To clarify, I am fine with all religions. Only religion I despise is Islam. Other than that, I have no problem unless they are spouting their cancerous bullshit all over the place. I had a moment in my life where I would've considered myself atheist, but that is long gone.
>>724859667 Probably because they are intelligent enough to know religion is a disease and want to spread the idea of critical thinking and not being a dumb cunt who believes some old book without any proof or evidence. Or something.
>>724860962 I can see where you are coming from. Like I have said, mindless Christian fucks piss me off, but I still want to believe in something. Yet I am still able to think about anything logically without God's rules getting in my way. Or something.
>>724861267 Believing in God defies any logical reasoning. It's fuckwits like you that help enable other fuckwits who use those same beliefs to commit atrocities. If every 'moderate' religious person thought about things logically and shunned religion, it would be a lot easier to block the extremists without meeting opposition from moderate fucktards who can't string a logical argument together.
>>724861916 I could say the same of Atheism, every following on Earth has the bad bunch. It's just your elitist mindset that Religions that follow a superior being are the most fucked, although I would say is for the most part true.
>>724862269 It's not elitist, it's the only school of thought that doesn't rely on huge leaps and "faith". I wouldn't call myself an atheist, more an atheistic agnostic, as I believe there's no way to know. I believe that religion can do good, but it can also do great evil.
It's more offensive to me that religious groups demand concessions despite having no evidence for their beliefs. They should be punished for not thinking about it logically.
>>724863010 Doesn't matter if it's a religion of violence or a religion of peace, it's promoting faith in things that you have no evidence for. It is literally enabling ignorance, saying it's fine to not think about something and fight for it anyway.
A friend of min who's an evolutionary biologist and devout Catholic were discussing conceptions of God and he put it to me like this: you're red-green colorblind, and when I look at the same things you do I see an extra piece of contrast that, while physically measurably is the same for both of us, is phenomenologically entirely different for me -- I experience God like that pretty much all the time, though more internally than externally; you apparently do not. (That is what he said to me)
So tell me about verifiable objective proof of the qualia of the color red, and you will be a world-famous philosopher.
>>724863270 Yeah I know plenty that don't preach it, but I also know a good few who act as if they speak for the whole, just like some people like to blame people of faith. You can't place the actions of few followers on the whole. Which is what it looks like you are doing.
He's not saying there's objective proof -- he explicitly said there isn't. He compared the phenomenology of God instead to the notion in philosophy of "qualia", which for an example I used the color red.
But you apparently lack the reading comprehension to figure that out.
It's also a complete misunderstanding of almost every "self-enlightened atheist" I've talked to that religious people claim their belief is based on the notion that there is some objective proof of said belief, or that their conception of God is a conception of some physical person or "man in the sky." That's pretty much just what the Dawkins-era atheist believes that religious people believe, which is why they all accuse Dawkins of attacking strawmen.
>>724864578 Any reasonable person capable of cognitive thought would not believe that a repeated story that's been handed down over centuries means anything and should be held up, sometimes above actual human rights.
>>724865185 Crutch for the weak minded. Society needs to encourage the idea that you don't need religion to be a good person, and that it encourages people to be okay with accepting and believing things that have no real basis in reality.
>>724865588 That's what happens when you constantly read about fucking morons doing dumb or hateful shit in the name of religion, day in and day out. People need to be taught to THINK, not base their life on some old book that may or may not be total fiction.
>>724865974 >People need to be taught to THINK, not base their life on some old book
If you took the time to THINK, you'd see that >>724863570 suggests, along with the testimony of most believers, that their faith is not based on the book but on something else, with the book (if any -- most religions do not have infallible scripture) considered complementary.
>>724867301 This kind of thinking assumes humankind will never progress or think past what is told to them in church.
Why can that religion hole not be filled by society itself? Don't kill people because it's wrong, don't rape or steal because it hurts other people. Not because you're scared of worse consequences after you're dead.
>>724866681 But where does the idea of that religion come from in the first place? The book, idiot.
>>724867671 idk what to tell you man, that's too much faith in the collective. For every dude that feels guilty there are twice as many that only feel guilty when their caught, and even ten times as many that don't feel any remorse whatsoever.
>>724863570 >I experience God like that pretty much all the time, what the fuck does that mean?
how does he know he is experiencing god? could he possibly be mistaken?
that is some serious sophistry is that argument. he is rooting his "difference in experience" off of differences in sensory responses to physical objects. Extrapolating that idea to "experiencing god or not experiencing god" just doesn't make sense. what is he experience related to? Just the pure concept of god?
Everyone says "I'm happy. I feel God." No one every says "God loved me enough to give me cancer." "God is so forgiving he dropped a house on my grandmother in a tornado." "I love God and obviously God loves me because he let my dad be robbed and shot by a nigger."
>>724868340 where are you getting these ratios from? how do you know those statements are anywhere close to reality? Just because they seem reasonable to you doesn't mean there is a shred of reality to them.
it's these kind of mindless assumptions and unchecked thoughts that enable religions to exist in the first place.
I am not religious, I am able to differentiate between right and wrong (or at least what is perceived to be right and wrong in my society). I don't need religion for that, am I special? I don't feel like I'm any more equipped than anyone else other than I've spent more time thinking about it. If society encouraged this kind of thing, we'd be fine without religion.
You're going to get fuckwits, no doubt, but religion acts as an excuse for them. Without religion, they are just nasty, evil people and are easier to separate from the rest of society as they have no 'acceptable' banner to wave in order to have protection from some.
>>724867777 This is why I hate these conversations -- because you are inevitably way too ignorant to be so sure of yourself. If you like talking about religion and philosophy so much, you really should study it a little bit more.
First a note on reading comprehension: I said most religions don't have infallible scripture. Christianity is one religion of many.
A historical note: most of the New Testament books were assembled around 200 CE, and most were only written starting by nearly 100 CE, so Christianity went a good while without solid scripture. Then in the Western Church up until the Reformation, no layperson could actually read/study the bible unless they were all four of: rich, influential, could read, and knew Latin, so all they got was one line per week at Mass, which also was in Latin. After the Reformation the Catholic Church was still conducting Mass in Latin across the world until the 1950s, so the source of scripture was still one-line-per-day/week for the illiterate masses (as most of the world still was). And that's ONLY Christianity. So no, no book for the vast majority of Christians until the last 50 years.
>>724870401 No wait I've got really confused, that's exactly what I meant, it's your reply that threw me.
What I mean is that people relate these "experiences of god" to a book that could very likely just be a load of nonsense. Written 100 years after the events at a time when lifespan could only be 30 years or so. Why do unrelated "personal god experiences" serve to affirm people's beliefs in a book that is likely bullshit?
While it's true that you can't prove a god doesn't exist, you certainly can prove that all organised religions are a fiction.
Look at the Bible's translation history. Look at how Christianity just changes with the flow of society. Followers of Christianity today would be considered pure blasphemy 200 years ago, and vice versa. You wait for another 50-100 years when abortion is okay, homosexuality isn't a sin, whatever, just because they're things society have deemed immoral. The Bible has no meaning. Even its interpretation is nothing but a fleeting fiction.
Did you ever stop to consider that maybe you don't fully understand what these people's conceptualization of God is?
As I said, you seem interested in this subject, so read some background on philosophy and the history of religion -- plato.stanford.edu is a good place to poke around -- and also talk to people you know and *only* ask them questions.
The VAST majority of people don't a religion. People believe what others around them believe. Hence if you were born in Israel you'd be a believing Jew. Born in Saudi Arabia, a Muslim. Born in America, a Christian. People are products of their environments and too stupid to think for themselves. Those that can think critically become atheist.
>>724872437 That sounds like it strays away from major religions though? I understand people may have a different conception of god, but then surely they wouldn't need a religion or scriptures if their relationship was based purely on these personal experiences? Is it coincidence that these experiences seem to tie in with what they've read in scripture?
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