why believe in him?

>>727694972
It beats the childlike empress threads though, people are actually willing to calmly discuss in this one.

>>727681836
I know I don't believe everything came from nothing which unfortunately makes no sense when talking about the origin of all things. I believe in evolution but abiogenesis seems about as equally unbelievable as life being transplanted on to earth. So what I'm trying to say is, I stack lumber for a living and masturbate to Japanese cartoon both religion and scientific theories on the origin of the universal don't mean shit to.

>>727694874
>NASA has fool world thinking Earth is a ball, and not flat. That we are not special, or that the universe doesn't revolve us. Listen to what Jesus teaches, and work to have your mind/conscious like his.

And you forgot pedo unicorns with snowflake farts.

Still not robot.

>>727695139
Thats enough for a christian to say he believes in god

God exists because god is just so good

christian dub step is cool

its like wubwubwubJESASwubwubwub

>>727694963
What if.... God was the Logos, a substantial information system.
Everything would be information. Ideas can change, and things can be based upon ideas. An electron and a positron could be an idea that adds up to a zero but they would never truly be destroyed, just changing from one form to another in God.

>>727695215
Your father stuck his fat stinky penis up your mothers snatch and nutted deep inside her to make you

>>727693785
And in my view thats a good approach. I don't consider myself tied down to anything. The bible says you are given freedom to do whatever you want. If you want to follow Christ, be like him. Thats the only reason he died, was to show the world how to live and live again. Love humanity, help humanity, believe despite everything around you telling you not to and watch as the impossible becomes possible. It's pretty much a try it yourself kind of thing. My choice to go to church was my own and to leave it was my own. I've gone back and forth for a reason. Because my belief is personal, nothing to do with being fed from some guy at a podium. Although to me church is helpful to remain aware that He is there for you. It's easy to forget.

>>727695270
What if... god didn't exist..

>>727692735
All of a sudden, god is not so omnipotent after all. The goalposts just keep on shifting.

Christians. All bullshit all the time.

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>>727695222
Go to NASAs website. They admit that they use photoshop and are fake.

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>>727684844
Being religious doesn't mean you're an idiot. I hate people like you that swear whatever scientific beliefs they hold as truth arent extremely theoretical, like evolution for example. Actually religious and science have gone hand in hand many times throughout history

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No!

>>727695270
True but none of that is claiming omnipotence where the "textbook" major religion God is assumed omnipotent. All I'm saying is the version of god that's directly from the texts is impossible not necessarily what people individualy believe it to be.

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>>727695061
When they knock on your door it's just to try to help you. JW's really believe that the world is ending soon. Bible prophecies have actually been pretty accurate. and i mean BIBLE PROPHECIES. Not some old fuck's personal prediction or the mayan calander.
JW's take only what the bible says and apply it in life. Not their own opinions. They try to IMITATE Jesus. They try to do good at every moment in every day. They knock on your door because as Bible prophecies say, the end of the world is near when a series of symptoms are present.
>The last thing we're waiting for as far as Bible prophecies go is the peace between nations. Once 'peace' is declared, Armageddon is upon us immediately.
Although, that probably wont be for so fucking long, JW's believe it's as near as the next few years.
So when they knock on your door, they're LITERALLY trying to save your life.

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>>727695222
>>727695532

>>727694593
Figure yourself out yet?

>>727695333
Yeah he did, that's how you came to be as well anon, just with your dad and mom though. Because I know my brother wouldn't talk like this.
>>727695345
So me being self sufficient isn't something blameworthy?
Because I've met plenty of Christians who seemed almost exasperated and afraid for me, for living my life as I see a decent person would, without basing it in any religion.

>>727695151
you're an idiot because you're taking into account only one bible that you're reading. Jesus is NOT God. That's his son.

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>>727695245

>>727695164

I was joking. I'm a Christian, but I don't really believe in miracles.

>>727695586
Dear God this was down syndrome level of retardation. I don't even know where to begin but I do already know convincing an idiot of his idiocy would only prove me an idiot also, so ill stop here.

>>727695189
Ah, yeah. That's pretty bad. That's seen as disgusting among JW's. This is because it's practically considered adultery. As in, cheating.
>22, still look at bitches every fucking day and violently fap to porn
Its a habit I should stop. But they're just lookin out for you even if it seems bad at first. Porn in a marriage is practically cheating. Which is kinda good because your bitch won't be lookin at other men behind your back

Flip a coin. I'll wait...

Did it it come up heads? If so, a moose will make it into space one day.

I look at the idea of god the same way I do when it comes to the existence of aliens: there may be a possibility that extra terrestrial life exists, but that doesn't mean that klingons or xenomorphs (human imaginings) are real.

Same way there may be a being(s) that for lack of a better term can be referred to as god(s) but that doesn't mean that any of the different gods that were worshipped throughout history are real.

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>>727681836
Who wouldnt belive

>>727695894
it would be a miracle if there is a god ... you get it , right ?

>>727695989
Masturbation is your private sex life with yourself though, if you stop it because some chick or religion tells you to, aren't you cheating on yourself?

>>727695989

>Its a habit I should stop. But they're just lookin out for you even if it seems bad at first. Porn in a marriage is practically cheating. Which is kinda good because your bitch won't be lookin at other men behind your back

How would you know? Men are visually inclined and have a far more immediate and persistent need for sexual release. Women aren't typically huge users of porn. It seems like you're basically in an invisible chastity-cage cult. What's to stop her from desiring other men, or being shitty to you and denying you sex? Literally nothing - but they'll expose little boys and shame them for having natural urges.

>>727696082
Who is this little semen demon?

>>727681836
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>727695894
So you think a jew walking on water is a little unlikely, but you're ok with an invisible guy waving a magic wand and zapping up a universe.

I'm not sure which christians are more retarded.....the ones who think everything in the babble is true, or the pick-and-choose, buffet christians. Dumb and dumber.

>>727691897
no, I mean any group.

You will not find a group of people in the history of humanity that did not develop a belief system.

Put a bunch of people in an island in the middle of the pacific and they will build fifty foot statues.

Living close to the north pole? they start praying ot the spirits of the animals they eat.

Lost in the middle of the biggest forest in the world? take some alucinogens to meet with the world spirits

riding a camel on a desert? believe that blowing yourself up will get you up to heaven with seventysomething virgins.

you get the idea, it is not whether religion is good or bad. The fact is it is necesary

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>>727681836
There is no proof of the existence of god, so I don't believe

Not saying there isn't any god, but just like ghosts and aliens, have to see it to believe it.

>>727696098
Anyone IQ >100. That's who.

>>727696166
It's about self-control, man. And sexual intimacy is considered sacred, even if its just visual.

>>727695681
>When they knock on your door it's just to try to help you. JW's really believe that the world is ending soon.

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>>727695966
>lol look at this idiot
>he's so dumb look at him xD
>I'm not gonna give a single reason how he's wrong tho
>what an idiot guys

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>>727681836
Yes, plus world is flat, like it says in bible.

>>727696152
>>727696276

All I know is that I exist, and I didn't make myself. Does that make sense? Am I being completely irrational about that? Something much larger than me brought me into being, it brought my parents into being, everything I know - the day I was born and the day I die are determined by this thing. I call that God. The universe is full of intelligence, your physical body is intelligent even if you're in a coma - your cells continue to communicate with one another, etc... and your physical body is the result of 'intelligent systems' of reduced orders of complexity.

So yeah, I believe the universe is ruled by intelligence.

>>727696232
Tanya degurechaff from youjo senki

>>727694916
I don't think I've been using God as an escape route. God didn't just make things go right. I asked for wisdom, and things went right. If something works why not keep doing it.

By all means if life has roughed you up and you've made it kudos. But my only suggestion is don't ever rule it out. If you ever feel like you can't bear the weight put over your shoulders don't hesitate to ask God for help.

>>727696198
read my response to this other guy
>>727696166

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>>727696483

>>727681836
No.

Recently started to believe in God as praying has saved my gf's life more then once. Though scared at the beginning through prayer I was sure that she would survive both times, truly must be real by working miracles like that back to back

>>727681836
Believe? No.

I can fathom why humans want to pass the buck and place ownership of their shit, be it good or bad, on something intangible that doesn't have to defend itself.

But fuck no I don't believe it.

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>>727696545

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>>727695586

>>727681836
I ONLY BELIEVE IN THE VOID.

>>727696404
But I do have self control, I only fap when I have time for it and it won't interfere with my daily life.
If sexual intimacy is sacred, why would I jilt my longest standing sexual partner, myself?
Sure I can fap to my imagination, do it all the time. Is it the looking at pictures or videos that is bad?

98% of christians of social heritage(parents)
1% socially (friends or family are christians)
1 % sick or homeless people that got helped by a christian

>>727681955
This
I'm not sure what to think. Part of me says no and the other part says yes because I want to believe that life isn't just meaningless and that I have a purpose.

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>>727696621

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>>727681836
Nope, but I'm open to the idea of a believable god, which is one whose traits are internally consistent.
But as far as actually believing they exist, I have to see and record them in person.

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>>727696692

>>727695586
you don't understand what a scientific theory is

>>727684630
>of course theres consciousness after you die
>its impossible to experience your nonexistence
um wat, isnt consciousness the literal description of experiencing your own existence?

>>727681836
I'd like to, but I really have trouble justifying it.

>>727696658
Shit I don't know about masturbation without porn. Sorry man. But I'm pretty sure if I asked my elders they'd say something along the lines of
"you should try to fight those desires."
Also, you're not a partner lol. You're you. It's not sacred. It's just lust.
Self control would be resisting temptations despite desiring it constantly.

>>727696752
>What is gravity

>>727681836
I Don't believe that i'm eating when i don't have food in my mouth. When i see food in my mouth, i'll believe i'm eating, that's certain.

>>727696752
dont feed this obvious troll

>>727696969
These digits.
KEK

>>727695586
evolution isnt theoretical, humans have actually demonstrated artificial selection evolution when we bred every known form of dog from wolves. evolution is observable, what you are thinking about as the theory of evolution is really the theory of abiogenesis

>>727696752
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgY8zNZ35uw&t=119s

>can autism be cured?

>>727696507
The thing is though anon, I'm very literal minded.
I tend not to do things, that don't make sense to me.
When I feel bad I reach out to people that I know for a fact will respond to me.
For me praying is like talking into the air and expecting it to care.
I can go as far with you as believing that you believe and derive some sort of comfort out of it.
But for myself, I tend to only believe what can be proven within someone sort of tangible metric.
Which makes me a really odd atheist, because i've witnessed ghosts and do believe in them(sort of, they could be explained by hallucination or some environmental factor), but I've never witnessed anything godlike.

>>727696969
these digits
>god is real

>>727696819

I meant that it continues to go on after you pass, maybe not for you, but in general.

That isn't saying that you won't be conscious again at some point. it only needs to happen once for it to be possible to happen again.

The fact there have been so many random gods, funnily enough at different times in history to specifically represent things only associates with that place and time in history, that we continue to debate this as a species, tells me there isnt one, and its just our desire to extend our reach beyond our limited spot in the universe.

Once you grasp that its ok to be fucking nothing but some self aware atoms at a specific location in time and space, you can move on with life.

Yes, because he is our President and his word is in infallible. All hail the Orange Messiah. He will end all abortion and turn our children into proper Christian suicide bombers.

>>727696296
I definitely just misread what you were saying then my bad. I still don't find it necessary though beyond those early developmental years. Humans are naturally curious and creative so making stories or theories for things that can't be explained in the meantime is natural but once we learn otherwise and gain the means for deeper and deeper insight into how things work it becomes less of a need for stories and more of a need for discovery.

>>727696968
But I hurt no one when I fap, I release some hormones and protein. Then I sleep like a baby.
I'm sorry anon, but I didn't grow up in a home where sex was taboo, so I don't feel any of the shame that is supposed to keep me religious in this regard.

>>727681836
It's hard. But I do believe in good and bad powers.

>>727695744
Not at all. I believe all experiences with God are strictly personal. If you've gone through life completely satisfied without God and your a decent human being, thats pretty good anon.

All I suggest is that if that day comes that you really need that helping hand, nobody knows you better than a God who sees all. I know its easy to dismiss but if in a moment you dwell on the idea that there is a God who is there for you and you ask for him to reveal himself to you in your life. Your life would change. All I can say is don't rule this out anon.

>>727697088
As someone who attends a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses 3 times a week... this is their typical counter to the theory of evolution

>>727696454
Missed the part of arguing/debating with a idiot only proves there are 2 didn't ya. That saying does hold true just a heads up.

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>>727681836

it all makes for a fun story, but in the end, meh we are all going to end up worm food.

>>727697381
That's not what I'm trying to do. What I was doing was explaining why it's frowned upon.

>>727693869

see>>727693269

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>>727697501
Forgot my image

>>727695428
Well then, have a fun 70 year old life filled
with the complete absence of the fantastic, and be a wage cuck with nothing to look forward to for all your hard work in the end.

>>727687080
Yes I believe in the world.

>>727697647
Strong assumptions there bud.

>>727697675
Hateful, really hateful religion.

>>727697478
I'm not gonna rule anything out before it is definitively disproven, but I really doubt I will ever find myself thinking "maybe there is a god and I should devote myself to him".
>>727697589
Then I fail to see the logic behind it, why are they budding into what I do on my own time anyway?

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>>727681836

>>727697632
Why do you attend those? Do you actually believe that?

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>>727681836
>white Mormons in heaven.

Apparently the Utah Jew is throwing shekels around at online propaganda firms again.

You and your white fan fiction all need to go back.

>>727697632
I fucking hate those arguments.
Those people are fucking retarded.

>>727697586
God didn't make the book because he wanted his creations to have a direct part in telling their stories and encounters with Him and His son, among other things.

>>727697598
>still misunderstanding me this hard

>Conscious existence is all we can ever experience

Uh huh. I agree and never said otherwise. You throw this around like it in any way contradicts me.

>therefore consciousness continues after death

This is where the problem is. If you don't see why this doesn't follow, you really ought not be here.

>>727697934
So you have no counter argument then? Because really, where ARE the between-species? get checkmated you fucking cheeky cunt

>>727697308
what im telling you, is there is no evidence to support the fact that the memories, the ideas and interests of someone, all that you think makes you you, can be literally wiped away while your brain is alive and functioning how can you justify keeping them when your brain isnt alive or functioning.

>>727697857
Read what I wrote earlier
>>727695681
>>727694529

>>727697997
You do know that the first primate in that picture isn't a chimp right?
The chimp should be right up there next to man, if it accounted for all of the great apes on our planet.

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I want to recover information from my USB stick, hard drive, etc.

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>>727696969
theories.

>>727681836
Many. Hoping to catch Freyja and Odin's attention.

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>>727697632
Religion: 1
Atheists: 0

>>727698191
>what does "theory" mean in science

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory