Cool

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>>722799107

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>>722799107

This pleases me. Absolutely Halal.

Maybe they're Muslim. Islam is a religion, not an ethnicity.

>>722799107

Cool cultural destruction there, Ahmed. Wanna bring it to the White House?

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How is that any different from this?

>>722801068
their faces aren't pressed against a dirty carpet with their asses in the air.

>>722799107
>>722801068
One side is winning, one is losing badly,

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>>722801199
no difference faggot, its still brainwash

>>722801068

The flag they're pledging allegiance to has never fucked a nine year old.

>>722799107
Has to be a field trip by one of those Quaker schools

>>722801306
Neither did God? Muslims don't pledge their allegiance to Muhammad.

And regardless, most of the founding fathers raped their slaves routinely. They weren't exactly saints.

>>722800867
>maybe they're muslim
do the girls look like rag heads to you?

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>>722801306
Prove it.

>>722801468
True

>>722800867
The girls would be in the back, then

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>>722801297
no you dumbass islam is for subhumans. christianity at least has better moral standards which isnt a bad influence

>>722801297
its also a pledge to a country not a religion

>>722801861
What's the difference?

>>722801458

Pledging allegiance to the flag is not pledging allegiance to god.

>Muslims don't pledge their allegiance to Muhammad.

Are you fucking serious right now?

>founding fathers raped their slaves routinely.

Muhammad raped his nine year old wife. Way more fucked up than fucking slaves.

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>>722801780
>religion for moral standards
top zozzle anon, sure...

>>722801960
implying people don't do this if they're atheist or haven't done this centuries before either religion ever existed. Stop being retarded, anon.

>>722801960
>Pledging allegiance to the flag is not pledging allegiance to god
What's the difference? And regardless, how do you know they're pledging allegiance to God? Looks like they're just prostrated to me.

>Are you fucking serious right now?
Yes. Muhammad is a prophet. Muslims submit to God, not to Muhammad.

>Muhammad raped his nine year old wife. Way more fucked up than fucking slaves.
Not really; owning slaves is bad enough, raping them is abhorrent. Can you link me a contemporaneous source that states that Aisha's marriage was consummated at the age of nine?

>>722801960
>Pledging allegiance to the flag is not pledging allegiance to god.
>One nation, under God...

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>>722802197
"only the other religion kills people, people that follow my shit book from thousands of years ago are all righteous"

Most people born into a religion continue it through their life. Eyes closed shut motherfuckers the world over.

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[spoiler]Christianity is better.[/spoiler]

>>722801780
lol, shows what you know about Christianity.

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>>722801068
Where to begin.
1. The flag is a representation of freedom for ones self. Though we are held down at times by our own rules, we still have much more liberties than muslims/islam.
2. We, as a nation, are not wanting the deaths of those who do not think our way. We may not approve of many cultures around the world, such as in the middle east, we still will not go and destroy their nations. (Please retort for this, I already have a response).
3. Read the Koran, that shit is crazy.
4. Many women here enjoy their freedoms. Women supporting sharia law in the united states is equivalent to chicken supporting KFC.
5. Their teachings and cultures are crimes against humanity. Killing a raped women for not fending off her rapist, throwing gays off buildings, female mutilations, forced marriages, underage marriages, sexual abuse of children, cutting off limbs for low tier crimes, etc.
Need anymore?
I welcome and bring encourage all responses with a counter argument.

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>>722802818
in a nutshell, this

bitch you're a <insert religion> because you were born in <insert region of the world>. if you were born anywhere else, your set of belief would have been totally different and you would still swear it's THE right religion

massive bullshit overall

Islam is the final religion. Muhammad(PBOH) is Allah's prophet. All others are pretenders. Allahuh Akbar. I can't wait till Sweden's new language is arabic.

>>722803174
>We still will not go and destroy their nations

You talkin about the same America I know and love, anon? Last I checked we kicked the ass of every sideways lookin sand nigger we can find an excuse to beat to shit. Fuck, we made up that high powered weapons existed in a place where they eat sleep for dinner, just so we could test out drones and let the next generation knock some heads together. The only thing that brings this country together is finding someone new to hate.

>>722802249

What are you talking about?

>>722802481

They're praying to Mecca. Why Mecca? That is where Muhammad was born and revealed his "prophecies."

>Muslims submit to God, not Muhammad

Their religious law is based around the behaviour and life of Muhammad. Furthermore, as I stated above, they pray in the direction of Mecca, where Muhammad lived.

>Requesting contemporaneous source

No, I can't. Just as I don't have a contemporaneous source that Jesus existed. Modern scholarship will have to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

>>722802805

"I pledge allegiance to the flag"

What your perspective wants to infer from that is up to you.

>>722799107
The education department should not be able to organize events which include participating in religious activities. However, I believe the photo is from Sweden - a country notorious for its social democratic retardation. Those poor Scandinavian children are lost.

>>722803401
javla sandneger

YOU HAVE BEEN VISITED BY THE ISLAMIC TRUCK OF TOLERANCE

______________¶___
|religion of peace ||l “”|””\__,_
|______________|||__|__|__|]
(@)@)*********(@)(@)**(@)

POST THIS IN ANOTHER THREAD OR THE PEACE TRUCK WILL NEVER COME TO YOUR COUNTRY!

>>722803644
Rape isn't new, people being shitty isn't new. We've literally been seeing this since the dawn of our species.It isn't the goddamn religion, it's us. It's people. Because you've find the similar fucked up shit in all religions.

>>722803174
The flag is a representation of the state, which has committed atrocities the same as what has been done in the name of Islam.

>We, as a nation, are not wanting the deaths of those who do not think our way.
Really? Bombing the shit out of countries to bring the democracy seems to fit the bill. And Islam has never been about "destroying nations"; the early Muslim conquests generally left cities intact and civilians unharmed. They were even allowed to retain their culture, language and religion for the most part.

>Read the Koran, that shit is crazy.
I have read the Qu'ran, many, many times. However, I can say for a fact that you haven't , because no one who has ever read it would recommend someone to read it. There is nothing in the Qu'ran any more "crazy" than what is in many other religious texts.

>>722803644
>They're praying to Mecca. Why Mecca? That is where Muhammad was born and revealed his "prophecies."
They pray to Mecca because that's where the Kaaba is, not because that's where Muhammad was born. Regardless, many Surahs in the Qu'ran are from Medina, not Mecca.

>Their religious law is based around the behaviour and life of Muhammad
What does that have to do with "pledging allegiance to Muhammad"? You're moving the goal posts; we're not talking about Sharia law.

>No, I can't. Modern scholarship will have to do.
Modern scholarship regarding Aisha is contentious; even the article you listed has several scholars disputing Aisha's age. You are treating the story of their marriage as if it were a historical fact, which is nonsense.

>>722803588
Who is it "cool to hate" right now in America? What class of people can anyone publicly insult and hate-on with no social stigma, aside from roasting white people? Go check reality. I fucking double dog dare you to go stand on a street corner holding a "I hate muslims" sign.

>>722804458

I understand your point, but the fact is that most other religions - some older than Islam, some younger - they have all began to adapt to the modern world. Islam in the last forty years has reverted back to its primitive origins.

Modern Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, etc. have found a way to follow the good tenets of their religions while still functioning in the modern world. Muslims have struggled with that. And no, most Muslims don't support suicide bombing and killing infidels...but they seem to have a hell of a time disavowing it.

>>722803588
Hm I should of reworded my 2.
We as a nation was referring more to we as a people. I agree, as a nation, yes, we have falsified informations to get the nation riled up for a reason to invade. Yes we have bombed them into more pieces than their suicide bombers ever have. Yes, we gave them weapons through proxies that have formed terrorist groups.

Was going to use my retort saying the majority of the people doesnt want to do anything with the middle east until we fix our own problem. That those we elect, those who hide information, those media outlets who wont tell us the whole story are the ones driving the factor. Hence our division in the war in iraq, and the middle east in general. That would of been my response. If we knew the story, we wouldnt want anything to do with the middle east. I fucked up on my wording.

We dont come together when we hate something, we have been together as a people for many rough times in our recent history. The depression, the droughts, the homelessness, the rising in crime in poverty stricken cities, illegal drugs, gangs, and policies that dont favor the american people.
>The only thing that brings this country together is finding someone new to hate.
The only thing that brings this country together is times when the people are in need of one another. Go outside and look around your cities, look at how many people will donate their money, offer their time, give their belongings to other less fortunate.

>>722799107
This has to be england

>>722799107
Filthy carpet munchers

>>722804981
>Was going to use my retort saying the majority of the people doesnt want to do anything with the middle east until we fix our own problem.
How do you fix our security problem without having something to do with the Middle East you fucking moron?

Also, source?

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>>722799107

>>722804628
I'll get high fives in my small town with a population of 7k people. I'll do that if you pay me.

>>722799107
roll

>>722799107
Goddammit, Sweden! You fucked up! Soon we'll have another country that needs to be bombed.

>>722804628
If I did, I can guarantee you that for everyone one person complaining about me on facebook, there would be at least 2 rednecks in MAGA hats that come and join me.

All these Swedish children need to have their pale bottoms bared and spanked to a rosy glow for participating in a foreign religious custom.

>>722799107
yes good, they are being accepting.. look at the teachers smiling. They are aiding the children in accepting all religions, becoming familiar with them and they will all suck the antichrist dick when it is a hunaitarian and liberal making them all happy and joyful and accepting of eachother and every single religion

>>722799712
You know what to do.

>>722804605

Muhammad is the source of their religion. Without Muhammad, there is no Islam. The Kaaba actually predates Islam as a holy sight, so to imply that they are independently facing that direction just for God is disingenuous. You're downplaying the role of Muhammad.

>what does that have to do with pledging allegiance to Muhammad?

Muhammad is the source and core of their religious code, beliefs, and traditions. Muhammad is a sacred figure and cannot even be depicted, so don't act like he's just a bystander to the development of Islam.

>treating their marriage as a historical fact

Yes, because it is widely accepted as a historical fact. Her age at the time of marriage, and at the time of consummation, has a range of 2-3 years, yes, but it is widely accepted that she was a young girl in both instances.

The fact that historians and scholars have differing interpretation of the primary sources is common to all of history before 20th century. That is not enough to cast reasonable doubt on the entire marriage/relationship.

You are, of course, welcome to share some compelling evidence that overrules or disproves the existing historical record.

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>>722799107
tolerant

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>>722805769
>historical fact
>existing historical record
how much of a fucking retard are you? the oldest source regarding her age was written like 250 years after muhammad. calling that a "historical fact" is ridiculous and tells me you've never taken a history class in your life

>>722804605
Oh please enlighten me and what atrocities this nation has committed and i will counter it with cold hard facts of what good our nations has done.
>we as a nation
>>722804981
Never have i stated it isnt like other religious text, i have stated it is insane for the koran to state to kill gays, stone women who committed infidelity, allow the rape of their captives, kill hypocrites of their religion, keep killing until you get killed, put terror into the heart of those who dont follow the word of the koran. I read it, why i stated its fucking lunatic. Ill take the parts only stating to take care of ones health and to not do any atrocities for it does more harm than, The book contradicts itself several times about god is merciful yet demands the deaths of those who break his idiotic rules.

>>722805494
I really do feel bad for Europe. They won't be taken down through violence or intimidation. They're going to be taken down by breeding. So, it's cool that they take in refugees and truly want to help people, but their own kindness and compassion will bring about the death of their culture. It's like a slow and steady plague that nobody realizes is there until it's too late.

>>722806112

I've taken a dozen history courses in my life, but none related to the history of Islam.

But since you're claiming that her age and her relationship with Muhammad is false, tell me how old she WAS. And provide a compelling source, please.

How old was Aisha when she was married to Muhammad? How old was she when the marriage was consummated?

>>722801068
why are all the black kids are in the back

>>722805494

I wonder if the male students gangbang the teacher when she gives them after school lessons at her house.

>>722805958
these people are so sick in the head

>>722801306
That flag also enslaved entire races

>>722801068

Because it's the sand nigger version and comes with more allegiance and potential violence.

>>722799107
Meh. I'm OK with it. It's the no more offensive to me than forcing atheist kids to say "Under God" in the pledge, or those fucking awful school prayers we had to do when I was a kid. We also don't have any context for what's happening here, so it could just be the mosque showing a group of kids how they pray for a field trip or something. It's only threatening and scary if you are just knee jerk afraid of Islamic culture.

>>722799107
Son, this makes me furious

>>722805769
>Muhammad is the source of their religion. Without Muhammad, there is no Islam.
Okay.

>The Kaaba actually predates Islam as a holy sight, so to imply that they are independently facing that direction just for God is disingenuous.
Are you just rambling now? They face Mecca because that's where the Kaaba is; it it was revealed to Muhammad that they should face the Kaaba when they pray. That's the reason. It isn't because it was his birthplace.

>You're downplaying the role of Muhammad.
I'm not downplaying anything, all I said was that they don't "pledge allegiance" to him. You're the one who has been spouting random bullshit ever sense.

>Muhammad cannot even be depicted
Untrue. That isn't a hard rule.

>because it is widely accepted as a historical fact
By Muslims citing hadith written nearly 300 years after the marriage actually happened, not by historians.

>the existing historical record.
You mean religious myth?

>>722806246
Is that really different than early America?

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>>722799107
Bury your idols muslims, POTUS and the USA WILL RULE

>>722806444
Every single powerful society has enslaved entire races. It's human nature, not US nature. Doesn't make it right, but no culture can point the finger at another one in that regard.

>>722799107
Seems like a field trip in which they are learning about the Islamic culture. I see no problems with education.

>>722806444

The flag did that?

>>722805769
the caaba and all religions can go fuck themselves same with scientology they belive we are a prison planet and the moon is somehow a machine that recycles souls back onto this planet when you die and the elite are ruled by interdimensional entities and that the large hadron collider is being used to make their connection stronger. Bloody batshit insane if you ask me

>>722806246
have you ever taken a course in logic and how not to argue a strawman? because that's all you've been doing for a dozen posts. no one knows how old she was, and some old fuck writing hundreds of years after the events in question is not a source.

might as well say jesus murdering a group of children is a HISTORICAL FACT because it's in the infancy gospel of thomas

>>722806756
yeah...and youre pretty retarded to think otherwise

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>>722806246
>I've taken a dozen history courses in my life
You've taken a dozen history courses and you think that someone recounting the age of a girl when she was married 250 years ago makes it a historical fact? Must not haven payed very close attention on how to vet sources

>>722806753

>They face Mecca because that's where the Kaaba is; it it was revealed to Muhammad that they should face the Kaaba when they pray

Fine. I concede that point. But Muhammad is a revered figure in Islam and is essentially the role-model for how Muslims are supposed to live.

>That isn't a hard rule.

Oh, it's a soft rule? Like Danish cartoonists and Charlie Hebdo broke a soft rule?

>hadith written way after the marriage happened

Okay, so provide a compelling contrary source! If you have a genuine disagreement with the widely accepted historical fact, provide something in the way of evidence. That should be easy to do! C'mon!

>you mean religious myth

What, so now you don't believe anything written about religions can be true if it wasn't written at the same time as the prophets lived? You've got a lot of "this is not true" and "that is false," but not a lot of "this is actually the truth," and "this is the source."

>>722805769
>The Kaaba actually predates Islam
I would like to see some citations for this please. I am curious as to what it was before Islam culturally appropriated it.

>>722806487
yes because Christian's never fought any wars or killed/raped any children

>>722801068
IT'S BETTER ACTUALLY. AT LEAST THEY'RE ALL WHITE

>>722807478
>the widely accepted historical fact
You keep saying this even though it isn't true. Her age isn't a widely accepted historical fact, it's a frequently debated myth without any hard evidence.

>>722799107
. What other religion has this many proxy soldiers in todays age? Muslim religion is so easily used by nations.

>>722807600
Christianity has lost its touch

>>722807378

By your premise, all history that isn't a first-hand account is false.

Come the fuck on! I can tell you aren't a history student because the standards you're applying are literally impossible to apply to academic history.

>>722807480
It was a pagan shrine and the site of the hajj, allegedly connected to Abraham.

>>722807478
>Oh, it's a soft rule? Like Danish cartoonists and Charlie Hebdo broke a soft rule?
It isn't a rule at all. Some Muslim groups find it to be disrespectful or blasphemous, but it isn't universally agreed upon.

>>722807589

How old was Aisha at the time of marriage, and at the time of consummation?

This is a simple question. Stop evading.

>>722807845

>it isn't universally agreed upon

NOTHING IS UNIVERSALLY AGREED UPON ABOUT ANYTHING. That is NOT a sufficient defense.

>>722807734
Where did I say it was false you illiterate ape? All I said was that it wasn't a fact.

>your premise, all history that isn't a first-hand account is false
Complete nonsense non-sequitur

>>722807870
It's a simple strawman you cuck. No one knows how old she was because there are no reliable sources stating her age which is why it has been DEBATED for 1400 years.

>>722807979
You said he "cannot be depicted". He has been depicted, by Muslims in the Muslim world, even in modern times, without punishment.

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>>722807870
>make up the answer to a question
>well if you can't make up a competing fantasy, my bullshit is 100% correct!
stay in school kids

>>722806444
That flag has only existed since the 1960s you stupid cunt

>>722807565
Christianity has nothing to do with this argument.

>>722806257
they're not.

>>722807870
>>722807478
>>722805769
There are sources that say nine, ten, twelve, thirteen, seventeen, or nineteen. Other estimates say that she may have been even older. I have no idea which one is correct, but treating "nine" as if it is a cold hard fact with an abundance of evidence behind it is stupid as fuck.

>>722807996

>All I said was it wasn't a fact.

The argument you're making consists solely of casting doubt on historical beliefs. You provide no counter evidence, no source that suggests that why what many historians state is true, is actually false, and no elaboration on why you believe she wasn't a minor.

What makes you think she was an adult? What makes you think she wasn't a child? What is informing your opinion that Aisha was not a child at the time of consummation?

For you to hide behind, "It's not a 100%, universally accepted fact, that she was nine or ten years old, therefore you're full of shit!" is cowardly and disingenuous.

>it's a strawman

No. A strawman is when you misrepresent someone position, and debunk the misrepresentation. However, I am the one who made the claim that Aisha was a child at the time of consummation. I made the argument. I stated my position. You have called me uninformed without providing a single contrary source. So where is the strawman?

>>722808095

He has been famously depicted, and the people who depicted him in the western world were either killed or threatened with violence. Why did this happen? Was it because there is no hadith about depicting Muhammad? Was it because radical Muslims believe he SHOULD be depicted? Please explain.

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>>722799107

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>>722799107

>>722808850
stop wasting bacon you terrorist cunt

>>722808810
>you provide no counter evidence
Why don't you read the wikipedia article you linked that cites several different sources saying several different ages?

>>722808519

I said there was a 2-3 year range, but that in all instances, she was a child.

Here are my sources:

http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

>The majority of traditional hadith sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six or seven, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, or ten according to Ibn Hisham, when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina.

Where are yours?

>>722809426
Will you two just kiss already?

>>722809517
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
Isn't it awkward when your own source argues against your point?

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>>722799107

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>>722799107
tttttt

It was a Dutch Christian school in Holland that took its kids to a mosque to show that not everyone believes the same things they do.

How is this a bad thing? Introducing multiple mutually exclusive religions to kids forces them to ask question.

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>>722799107
fuckcatchgoddammit

>>722809657

The oldest sources discussed in that article put her between 9 and 12. So instead of hiding under the umbrella of "historians debate the fact," how about you elaborate on why you believe she wasn't a child when she was married?

Seriously, dude. I don't want to go in circles. I have two ancient sources saying she was no older than twelve and you have one modern source saying she was "between 15 and 19." Tell me why you believe the modern source over the ancient source?

>>722801068
Separation of church and state. These is literally an example of church vs. state.

Congrats, you're retarded enough to say that God and country are the same thing.

>>722809905
Taking them to a mosque and having them participate in ritual are different.

>>722809517
https://books.google.com/books?id=od6dAQKgK-YC&pg=PT150&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

>she could not have been less than ten years at the time of her marriage with the holy prophet
>the popular account that she was six years at marriage and nine years at the time of consummation is decidedly not correct
Regardless, off yourself for doing zero research on the topic before you started running your mouth. People have been debating this shit for over a millennia and you call your claim a HISTORICAL FACT because you read one source of questionable authenticity stating as such. You're a fucking moron

>>722799107
this triggers the /pol/

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>>722799107
remember iran before 70's ?

yall werent wearing robes crawling in rubble then ....

wtf you 3rd world retards?

Either way, Aisha would have been smooth.

>>722801918
Countries have borders. Ideas and religions don't.

>>722810146
>ancient source
What does this even mean? It isn't contemporaneous; it isn't more accurate simply because it's older. You have the dumbest fucking misconceptions about historiography that I've ever seen.

>Tell me why you believe the modern source over the ancient source
I necessarily don't believe either as I've said MANY times. You should try actually reading the explicit meaning in sentences instead of inventing bullshit to argue against.

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>>722799107
pppppppppppppp

>>722810217
It's time that you two gave it up. Neither one of you are going to win this argument and you're killing the potential comedy.

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>>722799107
praise allah .... lol

>>722805958
This can't be real.

>>722810146
>hiding under the umbrella of "historians debate the fact"
that literally has always been the argument though dumbass, that it isn't a fact. this isn't about your opinion on her age. it's honestly fucking hilarious that you think old sand nigger myths are real stories. i guess muhammad actually ascended to heaven during his night journey too huh? and jesus really did kill a child when he was one years old

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infancy_Gospel_of_Thomas

look someone wrote 200 years after jesus's death that he was a murderer! guess it's a fact

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>>722799107

>>722810146
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources

>Especially in scientific and academic fields, older sources may be inaccurate because new information has been brought to light, new theories proposed, or vocabulary changed. In areas like politics or fashion, laws or trends may make older claims incorrect. Be sure to check that older sources have not been superseded, especially if it is likely the new discoveries or developments have occurred in the last few years.

>With regard to historical events, older reports (closer to the event, but not too close such that they are prone to the errors of breaking news) tend to have the most detail, and are less likely to have errors introduced by repeated copying and summarizing. However, newer secondary and tertiary sources may have done a better job of collecting more reports from primary sources and resolving conflicts, applying modern knowledge to correctly explain things that older sources could not have, or remaining free of bias that might affect sources written while any conflicts described were still active or strongly felt.

>baby's first time analyzing a source

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>>722799107

murders the staff.... takes children to ... re - educate

>>722810148
>Separation of church and state

Separation of church and state is a difficult issue that is widely interpreted. The literal definition regarding such in the Constitution is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Never is it said that it cannot occur, just that it cannot be a law mandated by the Federal government. However, via lawsuits and legalese throughout the years, many people believe nothing involving god (of any religion) can occur anywhere within a government-, or quasi-government-, funded institution.

>>722810607

Let's review:

I assert that the prophet of Islam fucked a nine year old.
You disagreed.
I quoted Aisha's wikipedia page, which states "According to Sunni scriptural Hadith sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was married to Muhammad with the marriage not being consummated until she had reached puberty at the age of nine or ten years old.[10][11][12][13][14][23][24][25] For example, Sahih al-Bukhari states that Aisha narratated that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years."
You assert that a lack of contemporaneous sources contradicts my belief, which isn't untrue, but also doesn't provide a contradiction.
My source quotes a hadith from around the 9th century. I call this an "ancient" source.
Your source, which is the wikipedia article outlining the debate around her age, uses modern speculation applied to the rules at the time. For example, it states that since people under 15 were generally not allowed to go on battles, Aisha must have been at least 15 in x year. This speculation, while not false, relies on a number of assumptions that aren't supported by any sources, and certainly none as robust as the 9th century hadith.

My problem is this. I made an assertion, and provided two sources. You disputed my source by saying modern historians don't all agree on the age.

Okay. So give me something more compelling than a 9th century hadith! Why is this such a difficult task? I mean, you, as a person, must for some reason believe that she was not a child at the time of consummation. So why don't you believe she was a child? Historians over the centuries have a range from 9 years old to 19. Why do you believe the 19 figure, but not the 9?

>>722801068
Being American is truly something to be proud of anon. I realize you're probably from some poor ass eurocuck country but,

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>>722801068
Just as abhorrent to force them into a culture that encourages obedience to the state. However, they are not as regressive as Islam, which I would say is the difference. One is better than the other even though both suck.

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>>722811382

>>722811382
>You disagreed.
Wrong.

>Why do you believe the 19 figure, but not the 9
Honest question, are you illiterate? Quote one post in this thread where someone said she was 19 years old

>>722811518
Russia has a lot of muslims?? Did NOT know that.

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>>722799107

>>722810892

The difference is that there are strong and multiple sources that Muhammad was a real person. His life is fairly well-documented for the era in which he lived. The same can not be said of Jesus.

For Jesus, the religious text is essentially all we have. That's not the case with Muhammad. Perhaps that's a consequence of when each person "existed," but historians and scholars work very hard to construct facts about people and events. The age of 9 didn't come out of thin air. And while I accept that there is some evidence that she may have been 12 or 15 or 19, these are based on assumptions that aren't self-evidently true.

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>>722811382
>Historians over the centuries have a range from 9 years old to 19
Great, so you can shut the fuck up now about your MUH HISTORICAL FACT shitposting?

>>722811629
Chechnya, which is technically Russia, is entirely Muslim.

>>722811642
As far as I know there was a person who had the name and was crucified. However, all the things the bible claims he did is just pure bullshit.

>>722811542

Why do you keep running away from making a statement of belief? You are happy to assert how old she WASN'T, but can't state how old you think she was. C'mon, dude. Don't play mental gymnastics.

>>722811642
There's just as much evidence for her being a teenager as there is for her being a child.

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>>722799107
Fight for allah

>>722811704
>>722811923

Are we having a debate, or are you just going to keep saying, "No history is universally accepted."

>>722811923
Because I'm not a complete retard that claims to know things that I couldn't possibly know, that are unsubstantiated and backed with very little evidence.

>>722811942

No, there isn't. 9th century writers assert that she was a child. Later sources, citing a rule about the age of people accompanying marauders, being 15. This relies on the assumption that Muhammad wouldn't have bent or broken the rule to bring his wife with him on his travels.

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>>722812052
back to that same old non-sequitur eh?

>aisha was 9 years old when muhammad fucked her
>actually there isn't a lot of reliable evidence stating her age at the time of marriage. she could have been older or even younger
>WELL I GUESS THAT MEANS THAT ALL HISTORY IS BULLSHIT AND NOTHING IS TRUE

>>722811642
Are you uneducated or just lying to support your argument? I'm not even religious and I can admit Jesus actually lived. Muslims believe in him. This is not an argument of the miracles or that bullshit, but the fact that he absolutely was a real person that lived. There is irrefutable evidence agreed upon by a consensus of scholars from numerous academic institutions that admit this is so. These are not theologians or even Christians that argue this point.

>In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman wrote, "He [Jesus] certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees".

>Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church's imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more".

>James D.G. Dunn calls the theories of Jesus' non-existence "a thoroughly dead thesis".

>Michael Grant (a classicist) wrote in 1977, "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary".

>Robert E. Van Voorst states that biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of non-existence of Jesus as effectively refuted.

>>722812265
>9th century writers assert that she was a child.
And how would they know?

>>722811518
Source of your stats please? I am curious.

>>722811382
The Old Testament has a talking donkey in it. Let's drop the bullshit about what these religons were, and instead get back to the real world where people who happen to have been born in places where thosr religons are a thing are also actual human beings who deserve respect. If you can't do that, then you're really just masking fear and racism in excuses. Again, talking donkey.

>>722812265
>9th century writers assert that she was a child
Writing about a marriage that took place in the early 7th century. They are literally citing muslim folk tales

>>722812473
Google is your friend. I'm not your research assistant.

>>722812090

No one's talking about knowing. You don't have to modify our conversation into a fundamental discussion of epistemology. We're talking about what we believe. I can only assume that you questioned my assertion because you're defensive about Muhammad being a potential child fucker. We've since been exploring what evidence there is for her being a child vs being a teenager/young adult. You haven't brought anything compelling to the table except to cast a vague and unspecific doubt on the trustworthiness of a number of sources. This is a good example of challenging my position, but does nothing to defend a contrary position.


How would you feel if you had claimed Trump was a fascist because he fights the media, has corporate interests, and lies to the public, and I had come back at you with, "But historians don't agree on the definition of fascism, so you don't know shit about fascism or Trump." ?

>>722812566
If you can't provide source then your 'facts' are shit.

You made the assertion now provide the evidence. Otherwise why should I bother?

>>722811642
>His life is fairly well-documented for the era in which he lived.
Uh, what? The only sources on his life are biographies and hadith that were written hundreds of years after his death. Unless you count the quran which contains almost no detail on his life

no idea why you think the gospels are not reliable accounts of jesus's life

***Different anon here, fyi***

Much of the Western discussion surrounding Aisha's age when the marriage was consummated seems to stem from the desire to 'sanitize' Islam for Western acceptance.

>>722812476
>The Old Testament has a talking donkey in it

Let's not take this out on donkeys. I fully believe that since biblical times, human interference in their breeding has bred out their ability to talk, and frankly, it pisses me off that we have been cheated.

>>722812380

Thank-you. So to put this in perspective, the strength of the evidence of Muhammad and many facts of his life are even stronger than what you just posted for the existence of Jesus.

So there you go. Why do you trust those sources? They weren't around when Jesus was around. How could they possibly know that Jesus existed?

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>>722812633
>illiterate sand niggers citing muslim folk tales with an incentive to lie and mythologize are much more reliable than modern historians comparing hundreds of sources and incorporating advanced knowledge of the time period into their theories
holy shit you're actually fucking retarded

>>722799107
All of those proud female teachers

>>722812680
Facts do not cease to exist because of your laziness. For instance, I don't want to go look out of the window so you cannot prove the sun exists.

>>722812814
Cool theory, except debates regarding her age have persisted since the 9th century, and many of the scholars who argue that she was a teenager are muslim

>>722812882
You weren't around in the 1940s, prove they existed.

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>>722799107
All of my wat.

>>722812882
>They weren't around when Jesus was around
Matthew, Mark, and Luke weren't around when Jesus was around? What?

>>722812691

>no idea why you think the gospels are not reliable accounts of jesus's life

Are you the same guy bringing up the talking donkey? Gospels, with the exception of Luke, were written by followers of Jesus. As much as they support Jesus' existence, they all include discussion of his alleged miracles, which obviously makes them dubious.

>>722813275

That's what I'm saying! He is dismissing the Sunni hadith source because it was written 250 years after Muhammad lived. I accused him of dismissing all of history except for primary sources. You missed that part of our exchange.

>>722812882
>earliest accounts of jesus written only a couple decades after his death
>earliest accounts of muhammad written centuries after his death

>>722813419
>which obviously makes them dubious
Literally no historian has or would ever question the historical value of a text simply because it has cosmological or supernatural significance. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about

>>722813352

The historians you quoted weren't around when Jesus was around.

>>722799107

This is gymnastics, not islamic prayer. Based on the clock, it's 11 in the morning, combine this with the angle of the light from the window, they are no facing Mecca, which is to the East.

Low effort troll. 0/10

>>722813028
for real. It's like women are obsessed with destroying western civilization

>>722813631
I didn't make that post you stupid fuck

>>722813629

So you're not the talking donkey guy?

What I'm saying is that the existence of Jesus is believed and evidenced, but what he did and the miracles he alleged performed aren't to be believed simply because three of his followers claimed that he was a saviour.

>>722813419
>they all include discussion of his alleged miracles
that's irrelevant if you're talking about their historical accuracy

>>722813687

Yet you responded to my response to that post?

I as a Jew have literally no problem with this. Next week it will be Buddhism

>>722812882
Those "sources" collectively hold 18 different degrees, all with Ph.Ds, and have attended and taught at some of the most prominent institutions of higher learning in the world including Princeton, Harvard, Oxford, and Cambridge to name a few. If you must dismiss brilliant, well-researched, peer-reviewed published scholars then I presume nothing for you is suffice.

>>722813769
>what he did and the miracles he alleged performed aren't to be believed simply because three of his followers claimed that he was a saviour
Yea no shit, no one is claiming that he was actually the son of god. You're the kind of strawmen it seems

>>722813856
Because you're being retarded. Those historians aren't claiming they knew jesus personally, they're coming to a conclusion based on accounts of jesus's life, anthropological evidence and references to him in other texts

>>722813825

>that's irrelevant if you're talking about their historical accuracy

How you serious? A little French girl writes about her seeing the virgin mary in the woods. Because she was there, we can't criticize the historical accuracy of her account?

>>722801918

Monstrous desert demons that demand insane shit from humans?

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How 'bout I fucking Meth-Punch all you faggots!?!?!?!??!!

>>722813605
My bad . . . I think we are arguing the same side and I misinterpreted what you were saying. We're cool. Thus, ignore my other post >>722813962

>>722813995
What a terrible analogy. The gospels are not less of a valid historical source because they contain alleged miracles. Those actual specific events might be in dispute, but that doesn't discredit the source like you were suggesting. Honestly you need to learn how to fucking read because this is the billionth time in this thread you've been incapable of understanding an argument or following a coherent line of thought

Yesterday my sister and her 3 friends were attacked by 5 rapefugees. Her 2 friends 1 a guy and the other a girl were useless and had their phones stolen.

My sister had a bottle of wine in her purse and she smashed it on one of their heads ( bottle didn't break unfortunately )
She then kicked another in the dick.

2 got away but the police got 3 of em and I've never been more proud in my life.

This happened in France and my sister is a 20 year old white American who does not put up with shit

>>722808191
lol I'm dumb as shit and he's fustrating me with his retarded-ness.

>>722813993

DUDE, LET'S REVIEW

You called into question the testimony of someone writing 250 years after Muhammad existed. Then you quoted historians writing about the veracity of Jesus's life 2000 years after he existed. So what's it gonna be? Either historians are capable of assessing ancient primary and secondary sources, or they aren't.

Pick one, because I'm tire of you tangling up my rhetorical questions as if they aren't rhetorical. You're the one who dismissed the Sunni hadith because it wasn't written when Muhammad lived. Neither were any modern histories of Jesus, yet they still hold water.

You're picking and choosing historical claims based on what you like and dislike.

>>722811422

USA is basically a 3rd world country for common people who make less than 100k a year.

This is a shithole and I'm leaving this country in a couple years.

>>722806388

They hate the weak races and worship the most violent and huge races, they are not insane, they just think "the bigger, the better", they are eugenicists afro-supremacists.

They consider the Negro super human and the pinnacle of evolution.

they are not sick.

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>>722799107
It's yoga, right? How are we sure it's Muslim prayer?

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>>722799107

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It's better than having to have our tax dollars support a religion.

>>722814216
>You called into question the testimony of someone writing 250 years after Muhammad existed
Yes.

>Then you quoted historians writing about the veracity of Jesus's life 2000 years after he existed.
No.

>Either historians are capable of assessing ancient primary and secondary sources, or they aren't.
They are. I'm not sure what any of the above has to do with that.

>Neither were any modern histories of Jesus
There is a chasm of difference between 30-40 years and 250 years. I never made a single post about Jesus anyways so fuck off.

>>722814157

I said like a hundred posts ago that the Sunni hadith, and all other historians who believe the 9-12 year old range, didn't pull the number out of thin air. They are assessing old sources, secondhand sources, and modern assessments of the period. That's how history works. What's frustrating is that you're throwing the gospels at me, and modern historians's assessments of them, while dismissing the hadith and modern historians's assessments of them.

You're having it both ways without conceding anything.

>>722813667
They are the easiest to manipulate.
>children don't like to be punished
Women: Ban spanking!
>some minority groups in our country feel unwelcome
Women: Make discrimination illegal
>i want to freely celebrate sticking my penis in another man's butt
Women: Campaign for the normalization of homosexuality and its promotion from the earliest age of education

The rise of women's 'rights' and participation in mainstream politics directly corresponds to the gradual decline of Western civilization; as they are a key factor in propaganda.

>>722813945
There's been a change of schedule. For you, next week is the oven.

>>722813995
We wouldn't criticize the 'historical accuracy' of a little girl's account because the criteria for authenticity is unrelated to the establishment of fact; more determining the possible scenario in which she would believe to have seen Mary.

If she was lying, we would then be compelled to go back in time, raise her skirt, lower her underwear and give her a good thrashing on her petite bottom.

>>722814247
my sides have never achieved orbit velocity faster

go ahead and leave now, you and whatever shit tier skills you possess wont be missed

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>>722814247
>topkek

What "country" are you leaving the USA for libtard ...California or Portland?

>>722814207
Good news for once! These vermin have no place in Europe. I would gladly buy her another bottle of wine.

>>722814385

Did you not make this post:
>>722812380

>>722803588
I have never missed america more. This post right here makes me miss the land of opportunities, the home of freedom

Bless you, anon

>>722799107
Heart breaking

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>>722814607

>>722814271
They ignore the circumstances under which the lesser negroid race has flourished; therefore incorrectly concluding supremacy.

>>722814733

Then fuck me. I don't know who I'm debating with about what.

>>722814736
>They ignore the circumstances under which the lesser negroid race has flourished

Never has such existed, unless you are exclusively referring to the NBA.

>>722812476
I like the story of gob (think it was gob, i was pretty high at the time) beat down 50 dudes on a mountain top with a donkey skull

>>722811752
That explains why my russian friends always drink to the downfall of Chechnya
>Not even joking

>Face-Down, Ass-Up

It's about time they started teaching kids the proper position.

>>722813128
>Facts do not cease to exist because of your laziness.

Absolutely.

>I don't want to go look out of the window so you cannot prove the sun exists.

I don't care about the Sun, I want to know where you obtained your data. One sentence, or a link is all you have to do. You're spending more time telling me to look myself than would have to validate your information.

Your argument is invalid.

>>722817056
That pic is actually a Catholic school. This is pre-sodomy class.

>>722817056

It's refreshing to see a true anon here these days. This election's gotten /b/ all PC and shit.

>>722817221
Of course, there was a lot of opposition to the idea of preparing kids for sodomy instead of letting it be a surprise.

Why teach them to relax and loosen up, when the blood acts as lube for a tightly clenched pooper?

>>722799107
my only problem with Op pic is that NO
moose lamb would go to a church and take communion yet we need to be the one with understanding

>>722813128
If I told you that I had a cup of pudding that would turn you invisible if you ate it, you would expect proof. Likewise, I expect proof for the information you provide.
More than likely, you just saved this from /pol/ and are using "hurr durr, you do the research!" as a bullshit argument to try to compensate for your laziness.
Fuck yourself, kill yourself, get the fuck off my /b/.

>>722814247
>my gender studies degree didn't get me any money, I blame society
cuck