The European longsword or the samurai's katana? which is better?

Yo moma's dick

>>726253929
apples and oranges. better at what?

depends on you fighting style.

>>726254132
at killing someone

Each is better for its intended purpose.

/thread

>>726253929
Katana, but only if skilled fighter.

Broadswords are just brute force. Both will kill you.

>>726254246
What's better for building things?
Hammer or Screwdriver?

See what you did there?

>>726253929
Vs eachother i feel like the katana would win... depends on the people fighting though,

>>726254278
Stop watching anime!

>>726253929
If armored Longsword
If exposed katana. Any form of mail would stop the katana dead.

>>726253929
are you killing someone in wooden armor or steel armor?

>>726253929
The Katana slashes and thrust better than the european longsword. But in terms of class, the rapier will be above all these, so it's the best.

>>726254334
Again, each is better for it's intended purpose. Hammer is better for hammering, screwdriver is better for driving screws. Retard

>>726254371
I'm talking nihonto

>>726254371
*teleports behind you*
nothing personal kid

The one made with better materials

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>>726253929
stop meme'ing

>>726254858

There's a reason samurai also had a mace type weapon

>>726254858
katanas are made to slice flesh, not to fight blade to blade. That's why they are razor sharp, using them for fencing would be as smart as using a flamethrower as a hairdryer

>>726254858
pretty much this. I'll never understand why people have this unfounded infatuation for the katana. A longsword of the same time period not only used better steal, it also had handguard which would be used with halfswording against armor. I knight in full armor vs a samurai in full armor wouldn't even be a contest. The samurai would have literally no answer for the knight's "advanced technology."

If I had to go on a 1vs1 to the death with a random opponent, I would choose longsword. You see, if I'd choose katana and opponent isn't armored, then I'm good. If he is, well I'm fucked. If I'd choose longsword, if he isn't armored then I'm good. If he is I'm still pretty good.

>>726255507
+1 to this comment

In a duel a rapier would be my go to btw.

The gun. Hands down the gum.

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>>726255093
>>726255174
Sure, the katana was pretty good when fighting small Asian people without proper armour.

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>>726254850

scimitar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY8oMD0KCE4

>>726254420
100% false. A katana can pierce 2inches into a knights plate. It was tested on a myth busters like history channel show.

https://youtu.be/EDkoj932YFo

Katana end of debate

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>>726253929
Rapier & buckler, hoes.

Katana is better to slice unarmed and unarmored farmers. European sword is better to stab through chainmail and plate.

>>726256598
Is that the one video where the longsword is dull as fuck?

>>726256476

yeah, and that show had fake armour, and the guy using the longsword wasn't using anywhere near the right techniques on the sword. he was a katana expert.

>>726253929
>Springfield 1911

>>726256741
>>726256809
Aww, actual field tests aren't good enough for you guys now?

Get rekt. Katana masterrace.

>>726253929
Katana is meant for rapid precise strikes

Broad sword for muscley manly cleaving of bitch heads

So it really depends on OP which is better.

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>>726256907
>actual

>>726253929
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFu11mSutd0
That's all you need to know.

>>726256907
Go talk to any arms and armor historian or someone who studies the art or blades and you will find 9 of 10 will say the broad sword is better. The katana was a product of stubbornness and it was good at 1 thing. But the best way to kill a man was to keep him far away and just stab him.

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>>726256598
>Sword """"""""""""expert"""""""""""""
>Trying to cut metal armor.

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Gomenasai, my name is Ken-Sama.

I’m a 27 year old American Otaku (Anime fan for you gaijins). I draw Anime and Manga on my tablet, and spend my days perfecting my art and playing superior Japanese games. (Disgaea, Final Fantasy, Persona series)

I train with my Katana every day, this superior weapon can cut clean through steel because it is folded over a thousand times, and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth. I earned my sword license two years ago, and I have been getting better every day.

I speak Japanese fluently, both Kanji and the Osaka dialect, and I write fluently as well. I know everything about Japanese history and their bushido code, which I follow 100%

When I get my Japanese visa, I am moving to Tokyo to attend a prestigious High School to learn more about their magnificent culture. I hope I can become an animator for Studio Ghibli or a game designer!

I own several kimonos, which I wear around town. I want to get used to wearing them before I move to Japan, so I can fit in easier. I bow to my elders and seniors and speak Japanese as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond.

Wish me luck in Japan!

>>726253929
Longsword. Just as sharp as a katana, and made of better material and build.

>>726257899

Don't forget to commit seppuku.

>>726257771
My European and Japanese history professor tripled majored in Euro History, Jap history and some major revolving the evolution of weaponry.

He often spoke of the katana as the greatest weapon barring guns and nukes.

>>726256598
>>726256907
2:13
You can easily see that that "block" is just two solid ice blocks put together. I could split that wit a fucking spoon

>>726257899
good luck in Japan, Ken-sama!

>>726253929
longsword of course. Katana is a cheap flimsy piece of poorly made shit.

>>726258257
You can split it with a spoon but his long sword couldn't split it?

Fuck the long sword must suck.

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Deutsche Zweihänder

>>726254420
>>726256476
>any form of mail would stop the katana dead.
>a katana can pierce 2 inches into a knights plate
How is that false when he was talking about mail and you came up with plate you fucking idiot?

>>726258459
Because the long sword went against an actual solid block of ice. This video is bullshit.

>>726258693
>implying mail is stronger than plate

Boy.

>>726258536
I imagine this would cut you in half in one fell swoop.

Although you need to be Arnold at his prime to carry one.

>>726258695
Sure it is. Everything is bullshit if it proves you wrong isn't it?

>>726258760
>>726257728
>>726256598

>>726258459
4:39
You can clearly see the line where the blocks were joined

>>726254246
Don't /thread your own comment, dickhead.

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Since everyone is trying to refute the European longsword winning by talking about armour etc.

>>726256598
That looks more like a parody rather than an actual test.

>>726258848
https://youtu.be/BVCaJdYZmCU?t=1m8s

Explain this cunt

>>726258760
Mail is better suited for certain things than plate. The point of plate is to have blows "glance" off and be redirected. The point of Mail, is to stop things from penetrating the body. This is why Mail or a gambeson was usually worn underneath plate armor. I swear, the ignorance on this subject baffles me.

Depends. Katana is more of a slasher so won't do dick against period appropriate euro armour. The long sword has better reach and a stabbing tip, conferring a hefty advantage to the euro fighter assuming both fighters are wearing armor styles that match their weapon. In a fight between two equally skilled fighters with no armour, the long sword will give an advantage due to reach but not enough to make it definitely better.

Tldr; The long sword is a little better due to reach but not by a lot. A dismounted high medeavil knight would slap the shit out of a late feudal period Japanese samurai tho.

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A knight would fuck a Samurai up.

>>726253929
Personally, I'd go with the longsword looking at the pic. You've got a more effective option of a point attack and the handguard is wider.

This purely being from lots of European fencing experience a small bit of Kendo and choreographed show / stage fencing.

>>726256451
Get that objectivity and actual research out of here, it's a shitposting zone.

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>>726259170
and also, brohoof

>>726258848
>>726256598
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5tuklPjtAU

>>726257899
Basu-Noriba, my friend.

>>726258760
There's a reason that even today they use mail instead of plate to defend against shark bites. Look it up, fag

>>726259502
They use kevlar bodysuits mostly.
>diving with chainmail

>>726259327
Kek

>>726254278
Retarded weeb detected, knights literally trained since childhood

>>726253929
Longsword

If you throw bread, birds will come.

>>726253929
Longsword is clearly the winner OP

Katana-
Damage: 100%
Aesthetics: 9/10
Cost, effort and time to manufacture: $99999999999

European Long Sword-
Damage: 90%
Aesthetics: 6/10
Cost, effort and time to manufacture: Peanuts

European swords all the way

>>726259601
False. Where's your source? Here's mine - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shark_suit


"Various approaches have been attempted with materials ranging from sharp metal spikes that can deter sharks to rigid metal and plastic plating[1] but most current suits are made of chainmail."

>>726258838
Nope it weighs about 7lbs at the most
(well it's supposed too)

>>726259925
Fine you got me.

It's not like it would help anyway.

>>726259601
Kevlar doesn't help against teeth, though.

>>726260023
Would a zweihander cut a person in half if swung full force?

>>726260049
It does help though, anon.

>>726253929
The European sword is better against another swordsman and against an armored opponent. The Japanese sword is more durable and more easily repaired. Looks like those two are around the same weight but the katana might be a little heavier and have its weight more centered.

>>726260136
Ultimately though, you miss, you are dead

>>726260265
exactly, They wouldn't wear heavy ass mail if it didn't help.

>>726260049
Actually, yes, it does help. That's why they use it. It distributes the force from piercing and slashing motion, such as that created be a katana, effectively turning a katana into a low mass, blunt weapon, which seems much more effective than rigid plate, which was the original argument.

>>726254278
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

watch ONE video on jewtube from a fencing school, it will instantly prove you're a fucking reatard and should an hero

>>726253929
european is better in every way

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This thread is so full of autism

>>726256883
>M1 Garand

>>726260471
With you included

>>726260533
>AK74-SU

>>726259925
>source
>Wikipedia

I bet your high school English teacher is proud

Longsword. Durability and versatility give the fighter the edge. Over all its approximate fighter skill that will win any fight tho. So make of that what you will.

>>726253929
Whichever has more range and stabbing capability.

Slashes will only get you so far against an armored opponent. Trust me, I'm a professional LARPer.

>>726260136
Unarmored (No clothes) and if the blade was extremely sharp and also used correctly possibly. I doubt it would be a very clean cut though.

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>>726258166
>sure thing buddy

The European longsword. Katanas are for autists also one of the worst swords in general.

What about lightsabers? I think they're better than both of them

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>>726260535

All that bullshit about katanas cutting other swords into pieces is all horse shit. Notice how you've only ever seen that in cartoons and hollywood movies?

>>726260662
I bet your high school English teacher is grading your paper.

>>726260738
>against an armored opponent
Or even armed
Slashes are much easier to redirect/block compared to stabs

>>726257899
Sad to see those nice responds on a copypasta...

>>726260621
>AR-15

>>726257899
Good luck Ken-Sama, I hope you'll get laid at least once so you know what you were missing before you will inevitably an hero. When you do, don't forget to post stream on /b/. Remember, we are with you, in good times, but especially during the bad.

>>726258536
How did this get from Monster Hunter into reality??

>>726261027
They say the same about lightsabers and you dont even see them cut a single European long-sword in any of the movies

>>726261338
People back then were much bigger obviously

>>726261338
+1

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>>726253929

Those are for faggots, everybody know the superior blade is the machete

>>726253929
the spear beats both, what are you gonna do to get past an 8ft pole of pointy death?
samuri mostly used the naginata and the west favored the halbread.
swords were mainly a ceremonial status symbol or a side arm, even then western knights would opt for some form of mace or hammer.

>>726261586
parry

>>726261197
>M4

>>726261586
They did that to fight other knights. Only a fool would fight heavy armored dudes with cutting weapons

>>726261747
>ak-47

>>726261824
>Molot Vepr

>>726261586
>what are you gonna do to get past an 8ft pole of pointy death?
Catch the end in my hand, walk up and stab them with my sword

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>>726253929
Who cares about the European longsword if we can shoot every last chink with a katana to the afterlife.

>>726260742
I think it would be a very clean cut. A katana made in the 40's could (and did) cut unarmored men in half cleanly. That monster is way bigger and thinner than a katana. I imagine that with enough force it would be like swinging a razor blade.

>>726261898
>tactical nuke

>>726261975
>He simply rotates the spear to reduce your grip and stabs your eyes in

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>>726262079
>pic related

>>726261747
>M249

>>726261679
if the guy has half a brain or minimal military training it wouldn't be hard to keep you at arms length

>>726262079
>Tungsten rod fired from sattelite

>>726262046
I can imagine cutting horses with it in half.

>>726254046
spear>both

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niuweidao, bitches.
China master race win.

>>726260662
>showing you can't check their citations for yourself.

How is high school going?

>>726261824
You're supposed to name a better gun not a shittier one

>>726262166
Then I'd just unscrew my pommel and end him rightly

>>726262159
>Luger P08

>>726262346
>Hekler&Koch PSG-1

>>726262346
>Kolibri

crossbow > pike > spear > sword

Both the katana and longsword were toys for the rich who almost never actually used them.

Most of the fighting was done by poor people with spears or pikes.

>>726262346
>M1911

>>726262557
And why is that an argument against swords?

>>726262615
>tin fork

>>726261975
>Spearmen are alone

There's like 20 of them all trying to stick you man.

>>726262615
>maroszek wz38M

I own an N-PAP. Would love to build a decent AK akin to a Vepr.
But I don't kbow much about guns.

>>726262137
Good luck trying to pull back such a long and clumsy weapon while I am both closing in on you and still influencing where your spear goes.

Spears are absolute trash in a 1v1 match. They are really only effective when used by many in a formation. I only have one free hand, I cant stop 10 spears, but if it is just a solitary dude with a pointy stick he is fucked.

>>726262670
They weren't used but as a last resort after your main weapon failed.

>>726253929
GRORIOUS NIPPON STEERU

>>726253929
European sword. Because Deus Vult, and holy crusades.
But on serious tone, european sword was just as useful as katana was.
Except katana was sharper, and european sword was used with more force, while katana required much more skill to use.
Thus, broadsword is victorious, making it easier to use for inexperienced soldiers just for waving it around and war veterans who trained since their childhood alike. Combined with strong armor,
In conclusion, since european warfare consisted of heavy armor, a sword that could withstand such things was created.
And since asian warfare consisted of mostly bows, arrows and light body armor, katanas were used just for that purpose; to bypass the armor's protection and simply strike the vital points.
If it came to a fight of a european knight against a katana user, I believe that a european knight would easily chase a samurai away with his heavy body armor, or force him to resort to a mace type weapon. Otherwise, it would be a very difficult fight for a katana user.

>>726262755
>there's 20 of them
Nice duel nigga

>>726259015
Anyone notice what's interesting bout the left picture? A real weapon instead of a fucking katana.

Katana can't even get through riveted mail.

>>726259010
Are you new?

>>726261028
>Says what I said but redirected back at me

Was "I know you are but what am I?" too cliche?

katana mutch better

>>726262755
>who would win in a duel a guy with a sword or the entire roman army?

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>>726263156
>katana mutch better

>>726262298
Now that is a fun sword to use. I used to be a weeb as well as a martial artist. Tried the katana but the fuckers are heavy and clumsy compared to European swords. Then I picked up a niuweidao and fell in love. Try using the momentum of a katana strike to transition into a rounded jump kick. It sucks. If you're cheap like me, you can just pick up a 26" south american style machete from coldsteel and practice with that. It's almost as good.

>>726262946
so we're talking about rich people with problems not an actual battle?

also you're gonna have a shield too, so when you go to grab his spear he is just gonna bash you with the shield

>>726263257
He'll be 8 feet from me you retard how is he gonna bash me

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Nuff said

>>726263257
>he is just gonna bash you with the shield
Lol wut
I would be trying to stab him not smell his perfume

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>>726262779
Recreational nuclear bombs

>>726262303
Cite the source itself you uneducated faggot. Wikipedia is shit their academia.

>>726262137
>>726262328
>>726262946
https://youtu.be/vJcTD5qIZJ4
not the best vid but demonstrates how fucking great spears/polearms are vs blades.
knife-kun gives him a bit of a challenge though

>>726263509
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_IIHlFOEiI

longsword loses

>>726263501
>via 9gag.com
Fucking no

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>katana
curved cutting sword

>longsword
straight cutting/slashing sword

apples to oranges.

There were curved cutting swords in yurop like all host of turkish, hungarian or polish sabres or kilidż swords.

Katana is generally worse then yuropean and even Idian comparable because wapanese had shit steel. So while people in valley of Indus were selling crucible steel that's similar to modern machine steel in quality since 8 century, niponese were working with their shitty polutted steel.

And that's the secret, all that over-engineering of katana does not make is superior, it makes it equal to other cutting, curved swords that were simply made of better base material.

>>726253929
There is an Docu on this, In craftsman ship and weight the Katana wins, In damage ability they were the same, They pretty much came out being just as effective in battle but the Katana is beautiful and a piece of art and held a very special place in Japanese society

You might aswell compare a Audi R8 to a Lamborghini Gallardo, ones a piece of art and the other is more functional but really pretty much the same

>>726263661
>zero attempt to grab spear
It's like he was told not to so the spear would stand any chance

>>726263501
Plus, you see Aragorn wear a katana?
Nuff said

>>726263661
>bowie dude catches the spear
>dude is fucking dead

>>726254519
>thrusts better
Jej

>>726263653
What the fuck are you rambling on about? It may be shit tier academia, but every information, especially the non opinion based, is built like a scientific paper and needs citation to be published there. So it is well suited as proof.

>>726263718
>sword guy looses to spear with his own sword
What kind of cuck bullshit is this?
Those guys suck

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Dragon scimmy would easily beat both

>>726258536
That one Icelandic guy who plays The Mountain from Game of Thrones can probably wield that.

>>726263960
knife boy has a propper free hand and a lighter/shorter range and manages to grab twice, still overall not as good

>>726263960
only an idiot would attempt to grab a spear

>>726256639
Rapier is literally useless against anything that is not made for a lightly or no armor duel

>>726264421
Why?

You now have some control over the enemy's wrapon.
All you need is a short period of control to close in and stab him

>>726262433
Yeah I'd shell out over 100k just to get glorified and more accurate G3...

>>726258166
Mods this kid is underage

so he notices that when he feints a thrust your (useless?) hand which is not on your weapon or carrying a shield moves as if to grab your spear.
You then commit to a thrust and stab the fucker right in the arm that is going for your spear.

>>726263757
Label obsessed cunt

>>726254278
Your comment reveals that you have never actually held european sword in your hand.

They may look like they are blade-heavy, but there is counterweight at the other end, and the weightpoint is pretty close to the hilt. It is really agile and fast weapon.. which means despite it's size, it does not have very much power - which is not needed to kill unarmored opponents. It is fast to turn instead.

it depends. are you a normie faggot or a weeaboo.
But since i'm a weeb the katana is better

>>726264999
Wait... am I the guy with the sword or spear?

>>726265096
kek

>>726260136
If it was sharp and wielded with good technique then probably. There are stories of that happening, notably around a figure named Pier Gerlofs Donia. It would be devastating to get hit by, that's for sure. But i think the bigger advantage would be reach. Short of a polearm, nothing could touch you if you used a sword like that.

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>>726254278
>broadsword
>longsword
>getting them mixed up
>implying either are brute force

A longsword can do anything. It can parry the strongest weapons with any part of it, it can stab through chainmail, gambeson, and lammelar, it can cut through bone, its pommel can dent plate, it has excellent reach, and is fast. A katana can only parry with its sides and back and can only cut.

>>726253929
People who are into swords are gay.

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>>726267010

>People who are into swords are gay.

This.

>inb4 five requests for source proving the point

>>726253929
owning swords in 2k17 is the purest form of autism

You fags probably swing them around in front of a mirror when you're alone in your room, trying to convince yourself you look badass.

>>726267305
Also forever virgins.

>>726263017
Anyone notice the dongpiece on the right?

>>726267886
>>726267513
>>726267010
oh no, the thread has been hijacked by chads

>>726269229
*Beta detected*

>>726253929
>The European longsword or the samurai's katana?
>which is better?

Katana, because it uses a hard side and a soft side, so you can get an very sharp edge combined with flexibility.

>>726262779
Gewher Karabiner 98k

>>726270146
grab your blade and fite me peasant

>>726263046
Yes

>>726253929
My penis

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>>726270928
Knave please

>>726258760
With a gambeson underneath the flexibility and cushioning can provide better piercing protection than plate armor in many situations. Maille doesn't do much against blunt force though which denting and glancing off plate with a mace or war hammer takes a lot of energy away from the body inside.

I'd rather get stabbed at with a sword while wearing riveted maille and a thick gambeson than a cuirass.

Unlike popular belief and movies, a great sword is about 2.3 kg on average.

5lb 10oz in Fag terms

>>726269229
>Chad['s]
>implying it's not some samefag

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>>726253929
The European Longsword is obviously superior, it is what the Mongolians used to conquer Russia and central Europe because their Chinese swords were no match for the knights

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>>726271638
have fun with that crippling malnutrition faggot

>>726253929
Katana is better because looks nice.

>>726262499
Charged particle beam and an railgun

>>726253929
The longsword.

A samurai sword is only as good as the person holding it.

>>726270554
Fucking all of my lol. Bunk to all of what you said.

Do you even know why The Japanese made the katana like that? It's because good quality carbon steel is rare in Japan because they don't have good natural resources to produce it. They saved the good stuff for the blade and used what is ostensibly mild steel for the spine because it was what they had. The whole design of the sword is based around the materials, just like most of engineering. You make the best of what you've got. In the case of the katana they made something incredible, but not because it's better that way but because they had to.

Good quality European swords are 100% good quality steel. There are far better sources of iron in Europe. You talk about a hard edge and flexible back... longswords have that, but not because of their materials, but because they are differentially hardened to achieve that result. The edge is harder than the spine in longswords, just like katanas, but with NO shit metal in there anywhere. Distal taper and a long fuller gives the sword spine rigidity where needed and a reduction of weight, longswords have the exact same positives that're found in "superior" Japanese swords... with none of the disadvantages.

Katana: partial tang, single edge, prone to bending (and staying bent), bend-resistance in some swords comes at the cost of becoming brittle. Sharp as all fuck.

Longsword: basically spring steel throughout, better edge retention, more durable, hugely bend resistant, better design for thrusting, longer reach, peened or threaded FULL tang, a CROSS GUARD, also sharp as all fuck.

But curved blade! Better for slicing! It's not measurably better. Here's an introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r4q0reHAC8

Longswords > Katana in all respects.

I'm not hating on the Japanese swords at all, don't get me wrong, I'm a smith, I appreciate it for what it is, but when I see this Hollywood parroting of bullshit it grinds my gears.

>>726262615
Alien death ray

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>>726272440
>faggot
stop thy projections
I hast fun with the millers daughter in the hay stack while thoust cover your comerades buttocks with lard

>>726262779
Davy Crockett

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>>726273315
you are a vile medlar eating craven and i bite my thumb at thee!

>>726261586
Spears only work if you've got the number from preventing the dude just grabbing the fucking thing and yanking at it.

The European Longsword can cut the Katana in 2 btw. Look :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev4lW0wbnX8#t=21m47s

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>>726274156
I detest such accusations
medlar is good for thy eyes, especially while consumed in fermented form, if thy kindness knows what I mean

I am also not a craven, I hast not once defended my lords land from all sort of vile animal most bravely

Also miller is a man most brutal and physical, so buggering his sweet, sweet daughter is not a cravens job

Here is also the young and ripe neighbours farm help that I speed to mention, have hast met after dark in the fields in situations most intimate.

Alas that will mostly not be of interest for your Lordship, concerning his tastes in carnal matters, and the common gossips about his regular barrack visitations

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Rapiers replaced the long swords in a hurry and when Europeans took over China, the these Jap dwarves in China lasted a second with these ridiculous "katanas"!!!

>>726275382
oh nvm he's breaking an other longsword mb. But The european longsword can still cut a Katana in 2

>>726255329
Well considering the samurai were also wielding shit like the kanobo and aribo they would just get one of those to smack the knight around. Because plate armor may stop a blade but it doesn't stop a 35 pound rod of studded iron

A rapier will cut a jap in four pieces...

>>726274452
The majority of all fighting forces have always been spears>pikes>halberds.

This is for a reason.
If you were rich you would bring a sword incase you lost your spear.

If you were rich you would bring a sword incase you lost your spear.

Communist crap is in your head...Farmers all died, the cladded soldiers survived for twenty battles.

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>>726256476
>. A katana can pierce 2inches into a knights plate.

No. it cannot.

It can pierce 2 inches into a sheet of mild steel 1mm thick.

it can not pierce a 2.5-3mm thick hardened, tempered, and curved section of carbon steel, which is what armour was made from.

This armour in this photo? Made from that sort of steel. Completely capable of being slammed into it by a lance with a combined closing speed of 65mph, and half a tonne of rider and horse, focusing onto an area of about 1/2 inch diameter, without denting the armour.

to cut 2 inches into it would require superhuman strength.

>>726275402
millers daughter is also thy chamber maid you dalcop fopdoodle!
and the miller thanks me for bestowing my seed upon her and taking upon her my bastard.

i havent the hours to waste on such a snoutband bespawler as thee

>>726276609
>to cut 2 inches into it would require superhuman strength.

or a crossbow

>>726276781
Even most crossbows couldn´t do that.
Only heavy crossbows powered by a winch can do that.

Cruzaders foughts 12 wars in Middle East and mostly won...the muslims fought 800 wars versus Christians in Europe and lost every single wars with civilization due to their cheap wars...

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>>726276781
not even a 1,200lb crossboaw will punch through that sort of harness.

It'll punch a square hole, but it'll probably get less than an inch through before binding up on the quarrel neck.

and that's enough that it'll get stopped in the arming doublet underneath. Will leave a nasty bruise, it might cause a superficial surface wound, but it wont penetrate the body.

and that's at point blank.

at range, it'll ricochet.

at range, the only real chance you have is if the knight is mounted, a parabolic arch can drop a bolt down at a steep angle, and that hitting the legs when they're square on might have a chance of going through the cuisse, if it misses the tasset.

really it wasnt till the development of the arquebus in the late 15th C that there was a reasonable chance of a projectile weapon punching through - and even then this stuff continued for another century in use.

(meanwhile japan kept the O-yoroi for another 300 years from that date.)

>>726254278
>skilled fighter
>brute force
kys autistic weeb

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>>726257899
Howdy colorless, my name is Kenichi Smith.

I'm a 27 year old Japanese Toonaholic (Cartoon fan for you foreigners). I draw cartoons and comics on my tablet, and spend my days perfecting my art and playing superior American games. (Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty)

I train with my 1911 every day, this superior weapon can shoot straight through steel because it kicks ass, and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth. I earned my gun license two years ago, and I have been getting better every day.

I speak English fluently, both the Midwestern and the East Coast accents, and I write fluently as well. I know everything about American history and their Constitution, which I follow 100%

When I get my American visa, I am moving to New York to attend a prestigious High School to learn more about their magnificent culture. I hope I can become an animator for Nickelodeon or a game designer!

I own several cowboy outfits, which I wear around town. I want to get used to wearing them before I move to America, so I can fit in easier. I keep cool to my elders and seniors and speak English as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond.

Wish me luck in America!

Japs were five feet tall, Europeans, Swiss, Landsknecht, Scots were all seven tall and learned to carry a five pound weight in their BOTH hands from five years old...they would blow China and Japs away and they did!

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Katana a shit. Dex build for casul.

>>726267305
look at all those superior european longswords.

>>726262137
Mosin Nagant
/Thread

>>726255507
I'd choose a longsword and ram you through the first time you wound up to strike.

>>726263808
>>longsword
>straight cutting/slashing sword
idiot. it's a stabbing weapon.

>>726277666
A historical longbow will punch through historical armor. They've wrecked old shit testing it.

The longbow was the "secret weapon that wasn't secret", as it required strength training. Most armies used crossbows which had half the rate of fire, if that.

>ITT: Random autistic screechings by virgin neckbeards

>>726253929
Longsword. Europe had much better steel, and their swords were designed to actually be used in combat. Not that they were ideal weapons either. There is a reason both Japan and Europe preferred pole weapons, bows/xbows, hammers, axes...pretty much anything over a fucking sword. Even makeshift peasant weapons made from re-purposed farming tools were superior. Swords were always last resort weapons, and only suicidal fools would have tried to go into battle wielding one as their primary choice.

The Samurai themselves were actually embarrassed to be associated with their swords. It was Imperial Japan, and a largely non-Samurai (and incidentally, non-Japanese) soldiers who romanticized the katanas so much.

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>>726280194
>idiot. it's a stabbing weapon.

Ok.

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>>726254567
>nihonto

Oh, is that the Japanese word for "talking out one's ass?" Anyway, speak English. How is this not a law everywhere?

>>726253929
I'd rather have a longsword but I still would like the neckbeard cred I get with a katana.

>>726280488
>A historical longbow will punch through historical armor.

No.

I know a lot of historians. I work with those in the Royal Armouries, Leeds. A longbow, at a perfect 90 degree angle, at point blank has the same odds as a crossbow. its not some sort of "secret weapon" or whatever nonsense you imagine.

it has a lower draw weight, and less kinetic energy than the cranqeuin-winched 15th C steel spanned crossbows. It excelled in many ways - RoF, slight range advantage, and cost of manufacture, but it was in no way some .50cal rifle of its day.

>>726255329
This, so much this. When it comes to swords, look for hand protection and length. Stop being weeabo fedora twats. Katanas are the trash of the sword world. The reason they folded the steel so many times was to better distribute the impurities in the crappy steel available in Japan at the time. If any of you shit stains ever got in a swordfight, you'd end up getting a foot of longsword shoved through your head before you even got close end to hit your opponent.

>>726281517
He's right

Here is a warbow vs a gambeston
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CULmGfvYlso

plate is space age technology compared to this, and all those videos of "MUH BOW PWNSORS PLATE, KNIGHTS FOREVER BTFO" use super thick arrows, at point blank range and some sort of movie prop tin breastplate, have turned off comments and ratings

>>726281517
>>726282411

and here is a 130 lbs replica of english longbow, at almost point blank, with a historical replica arrow vs a historically accurate repica of breastplate made by a swedish blacksmith

>>726283131
well that was dunb, forgot the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej3qjUzUzQg

>>726255329
The Japanese actually manufactured some of the finest armor ever produced, and like the knights, they did not dare attempt to fight their battles with swords. They would use them as a distraction (draw-cutting) if an opponent got too close. Katanas are quite well suited for that purpose. Smart fighters did not get closer to their opponents than necessary, and they did not want their opponents getting close to them. In close range things are a lot more chaotic, and left to chance. A seasoned fighter would never put themselves in that situation deliberately, not even to put an opponent at the same disadvantage. It's suicidal.

>>726264641
You realize a spear thrust is not actually easy to grab? You you think you could simply stop the momentum with your grip? Sidestepping a spear thrust would be the best decision, because they might lose balance, you lower the risk of taking damage, and put yourself in a potentially better position.

>>726255607
What kind of sicko rapes people with a sword? I'd rather be raped with a penis!

>>726281517
>>726282411
>>726283177

and here is the crossbow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76mbOMFjlu0

It leaves dents and small holes, does not penetrate, made useless with padding

>>726283177
except that's replicas. the real deal punched right through the real deal.

Katana

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>>726256267
Whoo wee! How many a-bombs did them Jap planes carry?

>>726283749
>except that's replicas. the real deal punched right through the real deal.


no, it did not.

a handmade bow has the exact same draw weight in 2017, or 1417. a handmade cuirass of a basic 0.50% avg carbon steel heat treated to 42HrC is the same then as now.

physics has not changed. there is NO difference between these, and originals. both are equally "real".

more importantly, I have held "real" crossbows from the 15th century as part of my job. you certainly do NOT use them, without them exploding into 1001 pieces because they're fragile as fuck. this idea that people have used real ones to test and destroy surviving armour is fucking bullshit.

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>>726259428

>>726281044
Notice how your drawing depicts unarmored jesters? Yea...

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Comes at me bro

>>726285493
I don't have to sit here and listen to this foul-mouth innuendo.

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>>726285310
notice how you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about?

Yeah.

Can you say a single word about MS Thott.290?

Do you know where Swabia is?

do you know who the author was?

do you know what a Zornhau is, or Ochs, Eisenhut, schnitt, mutieren.

Here they fight with messers, god help them - does it mean a thing to you?

no. you see some clothes you cant understand and you call them "jesters".

That's pretty good evidence you know absolutely fuck all about the subject.
Kindly copy Wallerstein, and stab yourself in the dick.

>>726285991
thats some triggering right there

>>726286266
I have little patience for fucking idiots who talk shit.

>>726254420
This.

>>726256598
The problem with this video is that they are using blades of differing steel types and heat treatments. A blade made of the finest steel can still be soft as fuck and not have the capacity to cut butter if not given a decent heat treatment. And the different blades used in this video are from two very different sources. Who undoubtedly have way different processes on making the blades used. The longsword just didn't have the same edge physically, mechanically, and chemically, as the katana in the video you gave us.
And the techniques used for the longsword were just bumfuck awful. The katana was used correctly by the "martial arts expert" but no one there drew the longsword the same way in the cut. A cut made by a blade requires a drawing motion to do anything substantial, and the longsword is a part of that rule. You can clearly see that the katana is used in a sweeping/drawing motion, while the longsword was just used to bash. The point on the longsword was also much different from a real point that would be found on a historical piece, as it was almost rounded (relatively) rather than a taper to a solid point.
TLDR: Different blades, different techniques, different results

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>>726286421
Wew lad

>>726286421
Apparently not.
But did you really expect anything else here? Not that many people are going to have put much thought into fencing, atleast not enough to know of ancient manuals and authors, much less the actual techniques themselves. This is /b/ land of the anonymous retards, not german fencers.

>>726287044
expect? no, not here.

but "jester". that's the sort of brain-dead drivel that I thought went the way of the dodo 50 years ago.

>>726260266
They both weigh close to the same, and if made properly, the point of balance is close to the same

>>726286421
Then you must trigger yourself constantly. And swords still were not used as slashing weapons. Real knights or Danish warriors did not run into battle swinging swords wildly like some neckbeard faggot who watches too much TV would do. Sorry, they just didn't.

>>726262816
holy fuck how can anyone be this wrong

>>726254858

Yeah that's a retarded video. I don't know where they got their "katana" from, but having a metal failure propagate from the impact pretty much straight vertically tells you that it was probably a pretty cheap blade. Second, the swordsman himself isn't swinging properly at all, nor is he hitting with the proper part of the blade, which makes me further question the seriousness of the makers of the vid. Third, regarding the chipping itself, whether or not the blade chips is the product of a fundamental trade-off that one makes between hardness and resilience in steel.

>>726280051
What

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>>726257778
We finally meet!

>implying most plate armour weren't used for decoration

>>726253929
Depends... What's the fighter's style, prior training, and preference, and what are they going up against?

>>726276609
>This armour in this photo? Made from that sort of steel.

And built by modern armorsmith Robert Macpherson this century. It helps when you have modern technology.

>>726268142
There is only one reason for this, and I will give you two possible answers. The first is what the "historians" will tell you:

1.) The dong piece holds the weight of the armor up through the plating on the greaves.

2.) It's just not possible to wear that much shining steel and not become conspicuously aroused, so the smiths built in a cockpocket so your knightly parts don't press against the metal.

>>726258162
Godammnit it's soduku you fucking gay jen

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>>726261028
OHHH

>>726289092
That doesn't change what it is. Katanas now are made with modern methods aswell. In regards to the iron.

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>>726253929
You dropped this, OP.

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>>726273315
>>726274156
>>726275402
>>726276611

>>726254564
calling someone a retard with a comment like this is a questionable choice at best

>>726289757
modern metals like stainless steel
katana is shit

>>726288102
> I don't know where they got their "katana" from, but having a metal failure propagate from the impact pretty much straight vertically tells you that it was probably a pretty cheap blade

It was a blade made from genuine japanese tamahagane by Steffan Roth, a german smith who spent 7 years in japan training in their techniques, and is the only westerner recognised as a maker of proper nihonto.

the blade probably was worth in the region of 5-10,000 dollars.

Roth, who's also been studying kendo/aido and the sword forms for about 20 years, was also the man in the mask making the cut with it.

Katanas are sharp but not very strong. Your typical longsword wasn't as sharp but was stronger because there was some give in the steel. What's more important to you?

>>726253929
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDkoj932YFo

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>>726288102
so basically unless you hit the sword in exactly the right place your katana is kill

>>726290070
I'm saying that they have better access to iron, as well as better methods of removing impurities. BEFORE it gets to the smith.

>>726253929
A fucking firearm you smelly neckbeard

>>726289092
the only modern tool Mac uses is a gas flame instead of a coal one for raising.

the only difference in the steel is that its bought in as sheet, instead of being forged out from billet into sheet for use. Its probably slightly more accurately heat-treated, simply as Mac's incredibly picky about details. but the carbon content etc? no different.

the hammers, the shaping processes? all exactly the same.

Mac's a good guy. I've talked with him several times.

>>726260266
>The European sword is better against another swordsman
Citation needed? How would this make any sense anyway, considering that to measure if it's "better" against another swordsman the other swordsman has to lose.

>and against an armored opponent.
Depends entirely on the type of sword. They had to be made extremely narrow, nimble, and resilient before they became effective enough against full armor. This didn't happen until the mid-to-late MA. But it didn't matter, because the knight's main job was to plow down foot soldiers, not duel other armored knights with relatively-ineffective weapons.

>The Japanese sword is more durable and more easily repaired.
This one's definitely not true. They might be sturdier but are less flexible (generically), and they are definitely not easily repaired -- you can't just sharpen or smooth a katana on a grindstone -- the entire outside jacket is rigid and so it must be sharpened slowly on a smooth oiled surface, which is much more tedious.

>>726290565
katana still shit

>>726285991
>you know absolutely fuck all about the subject.

Then I'm sure you know scholarship calls into question the seriousness with which published manuals of the time should be taken.

How do you value your intellectual property if you tell everyone all your best secrets? And how on earth is your image supposed to work, considering that no martial arts school ever has anything remotely resembling that kind of move?

>>726253929
A properly made katana is much better for durability. A properly made longsword is much better for killing because of being double edged, having a more defensive hilt, being longer, and more distributed weight.

>>726256267
What game is that from??

>>726291183
>Same poster here.
Katanas are more quick, but longswords are better if the user can make time for a longer attack. I say katana.

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no match for the two handed great sword

>>726278427
I support the broadsword 100% but everything you just typed was essentially anal discharge

I'm gonna have to say crowbar

>>726267305
Source?

>>726254278
Weeb detected

>>726291090
>Then I'm sure you know scholarship calls into question the seriousness with which published manuals of the time should be taken.

And you should knw the scholarship - Galas, Jaquet, Norling, etc, have demonstrated the efficacy of the techniques.

the fechtbuch are obscure to protect their content, through the use of memonics and allegorical language. The research work of many of the translators in the last 20 years has stripped away that uncertainty and we have a pretty damn good picture of how accurate they are.

>>726273155
/thread