Why do Americans hate the NHS so much? I just don't understand

propaganda, and bad education.

combined with a pathological fear of Commie nazi socialist freedom-hating russian NHS agents.

though I expect the nazi bit is OK nowadays.

>>723057017
Free healthcare = liberalism = Anti-American, Anti-White, anti-Christian.

>>723057017
There is no such thing as free healthcare. Someone has to pay for it unless you convince doctors to work for free. High tax rates, doctor shortages, and long waiting periods to see them are all consequences of socialized medicine. Ever wonder why rich people from other countries come to the US for major procedures?

If socialized medicine is so great why are Britain's doctors going on strike?

>>723057354
The year cost of taxes that go towards healthcare is less than one hospitals visit costs in america.
That argument doesn't hold up.

>>723057354
>There is no such thing as free healthcare.
All NHS services are free to the end user regardless of their income or amount of payment into the system.

>>723057481
That was a dispute about a change of conditons to junior doctors working contracts. It had nothing to do with the quality of care.

>>723057728
>All NHS services are free to the end user
>Someone has to pay for it
You seem to miss anon's point entirely

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>>723057017
Trump has "socialized" healthcare, and so does his entire family now.

Every member of the US military has "socialized" medicine.

Every member of the US congress has healthcare insurance paid for by US taxpayers. and they are very glad to have it - even as they tell you that Americans hate healthcare paid by tax dollars.

Everybody hates socialized medicine, but it is better than any of the other healthcare alternatives.

>>723057017
Because we're a free market capitalist country and you're taking the free market out of healthcare.

>>723057923
Nothing is free when you put it under your terms. Everything has to come from somewhere. 'Here try a free sample' "Durr hurr well it's not free is it someone had to make it and get paid for the ingredients" Yeah no shit sherlock.

>>723058354
No. You can choose private healthcare in the UK too, it's just that with the NHS everyone is entitled to the same level of care regardless of circumstance. If you wish to choose another provider that is up to you, although funny how those with private care run back to the NHS the moment they're faced with anything serious or costly like cancer.

>>723057923
You seem to have missed the point that the tax towards healthcare (around 2%) is per year generally less than the cost of a single hospital visit in america.

>>723057923
It's free to use, like your local library. Obviously the service is paid for via taxation but there is no cost associated with the individual according to the quantity or cost of services received e.g. if you get a £20,000 operation the level of tax you pay as an individual will not increase.

if i get a brain aneurism i want a proper trained american surgeon not some europoor intern with a rusty scalpol

>>723057354
Wow. So without free healthcare in the us you don't pay income tax then. Nor do you have to pay for health insurance.

Oh wait. You totally do. So it's exactly the same except we - Britishers - don't have to pay the insurance bit. Sooo we're better off and have free healthcare.

Fuck you yanks.

Because the idea of socialism working is threatening to the capitalist elite.

Afghanistan was a perfectly healthy socialist country, so America stirred up and funded the religious right to take over as an FU to russia.

Then spread the idea that it's the peoples money is being stolen to pay for things they didn't earn.

Nobody should have to pay to live. And people on higher wages still lead better lives because they wouldn't have to pay for the hoapital either. But fear and self interest play in America, and that's why the tangerine is now in charge.

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National Debt: $19,923,829,395,684.76

Almost to 20 boys!

>>723060888
small price to pay for F-35 jets and hamburgers

>>723060204
Judging by your ignorance and your spelling, I think you have already had your aneurysm.

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>>723057017

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>>723060723

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>>723060474

>>723061507
>doesn't know difference between communism and socialism
>but LIBERALS are the problem
>......

>>723057017
NHS of..who? Canada? The land of waiting 6 weeks for an MRI result?
Or the UK, where the NHS has collapsed and been rebuilt FOUR times since 1970?
Sweden, Germany, Finland, France, Belgium? They still use amoxycillin as a cure-all. It's woefully out of date with the emerging superbugs of this decade.

>>723057213
Well America was never christian, so...

National honors society?

The ones who continually bark the loudest as far as wanting these 'free' programs are typically the ones paying the least into the system.

As someone who makes pretty good money, why would I want to receive the same shit Healthcare as some lazy nigger and their 5 children just because I chose to make better life choices?

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>>723058067
Did this guy seriously try to use the VA as an upstanding and successful example of socialist medicine?

holy fuckin kek

sick and dying soldiers laying in beds under a roof that was literally rotting over their heads

>>723057017
Reagan... fucking Reagan.

Such a horrible fucking president that did so much fucking damage to the country, that it's still feeling the effects today.

- Increased the ability of lobbyists.
- Started a war on drugs.
- Convinced Americans that socialism is just another name for communism, and communism is for dirty Russians.

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>>723061630
Clearly the uneducated one here is you.

>>723061630
>thinks theres capitalist liberals out there
An autocratic progressive. Riiiiight.
Man. You need to wake up from that fever-dream.

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>>723061630

well the thing other countries don't understand is that everything "government" in the US is fucking shit if it's public facing.. go to the DMV and wait in line for fucking 8 hours to talk to an "equal opportunity" high school dropout just so that they can talk down to you and tell you to come back the next day, then tell me that you want the government near hospitals..

or, if you want another example, fucking airport customs or security checkpoints.

our doctors might be shit and overprescribe EVERYTHING, but at least the government isn't sending in the dindunuffins to nurse when they're under qualified

>>723061675

There is no national religion, but it was undeniably founded on Judeo Christian priciples.

>>723061673
You do realize if you WANT to pay, you can get your shit much faster through private clinics and what not.

Also I like knowing that not having told my coverage that I got my Wisdom Teeth out way back when I was 18 is grounds enough to cancel any costly treatments should I get Cancer or some debilitating disease when they actually start to look for any ways to drop your ass.

>>723061798

Try getting up off your ass and actually apply yourself instead of expecting the red carpet to be laid at your feet to the villa of endless job opportunities.

Takes a bit more than just bitching about how the world isn't fair to better yourself.

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>>723061943
This is their agenda, people. Open your eyes. Stop being fooled.

>>723057017
The NHS imprisons people as psychopaths for failing a psychiatric exam. No matter what the attending physician thinks, the NHS dictates imprisonment based on the test score alone.

The NHS considers homeopathy scientific and even pays for homeopathy-only hospitals, where patients are prescribed water based treatments at enormous markups at taxpayer expense.

The NHS justifies all of its incompetence and malpractice by saying, "We're the good guys! You're evil for hating free healthcare!" whenever the slightest criticism of the NHS' many problems is raised, so that rather than letting the problems get fixed, there are arguments about the morality of welfare.

/thread

>>723062152
watching these liberals cry salty tears warms my cold dead heart up ughhhhh

>>723062022
Typical response from a fucking moron.

Anyone who wants security is of course some sort of lazy asshole, and not someone who wants security. I already got fucked over on my non-union job. Don't want my insurance company to fuck me over if I get some sort of debilitating illness.

>>723057213
Free healthcare is not a liberal Idea. Lrn2 political ideology

>>723061823
>>723061825
>>723061879

mornin' samefag

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>>723062286

>>723061507
>>723061549
>free access to healthcare in otherwise capitalist system
>OMG SOCIALISM DOESN'T WORK

Britain takes it up the arse for business, there are so many tax loopholes available to big businesses we practically pay the cunts to operate here. It's about as far from socialism as you can get and the NHS is one of the few remaining public services yet to be privatised because the fact is, it works pretty fucking well by comparison, and even selfish middle England geriatrics would be up in arms if the Tories scrapped it.

>>723062351
You do realize that your cunt god there resorted to government handouts and assistance in the end right?

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>>723062408
Sure kid. You're not fooling anyone. The people have spoken, liberalism is dead.

>>723062416
do as i say not as i do (not that i finished atlas shrugged, it had too much dumb BDSM stuff in it for me)

>>723062408
I don't think it's feasible for the US though, just too many fucking people. They already spend 1.7 trillion a year on their current Healthcare system.

>>723062543
PETA is good with that too. The VP for a while was telling people to stop taking medications that were tested on animals. Meanwhile she was a diabetic who was using insulin that was tested on animals.

>>723057017
I live in Canada with "free" healthcare and it blows. Nothing USB free. The coverage is pure shit and hospital wait times r ridiculous. And as long as u make over 25k ur paying monthly for this shit ass coverage

>>723057017
Because paying for fatties to have quadruple bypasses while you get told your condition doesn't warrant additional treatment is bullshit.

>>723062674
Yet you still have an option to pay for better service through private clinics. The US doesn't have the freebie to fall back on.

>>723061961
lol no it wasn't.

"The United States of America is in no sense founded on the Christian religion." -The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams

Stop listening to what Fox news tells you about American history, dumbass.

>>723057017
Because free Healthcare isn't free for me. I work hard to provide for myself. I've worked hard all my life to get where I am and my family worked hard all their lives to provide a stable home for me to launch from. I shouldn't have to subsidize the poor decision making of the reSt of my species. When I was growing up if you couldn't afford Healthcare you know what we did? We went without Healthcare for awhile and acted a little more carefully.

Healthcare in America:
Hospitals cannot deny you care, period. You have an emergency, you will be cared for regardless of income.
2. Cost of treatment is quite low if you don't go through insurance. Catastrophic coverage can be purchase at reasonable cost (usually).
3. Single-payer would work here if only the politicians weren't such faggots. Our interactions with government services (state and federal) are so poor that we can't be blamed for thinking "we've already given you so much money and you wasted it, why should you get more to squander"?

>>723060474
Your taxes are quite high though aren't they? And maybe I'd you guys paid for some insurance your teeth wouldn't look so fucked up

>>723060474
I am glad you like how the UK does thimgs. Stay there. We do not like how the UK does things so we have no intention of doing things the way the UK does things.

Because middle class working people can no longer afford to pay for and use their health care, while illegal immigrants are getting elective vaginoplasty surgery after having 5 kids on the dole.

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>>723062912
Shots fired.

>>723062224
>The NHS imprisons people as psychopaths for failing a psychiatric exam. No matter what the attending physician thinks, the NHS dictates imprisonment based on the test score alone.

What? Ignoring the fact that the 'attending physician' is part of the NHS (what do you actually think the NHS is?) a duty mental health officer separate from the NHS must give authority to section someone under the mental health act and a police officer must also be present. It's a decision not taken lightly, I can assure you, not least because it costs a fucking fortune to put someone in psychiatric care and there is a significant bed shortage, so you can bet that if someone is detained for mental health reasons, they're pretty fucking mental.

>The NHS considers homeopathy scientific and even pays for homeopathy-only hospitals, where patients are prescribed water based treatments at enormous markups at taxpayer expense.

In the past when the economy was better an infinitesimal amount of resources were allocated to homeopathic treatments. It's extremely unusual though and rarely happens; in the few cases it is approved it's through patient driven request.

>The NHS justifies all of its incompetence and malpractice by saying

What? We have a proper legal system here, if malpractice occurs you can pursue it through the courts like anywhere else.

>/thread

Fuck off newfag.

>>723062912
Except straightening out wonky teeth in adults isn't often a medical issue, so insurance doesn't cover it most of the times, and when it does, it will cover a small amount.

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>>723062912

>>723063094
Maybe your parents should've paid for good insurance when you were a kid you poor eurocuck piece of garbage.

>>723062729
I'd still have that option without a freebie to fall back on and I wouldn't be forced to pay for a service I haven't used in 2 years
Also I think insurance rates would be cheaper if the whole country wasn't under this "basic" coverage of healthcare

>>723063002
/thread

>>723057017
My "free" healthcare comes with a $2000 dollar deductible, and $150/month fee.

It's not free dodo, and I pay so much for it, I can't afford the $100 visit to the doctor for the cold I have.

>>723062731

One nation, under God.

Also, don't see what Fox news has to do with anything.

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>>723063002
Couldn't have said it better myself.

>>723063223
Dude, you're lucky. I'd take the freebie.

My uncle got his insurance cut off when he got cancer and needed treatment. They'll take your money fine, but once you get something that's going to cost them, they look into your application with a fine toothed comb.

He forgot to mention he had his Wisdom Teeth pulled when he was 19... so they cut him off.

Insurance is a business, and the primary goal of a business is to make money. Cancer and shit like that costs more to treat than you've ever put in. So they WILL try to fuck you.

>>723062406

my roughly 350k salary (up by 25k this year) and net worth that just passed 1MM in 2016 will probably make it through the reign of the cheeto, hell I'll probably make a windfall since he'll drive up equity prices, but it's getting really hard for me to keep trying to vote for your sorry ass' best interests.

I don't want to say "fuck you, I got mine" but I sure could.

>>723063505
lol OK my redneck friend.

>>723063505
What do you do?

>>723063349
>thinking "One Nation Under God" was something that was always a part of the Pledge of Allegiance and not added in the 1950s by Bible-beating morons like yourself

Fox News loves to tell dumb shits like you (their main demographic) that kind of bullshit.

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>blah blah Fox News blah i'm educated hurdurr Bibles yadda yadda

>>723062224
>implying this doesn't happen in all health care systems
KYS

>>723057017

Frenchfag here, "free" healthcare here as well. It's shit, you have to wait 6 months to get a fucking appointment to the doctor.

>>723063650

Look man you don"t need to beat a bible to recognize the nation was founded on Judeo Christian PRINCIPLES. Your rabid hostility toward the notion is narrow minded.

>>723057017
Amerifats are scared to death that their taxes will be used to aid their countrymen. They prefer that these funds are spent on murdering brown people and stealing their oil.

>>723063646
IT Exec for one of the biggest banks in the country. Right now I'm responsible for one of the largest projects in technology, >$200MM over 3 years.

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>>723057160

15 year old edge lord from Europe.

Kill yourself

>>723063480
The freebie isn't free and it isn't good. My dad lost his job and had to get a new one without the same benefits. My mom was sick in the hospital toward the end of her life. So now my dad had to pay for basic insurance and private insurance to help cover my mom's hospital stays. I'm pretty sure we would have been better off only paying for one insurance. I don't need the extra hand of government in the healthcare system, I only see it as wasteful

>>723063865
You mean shit like Don't Steal, Don't Murder, don't do any of the shit that is bad? Yeah such Christian principles and not logical conclusions for any theology.

>>723063947
How old?

>>723063865
Did you not read that fucking quote I gave you direct from the hand of one of the founding fathers of the country? Go ahead believing muh Jesus had shit to do with the philosophical foundations of this country and not secular humanist principles like those championed by Thomas Paine all you want, that won't make you right. Maybe stop listening to Milo about everything and do some fucking research.

>>723062912
taxes are about the same, in Europe its mainly one bulk, in the us its taxes plus additional mandatory faggotry which in the end evens out the amount.

we pay roughly the same

MUH SOCIALISM IS BAD

>disregarding the fact that we have things like socialized education and that it's a damn good thing we do

B-BUT SOCIALISM IS ALWAYS EVIL!!!11!!1!

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>>723064020
>implying all religions advise people not to steal or murder

>being this fucking stupid

kek

This thread is absolute CANCER.
Can't muricaans tell the difference between socialism and communism?
Like, how dumb are you?
Socialism isn't a solution to things, neither is capitalism.
You need a mix between the 2.
But murican's are too stupid to understand such a simple thing as helping your fellow humans to strive for a healthier and kinder society.

>>723064201

> socialized education is a good thing
yeah right... that's why everyone want to study in the USA

>>723064015

But I mean, even the basic logic of it has got to make sense. A private company has no obligation or duty whatsoever to their customers, only their investors. A government program's only responsibility is to the people. All other problems stem from that.

>>723064205
Islam, Judaism, Catholicism, all the big ones cover those basics. Shit even Scientology covers that shit.

Don't be a fucktard and think that your super special religion is unique and invented morality when "don't steal, don't murder, etc" would be a natural fucking progression for any growing society.

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>>723064263
See
>>723061823

Your opinions mean about as much as a citizen's today when arguing against George Washington about founding the United States. That's how stupid you sound right now.

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>>723064205
>implying any functioning civilization didn't have injunctions against murder and theft

>implying muh Bible is the best example of moral commands, not knowing shit about the Code of Hammurabi for instance, which long pre-dates it

>>723061891
Neither is our government
You cant just rock up and be an NHS nurse without having enough qualifications

>>723062551
That's because people don't have the insurance to actually pay for the hospital bills and go into medical induced bankruptcy.

Among other factors, having a system similar to Canada or Britain would save taxpayers half a trillion.

>>723057017
Your concept of the word free is way the fuck off.

>>723064282
>yeah right... that's why everyone want to study in the USA

You do realize colleges in other countries aren't free right? When talking about socialized education, people are talking about K-12. Higher education still costs.

It would be nice to have some socialized colleges so the poor can have at least a fighting chance, but that shit ain't going to happen.

>>723064125
Stop focusing on what some faggot wanted 200 years ago and focus on what we need now.
>>723064263
Lets mash 2 opposing ideals and expect them to work
Libertarianism or AnCap are better ideas than this

>>723064263
Murica is a large, politically diverse country with many ideologies and subcultures. It's inevitable that we don't agree.
>>723064282
They do. Colleges and Universities are full of Chinese, Japanese and Indian students.

>>723063072
That's pretty much a dictatorship though.

By socialism, many are referencing socialist systems mixed with a capitalist economy that actually works in many other countries at a much lower cost.

>>723063947
40's, so no I didn't cause all this shit by voting for all the shit the boomers voted for without paying for it. fuck those guys.

>>723064277
Those school shooters were mentally ill you fucking retard.
>inb4 Liberalism is a mental disorder.
That argument doesn't work.

Private companies have paid top dollar for politicians to let people know that socialism is a big evil meanie.

What I don't understand is why anyone thinks paying people to pay for you makes any sense.

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>>723064125
>>723064020

You know you can find these answers very quickly with a simple Google search. I'm not going to continue to debate you because you're a disrespectful cunt, but I'd recommend you get your information somewhere other than Facebook once in a while. They're just going to keep feeding you articles you want to believe.

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>>723064582

>>723064420
No one outside the US thinks that.

We mock your country for being so fucking retarded most of the time.

>>723064451
Code of Harambe? THOU SHALT NOT KILL GORILLAS.

>>723063280
That's because your system is broken.
All Canadians are covered for doctor visits, life-saving surgeries, etc.

You have to have insurance here in Canada for prescriptions, dental and optometry, although many insurance companies are cheap here in Canada.

>>723064541
That's what scholarships are for, I'll admit the system doesn't work though. What is Yale going to do with a $22 billion endowment if not pay for students' tuition?

>>723064263
best get used to it newfag, americans have been doing this for decades and it wont go away any time soon.

virtually anything they don't like is either communism or Nazism. they simply are not interested in differentiating or don't know how.

>>723064282
Have you ever been to a country WITHOUT socialized healthcare, my autistic friend? They're invariably shitholes, because guess what? As any one with half a brain might predict, kids with rich parents get to get educated and kids with poor parents are left having to do whatever awful degrading shit they have to to earn a buck or two so they can even go to school and MAYBE have a shot at rising beyond their shitty circumstances.

Socialized education (making sure everyone is guaranteed a minimum education standard) raises the prosperity floor of the country, creating another guarantee that everyone has equal opportunity for success regardless of the circumstances of their birth.

Socialism isn't some binary thing. It's not a choice between libertarian anarchy and North Korea. It's a gradient. How much socialism do you want, and where. To honestly think no socialism at all would be a good thing is a great sign of autism.

>>723064558
We don't just mash them fucknut.
If you carefully construct a state that both provides healthcare and a socialistic infrastructure but the "freedom" of capitalism and the right for people to decide what to be and do it would have all the benefits of capitalism and socialism.

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>>723064691
>no one anywhere thinks this because: i said so

kek sure kid sure

you're just another brainwashed goon, have fun in the bread lines

>>723064664
See
>>723064020

>>723057017

>wanting working class people to be treated the same as rich people in hospitals
>not wanting povvos to be kept in endless debt if they are unwell

FUCKING COMMIE!!!

>>723064741
This is pretty much what Medicare is in America. We have a system, just no push to expand it to everyone.

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>>723064857
>"freedom"

Why would someone put the word freedom in quotation marks. Could it be because you know socialist countries aren't really free and just slaves to their government in exchange for a few peanuts? Pathetic.

>>723064870
I'm sure there are probably a few people in Canada, the UK, etc that think the US is star spangled awesome. But the majority of us think you're fucked. You give the corporation who fuck you over again and again and again even more control because "fuck the government". Reagan sure did fuck you guys over.

Just know that (for the most part) you are pretty much the laughing stock of the world ATM.

>>723064664
>source: Prager "University"

KEK are you serious, you autistic faggot? That's the best you could find at I'mright.com

Might as well ask Osama Bin Laden if Muhammad was a good guy or not.

You'd better stop debating, moron. Not only are you wrong, but you're terrible at it.

>>723064790
True, but it's sad to see so many people just being fucking retarded.

>>723064541
Higher education is free in some countries. All Scottish Universities are free to attend for nationals and EU countries that return the favour (e.g. not England). We have a pretty good standard of education here I think it's fair to say.

>>723064790
Maybe we just like being different? After all, if we really wanted socialism we would just vote for socialists. Bernie Sanders would've been President if it weren't for the rigged Democratic primary.

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>>723065037
http://www.aei.org/publication/why-medicares-failure-matters/

>>723064825
*education*

>>723065041
And capitalist countries are slaves to the corporations who can be cut off on a whim.

You NEED a balance between Capitalism and Socialism. They sort of prevent each other from pure fuckery.

>>723063892
>>723063072

you americans really have no idea what socialism is

>Top 10 Most Socialist Countries in the Worl

China
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium

OK so I wouldn't want to live in China but the rest are solid western democracies with a shit ton better quality of life than your fucked up country

http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/

>>723059319
>>723057728
But in reality for a normal person visiting the hospital doesnt happen, so those 7 years you pay that tax can be accounted for that one visit.

If you go a lot then sure YOU are getting your moneys worth, and for an average joe who goes to the doctor for a temporary sickness its just to get a prescription to make them feel better

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>>723065082
>tldr; we jealous of The United States

>>723064659
its a lottery isn't it, will I get sick or you? how much will it cost? and can the costs be covered by an individual or through taxes or what.

basically everyone pays so more stay healthy or get better which serves the economy because healthy people =

and a more liberal stance would be something like a rich society should take care of its weaker members.

Yes we pay for the NHS with a tax, it is called National Insurance. The NHS provides care that is "free at the point of access", so while you may say it is not free, it may as well be.

Our doctors are not any less qualified than US doctors, nor our nurses, our physiotherapists or our radiographers.
We are happy to pay NI because it is health insurance like yours, but it is government run, and is NOT FOR PROFIT. You Americans pay more than necessary for your healthcare as the insurance companies are out to make money.
Your government also spends more per person on healthcare, paid for by your taxes, but you dont get the benefit of free access to healthcare.

I invite any of you to come at me and try to persuade me im wrong.

>>723057017
Haha
Do they?
America doesn't have health care.
Nothing like the UK haha

>>723065205
Hitting me with a conservative source doesn't affect my opinion. No doubt Medicare is shit, but the structure is there and could be made to work (wishful thinking).

>>723065334
As a Canadian, I go every year. Annual check ups. Physicals, prostate exam every 5 years, etc.

>>723065191
I guess you proved my point then.

>>723065340
lol... no. Not even in the slightest. Keep telling yourself that though.

>>723063304
Funny to then post the master of supply-side economics - I mean, how well is that trickle-down bullshit working out for you US fags? Oh, 95% of economic gains the last five years went to the top 1%? The system works perfectly, if that's what you're after. The rest of us, not so much.

And I'm happy to be called a socialist, communist, whatever - the tide of history is against you, and capitalism is a dying economic philosophy, if it doesn't kill humanity first.

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>>723065297
>You have no idea what socialism is!
>Socialism and Communism aren't the same thing!

>Top 10 Most Socialist Countries in the World
>China

>The Communist Party of China (CPC) [a] is the founding and ruling political party of the People's Republic of China (PRC).

Holy shit you idiots make it way too easy to see through your bullshit. This is why no one takes you seriously but if you keep trying to push your failed bullshit you'll see just how far Americans will go to defend our Democracy as afforded by, and in defense of, The Constitution.

>>723065334
But in those 7 years, an american would pay for insurance too, but they would also pay for the insurance company to pay their staff and make profit, we just cut out the profit making middleman in an otherwise caputalist society while still providing the free choice to choose to insure yourself for private healthcare

>>723065499
Guess I did, I must be tired. I'm simply saying that we ended up going hard right even though $hillary was supposed to make things better.

>>723064659
Make more sense than paying a company (whose goal is to make money), and then hoping they don't find a way to fuck you over if you get some sort of debilitating illness.

>>723064664
next your going to tell me buzzfeed is also a accurate source right?

Just to address the argument that "free healthcare is shit rich people don't use it" - I am from a pretty fortunate background and I know very few people with private healthcare unless it's a freebie through their job - dentistry and cosmetic surgery are generally the only exceptions. I could easily afford private care but there really isn't any point in the UK, if you are genuinely ill you will promptly receive the treatment that you require to a high standard.

>>723065579

wat

>of course communism and socialism aren't the same thing, but they are related.

also lol pick the one item on the list already marked as questionable

that's like saying we shouldn't have democracy because the US is basically a failed state, ignoring all of the rest of the world who don't elect asset strippers to their highest office

>>723065579
Similar to how in the past the Democrats and Republican ideals were switched. It's the same with the CPC, they no longer want communism, but a socialist / capitalist mix.

>>723062758
>I shouldn't have to subsidize the poor decision making of the reSt of my species
You pay for roads you never drive on
You pay for schools you never send your kids to
You pay for police protection, even if you've never called them once
You pay for the fire dept, even if your house isn't on fire
You pay for rockets to the space station that you'll never ride on

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>>723065923
>>723065935

more propaganda
you can see this shit a mile away anons
don't be fooled
do not relinquish your freedom

>>723065334
You're a sheep American who falls for the same nonsense that this fellow >>723065485 is able to work around. The American Healthcare system discourages behavior such as annual checkups. In the end these checkups save more money for the system as preventing a disease is infinitely cheaper than curing or treating it until they're dead. But noooo, Big Pharma sees plain and clear that preventing a disease is also much less profitable than throwing drugs at it.

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>>723057017
I think the argument is that forcing a private citizen to pay for a private product is inherently unconstitutional.

which from that point of view I kind of understand, because if you can force a person to buy one thing, then where are the limits? why not force them to buy a set amount of healthy food a month?

I personally do think people should be given free healthcare along with the tax burden that comes with it, but I get the point if you're arguing from a constitutional perspective

The weird thing is this: In Austria I shell out around 300-400€ a month for healthcare (in terms of taxes) and I get a VERY basic coverage. I once went to an American Health Insurance company and let them give me a quote via their only formula and it came up to about 325$. I am just wondering why force people to buy health care if it's readily available anyways. Can anybody tell me?

>>723060888
That's not an accurate picture of finance.

It only shows debt, not income (or in this case GDP).

It's like trying to estimate your finances by only looking at your credit card bills and not your paycheck relative to those bills.

>>723066087
Freedom to get fucked over by corporations? You know the same corporations who actually tried to lobby for piracy to get JAIL TIME in addition to massive fines.

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>>723066087

enjoy your slow descent into serfdom

>>723062731
>"The United States of America is in no sense founded on the Christian religion." -The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams
>The logic employed by this treaty: "We agree to consider this true, as a matter of international law, and therefore it is"
um no it isn't
the beliefs galileo held about physics and the solar system were illegal too, but i don't fucking see mars following a uniform trajectory across the sky as might be expected in a geocentric model, do you?
law is the final authority on what it's safe to do and say, not on what actually is the case

>>723062828
yeah, and the problem with capitalism is that you eventually run out of other people's lifeblood

or, rather, that you don't, because more people keep coming along, and consequently everyone suffers constantly except for you

>>723066317

this

> T H E R I C H

>>723066173
>why not force them to buy a set amount of healthy food a month?

in allot of countries this is actually promoted through cheaper healthcare if you work/join a fitness/etc.

>I am just wondering why force people to buy health care if it's readily available anyways.
its not a free system like oxygen and gravity, shit needs to be paid for and costs are getting ridiculously (mainly due to pharmaceutical monopolies worldwide)

>>723065259
Exactly. They prevent eachother. But you need to balance them.

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>>723066432
What do you produce exactly? What have you produced today? This week? This month?

How are rich people reaching into your pocket asking you to pay for their healthcare?

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>>723066432

>>723066317
i like how this is just as much a criticism of rampant capitalism as it is a criticism of rampant socialism

dear corporations: acquiring monopolies on natural resources people were already perfectly capable of accessing with a bit of work, doing that work for them, and refusing to permit access to the resources except as processed thusly, isn't "producing"; it's just being a pig

>>723066431
Nigger what are you on about? If the founding fathers built this country on Christianity AT ALL, they wouldn't have signed off on a thing which said "The United States of America is IN NO SENSE FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION." Especially if they were Christian, which most of them weren't...

Are you autistic too?

>>723057017
Only the moronic Americans AKA conservatives

>>723066554
I think you might misunderstand my point, or maybe I was wrong about the concept of the ACA: What's the inherent difference between either forcing people to have coverage (like we do in Austria) and just taxing less but having healthcare service providers (like the one I mentioned) that costs about the same?

Or let me rephrase: How much did it on average cost to get basic coverage before any of the ACA or Obama-Care stuff was enacted??

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>>723066829
So why didn't you start a natural resource access business? Oh right. You don't want to work, just whine about how things are so unfair and you should have a lamborghini too.

>>723057354
>Ever wonder why rich people from other countries come to the US for major procedures?
Yes, america has great health care for the super rich.
But if you aren't super rich you should probably vote for whomever is for "socialist" medicine.

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>>723057017

>Why do Americans hate the NHS so much?

Many of them don't understand it.

>>723066854
>If the founding fathers built this country on Christianity AT ALL, they wouldn't have signed off on a thing which said "The United States of America is IN NO SENSE FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION."
Yes they would. They signed that document because it was their INTENTION that the US should not be founded on Christianity. That doesn't mean that's what actually happened.
>Especially if they were Christian, which most of them weren't...
Yes they were. And that's exactly why this country wound up founded on Christianity, even though they didn't want it to. You can't just disown ideals you're brought up with and be done with it. It's not that easy. They inform your behavior for the rest of your life whether you like it or not.

>>723066578

Are you kidding? OK 'rich' isn't quite the word, but unchecked capitalism fucks people up continually

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3726278/As-MP-pursuing-Philip-Green-meets-fraud-squad-BHS-collapse-Sir-Shifty-superyacht-sail-on.html

oh and i produce degenerate literature to bring about the new world order

>>723062912
>Your taxes are quite high though aren't they?
Not as high as your taxes + the cost of your health care system.
And with our system nobody ends up economically fucked by getting ill, or having a family member fall ill.

>>723066568
That's the point. In the US the balance is gone, the power is purely in the hands of the corporations. And that power is buying even more power and more changes and more control. Not on has the US lost the balance, but the people are actively fighting to make sure the power stays in the hands of the corporations.

>>723067005
>So why didn't you start a natural resource access business?
Because I was born after they were all already started.
>Oh right. You don't want to work
I would have been glad to enjoy a lifestyle of manually acquiring and processing natural resources in moderation for my own use free of charge, leaving plenty for everyone else to do the same, and honoring a universal agreement to leave business out of it. The alternative -- for a handful of entities to acquire the entirety of the resources, and be solely responsible for dealing in them -- is inherently unjust.

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>>723063223

>pay for a service I haven't used in 2 years

Another idiot not comprehending the concept of an insurance.

>>723066984
the fuck does it matter how you bill basic healthcare.
basic is the lowest legal mandatory standard, for us Dutchfags its about 100euros per month, anything else we want we need to pay for it ourselves (per month)

but we can get some back if income is on a low-tier level, through taxes, both for rent and healthcare.
I'm sure you guys do the same.

it is universal at the base but spreads out very wide above that and that's a nightmare to deal with through taxes.
especially since additional costs (lets say I want a dentist insurance on-top) is on me personally.
if it was through taxes my dentist insurance would be on everyone.

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>>723062758

>I work hard to provide for myself. I've worked hard all my life to get where I am and my family worked hard all their lives to provide a stable home for me to launch from

Now imagine it playing sad music for you.

>>723062022
I've been working since I was seventeen, I'm totally down with socialized medicine and think Reagan was a joke. Trickle down economics was a fat lie that every baby boomer bought and now parrots like it's the Bible, and any person who criticizes it is just a lazy millennial. The war on drugs only helped the for profit prison industry, and now anyone who even suggests any kind of government assistance is a welfare leech, no matter how much they pay into the broken system, it's taboo to even want it.

>>723067156
fucking lie and you know it. americans pay loads of additional shit that they decided not to call taxes but they are.

roughly its the same.

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>>723067120
And the rich are taking advantage of your "degenerate literature to bring about the new world order" how exactly?

Pic related, it's you. Also I don't need to tell you how laughable the dailymail is as a source for anything. They literally call themselves a tabloid unironically. You idiots really do make this too easy.

You're not fighting for some righteous cause because you think you're legitimately being taken advantage of for anything you produce or any value you provide. You're whining because you want the same things as you see some rich random person with and feel entitled to have them based on no logic, rationale, or merit whatosever aside from "but it's not faaaairrr."

>>723057017
>>723057017
>free

You mean government funded health service. Which comes from taxes.

Once in place you have no options. The government set the price and forces you to pay and forces you to use services.

No thank you

I can tell youre all very young here because you have no sense for work/taxation. You think its just free. "Momma pays for it all"

>>723061775
Limiting the food choices of burgers wouldn't be such a bad thing and you know that.

>>723067108
You couldn't make less sense if you tried, dumbass. Go ahead and tell me how the U.S. was somehow founded on Christianity in spite of the founding fathers' explicitly saying it wasn't and designing it to be completely secular...

>"You can't just disown ideals you're brought up with and be done with it. It's not that easy. They inform your behavior for the rest of your life whether you like it or not."

That isn't how shit works, buddy. So someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali can't help but live like a Muslim because she was raised in it even though she denounced it? It's possible for people to grow up and leave behind all or most of what they've been taught in favor of something they find more reasonable, which the founding fathers did. Most were deist and taught strongly against religious dogma.

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>>723067593

>I can tell youre all very young here because you have no sense for work/taxation.

What do you do for a living? Since your old, mature and still browse /b/ I imagine it goes along being a Lackey.

>>723067544
tbh i'm not personally being taken advantage of at all, in fact i do very well from the system, I just think having some industries which everyone uses, such as transport and healthcare, run by the state rather than companies looking for private gain is a good thing

>>723067282
On the one hand, there's no question the system you propose would be fair and just.

On the other, it would also be terribly archaic. You're basically saying you want us to regress to the stone age.

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>>723067666
If you need the government to hold your hand and tell you that eating 6 burgers a day may be bad for you instead of using common fucking sense then you're a failure at being an adult and should an hero. In the meantime, don't infringe on my personal freedom all because you're a complete dumbass who needs to eat a bullet.

"The rich take away and dont give it to me"

What youre doing is leaving the hen house and becoming adults. Finally you have to work hard and buy things for yourselves. You being spoiled rotten all your lives by momma think the rich will fill in what she used to do for you.

Whats going to happen is youll eventually grow up and have families. Youll soon see that you want your thousands of dollars because you go to the doctors maybe once a year if that and would rather spend your hard fucking earned money on your families. The kids need new shoes, th3 backpacks are falling apart, the school always asking for more money for trips and activities, the car keeps breaking down, you need gas, food for the family, the house doesnt run on free it costs thousands every month.

To think i should hand out more money for bullshit... is.. well... bullshit

So simply put... time to grow up

>>723067544

fair play on the Mail, but it was a well reported story...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37854657

...and only one example of thousands

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzonR81vVzM

>>723067805
Im work IT for the government actually. I make about 60k a year. I have two kids and a wife.

I dont want to pay for "free" healthcare little kid. Once you finish up college and become a big boy youll understand.

>>723063859
you really do not understand the difference between socialism and communism

ßß▲
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>>723067159
They are brainwashed sheeps. And they claim to be redpilled.

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>>723068009
This guy gets it. Stay strong.

▲
▲ ▲

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>>723062406

>>723067805
Why should anyone else suck it up just because you want to?
Fuck right off. You were willing to fight for your American freedom before now, what changed?

Wall Street is the enemy. That's not "whining"; it's fact. I have sympathy for your suffering, but even so, if you "don't blame Wall Street," I have no choice but to acknowledge it's self inflicted. Quit sucking it up and get over here and whine like a productive adult, you little bitch.

>>723068009

>you want your thousands of dollars

until you get cancer and it costs you hundreds of thousands which you don't have

funny fact though - a quick (and very unscientific) google informs me that on an average UK salary you pay about £1000/year for the NHS, and health insurance in the US usually costs about $4000. Go figure.

>>723065464

>wanting healthcare that works

There's a lot of money to be made from keeping people ill and in debt, it'd be terrible if we tried to make healthcare better for the people using it, profit margins would plummet!

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>That's the point. In the US the balance is gone, the power is purely in the hands of the corporations

That sounds really familiar. Oh because that's exactly what this guy said too. Oh and there were too many racists in the US so it was a good idea to move to Socialist Guyana.

Someone remind me how that turned out again?

kek

do you know what kwashiorkor is? a disease that causes children to dislike being touched. americans are so starved for affection, care, and love that they know hate anything which reminds them of love, like health care. we are lashing out at anything that could help us feel better, and are clinging irrationally to what harms us. there may be no cure.

>>723068447
>do you know what kwashiorkor is? a disease that causes children to dislike being touched.
dear diary
learned something new today: "kwashiorkor" is the nigger word for autism

>>723068447
wrong, kwashiorkor is the name for severe protein malnutrition

>>723067959
Rather than continue down our path of rapid capitalism, yes, I do.

>>723068788
Well I'm sorry -- and I mean that genuinely, because at this point you're probably right, that's what needs to be done -- but you can go fuck yourself with that shit. If subsistence is the only ethical way of life, I don't want to be ethical, and I don't think anyone else does, either. Humanity as a whole is better off with this way of life, even if the better-ness is distributed unfairly.

>>723068945
I'm a liberal in California and I agree, this is so fucking stupid why do they do this holy shit

On several occasions I've emailed the organizers of quasi-illegal liberal uprisings over Tor, being like "yo this is a waste of everyone's time, I agree with your cause but I can't in good faith support it if you're not seeing it through to the end, quit bitching in our home state with shitty little picket signs and let's all go bitch in Washington with firebombs"

>>723066156
You really don't understand the nuances to American health insurance. That's okay, because not even most Americans do. Most insurances, however, are willing to foot the bill entirely for preventative care, like check ups and flu shots because, surprise, it's cheaper to prevent something than treat it.
Now, I will agree with you that insurance here is ridiculous, and you can in part thank Obama for taking a baby half step and forcing everyone to get insurance. Entry level jobs refuse to do full time now to avoid paying insurance, insurance companies are racking up the cash because everyone HAS to be insured, etc.
I'm of the camp of thought where, if we're going to do socialized health care (even though the VHA is garbage and known garbage), then do it. If not, don't attempt it. These baby steps fuck over the end user more than both systems could alone.

>>723062251
I'm glad my tears were of service, I hear Trump will use them as lubricant to fuck all y'all who voted for him.

>>723057213
>can spend billions upon billions on war and maintenance but not on anything that will actually benefit you the people in an active way
It's like you Americans intentionally fuck yourselves over. Is it any wonder the state of the government and corporate elite?

>>723062758
>>723065959
rekt.

>>723069241
:I
Your liberal tears were delicious, but they stopped being funny when you started crying napalm.

Hope you get arrested you sick fuck

>>723064605

why are you on /b/

that's depressing

>>723069383
To be fair, military budget isn't a lot of our GDP, considering we also act as a military for a lot of the world. That is one thing Trump was right about: we maintain military presence in a lot of nations through agreements where, if they're attacked, we support. That let's them focus on things like healthcare and social programs because they aren't a hugely strong military.
Everyone bitches about American imperialism until Russia annexes your country and fuels a civil war or China starts moving ships closer to your islands, then big ol mean America should step in and help.

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>>723069241

>>723067282
This is the problem with communism: either you have a leader and it's unethical, or you're smart enough not to want to have a leader, as you propose here, and then it just doesn't happen, because someone's always going to be greedy.

Capitalism is better because if you teach EVERYONE to be greedy, then you wind up with equality anyway, without even needing your "universal agreement to leave business out of it"

>>723069769
computer engineering degree *

Everyone pays the tax so that you're not fucked if you need healthcare someday. Of course if you don't, spending money on something you don't need might not seem like a good option, but I really don't understand what everyone is bitching about. You're paying so that the people that need it aren't instantly fucked.

This doesn't apply to people who are not poor and can afford healthcare and also lose more paying the taxes, but if you were poor you'd appreciate financial help.

Shave discretionary defense budget by 6%, mandatory by 28%. Voila, you have 3x the health allocated budget as compared to Canada and France combined

>>723069900
>You're paying so that the people that need it aren't instantly fucked.
>This doesn't apply to people who are not poor and can afford healthcare and also lose more paying the taxes, but if you were poor you'd appreciate financial help.
You're missing the point that we wouldn't be poor.
You're missing THE MAIN point here, which is that poverty is always, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, a consequence of bad decisions, and we, who have made GOOD decisions, shouldn't have to pay for other people's bad decisions.

reducing tax evasion and the military budget =Free healthcare and education for all americans.

>>723069800

Not equality. There is no equality among human beings. This is why socialism and communism fails.

There's definitely no equality in capitalism because human beings are not equal. Me and the other smart people will always be well of financially and health-wise.

The not-so-smart will always end up being liberal arts majors and liberals.

>>723070123
Explain this.
>>723069830

>>723070276

There are always outliers. Also, you're probably lying.

It's possible you're not lying and you actually are smart enough to operate on my level. But you feel guilt for your innate advantages for some reason. Probably a bad upbringing.

Also, someone who's an expert in a high-value field can still be completely inept in terms of economics.

Einstein revolutionized our understanding of the universe but he was also a proponent of socialism. This shows that you can be one of the most profound thinkers in human history and still be completely wrong about certain things like economics and society in general.

>>723062627
you say that but in terms of this debate, you can have public and private healthcare at the same time, in fact you have more options. the only option you no longer have is getting dicked over for healthcare you can't afford.

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It's ironic these idiot liberal college kids advocating for "punching nazis" couldn't be more backwards if they tried.

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>>723070086

>on /b/

>made good decisions

>>723068141
I work as a surveyor and my wife is a doctor. We have a combined income of about £120,000.

I am the OP, moron. Just because you have a reasonable income it doesn't mean you have to be against universal healthcare.

>>723070123
Capitalism is a stepping stone, and is not the ideal system for post-industrial nations. The US is in a unique situation, with less regulations and less tax revenue generations from the top industries. Socialism would not work with the current tax pyramid. It would also not work with the educational system in its current state. Progressive, sustainable alternatives to our system are still on the fringe side of public universities. Capitalism does work in these conditions, though. As long as people keep showing up to work all week and going shopping on the weekends, it works.

>>723068176
or dictatorships

>>723070357
As a feminist, piss off, no self respecting feminist actually believes all men are pigs.

Inb4 "no true feminist": it's not a no-true-Scotsman fallacy if you have no desire to have it both ways. The source of the fallacy is trying to define a demographic primarily as its de facto definition (e.g. a Christian is a person of the Christian faith) but also be able to establish exceptions at will (e.g. yes, this guy who is technically a Christian did indeed feel lust, but no TRUE Christian would do such a thing). It's a fallacy because it allows you to declare a rule of inference about a subset of some demographic (e.g. no TRUE Christian would suffer himself to experience lust) and then erroneously apply it to the larger demographic without loss of generality (e.g. because no true Christian feels lust, the church event shall cut costs by renting only a single bedroom and a very large bed, as this is unlikely to cause any Christian person psychological discomfort).

So, saying that no true feminist would declare that all men are pigs isn't a no-true-Scotsman fallacy because I *don't* want it both ways. I want it one way. This way. NOT the other way. Anyone who calls herself a feminist but hates men isn't just not a true feminist, SHE IS NOT A FEMINIST. And if she says otherwise, she's simply wrong.

>>723057017
because its cheaper and a more effecient system, americans wouldnt have a problem with that other than being a little salty for their over priced insurance. the reason the media, both left and right wing corporations, is that insurance companies can spend so much of their profits (like 5% of american GDP) on lobbying / advertising until any positive discourse about the NHS goes away

>>723070086
Yes, that's true in a society were the are no outside influences and your wealth is solely based on your decisions

Too bad that's not the case. After ww2 European countries needed to rebuild and socialist policies were the solution. You can't blame those people for losing everything after a war like that.
Hell even the US needed a little bit of socialism after the great depression.

Just because life is easier now doesn't mean it'll stay that way, from the looks of it things will change real soon.

People keep saying socialism has done nothing but fail, yet they are completely unaware of canadas existence. The LCBO and healthcare system are both doing wonders for the country. The LCBO is like a luxury tax they get to collect two or three times.

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>>723071293
>I'm a feminist
>I speak for all feminists
>Anyone who thinks different just isn't a real feminist

>No True Scotsman

>>723071578
Why do you keep posting Nigel Farage? Even that frog faced fuckwit doesn't dare suggest abolishing the NHS, in fact he blames all its problems on the EU.

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Diabetic fag here, not fake type 2 either, the real one.

I would be dead if not for the NHS, in a period where I was out of work I continued to receive insulin/testers etc. at no cost to myself.

Now im paying back into the NHS through taxes, but im glad it was there when it was.

In America I either would have:
>died
or
>socially outcast for using social healthcare

But /pol/ has turned this site into a right wing dick sucking contest, so this might even be a troll thread.

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>>723071698
>implying most of the UK's problems aren't a result of being part of the EU

>>723071578
Not just not a real feminist, but altogether not a feminist. And yes, I do speak for all feminists, because "feminists" isn't just a peer group you can join or leave, it's a word with an ACTUAL DEFINITION, and an ACTUAL, FORMALLY STRUCTURED HISTORY behind it. I mean look, if you were born in Scotland and you don't drink, you're certainly free to call yourself a Scotsman no matter what anyone else might think of that claim, but you can't just fucking call yourself a Scotsman if you were born in Switzerland, have lived there your whole life, and have no Scottish heritage or connections. You can't just call yourself a mathematician if you can't evaluate the expression 1+1. And, all the same, you can't just call yourself a feminist if you don't know the first thing about feminism -- because it is, in fact, a formally established ideology, that you have to actually *know* about, and can't just redefine as you please.

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>>723071104

>>723057017
Frenchfag here. I just love our healthcare system. Indeed I do pay taxes but I'm cured for free when I've a health problem, so that I know I won't be left to die even if someday I get some serious rare shit.

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>>723057017
>Americans
only conservatives, and they're a dying minority that survives by gerrymandering the country.

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>No True Scotsman fallacy (pt. II)

I don't want my tax dollars to go to stupid stuff like say, keeping other tax payers alive and healthy! I want it to go for stuff we really need- like bulldozing neighborhoods to build useless airport expansions, walls with Mexico that Mexico was supposedly going to pay for but oh well, nuclear weapons, a gigantic military so we can hang out in Afghanistan for 15 years for some reason, and a Navy with cutting edge state-of-the-art brand new ships that break down every other month-
I mean the list goes on and on.

>>723071838
>so this might even be a troll thread

I suppose in a manner of speaking it is a troll thread as I knew it would end up as an anti-socialist MURICA FUCK YEAH shitstorm, but at the same time I do strongly support the NHS and I think that the arguments against free healthcare can always be summed up as purely greed-driven or simply ignorant (but either way hilariously cretinous).

I'm glad that you received the treatment you needed. As a chronic asthmatic I'd hate to think what my bill would have amounted to over the years under a private system.

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>>723072461
>More Whining
>No Actual Education

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-09-08/why-democrats-can-t-blame-gerrymandering

you chuckleheads will make up literally any fairy tale in your head to avoid admitting you're just wrong and you're ideology doesn't align with the average American. People are leaving the democratic party in droves and for good reason, they're batshit crazy.

http://thetab.com/us/2016/08/03/democrats-are-leaving-their-party-in-droves-to-vote-green-43153

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?75463-African-Americans-leaving-Democratic-party-in-droves

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/11/democrats_can_t_win_white_working_class_voters_the_party_is_too_closely.html

Liberalism is dead.

>>723071838
>But /pol/ has turned this site into a right wing dick sucking contest
Well, now that you mention it...

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>>723072969
Conservatives are so unpopular that a party outsider with no public experience beat every single candidate they could put forward and then became the least popular President in history.