Liberals of 4chan, what is it you actually believe? All I hear

If the media is controlled by corporate interests and the pedophile literati
and they hate this guy
does that mean I need to side with them?

>>722604302
liberals went to bed, only grownups online now.

>>722604302
meh. Vast majority of liberals that like to spout opinions (and therefore are the ones that get heard) are all about "Anti-this or that", with no clear alternative. As much as liberals hate trump, they don't have something else to offer America since Clinton got beat. It will be a year or two before they have anything to offer the US other than "Anti-Trump" rhetoric.

>>722604471
I would say that's a good reason not to side with them if what you say is true.

Hypothetically, if I were a liberal (not saying I am or am not), and professed to be against evil corporations then I would also have to assume that the media, like every other evil corporation, does not have my best interests in mind and could very well be feeding me lies. IF I was a liberal, and stuck to my professed belief system, then I would also be against MSM. Just my thoughts.

I fucking live Trump, but that's just because I'm a journalist and he gives me new material every single day.

>>722604302
I'm not American, and I really can care less about what's going on in your counrty, but didn't republicans reject some bill about crazies with guns? Something about them now being able to buy guns now?
If you ask me that's kinda retarded. I mean, letting a mentally ill person buy a gun, knowing that they're crazy enough to shoot up a public area for no reason? C'mon....
If your president is republican, and the people who voted for him are too, and they actually thought this was a good idea, then your country is gonna go down the drain very very soon.

>>722604302

yfw when you realize the two liberal bastions in the US are the cities in which people choose to live clustered together, over populated; therefore creating artificial scarcity of resource leading to the libs thinking socialist agendas and ideals are the correct direction of our country. To this end they construe race as a weapon and desperately try to wield it in any and all situations in order to inflate their cause with an artificial moral superiority which cannot be denounced without fear of being labeled all the things they accuse Trump and anyone who voted for him of.

This concludes your redpill about the left.

>>722604797
I dunno maybe put forth a presidential prospect that knows how to pump their own gas?
did you know most career politicians have forgotten how to drive because they live such cushy lives

>>722604914
The issue lies in the fact that the bill said anyone with any documented mental illness could not purchase a gun because they may act out. This paints everyone with a disability in a negative light and infringes on their rights as citizens.

>>722604914
The past election was very "Lesser of two evils" and was a giant pissing contest over who was the worse person, rather than who was actually better for the country. Crap election, crap setup, crap selection.

>>722604914
fuck you aint no fuckin doctor gunna tell me i no longer have a god given right to purchase and own arms. if im that crazy i should be in prison. more people die by hammers than guns so guns are not really an issue for crazies.

anyway that legislation was specifically made to target competent seniors whos finances were controlled by their children (was about those who did not manage their own finances NOT about crazy people - thats FAKE NEWS, bro).

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>>722604914
This is a conversation specifically about liberals.

Stop trying to derail the topic of conversation by bringing up obscure nonsense not related to my OP. You're not fooling anyone with your attempt at disinformation.

>>722605037

this. Have mental illness is not a criminal matter yet this bill would make it one by stripping a constitutional right. They couldn't pass this without taking a shit on the constitution.

>>722604914
Yes but then they can declare someone unfit and take away guns.
Let Americans have guns, Canada Has guns, even Australia has guns
Yes Gun free Australia lets you have hunting rifles and Gun licenses if you need it for work

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I consider myself to be a liberal because I recognize that capitalism in its current state is about to blow up. We need major economic reforms that end major problems traditionally seen as a given in society, like racism and poverty.

This is the way forward, a world where everyone can prosper and succeed.

>>722605163
Exactly my point. If anyone has any questions for an actual liberal, I can try my best to answer them to the best of my ability. I'm down for some civil discussion tonight.

>>722604999
I bow to your trips.

I dunno. Seems the current Dem party structure was based around an "Old Guard" person like Clinton or someone similar in, riding on Obama's coat tails. They have no idea how to function now that they have been beat. Getting someone reasonable/practical nominated by the dems wont happen until the current party structure and crew changes. Probably won't happen for at least another election.

>>722604302
I'm a socially liberal fiscal conservative gun owning mother fucker. I hate trump more than I hated Hillary. Everyone is a faggot but me.

>>722605275
So you don't have an actual position, you're just "anti-capitalist" like the other anon said.

Tell us what system you think has worked better historically in the past to support your ideology.

>>722605275
You fucking idiot, liberals are for a capitalist system.

>>722605278

How do you feel about several high profile libs coming out to say that if you still believe in traditional liberal ideals, then you actually lean conservative in todays political climate and should be embracing and finding comon ground with conservatives?

example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq86Beh3T70

>>722605445
I dunno the gulag archipelago seems pretty cool

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>>722605275
Help me understand this

Liberals are the ones crying that Trump is trying to dismantle obamacare without a 100% clear alternative, yet you just advocated for dismantling the entire backbone of the US (capitalism) with no clear alternative yourself.

How does that not make you a hypocrite?

>>722605445
It's just the natural transition, some people want to move away from capitalism faster than others.

>>722605445
When you want to improve society, at least for economic models, you don't choose one from the past. You can describe any position as anti-something. Pro life is just anti abortion. Everything has an opposite. Just semantics.

Now, hear me out. I really don't care about social issues as much, but you can see how economic adversity is bad for democracies. These inequalities in society lead only to conflict and clog up the works of our system. Capitalism does not have the proper rewards system that we need to move forwards, it does not promote the kind of long term investment that we need.

>>722605275

America is about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. There is no racism in capitalism. we also have the best income mobility in the world.

>>722604302
I'm a liberal and I love Donald Trump, so far.

However...

I believe that if we refuse to eliminate the corrupt inheritance system and oligopoly rent-seeking, the best solution for the economy to counter-balance corrupt inequality sources is to turn to socialistic programs such as nationalized healthcare and college education.

I would prefer that we stick to a more pure capitalism, but that is not in the best interest of the super-wealthy. They want to kick down the ladder of capitalism with corporate socialism. We might as well respond with populist socialism, in that case.

>>722605149
Hillbilly.exe

>>722605603
>It's just the natural transition
lol what?

in case you missed it the first world runs on capitalism, what exactly are we transitioning to? a 3rd world shit hole?

>>722605549
Given how several of my right-wing friends have acquired the "its commie/leftist, kill it with fire" mindset, you might have trouble finding common ground. People seem to hate politics and thoughts based on the label, rather than the content.

>>722605640

which is what exactly? What specific policy do you advocate?

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>>722605278
Why did you post in my thread while clearly disregarding my OP? It was literal questions you just ignored and pretended didn't exist.

>>722605641
>America is about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.
>what is affirmative action, what are tax brackets, etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlaCdVercCg&t=0s

>>722604302
Both parties must be teared in pieces and rebuilt from the ground up.
And having someone like trump to demolish the republicans is a good start.

>>722605549
The more these people try to create a divide, the worse the system will become. I try to find common ground with anyone I discuss politics with so as to establish a relationship that isn't based on disdain for each other's ideals. But one can also observe the fact that these comments cause the space between the parties to become wider.

>>722605733

Fair enough, but how do you feel about factually aligning more closely with the ideals of the right now instead of the left... that is if you still believe in traditional liberal ideals.

>>722605641
Shut up Professor podcast

>>722605660
libtard.bat

>>722605526
If that's so then I'm not a liberal. But I think most people agree socialism is a liberal ideology.
>>722605549
They gotta go. The thing is that thinks of the political landscape as 1 axis. Left or right. Now it's two: establishment/anti and left/rigjt. The Democratic party is doomed if it continues only to focus on social issues and not economic ones. This is why it must change.

>>722605799
You asked what I thought about Trump. I answered.

>>722605733
>"It's okay to punch a nazi, because they're nazis"

That's definitely not something coming from the right, pal. antifa anyone?

what the fuck ever
your guy is in the big seat
YOU come up with some real plans

>>722604914
Good thing you can't shoot up public areas.
That's illegal.

>>722605788

affirmative action is a shit policy. Tax brackets have literally zero to do with anything

>>722605845

who dat

>>722605887
Why would OP come up with plans for Trump? That's Trump's job, and company.

>>722604797
I supported Bernie Sanders. Never liked Hillary too much, personally. Supported her out of team-spirit, I guess.

>>722605275
>capitalism in its current state

I dont understand why we are supporting someone who wants to dismantle the EPA.

>>722605911
>Tax brackets have literally zero to do with anything
yes they do. they redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor in the name of "fairness" aka equality of outcome.

"fair" is paying a fixed percentage, logically speaking.

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>>722605640
And the opposite of capitalism is communism, you just don't want to say it and make it clear what you're advocating. You want to call it something else, but even if you did it still wouldn't work.

This is where I have a problem with liberals. You really think you're slick and you really believe you're getting over on people, but you're not. Play all the wordgames you want, it's still the same shit.

>>722605850
Holy shit, can't believe you guys have Internet access, do you sext ur sister using the amazing 21st century technology??

>>722605641
Well I agree. The thing is I think we think differently about what opportunity means. If you think, for example, every American deserves the opritjnity to have fresh produce and be able to attend college, I agree. But that's not the case today.

>>722605745
A great one would be universal healthcare. Eventually high minimum wage or basic income, large investment in public college and infrastructure. Funded through estate, luxury, capital gains, income and derivative taxes.

>>722605858

I would have to agree. The dem party has no platform that speaks to the people. They continue to wield fake social issues as their main talking points

>>722604302
Disagreeing with Trump is a full-time job because of the sheer volume of bullshit he manages to spew forth.

Myself, I take exception to the "liberal"/"conservative" dichotomy as overly simplified and reductive, but am reasonably far left and pro-personal freedom. Not a communist or anything, but definitely a socialist.

In short, I'm for knowledge and against what you might call "political bias" - this has nothing to do with left/right or authoritarian/libertarian, it's just a general protest against "hurr durr I'm [x] so I must believe [y]" because that shit makes no fucking sense - and that guides my positions at least as much as pure ideology. I'd like to see a technocracy or an actual meritocracy for once.

Apart from that, I generally think that people should help eachother out and not focus every instant of their existence on fellating Ayn Rand and generally being a massive jew, and that corporations need to be controlled because greed is one of the major things ruining the fucking world and they're one of the foremost powerhouses of fucking shit up. I believe that one should be free to do whatever as long as it's not blatantly useless and that the entire planet is shite at using people's talent. I strongly resent the paranoia that's causing most governments to spy on everyone on the goddamn planet except possibly some dudes in the jungle. (Do you know the risk of dying to a terrorist attack? It's pretty fucking low)

>>722606020
No, I'm a capital C communist. I am quite willing to defend it. I think it's a good way to structure an economy, but needs to be phased in. Hence , Socialism. I'm also not an authoritarian, and authoritarianism isn't linked to communism. I'm an advocate for democracy first, communism second.

>>722604302
Classical Liberal here. Completely pissed at the democrats and MSM. Trump hasn't done anything yet that I'm actually pissed about.

Worst thing is maybe Devos as Education Secretary, and frankly what the fuck ever. Education here is so far gone that I've reached fuck it.

>>722605887
>what the fuck ever

I asked for you to explain your beliefs and why you believe the way you do (any sort of evidence, reason, logic). At no point in my OP did I claim "Trump was my guy." I'm giving you an open platform to explain your beliefs, your platform, why you side with "liberals" and all you just gave me was "what the fuck ever" like an angry 8 year old.

Are you ashamed of what you believe? Are you confused why you believe what you say you believe? What's the problem here?

>>722606025
stop projecting, asshat.

little do you know i am a dog who has taken his owners absence as an opportunity to discuss retro mylasion typewriting on an asian cartoon sex imageboard.

>>722605647
I'm a liberal and I mostly support Trump though I would have prefered the Burmeister.

Most of Trumps 'controversial' policies are just bringing the US in line with other western nations.

The Democrats only have themselves to blame for throwing the election with their empty campaign and track record.

Personally I think we're at the point where we should be considering transitioning to alternative forms of government. Something like a proxy voting or direct democracy would prevent elected representatives from sandbagging important issues or bundling a bunch of contradictory initiatives.

>>722606018
Then we agree.

>>722606033
universal healthcare is a disaster
and a high min wage would do absolutely nothing except eliminate jobs and drive up the cost of other goods and services. A high minimum wage just doesnt work. Instead of blaming a job designed for a high schooler, blame a person who doesnt have any ambition to improve their status in life.

>>722606033
The problem with all these taxes is all the money goes back to the friends of politicians.
Award my company this building contract for Tamany hall 2.0 and Ill give you a sweet job when you get out of office

>>722606128
Rationality? On my /b/?

GTFO

>>722606128

>not realizing he acts ridiculous on social media as a ploy to make sure the corrupt MSM focuses on that instead of lying about real things hes doing.

They take the bait so easily at this point.

>>722605832
well... I would say that I am traditionally a conservative (especially on the constitution), but with liberal ideas on regulation of business, and on personal liberties/self-determination. Unfortunately, given the faggotry displayed recently by some of the crazier Republicans, I agree with the Dems on more issues than not.

I oppose trump on a personal level, I think that we would be better off with the three stooges in office. Trouble is, there is no legitimate alternative that can be held up against trump at the moment. Until that happens, and a proper figurehead comes in that people can get behind, not much is going to get done.

>>722606128
>>722606191
>>722606355
>>722605790
>>722605799
>>722605878
>>722605404
>>722605433
>>722605275
Cuck

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I'm still waiting for a libtard to provide actual evidence for the one thing they call him most often, a racist. It seems to be an assumption with zero to back it up other than conjecture. OH, and that one person that wrote a book about Trump that says he said a racist thing in said book. Hearsay, also, seeing a book. Libtards just decide whois a racist, a Nazi, ect by appeal to the masses, their own, and that's it. Then they all parrot it like it's a proven fact and never question it all. Many of them don't seem to have a grasp on the actual definition of the word as well.

>>722606308
>Then we agree.
good.

>high minimum wage just doesnt work.
should say: minimum wage just doesnt work.

why are black teens unemployed? shitty culture? genetics? no. minimum wage.
jamal can't get a job that pays $9 an hour when he can't speak English. he could get a job for less and get valuable job experience but there are none.

at least thats what friedman and sowell said and they are pretty smart, eh?

>>722604914
We have a constitution that says American citizens have a right to bear arms.

I'm a liberal, but if we want to change that we should do it legally.

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>>722606503

>>722606503
>dae le cuck xd xd ecks dee

Fuck off back to red dit, you're making us all dumber.

>>722606510
What a retarded post, Hillbilly.exe 2

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>>722606128
Jesus, can you people not verbalize what you believe without name-calling and going on about something unrelated?

>trump spews bullshit
>people blowing ayn rand
>something about jews

Like none of that addresses my OP. For fuck's sake it was a simple question.

>>722606160
And, in your mind, you actually believe that communism/socialism can work when literally every example of it in history has failed save for, what, two euro countries with populations of about 2 mil people? It clearly cannot work and does not work on a large scale due to human greed. You'll never "figure it out" to take that one thing that makes it fail out of the system.

Let's take it even further and say those small euro countries where socialism has been tried ARE equal to places like Russia, Venezuela, Cuba where it's clearly failed (they are about 10 times the size but sake of argument). Now, 2-3 out of 10-15 countries in the world actually had a semi-successful socialist model. That's a success rate of less than 10%. When you took a test in school and scored a 10/100, did you pass? Did you get an A?

>>722606569

Why cant he get a job? Whats stopping him?

Min wage is designed to be an entry point into the workforce. It has to be somewhere. Only thing raising it to 15 will do is hyper inflate our entire economy.

>>722606706
not even white faggot

>>722606706
SAVAGE!
jk. its not. its lame. why not make an argument?

just to mess up with your minds a bit: i'm italian. Around here being "liberal" is considered being conservative right wing, as it is about liberalizing the market towards a more capitalist system, we do not consider being liberal about ethics or religion. In Italy I'm mainly a liberal, even if i did vote left once, as i want a free market setting even if i do like the fact that in italy we have a decent social welfare system. If i understand US correctly, there my ideas of a free market and social welfare would define me as a democrat. Still, when i hear all the equal rights bullshit about feminism, vegans or anything else that you faggots have been capable of producing lately i feel sick. Still, i would probably not have voted for trump, he scares the shit out of me just for being totally incompetent, he does not have any idea of what the world is (beside what makes or do not makes him make money) and i am afraid that his incompetence will push us towards WWIII

>>722606758
>Whats stopping him?
i said whats stopping him. lack of education/skill. most black teens literally cannot speak english. don't you understand how damning that is?
YO YO LET ME AX U A QUESHUN U FITTN 2 GO TA THE STO 2DAY?
you want that shit in your business? no.

>It has to be somewhere.
no it doesn't shit worked FINE before minimum wage.
minimum wage is a wedge between the VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT between employer and employee. if i am willing to work for less than min wage who are you to stop me, friend?

milton totaly OWNS this debate in my favor check it out if you care.

>>722606793
You're the same Italian who thought that US pulling out of Japan would cause WW3 because North Korea would invade them right?

Do they just not have schools in Italy or are you just retarded?

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>>722604302

>>722606066
The republican party never wielded any over hyped social issues? Right. It's a two sided coin, if we want it so bad why are you so opposed?

>>722606191
Sounds like a defeatist attitude. We're an incredibly rich country, and our schools suck. They often suck for reasons that have nothing to do with resources, and everything to do with people not giving a fuck, so you're part of the problem.

>>722606277
Like who? which nations are we falling in line with? And aren't we supposed to the leader? I don't recall a travel ban coming from Germany.

>Personally I think we're at the point where we should be considering transitioning to alternative forms of government. Something like a proxy voting or direct democracy would prevent elected representatives from sandbagging important issues or bundling a bunch of contradictory initiatives.

I hope you're kidding. Our system of government is massive, complicated, and requires hundreds of thousands of specialists, who collectively steer the largest military alliance in the world.

Maybe stability is a little more responsible than throwing all of that out.

>>722606308
So you are an economist? Maybe you actually used obamacare?
Also what do you do that makes you such an expert in ambition?

>>722606340
Politicians on both sides do this taxes or not. You do realize they have other means of corruption besides taxation?

>>722606711
That's why there are so few revolutionary communist, we pretty much all agree democracy will transition slowly to socialism which from there communism could be possible.

>>722606917
Have you ever thought that maybe the reason he can't talk good is because the education system is awful and needs to be redone? You could have given any example without bringing race into it.

>>722606917

First off im debating you not Milton.

>no it doesn't shit worked FINE before minimum wage.
minimum wage is a wedge between the VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT between employer and employee. if i am willing to work for less than min wage who are you to stop me, friend?

extremely conservative ideal which I happen to agree with. I dont think there should be a min wage when it comes down to it

>i said whats stopping him. lack of education/skill. most black teens literally cannot speak english. don't you understand how damning that is?
YO YO LET ME AX U A QUESHUN U FITTN 2 GO TA THE STO 2DAY?
you want that shit in your business? no.

so whos fault is it he speaks this way? Schools? parents? culture? community? who.

>>722606952
>HC was the first to establish...

stopped reading right there. ignoring the cold war and all that, romney made big news when he said russia was the US #1 threat when he ran for president.

>>722606944
>Catalog
ah ah ah no i'm not, but on a general leve l i'm not sure you want to compare average education level in italy with USA, 2/3 of your fellow americans have no understanding of any other country beside their own block.
Oh and obviosuly... we are still talking in our second language here, motherfucker.

>>722606988

>The republican party never wielded any over hyped social issues? Right. It's a two sided coin, if we want it so bad why are you so opposed?

Want what so bad?

>>722606569
And if Jamal was born into a ghetto where he doesn't know English or chooses not to go to school (even ghettos have schools) why should that be the responsibility of someone who doesn't even know jamal in another state?

I'm a Republican because I believe in greater states rights, more responsibility on the community. It takes a village to raise a child, not a federal government. If someone chooses to have a child irresponsibly then continue to be irresponsible and not take care of said child, there's no reason someone should be reaching into my pocket to provide for him/her. Dicks don't accidentally fall into vaginas and make babies. People make choices, good or bad, that affect their life. If Jamal's community doesn't give a shit about him, give me a valid reason why I, a total stranger who will never meet Jamal, should.

I ask for nothing from my government aside from maybe a highway to drive on, I get nothing from them aside from some street lights or some shit, and I refuse to let a federal government that doesn't even reside in the same state as me tell me I have some personal responsibility to take care of everyone else's problems. That's not freedom. That's not America.

>>722606988

>So you are an economist? Maybe you actually used obamacare?

Nope never used it

>Also what do you do that makes you such an expert in ambition?

Well if you are dissatisfied with the contract of your job you find a new job. really that simple.

>>722606711
As I said, and as you might have understood if you weren't busy blowing Ayn Rand, I'm not a communist. You won't see me defending communism.

I live in a functioning socialist country with one of the highest QoLs in the world, so... ok. I'm sure it's just an illusion, right?

Leaving aside the fact that there are working examples, your argument looks conspicuously "it sometimes fails and therefore is useless" - where, then, did your capitalism get the US? Oh right, oligarchy and plutocracy, that's where. But don't worry, I'm sure Trump and his millionaire++ buddies are really concerned with the average Joe.

Also, yes it bloody well did address the questions, you illiterate dumbfuck.

>>722607076
blacks and whites go to the same schools and get the same test results in inner cities while whites get jobs as teens and blacks don't. culture may be the cause of their disadvantage but the solution is giving them a change to learn in an environment that isn't a nigger ghetto, which they are robbed of by minimum wage which LOWERS THE AVAILABILITY OF JOBS to low wage workers.

min wage impedes entry into the job market for the uneducated. this is a FACT.

>>722607169
no, that's society. If you want to live on your own, buy an island.

>>722606510
So he says shit that's really close to the line, right? Like that border wall speech where he says stuff like:
> "When Mexico sends it people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

Well that sure sounds racist to most people. The real world isn't 4chan and you have to temper your ideas before you present them. Actions matter more to me though, and none of that is as bad as what the establishment has actually been doing for decades.

The reality is most illegal immigrants are probably good people. It's only a small percentage that commit crime (other than illegally being here). But I also recognize that having a conversation about borders isn't racist like the Democrats are saying, so I'm almost forced to side with you by default.

>>722604924
>this is how paranoid rednecks really think

top kek. it's been fun watching butthurt conservatives cling to the old ways of living, thinking DJT is going to magically bring back the low skilled jobs they used to have. Inevitably those jobs will stay overseas, and come 2020 Dems will be back in power.

Eventually all the old rednecks unable to adapt and get 21st century jobs will rot and beg for the welfare they voted against years ago.

And I'll be there to pay taxes to support you from my modern job, but not without saying I told you so.

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>>722604302
Great discussions guys, but is anyone ITT (presumably a liberal) going to actually give me a legit rundown on what you believe and why? Like 6-8 things. Just basic platforms and why you believe what you do. I've yet to see it. Tell me what you, an individual, stand for that isn't just "Trump's a jerk."

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>>722604302
This is all you need to know.

>>722607099
>extremely conservative ideal which I happen to agree with.
more libertarian than conservative IMO


>Schools? parents? culture? community? who.
who cares?
doesn't change the fact that min wage fucks nigs and mexicans who don't know english.

sqwawkers are usually voters who pulled their dongs 2 x for obama,wanted another ??? years of hillary
trump appeared with group[s from coast to border,visiting places democrats pass at 45k feet enroute to socal watering holes & beaches
trump held their attention by talking succinctly on the 4 things that have been simmering on the flyovers minds for 30 years,leaky borders,nations flipping us the bird,moozie nutters,job losses,in general a decline accross the board of the nation they were taught to be proud of,trump has met with religious people,vets,hourly worker & the business owners, farmers truckers,all the people who were a faithful anchor formerly,of the democrat base,the democrat base of 40 some years ago,
he talked to them, not at them, he knew they were already riled up did not do what the democrats daily practice consists of,making them furious,trump impelled NO ONE to violence,wanted them to remain peaceful,as they did even when attacked by democrat thuuug imports in chicago & santa monica
3 weeks in office democrats have knocked off 3 trump apptees,they will not relent they have to be told in action & word go pound sand.
they lost
he won
fuckem

>>722606917
>you want that shit in your business? no.
I'd rather have that in my business than you. Your English isn't much better.
>no it doesn't shit worked FINE before minimum wage.
According to who? Are you some kind of fucking historian? Economics degree?

Think if it this way. We are so rich as a country, Uncle Sam should help guarantee that the worst shitty life you can live isn't that bad. You're only opposed to this because you are writing me from a trailer right now. It can be better jim-bob.

>>722606793
>Still, i would probably not have voted for trump, he scares the shit out of me just for being totally incompetent, he does not have any idea of what the world is (beside what makes or do not makes him make money) and i am afraid that his incompetence will push us towards WWIII

You got to learn from burlesconi. These idiots did not.

>>722606711
You could say the same thing about free market capitalism. Either you can't read history books, or you're too rich to care, but the CAUSE of the communism you so dislike was unchecked CAPITALIST greed.

Don't want your serfs revolting? Give them bread asshole.

>>722606570
But it doesn't say WHICH arms. Let's meet int he middle: Crazies get flare guns. We cool fam?

>>722607334
>>722607334
2018 if things keep going the way they are

>>722607334

tippity topity kek mate. you have no clue what you speak of. The next 8 years are going to be fun with Trump dismantling your welfare state.

>>722604302
Okay filthy cunts you keep thrashtalking liberals because you dont understand shit about liberalism read a fucking book liberalism implies that we believe in human beings to be free from society rules and laws believing this doesn't means we're uncivilized but quite the opposite believing that humans will use common sense and morality to behave implies that we wouldn't need laws or a government to controlling our lifes and telling us what to do what not to do what's cool or whats not cool what to want what to feel what to desire
But whatever you filthy cunts i guess human race isn't evolved enough for liberalism

>>722607414

so whats your ideal solution?

>>722607410
kek

>>722607334
It's interesting that you seem to think rural areas are dying but don't want to help them.

If I said we should just let inner cities die a slow painful death would you think I was a racist?

>>722607271
State minimum wages are set to ensure that workers are compensated enough to make a living wage in their state. As a worker you are selling your spare time to a corporation for monotary gains. I don't think the minimum wage has ever stopped McDonalds from hiring a fucking burger flipper.

>>722607466
That's not liberalism, that's anarchy.

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>>722607247
I didn't call you a communist anywhere in my post, I was very clearly addressing someone else.

You're resorting to name-calling and child-like insults again instead of telling me what you believe and why you support liberals. It's a very very simple question. You're just avoiding it like the plague and it's sad honestly.

>>722607140
Je ne suis pas Américain mon ami et l'anglais n'est pas ma langue maternelle non plus.

J'étais là quand vous avez dit que Chine envahirait Japon.

Ton anglais est bien mais vous êtes toujours stupide.

>>722604302
This is coming from the idiots who still scream about Hillary?

Right now theres an orangutan making decisions, if an orangutan starts chucking shit, you go omg somebody stop the shit monkey, you don't go "well if I were him I would definitely use the toilet"

trying to make policy decisions when you aren't in power is retarded, questioning the idiots with power is more useful.

>>722604302
I'm no liberal. But Trump casts a rethorical and intelectual shadow in which much worse thing than him will grow & flourish.

The fact that he's another leader that romanticizes about nostalgia, and has no greater vision for the future than what the past has offered, is troubling.

If you have any insight in contemporary philosophy, this guy is pretty much the antithesis´.

Obama was no saint, but hell did he know the power of words, and how it affects those that listen.

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>>722607414
>schools? parents? community? who cares?

You do realize that all political parties have positions on each of the topics you just rattled off. Do you not know what your own particular parties stance on them are? I'm starting to wonder if liberals even know why they identify with the liberal movement to begin with. Holy cow.

>>722606988
>Sounds like a defeatist attitude. We're an incredibly rich country, and our schools suck. They often suck for reasons that have nothing to do with resources, and everything to do with people not giving a fuck, so you're part of the problem.

It's not about defeat. It's about how the idea of centralizing education has failed us. I'm glad that the US courts are blocking things like creationist education across the country, but yet the actual systems are failing. Maybe trying something else won't hurt. If you actually care, we should start a non-profit secular school system funded by donors.

>>722607711
I feel like people just clump themselves under the liberal umbrella because it's "not conservative."

>>722607711

its not about the facts its about how they feel. This defines the left currently.

>>722607169
>I ask for nothing from my government aside from maybe a highway to drive on,
private companies build highways, not the government. public roads were a mistake.

LIBERTARIAN 4 LYFE

>>722607510
>I don't think the minimum wage has ever stopped McDonalds from hiring a fucking burger flipper.
your wrong.

>>722607409

If you can't name liberal policies you're not paying attention.

1) single payer healthcare
2) stronger financial regulation
3) tax incentives for alternative energy
4) remove tax breaks for fossil fuels
5) accept foreign refugees in reasonable numbers, trusting the well established vetting process to continue to function
6) challenge citizens united
7) dismantle the war on drugs and defund the prison industrial complex

>>722607152
Anything we ask for.

Gay Marriage: What are you so afraid of? If it's a bullshit issue let it pass.

Abortion: If it's a bullshit issue, why not stop fighting?

Women's/Trans rights: If it's such a bullshit issue, why not ignore it?

>>722607239
Unless you are put into a system where that's functionally impossible. I don't know if you're aware but, being forced into being a slave via debt is something society tried in the 19th century.

And please grow some humility. Getting a better job isn't as simple as "trying harder" for many people. What, is the guy with downs syndrome at the grocery store just a strong dose of "effort" from becoming an executive? Come on.

And yeah, there are actually tons of jobs that pay highly in tech and engineering fields - but the way people whine in these threads I don't think the average american has the brain capacity for it.

>Nope never used it
It's better than dumbassess flooding the emergency room because they can't afford preventative care. You realize they do that right? You're going to be footing the bill for their horseshit no matter what.
>>722607247
>I live in a functioning socialist country with one of the highest QoLs in the world, so... ok. I'm sure it's just an illusion, right?

American Rednecks can't distinguish between socialism and communism. Likely takes more reading comprehension then they have.

>>722607271
>min wage impedes entry into the job market for the uneducated. this is a FACT.

First of all I think you're an asshole for arguing poor people should be *poorer*, second a moron to think they will tolerate that, and third you know nothing of the job market.

And at any rate, the reason it's hard to get a job is that 0 skill jobs are dissapearing and our schools refuse to teach math and compute science.

You can make 6 figures writing shitty Java. Any moron can do it, but Americans refuse. That's not the fault of the minimum wage.

>>722607681
Look, Trump has words. He has... the best... the best words, really, you can ask anyone. They'll tell you, his words are better than any other words.

Obama just did it with saner policies and without sounding like a drooling retard.

>>722607580
I know but both ideologies are similar
Anarchy is a form of extreme liberalism

>>722604302
Assuming this isn't a troll, here are my honest beliefs:

The American prison system is bigger than the Soviet Gulags and needs to be completely rethought.

Education needs more funding and teachers need more respect: our kids are literally the future of humanity.

Our system of jobs, taxation, welfare and capital distribution is broken: a few wealthy people have absurd amounts of money while so many people are broke as fuck and can't find a good job.

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>>722607466
>Okay filthy cunts...trashtalking...

So you start off with name-calling and assumptions when I did neither in my OP? Ok....

>liberalism implies we believe in human beings to be free from societies rules and laws....

Only, liberals in the US are in favor of greater federal control, less states rights and making it a hate crime to not let a tranny use your bathroom. They're also in favor or having some people pay for other's healthcare.

>telling us what do do, what not to do...

Like liberal hollywood making commercials telling the Electoral College to vote against Trump despite it being illegal?

Hmmm.....your arguments are flimsy at best, some are downright hypocritical, pal. You sound like you should really come to the Republican side to be honest.

>>722607492
make no laws which FORCE people from making VOLUNTARY mutual contracts like those involved in employment.

make no laws impeding my FREEDOM unless it is saving someone else from harm. (someone ELSE not ME)

>>722607877
No, I'm really not. The reason why I'm not is because according to your logic if the minimum wage increases, corporations will be able to pay less people, which is true for all intents and purposes, I'm not trying to argue that it is not. What I am trying to argue is that the abundance of menial labor jobs will always be present, and that the entry threshold is so low that anyone could get the job.

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>>722607422

>>722604302
Trump is the first of many painfull divorces between capitalism and democracy.

The stage is set for a future, social democracy.

The need for sorting out the economic inequalities or the poorest will always galvanize to elect someone why will shatter the system, for good, or as it is most of the times, for the worst.

Who will fix socioeconomic inequalitites? The companies?! plz, they got us into this mess, so the need for a rebirth of a more modern welfare state is needed, so shit doesn't go circular.

>>722607909
You mean:
>Accept all refugees, give all foreigners unlimited access.
>Make corporations pay for alternative energy while you embezzle money
>Support the minimum healthcare you can get away with to keep corporations happy.
>Support quotas to kick white men out of jobs.

>>722607662
I didn't say anything about Hillary in my OP.
I didn't say anything about Trump aside from pointing out the name-calling.

Again, unless you're going to give me a list or explain your platforms, you're wasting my time and everyone else's time ITT.

>>722607919
>You can make 6 figures writing shitty Java. Any moron can do it, but Americans refuse. That's not the fault of the minimum wage.
Nobody is going to pay a random moron 6 figures to write Java. Please just think for a second about what would happen if every person in America tried to do what you're suggesting at once.

>>722607508
Rural areas need to adapt to the changing economic reality by learning 21st century skills instead of trying to return to some golden age they see through rose-colored glasses where a high school diploma guaranteed every dumbass a decent paying factory job.

>If I said we should just let inner cities die a slow painful death would you think I was a racist?

That slow painful death has been imposed upon inner cities in no small part by a racist agenda thinly disguised as a war on drugs, so it's a little more complicated than the situation currently besetting privileged white hicks too lazy to learn modern skills.

>>722605275
>>722605640
America does not have capitalism right now, it is crony-capitalism. The government has its hand in all the honey jars and it just needs to get the fuck out and do its real job and just let capitalism actually happen.
>>722605647
this guy understands

>>722607409
>>722604302

On the economy, I believe in smart government investment to advance industry-changing and world-changing technology, like the internet, gene editing, solar power. And must take the lead in funding and planning the building and maintenance of first class infrastructure connecting the county by road, rail, air, sea, and online.

On foreign policy, I favor the long American tradition of utilizing all of our leverage -- diplomatic, economic, espionage, and military -- to shape global affairs towards the success of American values and the protection of American hegemony -- which maintains the peaceful world order.

On health, I believe health care is a right and that Americans would be best served (medically and financially) by universal coverage under a medicare for all plan.

On education, I believe in a universal high quality public education that stretches from K-12. And free community college for job-to-work Associates programs.

On immigration, I believe that undocumented residents must be offered a path to citizenship, where they can remain in the country and pay full taxes (as well as a fine and back-taxes) but must wait in line behind others current applying for legal citizenship. I'm in favor of jailing (for their entire term) then deporting any violent criminal aliens to avoid criminals using deportation and re-entry to bypass prison.

On justice, I believe in legalization and taxation of marijuana, and an end to all mandatory minimum sentences. I believe private prisons must not exist.

etc etc.
Helpful?

>>722605983
i would say this is the current biggest problem facing america (actually the whole western world). the political teaming up. why not just be team canada, usa, uk, germany etc and vote for the person that has your nations best interests at heart, not the party that has the shiney ideology.

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>>722607778
I'm starting to think you may be on to something, anon.

>>722607422
Kys multi poster trash.

>>722607919

>Gay Marriage: What are you so afraid of? If it's a bullshit issue let it pass.

Fine with it. Im not fine with the gov coming to tell businesses how to conduct their business.

>Abortion: If it's a bullshit issue, why not stop fighting?

Im cool with extremely early abortions. As soon as the baby starts taking shape more than a clump of cells I believe its murder.

>Women's/Trans rights: If it's such a bullshit issue, why not ignore it?

Women have rights. Trans people to.

>Unless you are put into a system where that's functionally impossible.

which it isnt in America

>Getting a better job isn't as simple as "trying harder" for many people. What, is the guy with downs syndrome at the grocery store just a strong dose of "effort" from becoming an executive? Come on.

because there arent any quality jobs in between min wage and executive right? shoo shoo strawman

>>722604924
This guy really really gets it.

>>722608070
Ok, Benito.

>>722608084
hurr durr they takin mah job

>>722608084
>derp, lemme just parrot what Rush told me liberals wanna do

awww poor white men, they have it so hard.


>Support quotas to kick white men out of jobs.

gimme a break, I'm white, not from a well off family, and it's like I'm playing life on easy mode.

>>722607877
You're*

You fucking mongoloid.

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>>722607422
>I'd rather have that in my business than you. Your English isn't much better.
like i give a fuck

>Economics degree?
im amateur but you know there was an economy before min wage legislation, right?
pic related is what ive read on econ shit, probably a lot more than you even though its only a few thousand pages.

>Uncle Sam should help guarantee
NOPE
leave it to the states if they want it NOT FEDERAL!

>>722608142
"letting capitalism actually happen" leads to wage slavery, shitty monopolies, and toxic chemicals in your drinking water. pretty sure that's not what you want

>>722608084
Good thing you have a predetermined narritive for any situation.

Keeps you from actually having to evaluate what you believe.

>>722607778
>>722607778
ironically there's less ideological consistency in the GOP right now, which is why their primary was such a shit show. Y'all don't follow politics much, do you?

>>722608059
>What I am trying to argue
no your not your just throwing around assumptions.

you think a company can not hire more people if they are able to pay less?

i think your retarded, m8

>>722607778
This, sort of. I generally disagree with conservative values. I think most of the time you are completely useless fucks. But sometimes I'm glad you're here to tell these liberal fucks that they're going too far.


At least US politics seems to work a bit like: Democrats say the shit we want to hear (normally). Then do nothing. Republicans say retarded garbage but run like rational human beings half the time.

>>722608070

oh this should be good. What socioeconomic inequalities are those anon?

>>722604302
I'm liberal. I own 6 guns and want to get more
Am I normal?

>>722607919
>for arguing poor people should be *poorer*,
first of all i dont care what you think about me second of all i did not argue that at all. try reading my post again.

>is that 0 skill jobs
there is no such thing

>You can make 6 figures writing shitty Java. Any moron can do it,
your a fucking dolt. jamal can't code he can't even pass algebra. get real. get outside your bubble m8.

>>722607334
They cling to a shit tier exitense hoping to be farmers and factory workers because they worship pride of place.

Virginia is the best place because *I* was born there.

Idiots.

>>722607409
I reject the term liberal because it's been abused to death and no longer means what it's supposed to mean.

I support:
-Letting people do what they want with their bodies.
-Freedom of trade
-Freedom of labor movement
-Equality and respect for minorities.
-Fair taxes on the rich, and incentives to give back to society.
-Investments in infrastructure
-Strong central government rather than strong state government
-Support of our traditional allies (NATO)
-Civil discourse and restraint.
-High quality education.
-Strong support of tech sectors.
-Science based decision making.
-Stop climate change
-More nuclear power
-Stop the fucking war on drugs.

Happy?

>>722607437
Except not, because half of the republican homeland looks like a rusted out shit bucket. Once those oxycontin swilling retards realize their WIC cheese is leaving, they will change their tune.

>>722607508
Rural areas aren't dying, rural lifestyles and mindsets are. And for that matter, the only reason people trash talk the country is that you all are dead set to impose your xenophobic horseshit on the rest of us.

Brown people aren't scary. Get over it.

>>722607752
Yeah, no, no one will ever donate that much money dude. What you will *get* if you tear apart schools is *very* expensive private schools.

Then your kids who can't afford a 2nd college tuition to go to highschool are fucked.

>>722607778
The term Liberal should die.

>>722607828
And who paid them to do it?

>>722607877
No, you are wrong. McDonalds is just fine, and if you are more worried about them then your fellow man you should go learn some empathy.

>>722608356
I said the will be able to pay less people. As in, a reduction in the workforce. Learn basic reading comprehension and take a grammar class, troglodyte.

>>722608402
there's nosuch thing as normal

>>722607334
>>722608129

so what your saying is its totaly ok that jobs go overseas and its also totaly ok for people to be on welfare. here is an idea though, how do you think all your libtard programs will be paid for? what taxes?

also its kinda elitist to assume that all people have the same intelligence level, for many factory jobs were a decent days pay for a decent days work that didnt require too much intelligence

you are a fool and need to learn what your talking about before forming an opinion.

>>722604302
I am a liberal, but I believe that it's more important to have politicians with the peoples' best interest in office than it is to have politicians whose views align with yours (unless you're super rich, anyway, which is why things are the way they are in the US now).

Donald Trump is probably already the most corrupt president we've ever had, his presidency so far has been a disaster, and he is a pathological liar. It's honestly mind boggling to me how people can't see that; I lose hope for the future when I see working class Americans that support Trump even though Trump doesn't give two shits about them and has no idea how to "make america great again"

tl;dr he's a fucking moron, and got elected because 49% of America is fucking morons and, for some reason, the electoral college exists

>>722608309
not at all actually. for instance monopoly cannot exist without state legislation. i wont bother to reply to you im out this thread is full of IDIOTS.

fuckin liberals lol.

>>722604914
More Americans with guns = more dead Americans
Dead Americans = good Americans
More guns = more good Americans
>wins everywhere

>>722608482
great, how does that negate my point?

>>722608397
You just didn't let the disenfranchised vote for a man who promised more or less to turn back time?

That socioeconomic inequality

>>722608457
>Brown people aren't scary. Get over it.
Take a walk through Harlem at 3 am and get back to me.

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>>722607956
Hey, awesome. Thanks man for finally pulling through with me and actually answering my OP and not just tumbling into talking about a cheeto or something. Cool.

>American prison system is bigger than the Gulags and needs to be rethought

I can agree on this as a conservative and while I don't agree everybody with a dime bag should get a prison sentence, I do think that a great number of people that are there are violent and dangerous to society so while I'm in favor of cutting some costs and letting some lower-level offenders out I don't feel it should be an excuse for letting any violent offender out or give them a pass for anything.

>Education needs more funding and teachers need more respect

I agree that children are our future, however, I don't believe it's a lack of funds or a lack of respect for teachers. As it stands right now, teachers unions go on strike all the time for pay raises but anytime there's a recommendation to pay them on their actual achievements or merits, ie how well they actually teach kids, they pitch a fit. That's like a guy making burgers asking for a raise but you can't ever watch him actually make a burger. That's ridiculous.

I also don't believe the federal government should be reaching their hands into education half as much as they do. No Child Left Behind? Common Core? Both failures, each from one side of the federal government. Leave it up to states to allocate funds and figure out how it's best to teach their own kids.

>system of jobs, taxation, welfare capital distribution

I've never had trouble ever finding a job and I've worked since I was 10 years old. Just because I see a bunch of rich guys somewhere else that have way more than me doesn't mean a) that system's broken or b) that I deserve anything they have. I just can't agree with you on that sorry.

Still I appreciate the straight answer man

>>722608309
not really.

the idea is that if people feel strongly about what a company is doing wrong then they refuse to buy from them or work for them until they fix their shit.

that is how capitalism is supposed to work, the apathy and self interest of people kills it tho

>>722608259
>thosands of illegals in entry level jobs
>dey terk er jerbs libs swarm to silence this
>Trump set to deport 12 million parasites
Lib response:
>think of all the fields of rotting fruit, unflipped burgers and custodian work!

>>722608457
>No, you are wrong. McDonalds is just fine, and if you are more worried about them then your fellow man you should go learn some empathy.
what part of volentary dont you get? you think it hurts jamal to get a job for $6 when he CANT for $9 or MORE?
lets just normalize welfare for blacks so they never get jobs that will make them progress as a people right? oh wait that isn't working. guess your a fucking moron!
learn empathy? why dont you learn to fucking think you basic fucking bitch.

>>722608551
You're choosing the point on which I agreed with you to base your counter argument. Maybe if you addressed the point I actually made we could continue a dialogue.

>>722608309
Antitrust faggot

>>722607987
1. Yeah well i like name calling people and I've read alot of people arguing against what liberalism stands for and both sides are wrong very often

2.Read number one both sides are wrong in what liberalism implies
>universal health care
Well this isn't something they're not wrong universal healthcare
free education and police order are the only three things that the government has to justify their own existence according to liberalism

>Honestly i dont really care about who won the election in usa but to be honest if i was american between Clinton and Trump I'd have voted for trump and know this coming from someone who has strong anarchy ideologies.

>>722608129
Complete hypocrisy. And if you don't think helping out a segment of our country is reasonable because they "should know better" then let me tell you about racism.

How about you help out both instead of being a little bitch about it? How is a white man working in a coal mine in west virginia more privileged that a black president? What program would help him transition to a tech job like you're advocating for?

>>722604302
Underlore.com

That's what I believe. But then I'm pro gun and pro nuclear and not afraid of Trump.

Abandoning thread :)

>>722608331
>pot calling the kettle black

>>722608402
You sound more libertarian than liberal.

>>722604302
I'll summarise for you
>dear pussy, why do you hate us nazi's. I'll kick your fucking head in if you hate me you pussy bitch. Lots of love, nazi

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I believe in multiculturalism on a basis of mutual respect and shieeeeet, and when thats broken is when youre a cunt and shouldnt be a part of society, fuck radicalism, basically, but not muslims. fuck niggers.

>>722608677
>Maybe if you addressed the point I actually made we could continue a dialogue.
oh that point which is not a fact but just an opinion you offered with nothing to back it up or am i thinking of something else?
here is my retort to your opinion: its wrong. there, same argument, no argument.

ITT: Trailer trash rednecks explain how they know more about economics than educated liberals who make more money than they could ever dream of.

>>722608259
>>722608267
But you seem surprised when white people (men and women) vote against your dumb asses and you lose elections.

>>722608609
Nice strawman. Walk through any lower socio-economic area in the world at three am and not shit your pants

>>722608809
You mean hipsters with gauges, vaporizers and degrees in Star Wars studies?

>>722608457
>Implying college matters
Knock knock, the real world is here to wake you the fuck up.

>>722604302
Can't talk for all liberals, obviously, but here you go:-

- Redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor
- Free and quality public education plus private option
- Universal public health care plus private option
- Adherance to moral norms of behaviour
- Tolerance of other religions, races and sexualities
- An independent (ie apolitical and unelected) judiciary
- Protection of the environment to avoid catastrophic climate change
- A professional media free of either corporate or government control
- Information based decisions & science investment
- Peaceful foreign intervention where possible and leading role in supranational institutions
- State ownership of key infrastructure and loss leading industries
- Neo Keynesian solutions to cycle downturns
- Bipartisanship and mutual respect

>>722605733
Completely agree with you anon

>>722608809
in this post anon tries to imply that liberals know more about economy than conservatives despite liberal government being a scary good indicator of DEBT

>>722608492
those jobs are going overseas because of the free market. A guy in Cambodia is sewing your t-shirt for pennies a day, and no American would ever do that. You guys need to compete.

"libtard" programs are paid for with taxes from blue states like NY, California, where innovation is taking place and modern profits are generated.

>its kinda elitist to assume that all people have the same intelligence level

Trust me, I don't assume you have the same "intelligence level" as everyone else.

>for many factory jobs were a decent days pay for a decent days work that didnt require too much intelligence

Yeah, but unless you want to do that shit for pennies a day you need to sit down at a computer and google "useful career skills" and start reading, not beg some clueless demagogue to bring back your fucking obsolete factory job.


>you are a fool and need to learn what your talking about before forming an opinion.

OK, kid ;)

>>722608902
>I can't think of a counter argument so I'll just try to denigrate you

>>722605187
Work isn't a requirement you can get a gun license for sport, it's simply a matter of paperwork and time and a clean record.

>>722608457

>Letting people do what they want with their bodies.
The issue is literally about a body which is not the persons

>Freedom of trade
We just had freedom of trade. the results were jobs abandoning the country

>Freedom of labor movement
Not even sure what this is. Too vague

>Equality and respect for minorities.
have it.

>Fair taxes on the rich, and incentives to give back to society.
have that too. although the tax braket is about to improve

>Investments in infrastructure
getting that with trump

>Strong central government rather than strong state government
the federal government is terrible at everything

>Support of our traditional allies (NATO)
check. got that.

>Civil discourse and restraint.
ironically not shown in recent months by the left

>High quality education.
agreed.

>Strong support of tech sectors
double agreed

>Science based decision making.
agreed yet again.

>Stop climate change
top "climate scientists" cant even agree on what the problem is or how to fix it. And i put those words in quotes because 90% of them arent actually qualified to speak about the topics they are.

>More nuclear power
we only have so much open coastline.... which is where they have to go

>Stop the fucking war on drugs.
disagree.

>>722608890
i grew up in social housing in canada and frequently walked through the neighbourhood at 3 am.

your argument is retarded.

>>722607988
I hate to break it to honey, but the catch is that everyone needs a job so employment at large can't be looked at that way.

We tried that in the 19th century... it sucked ass.

>>722608084
>Accept all refugees, give all foreigners unlimited access.
I prefer Indians to furktards from Mississippi. Sorry heartland, they are better educated and don't beat up brown people because they are brown.
>Make corporations pay for alternative energy while you embezzle money
Sure. Fuck em.
>Support the minimum healthcare you can get away with to keep corporations happy.
Honey boo, when you talk about "corporations" in the abstract like that you sound like a moron. What's the highest building you've been in? Your local waffle house.

Instead of worrying about who's bribing who, why don't act a little more "christian" and think of your fellow man who's suffering from lack of healthcare?
>Support quotas to kick white men out of jobs.
Fuck em. And you mean dumb white men right? Because I'm white as fuck and never got pushed out of a single job.

If you have a good job in this country, you can make a good side income just recruiting people - there are *so man* open positions.

If only rednecks wanted to learn math. Instead they pretend it's the brown man's fault they can't work.

>>722608114
I'm just saying there is a massive unfilled labor pool for tech. Wages are only going up. It's not uncommon to get a $20-30k raise in a SINGLE YEAR and that's not counting bonuses and other incentives.

So sorry. Go learn math and you'll all be fine.

>>722608223
>because there arent any quality jobs in between min wage and executive right? shoo shoo strawman

Because you can't legally mandate people be ambitious. Not every single human in your country can withstand fighting the rat race to stave off crushing poverty.

Stability is good. It helps. Letting people know they wont be fucked if they are fired is good.

>>722608776
Except I did provide an argument. If there is a reduction in the workforce due to a minimum wage hike and literally every corporation has to cut its staff there will be a large surplus of workers. These workers will then need to sell their time, but no one is buying, because let's be real here; the minimum wage is just a price floor. And that floor varies across state lines, but that doesn't matter. What does matter is the surplus that is now created. this surplus would most likely cause an economic collapse, but my argument was that menial labor jobs will always be in abundance because those corporations are not going out of business.

>>722608928
Like Bush vs Clinton vs Bush
>please try again

>>722605275
>>722605640
>>722607247
>>722607422
>>722608309

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGL-Ex1CD1c

Watch this video, it's kind of long but I dont think you will be supporting communism/socialism afterwards, this guy knows his shit.

>>722608902
>>722608928
Liberal economic backwater: http://static.thousandwonders.net/Manhattan.original.98.jpg

Symbol of conservative economic might: http://www.rawstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/huckabee_kimdavis-800x430.jpg

What's it like living in the 1840s? It must be fascinating.

>>722608890
OK, Snowflake

>>722608928
Debt that rises even more under republican administration since they cut taxes but don't reduce spending either as that would cost votes.

>>722608693
There are countless resources available to learn 21st century skills online for free.

>then let me tell you about racism.

It's not racism to ask people to learn new trades. It's how society advances. Suck it up, snowflake.

>>722609040
You grew up there tough guy

>>722609089
>cherry picking vs aggregate average
looks like my example is good and yours is fucking retarded.

what do you expect, libtardation is usually chronic.

>>722609052

>Because you can't legally mandate people be ambitious.

thank you for making my point. if they choose to stay in a min wage job then that is what they get. no one is faulting them for it. but that doesnt mean mcdonalds needs to pay 15/hr for a job designed for a high schooler to do part time for gas money.

Also guns fucking suck. They hold no place in a modern society other than police and military.

>>722609220
Wow look at that counter argument, you sure are sticking it to me.

>>722608826
I wasn't surprised. It makes sense that you entitled cunts would try to elect someone to magically lift you out of your economic unrest instead of doing the work to fix your problems yourselves. But I'm still going to laugh when those jobs stay overseas, and in 2018 when your pockets are just as empty it'll be our turn again.

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>>722608457
OP here, again and thanks for the contribution. Let's see...

>Letting people do what they want with their bodies
I have no problem with this as a Republican, what I don't support is using a "pride" parade as an excuse for guys to walk around in assless chaps and dildos hanging off of them in public where old people and children are present.

>Freedom of Trade
I also believe in this. That pendelum swings both ways though. If it's best for our country to reel back our trade or impose tariffs on other countries because it will benefit our own then that's what we should do. Our country first. That's the basis of all trade.

>Freedom of labor movement
This is vague, but if you're talking about companies moving to other countries. Cool, but they're going to get their asses taxed when they try to import their products to the US because, again, our country first. If you mean migrant labor, I have no problem with legal immigration but let's not kid ourselves and act like illegal migrant workers aren't a huge problem

>Equality and respect for minorities
I don't respect anyone on any level based on the color of their skin or their heritage. Likewise, I don't disrespect them because of it. Minorities are already equal in the US, in fact, as a white conservative they have an advantage over me. There's no hate crime to protect me. There's no affirmative action. If someone punches me in the face, as a white man, they might get 60 days in jail. If someone punches an arab in the face and they say it's because they're arab, that person will spend 6 months+ in jail. That's not equality at all.

>Fair taxes on the rich
I'm in favor of a flat tax. Everybody pay the same amount until everybody's paying something stop trying to focus on the "rich." Who's to say what's fair or not? Everyone has a different definition.

Hold on, I'll get to a few more of your points in just a sec but good dialogue so far in my opinion

>>722608989
You're the one throwing stereotypes as arguments retard, only it appears you're unaware stereotyping is a two way street. You think American right-wingers are backwards rednecks; conversely libs can be characterized as emasculated vapers with worthless degrees and embrace socialism to cover up for personal shortcomings. Suffice to say, don't sling shit and expect it not to come back; you might as well not post otherwise.

>>722609052
>Instead of worrying about who's bribing who, why don't act a little more "christian" and think of your fellow man who's suffering from lack of healthcare?
I'm for single-payer. I'm saying Democrats ARE NOT. Obama had a democrat congress and passed the same republican healthcare we would have gotten with R-Money, binders full-a-women.

And the quotas thing is a real problem you need to let go of. I'm never going to vote for institutional racism. Plus you can't tell people that we need more diversity of opinions in leadership and simultaneously tell me that a trans-woman is a real woman and should be respected as one. And can change her gender tomorrow, or any day of the week.

>>722609061
>this surplus would most likely cause an economic collapse,
lol. no, it wont.
the surplus manifests in unemployment, like you almost said.
we are talking about unemployment, remember my original post?
we are talking about the surplus you think doesn't exist because you think min wage is good for some unspecified reason.

>that menial labor jobs will always be in abundance.
abundant in general sure but locally? maybe not. anyway jamal isn't getting a low end job he is UNEMPLOYED.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=unemployment+demographics

its much worse with teens and young adults.

>>722608902
Hehe... dumbass blue collar proles. Have you heard of the "middle class"? It's made up of educated people in white collar jobs who largely tend to be liberal.

No, you're not middle class. You have a blue collar job, you're working class. You're life is supposed to suck, it wasn't Obama's fault.

>>722608973
you still did not address the problems i pointed out with your argument. all you did is add more problems.

>those jobs are going overseas because of the free market. A guy in Cambodia is sewing your t-shirt for pennies a day, and no American would ever do that. You guys need to compete

anyone who would avocate that this is acceptable in any way shape or form for either country involved is a shortsighted retard. your essentialy saying "avoid the problem, rape other countrys, unemploy the less intelegent, deepen the divide of the 1 percent from the 99 percent and everything will work out as long as californians sit at a desk"

btw those desk jobs are going to india at "pennies per day" have fun in the unemployment line with everyone else faggot.

There's a reason why all intelectual and college proffesors are liberals, and all poor rednecks and corporatists are conservatives: one group of people is intelligent and concerned with humanity, and the other is retarded and concerned with only themselves or their underdeveloped political views.

The only group of people that i atleast respect in the right is libertarians, mostly due to their naive idealism, but they too, are insane (likely even more so.)

/pol/

>>722609235
>im wrong so ill move the goalpost

neat argument

>>722609134
What's it like learning we know you just cherry picked? Cleveland is a lovely city this time of year and I know Chicago has excellent crime and poverty statistics.

>>722609232
It's not racism to except people to not kill each other. It's not racism to expect people to obey police. It's not racism to enforce borders. It's not racism to hire white men. It's not racism to provide assistance and attention to rural areas so they can grow and develop new forms of business.

>>722606952
Regardless of *who* started this narrative the rest is absolute truth.

>>722609241
Except that debt went down and gdp went up significantly during the Clinton era versus both of the Bush era's

Learn to argument

>>722609134
>Liberal economic backwater:
cherry picking, opinion discarded.
being a liberal state means your in debt, on average. not true for being a red state.
my argument is based on aggregate average yours is cherry picked irrelevance.

whats it like being retarded when it comes to making an argument? must be fascinating.

>>722609474
Have you listened to any Trump supporters at rallies and on TV? Their entire argument is based on saying rural conservatives are getting poorer while educated liberals are getting richer due to globalisation. That's your own side saying it.

>>722609437
Yeah those coal miners are so privileged. Those factory workers are doing so much better than the latina women attending college.

>>722609534
You claim education yet you can't even use the contraction of "you are" correctly or have the decency to proof read.

ITT: why politics can never work properly.

too many uneducated ideas on both sides of the political spectrum

>>722609226
WRONG. debt is made by CONGRESS not the president.
relating debt to president is STUPID. relate it to control of LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

srsly this is BASIC shit.

>>722608285
You lost the war billy-joe. No one wants to live under the grand state of Virginia.

>like i give a fuck
So you are just a racist spewing shit

>im amateur but you know there was an economy before min wage legislation, right?
pic related is what ive read on econ shit, probably a lot more than you even though its only a few thousand pages.

Then go read fucking oliver twist, or maybe the communist manifesto. You serfs get pissy when you aren't guaranteed workers rights. You tend to overthrow things when the inevitable abuse comes.

The sad thing is you are likely poor yourself, and are actively fucking yourself over with this sentiment.

> NOT FEDERAL!
Maybe you are just still butthurt over the civil war Billy Joe.

>>722608309
This man sees the obvious.

>>722608334
Because they have no real ethics - they just care about running their little rural fiefdoms.

>>722608438
>there is no such thing
Agreed, but half of the American rednecks believe in some kind of magical timeline where they walk into a factory job out of high school and make a living wage. That would be a no-skill job, in my opinion. Because any asshole off the street could be trained to do it.

>ur a fucking dolt. jamal can't code he can't even pass algebra. get real. get outside your bubble m8.

Hey man, maybe country bumpkins would have an easier time in the corporate world if they dropped the racist shit. Jamal doesn't make every single issue into a skin color issue, and he's not brimming with small dicked redneck rage. MUH STATESRIGHTS

>>722608525
Like you would know.

>>722608609
Again, showing that you have never left your trailer park. Harlem is highly gentrified, and is not only safe - but fucking expensive luxury housing.

Update your racist hate speech.

>>722608622
Tell that to the Russian serfs. Or to American miners in the 1800s. You're dangerously short sighted.

>>722607466
The New American Liberals are in reality the New Domestic Terrorists and should be expunged as such.

>>722609611
nah, you're an idiot.

>anyone who would avocate that this is acceptable in any way shape or form for either country involved is a shortsighted retard

It's called globalism, and if you ever took an economics class you'd understand that it provides a net benefit to both countries. Distribution of that benefit is up to the policymakers.

> "avoid the problem, rape other countrys"

except that sweatshop worker was making less before H&M came around and paid him $1/day, so it's a little more complicated than that, which you'd know if you had thought about this before but you totally haven't

>everything will work out as long as californians sit at a desk"

The middle class is made of people working in an expanding information economy driven by innovations on the coast. You have every opportunity to join it if you're willing to put in the work and learn some modern skills.

I'll humor you

I believe in complete separation of church and state. Essentially that means 100% pro-choice and against sentiments that churches should have any political draw or that any legislation should be religiously inspired.
I believe that the freedoms allotted in the constitution are equally allotted to everyone, and that there should be no priority based on race, religion or gender in places where they are not relevant.
I believe generally that government regulation is required to ensure a free and competitive market doesn't cannibalize itself. All of the biggest recessions in America since the Industrial Age have been the product of deregulation and over speculation.
I believe in universal healthcare, and i believe the ACA, while flawed in its most current iteration, was a step in the right direction. The problem it ultimately runs into is the capitalistic nature of private insurance.
I believe that the wealthy of the country should be at least as proportionally responsible for taxes as the middle class. I believe we can absolutely afford to cut military spending in the US.

>>722609881
not that guy but insulting someones grammar is not a valid argument.

>>722609492
I will concede this discussion, we agree on almost everything except minimum wage existing.

>>722609802
WOW ANOTHER CHERRY PICKED IRRELEVANT FACT.

please fucking enlighten yourself you asshole:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=CHERRY+PICKED

So this is where all the psycho trump supporters be hanging out.... on 4chan. Very interesting.

>>722609299
lol, found the pussy

btw when in the HELL will they make a carry licence for all blunt objects, since they kill way way more people than guns they clearly should be regulated. background check for hammers people THIS IS SIMPLE ITS 2017 MAN

>>722609911
>Tell that to the Russian serfs. Or to American miners in the 1800s. You're dangerously short sighted.

not even a little. those events spurred the creation of labor unions when people decided to NOT WORK till the problems were addressed.

>>722607662
>orangutan making decisions, if an orangutan starts chucking shit, you go omg somebody stop the shit monkey

And Y'all have the gall to call *Trump* the racist.,,

>>722609826
>Implying that's my side
>implying those people speak for, represent, and know the thoughts of all Trump supporters

>>722609885
I know you think you're being superior by recognizing idiots on either side but in doing so you contribute nothing unless you improve the quality of the conversation so go fuck yourself you smug cunt

>>722609702
>>722609812
You know full well whenever anyone thinks of successful economic powerhouses they are thinking of New York, California, Seattle, etc. They think Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Wall St. When they think of "economic backwater" they think of southern and mid western states. Even then, the only successful parts of those states are the big cities which are liberal islands in a sea of rural rednecks.

>what is it you actually believe?
Tbh I have no fucking idea what to believe anymore considering politics is basically just a burlap sack with a bunch of snakes tangled up inside of it, and all of them have had their organs replaced with cow shit. However, since it's a guised obligation that every citizen must stay informed and give a fuck about what happens in the white house, I have to say I am a firm believer in what the U.S constitution is supposed to stand for (the new one, to be more precise), and I also believe that acting as the "land of the free" does not involve disallowing an entire race of people to get on and airplane because of a bunch of religiously overzealous sandniggers who are the result of the actions of another pair fundamentalist idiots who were trying to achieve some economic miracle through obtaining some oil deposits outside U.S soil, and as a result, have dragged their entire race down with them. Meanwhile, some fucker on Insurgency just spewed some shit about how every U.S citizen is the equivalent of a corporate brand name because that was the result of our government making deals with british bankers, or some far-fetched but sensible bullshit like that (much appreciated if anyone can clarify if that is true or not). Regardless, with everything that's happened these past couple years, It's hard to tell what's reality anymore. The Media is such a fucking mess of a platform, that all anyone sees from important historical events is dollar signs. I'd go on, but this is already getting too long. In short, I'd like the government of my homeland to be just a little bit more honest with me before I can stand by a popular political opinion, but as far as I'm concerned, I won't support a president who deports innocent people for being in the same place as a bunch of ecclesiarchy-obsessed fucktards who drag their people down into the chaos.

>>722609945
well kudos for going out like a man. good debate m8.

take 3 minutes out of your life to listen to this for me, would ya?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk

let me know if it changes your mind about it.

>>722609474
Nope I didn't call anyone anything, I was just pointing out the fallacy in your argument.

Thank you for saying that I shouldn't post, trying to shut down an educated argument is one of the foundations of fascism. Just an FYI buddy, my granddad killed scum like you and I'm fully prepared to do the same if it comes down to that!

>>722609943
It is if he claims he's highly educated. Surely someone with immense and palpable education could know the difference unlike I, the supposedly lowly blue collar worker.

>>722609923
you have no idea what your going on about so i see no point to continuing this argument. time will prove me right.

>>722610095
They are the _only_ ones who speak. I'm not saying that all conservatives are uneducated, racist, poor people, but all uneducated, racist, poor people are conservatives. Some, I assume, are good people. But how come these so called "moderate conservatives" never do anything about their extremist peers? I often see videos of conservatives dancing in the street when unarmed black people are shot by police. I saw it on the internet.

>>722610215
>I can't refute anything you're saying so I'm going to stop talking.

gg, no re.

>>722610201
Woah we got a badarses over here erry body

>>722610130
Because powerhouses regularly end up on lists of most expensive places to live in the world a la NYC. You ought to know full and well that connotations don't always live up to reality.

>>722608646
I'm more concerned about all the *legals* in *high level* jobs that fill in the *empty spaces* left by *rednecks* who refuse to learn math.

And you know what? Based on the hateful stuff the average conservative says I'd rather have the Mexicans as company. At least they are grateful to be employed.

>you think it hurts jamal to get a job for $6 when he CANT for $9 or MORE

The fact that you can't even drop your racism to make an invalid argument is disappointing. Bro, yes, making the LOWEST POSSIBLE INCOME LOWER will fuck over whoever is on bottom. Likely your toothless cousins/wives/mothers. Sorry "Jamal" is such good competition.

>>722608682
That's the dreadful and feared REGULATION MONSTER OH NOOO!

>>722608809
They all learned to manage the most complex economic system on earth by failing at farming and playing high school football.

>>722608826
And if your primary identity is "white man" rather than "father" "professional" "American" or just about anything else, you are an utterly pathetic dolt.

>>722608890
Except Harlem is just fine. Also the poor white parts of the south are scary as fuck too.

>>722608914
I said education, not college. Maybe you could use some college, though.

>>722608928
Oh and the last 5 or so republican presidents didn't rack up debt?

>>722610130
(citation needed)

only reason cities are rich is they have lots of people.
wealth inequality in cities is depressing.
you take one metric, wealth of localities, and tout the economic wisdom that must be responsible when in reality big cities do better economically when they are RED. there goes your argument.

hey, dont worry about making an argument here, just call me a country bumkin who fucks his cousin, lot easier.

>>722609696
>I walked around a bad neighbourhood at 3 in the morning not scared
I've got news for you, you're the one that is scaring people!

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>>722610119
>tfw he does not realize how much ive contributed to the "discussion" (if you can call it that) till i got tired of the idiocy of it all

>>722604302
I believe our president shouldn't be a Russian cuck

>>722610421
>tfw he didn't read the part where I said "unless you improve the quality of the discussion"

>>722609912
Spreading unnecessary hate because it is well known that hate usually fix all problems and never leads to conflicts ....
And well aren't terrorist known for being people who spread fear and hate through horrible actions? ... It is kinda what you're doing (minus the ''horrible actions''), by saying what you said... So technically you are a kind of coward terrorist....should people expunge you too?

>trumpflakes say trump will fight against the elite
>trump is part of the elite
>a rich daddy's boy who used his dads millions to get where he is today
>now he's made USA Russia's bitch and reduced sanctions
>15% stake in Russian owned oil company was handed to an unnamed person the day trump was elected

Bruh be conservative/republican all you want, but trump is like any other snake, using his position for his benefit only.

>>722610174
Thank you for sharing Milton Friendman, it's always nice to hear one of his talks. I do find his logic sensible, and he does an excellent job of providing your viewpoint. Thank you, I understand what you've been trying to convey to me now.

I'm not sure if I would call myself a liberal after the post election protests and shit. Personally I respect the office of the presidency and I am going into President Trump's term with the same optimism I would with any president.

That said, I think the Muslim ban is the wrong direction. Our refugee system worked flawlessly beforehand. Re-evaluating any complicated government system is a good idea, however, this feels a lot more politically motivated than a routine checkup. I do acknowledge that the ban was constitutional though.

My core principals are that America has the potential to be the best country on earth. Right now, from an American perspective, it feels like living in Europe would offer me a higher standard of living. I'm very disappointed in our healthcare system, and our labor laws feel outdated. I support collective bargaining, and universal healthcare. I would like to one day have a modern healthcare system in America, but I do not have a lot of confidence in either party to make substantial changes to a deeply flawed industry.

I will probably continue to vote Democrat for most things, but the current state of the party has me deeply disturbed. I'm not sure that either party really truly has a platform I can get on board with.

All of that in mind I am kind of an sjw. Believe in white privilege and LGBTQIALPHABET rights.

For the record I was an O'Malley supporter, then a Bernie Bro, then a very reluctant Hildawg voter.

>>722609911
>You lost the war billy-joe.
>Maybe you are just still butthurt over the civil war Billy Joe.
are you stupid? why would you not leave it to the state? why would you TAKE AWAY FREEDOM when your don't have to?
people in cali won't want the laws of people in north dakota, they shouldn't have to. if it comes down to it conservatives win the legislative votes because we are spread out more geographically so maybe you should think twice before advocating more federal power you simple fuck.

>>722610201
Your "argument" was nothing more but a limp stereotype cast out to degrade your detractors as a cheap bid for legitimacy. Also you really need to learn what fascism is before you bring it up.

>>722610327
i can but there is no point, you will continue to hold onto your idiot ideas till thats all you have left to your name in the unemployment line. So im electing to be the bigger man here and walk away from a pointless "argument"... on the internet...

just please remember that you praised outsourcing of jobs when the time comes :)

>>722609973
The fact that the economy is a fucking gigaton better under liberal governments than the GOP?

Sorry what was your argument?

>>722610362
>I said education, not college. Maybe you could use some college, though.

>>722608457
>college tuition

Now listen here you little shit. You're arguing FOR diversity quotas. You want people to be judged based on the color of their skin and not on their aptitude. Not on their actual skills.

You want me to believe a person can decide they are whatever gender they want to be, and can change it any day of the week. But half of congress needs to "identify" female next thursday or else.

TRRUMP GOT CUCKED BY RUSSIAA HAHAAHAHAHA

>>722610479
>4chan
>quality

where the fuck do you think you are faggot?

>>722610215
I dismantled your post point by point and you quit the conversation. When you go to sleep tonight, remember that you weren't able to defend your beliefs and consider what that says about you.

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Republicans are really just big corporate representatives. Oil, gun and big corporations have agents pretending to be politicians that care about the population; republicans. How do we know this? Because people like Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz get a million dollar + salary from large corporations big oli and guns. America is an unfair plutocracy favouring the wealthy over everyone else, and coaxing it in language that appeals to retards. Don't listen to what they say, look at what they do.

Any sane person is against this yet it seems half of america is insane.

>>722610350
There are more of us that you think

>>722609911
>Hey man, maybe country bumpkins would have an easier time in the corporate world
ok do you understand that there is no corperate economy in bum-fuck, omaha?
there is farming and running the local diner. what are you even talking about?

>>722610304
If all racist, poor, and uneducated people are conservatives, then what do you make of impoverished white hating minorities voting democrat? And please, don't assume I'm white just because I insinuated minorities can be racist, I myself am minority.

>>722610669
>he can't distinguish between quality as a point on a spectrum and quality as referring to something at the top of that spectrum

ISHYGDDT

>>722610370
Cities are rich because high paying corporate jobs are created near education centers that produce employees from them.\

Cities, which dominate liberal states, have high concentrations of white collar work, attracting high skilled and ambitious workers in less advanced states. They also attract poor people because they have enough money to support them.

The wealth in rural conservative states tend to be agriculture or natural resource based economies. This doesn't need skilled labour and the wealth from these resources gets concentrated in a small percentage of the land and industry owners. Rural areas thus suffer a brain drain that keeps them in this state.

>>722610304
>some blackie breaks into my house
>cops come and shoots potential robber
>I would probably dance too

Assuming you didn't completely pull that anecdote out of your ass (which you likely did), surely you've got a source since you "saw it on the internet", right? Cmon man. Nobody's buying your bullshit.

>>722610705
I'm not the guy you replied to but I am in Omaha. We have a pretty good corporate economy. TD Ameritrade. Berkshire Hathaway. Union Pacific. We got some dope diners too though so I will give you that.

>>722610362
If you're worried about legals then STFU, Trump is after the parasites.

>>722610612
>I can but there is no point

Damage control so hard... Sure thing, sweetheart. We all believe you.

>>722610766
*Whoosh*

I always knew Trump supporters just blank out the stupid crap he says. This proves it.

>>722609016
>The issue is literally about a body which is not the persons

huh?

>Not even sure what this is. Too vague
I want people in allied countries to be able to work here and vice versa. I miss out on business opportunities since it's such a PITA to work abroad.

>We just had freedom of trade. the results were jobs abandoning the country

As they will continue to, since that involves external forces that go on whether or not the U.S likes it. Nothing stopping MS from hiring more Indians bro. Trump or not.

>getting that with trump
I fucking doubt it, unless you mean the dumbass wall.

>ironically not shown in recent months by the left

Really? Because I can think of a certain president who can't keep his mouth shut. Civil means professional. Acting like an adult. Trump acts like a coked out gym bro.

>Science based decision making.
Hate to break it to you but Trump is anti-vax and actively silencing our nations scientific organizations.

>top "climate scientists" cant even agree on what the problem is or how to fix it. And i put those words in quotes because 90% of them arent actually qualified to speak about the topics they are.

Stop building coal plants is a good start. Everyone agrees that the problem is carbon, so the conclusions are easy from here. The U.S has NOTHING to lose from investing in clean energy.

>we only have so much open coastline.... which is where they have to go
No, and even if that were the case we have fuck tons of coast line.

>disagree
-it costs money.
-hurts lives.
-wastes police time.
-you will never win.

>>722609242
As in not everyone *can* be ambitious, and those who are not should not be viciously punished when we can so easily afford not to.

>>722610758
>ISHYGDDT

fucking high schoolers and their acronyms. isnt it past your bed time?

>>722609911
>Agreed, but half of the American rednecks believe in some kind of magical timeline where they walk into a factory job out of high school and make a living wage. That would be a no-skill job, in my opinion. Because any asshole off the street could be trained to do it.
Congratulations, you are against the working class. You might as well be a Republican. That's exactly the kind of argument they use. Some people don't want to work hard or become very educated. Just spend a tiny amount of attention on them and they'll be happy to work 40+ hours a week doing whatever bullshit you tell them to do.

>>722610616
>The fact that the economy is a fucking gigaton better under liberal governments than the GOP?

except that is false.
where are the ghettos?
where is the "white flight"
where is the housing projects?

NOT REPUBLICAN CITIES. NOT ANY OF THEM!
yeah great track record, Detroit. impressive. Chicago. I would love to move to LA (after I kill myself).

>>722604302
globalization

I make money off it - so will everyone else if they use the wave to their advantage and stop acting like xenophobic idiots.

>>722610851

newfag detected. I was here long before you, child.

>>722610730
Just because someone votes democrat doesn't mean they are liberal. All racists are idiots. Some people are just unclassified idiots.

>>722610586
It wasn't me that used the trailer trash comments. I was only pointing out the fallacy in insulting someone's (shit) argument by denigrating a group of people.
I have a very good understanding of fascism thanks

>>722610532
dope glad to have a constructive conversation, on fucking /b/ of all places

>>722610851
HAHAHAHAHA newfag.

>>722610695
are you brain damaged?

>>722610860
Literally this. Democrats are strangling everything they touch. They're already nominating corporate shills as their heads after the huge election loss.

>>722610972
Tell me one thing inherently and specifically fascist.

>>722610362
>Oh and the last 5 or so republican presidents didn't rack up debt?

i will make this post again for you:
>>722609897
>WRONG. debt is made by CONGRESS not the president.
relating debt to president is STUPID. relate it to control of LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

>srsly this is BASIC shit.

>>722610730
Fuck off honkey

>economics
Supply side economics is stupid. Conservatives push it despite the fact that no credible economist has thought it was a good idea for decades because it benefits their corporate donors. A well educated population benefits the economy and enriches everyone. Banks and large corporations need to be regulated, and U.S. history makes the reasons clear as day.

>environmentalism
This isn't just about slowing large scale climate change, although that's a big part of it. It's also about things like national parks, preserving natural landscapes, protecting endangered animals, controlling the quality and the safety of the air and the water, and so on. Climate change is an existential threat to our species, and conservatives promote anti-science conspiracy theories for the benefit of large corporations.

>science and education
Universal access to good education is perhaps the single best thing you can do for the strength of a democracy, the strength of an economy, and the quality of a person's life. For-profit schools are extremely stupid. A school should have no motivation other than the welfare of its students. Conservatives want to privatize and defund schools and research universities, liberals want to do the opposite. Conservatives want to teach creationism in science classrooms and de-emphasize critical thinking skills that they see as likely to cause students to question authority. Conservatives think that the government should not be in the business of funding scientific research, but in the scheme of things funding scientific research is perhaps the single best thing that we can do for ourselves as a civilization. It pays off in the long run, and privatizing it doesn't work.

>>722611004
Hillary talks at Goldman Sachs - Corporate Shrill

Trump appoints ex Goldman Sachs veteran to head the Treasury and has multiple GS veterans on staff - Draining the swamp.

You people are so god damn stupid. I'm not gonna say to red pill yourself because those people are equally stupid. Take like an afternoon and step back and think about both party's perspectives. Think about how Americans around the country feel when you call them a racist, or faggot. If you put yourself at one end of the spectrum, left or right, you are a cancer and you should do us a favor by killing yourself. I mean that sincerely. Please kill yourself.

>>722610850
>Stop building coal plants is a good start.
Stop using electricity.

>>722610999
you're on the retard side I see

>>722611185
>civil rights and foreign policy
I don't think either side has a good track record in these areas. Both sides engage in fear mongering and war mongering. Both sides largely support authoritarian policies and include elements that oppose those policies. Generally speaking, though, it's my observation that conservatives are worse about these things (PATRIOT Act, War on Terror, etc.)

>criminal justice
For-profit prisons are a really, really stupid idea, as is the "war on drugs". The death penalty would be fine if the judicial system never made mistakes, but such a judicial system is impossible. If you think that innocent people are never convicted of crimes you are an idiot. If you think that occasionally having an innocent person murdered by the state is a reasonable price to pay for saving some tax money on keeping criminals in prison, you are a bad person. If you think that the state should be in the business of exacting revenge on your behalf, you are both a bad person and an idiot.

I could go on, but the thread's about to die.

>>722611195

You are a fuckin' moron, Snowflake.

File: 138939145469.jpg (65KB, 640x621px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 640x621px

>>722610695
OP here, just kind of watching the conversation at this point since people keep devolving into name-calling (on both sides honestly). Last post I made was
>>722609450
here

But I just have to say you're really, really oversimplifying Republicans. I could find just as many contributions on the left from the same lobbies so you defining the party as "just" that stuff is kind of ridiculous. You're entire argument, from your own post, seems to be "it's unfair" but the fact is nobody said life is fair or that you're entitled to it to be fair. We do the best with what we have and, no, I'm not some rich asshole but you can't just say "hurrr half the country's insane or stupid" any more than it would be fair for me to say the same about all democrats. Notice I haven't done that and actually asked for you to explain yourself. I live in one of the largest cities in America, I made just into the 6 figures and I have a 4 year degree. It's pretty ignorant of you to just keep falling back on

>hurr durr rednecks
>hurr durr cletus
>hurr durr billy joe

All because someone disagrees with you. I have yet to call you a snowflake even though, based on your "it's not fair" mentality, I should have every right to. But I haven't. Think about that for a minute.

>>722610860
Cherry picking is not the sum of.
There are winners and loosers, looks like you are a looser?

>>722609450
> have no problem with this as a Republican, what I don't support is using a "pride" parade as an excuse for guys to walk around in assless chaps and dildos hanging off of them in public where old people and children are present.

Then don't look. If you haven't noticed these tend to happen in historically gay neighborhoods anyway. And get over your fear of the human body.

> it will benefit our own then that's what we should do. Our country first. That's the basis of all trade.

Unless you absolutely cannot live without your allies, which is absolutely the situation we are in.

>This is vague, but if you're talking about companies moving....

Freedom for workers to cross international borders and work without having to become citizens. It makes it very fucking hard to do business abroad and vice versa. Do you know what it takes for me to be able to make a single English pound while living there?

>I don't respect anyone on any level based on the color of their skin or their heritage.

What you don't mention is the organized groups who hunt out and abuse minorities. Those laws are to discourage people from making things like "the club of Americans who like to beat up Arabs" or some such. I wish I could say that wasn't actually a problem. And you know what? I honestly think you could use the anti-hate crime laws if someone committed a crime out of "white hate"

>I'm in favor of a flat tax. Everybody pay the same amount until everybody's paying something stop trying to focus on the "rich." Who's to say what's fair or not? Everyone has a different definition.

Because you have to actively leech away the wealth of the richest citizens lest they become oligarchs. The only thing that keeps bill gates from literally controlling the economy of the United States over time is taxes.

>>722610853
>>722609911
To add onto this: You want the working class whites to learn new skills or move their families under their own power, without any help. But they are really easy to please. They basically don't give a fuck about anything and will do whatever dumb job you give them.

But you won't even give them a job. You won't help them move. You won't help them learn a new skill. So surprise, the dumb working class is upset! Fucking retard.

>>722610992
I can swallow my pride and cease an argument. I don't care about winning, it's the exchange of information and ideas that is important to me. I probably sound pretentious as fuck, but I truly believe that.

>>722610765
right but fundamentally they are rich because they have a lot of people.
there are plenty of small towns with white collar economies.

>>722611267
One day a conservative will use actual facts in a debate instead of just yelling insults as a counterpoint and peoples' heads will explode.

>>722611362
>I probably sound pretentious as fuck
not at all. i feel the same way.

The trump supporters that call just anyone a fag. At least use the fucking term correctly. Shows how uneducated you dipshits are

>>722611074
Contempt for the weak

>>722607598
oh please, tell me you are not from france LOL the only funnier thing than an american nationalist is a idiotic proud and poshy français

>>722611195
Listen, Trump may very well be the same. He doesn't seem to be yet though. But why would Trump turning out to be shit be some ringing endorsement of the Democrats?

>Well the Democrats are only doing the same things as Trump so vote for us.
Fucking get out of here with that shit.

>>722610796
right but when i think country bumkins i think small farming towns. big cities are generally well educated.

>>722604833
Neoliberalism (The SJW breeding ground, not actual liberalism in its intended purpose) is nothing more then people waving their dicks at eachother

Instead of dicksize what matters is progressiveness, specifically how much of yourself youre willing to sacrifice for it (White people taking White privilege seriously is An example) which ironically goes against what actual Liberalism is, which is free choice of lifestyle for all, not shaming others into accepting other peoples lifestyles or purging All criticism on minority cultures

>>722611267
Oh sweetie, did the bad man make you cry?

>>722611467
Too broad, any authoritian of any political leaning could have that belief. Give me something more palpable, E.G. economics or core beliefs.

>>722611284
oh im sorry i replied to a COMPLETE NON ARGUMENT with at least something, although not bullet proof, made a point which you dismiss over:
>The fact that the economy is a fucking gigaton better under liberal governments than the GOP?

a simple statement with no backup? fuck that. make a counter argument or fuck off.

>>722611509
This is the true and should be final words to close this thread

>>722611502
Omaha isn't a small farming town either. Metro area of nearly a million. Not exactly a big city, but roughly the same size as Albuquerque. If you would like to continue to use Nebraska towns I would recommend saying maybe Blair, Nebraska or Fremont.

>>722611681
oh you know what i mean Nebraska, not Omaha. i guess i am just a stupid country bumkin after all.

>>722611509
That might be true of many liberals, but your generalization caricatures the opposition for you at the cost of oversimplification. You owe it to yourself to take a more nuanced view of the people you disagree with and try to understand the ideological underpinnings of that which you criticize instead of erecting straw men to mock.

If you're really interested in seeking truth, treat each person you disagree with as intelligent and logically sound, and engage them at a high level.

>>722611509
Here here

>>722611766
Yeah I guess so. TBH I work for the visitors center in Omaha. The whole Omaha is a small town thing is a stereotype we try to dispel.

>>722611271
You're not a rich asshole and you're making 6 figures?

Half of Americans can't come up with $400 in an emergency

The 1 % is something like making over $100,000 a year which sounds like way too low, but barely anyone gets over that.

Yes I agree the democrats are paid shills too and I am against them too, but republicans are far more dedicated to the cause. Pollution, low wages, stripping back rights, privatising and overcharging basic services, education and healthcare; republicans.

People were mesmerised by Trump now your hangover's going to last 4 years.