In once sentence explain why you are an atheist or theist? I'm

I'm an atheist for the same reason I don't believe in santa clause or the easter bunny, they don't exist.

>>724965521
Im an atheist because your argument did not make sense.. Where did god come from?

>>724965751
Except santa clause is not the same thing as god...

>>724965521
Arthur C. Clarke once said that any technology sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic.

To me, the origin of the universe is sufficiently advanced / complex / awesome, as to be indistinguishable from magic and/or unknowable by the likes of us.

I guess that makes me a theist, although I do not claim to know the nature of whatever that unknowable awesomeness might be.

>>724966033
god is absolute, we and everything in the universe is relative. He has no beginning or end

I am Agnostic because I have been shown now solid evidence to even suggest that a god be real.

>>724966226
<points to the universe> - there is your evidence.
<points to the word "god"> - what, exactly, do you mean by that? And whatever it is you mean, where the hell do you suppose such a notion came from, and what makes you think you would understand anything at all about a power capable of something as incredible as inventing a universe?

>>724966169
^

>>724966226
If you had solid evidence what would you do? You would be good instead of honest. This is why we have faith god exists we don't know it.

>>724966184
Did your mom tell you that?

>>724966492
Muslims accept that they don't know god they only know his traits like being good and merciful, god knows what we don't know. So only idiots would claim to understand god, any reasonable theist will accept the unknown whiling having faith in god

>>724966524
If you showed be definitive evidence of a gods existence, then it wouldn't be a belief. Id know for a fact that a god is real.

>>724966184
>god is absolute
Says who? I mean, he/she/it might be, but you wouldn't have any idea one way or the other. Making these grandiose authoritative claims doesn't really convince anyone of anything, not does it make you sound any smarter. So why blather on like that?

>>724966754
Exactly, no person should ever claim they know god exists but only have faith that he does and there is some kind of accountability for good and bad people

>>724966492
If you want me to be blunt...

People invented the idea of a god because they were scared that the universe didn't give a shit about them. Once they convinced themselves that their idea of god was real, it made them feel special, and less scared.

>>724965521
I'm atheist because no theist has ever proven god, and theists say other faith-based religions are wrong and less credible than their own.

Also theists squirm in their seat when I ask
>If God created everything, who/what created God?

Also I like the sense of responsibility for my actions that comes with not having a big man in the sky accept my fuckups because he made his son into a martyr. And it makes me appreciate my time with my loved ones because I believe that when they die, I'll never see them again. I grew up christian and as I got older, realized how culty religion is, and didn't like it.

I don't care about other people's religion in the sense that it doesn't stop me from liking them, unless they try to push it on me.

>>724966778
Says me, if god were relative we would be able to detect him. I am not trying to sound smart but I am interested in people's opinions

>>724966699
So, muslims claim god is good and merciful - I suppose they have that in common with the other Abrahamic religions.

But that is just one (or three? or 12?) interpretation of some human ideal of what a god should be.

This on a planet where every single creature either kills, or is killed. Where we observe natural laws like "survival of the fittest" and "the powerful devouring the weak".

Seriously, I don't think you know as much as you think you know about what this "god" thing is or might be.

>>724966990
Just because you had a bad experience in religion doesn't in any way diminish god. If you ask me who created god that would be a really retarded question because as I have said he is absolute. I would like to say though I am glad you accept responsibility, most atheists I know are lazy losers who fly through life without caring about anything or anyone but themselves.

>>724966925
>People invented the idea of a god because they were scared that the universe didn't give a shit about them.
Many different people have invented the idea of many different gods, probably for many different reasons - certainly including the one you gave.
That doesn't preclude the possibility that some part of one or more of their ideas might have been right.

... Whether or not he/she/it doesn't give a shit about us, there could still be something "godlike" out there. Even if "something godlike" just means a power far greater than we can comprehend.

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>>724966184

Evidently, though, he has a penis.

If life by default is female (x chromosome) why would God be male?

The origin of this universe may be unknown, but it's probably a natural process. It's also out of the scope of our ability to perceive since there is no "before" the universe in which a god, or anything can exist.

Nothing in the universe has shown to be absolute. Why would we expect there to be any exception?

>>724967107
Just because animals kill each other doesn't mean that god isn't merciful, if you kill to eat I see no problem in that. Please don't tell me you don't think I know as much as I do on god, I have already said these are things I have faith in, not that I know 100% without a doubt.

I believe in god, because matter doesn't simply start from nothing. For example I think God started the big bang

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>>724966699

I suspect that Islam decrees the positive qualities of God from either authority, or ad bacculum (threat of force).

>>724967701
Why do you believe that god would even be male or female, that is for animals. If god was a man surely there would be a goddess but god has no partners. He is not an animal if you ask me and so doesn't have a gender. We only refer to god as he/him because it is simple

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>>724967817

Why would God need to start the big bang when the collision of two branes could do the same thing? Our little soap-bubble is one in countless

If you want to call the universe "God" that's your prerogative, but then it's folly to assign it anthropomorphic properties like sentience, gender or interest in the moss on a speck of dust.

>>724967391
>Just because you had a bad experience in religion doesn't in any way diminish god.

That's not why I don't believe in God. (Of the two of us, the atheist capitalized God. Oh the irony.) Nobody has ever proven God to exist. You could be right, I don't believe you are. The thing about existence is that you can prove it. You can't prove nonexistence. So if one can be proven, why hasn't it?

>If you ask me who created god that would be a really retarded question because as I have said he is absolute.

So you're saying God has always existed? That's impossible. Anything with a physical form was created at some point in time.

>most atheists I know are lazy losers who fly through life without caring about anything or anyone but themselves.

This makes me sad, the atheists I know are all chill people who are just like me. I suppose, kind of like my experience with the church, there are two kinds of theists and atheists.

>>724967877
Sorry but I don't understand what is your point, are you trying to say Muslims or prophets force the believe that god is good when he might not be?

>>724967709
Not some animals. Not even a bunch of animals. But every. fucking. life. form. on. this. planet.

It either kills, or is killed, or both. All life on this planet is either predator or prey, down to the smallest and simplest plants animals and microbes.

What sort of an example does that provide? What is the message embedded? Do you think it tells us to love one another, or does it tell us to smash something with a big stick and tear bloody chunks out of it with our fucking teeth?

Tell me, again, about the merciful compassion?

>>724968151
I'm not saying that the universe is god, I'm saying he must of started it in some shape or form

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>>724968018

Actually, modern theists refer to God as male out of force of habit.

Theists tend to easily slip towards the Abramic diety (El, who did have a consort, Asherah, aka Ishtar, aka Aphrodite)

But way back when, the El priests massacred the Asherah priests and made worshiping her a capital crime.

So the modern Abrahamic religions literally do not recognize women.

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>>724965521
Religion only seems to answer one question with another. If the argument is that something created the universe then what created it? If the argument is that the deity has always existed then couldn't the same argument be made that existence has always just been? Of course our universe hasn't always just been and has a beginning, but I'd say it's likely that this isn't the only universe. A lack of current explanation for the spark of our universe or for whether there are multiple universe's doesn't seem adequate for reasoning a God. Many many things have been unable to explained in the past that are now easily explained, I figure it's just a matter of time and evolution to find these solutions. I find religion to be a lazy explanation I suppose.

>>724968176
I don't believe god to have any kind of physical form, I guess Christians or Hindus might believe that.

As a Muslim I don't believe all people who go to hell go there for an eternity with maybe some exceptions for example creating false gods or trying to be god, neither do I believe atheists can't go to heaven.

Human brains cant quantify all the physical elements in their immediate world and will evolve more, and it seems plausible there are more advanced things out there and that they potentially impacted on our existence, but with the universe being so vast and enourmous its quite amazing that we're able to do anything, let alone believe whatever it is you believe.

>>724965521
Theology level: 4chan genius

>>724965521
to me religion just causes unnecessary problems. look at the middle east "religion of peace" my ass. that place has been unstable longer than jesus had been dead. but realistically it causes more questions than answered. why do you pray to (a) god you get better from your illness, then turn around and go to a doctor and get amoxicillin for your strep? its just illogical.

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>>724968207

That's exactly my point.

We have the ability to decide for ourselves what is right or wrong, and we've done so for hundreds of thousands of years without a divine being telling us what to do.

But what God dictates according to scripture, and how God behaves (or commands) according to scripture are contrary to what is commonly regarded as good. For instance, annihilation of other tribes run contrary to reciprocity and avoidance of harm.

Modern faith is about faith in scripture, which is God's alleged words as transcribed by other humans.

It's about faith in the lies of men.

>>724965521
I'm an atheist because just because I don't knowor understand how the universe came to be doesn't mean that there is a god, let alone any of the gods of any specific religion that has ever existed on this tiny spec of blue dust we call Earth.

>>724968601
I wonder how many atheists believe in an afterlife? I don't, but I wonder the percentage.

>>724965521
Im an atheist because every religion I've tried is fucking stupid.

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>>724968299

Then what started God? If even the universe must have a cause, then God must also have a cause too.

And the force that starts the universe still doesn't get a free pass on any other attributes you may wish to assign to God. You still can't say it's intelligent, for instance.

>>724968510
>Of course our universe hasn't always just been and has a beginning
So, you are suggesting that at one point there was nothing... not just a vacuum of empty space, but literally nothingness, the absence of any "being" in the "to be" sense of the word.

Why would anything ever cease to continue not being? It defies (human) reasoning. Hence my "technology sufficiently advanced" quote.

We will never be able to understand or explain this in any meaningful way. We simply lack the capacity to. Anything less than accepting that fact, is only so much speculation and navel-gazing.

>>724968510
You don't have to associate with any religion to have faith in god. I would agree with you in many cases especially with modern Christianity the things they say and do are far different than what the original Bible told them to do. I don't believe we or any other animal or alien will ever be able to understand god or prove his existence. We just have to have faith (or not) but be good people and wait.

Agnostic

>before anyone goes full sperg on me

i lean more towards atheist, but im perfectly fine not knowing whats really "out there", no one ever has, or ever will know what happens after we die, so i just focus more on paying rent

>>724966925

It's threads like these that make me remember why I'm a nihilist.

The whole universe can't have just apparated out of nothing and the same goes for a so called "God". What proof do we have that existence is even real?

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>>724968877

An atheist afterlife is possible if we are in a simulated universe.

But given what we know of quantum mechanics, an afterlife is NOT possible if this is purely a material world.

And yes, this is to say accepting that there is a supernatural element is to also accept that the universe is simulated.

>>724965521
You know the oldest forms of religion actually made the individual God and not some separate entity. This was adopted later to trick mankind and pull him away from his true spiritually. If you feel the need for a "creator" then understand the universe and everything in it is the "creator". This includes you. You are literally made out of everything the universe is made from. You are actually the universe trying to understand itself. This is how the universe becomes self aware, through your observation. The material world does not exist unless you are there to witness it. Google "the measurement problem". This will show you how we are connected to the entire universe.
Enjoy!

>>724966184
>Something coming from nothing does not make sense.
>He has no beginning or end.

I'm an atheist because a man controlling everything from the sky is impossible

>>724968752
I 100% understand now and can agree with you on most parts but I believe even somebody who hasn't heard anybody else's opinion on god would assume that he is good and wants us to be good.

Atheist because nothing has convinced me any of these gods exist, and every religion is hilariously wrong on just about everything. The burden of proof is on theists and they fail to deliver. I'm open to believing in a god if someone can prove one exists, but it doesn't seem as though anyone is really trying.

>>724968907
I haven't thought that hard dude

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>>724968966

We can't say there was nothingness, because to say that would imply there was a time when there wasn't anything.

Time started with the big bang. There was no "before".

As to how the universe started or if it even needed a cause (again, no time in which that cause could exist) is beyond our understanding, or our ability to perceive with our limited scope.

But to infer God from an unknown is argument from ignorance, which is folly.

>>724968907
Oh, but I can say that the Universe is intelligent, if we only accept that any part of the universe is intelligent.

You, for example, looking out at the night sky, are a perfect example of the universe contemplating itself. Are you intelligent? If so, the universe is too - inasmuch as you are yourself a very tiny part of the universe.

It's not mere pedantry. Every example of intelligence within the universe, is also more proof of the total intelligence OF the universe. There are over 8 billion instances of quite clever chunks of universe just within the nearest 8 thousand miles or so of your position. You are literally surrounded in proof of the intelligence of the universe.

>>724969211
something that is relative coming from nothing makes no sense is what I meant, sorry for the confusion

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>>724968971

But why have faith in a god at all? It runs contrary to all evidence,

Indeed we are driven as social animals to be part of a bigger picture, but that's not a purpose to the universe, that's a purpose to society. We want to fit in.

So if you're going to pretend there's a god because it makes you feel better, admit that and stay honest with yourself.

>>724965521
>atheist
work hard, the more i do, the more opportunities open there doors to me.

>>724969143
Bah! The simulated universe theory is just the "old man in a robe in the sky" theory re-packaged in a Star Trek uniform.

Cool threads, blinking lights, and those slick Giordi mono-shades - but it's still just a Bible story.

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>>724969117

> Out of nothing.

That's presumptive. There was no point in which there was nothing.

>>724969266
You need to understand the difference between believing and knowing. No theist will ever be able to prove his existence, that is kind of the whole point if you ask me. I personally don't mind if you want to go on being an atheist as long as you're a good person and are responsible

>>724965521
i'm atheist because there is not concrete evidence the proves there is a god

>>724965521
If god is all powerful, then why is there evil?

>>724969785

> There was no point in which there was nothing.

That's presumptive as well. There was no point in which there was anything.

>>724969686
I don't have faith in god as part of finding meaning or feeling good about myself, I have faith in god because it makes sense to me personally and I fear him. Other than that I am good because others around me our nice to me and so I should treat them the same way

>>724969391
> As to how the universe started [...] is beyond our understanding, or our ability to perceive with our limited scope.
Agreed
>But to infer God from an unknown is argument from ignorance, which is folly.
But to assume your definition of "God" is mine, and then declare it a folly, is arrogance.
My definition is "the unknowable, incomprehensible origin of the universe." Hey, what do you know, it can be inferred without any fallacy violations. Also, added bonus - I don't have to be a pretentious prick! <3

You can't create something from nothing.

>>724970288
Quantum foam would like a word with you.

I don't really care, but I am likely agnostic.

There is no evidence for a god or gods, thus theism is based on faith without evidence.

There is no evidence for the absence of a god or gods, thus atheism is based on faith without evidence.

I base my views on observation, thus theism and atheism are both foolish in my opinion.

>>724969878
because god created good and evil and then gave specifically humans the opportunity to act good or evil and be rewarded or punished as a result of doing so. I don't know why because I don't understand god but I have faith in that much at least.

>>724965521
>something coming from nothing does not make sense

Then where did God come from?

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>>724969739

Hah! Not so fast.

The thing is, we might eventually be capable of creating simulated universes, ourselves.

I'm not saying we should take comfort that the universe IS simulated. It's (debatably) unlikely.

But it's possible in a material world to make one, where it's not possible for a material world to have an afterlife.

In fact, it might be our destiny, that we're going to someday create a matryoshka brain so that we can live happily and well-entertained for the rest of the lifespan of the universe.

And in that light (the argument goes), this life is conditioning so that we appreciate what we got. Also that societies within that simulation could create simulations, themselves.

It's not meant to be a position of faith, but a Socratic supposition.

I'm atheist because when science can't explain something I can accept that it's just something humanity hasn't grasped yet, and I don't blame everything on the fairy tale man in the sky

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>>724970069

Well, I for one, know I exist because I think, and at least I dream.

But yes, there may be nothing else.

>>724970349
The abscence of evidence is not the evidence of abscence.

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This is literally what i saw in every atheist i ever met,

>>724970238
That's a good point I wish I had mentioned, our definitions for god are different.

>>724970381
If, in a material world, I was able to perfectly and accurately duplicate every molecule in your body... Right down to electron spin states and energy levels... Would the new copy truly be you?

... If so, why would you insist that a material world precludes an afterlife? Hell, another "you" could be born just randomly, maybe there are already like 6 of you.

>>724970505

> I exist because I think

Can rocks think? What about when you're not thinking? The "I think therefore I am." argument is fundamentally flawed and only points to existence being mandatory.

I'm an atheist because I know the history of Europe, and I don't appreciate being controlled by and organization that exists purely to exploit.

there are a bunch of religions, if god was real then he/she would show up.

i got into a car accident. i crashed into a tree having a seizure. i saw the light. i saw a bunch of angles they were a bunch of hot blonde girls.

>>724970564
That is such bullshit

>>724965521
I believe "god" is just a part of everything in the universe

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>>724970238

Fine, for this argument I can accept that:

God = the unknowable, incomprehensible origin of the universe.

But what can we infer from that definition of God?

I would argue: nothing.

And that's the problem. Usually theistic cosmological discussions are about making out God to be something more than an unknowable thing.

I choose to accept there remains a possibility that the universe never failed to exist. There's a strong likelihood that "nothing" is not a natural state.

Certainly vaccuum is not nothing (even if we eliminate trace hydrogen, it still has the properties of orientation and position)

>>724970945
"I'm a rabbit because cars make pollution and should be outlawed."

No, seriously: mine made a lot more sense than yours.

>>724970756
^

>>724970838
Whether or not you meant to you have increased my faith further, thank you

>>724970945
You assuming you know something about a place when you were not there, that is called having faith. You are not an atheist...

>>724970238
>I don't have to be a pretentious prick! <3
—Said the super obnoxious and clearly pretentious self-absorbed prick

>>724971033
>But what can we infer from that definition of God?
>I would argue: nothing.
Who would you argue with? I would be agreeing with you.
Some of those other kids are still trying to say a bunch of stuff about what the definition of god they came up with means, and tells us, etc. I don't play with those kids; they are often very mean.

>>724971030
Everything is connected somehow. Psydelics help show us

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>>724971355
The butthurt is strong with this one!

>>724971033
No you are right he and his intentions are unknowable, that is why we have faith in him and what he wants us to do for example be good because it makes the most sense, at least for me

>>724971082
What didn't you understand?

I'm an atheist because I'm not smart enough to comprehend anything I cannot observe. I am of simple mind.

>>724971296
There is no God. I'm a fucking athesit.

>>724965521

I'm just wondering.

If the Universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?

Is it expanding because of a force pulling it outward, or is it because of a force pushing it outward?

What caused the force?

Was it an explosion from the centre, or an airtight packaging breach thing from the outside?

Can the Universe be observed from outside?

What is the total Area of the space the Universe is expanding into and what will happen when that space is filled?

Will the expansion reach a speed and expansion rate singularity at 50% exterior capacity and fill 100% instantly?

Will the walls of the Universe reverberate from the container we are held in?

Will the Universe breach the container?

Will the Universe crack?

If it cracks, will the Universe be sucked out as thr material 'Space' is made of rushes to fill the containers space, where the 'Space' of that Space contains less 'Space'?

Should we be worried if our Space is sucked out to fill the containers 'Space' Space because there may be something containing the container?

What if we expand into the first container because it brings us with it's own expansion into this new, scary container?

What if our 'Space' in Space is sucked into the containers Space as our 'Space' fills the void, then we expand into the container and it breaaches the second container and our 'Space' Space is sucked into that new, bigger Space?

Vsauce, Michael here.

Because I feel like it

I don't get it isn't atheism a religion.

>>724965521

I see no evidence of a higher power at work or of any sort of grand design so I am an atheist. I'm perfectly willing to believe in something but not just because a book written in an age of ignorance that was then rewritten, edited, translated many times, and then edited again says so.

>>724971772
No, it's a lack of one.

>>724971559
Oh, I understood it just fine. It was just fucking retarded.
Your assertion boils down to "I insist that [class of thing] does not exist, because [self-proclaimed instance of thing] sucks."

Or, translated further, "My bad experience with these assholes makes me an expert on their supposed field of study."

... do you follow, bunny wabbit?

Im atheist because im yet to see the differences in which why free-will is so important now when in biblical times he would do miracles without a care for his anonymity.

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>>724965521
I'm an agnostic. That means mostly an athiest type, but with the realization that I don't know shit. No place for stupid human ideas of divinity just a little wiggle room for possibilities of other types. Agnostic means without knowledge & we must all agree that we are ignorant of the impetus & purpose of life or the lack of purpose. Anyway that's my stance.

Also - those clouds sped up look just like the foam of the ocean when submerged. It looks like what a fish in the sea might see when it looks up & ponders its existence.

>>724967071
That's pretty fucking convenient isn't it?

>>724970838

That is delving into the Transporter problem. Also Ship of Theseus and Washington's Axe.

George Washington has an axe (the one with which he may or may not have chopped down a cherry tree). During his life, he's replaced the blade twice and the handle three times. Is it the same axe?

What if he took the broken parts, reconstructed them and made new axes of them? Which one is the original axe?

Would a clone of me be me? He'd think so. Courts of law would have to deliberate on which of us has rights to my property, but the other one would still have rights to life and liberty.

The thing is, like Theseus' ship and Washington's axe, we ARE cloned, only cell by cell. Even our brain cells are replaced one by one.

Given continuity, this makes identity easy. We even accept that after a night's sleep (even though our brain powers down so as to not be the same consciousness as last time) we accept when we wake up that we're the same person who fell asleep, because we believe we are, and have convincing memories of who we were last night.

But this might present an interesting conundrum for that person who discovers that he's NOT the real guy, but a simulation.

Phillip K. Dick's story Impostor gets into this. There was even Gary Sinise movie (2000)

>>724971897
If you were a fish there would be a hole in your mouth right now

>>724971915
^

If God is all powerful, then God is not all good; If God is all good, then God is not all powerful.

>>724971897
How?Atheism is a belief that god doesn't exist so that means it's a religion or a sect because there shit ton of atheist.

>>724965521
I don't believe in a god from any of the scriptures on the planet, but I do believe creationism is possible. If humans create an AI that is intelligent, and you can't tell the difference between it and a human, is it life?

You first have to define life, because if we discover life elsewhere in the universe it's sure to be very different, maybe unrecognizable. We don't even truly know what "life" actually is, since different planets are so drastically different, and we've never even visited another planet besides the rovers on Mars.

>>724971988
You fail to realise that just because a religion or every religion is wrong doesn't make god any less real. You also fail to realise maybe that didn't happen but there is a god and he wanted you to read that to give you some kind of nudge

>>724972023
Yeah I know it was edited, and I guess that makes me and every other theist actually an agnostic but with faith and still not any knowledge. I'm happy with that

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>>724972242
>Atheism is a belief that god doesn't exist so that means it's a religion
I believe Guam exists, guess that makes it a religion.

>>724971915
My bad experiences? You mean literally over a millenia of bad experiences?

>>724972120
Well, the answer to the conundrum is also the answer to the question of whether a material universe precludes an afterlife.

Me personally, if I wake up and think I'm me, I reckon I probably am. Whether or not I'm a copy, or a brand new organism born from the corpse that unconscious sleep brings, or a simulated me in some Sony PS9, well - fuck me if it doesn't seem like I'm me anyway.

So, I reckon an afterlife in a material world isn't all that implausible.

>>724972090
So, my keyboard is right in front of me and that is convenient. Does something being convenient make it not true?

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>>724970756

I'd argue it's a presumption based on the information we have. To be fair, I'd really rather there WAS a God or a higher purpose or a swanky afterlife. But I just don't really see it.

And besides which I was raised in an era with a lot of lies, and a lot of fellow humans trying to take advantage of me by capitalizing on my ignorance.

So I set a pretty high standard as to what I trust, and neither God nor any organized religion qualifies.

So yes, I live on the presumption that this is it. No Hell below us. Above us only sky.

Imagine all the people living for today...

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>>724965521
I'm atheist because I prefer reality and evidence rather than fantasy and superstition.

>>724972193
You don't know that and personally that makes absolutely no sense and it would seem you just pulled that out of your ass

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>>724972482
Wow, you are really old. You should probably go to bed, gramps. Maybe you will be less fucking retarded after a nap.

>>724972464
So you prove my point when you believe something exists and there are enough people that believe in the same thing that becomes religion or a sect like for instance Scientology.

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Where did god come from?

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>>724972800

>>724972193
>If [what I think of when I say] God is [what I think of when I say] all powerful, then [what I think of when I say] God is not all [what I think of when I say] good; If [what I think of when I say] God is all [what I think of when I say] good, then [what I think of when I say] God is not all [what I think of when I say] powerful.
Fixed that for you. Spot the flaw in your logic? Hint: it's you.

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>>724970889

That is genuinely all I can know for certain of the material world. Yes.

I PRESUME a lot because mechanics and optics and thermodynamics are super-consistent. And we have models of them that are good enough to build things and fly airplanes.

That's the difference between practical assumptions and beliefs. But I am very comfortable with "I don't know" and being able suppose that this world is material and ideal simultaneously.

It's a side affect of studying a lot of science, I suppose.

>>724965521
I'm an atheist because I haven't seen any compelling evidence that a god exists.

>>724972675
>superstition
excessively credulous belief in and reverence for the supernatural.

Recognise the difference between faith and belief.

>>724972599
Well dude that is your thing and no one can take that away from you.

>>724972916
Well prove me wrong if you can.

>>724969069
So you don't currently hold the conviction of there being a god? You're an atheist. Welcome!

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>>724973094
They're the same. "Faith" is the notion that you think something is or is going-to-be, while a "belief" is the notion of how you think something ought to be/is (despite nothing to confirm that being the case).

>>724971642
Actually being religious causes a persons brain to give up logic on such a level it's almost crippling. Things like, just have hope or faith or trust in blah blah blah...be fearful of your creator but love him unconditionally or you will go to fire world. These are brainwashing techniques and they work very well. Religious people just use that lack of logic and input hope that something will be ok instead of rationally figuring it out. My boss is religious and I see it constantly at work(construction). He'd rather hope to win the lottery than to work smart to become a self made millionaire. If he's in a situation where logic is needed he will just wing it instead and hope for the best. This never works and causes more problems then necessary. I always tell him just because Jesus was the son of a carpenter doesn't mean he's gonna come down from heaven to help you figure it out. Anyways religion is a brainwashing game so you pay to have your sins forgiven and a guaranteed one way ticket to heaven. Ain't that shit a racket? Vatican is the wealthiest entity on earth. More gold than fort knoxs. I think they are waiting for the annunaki to return so they can give it to them. Who knows?

>>724966184

lol doesn't believe something came from nothing.. yet believe in a being that came from nothing. Okaaaay

>>724972599

You grew up surrounded in Sin and instead of being sure of His existence, you turned your back.

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>>724971662

> If the Universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?

> Is it expanding because of a force pulling it outward, or is it because of a force pushing it outward?

These are great questions! In fact, that's why we call the force that is accelerating the expansion of the universe "dark energy". "Dark" is sciencey-speak for "WTF???"

>>724973286
Incorrect. No conviction, but no assertion of existence or nonexistence = agnostic.
Unprovable assertion of existence = theist.
Unprovable assertion of nonexistence = atheist.

Just because you want more kids to join your religion of non-existence, doesn't mean you get to change the definitions.

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>>724973317

>>724973317
No, as the guy has been trying to get across above all of our definition for god and many other words are different. Faith for me means I want and trust something exists but don't know if it actually does or doesn't. I know it's a little hard to understand but surely you get where I'm coming from

>>724972328
>Every religion is wrong
>There still MAY be a higher power
>Gotta believe because there is a possibility
>Reasoning behind why I should follow higher power is unclear since all religions are wrong, but do it for the keks anyways.

>>724973328
No you don't understand, what you said doesn't make sense because he never "came" he has always been. Try to wrap your head around that

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>>724973607
>Faith for me
>for me
I'm talking about the objective definition, not anecdotal.

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>>724972483

Well sorta.

Who you are right now is who you are today.

That's not to say the person who occupied your body yesterday is the same person.

Freefall (the webcomic) gets into this from a robotic perspective. His robots are afraid to shut down or reboot, since doing so essentially means death.

Also CGP Grey's video on the Transporter Problem gets into it.

>>724973414

That's what our 'Space' is, the stuff that makes up most of our Space. Like the air on Earth, Dark Energy to Space.

You think I'm an idiot for the way I ask my questions, yet I have no education on this subject, I simply ask questions. If you don't like how I ask my shit, then you can stuff a fat black nutsack down your neckbeard surrounded throat, you greasy child molesting dandruff eating basement dwelling pretentious condescending ugly cunt.

>>724965521
which god?

(this is always, always, always the first question to ask whenever anyone mentions the magic poof)

>>724973698
> Assumed every religion is definitely wrong without any proof
> Yes there might be and hopefully is
> You don't have to believe but it would be nice for me at least if you had faith
> Always do it for the keks, brother

>>724965521
If there is a higher power who doesn't care about us, what it is or wants doesn't matter (at least not to us).

If there isn't one, it also doesn't matter to us.

If there is one who does care, one would assume that it would make sure that any human born would come to know whatever it was it wanted from us.

That is why I believe pretty much all humans are born, on some level, knowing right from wrong, justice from injustice.

You don't need any book or scripture to instinctively know it's nice to share and bad to hurt someone. That, to me, is the best evidence of a God who cares.

>>724973769
Regarding that picture god is able to do anything but is (I'm guessing) not willing to do everything. Don't make assumptions on him, I'm not. I'm just telling you what I have faith in, I have faith that god created good and evil for the purpose of a test other than that I don't know of any his reasoning or exactly why he wanted to

I don't believe in any religion's god, a higher being? Possibly but the bible and many other religious text is just a shit show of contradictions and used as a weapon and used to feed off ignorant people and steal 10% of their income, im sorry but i don't see a "loving" god as people like to say condemning people for not tithing or being present at a church every sunday or let so much bad happen in the world

>>724974064

God can't be identified by us. He/She/It can't be described, or documented. I just have Faith that we were created to serve a purpose. Science is nice and all but it just doesn't answer the right questions for me. Not because I don't believe in Science, I take the Laws of Science like Gospel. It's that Science just can't even begin to answer the mildest of questions in relevance to the beginning of all things.

>>724973414
Ya fractals man. The answers are in the fractals. The universe is like vibrations in a fluid. It's flowing and the galaxies hold together like stirring black pepper in a watery cream sauce. It's all moving together with the fluid and not seperating from each other. Appearing to be all held together.

>>724965521
>n
I'm agnostic because I haven't the slightest clue what is going on.

>>724974064
> which god
Well if there is a god then the others wouldn't be a god so that is a dumb question. I am talking about a single all powerful all knowing god in general that wants us to be good but has given us the opportunity to be good or evil and then will reward or punish us.

>>724973758
>he
And your whole concept just dissolved into a man made creation

>>724974104
I agree with you 100%, I believe it was even studied somewhere that children without being given any information on or 'about' god still had an idea of him and of him being good

>>724965521
I'm an atheist because your "nothing" is the same as air was thought of long ago

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I must be lost.
I thought I was on /b/.
Then I saw 150 posts about religion and philosophy, and not one banana or trannie or spodorman or upskirt anywhere in the bunch.
Did I seriously fuck around and wander into /b/ right in the middle of Bible Study Thursday?!?

>>724973510
Incorrect-o.

Theist= Someone that believes in a god.

The prefix "a"= Being without what comes after the prefix.

i.e- asexual- without sexuality / asymmetric- without symmetry.

Hence: Atheist= Someone that does not believe in a god.

It's not belief in the opposite. It's lack of a belief in the positive.

Gnosticism and agnosticism only deals with knowledge, not belief. Calling yourself simply an agnostic without any follow doesn't tell me anything. It's just that you lack knowledge. Lack knowledge of what? Lack knowledge about god, and does not hold that belief? Then you're an agnostic atheist. Just like I am.

>>724974569
Nope, I only refer to him as he because it is easy and it's the way our language works I don't actually believe he is a man or even compromised of any matter at all, I have already said this above

How about I continue to not give a shit if there is or not?

Seeing as it has never done anything relevant in my life.

im an athiest because i like reductionism and science but sometimes i catch myself praying to god

>>724974416
So your god is not one of the 5000 or so gods that have already been invented?
That's super! Now we have 5001 gods!
Let me take a wild guess - your god comes with exactly the same amount of supporting evidence as every other god. Correct?
Correct.

>>724975010
god and religion whether or not he or it is true at all has had without a doubt huge impacts on your life. You drive past churches which draw your attention for a few second maybe that could have been spent looking at something else. Look up the butterfly effect although you probably already know what it is you clever butterfly ;)

>>724975128
fuck me i always spell it wrong
*ATHEIST

>>724975128
I love that sentence

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>>724975191
obligatory reference: picture related.

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>>724973389

Sin is no more valid than crime. Sin is wrongdoing according to Divine Command, yet it always points to human-written scripture. So it's an appeal to an alleged authority.

(Crime is wrongdoing according to the state or according to magistrates of the state, such as a king or legislator.)

In this world there is no sin. There's what WE think as right and wrong which informs how we behave. And there's action and consequences.

Josef Mengele, the notorious doctor of death who engaged largely in human experimentation escaped prosecution and died a free man.

He didn't sin. There is no natural justice except what we make, and his ability to engage in such cruelty and then escape is our burden to bear. We do better in the future, or we suffer as more monsters come into power to express their monstrousness.

Pretending there is divine justice is a wubbie, a thing you squeeze to feel better and reassure yourself that the Heydrichs and Eichmans and Klopfers got theirs in the end. Outside the perview of human society, Hitler did nothing wrong, because there is nothing that is right or wrong. It all just is.

No. They don't. The only law is the law of the jungle until WE make and enforce better laws. There is no equality, no protection, no sustenance until WE create these things for ourselves.

>>724975010
Sure it has. It has reduced your standard of living. Tax-dodging religions force YOU to subsidise their existence via YOUR tax dollars.

>>724975191
Saying that your knowledge of the nonexistence of god also comes with the exact same amount of supporting evidence, correct?
Correct.

because I am a man of SCIENCE!

>>724975595
>your knowledge of the nonexistence of god
Is your god so impotent that he needs you to tell lies for him on 4chins?
You need a better god m8

>>724975660
Have you ever in your life made any scientific study other than realising females don't react well to your presence? 99.9999% of science is testimony, the same as religion. You are just trusting what somebody else tells you. I personally have never seen more than about 100 stars in the sky, how could I know there are more without a telescope and limited to only my vision.

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>>724973510

Each of these, theist, atheist, agnostic, are now identities.

There is no definition for any of them except what as we apply it to ourselves.

I regard myself an atheist, but this doesn't mean I've ruled out gods or the supernatural, rather I've seen no evidence of it, and I tend to distrust things for which there is no evidence.

You may tell me that's not how you understand the definition of atheism, but it is how I understand it when I call myself an atheist.

>>724975842
god doesn't need us, we need him. That is what I have faith in, you do you but if you mocked my faith in front of me I would react violently

>>724975554
Even the concept of "sin" is not universal.
The original Hebrew/Aramaic word meant something more like "missing the mark" or "trying but failing".

Contemporary use is more like the opposite of that notion: something you DO if you are WICKED... instead of the original something you FAIL to do because you are WEAK.

...And that's just the ancient versus contemporary notion of the biblical concept of sin. Other religions have other concepts.

>>724975999
Right. The word isn't important. As long as we know our definitions. The three of us are atheists by our definition. And we're all agnostics according to his.There.

>>724976211
But, what if I theistically identify as an attack helicopter?

>>724976025
>but if you mocked my faith in front of me I would react violently
Bwahahahahahah
I'm only mocking your faith because it, and you, are retarded.
BTW - 6'4" & 240 pounds here. What you gonna do godboy?

>>724976313
You do you, buddy.

>>724976211
You mean by your definition, his could still be different. I somewhat agree with you though. More than a theist I am an agnostic with faith in god meaning I trust that he exists but don't know it either way if that makes sense. Almost like I feel not just me but every life form are owed to have a god so we can have accountability for good and wrong doers in that afterlife.

I believe in science because it can be verified.

>>724976341
You are saying I am retarded meaning you know that I am retarded meaning you are not an atheist. I'm 5'9" but I train boxing and weights every day and am going to Commando training soon. So don't think you have this in the bag

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>>724975877

Testimony, yes, but science is based on testimony of many, many different sources using many, many methods by which to come to their conclusion.

And more often that testimony is from a machine so as to prevent fudging the numbers.

Don't get me wrong, we still have number fudging. We still have biases. And it doesn't help that the minute someone does a study (that isn't checking a different study) the press is eager to tell you what new thing is bad for you.

But our models (and they aren't TRUTHS, but models that mirror what to expect) got to become models because a lot of people made the same observations and concurred. A lot of people dropped a lot of objects and monitored their rate of fall before we figured we had an understanding of this gravity thing.

And it's still the same way when we watch the stars, or black holes or whatever shiny lights we see in the sky.

You may have only seen a hundred stars, but you can get charts of the sky from many places, and some have used the sky to navigate the seas (or, really, anywhere they can see the nighttime).

So there's more to science, or being scientifically savvy, than simply what you heard from your uncle that Steve Hawking said last week.

>>724976480
How can you know it is actually being verified when science says you can't know that. I guess it's just a paradox

>>724975877
Wrong. Science is observation. Get on my level son.

>>724965521
atheist because i put away childish things faggot

>>724976702
It can be verified, in fact it has to be to be called science or fact or theory by peer review.

>>724976638
I know all that but if I didn't have a telescope, saw 100 stars and then was locked away without any view of the sky would it be reasonable for me to believe a man who visits and tells me there are actually billions of stars?

>>724976633
Wow, I don't think you are pretending to be dumb. I think maybe you are the real deal.

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>>724965521
of course nothing makes sense moron, we haven't had good scientific tools [especially computers, for a hundred years or so. And look wat that 100 years has gotten us. No prayer needed Superstition, on the other hand,...

I'm an atheist because there's no empirical evidence, no logically consistent and compelling rational argument, and not even an agreed-upon definition for god(s) that would justify belief in one.

>>724976427
I'd define you as an agnostic theist. You believe without the knowledge.

>>724976876
Atheists by the objective definition agree that they don't know anything, but you claimed you know me to be retarded making you no longer an atheist. :')

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>>724965521
If I had to describe my position, it would be agnostic limes atheist.
I can´t say for shure that there is no deity out there, but every information I get points to that conclusion.

>>724975554
Sin is defined as "time". So we are born with "sin" we are born in the three dimensions plus time. The bible isn't trying to sell an entity. It's actually got clues in it about the nature of the universe. The bible is like a secret book that needs to be decoded. Ask a Freemason. They know all about it. You're taking it too literal. You have to define the actual words and understand what it was translated from.

>>724977001
Exactly, "believe without knowledge" I always thought that to be the meaning of the word faith but I guess many others have different definitions.

>>724965521
So where did vod come from op?

>>724974994
That's lazy nigga. You'll never be taken seriously with that mindset

>>724976975
>>724977107
Two almost opposite statements I both agree with. Weird.

>>724974861
It happens more than u think

>>724977107
That's fair enough I don't mind if somebody wants to call themselves an atheist although I think it is illogical and a paradox as long as you're a good person you do you.

It is a paradox because they believe they don't know anything for sure but then that would mean they know that they can't know anything for sure.

>>724977134
>Sin is defined as "time"

literal nonsense.

Why the fuck can't religious people think rationally? It must be the same mental block that keeps them religious in the first place.

>>724977446
If religious people didn't think rationally they wouldn't have been successful and wouldn't know how to survive, yet I'm sure you will find many richer many more successful theists than you.

>>724977357
How is it illogical or paradoxical to lack belief in god(s) because of bad evidence and arguments supporting it?

>>724965521
You would call me an atheist, because I don't see theism as a default.

>>724977345
I wouldn´t say they are almost opposite, I say it is unlikely for some form of deity to exist, and
>>724976975
says there is none.

>>724977547
I spoke too soon. I should've said that they aren't intellectually honest. Otherwise intelligent people can be religious as long as they compartmentalize and don't evaluate religious claims the same way they do scientific ones, even though they both ultimately concern the same things. Concrete objective claims.

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>>724966699
merciful my ass pal. just wait for that mercy, and die screaming.

I aint tellin what his fucking mercy brought me. fuck your god, I would wrap my hands around his scawny neck and choke the life out of him if I could. lets see how he likes our mercy, for a change. I only believe in him as a focus for my infinite rage, that was wat his mercy left me.

>>724977549
I already explained why it is paradoxical and it is illogical only if you believe he doesn't exist. I guess it's not illogical if you have a lack of belief.

Google defines it as below as having two meanings the disbelief one being illogical.

"disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

>>724965521
If something can't come from nothing, where did your god come from?

>>724977744
I agree with you, I don't try to force god on people as I don't believe I know he exists. I only have faith that he does defined in the same was as I said somewhere above.

>>724977641
I never said there is no god, nor does any atheist who's researched the position. We say there's no good reason to believe in one. Big difference.

>>724966184
Yet you have exactly zero evidence for such a claim.

>>724977753
Just because you shat yourself at school doesn't mean god isn't merciful or doesn't care about you. Whatever happened to you many worse things have happened to other people and I have faith when you die there is some kind of accountability (justice).

>>724969865
Even if there was, I would give zero fucks.

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>>724976851

I don't know. Being locked away and restricted from information sounds like a denial of what we would regard basic human rights, but maybe that's taking your supposition to seriously.

Plato's allegory of the cave covers this, the people who watched shadows on the wall of the cave, and when one escaped the cave, was overwhelmed by the bright outside and told the others, he was regarded as a madman.

Is it possible to discern which raving fools are truly mad, and which ones saw the great outdoors? I don't really know.

Though we sort of ARE in a cave, ourselves. We only see the known universe, though anticipate the entire universe to be unfathomably huger. We are bacteria suspended in the film covering a speck of dust.

But this isn't to say we don't know anything. In fact, we know quite a lot. But also what we do know is a far cry from everything.

It doesn't mean we should dismiss what we know, but anticipate that we'll learn more.

>>724977141
Faith is belief without evidence.

>>724977961
I know, but saying that you have zero evidence that I have zero evidence :')

>>724977896
Why have "faith" in such a thing? The only way I really respect a religious person's belief, or better yet a person who has vague belief in god(s) without religion attached, is if they say because it makes them feel better. That it eases their anxieties concerning existential dread. It's honest at least, and fully understandable.

>>724970125
You fear a being for whom there is zero evidence? Makes sense.

>>724965521
Im an athiest because i can find my own reason to be moral without some imaginary fucker telling me to live my life by him

I no longer care where I end up after I die.

>>724977446
I'm not religious. Remeber the bible has been translated several times. If you go back far enough you see how it's all gotten fucked up. People put blind faith into this garbled up nonsense. I promise when it says we are born with "sin" it mean we are living in a dimension of time. Yes see my post about being religious cause the brain not to use logic. I don't think you are following the conversation right.

>>724978169
Not by my definition, although similar if I have faith it means I have trust that it is real but don't know for sure and all the while believe that I am owed it (to have a god).

>>724977019
You don't even know the definition of the word.

>>724978281
I guess that could work since apparently placebos work even if you know it is one. Although I don't have faith in it just to feel better, I'm not depressed or anything close to that

Im a magician so i don't worship any gods.

>>724965521

What created god? He needed a beginning too, or did he just manage to pop out of thin air?

>>724970945
>not reformed catholic you obviously didnt learn anything if you "Know the history of europe" good job you played yourself

>>724977446
I think u need to stop posting now. You completely lost the point of the statement. Attack another comment that you can understand.

>>724978188
This only still works because we have no certainty of the origin of the universe, before we had any clue what the universe was, God existed in everything we didn't understand.
Playing the God of the gaps at this stage has no repercussions and you're unlikely to be disproven (in any timeframe we can accurately fathom) if your only argument is the absolute origin.

But what comfort is that?

>>724968246
Not that guy and while I agree to some extent we humans have been blessed, thanks to evolution, a brain which encompasses ethical and moral reason. D say we all share common traits of compassion and empathy. Yes we are still primitive war mongers but we are the most intelligent at least on this planet. We have moved past the kill or be killed routine. So what message is that?

>>724978375
Nah I took your comment as a one-off. I just recently joined the thread and cbf to read all the shit before me

im an atheist because fuck you and fuck you

>>724978552
No, do you understand what absolute and relative means? God would be absolute and we and the universe would be relative, so he didn't need a beginning but I guess we did.

>>724978651
I'm just telling you what makes sense to me, the only thing I would ever try to force someone to be is good.

>>724978422
So your definition goes against the Bible? Don't know if you're Christian, but that's the Biblical one and other groups. But that's fine.

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>>724977134

Yeah, I don't buy that.

We can apply Da Vinci Code logic to just about any book and get Nostradamus-style predictions, and what I've seen of bible codes so far has suggested there's nothing to it.

I also don't understand your association with sin and time. Original sin is the notion that the sins of Eve and Adam are, in Yahweh's good judgement exacted upon us.

In modern justice theory we regard it as wrong to put the crimes of one person upon another, even if they're related. We're not even thrilled with sanctions against national magistrates, given that it's the citizens who suffer.

Similarly, incidentally, the Greeks disregarded women because Pandora opened up her jar. Or it may be that men were the hobbyist project of a titan, yet Pandora was engineered and crafted by Olympians to be all curvy.

there were times when humanity wanted to control other people. And in times like these, the creation of the Gods was most useful. Gods may have been a necessary evil, but humanity is growing up. And the time has come, to put away childish things like religion.

I have some questions for theists part 1/2

Why would god make the vast majority of the universe completely uninhabitable, and to that extent why would he bother making the rest of the universe at all if humankind and the earth are the sole focus of his creation?

Why would god after having created the universe wait 9 billion years to create the earth, then proceed to wait another 4 billion years before humans were able to be created?

Or if you don't subscribe to the idea that the universe is older than six thousand years. Why would god create all animals with the same fundamental building blocks as if they were all related through a common ancestor, despite the fact that this is detrimental to certain species; why would he not create each species from an individual starting point and furthermore, why would god give animals so many vestigial structures (features which no longer serve the purpose that they were originally intended for.) For example, why are 80% of a dolphin's olfactory receptor genes inactive, why do men have nipples, and why do humans experience goosebumps if you can't explain these things through evolution?

>>724978946
2/2

If god is omniscient then he knows the future and he knew from the start that one day he would be wiping out the majority of the human species save noah and his family; so why would god not just begin with noah and his family?

Why has god only ever appeared to such a small selective group of people, and why hasn't he appeared again since; especially considering the dwindling of faith across the globe that we are currently experiencing?

Why would god prioritize his own ego in his commandments detailing precisely how he should be worshiped above the commandments not to murder, or steal?

Why would god not include a commandment for parents to respect their children to go alongside the commandment for children to respect their parents?

Why would god allow satan to exist, if he can eliminate the devil and he doesn't want to then he has malicious intent, but if he can't eliminate the devil, then he's impotent, so which is it?

Why would god harden the heart of the pharaoh of the book of exodus, to then punish the pharaoh with plagues for having a hardened heart?

Why would god create a son to send to earth who's destined to be merciless tortured and brutally crucified in order to forgive the sin of man, when he could have just forgiven the sin of man?

>>724978917
I guess it does and I'm not Christian. I just have faith god exists and that we are ought to be good but can be either good or evil and then rewarded or punished sorry for repeating myself

>>724978731
Nonsense and special pleading. Also, how do you know that our universe didn't arise from an infinite regress of causal origins? Or that at some yet undiscovered fundamental level, existence is eternal? In either case reality doesn't have a beginning or a purpose, it simply "is".

Asserting that god(s) did it is a cheap way of answering the question of our origin, while also being rife with logical inconsistencies.

Can you even define god?

>>724965521

Im a theist.

File: 1401541954788.jpg (40KB, 356x510px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 356x510px

>>724978071
shat myself? you are an idiot. and lucky. there is no justice fool. why do children die horrible deaths, justice? when its YOUR child, think of those who will trivialize it as "you shat yourself at school. you have no idea at all of what the world is. and you don't have a fucking clue about me,
shat yourself at school. wat a dumbass. can you buy beer yet?

>>724965521
Atheist.
Default position.
I can be persuaded to believe otherwise, with evidence.
Real evidence, not hear-say or conjecture.

>>724978946
> Why would god make the vast majority of the universe completely uninhabitable, and to that extent why would he bother making the rest of the universe at all if humankind and the earth are the sole focus of his creation?

I don't claim to know the answer to that but perhaps other worlds get there on prophets or whatever is needed to give them the opportunity to acquire faith.

> Why would god after having created the universe wait 9 billion years to create the earth, then proceed to wait another 4 billion years before humans were able to be created?

I personally don't know how to tell the age of the universe and am not going to believe what somebody else tells me, but I have no intention of replicating the study myself so it comes down to god can do whatever he wants and we obviously don't understand why god does what he does and maybe eventually it will make sense.

>>724979004
> If god is omniscient then he knows the future and he knew from the start that one day he would be wiping out the majority of the human species save noah and his family; so why would god not just begin with noah and his family?

It's the same question as why would he create anything at all, my answer boils down to the same one given above.

> Why has god only ever appeared to such a small selective group of people, and why hasn't he appeared again since; especially considering the dwindling of faith across the globe that we are currently experiencing?

I don't believe/have faith that is true. It makes more sense to me that he would never appear and it is down to us to recognise his existence.

> Why would god prioritize his own ego in his commandments detailing precisely how he should be worshiped above the commandments not to murder, or steal?

You are assuming that if god is real a certain religion is true, so I can't answer. Not gonna answer more questions, tired of c/p

>>724979476
if God was scientifically proven to exist so you start believing in God, you'd still be an atheist
does that make sense?
because if God was PROVEN to be real he would now be part of science
theism doesn't just require faith, it demands it

>>724979025
No problems man. Spiritual but not religious kinda guy?

>>724979087
I'm pretty sure god has a different definition to just about everyone so asking me if I can "even define" him is dumb. You would only be getting my personal definition

>>724979446
You are an idiot, I never said there will be justice in our life otherwise we would have proof of god. You must wait. If somebody kills a baby he will go to hell maybe forever whereas the baby might have missed a lifetime in hell and got a shortcut to heaven.

I am neither, we cannot prove or disprove the existence of a God, the various religions are probably all wrong but I believe something created the universe, or at least started the chain of events that led to the creation of the universe.

>>724979726
Oh, sheeet that belonged in a rekt thread

>>724979809
No, it isn't dumb. To have a rational reason to believe in something, you have to at least be able to tell me what the fuck you're talking about. That god is such a poorly defined concept capable of endless post hoc reform is a bug, not a feature.

>>724979804
Don't like the word spiritual as it makes me think of those 30 year old moms reading horoscopes but yeah

>>724979726
lol utter horse shit. How the actual fuck would conclusively proving a god make someone still be an atheist?

That's literal nonsense, dumbass.

>>724980118
Okay here is my definition

God is
> Asbolute
> All knowing
> All powerful
> Good
> Merciful
> Patient
> Forgiving with some exceptions

>>724969610
But something with no beginning or end does make sense. Right. Also, you may want to study up on what the Big Bang actually was.

>>724980399
ok atheists only believe in what has been proven scientifically
if God was proven to exist scientifically then it doesn't necessarily make you religious to believe in God

Atheist

God by most definitions can't beat a lot of philosophical and moral arguments.

>>724966088
isnt he?
an omnipotent man who loves us all and if we're good and believe in him he rewards us?

Im an atheist because if there is a god his plans are cruel and why should I bow when i was never consulted about my existence?

>>724980408
>all-knowing

Conflicts with free will

>all-powerful

Nonsense. Can he make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?

>Good

And yet he gives toddlers cancer. Real nice guy.

>Forgiving with some exceptions

Based on what? How do you know this or any of these other, mostly paradoxical qualities?

>>724980690
It makes no sense because all we know are things that are relative, god is unknown and also absolute hence why he needs no beginning. I'm sure you can understand that

>>724980724
lol no. Theism in the most vague sense ONLY has to do with belief in god(s). If something is proven scientifically, I would believe in it.

You didn't think that through for more than 2 seconds, did you?

>>724973320
All that is true, but I'm not religious. I'm saying that your general atheist doesn't believe in paranormal things because they can't observe it themselves. I myself did believe, so I learned to meditate, and as a result have first hand experience with out of body consciousness and travel to the etheric plane.
Such things are possible when a simple minded view of reality doesn't inhibit effort to achieve such a feat.

>>724980789
Using your logic I am the same as a donkey because we both have 2 eyes and both breathe oxygen. :P

We don't know his plans that is the point we can just have faith that he is a good god and wants us to pass this test but already knows if we will or won't

>>724979692
>I personally don't know the age of the universe and am not going to believe what anyone tells me

Absolute fucking retard confirmed

>>724980807
It doesn't conflict at all where did you get that.

He created "sense" so he is still all powerful he can do anything and make it make sense to us.

Would you willingly receive cancer and then an eternity in paradise? I would go to hell for a billion years then heaven for eternity rather than heaven for a billion years then hell for an eternity.

He is forgiving in the regards only he is perfect and we are not expected to be perfect and always good, but he is not forgiving if you die while worshipping other gods or tried to be god.

This is just what I have faith in to be true because it makes sense but I accept I don't know it.

>>724980979
>Using your logic I am the same as a donkey because we both have 2 eyes and both breathe oxygen. :P

I'm not even the guy you're arguing with and that's just terrible. Are you even old enough to be on this site?

>>724980913
yeah so you would believe in God if God's existence was proven
but because you don't believe on faith, you're still atheist

>>724981251
So you believe what anybody who is a scientist tells you, if somebody hacked CNN and made a false report that scientists actually "believe" the universe to be 20 billion years old would you believe it until you found out it to be a hoax?...

>>724980816
No, you're quite literally just saying that he has no beginning or end "because." If an absolute entity that has no beginning or end can exist because it is "unknown", then a force that surpasses the supposed relativity our universe can exist and be "unknown" to current science. And even stating this is unnecessary because the belief is not that the universe came from nothing anyway

>>724965521
Rather than listening to other people and agreeing or disagreeing with them, use your own fucking brain. How old are you? What is your IQ? Do you consider yourself smart? Do you study history? Do you understand physics? Are you able to think logically?

Study history. Do you know how many different fucking religions there are? Thousands. OK now let think logically. Would it make more sense, that each of these vastly different religions were true? Or all of them were made up? Just think for yourself and use logic.

Study evolution. Have you ever watched the Cosmos series? Do you know how we as humans came to be? Do you know the planet is billions of years old? How our eyes, our fucking eyes, evolved? Think about the details. The details matter. Little things. Like how that jolt you sometimes get when you are about to fall asleep. That is a reflex passed on from our evolutionary ancestor so they wouldn't fall out of trees.

I could go on and on. Look, if you ignore everything you were told or taught by parents and teachers, and think for yourself, not just blindly think, think logically, earnestly, objectively, the answer will become obvious.

>>724981468
So you believe what anybody who is a priest tells you, if somebody faked being a priest and made a false sermon that priests actually "believe" would you believe it until you found out it to be a hoax?...

>>724981468
the scientific community

>>724981256
>He created "sense" so he is still all powerful he can do anything and make it make sense to us.

Nonsense AND you're not answering the question.

Can he make a rock so big he can't lift it or not? Does he have that power or not?

>Would you willingly receive cancer and then an eternity in paradise?

LOL so kids getting cancer is alright because they get heaven afterwards? So their existence in the first place was pointless? Their suffering was pointless? Their family's suffering? I know your bullshit post-hoc responses to this are gonna make me laugh.

>He is forgiving in the regards only he is perfect and we are not expected to be perfect and always good, but he is not forgiving if you die while worshipping other gods or tried to be god.

The ultimate in Christian horse shit.

The one thing god won't forgive isn't murder, torture, rape, or any such awful thing, it's not believing in him, or believing in other gods. Proof your religion has absolutely nothing to do with morality and everything to do with blind faith.

>This is just what I have faith in to be true because it makes sense

Except it doesn't.

>>724981468
I'll believe what scientists tell me while you believe in a 2000 year old book written by what could have been any random person

>>724981644
No I am not a Christian nor do I follow any religion. Now answer my question

>>724981568
>think logically
>only cites a tv show that was based on a book(not bashing cosmos just bashing the fact that you think Carl Sagan is the end all be all of religion)
It's hard to take you athefags seriously some time. go to your local church some time and just sit through a service, see what happens

>>724981378
Again, nonsense. "Faith" is the justification people give when they have no good reason to believe something.

In the event that there IS good reason to believe in god(s), I'll do so.

>>724981737
It does make sense if god is absolute and perfect and created everything as we know it he also created sense. Don't flat out lie to me, at least use some logic. I get your point but it's not the point to end all points.

I'm off now nearly 4am and I probably made some mistakes in my recent comments so best if I go now

>>724981898
Except there is scientific evidence of this and none of God. The tv show is simply a way to convey the information to a modern audience.

>>724981742
Who said I believe in any book, you are making assumptions

>>724982053
>restates completely retarded argument over and over again when opposition presents logical argument
>fucks off when you realize you can't win the argument under the guise of "having something better to do"

Is there evidence of a greater deity?

No? Then there is no reason to believe in one and thus I have a lack of believe. I don't disbelieve, I don't outright deny the existence of God, but there must be evidence for it to make sense to believe in him.

The meaning of existence cannot be supplied by religion or ideology

I am atheist because to believe in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God is to accept that the creator of the universe is unbelievably cruel and that his followers lie to themselves because they refuse to accept the evidence for his dickheadery.

>>724981898
lol

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01

Try to learn something, ass burger.

>>724982273
Are you trying to say that you would believe if there was a god he wouldn't be able to overcome paradoxes?

>>724982273
Yup. Always how it goes, ain't it?

>>724982479
lol

>muh god doesn't have to make sense cuz he's god!

Look up "special pleading", my retarded friend.

>>724982457
As an atheist myself, that is a very dumb reason to be an atheist.

>>724965521

And where did God come from, or is God not a thing (nothing)?

1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
What covered in, and where? and what gave shelter? Was water there, unfathomed depth of water?
2 Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign was there, the day's and night's divider.
That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.
3 Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this All was indiscriminated chaos.
All that existed then was void and form less: by the great power of Warmth was born that Unit.
4 Thereafter rose Desire in the beginning, Desire, the primal seed and germ of Spirit.
Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent.
5 Transversely was their severing line extended: what was above it then, and what below it?
There were begetters, there were mighty forces, free action here and energy up yonder
6 Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
7 He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.

>>724982674
It does make sense your thinking is just extremely limited I guess. It's not like I am answering a question like why did god create us with the answer because he wanted to. The answer I gave was 100% reasonable.

>>724965521
I'm an atheist because I don't feel that there is a compelling enough reason for me to believe. If you can demonstrate that he exists then I'm all for it

>god makes sense
>something coming from nothing does not make sense.
God literally came from nothing

>>724983093
Nope, it was nonsense. Read what I said again.

>your thinking is just extremely limited I guess

Look up "projection" for me too. And "irony" while you're at it.

>>724983093
It is possible for an absolute being to have no beginning or end but there is absolutely no reason to believe in him

>>724983299
/thread

>>724965521
Pascals wager. Fuck all reason. The most irrational entity is god. That's kind of the point. Therefore have faith, or just live justly and bet on the potential that God exists.

>>724983299
god never came at all he has always been retard

>>724983299
The assertion that atheists believe the universe "came from nothing" is the epitome of an asinine straw man.

Firstly, no legitimate scientist even makes such a claim.

Second, have any of these people thought for a single second about how retarded it is to claim something "came from nothing"? What does nothing even look like?

"Nothing" is, by definition, without properties, and can't ever exist.

To Christians in this thread: assuming a God does exist, what evidence is there for it being your God? What about the thousands of other proposed ones? Are those just wrong because your parents told you so and church taught you that the path of their lord was righteous?

>>724983359
You did not answer my question anyway. If you knew 100% there was a god that created us but knew nothing about the god other than he exists would you find it reasonable to believe he can do anything including overcoming paradoxes like the rock one?

>>724983514
>Pascal's wager

Are you autistic?

>>724983514
God would be able to tell if your faith was real or if it were just because of the wager

nobody ever told me to believe or not to believe. i was born into a christian family and raised with words like "god sees everything you do!".
i never questioned that throughout my childhood and i went to church with my parents.
it was until i turned 14 that i didnt want to serve this stupid community. i just found it more and more useless and stupid, the words lectured out of the bible, how the priest is talking, the songs they sing... it became awkward and odd.
i still didnt even question anything. i just grew into nonbelieving the things i was told as a child. i even remember praying in the age of 5 or so. but the older i got, the less interested i was in god. i just found out that i did not need them. no need for god to explain problems, or to solve them, no need for religion at all in my life.
and the more i learned about physics and the universe, the more im convinced of the danger religion brings to menkind in our time.
its just plain stupid to rather believe in an ever existing god, than in a big-bang. if you ask what was before the big-bang, i ask what was before god. and if you tell me god has no beginning, the universe hasnt either, because before the big bang was after the previous big bang. period.

>>724982836
Is it? I'd rather believe there's nothing than believe that the something does not care about me

>>724983699
You're not arguing in favor of religion at this point, you're arguing in favor of agnosticism. The catch here is that the proposed abrahamic God can in fact "do anything". That is the god under criticism

>>724983691
Pluralistic interpretation do not necessarily imply God does not exist. If anything, it is evidence that God does exist, and that efforts to rationalize God always prove inaccurate. Don't think just believe

>>724983674
What was in replacement of nothing then? :')

>>724983364
That depends on what you think God is, as well as what you think his origins are. Generally, God is percieved as infinite, though, and thus has no beginning or end; he existed at one point in time, and thus exists in all points in time. It's sort of akin to the Chaos Gods of Warhammer.

>>724983912
I am not talking about god under any religion, just the underlying idea of god. I thought you knew that

>>724983674
Mate, particles can spontaneously exist and then not exist at the sub atomic level. Stuff literally does come from nothing, but that's not evidence for a god, just a potential explanation for the origin of matter and energy in the universe