Why do we need jobs? Why have we been convinced that if we do

>>727279263
>What makes you angry about the world /b/?

what makes me angry is that there are entitled anons who don't understand why we need jobs.

>>727279263
Go to Thailand and live on a beach.

>>727279839
>entitled anons
I work faggot, I just don't want to do it anymore.

I don't want anything from anyone, I am literally happy to live in a tent on the streets if it means breaking out of this depressive situation and abandoning all responsibilities.

What I am asking is why is there such a stigma associated with that kind of attitude?

>>727279263
Banksy?

>>727280122
You're literally posting this here only thanks to other people's work.

>>727280122
If you hate society so much (faggot), what the fuck do you care about stigmas? Go live on the street. You won't, you fucking pussy

>>727280122
If you're happy to do it then fucking do it. You're entitled because you're continuing to complain while spouting that you're fine with being a bum. If that were true you'd have done it by now. But you can't because you like taking advantage of having a place to live and technology to use. You want all the things without putting in the effort that others put in. You are entitled.

So either suck it up and stop being a bitch or go be homeless like you say you're fine with. Continuing to complain about it here serves less of a purpose than you claim working a job does.

>>727279263

Then find a job you enjoy, or at least find worth doing. Try giving back.

you can't expect to get things handed to you for free.

imagine if you had made something by hand, and there's a demand for it. you're going to want to trade it for something else want, because it's valuable and you spent the time making it.

same principal applies to jobs. folks need people to do things for them, they pay em. you're just trading them labor for resources.

in a broader sense, nobody's going to want to share with you (be it food, shelter, etc) if you don't help them out or have something they'd exchange it for

>>727279263
Don't worry m8, once full automation happens there won't be any jobs and the economy will have to change massively.
If you throw free unlimited clean and renewable energy into the mix you have a utopia

>>727279263
Humans existed for gorillions of years without working, humans were not made to work.

>>727280450
This... but I'm pretty sure op was b8

>>727280122
I agree, actually. I came from a well-off family, I was given a cushy position in our company, I invested well, and I retired at 25. I will never need to work again.

And you know what? People fucking hate me for it. They despise me for it. Because I don't have to work and they do. They call me a leech and an asshole and all kinds of other bullshit. Why? Because I was smarter than them and able to use the opportunities I was given to set myself up? The fact is, this attitude of hard work being virtuous is stupid. It's just a way for people to justify wasting their lives toiling in the dirt like a peasant. Hard work isn't virtuous, smart work is.

I don't see any problem with not working or contributing to society if you're able to provide for yourself in some other way. This is your life, you only get the one. Why should you waste it doing something that makes you hate being alive? That's foolish. If you can live the life you want to live without working, then fucking do it. Fuck society.

>>727280593
people from poor backgrounds don't have any opportunities to exploit you absolute nitwit

>>727280593
>Why? Because I was smarter than them and able to use the opportunities I was given to set myself up?

Having rich parents doesn't make you smarter you dumb Jew it just means by accident of Birth your parents are rich.

File: IMG_1361.jpg (175KB, 900x581px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 900x581px

>>727279839
Most jobs dont really reproduce society, and those who do could mostly be automated anyway. Work will be obsolete in 15 years if we allow it

>>727280563
Well, I'd argue that if anything, the opposite is true. People used to need to work because if they didn't, they didn't eat. We used to need workers because every single worker counted. People needed shit. We needed every blacksmith we could get because carpenters needed hammers.

Now, we have factories that can crank out way more hammers than we'll ever need, so now workers are not as necessary. The paradigm has shifted from needing people to work because there were niches that needed filling, to needing to find a niche because people need to work. We don't need half the people working today, honestly. Do you need 10 cupcake shops in your town? Wouldn't you be just fine with 5 cupcake shops?

>>727280640
Everyone has opportunities. Some are just more obvious than others.

>>727280714
Did you miss the part where I invested my money? I wasn't, no would I have been, given anywhere near enough to retire on my own without investing.

See OP? The hate is real.

>>727280231
not sure, cant find the pic anywhere else

>>727280467
>still thinks im asking for free shit

>>727280501
This is my point exactly. We don't need to do shitty jobs because there are ways society could function without it, but we are brainwashed into thinking we do, because of:
>>727280828
This anon fucking gets it. Wrote it better than I ever could have as well.

I have no problem with pulling my weight and helping out my community, but society at large an it's bogus ideals of 'work ethic' can fuck right off.

>>727279263
Are you one of those anarchy fags?
Kill yourself.

>>727281026
No one is talking about anarchy, they're just pointing out (correctly) that society really could function just as it does now with a fraction of the workers we have now.

Nobody wants to work fuckface. Find an easier way to make money, or go be a hobo. Nobody is forcing you to work or be a part of society unless you live In North Korea. Just don't think you are entitled to sleep and play vidya all day if you can't afford it yourself.

Hold on op, I'll blow your mind. I hope you're sitting down. The reason you have to work for money in order to live in our society is.....

Society doesn't function without people running it! If nobody farmed food and sold it for money, everyone would have to grow their own and there'd be no time for things like art or research and so on. If you don't like it you're free to go someplace else and grow your own food, try somewhere out in the boonies in Africa or South America.

>>727281118
And how are you going to decide who has to work and who doesn't?

>>727280910

>Everyone has opportunities. Some are just more obvious than others

Do you honestly believe that if everyone in the world made the most of their opportunities they could all be millionaires and retire at 25?

>>727279263
I hate people who make up outrageous shit on 4chan and expect us to believe it.

It is not hard to make a believable entertaining story

>>727281276
Not that anon but;
The benevolent super AI will decide that.
Until then I just need free money so I can browse dank memes all day and eat snacks.

>>727281454
Fam, soon itll be like 15million merits in black mirror

Eventually everything will be entirely depending on power. We have food that is limitless, and super tvs and ultra facebook and shit, but we will need power, and with robots doing everything people do, people will become power

>>727281199
>Nobody is forcing you to work or be a part of society
If that were true, this thread wouldn't exist. Try again.

>>727281264
>Society doesn't function without people running it!
It would do, but fuck society anyway.

>>727281276
Why should anyone decide shit about anyone else?

Those that wish to work hard, can do, and will be rewarded for it generously.

Those that wish to not work a 'traditional job' should have the option to live a more community-based life.

I'm not saying everyone sits on their arses doing nothing all day, I am just sick of the whole 'if you don't work, you are scum' ideology that is fucking rampant throughout society.

>>727281596
It was a great episode but I think the idea of it being about power was very flawed.
It being about exercise for health reasons was the real reason. The AI forcing them to do it for their own good.

>>727280501
>>727280828
>>727280982
This article articulates that problem quite well http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

>>727282012
The article won't display, just some screen about a new website coming, shame it sounded interesting.

>>727282012
'New magazine coming soon'
Fix this pls.

>>727282120
Ok try this link instead. Same article http://evonomics.com/why-capitalism-creates-pointless-jobs-david-graeber/

>>727282241
Cheers, will bookmark and read later.
The large chicken curry I just ate has made me tired so it's nap time, then game time, then food time, then tv time, then bedtime.
/b/ is constant.

>>727280715
>>727281454
>>727280501

What I don't get is why you guys think automation will make things easier or better for people in general.

The fully automated world you guys are talking about will either:

A. Be entirely owned by a handful of the world's richest people who won't need or want the rest of us around anymore, and will subsequently throw us the fuck out to live in medieval - like conditions or die.

or B. Be run by a superintelligent AI which - skynet? Terminator? Because OF COURSE that's what it would do. Not even a question.

>>727282586
That is true anon. However there is a third option, the robots will becommonly owned in one way or the other, and the spoils shared. We have options between a future that looks like Robocop, Terminator or Star Trek.

File: 1490304379362.jpg (350KB, 1800x1322px) Image search: [Google]

350KB, 1800x1322px

>>727279263

>>727282586
The A scenario is already prevalent, except instead of being left to die they keep us physically alive but mentally dead, so that there is someone to consume their products and keep them in their positions of power.

If automation did take place, this scenario would change its means, but not its function.

>>727282892
You are correct. Except in the case of automation, we would no longer be necessary. Quite the opposite: we would be a useless drain on their resources, and thus promptly eliminated from their "world".

>>727282768
What makes you think this third option of yours exists as a possibility?

>>727282586
Here's the thing: the rich need us to buy shit or they're not rich anymore. So even if automation makes it so almost no one works, they would still need to find a way to make sure people are getting money so they could buy that new iPhone or whatever.

>>727279263
agree with you, jobs are for slaves

>>727283108
>What makes you think this third option of yours exists as a possibility?

It would certainly require pressure from large social movements that currently are in their infancy for robots to be transfered into common ownership, but its our only option. A similar approach would be a revitalized social democracy movement, with a new "new deal" type program

>>727283553
Social movements are only able to exert pressure on those who DON'T own a large robot army capable of mercilessly killing anyone their owner commands them to.

>>727283512
Why would they need money?

>>727283758
>Social movements are only able to exert pressure on those who DON'T own a large robot army capable of mercilessly killing anyone their owner commands them to.

Well obviously these changes need to happen before we reach that stage. don't be so quick to dismiss alternative futures, cynicism and apathy is what will bring your robot dystopia to life

>the millenial sound of emo (life remix)
Why do we need to live? Why have we been convinced that if we do not live our lives, then we are degenerates within society? Why do people actually believe this?

Fuck living. Fuck all of it. Why should I live in a society that I hate. I don't even want money, or nice things. I don't want a car, a mortgage, job satisfaction, any of it, so what is the point of living just so that I can struggle like everyone else trying to fulfill their ambitions ?

Also general emo thread. What makes you emo about the world /b/?

File: b847194 (4).jpg (32KB, 500x501px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 500x501px

>>727283931
>working = living
>t. wageslave

>>727283758
>Why would they need money?
They wouldn't, but what makes you think they need it now?

It's just more convenient for them to live in a world ruled by their own species, yet for them to have full control over said species.

The alternative goes against our very human nature, and even they are slaves to their biochemistry, just not their 'society'.

>>727283903
Correct on both counts. But all I'm doing is looking at the general direction in which society is headed. You say cynicism and apathy will bring about my robot dystopia? Well what kind of attitude is society currently bathing in?

>>727284100
you should buy a guitar an write gay little songs about how pointless life is and how anybody who doesn't agree is an conformist whore.

you could become my chemical romance 2.0

You're an idiot. You want food and a place to sleep. You probably can't make those yourself. If you can, go do it. But if not, it's easier to work a regular job anyway than make your own food and build and maintain your own home. Get to work and stop complaining. Be lucky you can get work; most countries in the world don't have plentiful jobs.

File: th-thanks.png (57KB, 402x224px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 402x224px

Ayy I just got back from my second trip to the job centre, first one was last week and just did the basic shit. So I go this week expecting an hour long meeting or something and all that happens is I sit there for 5 minutes, my work coach asks me what I did the past week so I tell her about my jobsearch and jobs I've applied for. All she does is say "Ok see you next Tuesday." Like wtf? She didn't even check the forms she asked me to fill out the week before, she didn't check my online job account, she didn't do fuck all? Fucking civil service workers are useless.

>>727284265
>You say cynicism and apathy will bring about my robot dystopia? Well what kind of attitude is society currently bathing in?

Exactly that kind. Which is why imagining an alternative future is the most radical act in our current condition

>>727280501
Utopia doesn't pay well or it would already be here. It's not like we're really lacking in technology or ability.

I'd suggest moving to Switzerland where your attitude is not as much in the minority. They're trying to pass legislation so that everyone is paid money, in the form of a basic low level income so then they can be artists or musicians or just to better themselves as people.

I wish they'd take UKish eurofags. It's like a country of Burning Man.

>>727280828
Or just one motherfucking Starbucks per square mile. I've walked down roads that have a Starbucks opposite each other on the same road. Insanity. They're literally just places to put people. They're not necessary jobs at all.

File: IMG_0698.jpg (43KB, 640x637px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 640x637px

>>727284523
Yeah have a lot of stories from "job" centers as well.
>be at job center
>have to apply for a certain number of jobs a month to get your welfare moneys
>2nd month i land a part time job so i stop applying for as many jobs as I did the 1st month
>recieve warning by supervisor
>"anon you did not apply for enough jobs this month, do that again and your welfare gets reduced"
>me: but wtf i applied for a job and got it, what more do i have to do?
>him: "apply for more jobs"
>me: is there a minimum amount of jobs i have to apply for each month, how many?
>him: ...
turns out he was just bullshitting, there was no minimum amount, and there was no way he could check if i actually applied for the jobs i said i did. even applied for the most ridicilous shit like director of sales

>>727284506
>hey guys I didn't read the thread

>>727284523
Seriously considering quitting my job right fucking now, but signing on is part of their plan as well so that they can keep track of you, make sure you are working the jobs they want you to work.

This shit sounds like some conspiracy nut's scrapbook, but it is literally true, they even admit it themselves.

>>727281596
Black mirror scares the shit out of me sometimes. Especially the video walled cubicle with the exercise bikes. That one is just around the corner. I can see it waving at me.

>>727281772
As always people hate what they can't have.

You can't spend your entire life watching anime you faggot. You need to be productive in one way or another.

>>727280910
This is exactly the type of delusional logic op has. Shut the fuck you trust fund bitch, you were born into a wealthy family and got a fucking job in your FAMILY'S company. The fact that you can't see your not any smarter than a normal person, you were born into wealth by accident proves you're a stupid fuck. You're not special, you're a spoiled little piece of shit.

>>727286090
Well he's shitposting on /b/ so in fact he's productive by increasing 4chans stock value

File: 1396890033188.jpg (32KB, 415x423px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 415x423px

>>727286238
Not him, but he wasn't kidding, the hate really is real.

The fact that you get so annoyed about it is the exact kind of brainwashing that OP is talking about.

File: BvKvLqEIUAIsjDY.jpg (23KB, 500x415px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 500x415px

>>727279263
We dont need jobs. Your nation is in trillions of whatever currency in DEBT. No one in the western nations have worked a day since about 1972.

If you go to work and by the time you come home, your national debt is higher - YOU HAVEN'T WORKED.

Your nation and all nations arent sticking to a budget. They can print all the "money" they need. Which makes money literally WORTHLESS.

>>727287244
Thats a pretty shit definition of work: "any action that reduces government debt". So then a a debt write off would be worth a tremendous amount of work or what? Still it doesnt matter because government debt is not a problem, private debt is

>>727287597
All money IS debt. If your nation want to print a banknote, it goes into debt to the value of that banknote. All debt comes from your central bank.

My definition of work is anything that increases value. So if you make a product - you are creating value. But if you sell that product for you national currency, so are valuing that item as nothing. In fact a minus number.

We have to work and contribute VALUE to our respective nations. If we work and create a debt, we arent working.

>government debt is not a problem
government debt is a massive problem. Its a mathematical certainty that the economy will fail due to excessive gov debt. Also gov seem to think its perfectly lawful to pass on this debt to generations that havent been born yet, which will mean a devalued currency for them. Inheriting the national debt means your currency has less worth the more currency is printed.

We are all enslaved by money. We need to abolish money ASAP.

>>727279263
Dat filename makes me happy
Actually on the dole, making more money than i normally would if i did work.
No travel expenses, petrol, car expenses, no food to pay for etc...
Life's good /b/ros

>>727288376
Trading skills should be the "currency"

>>727288515
>aking more money than i normally would if i did work
How do you do this?
I work self employed and some months I dont get work, so knowing how you do this would be really handy. Im in the UK btw.

>>727288072
>All money IS debt.
Sure
>If your nation want to print a banknote, it goes into debt to the value of that banknote. All debt comes from your central bank.
But most money is created by private banks when they issue loans, albeit in credit form
>My definition of work is anything that increases value
Okay, what is your definition of value then?
Because commodity production creates surplus value though the exploitation of the workers, even if that value i realized through fantasy money it still increases the capital owners capital
>Its a mathematical certainty that the economy will fail due to excessive gov debt.
Ha! According to who, economists?

>>727279263
Your work contributes to society. Other peoples' work contributes to society. If you don't work, you aren't contributing while others continue to. If nobody worked, society would regress. The people who are working are now working as a collective to maintain your lifestyle (if your country has social welfare), whereas you are doing nothing for yourself or anyone else. You can leave this system if you wish. If you are unhappy about the fact the people will look down on you for not working you can go off the grid and support yourself. But, that requires work. Now if you don't work you will die.

Fact is, it takes a lot to keep a person alive. A lot of work. You can stop working and accept people will look at you for the failure you are. You can live outside of society and support yourself. And if you really aren't comfortable with any of those options, you can allways kill yourself.

Which one is it gonna be?

>>727288623
I lived in the UK for 10y I know how the system works there.
You don't get taxed weekly/monthly in case you're out of work.
In frogland, you do pay "dole taxes";
Therefore when you're out of work, what taxes you paid for the unemployed at the time you were working eventually get back to you, thanks to the people working and it goes 'round and 'round.

>>727288702
>created by private banks when they issue loans, albeit in credit form
"Private" banks make loans and allow new currency to be circulated. They get the new currency from the Central Bank. If these "private" banks become insolvent, they get bailed out (as in 2008) so they are not private at all. They are totally state supported.
>definition of value
something of worth / usefulness / rareity. a "plus" item not a minus item. surplus not debt.
>realized through fantasy money it still increases the capital owners capital
"Money" is not capital. debt is not capital. Money is debt.
>According to who, economists?
According to reality. All money is borrowed, from the central bank, at interest. The interest has compounded to the extent that all taxes goes to pay off the interest, not the pricipal and any more thats needed is simply borrowed into existence by the gov. They call this "groth" but its really growth of debt. Our nations have debt bubbles. Currency bubbles and all bubbles burst

>>727289272
>Private" banks make loans and allow new currency to be circulated. They get the new currency from the Central Bank
Nope. They create it with the click of a button. Can't reply to the rest of your post, have to bail for math class

Everytime, anyone of us get paid into a bank/checking account, whatever you call it, we should withdraw the whole lot and only use cash.
Fuck credit cards, checks, direct debits etc
Most banks would be well pissed off and would crumble, the cunts are making money on our back

>>727289471
Sorry for the punctuation, my bank made me do it

>>727288918
>Fact is, it takes a lot to keep a person alive. A lot of work
Wrong.
It takes the exact same things it takes any biological organism to survive. Sleep, sunlight, nutrition and fluids.

Yet my neighbors cat doesn't work a 9 to 5, nor do the wild foxes that roam the streets of a night. They pull their weight, sure, but nobody gives a shit how or why.

I can get these things (food etc.) without needing to contribute to a bogus construct (society), and also without leeching from 'the pot', as it were.

But then you literally get investigated because they want to know how you are supporting yourself. If you think you can just go off the grid like that then you are delusional. You accept their way or you live in absolute poverty.

I wish your post was true though, it sounds like an ideal reality to simply disappear and not have people come looking for you.

File: GC smile3.jpg (6KB, 221x228px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 221x228px

>>727289543
Reeeeeeeeeee
That anon gotz it
Grumpy cat smilez

>>727289543
My point was, it takes someone to do the work to keep you going. The food won't grow itself. The water doesn't flow to your house off its own back.

I know people who have gone off grid. They've been at it for over 11 years now and manage mostly fine. They pay minimal taxes, but are able to do that by selling excess produce to locals. They worked and saved for several years to get to that point but you've gotta take the rough with the smooth as with all things. I think you're all about the smooth though.

>>727290030
>off grid
>paying taxes
Now I see what you meant. You are not delusional, you just don't understand the term 'off-grid'.

>I think you're all about the smooth though.
Damn right. I prioritize my happiness and the happiness of those I care about above all else (except basic survival of course). Guess that makes me an arsehole...

At least it doesn't make me a slave.

>>727290030
Not the anon you answered to but,
DAMAGE CONTROL
DAMAGE CONTROL
We're about to buuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn!!!!

>>727289272
>definition of value
>something of worth / usefulness / rareity. a "plus" item not a minus item. surplus not debt.
So anything that reproduces human being then. What has government debt to do with this?
>realized through fantasy money it still increases the capital owners capital
>"Money" is not capital. debt is not capital. Money is debt.
Capital is resources invested to create more capital
>According to who, economists?
>According to reality. All money is borrowed, from the central bank, at interest. The interest has compounded to the extent that all taxes goes to pay off the interest, not the pricipal and any more thats needed is simply borrowed into existence by the gov. They call this "groth" but its really growth of debt. Our nations have debt bubbles. Currency bubbles and all bubbles burst
Like I said most money is created by commercial banks making loans
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q102.pdf

>>727288210

>>727290653
ebin xD

Back to /pol/ everyone!
It's /b/ no one gives a shit!!!!!

File: clarkson1.gif (263KB, 352x259px) Image search: [Google]

263KB, 352x259px

>>727290785

Life must be so hard.. you should move to afghanistan in search of a better life.

>>727290513
Doesn't make you an arsehole imo. You've just gotta accept that people will be unhappy with your choice, which is what your complaints about being jobless boils down to.

As for 'being off the grid', the term came from being off of the electrical grid. It's usually used to decribe living self sufficiently and without the help of public services. Unfortunately you still have to be a citizen and live under a government's rule. Shall we start a debate about anarchy now because you don't want a job?

>>727290964
Herrro?

>>727279263
luckily you elected president cheeto and all those social programs you use to subsist are gone

>>727291059
herro der fwend

>>727291109
Ree rin rookin fol husband you wan?

File: 1367340891162.png (36KB, 700x700px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 700x700px

oh shit /pol/ has actually arrived.
Abandon thread.

Ror
Rmfao
Tank yu

Ree guna buy arcohol, yu want?

>>727291195
Oh wow I can't wait to have severely mentally ill teens yell about jews and flouride. I was getting bored of our interesting discussion about value creation, automation and utopia.

>>727280261
>thanks to other peoples work
that anon pays for with the proxy for value that we call currency
fuck off with your reliance bullshit
anon already said they'd be fine on the street in a tent and I don't know many literal streets with internet access and power
You're also implying that posting here is a positive action and that this place isn't hell incarnate, degrading your mental state chip by chip.

>>727288376

sure, if you can replace it with something that can keep the rest of society stable the most after abolishing something that's kept it so for a couple millenia

>>727279839
>All human effort was a waste before contracted obligations
>Humans NEED jobs
Things humans need:
Shelter
Sustenance
Mental Stimulation
Oh, look, "Employment" isn't on that list.

>>727290795
Hahaha. I've been found out

>>727290584
Still waiting for anons reply to this one. Surely he's going to reconsider his entire view of debt crises and value seeing his base assumption about money creation is wrong

>>727289436
You ask for a loan from your bank and the bank approves or denies the loan - if it approves it gets the currency from the entral bank. All curreny comes from the central bank.
The central bank creates the currency and loans it to the "private" bank (at interest) for the bank to lend it to you (an higher interest).

>>727280910
>Everyone has opportunities
two sentences later
>I was given the opportunity to invest
lmfao
cute

>>727290584
>reproduces human being then
Human captal? I suppose, but I was thinking more like gold / silver, property, land, other valuables etc.

>What has government debt to do with this?
You asked for my definition of value. value is the opposite of gov debt. antithetical.

>Capital is resources invested to create more capital
Sure. Its also gold / silver, property, land, other valuables etc.

>Like I said most money is created by commercial banks making loans
Commercial banks approve (or deny) loans and allow for newly created currency to enter circulation. Your central bank creates the currency (The Bank Of England or The Federal Reserve) See: >>727292031

>>727292441
>>727289436
>>727288702
>>727287597

Watch these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrJGlXEs8nI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

File: Tesla_circa_1890_slideshow.jpg (221KB, 718x962px) Image search: [Google]

221KB, 718x962px

Tesla was on the verge of figuring this very problem out when he died. As far as I know in what I read for maybe 5 minutes, he was trying to figure out a way to use the molecules in the air as a source of indefinite, free power. This would essentially free us from ever having to work slave labor jobs again since energy would be completely free and completely self sustainable. I've thought about it for a while and it fascinates me. Think about it. A machine that creates energy from the very air we breathe. It would be groundbreaking. The only problem is, we know who wouldn't want this happening. We know who will fight tooth and nail until the very end to see Tesla's vision of free energy for everyone never become reality.

If you really want to not work again, anon, I suggest looking into Tesla's research into the matter I described (admittedly poorly), but you get the idea. If we can pull this off, work as we know it will become a thing of the past. Tesla, although dead, holds the key to our salvation.

>>727280593
Sure wish I had taken that opportunity to be given a position in my family business and enough money to invest.
Oh, wait, I never had that opportunity. Mine was minimum wage bagger for Publix that can't fully support myself let alone any risk. Damn I should've invested all that money I was using to feed myself or my time that I was using to sleep into something that would let me retire at 25.
I HAD ALL THESE OPPORTUNITIES, MAN. WHY DIDN'T I RETIRE AT 25?!?!?!

People don't hate you because you're 'set up', Anon. We hate you because you actually think that everyone had opportunities to better themselves and that they didn't take them.

I got a neat story out of my opportunities (got to climb inside a trash compactor that was jammed and I could have died if it unjammed at the wrong time). You got retirement.

The opportunities available are not equal and your implication that they are (or even that they exist) is infuriating to some people.

http://www.whywork.org/
(Hail Eris)

people work to pays others for goods/services that they themselves dont want to do or have the ability to do. grow food. makes clothes.

you dont have to do anything.

>>727280122
>why is there such a stigma associated with that kind of attitude?
Because if there wasn't we wouldn't all be consumerist materialist drones slaving away for the newest iPhone that we don't need and the multinationals wouldn't be able to stockpile money, that's why not

>>727292613
Okay I agree that money is debt. One of the video descriptions confirm my thesis about commercial banks creating money:

"When banks extend loans to their customers, they CREATE money by crediting their customers' accounts." - Sir Mervyn King, Speech to the South Wales Chamber of Commerce at The Millennium Centre, Cardiff on 23rd October 2012

File: 1490538749859.jpg (39KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 500x500px

>>727279263
If there was no jobs like we have today there would also be nothing to buy because no one would make it and no one would have money to trade anyway. So how do you eat and stay warm. You'd have to work all day just to make some shitty butter for your shitty home made bread. No one's paying you for that time you're just trading your time for goods meanwhile someone who makes better bread for a living can make bread for everyone at a much cheaper cost, but that would mean he would have a job. I can go on but if you don't get the point by now you're fucking stupid to get the point anyway so why bother.

The general point is either you could make everything you use every day for yourself, which is hugely inefficient, or you be a part of fucking society and just get a job

>>727280326
Being homeless is harder than any job you could possibly find. You see those assholes begging they are there all day and sleeping there all night, that look like fun to you?

>>727294111
Your statement was so stupid I'm not even checking your trips. Seriously what are you fucking 13 years old? You think things you need just fucking fall out of the sky.

>>727294382
>people working to create food
>people all over the world starving

Meanwhile
>more cars than people
>more mobile devices than people
>half the world's population don't drive and/or can't afford a mobile device

Try harder faggot.

>>727280563
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>>727294628
lol alright then. I'm just making the point that everyone lives way above their means so no apparent reason. I pay my rent, buy my food and just exist and I'm quite happy. I have clothes that I've had for years, shoes with holes in them, a phone that can call people and a rust bucket car and I don't give a shit what anyone thinks.

>>727294292
Yes they create the need for the currency to be borrowed from the central bank. The central bank literally prints the bank notes or computes them into existence (these days). All new currency entering circulation is from people borrowing from commercial banks but those banks get the currency from the central bank. Thats why bank notes have "The Bank Of England" on them rather than "Barclays Bank" or whatever bank you are with.

The central banks sets the interest rate that all commercial banks can borrow currency from them at. Since so much has already been borrowed that there is no way to every pay it back and the currency will continue to be devalued with expansion of the currency in circulation (inflation) to the point where it is worthless. Since it is already so valueless that you cant buy a house or raise a family - we are already there and the whole system is effectively on life support with these bailouts.

Also the government can write up a bond (for a billion for eg.) and take it to the central bank and get a billion £ or $ or whatever for spending on governemnt services.

>>727281301
Different anon but if anyone takes full advantage of their opportunities they could become a millionaire, lets say a bum robs a few liquor stores, then he could use that money to plan a bank heist or invest in something worthy and so on

File: 9.jpg (1MB, 2917x2500px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2917x2500px

>>727279263
right, if you are serious then no, you do not need a job.

Provided that you are completely self-sufficient; You can build your own shelter, procure your own food then you obviously do not need to work.

Now if your aspiration is to achieve higher levels of comfort and the use of luxuries such as plumbing, internet, high-tech goods then you will also need to be able to produce some sort of good or service to barter with in exchange for stuff.

(Or you could steal or beg, but depending on where you live, this might be illegal.)

You could argue that you are in fact sufficient at procuring food, able to build a kick-ass shelter, live in a climate where central heating is not an issue (or you have access to free firewood and the means and knowledge to make said fire) and that you can produce electricity using your superior brain and a wind or water generator and you have the time, energy and resources to create a fully functioning plumbing system.

This all sounds like work doesn't it?

Not to mention the fact that, even though I assume that you are the McGyver of DIY gods, your handiwork will probably need maintainance.

So, work basically.

The reason why we work is not because some corporate shitlord has decreed that we must work in society.

It's just that historially if you did not do anything productive in society you would generally starve or freeze to death. Ove the years we build communities and trade networks and developed currency so we could exchange goods and services around the globe.

Now we work to gain tokens so we can purchase those goods and services. We also built a social welfare network so that if you are unable to work then society will help you, because we have reached a communal consensus that we should take care of our old, weak and vulnerable.

If you are simply lazy and want people to work so you can get free shit then this system breaks down, and that is why you get ostracized by the population when you try it

>>72729158

ITT: Mostly middle class upbringing white guys in their early 20s from first world nations that grew up safe, sheltered and well fed, and have no real concept of how much of a struggle day to day survival is for the vast majority of our species.

>>727295621
No offence /b/ro but seems like you've been there

File: dGB0e.jpg (30KB, 555x644px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 555x644px

>>727279263
I think the only "real" work that exists is the work you do to sustain yourself/those you also choose to work for. I suppose this would mean obtaining food, shelter and other necessities.
However, in most of the western world we subscribe to capitalist economic theories. These tend to create some unreal wage inequality over time, but otherwise work out very well for governments and those who are already in powerful positions economically.
The society we live in now is outdated. Humanity has been given several choices in regards as to how construct their social systems, and we collectively decided that one that favors a minority while absolutely squashing everyone else. This creates incentive for those who are squashed to work harder for those in power, as the downtrodden feel they can make it farther up the ladder (which, while difficult, is not always impossible).
The fuel of this system is currency. Currency, at it's most basic, is an illusion. there's no such thing as money. The only reality is the value that one chooses to bestow upon a given object. Money is the liaison for that value.
People work hard to get to the top of the societal ladder for an illusion. Meanwhile only those at the top are benefited. Stolen labor.
If Homo Sapiens wish to continue as a species and evolve further, we must embrace mechanization. R. Buckminster Fuller wrote a beautiful series of books on the subject of destroying the current socio-economic system and replacing it with an automated post-scarcity economy. I would really recommend the read.
Also look inot economic mutualism and authors like Robert Anton Wilson.

>>727295903
this

>>727279263
this whole thread needs to check out "Zeitgeist, the Movie"
anyone who denies this movie denies the future of humanity.
assuming we don't all die.

>>727279839
go back to your Republican hut and watch Zeitgeist, the Movie

>>727296208
We will all die. Eventually.

>>727295156
>Yes they create the need for the currency to be borrowed from the central bank. The central bank literally prints the bank notes or computes them into existence (these days). All new currency entering circulation is from people borrowing from commercial banks but those banks get the currency from the central bank.
I'm going to need a source on this. BoE contradicts you on this
"Rather than banks receiving deposits when households save and then lending them out, bank lending creates deposits" … "In normal times, the central bank does not fix the amount of money in circulation, nor is central bank money 'multiplied up' into more loans and deposits."

>>727296208
No one should get their world views from documentaries.

>>727296460
Watch the videos.

>need a source
Wikipedia "central bank". the first sentence is: "A central bank, reserve bank, or monetary authority is an institution that manages a state's currency, MONEY SUPPLY, and interest rates."
Its a fact. Its been this way for centuries. This is what central banks do. Its well known. Thats why banknotes have The Bank Of England on them. Because the bank of England creates them. Its the same in any given country.

Then Theres the "Bank Of International Settlements" (which is a central bank of central banks) and "The World Bank" and the "International Monetary Fund".

High street banks are wayyyyy down the food chain and are there to take the flak when the shit hits the fan.

Commercial banks only borrow and lend they don't hold anything in reserve, ever. Your account balance doesnt exist. Its being gambled and lost on the stock market, but dont worry - you rbank will get bailed out. If the bank wins the gamble the executives get a fat bonus.

You are an unsecured creditor of your insolvent bank via your account deposit. Your bank can delare bankruptcy at any time and you cannot claim your money, because its not yours anymore - once you give it to the bank. Its like an investment in an insolvent company that has failed already. Google : "unsecured creditor of my bank"

>>727297534
>Watch the videos.
If I'm gonna be honest with you I'm not going to sit through 3 1/2h documentaries to find that claim anon. And the (non cited) remark that a central bank manages money supply doesn't determine it has sole monopoly on creating money

>>727279263

Because food needs to come from somewhere you degenerate fucking sweat goblin.
Maybe you think all the stuff you use everyday is beamed from the heavenly warehouse and your parents just want you out of the house so they can bang on the kitchen counter again, but I assure you someone actually needs to physically MAKE the stuff you take for granted.

>>727280593
>came from a well-off family, I was given a cushy position in our company

>Because I was smarter than them

Naw dog, just naw

>>727280450
You know, he did say he didn't want any of that stuff. And he is currently working while hating it. It's not entitlement, it's ungratefulness

File: 100715-peanuts-embed-1.jpg (188KB, 480x576px) Image search: [Google]

188KB, 480x576px

There's a lot of angry wagies ITT

>>727298465
Another one who didn't bother to read the thread.

I know how shit gets made because it's my fucking job to make it faggot, and I hate it.

>>727299922
Everything in this post is true. Changes nothing though.

That's a petty OP

File: 061901FD-F42E-4D35-9265-02F81F2CBEB7-6863-0000098255664526_tmp.jpg (51KB, 563x436px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 563x436px

It's easy OP, go innawoods. Build off the grid housing far away enough that nobody will bother you.