Hey, anyone up for a good Jesus discussion/debate? I feel like

CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB CHUB

well to start i heard there aren't really any scriptures written about jesus during when the bible took place. i think perhaps the question is there god would be a better conversation starter. even broader than that, is there life after death

File: Glasses.jpg (32KB, 500x494px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 500x494px

To know Jesus you need to study the hidden chapters of the bible which talk about his life in further depth, a lot of it is still unknown even then. Basically get into /jesusconspiracy/ shit (no it's not a real subshit afaik) but there's a ton of things unseen which add to the depth of the character. What you might not know is of this complexity, Jesus in the bible says the stories directly reflect his own life, not just the chapters written about his life but most of the stories in the bible overall. This is not actually a conspiracy bit, it just states that shit in there. Within that we can see that there's a bit of an oxymoron within the chapter and things said about Jesus as they are reflected upon many of the stories of the bible. What you can take from this is, take a story out of the bible and see which person you think Jesus was from it, and then decide if those stories and which character from a particular story you think he was makes any fucking sense at all. Let me know what you think about this, seriously, because I am too afraid of talking about it in public.

>>727254667
Well, whatever works. I'm just looking for a good talk.

Jesus was probably a bro. Like all celebrity stories blown way out of proportion which was kinda left escalating for 2000 years, but still. He was probably a bro

>>727255132
I don't know man. A lot of the Bible is a bit confusing. You've got all kinds of supposedly lost books (enter Gnosticism) and such that say that the story was way different than it really is, then you've got the Dead Sea scrolls which say that the Bible is okay, and was translated correctly...I don't know man. I just read the stories I have and try to be as good of a person as I can. I fail a lot though.

File: IMG_3684.jpg (163KB, 1600x1066px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 1600x1066px

>>727255132 OP I demand a response, you lil shit.

>>727255605
Well, when you look at his teachings, I'd say he was more than a bro. Someone that in-tune with the Universe has something cool going on.

>>727255797
Well yeah but I'm working on the assumption that the stories were embellished, which they obviously were, to the point where they started transforming into these parables. I'm not a bible expert but I don't think there's a lot in there about any of his faults, i.e. if you look at it as a biography then it's obviously biased

>>727254300
>I'm pretty sure there's gonna be at least a few loudmouthed idiots here on both side.
>idiots here on both sides
>both sides

yup

>>727256204
Possibly, but like I said, you don't get that good with the flow of the Universe without knowing a thing or two.

File: rurouni-kenshin-1788389.jpg (145KB, 800x1329px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 800x1329px

>>727255659 But I want to hear your opinion on at lest this paradox, which maybe I should have stated more clearly. Jesus is the figure head of the religion yet within it and of taking stories from the bible as reflections of himself there is probably no way that he could have lived a life free of sin, other than every "good" in the bible being him and every "evil" being Satan, which if you study it doesn't actually make sense. Basically the paradox is that Jesus, or the character in the bible written as Jesus if true that the stories reflect his life then he must have sinned. So that Jesus was yet another allegory upon a life of a man who had many allegories written about him and prophesied about. You mentioned Gnosticism which is good because while the Bible gets into a genetic line of humans that gets even more so into trying to figure out genetic bloodlines of deities or demons whatever you wish to call these beings. Basically, all of humanity is playing a game of telephone (if you know it, basically hearsay) that has been going on about past deeds that they wish to still be true for so long that we're all on unconnected lines. This is just something to think about, but remember that within all of this, Christianity or even Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Paganism whatever the fuck you want there is a spiritual side of life, and an interconnected (within spirit to the physical) side of this world which has been sought after whether for control or worship for so many years that regardless of the full truth of any one of there there's an interconnected truth that binds them all.

For what it's worth, I'm not a practicing christian but I like him, or the idea of him or whatever. Christianity gets a lot of shit this day and age but if you get down to it there's some decent core values in the whole thing

>>727256204
>I don't think there's a lot in there about any of his faults

It would be considered heresy to claim that god in the flesh had any faults. Any faults he might have had would be considered 'good' traits because god is suppose to be all good. Anything he does/is has to, by definition, be good.

That included drowning a dudes pigs and burning down a fig tree. Oh, and genocide on multiple occasions.

Jesus was a good dude who had kids and lived as moral of a life as possible while questioning and rebelling against the establishment (i.e. the government and parasitic money changers). He can be viewed as a bodhisattva but most of the bible is pure fantasy.

>>727257128
yeah but the hand full a
of good stuff is swimming in a sea of some truly horrible shit, no religion is perfect but modern Christianity is a far cry from the barbarians who used to practice it

>>727257128
A few, but it stole those core values from older religions. The golden rule was around for a long, long time before Christianity. The only thing 'new' in the whole thing is monotheism. All the other concepts were around long before Christianity.

The Jesus of the Bible never existed, which is probably for the best given that he was kind of a cunt at times.

>>727257380
Yeah well that's the whole shit isn't it, the biggest problem isn't the religion it's the people practicing it
>inb4 islam is not a religion of peace
I'm not getting into that mess I don't know shit about islam and I don't really care

>>727257418
Is that important? If you live by good values who cares where they come from?

>>727256766
>Basically the paradox is that Jesus, or the character in the bible written as Jesus if true that the stories reflect his life then he must have sinned.
I'm a bit confused here, where does it state that he sinned/where do you think he sinned
>"good" in the bible being him and every "evil" being Satan, which if you study it doesn't actually make sense.
Evil isn't necessarily just "SATAN SATAN SATAN oh it's all the devil's fault!" I believe that innately, all humans carry a certain aspect of "good" and a certain aspect of "evil" in them. Jesus and Satan serve more as mediums...whispers, if you will, to focus you one way or another.
> there is a spiritual side of life, and an interconnected (within spirit to the physical) side of this world which has been sought after whether for control or worship for so many years that regardless of the full truth of any one of there there's an interconnected truth that binds them all.
I absolutely agree. I think that most religion is just people trying their hardest to pin down "God," which is an abstract concept. A book, a hymn, or an argument cannot in the least begin to touch on the greatness of something powerful and intelligent enough to create an entire Universe. I just think that Christianity is the most accurate belief out there, and that's why I follow it, but it still barely touches on the magnificence of a creature such as God.

Cool dude who was ahead of his time, btw is there any good documentaries about Jesus as historical person?

>>727256766
Or humans made of gods, spirits and demons to explain the world around them since they couldn't figure it out. Through tradition and child indoctrination the superstitions continued to propagate and spread, eventually leading people with some influence to create communities of like minded people who adhear to strict rules passed down by the spirits/gods, or so the person claimed.

If someone from the present time was sent back to the time when Jesus was supposedly around and we showed them the technology we had today, we'd be regarded as either a god or a demon.

>>727257528
Almost all historical scholars believe he existed, regardless of religious views you ignorant pleb.

>>727257605
>Is that important?

It is if people are accusing you of stealing morals from their religion. Or if they try to pressure into accepting more from said religion.

To me, it doesn't really matter. To others, it matters a lot. Ever heard of presuppositionalism? Fucking annoying shit.

>>727258034
You dumb nigger
A Jesus may have existed but the stories of him in the Bible are false. Also, since there is no evidence for him, scholars believing it probable doesn't mean he actually existed

Doctorate in History, btw
You need to relook at what historians who study that period actually say

>>727254300
When questioning whether Christianity is true, the first question you need ask is: why this specific religion? How is this religion different from any other? What makes it so special?
The answer, of course, is absolutely nothing. You don't need to believe in Christianity to believe in some sort of God or creator or higher power. There is literally only one reason people believe in Christianity: they were raised to. Nobody grows up an atheist and becomes a Christian.

>>727258179
Eh I guess you're right but I'm not too interested in discussing what other people do with their beliefs so to me, no, it's not important

>>727257959
Yeah, and in some ways we would be. You can't just interrupt time like that. The point of civilization is to go at pace, not to shoot ahead by thousands of years at a time. At any rate, you do bring up a good point, I believe that God is just the greatest scientist in existence, understanding things at levels that will always be unfathomable to human beings, and thus he is regarded as "magical" because we can't understand the logic behind how he functions.

>>727258304
>no evidence for him.
Historical documents and arrest records.
>Doctorate in history
Where the Hell did you go to school?

>>727258364
Not really man. I was given the choice. This just makes the most sense, God is the most "human" of all religious deities I know.

>>727258364
>Nobody grows up an atheist and becomes a Christian.
untrue

>>727258641
Wrong, there are none of those types of documents. There are no extra biblical accounts at all. Or you could provide them.

I went to Brown

>>727258764
he is petty, jealous, vengeful, intolerant and self centered, so yes he would be the most human

>>727258364
Fucking false. I grew up an atheist and now I'm basically an amalgamation of christianity and daoism

>>727258938
so are the Pantheon of all other religions. probably more so.

Why are Atheists so angry at God?

>>727258406
>I believe that God is just the greatest scientist in existence

Well if he did exist he would have to be. He is all knowing right? Wouldn't make sense that he wouldn't know about the universe and the natural laws considering he's suppose to have created it (despite the evidence showing the universe originated from a big bang event). However the universe god 'created' is shit to be blunt.

>understanding things at levels that will always be unfathomable to human beings

Why? Oh, right. Because your god didn't want us to understand.

>and thus he is regarded as "magical" because we can't understand the logic behind how he functions.

First off, we don't even have evidence he exists. If you can't show something exists of course you can't understand how it functions. And aren't you suppose to call him "miraculous"? Thought magic was banned in the bible, the whole "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and all that. Not that I believe in magic mind.

>>727258938
Give me examples of this.

>>727258401
Fair enough mate.

>>727259240
Because most Atheist don't just "Not believe," they refute his existence as "unfair."

>>727259240
yeah. if they don't believe why do they hate Him

>>727258947
>I'm basically an amalgamation of christianity and daoism
First of all it's Taoism, so clearly you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Second, Taoism is an atheistic philosophy, not a religion, so that's like saying you're an amalgamation of Christianity and Confucianism.
You're obviously a kid who thinks he's deep and wise but in reality you're just naive.

>>727259240
We aren't angry at something that doesn't exist.
Are you angry at Farquad?

>>727259412
>>727259404
They aren't, that's just what religious people believe.

>>727258764
>I was given the choice. This just makes the most sense
If you weren't told growing up that Jesus and God were real, there's no way you would come to that conclusion as a free-thinking, intlligent adult.

>>727259240
There are no real Atheists, just Christians who have rejected the holy light because they are rebelious like children. I think it's probably because something bad happened to them.

>>727258641
>Historical documents and arrest records.

By that i think you mean

>the bible

The bible is not evidence that the bible is right. Or do you not know that? Considering the numerous contradictions I wouldn't trust anything it had to say regarding history, never mind when it came to spirituality.

>>727258764
Except all the Roman and Greek gods. They're far more human than the god of the bible is. Did you never read a book about the Greek gods? Zues, Hades, Athena? No? Go read one man. Good shit.

>>727259887
that's how the term greek tragedy began, with those crazy deities

>>727259427
Buddy, the common translation is taoism yeah, but the sound of the first letter in the original is actually somewhere between a 't' and a 'd'. Daoism is not an uncommon alternative and I just sort of got used to using it. Secondly, you can pull assumptions out of your ass about what you think I think all you want but it doesn't add much to whatever point you think you're making. I'm not a genius, and I fail at following my own beliefs every other day. But the point is, when it comes to the morality side of it, I can align myself really well with their way of thinking. That's all there is to it

>>727259682
>There are no real Atheists, just Christians who have rejected the holy light because they are rebelious like children
>thinks we would choose to burn in hell for all eternity if we believed it was real

Either you're retarded or...no, you're just retarded.

>>727259682
nice b8
>>727259711
Exactly. Once you start looking past the scientific and historical contradictions, the internal contradictions are hilarious. Even in the several centuries after the supposed events when people were putting the Bible together and deciding what to leave and what to omit, they didn't once bother to edit it.

>>727259276
> the universe originated from a big bang event
Oh, seriously? I had no idea. Of course, when I think about it, energy and matter can be created right? As per first law of Thermodynamics, right? Oh...oh wait, it's the opposite you blithering idiot. If there IS nothing there can BE nothing. Now, a "Big Bang" may have occurred, but something would have had to set it in motion.
>Your God didn't want us to understand.
No, that's not our job. We're supposed to live in what has been created and learn to love each other. We are not God, and we are meant to recognize his authority.
>Don't have evidence that He exists
Of course not. We also don't have evidence that TIME exists, do we?

If Jesus was real, would he have been happy or disappointed I'm the Crusades?

>>727260044
Fucking love those guys. Those are some gods I wish actually existed. Life would be way more interesting.

>>727259539
I don't angrily yell at people for believing in Bigfoot, but I've been beaten for my religion, called "ignorant," and persecuted in a lot of ways.

>>727259634
Lots of people have, and do every day, just like a lot of people drop out of the faith. That's like saying that because I never ate ham growing up I will never like ham.

>>727259887
I've read them. They were all angry at humans, constantly, slaughtering them without reason, even if you were on their "good side." Besides that, do you really think that that many powerful beings trying to work together wouldn't ultimately just try to kill each other off to become supreme?

>>727260258
There is evidence time exists, you fucking idiot. By the way, you cannot lecture on physics at the moment of the Big Bang because physics break down at that point. You haven't a clue what you're on about.

>>727260566
Well, believing in things that aren't proven or not examining the lack of evidence when it comes to religion is ignorant. I doubt you faced any real persecution if live in the U.S.

File: adolf_hitler.jpg (27KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 640x360px

>>727254300
I believe Jesus is real, and it's unlikely God is fake since Jesus could walk on water and do all those miracles.
Besides, God or no God, Atheists usually have very poor understanding of morality, since Atheism doesn't teach anything beneficial like other religions. It's plainly obvious since Atheists are responsible for some of the worst genocides in history.

>>727260258
>ignores the existence of virtual particles

>Now, a "Big Bang" may have occurred, but something would have had to set it in motion.

Nothing could have set it in motion. There was no 'before' the big bang.

>We're supposed to live in what has been created and learn to love each other.

Except all those times your god wanted his followers to kill people. Other than that we're suppose to love each other.

>We are not God, and we are meant to recognize his authority.

by that of course you mean

>be his eternal self-imposed slaves

>Of course not. We also don't have evidence that TIME exists, do we?

The fact that we can accurately measure time and the effects gravity has on it means we don't know if it exists or not? Okay den.

>>727261015
correlation is not causation

Jesus raped me. It hurt.

>>727260911
They have killed each other off. Did you not hear about how Zeus came to power? Besides, they're family.

>>727261222
There's a little bit of Jesus in all of us. He came into you so you can spread his love unto other

>>727261015
Hitler was Christian
Most genocides were from religious men

Atheism has no morality. People generally follow the morals of their surroundings, not religious ones. Hitler was anti semitic due not only to Christian teachings in Europe at the time but also due to the anti Semitic climate of the period.

>>727254300
The government and your isp are monitoring your online activity http://www.ipanon.com

>>727260930
> By the way, you cannot lecture on physics at the moment of the Big Bang because physics break down at that point.
Then why bring it up? It's a moot point. Newtonian physics can only go so far, and proving/disproving God isn't in there. Also, time is a hotly debated concept in physics and it's said to be millions of different things, so effectively, we can't really say time exists or what in the Hell it is.
> I doubt you faced any real persecution if live in the U.S.
I've been beaten for it, I've been yelled at for it, and I've had authority figures treat me like crap for it.

>>727261302
what love?

He had no problem with slavery and his sermon on the mount was filled with immoral teachings.

File: bullshit.gif (868KB, 499x289px) Image search: [Google]

868KB, 499x289px

>>727261015

>>727261015
Gr8 b8 m8. 8/8.
"I don't know how to argue logically so Christians are bad and dumb look at this genocide"

>>727261458
What? Time is clearly defined in physics. You just don't understand it

Also, this is clearly b8

>>727256442

>>727261618
i didn't say that dude . . .

Aaand the thread derailed right into shitsville. Well it was nice while it lasted, op

>>727254300
You might be on about a Jesus debate, but organized religion as a whole is just complete bullshit. As other OPs have mentioned, if you look at the history of humanity, religion is nothing more than a led humanistic guess to explain the unexplainable. Christianity actually did borrow a lot of it's parables from older religious texts and stories. The basic break down of most all religions is, we can't explain how a certain thing is happening, so let's chalk it up to something that is all powerful and all knowing. And, if some sort of view doesn't fall into our interpretation of how this raped text written and rewritten by hundreds of people over centuries, well they're missinterpreting things and going to hell.

>>727261127
>Big bang was a crappy argument anyway, we'll get nowhere here.

>God wanted his followers to kill people
Oh, you mean the guys that stole their land, raped their women, and used their carcasses as decoration? Jesus, wonder why they killed them...
>Eternal self imposed slave
>slave
>Without choice
>We have a choice, your argument has a huge hole in it.
>We can accurately measure time
We can measure what we perceive as time.

THIS IS NOW A SPIDERMAN THREAD!!!
THIS IS NOW A SPIDERMAN THREAD!!!

>>727261276
Yeah, and that's a crappy way to come to power. Furthermore, they ALL would kill each other, by nature.

>>727261850
Sorry, man.

>>727261951
humanistic?
Except for those who didn't belong to the tribe. They weren't humans and you could make them your slaves.