Whats the best hip hop group ever and why is it Hieroglyphics?

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PuTS would also be an acceptable answer. Although they're only a duo.

one last bump then

>>727513649
best
hip hop

ok not quite "choose one" but really? I agree there must be a "best of a bad bunch", but surely it is all crap?

>>727513649
MF DOOM and all his alter ego's would take the cake.

>>727514885
oh damn dude nice post.
>bragging about being closed minded

>>727515020
I don't actually listen to a lot of hip hop, only a select few groups like hiero, PuTS, tribe, and a couple solo artists like shad and moka only. Never really sat down and listened to mf doom, but some of my friends love them and im sure they've played him for me.

>>727515027
I have a fifteen year old son who plays this crap all the time and dances to it like a nigger.

it is totally repetitive, boring and unoriginal. banal rhymes to the same chanted half musical "melody" with predictable beats and breaks.

it is utterly devoid of originality or complexity or worth. Derivative at best, brutal and crude at worst.

>>727515212
I think you're confusing rap with hip hop, dad.

Wutang

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SVkGZBi-e4

>>727515332
oh I know the difference - Rap is hip hop with extra crap added. Hip Hop is rap with more dance beat.
But all still stuck in the same mold that they came out of twenty years ago - utterly boring, four tot he bar, one and three on the bass emphasised, interchangeable and soulless

>>727515755
>Rap is hip hop with extra crap added. Hip Hop is rap with more dance beat.
>soulless

Ok you got me, you win. I've been giving out (you)s to bait for the last 10 minutes.

>>727515755
> Rap is hip hop with extra crap added. Hip Hop is rap with more dance beat
kek, you literally just made that up, you really do sound like a senile grandpa

>>727515556
Sorry, but ill never be able to listen to a white man rap. Its like listening to a white man sing work songs... the type of music just isn't for you.

>>727516017
they suck but you're retarded

dig this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJcfum5qL0Q

>>727515020
moka only and DOOM has a great song together
name's More soup, i suggest you listen if you like moka.

i knew about DOOM for years before i really started paying attention to how good/different/wierd he really is, yes some of his works will definetly not resonate with you at all but if you have some time to kill put on the album Madvillainy, you wont be dissapointed.

although when it comes to rap groups with 2 or more rhymers i dont really listen to a lot to name a few i think are okey
AOTP
Hail mary mallon
Felt
cypress hill
And ofcourse Wu-tang is in their own class above all else.

>>727515332
listen to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePHE1JCpME4

the albumn OP posted. It is exactly what i said it was - slow rap, boring and derivative musical background... banal lyrics with a bit of swearing to spice them up.

crap.

If you don't think Wu are the best then you're just wrong, it's not even a matter of opinion they are just better than everyone else. MF Doom is for white kids who want to pretend they're eclectic when their favourite band is Limp Bizkit

>>727515863
>>727515928
see >>727516220

really - if you had any musical taste, or education, or could play a musical instrument, you would know how simple, and drab, this junk is.

compare it to the innovation of classical music, the complexity and vibrabce of early blues, and later blues based rock, prog rock, original heavy rock and metal, even later metal (before speed and death and thrash and the rest made a nonsense of it) or the originality of Disco and early dance music - even House and Acid and early Trance. the depth of lyrical complexity of real songwriters like cohen and dylan and cabrel and Brel, and even Paddy macaloon of Prefab Sprout. the welath of musical genres referenced and expanded by Bowie, or Talking heads, or peter gabriel, or even god help us, taylor swift (yes plastic and over produced, but actually innovative) the force of Pink!, the cleverness of katy perry - women who really do write their own lyrics. But they don't compare to the musicality of the Eurythmics, the social and political subversion of erasure, or for that matter Nirvana.

Hip hop is a dead end, and dead medium, endlessly recycling the same crap.

>>727516310
Wu as a group would probably slay all of the ego's of MF DOOM if you could pit them against eachother.

however DOOM would and have outshined many of the Wu's members if they where alone against him, RZA and Method man would have no problem going head to head but cappadonna and U-god would have been slaughterd in a battle imo

>>727516310
>Wu-tang Clan

the best

Oh lord. how can you actually determine on first listening who it is that is doing the song? seriously - If I played you ten new songs by ten different hip hop "artists" would you be able to tell who it was, unless they referred to themselves by name? I mean that is why they always mention their names at some point isn't it, in case you forget which interchangeable boring chanter is doing his unoriginal thing?

>>727516772
>what is a voice
No need to make daft comments just because your ears are shit. If I played ten songs by ten metal bands could you tell me what make of double bass pedal they use

>>727516772
We're kinda operating under the pretense that they're the best out of all the hip hop groups. No one is claiming any of these groups are the best groups in music as a whole...

How drunk are you, dad?

>>727516772
>that is why they always mention their names at some point isn't it
Pretty sure G-Unit were the only ones who ever did that

>>727513649
You mean A Tribe Called Quest, right?

>>727517021
google the albumn that OP started with - play the video on you tube - they mention thier name in first twenty seconds. google wu tang play first video (gravel pit?) they mention name in first twenty seconds. google mf doom. first video - dooms day, mentions name in first chorus.

kind of a pattern here...

>>727516928
yeah, but they are all chanting the same chant in the same key, mostly, and unless you were extremely familiar with them you would have no clue. even then, I doubt you would get it right 100%. of half the time. because they are all so similar, and do the same shit.

really. same samples, same scratches and same background chants and whoops and whistles, same drum loops or bass loops. I could cut ten tracks together and you wouldn't know they came from ten different songs.

>>727517039
I love tribe as much as the next guy, but they're a little too oldschool. We're talking about the best, not the most classic.

late 90s early 00s were definitely the pinnacle.

>>727517236
are you seriously just going to base your entire argument during your time in the thread on opinions and assumption?

>>727517039
>A Tribe Called Quest,
google, play first video...

2.17 into "we the people" they mention "the tribe"

(although I will admit the vocalist who started is distinctive even if it is the same drum loop and same chant as all the other groups use...once the other vocalists join in it become indistinguishable from all the rest)

>>727517116
Yes its expected, rappers have very big egos as a general rule and usually if they dont mention their name directly they do it in a indirect way.

I would say that better rap artists does it a lot less, sure might have a couple of songs in the album that does it but majority does'nt.

im not the guy you replyed to btw.

>>727517419
no. try doing as I suggested >>727517116

every band so far mentioned if you search for them and listen sounds just about identical to every other one. all use the same few drum beat loops, the same limited range of backing instruments int eh same way, the same chanted lyric style, with banal rhymes, and spiced with a few swear words, with their names dropped at some point to make sure you know who it is. Every. fucking. One.

just listen to this shit, and see.

>>727517236
So what you're saying is you don't have a fucking clue what the rap scene is like and are embarrassingly ignorant enough to pretend that you do when conversing with people who really are aware of what goes into it. Your favourite band is probably Slayer

>>727517513
>rappers have very big egos

but little reason to have them.

I actually like a couple of Snoop tracks, and a few Eminem. I thought NWA Striaght outta compton was fantastic when I first heard it in 1988 but to hear the same thing again and again for twenty years? the latest shit is still the same. no different beat, no different backing track (or ver little) no different chant style - sure it is a style, but it is as dead adn formal and boring as a whole evening of Bach. (I like a little, but christ I would kill the harpsicord player rather than listen to the whole of the Goldberg variations played twice over)

>>727517615
I dont even know where to start with you dude. You're genuinely blowing my mind.

ITS NOT ABOUT THE BEAT/INSTRUMENTS

its so incredibly obvious that i'm compelled to yell it out at the top of my lungs!

The beat is maybe 20% of it, the vocals 80%.

like... how can you sit here and think this is a good arugment?! You're literally shitting all over the weakest part of the music and all you can say about the other 80% of the music is "they say their name a lot so its bad"...

FUCK! its gotta be bait!

>>727513649
3rd Base.

>>727518000
>I actually like a couple of Snoop tracks, and a few Eminem. I thought NWA Striaght outta compton was fantastic
lol you are the whitest person alive this gets more and more hilarious

>>727516535 i am just reading that thinking please god stop. You are just your typical white dude who thinks hes got superior music taste. You dont. I listen to literally everything from van halen to Eminem and slayer. Hip hop is using rhyme structure and word phrasing to piece together music and story telling with nothing but your voice and thats where the talent is in it. You use word phrasing. Jokes. Punchlines. Tounge twisters. Rhyming all to chain together a song. I practice freestyling but i also play guitar. Why? Because im not a stuck up white dude in his 50s who thinks "this generation is stupid" grow the fuck up and stop writing bibles on the internet about how hip hop is trash and a dead end. If it was it wouldnt be a billon dollar music genre.

>also i bet your son listens to drake & lil wayne

>>727518000
I understand why you would say that but since the beginning of rap its been clear its competitive, chyphers and battles on stages after/before shows and "rap beef" (which i honestly think is just silly) have been a part of the "game" from the start where someone would loose and someone would win.

why most of these newer rappers chant their names is just good old copy catting the first generation of rappers instead of going in a new direction or innovating.

i dont listen to that many rap groups because they are more about the hype they can get on stage rather then the quality of music someone makes that spends 10 years in their basement listening to everything from blues/soul/rock and rap and tries to make masterpieces.

>>727517659
actually, I don't rate Slayer at all.

I like a wide range of music - classical, blues, rock, pop, dance, lyrical. My latest purchase was the last Leonard Cohen album - very dark, very clever. The previous album I bought was Rachmaninov, the one before that was Chris Thile.

but I bought NWA, Grandmaster Flash, Eminem, Dr Dre when he went solo (with Doggy Dogg as he was then) and Afrika Bambaataa.

I have Public enemy and the Beastie boys on vinyl. I bought the Notorious B I G

so I speak from some knowledge. My son is into Scred connexion and Mokless and and Mac Solaar - we have lived in France for most of his life) which with my poor french and lack of french slang is pretty inaccessible, but funny enough sounds just the same as the modern american and british stuff - the same derivative shit.

>>727518466
>If it was it wouldnt be a billon dollar music genre.
lol,

you are the most naive child ever. You think that the amount of money record companies con you out of with trash is an indicator of greatness? In that case Justin Beiber and the One Direction guys must be musical gods...

they sell this crap to you as counter culture, anti establishmant, revolutionary and rebellious. you buy tour uniqueness, like every other unique reel youngster. you queue up to be special, liek all the rest.

and your rappers keep producing the same crap, because you buy it...

lol

>>727518679
You realise you have legit made an idiot out of yourself to this entire thread. This thread went from
>whos your fav rap group
To
>lets all bash on the typical white guy in his 50s

>>727518125
yep, I am not a nigger. Or an idiot teenager who has been persuaded by mass media marketing that pretending to be a thug with no education is a good way to rebel against your parents...

something wrong with that?

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>>727513649
that would be Heltah Skeltah

>>727513649
Tribe called Quest

>>727518977
sorry if you think that pointing out that all rap and hip hop groups post 2000 with very few exceptions are just derivative drivel repeating the same crap and taking your money is "making an idiot out of myself"

I rather think the idiots are the ones who buy that shit... and more so the ones who defend it, or even talk about it as a serious artistic medium.

>>727518972
Your a fucking idiot. Justin Bieber and one direction make billions because they do have talent and people enjoy their stuff. Your trying to say justin bieber cant sing? Id shed tears of happiness if i saw bieber in a rekt thread but he can defenitely sing? This just shows how close minded you are you have listened to a tiny bit of old school rap and the newer shit isnt much different but it has crappy beats and autotune thrown in.
Its the same shit? Really? Yes the generic style is the same. Have a beat. Rap over it. But you are literally just bragging about how close minded you are. Metallica does the same shit
>kek no they dont
Really? Up until Load it all sounded the same
>kek but fade to black and one etc
Yea well rappers write songs about killing just to survive. Others write songs about how they missed their loved ones or how rap saved their starving children.
>kek anon its all thugs making the same stuff
Half of the ones that were thugs were only because they had to sell drugs to keep food on the table. Look at Eminem? You think he was a gangster and robbed people? No he grew up in a black neighnourhood. Had a daughter. Literally almost broke bone day and night to feed her till his rap skill got noticed and if your going to say all of Eminems stuff sounds the same then theres no point even arguing because it has to he bait considering Eminem and half the other hip hop artists on their own are probably more successful than your favourite bands combined.
>cry me a river neckbeard

>>727519220
Uh the Hieroglyphics, ATCQ, Wu Tang, De La Soul, NWA, The Beastie Boys, etc. are all pre-2000.....

>>727519357
Did I ever emtnion Metallica? No. Do I rate them? Not much.

a great deal of technical talent, yes, but poured down a drain.

And yes, a great deal of Eminem does sound the same - but his lyrics are far cleverer than the majority of the shit produced by other rappers and hip hop artists. Same with Snoop.

those guys are clever and innovative - as was NWA. As was Grandmaster flash and the Furious Five -

but post 2000, and certainly post 2010 - what innovation? how clever? most is banal drivel and the same derivative souds.

like Oasis, after you had heard the Beatles. To the kids it was new and brilliant, to those of us who had heard the original (and they were groundbreaking then, but to me boringly old fashioned now) oasis were just rip off artists and not that good.

If someone was to write a piece of music that was Beethoven like now, or Wagnerian, would it get any attention - no - because it would be seen as pastiche. Modern rap, and hip hop, is pastiche.

if they had any real innovative musical or lyrical skill they would be developing something new, not pastiching the eighties.

>>727518118
>3rd Base.
google
play first video
mention their name in 50 seconds....

oh how original (but at least we would know who it was on the radio, because without the silly video we couldn't tell)

>>727518125
for a white person to by NWA in 1988 was pretty unusual - something you children might not understand.

>>727519637
were. but funny enough many are still going, reforming, or producing the new guys...

recycling - it isn't always a good thing.

>>727519220
Hip Hop and rap is entertainment as any other form of musik book or movie is also entertainment so how do you measure if this medium can contain serious atristic worth?

is it perhaps measured by how many people enjoy the medium? if so Hip hop is a very serious artform, wouldt you say that?

If you dont agree how would you rate a movie, by how many good reviews it has and how many people seem to like it. This is what most people do, then watch it and form their own opinion whether it may be good/bad doesnt take away the artistical worth of the movie from the people who enjoyed it.

It's clear you dont like or understand Hip hop but saying its not a legitimate artform is just ignorant.

>>727513649
Not my personal pick but good taste.

>>727519637
and I said I bought NWA, the Beastie boys, etc pre then.

My point is since then everything has been derivative ( and not innovative)

>>727520281
>It's clear you dont like or understand Hip hop

which part of "I bought all these early rap and hip hop albums" did you not read?

Which part of "now it is all just derivative" and "it was on reflection never that innovative, just shockingly different and appealing to my idiot inner child rebellious nature which on growing up I see was a a bit stupid" do yo not understand?

an art form is a more general thing than aniche musical genre. While some rapping may rise to the level of decent poetry, much is mere doggerel. and in musicality - most is simply derivative and drab.

basically, all that was really interesting and innovative was done pre 2000 (maybe pre 1990) - after that it was all down hill.

>>727513649
>whats the best hip hop group ever
that's like asking what the best smelling piece of shit is.