How old were you Anon when you grew out of libertarianism?

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>>722232043

>>722232043
Bring on Thunder dome bitch! I'm ready!

>>722232043
Let's all have a serious argument about political philosophy using fictional examples!

>>722232043

I haven't and I won't. Regardless of the outcome, it's fundamentally wrong to tax rape people and not give them an opt out.

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>>722233037
>Resourced starved post-apocalyptic anarchy...
from libertarianism.

>Post scarcity world...
realized from socialism.

what if you're a libertarian socialist who believes in collectively run syndicates that promote the welfare of the worker

>>722232043
>shit that doesn't exist

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>>722233206
lmao right? its probably just another one of those weird underground hillary bots that trolls 4chan trying to change opinions and views of the dumb fuck readers.

>>722233037
+1000

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>>722233299
When ur hillary levels are low

>>722233299
>from libertarianism.
No, mad max world is literally our world after nuclear apocalypse.

>realized from socialism.
again wrong, they were capitalist as fuck, earth went socialist when they went post-scarcity
It;s easy to be socialist when money does not matter

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>>722232043
>2000 +17
>depending on government

you have a lot of disappointment ahead of you kid

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>>722233185
I 100% support thunderdomes.

>>722233206
>serious argument
>political philosophy
>/b/
derpFace.png

>>722233229
Honestly, neither approach realized to its maximum extent meshes well; socialism goes against the "fairest for the individual" primal inclinations we have and libertarianism against "best for society as a whole" approach needed to advance society at a good clip.

I'd argue Libertarian freedoms ought to operate in a socialistic domain though. You can opt out though: move. It's logistically impossible to allow someone to remove themselves from taxation while disallowing them every benefit of being in a socialistic society.

>>722232043

It isn't about technology and shit. It's about human beings personal freedom. Freedom produces happiness to all animals including humans. Libertarianist world would be world where humans would be happiest. Also nature and animals would be happiest. It wouldn't be cyber punk but it wouls be happy world.

>>722233391
you can be a libertarian but only if you believe that wealth should be redistributed evenly

otherwise, you believe in capitalism

>>722232043
Why would I do that?

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>>722232043
>>722233037
>>722233299
>>722233794

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>>722233816
What the fuck are you on about, mate?

>>722233861
Why?

>>722233894
I dunno.

>>722233861
I dont think you understand what libertarian means

>>722232043
I outgrew libertarianism when I realized that being pissed you didn't formally sign a social contract is immature.

Yeah I didn't chose my government. But fuck if I'm going to live anywhere else now that I have the choice

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>>722234063
capitalism is oppression
if yo support oppression then you can't be a libertarian

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>>722234063
LOL i hope u get raped by ur gfs bull socialist scum.

>>722234331
>>722234519
The problem with comunism and socialism is that they expect people to actually make an honest living, behave, and not exploit imperfections in the system to their own benefit, which unfortunately isn't the case with humans

>>722232043
The ironic part about this meme is that privatized space travel companies will get us closer to a star fleet than any government funded space program could hope to do.

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>>722234519

>>722232043
Didn't the Federation leave millions of it's citizens stranded in Dominion space?

>>722233738
I'm a 31-year old environmental chemist for a private consulting firm. I don't "depend" on the government more than anyone else.

>>722234950
humans need to abandon greed in order to fully embrace socialism

businesses act on the profit motive
governments do not need a profit

>>722235086
Orly?

>>722235101
Cardassian. That's why they created the Maquis. A group of disenfranchised Federation citizens living in now-recognized Cardassian space. Shit was cash, yo.

>>722234874

This. I'm pretty libertarian myself. Socially center-left and economically right. Socialism and other leftist economies favor failure.

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>>722235219
you depend on government to solve societies problems

how naive

>>722234950
This.

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>>722234950
This.

It's to my greatest heart desire that a socialist world would be achieved during my lifetime.

But people are too stupid to even know that the whole premise of socialism revolves arount that everybody do their part into raising the best society ever.

I personally blame Soros and the Rothschild, but people are stupid enough to wreck havoc themselves without them pulling any strings.

>I don't understand the full extent of what libertarian means

Libertarian isn't An-Cap

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socialism is the only way society can progress
not by greedy capitalists

Give me one good reason why socialism, aka communism, is good for me as an individual in a resource-limited world.
Protip: you can't.

>the only choices are socialism and libertarianism

Sure is college freshman in here.

>>722235637
post scarcity

>>722235358
Not him, but yeah, really.

Haven't you look into the history or modern water supply system?

All the great advances in technology are made in times of war or for specials gains during scarcity times.

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>>722235599
>socialism
>progress
>pick one and only one

>>722235407
It's true that part of the money we get is publically funded (oyster restoration in Florida righr now), but most of our work comes from private firms and multinational NGOs. To an extent, we're all depending on the government. I'm depending on them to protect the security of its citizens from foreign and domestic threats; I'm depending on the government to enact sensible monetary policy to my dollar doesn't go all Zimbabwe; I'm depending on the government to fund ICANN so we can bullshit on 4chan. Don't act like you're 100% on your own. You're depending on the government for all of that shit and more top, simple child.

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>>722232043

Sorry to see you're still too young and inexperienced to realize that socialism is just shit.

>>722235599
>Protip: College won't really be "Free", taxpayers will pay it

>>722235730
Elaborate

>>722235814
LOL nope

i save in silver
i bought when it was 5 dollars an ounce

>>722232043
If everybody gets the same, whats the point of working hard? Im going to work hard so that part of what I earn can be given to Shiquay-Quay and her Nigtuplets who can't work because "The system be racist!"

Nah son. The weak should suffer and die, and the strong must inherit this earth.

>>722235869
See:
>>722233794

>>722235926
i'm not here to spoon feed yo shit lord

>>722234079
this

Libertarianism is a governmental system, socialism is economic.

>>722235599
Yes we all know what Iran would have looked like under Bernie. Prefer Trump tbh

>>722232043
Socialism won't work with the mindset of current humans, it will only work in a society that understands bettering oneself and humanity as a whole is more important than personal comfort and gain

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OP is right, socialism is so good, the greedy capitalist pigs build a wall to stop their slaves escaping to the workers paradise in east berlin

16

>>722235637
Because they are not the same?

In theory socialism has a government strong enough that people don't take advantage of other people and a great part of the income of everyone will be destined to generate more resources.

But since that's agaisnt our own natures and niggers be niggin, in the practice capitalism is the answer.

>>722235407
Not in libertarian socialism. The people are the government. To not work and not participate in government is to die.

>>722236053
No just give vague non-applicable responses and feel superior for your nonsense. Thank god you're here for SOMETHING

>>722234079

It's another word for "retarded"

>>722236053
>I cannot explain my position
Because you never had one
It's how you can tell a person acting on facts and truth: they can explain anything you ask them. And those that aren't, can't.

>>722232043
The current system is perfect if you ask me.
It's not as fucked up as in niggerland yet it's not totally oppressive.
I don't see why regular people have such a hardon for archaic political and economic ideas.

>>722235972
100% agree. I'm not for unbridled socialism. Even in the "utopian" world of Star Trek, there is a society based on meritocracy which determines the allocation of resources. I simply feel there should be more of a social safety net, raising the floor so to speak. I don't agree, nor would most "socialists," with the 100% taxation example in which you sort of ellude to.

>>722235969
Also what I wrote up there.

>>722236258
Long have I felt this exact phrase and never been able to properly articulate it. Thanks.

>>722233299
>realized from socialism.
actually it was just from some aliens landing on earth. even in the fascist universe humanity reaches that technological level at the same time. faster in fact, because they were willing to kill for it

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>>722232043
Socialism in its current incarnation promoted by the Soros globalist crew will lead to global depopulation, it will be a beautiful transhumanist society for the elite, everyone else will experience a utopian nightmare.

>>722236216
>To not work and not participate in government is to die
>libertarians

LOL
libertarians are so stupid!

Socialists fear darwinists

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>>722236168
Right. Because I can't possibly think of an example with walls and capitalism failing large swaths of society, too. Tool.

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>>722235599

>>722232043
communism doesnt work. It never had

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>>722232043
Socialism is future.
Do not forget universal healthcare system. Everyone gets their vitamin C and D.

>>722236464
>walls to stop people from getting in
vs
>walls to stop your citizens from escaping

You do not really know what you are talking right?

>>722236302
Did you miss the part where I implied poor, weak people who are non working parasites should suffer and die to help strengthen the blood that pumps through mankind? Because poor, weak people who are non working parasites should suffer and die to help strengthen the blood that pumps through mankind

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>>722236216
>To not work and not participate in government is to die
>Liberty bitch!

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>>722236542
bernie is a closet communist

>>722235358
Yes really. Privatized space travel doesn't depend on the whims of politicians for funding. It controls its own destiny. Did you have a counterpoint? Maybe that sensible chuckle meme or something?

>>722236554
a lot of people also get their lead shots, directly to back of their skulls

>>722236554
that looks classy as fuck. and i bet the rent is reasonable.

>>722236464
slums exist because people breed too much and governments are too weak to control it's people

has nothing to do with capitalism

>>722236258
>>722236395
Simply put into normie terms:

If you can't say it in a few word, you don't understand it.

>>722236779
Id be surprised if there was garbage collection or running water, though

>>722236464
>out of control breeding by the poor
>governments fault

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>>722236683
>closet

>>722236464
That photo shows one difference between corrupt South American political system and Western one.
In USA there are favelas like left, when niggers live.
And there is also higher class apartments like right.

But there are one difference- theres no wall between them. There are fields of suburban middle class housing.

Middle class. You know- the majority. Living like civilized human. That's what capitalism is about. Decent living for maximum possible amount of people.

>>722235756
now, instead of cherrypicking ex-communist soviet countries in the immediate aftermath of the collapse of communism, lets try the same again, with actual democratic socialists, say, Sweden, France, Norway, Denmark, and the Netherlands, shall we?

>>722236833
You didnt say anything of value though. You just gave a vague response and then capped off with your bullshit when you were called out because you dont actually have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

>>722236432
No. None of these nigger gibs me dats types get free rides in libertarian socialism. Either you work, or you don't get the benefits of free housing, free food, free education, and whatever else the people decide should be distributed.

>>722236833
Actually it was Eisenstein who sort of coined that in that if a scientific theory cannot be explained in a way that a 5 year old could understand then it has no value.

>>722236779
There's running water down the walls when it rains, if you ask.

>>722233596
>No, mad max world is literally our world after nuclear apocalypse.
guess who'll need to the 2 first movie again to understand what's mad max world.

>>722237053
>Either you work, or you don't get the benefits of free housing, free food, free education

housing, food, educations should be human rights
i need these things to live
i shouldn't have to work for my rights

you sound just like a capitalist

have to ever heard of wage slavery? what you are advocating is basically the same thing

>>722235599
Ignorant.

>>722237270
Mad Max is our world after communism.

>>722236991
I'm none of them stupid fuck. Don't even know if it was the same fucker.

Their point was right and you didn't even defended your stance.

Socialism is an utopic system that would get rid of most of the world problems. Capitalism stays strong because niggers and whitetrash.

Didn't you read the thread? Pretty much everybody is asking why is comunism wrong to which pretty much nobody had answered, and the truth is that in concept is not wrong and it would be cool not having to worry about money ever again.

But the government will have you slaved for the rest of your life and some people will rage because they are forced to work.

>Libertarianism
Portrayed as an awesome, action-filled gun-and-car fest

>Socialism
Portrayed as space politics and awkward 60's action scenes

Which one wins?

From ages 18-21

>>722237270
I'm not the anon you asked but, is English a second language for you?

>>722237270
>Mad Max: Fury Road

>Plot
>With supplies of petroleum nearly exhausted in the near future following a major energy crisis and a global nuclear war, ex-Main Force Patrol officer "Mad" Max Rockatansky (Mel Gibson) roams the now-depopulated and desolate desert in his scarred, black supercharged V-8 Pursuit Special several years after the events of the first film, scavenging for food, water, and fuel. His only companions are an Australian Cattle Dog and a rare functioning firearm – a sawn-off shotgun – for which ammunition is very scarce.

>near future following a major energy crisis and a global nuclear war
>

>>722235470
But people are too stupid to even know that the whole premise of socialism revolves arount that everybody do their part into raising the best society ever.

The base impulses of humans is to be lazy and greedy, thus this shit is a pipe dream.

the idea of personal property is a cancer that brings out the worst traits in people.

>>722237212
13/10
Would marry

>>722235756
>Austria and Italy fucked in World War 2
>still ahead of socialist countries
LOL

>>722232043
how come socialist societies actually look like worse shit holes than an africans actual shit hole?

>>722237454
No. Why should the person who doesn't contribute to the common good be entitled to those that do? Why does someone who actively chooses not to contribute deserve anything?

>>722237454
>housing, food, educations should be human rights
lol wut
I agree basic education should be completely free for tax-paying citizens, but your lazy ass should earn the other stuff yourself

>>722237490
You think Im a bunch of different people, I've only posted twice prior to this. Neither of which was me taking a stance on anything other than "If your knee jerk response to questioning is "Im not here to explain it to you," then you probably cant explain it because dont actually know what you're talking about."

>>722235094
>implying we won't kill

>>722237591
>>Mad Max: Fury Road
>copy past something from internet without knowing how it started. Without watching it, he can say it's the way he have read it. It's not like they ever mentioned the world "nuclear" once in the 4 movies

>>722237802
>>722237454
I would like to add that I'm a strict libertarian socialist. The state should be decentralized and the workers should constitute smaller micro-states in their entirety. All things voted on by the working class, not those who actively choose not to work.

>>722237454
if you get free food, housing, eductaion

why you work at all?

and if everone gets free food and housing, WHI ARE GUNA PAY FOR it?

>>722237490
>But the government will have you slaved for the rest of your life and some people will rage because they are forced to work

Now that's a fucked up way of thinking.
You take part in modern societies and give up some of your freedom to get protection.
You can stop working and go live in the wilderness and be completely free,but you're fucked if you get hurt etc.

>>722238041
so if i don't work then i cant vote

dude....
even now unemployed people can vote
now you are just suppressing my right to vote

i think you're just a shitty troll
goodbye troll

>>722232043
it was 6 years ago, i was 24. It comes gradually when you start living in the real world, on your own.

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>>722234950
Well it has always been those in power that set the example for the people to follow in exploiting the system. Most common people do honestly earn their living. The whole idea of having a Utopian Society is an opium induced dream.
>>722235246
But those in government do make a profit, in any of the political systems. There never will be a perfect political system in this world, even without money, because power over others would be the medium of exchange, and the thing that people would go after. Much like it is now.

>>722238103
Exactly. People have to work. If you don't work, you don't get shit.

>>722238103
Personally I'd get a job just to buy drugs on the side, unless alcohol and tobacco are free too. Then fuck it.

>>722238274
>If you don't work, you don't get shit.

then you're a just a stupid capitalist

>>722238223
No. Why should the individual actively choosing not to contribute aid in the dictation of legislation for those that do? That's simply not feasible.

>>722238041
Yugoslavia had something similar,but it still needed a strong and ruthless government to keep everyone in line.If you want a system to work,you need to have a central authority controlling it with an iron fist.

>>722238378
No, because wages should be abolished and the means of production should be owned collectively by the WORKERS. That is to say, those that work.

>>722235901
And then those who got their free college will complain about having to pay high taxes.

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>>722238433
>No. Why should the individual actively choosing not to contribute aid in the dictation of legislation for those that do? That's simply not feasible.

unemployed people have the right to vote dumbass
NEETs are allowed to vote

FUCK YOU!

>>722238526
Like bees, termites and ants.

>>722238378

Lazy, useless fuck! Get your fat ass out of your mother's house and get a fucking job!

>>722237454
Really spot on.

Also, human rights is bullshit given that you can't kill someone that is confirmed and proven to be detrimental to the society.

The problem is that some stupid dumbfucks had to kill someone because they didn't like them and had to plant evidence so they could get wreck'd.

>>722237647
Agreed. Let's begin the dismantling of personal property by redistributing your spare kidney and eyeball for those in need.

>>722238655
They shouldn't. Should we allow the mentally ill and disabled to vote too?

>>722238526

You stupid shit! It NEVER works that way! Look at China, NK, Cuba!

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>>722232043
7 years old, dear comrade.

>>722238823
doesnt matter if we should, they do vote, and they're the majority. look at yourself and the other faggots in this board

>>722238526
you can't "own" the means of production only to the workers

it belongs to all humans

you're just like a capitalist
you believe some people should not have wealth

i believe ALL people should have a basic level of wealth

>>722238828
The failure of such states is the ideal that the state should be centralized. Large centralized states are a failure and always will be. Local level administration is the only answer, and is able to work with communism.

>>722232043
This guy is fucking stupid. He hasn't realised that the society we have today is the creation of liberalism, while shitplaces like Congo are the creations of socialism, communism and aberrations of marxism.

>>722236554
I so want to go to Cuba to score some old US cars cheap. Other than that forget it.

>>722238949
So how exactly is the means of production owned by an individual that does not take part in the means of production. In your hypothetical, Joe Blow and his non-working cohorts may vote to destroy a local factory. Let's say his coalition is the majority in a district. The majority rules, so the factory is destroyed.

You think this is good, yes?

>>722238155
Being there, done that.

Lived in the wilderness for 3 months, running away from debt though. But it was a surprisingly illuminating experience.

And it's totally true, if you get fucked in the wild you are same as dead which made me come back and pay my shit up... after a couple years but can't complain now.

>>722235470
A completely socialistic world will never be accomplished. Humans nature denies it. It requires people to not be greedy, to want to be the same and not unique and takes a lot of things away. It can only be described as an utopian ideal not worth striding for.

>>722238013
>All pictures in the thread are from MMoTFR
>for some retarded reason pulls earlier movies into this
>thinks that knows better then the people that actually wrote and filmed it

>>722238949
also please see "dictatorship of the proletariat" it's a Marxist term that refers to political power held by the workers, and the workers only, adopted and accepted by Marx

>>722239340
people should have the right to a basic level of wealth and not be forced into working
that's slavery!

Listen here all you lazy fat first world whiny bitches, ANY and EVERY human being needs clean air and water, a house and food, along with education. WHATEVER YOUR BELIEVES ARE, they come second. Can we give that to everybody in the world now adays? Yes, with the tech we have we can easily do this for everybody. But some greedy assholes have to own eveything to feel superior, so this might probably never happen and the world as we know it will come to great grief when the enviorment goes to shit because of this infinite consumption paradigm. We could as a world society automate most jobs, reduce inneficient design and waste, have less stupid ass jobs nobody needs or wants, but some of you shitty human beings can't stand the thought of empathy and brotherhood.

>>722238695
But they are slaves and don't own shit. I can't even remember if they are self-aware.

They have great societies though.

>>722239626
Whence derives motivation to work

>>722232043
About 15.

>>722239724
there is no need to work for a basic level of wealth
like a house, car, food, water, etc..

>>722233185

Two men enter, one man leaves!

You need to be a man first though, Anon.

>>722239842
So where do these goods come from

>>722238777
>What is biotechnology?
There are a huge load of useful projects and research that never get funds or any help at all because "Muh morals".

This has to do with equity because?

>>722239896
advanced technology and science

>>722236464

All politics aside the balcony pools are cool as fuck.

>>722237454
No your only right is to go as far, and acquire as much as your work, and labors will take you.
People now seem to think people are born with an entitlement to things. Things or having them is not a right.
Good bait.

>>722240030
So you're a proponent of the "mechanize all labor" ideology

>>722238823
>Should we allow the mentally ill and disabled to vote too?

We do, that's why there is a Republican party.

>>722240087
>your
lol

>No your only right is to go as far, and acquire as much as your work, and labors will take you.
you may not realize that you are a capitalist, but you are

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So, everybody got butthurt mad?

This explains why religion and socieconomics are prohibited discussion on the workplace.

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>>722232043
Cute maymays. Menwhile in the real world...

I am not butthurt nor mad. Apparently the socialist kiddies are though.

>>722241677
I'm socialist at heart but came to realize it's not possible because of niggers, whitetrash and other subhumans.

Kek loves you.

>>722236216
>To not work and not participate in government is to die

I participate in government handouts so i don't have to work. Life is good.

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Libertarianism is just juvenile, that's all there is to it.

The libertarian who insists that the state has no place beyond basic night-watchman duties is like a teenager who, having been given a car, promptly starts demanding the right to stay out all night. Sometimes, someone else really is looking out for your best interests by saying no. (This isn’t to say the state is looking out for the best interests of everybody, or even most people. The point is just that, however Glenn Beck might hyperventilate, the government doesn’t want to destroy the market. It wants to preserve it, and it does this job better than the market can on its own.)

And that’s why the best rap on libertarians isn’t that they’re racist, or selfish. (Though some of them are those things, and their beliefs encourage both bad behaviors, even if accidentally.) It’s that they’re thoroughly out of touch with reality. It’s a worldview that prospers only so long as nobody tries it, and is too unreflective and self-absorbed to realize this. In other words, it’s bratty. And that’s bad enough.

Libertarianism is juvenile.

>>722232043

Libertarianism wouldn't be awful if you had both an ethnostate and an absence of a welfare state.

NatSoc is the way to go, though.

>>722236896
underrated post

>i din git muh free contraception! dem 8 babies just came outta me one day!

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>>722242057
Fapping your sexual urges away isn't a nigger thing apparently.

>>722241963
libertarians are so stupid to depend on only themselves instead of the government lol

build your own road lmao!

>>722233391
Then you're a fucking stupid faggot

>>722235756
You don't need a lot of money when a loaf of bread (if you can find one) still costs a nickel.

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Idiots dealing with socialism OR libertarianism. In a real world the optimal solution of course will be in the middle.

Britfag here. We have free health care under the NHS that costs about a third per head as the ridiculous American system. Having everyone insured by default results in hugely reduced administration and an efficient centralised system benefitting from the economy of scale.

INTELLIGENT socialism is the answer. The advantage of government run public services is that they can reinvest profit for the benefit for the consumer, wheras in the private sector, the demand for profit results in increased costs due to risk and the need for profit.

Public companies without the risk and demand for profit can operate inefficiently, but I don't view that as a flaw of "socialism", but rather the execution. Huge progress has been made in this regard already.


HOWEVER too much socialism/ equality of outcome (aka communism) results in little incentive for personal development and hard work, and an inefficiently run economy with fewer personal freedoms. There has to be a personal incentive to go out, work hard, invent, prosper and as a result be able to live a better life (in whatever criteria) than their peers who don't.

>>722236272
Because it's not, you fucking ignoramus.

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>>722236428
>utopian nightmare
>utopian

>>722232043
socialist societies can't even EXIST for three generations they are inherently so unsound unstable and unproductive socialism also leads directly into fascism, communism, and totalitarianism dictatorships. not knowing that means you aren't mature intelligent or educated enough to have an opinion. go back to your ANTIFA protests with the other unemployed kiddies living with mom demanding we elect the retard who promises you the most welfare money someone else worked for.

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>>722243155
>being this naive

lol

>>722242617
Struggling to work out where that is

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>>722241963
Are you retarded ,

I'm not even making a joke here. I'm worried about you, are you ok?

>>722232043
24 or so

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>>722243155
>ignoramus

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>>722242949
>INTELLIGENT
>socialism

pick one

>>722235599
none of bernies ideas are financially structured to last more than 10 years. We can't fund ANYTHING he wants to do, even if we seize ALL THE MONEY AND ASSETS OF EVERY AMERICAN EARNING A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR OR MORE

>>722243517
all you have to do is tax the rich

that's it
easy solution

>>722243610
Until *you* become rich, you mean.
Then it's every man for himself.

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>>722243321
I could get in to the various reasons the USSR experiment failed (and how US Capitalists were directly responsible) but there's really no point.

>>722243478
>>722243510
>>>/pol/ is that-a-way, fucktard.

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>>722243610
You dense commie fuck thats not how it works

You have to tax EVERYONE not just the rich

>>722237212
makes me so fucking hard.

>>722233299
This

Capitalism inhibits technological growth by prioritizing profits over efficiency and innovation. Socialist governments have the best scientific advancement.

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>>722243814
>I could get in to the various reasons the USSR experiment failed (and how US Capitalists were directly responsible) but there's really no point.

my sides
I cant breath send help

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>>722243814
/pol/ is for inbred neckbeards ho can't take responsibility for their failure, so they plame ze Jews.
Kinda like socialists, but replacing "Jews" with "the rich".

>>722232043
I consider myself to be a left libertarian or "libertarian socialist"... So, yeah

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>>722244088
Beautiful

>>722244108
>What is "oxymoron"

>>722244108
what is the government's role in society?

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>>722232043
Fuck of Ahmed or Mohammed.

>>722235599
>>722243882

this

Amusingly enough, the people that promote socialism always assume they will be one of the paper pushing higher ups, not the guy who's working in a fucking coal mine 12 hours a day for the betterment of his society.

>>722244204
>>722244186

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

>>722241963
It's a good ideological starting point, but not always pragmatic. Can individuals acting according to their own rational self interest solve this problem? If not, then get the government involved. It's basically the political equivalent of the Hippocratic oath.

>>722243321
>>722243478
Not him but it's not. Sanders is much more of a Nordic social democracy than the USSR or Mao. These things are not as simple as you think they are. The way an entire nation can run varies massively, and these labels are not sufficient to describe them really in any meaningful way.

>>722243815
If you taxed the rich at the same rate that everyone else is taxed, then we could pay for any kind of program we ever dream up.
Do you realize how much money our tax system doesn't get because of loopholes and off shore banking? I mean fuck, Trump hasn't paid a single goddamned cent and he's a billionaire.

>>722244381
That didn't answer my question

Do you have any beliefs or do you just want something to identify as?

WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S ROLE IN SOCIETY?

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We need some moderated capitalism, after that, we can go right on most things

Quality Culture should be preserved and praised, nowadays any shit can sell as long as there some retard to buy, thanks to the leftist culture of ''Everything is culture, and you can't change this, everything is subjective, if you don't like it, don't hate'' and thats why we have abominations like Minecraft books taking spots of possible good writers

>tfw shit libertarian society capitalist indulged just shits on its antecessors' values, morals and culture

>>722244381
>What is "Anarchism"

>>722244186
Not an oxymoron. In fact, the term "libertarian" was first used by a French anarcho-communist back in 1857 to describe himself (an anarchist). The modern term libertarianism (economic freedoms) was originally called liberalism. The term "libertarian" describes liberty (thus, the term is also used to describe metaphysical liberty within philosophy and metaphysics), and the term socialism describes a society in which wealth is fairly distributed. Thus, it is neither a literal nor a practical contradiction.

A libertarian socialist would argue that a society based on such huge disparities of wealth is unfree. If you wish to enter into employment, you choose first and take orders later (as with liberal democracy). Libertarian socialists believe in voluntary association and economic democracy. This will allow the individual to reach his/her full potential.

The most famous example of successful libertarian socialism is the anarcho-syndicalist experiment in Spain during to Spanish Civil War, which was eventually destroyed by Communists and Fascists (see Orwell' "Homage to Catalonia" for excellent first hand reportage of this). At its peak, the anarchist union (CNT) had one million members.

Although sharing much of (if not all of) the Marxist analysis of capitalism, lib socialists vehemently oppose state socialism, especially the authoritarian socialism of Lenin, Trotsky, Mao and, more recently, the socialism of Hugo Chavez. The modern dispute between the two schools of socialism began in the First International, in which Karl Marx and Mikhail Bakunin bitterly argued over the road socialists should take. This dispute has continued ever since, with many Marxist regimes imprisoning, murdering (Russia), and exiling (Cuba) anarchists.

>>722243366

The Korean peninsula.

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>>722243321
>>722236272

Idiots like to be able to describe massively complex things in single words. Makes it easier to avoid thought when slinging assumptions.

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>>722243815
That's not how tax works you fucking retarded ass-licking sycophant fuck

Shut the fuck up and let me educate your pathetic fucking ass:

Most Americans recirculate their income within a month or two, taxing that level of income is DETRIMENTAL to the economy because the government cannot spend it as efficiently as local utilities, food, housing, etc.

Rich motherfuckers REMOVE wealth from the circulating economy by sitting on it for years and years in a bank account. There was a time when banks stimulated the economy too, but those days are GONE.

Swedish people basically had the perfect setup for a society where people had a huge amount of personal freedom while the state took care of most of the vital things, with a good growth and personal wealth, a very safe society with very very little violence (finns that immigrated in the early 20th century inflate those statistics somewhat) too bad they threw it all away by importing 70 000 refugees from the balkan wars in the 90s, and then like 300 000 shitty arabs these last years. Most of the professional criminals in Sweden are either from the Balkans, and now they have a gazillion dirty muslims that can't into society, decency or normal human behaviour.

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>>722244331
Well that is because they the deluded ones with visions of grandeur. When we know they are the clueless entitled cry babies.

>>722243882

Profits are maximized by efficiency and innovation you mook. A Socialist state doesn't have to innovate because they have complete control of the market.

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>>722236914
No fucking duh, that's the basis of a shared burden system. Only conservative cucks and retards think that anyone's trying to get anything for free, everyone knows it has to be paid for, but that it's much cheaper more useful if everyone pays into it.

Jesus, it's like talking to McCarthyist idiots.

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>>722244810
This is now a condescending political Carl thread

>>722244683
Yes anarchism is a euphemism for it.

>>722244331
>post-post-modern socialism
>thinking we'll still burn coal
>thinking bureaucracy will be a thing
>socialism will be run by Strong AI
I look forward to digging ditches with my cybernetic body. OK, OK. They're actually mass graves for Capitalists but IDGAF.

>>722243510
So you've picked neither, brill

>>722245093
>Profits are maximized by revolutionizing industries every year instead of selling minor quirks with no technological breakthroughs

You're a stupid chump.

Live a few more years and maybe you'll catch on.

>>722245236
This is honestly the political manifestation of autism. If you don't see why a computer cannot govern people then you legitimately have some kind of social, emotional or mental deficiency.

>>722245040
Ouch.
Why is limp fisted cuckoldry so prevalent in these places? I mean look at Canada. I like the *idea* of what Sweden had going, but why can't it come without 30000 genders and sandniggerism?

>>722244532
kek why don't you read what the faggot posted instead of demanding answers, you might learn something that way

>>722244904
The top tax bracket also worked as a de facto salary cap. It also encouraged the wealthy to make tax-deductible investments and/or donations to charities. As the Randian Pigs gained more control over the government they lowered taxes on their income (and their favorite means of generating more "wealth" - the casino-like atmosphere of the stock market). So dividend taxes are all-but-nonexistent and they can amass giant piles of gold while fucking over the society that gave them every opportunity (and nearly every dollar) they've ever had.

>>722245876
How about I read your response?

Why do you need a dogmatic identity in order to express your political beliefs? Are you too cowardly to stand on your own?

>>722244758
>>722244381

Top kek

> mfw no one bothers to read this
> mfw anon has a detailed analysis
> mfw

>>722236464
niggers
whites

>>722232043
Its funny really, it was the US with a free market libertarian capitalist society on a gold standard monetary system that put the first man on the moon. Ever since the gold window got shut its been all downhill since.

>>722246086
Yeah, regulation of Wall-Street matches up pretty nicely against rise and fall of the American (world) economy.

>>722246165
A socialist institution, NASA, put a man on the moon you fucking simpleton. Free market capitalism and the gold standard had nothing to do with it.

>>722246124
> implying I'm the same anon
> implying I support anything he said
I'm just suggesting you read what he posted and educate yourself instead of demanding all the answer be handed to you, snowflake

>>722246446
I don't really care about any of that shit

I was asking anon about his personal beliefs

You can campaign for your personal politics somewhere else, faggot

>>722232043
>How old were you Anon when you grew out of libertarianism?

How old were you OP, when you realized you loved Big Brother?

>>722245330

Your delusions are adorable. Enjoy your great leap forward.

>>722244532
In the US to protect the individuals rights to be free to live their life as they see fit. To protect the nation from enemies both foreign, and domestic.

>>722246379
Lol, you moron those govt instutitions were bankrolled by private enterprise, whether through taxes collected or the actual work carried out by private contractors.

Socialism is a dysgenic Ponzi scheme, the only people who don't realize it for the failed ideology it is are drooling antifa faggots.

When scarcity is more or less non-existent courtesy of technology allowing us to easily and cheaply or even freely convert energy into pretty much whatever we want in our living rooms you get utopia. The supportable population is absolutely massive and things like space exploration become much more feasible.

When you have just about every nuke on the planet get used in a massive world destroying exchange you have a dystopia where extreme scarcity on just about everything you can think of is guaranteed. Doing anything except dying is extremely hard and your death will likely be slow and brought on by thirst, starvation, or sickness. You could be considered lucky to die quickly from a bullet.

It's not political or economic system, it's technology level and the state of the planet itself.

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>>722245672

But it worked so well in Fallout 3.

>>722245672
>hurr you has teh autisms
>durr computer can't into gummint
There won't be a "government", moron. No more politicians. No more "alternative facts" and misleading media. There will be a Constitution (based on our own) and decisions will be made democratically by those citizens who haven't been slaughtered composted.

>>722246900
Fuck off neo Nazi scum

>>722247024
S-Spoilers!

>>722246817
Capitalism is inherently flawed by every human flaw it so greedily embraces.

A room full of old investors and board members do not care about anything more than quarterly statements and their retirement packages.

This is exactly why Capitalism has FAILED the world yet again.

>>722246665
so you don't care about educating yourself on a topic you don't understand to better understand the topic?

>mfw this is must be what down syndrome must feel like

>>722246897
Conveniently vague

You could make a trillion-dollar industry devoted just to arguing what that means.
>o wait, they did

Maybe vague is what you want? Let the rich and powerful abuse the system and nobody can complain cause you never explicitly said they couldn't.

>>722247252
Meanwhile your God communism has collapsed in every nation its been tried. Because of human nature.

>>722241631
So where is that and is it actually libertarian or did you just throw it together to be contradictory?

>>722247376
Nothing in the link is new to me, but a personal opinion would have been.

Hopefully now you understand why I've completely lost interest in talking to you

>>722247123
Lol! @ the edgy commie clown. Come back to this conversation when you've grown up enough to actually contribute to society whether through taxes or service. Until then you are just another parasite.

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>>722247506
Communism is a global movement, not a local government. And yes, those governments collapsed because human nature is what it is; which is exactly why capitalism will fail until it is replaced.
>it doesn't even matter if there's something better, eventually we'll have to try, because Capitalism will make itself impossible

>>722243510
what a fuckin retard you are

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>>722247624
> nothing in the link is new to me

>>722236771
Who was giving out the trophies? You're the fuckup.

>>722248215
THIS.

The only reason millenials got trophies for participating is because babby boomers and Gen Xer's insisted on it.

>>722237212
the things i would do to her pussy

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>>722232043
<---Absolute monarchy, its way better

>>722248467
LoGH is lame.

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>>722232043
>tfw used to be libertarian
>tfw I've become a socialist
>tfw I'm also a nationalist
>tfw national socialism.

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This nigger seems to know whats up
https://youtu.be/eZfHrREXb5A

>>722247944
Communism and Marxist theory is about as dysgenic as it gets. Bailing out the dirty and stupid while the corrupt Politburo lords it over the proletariat begets you a system doomed to failure. You basically subsidize everything non-productive and penalize the productive you basically end up with a parasitic mass in the end. As long as capitalism maintains a slight eugenic bias it will absorb and re-balance in the face of all ideological onslaught. For all its flaws it is the superior system, and usually its just edgy non tax paying loser parasites who argue against it. ie students.

>>722248521
only when the two best characters die, other then that it does a good job at explaining why democracies are shit

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>>722248521

>>722248557
Nazis were fascist not socialist.

Political slogans are great for directing gullible tools, even decades later.

>>722248215
Baby boomers and gen xers constantly complain about the generation that THEY raised, makes no sense. Sad!

>>722248467
Yup, there is something to be said about a founding family or some sort of founding stock with skin in the game that'll always want to pass on the nation better than they found it. Basically the motivation behind all the progress in Europe from Arminius onward.

>>722245118
You're a super bad baiter. And you missed trips by 7. Retard...

The Alt Right is of the political right in both the American and the European sense of the term. Socialists are not Alt Right. Progressives are not Alt Right. Liberals are not Alt Right. Communists, Marxists, Marxians, cultural Marxists, and neocons are not Alt Right.
The Alt Right is an ALTERNATIVE to the mainstream conservative movement in the USA that is nominally encapsulated by Russel Kirk's 10 Conservative Principles, but in reality has devolved towards progressivism. It is also an alternative to libertarianism.
The Alt Right is not a defensive attitude and rejects the concept of noble and principled defeat. It is a forward-thinking philosophy of offense, in every sense of that term. The Alt Right believes in victory through persistence and remaining in harmony with science, reality, cultural tradition, and the lessons of history.
The Alt Right believes Western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and supports its three foundational pillars: Christianity, the European nations, and the Graeco-Roman legacy.
The Alt Right is openly and avowedly nationalist. It supports all nationalisms and the right of all nations to exist, homogeneous and unadulterated by foreign invasion and immigration.
The Alt Right is anti-globalist. It opposes all groups who work for globalist ideals or globalist objectives.
The Alt Right is anti-equalitarian. It rejects the idea of equality for the same reason it rejects the ideas of unicorns and leprechauns, noting that human equality does not exist in any observable scientific, legal, material, intellectual, sexual, or spiritual form.
The Alt Right is scientodific. It presumptively accepts the current conclusions of the scientific method, while understanding a) these conclusions are liable to future revision, b) that scientistry is susceptible to corruption, and c) that the so-called scientific consensus is not based on scientody, but democracy, and is therefore intrinsically not science

>>722248672
>the means of production aren't productive
you're a fucking retard, just stop

>>722248947
The Alt Right believes identity > culture > politics.
The Alt Right is opposed to the rule or domination of any native ethnic group by another, particularly in the sovereign homelands of the dominated peoples. The Alt Right is opposed to any non-native ethnic group obtaining excessive influence in any society through nepotism, tribalism, or any other means.
The Alt Right understands that diversity + proximity = war.
The Alt Right doesn't care what you think of it.
The Alt Right rejects international free trade and the free movement of peoples that free trade requires. The benefits of intranational free trade is not evidence for the benefits of international free trade.
The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children.
The Alt Right does not believe in the general supremacy of any race, nation, people, or sub-species. Every race, nation, people, and human sub-species has its own unique strengths and weaknesses, and possesses the sovereign right to dwell unmolested in the native culture it prefers.
The Alt Right is a philosophy that values peace among the various nations of the world and opposes wars to impose the values of one nation upon another as well as efforts to exterminate individual nations through war, genocide, immigration, or genetic assimilation.

TL;DR: The Alt Right is a Western ideology that believes in science, history, reality, and the right of a genetic nation to exist and govern itself in its own interests.

>>722247659
> implying you have to be communist to hate nazism and facism

>>722248789
regardless of what they were, I'm a national socialist.

>>722234063
Bitch you actually have a whole folder of those political memes that are all exactly the same? Is this like your hobby? It's not even a good point for fuck sakes

>>722249010
The means of production is either happy to produce because of incentive or it rapidly turns into quasi-slavery. Whether through 50% taxation or out right government expropriation of your labour either will go along way to taking enough incentive away to turn everybody into a drunken idiot. See Soviet Russia 1988. It was a disaster even your God Gorbachov knew it was a mess.

>>722233299
To understand the fallacy of this statement, you have to understand that government itself does not create anything. It does however, control who does. And not surprisingly it isn't usually the ones who are best at what they do.

>>722249133
Implying you have to be a Nazi to know a dysgenic clusterfuck when you see it.

>>722249578
aside from their fashion sense and xenophobia, what do you actually like about it?

>>722235599
that meme gave me cancer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOUbkdwpZ2o

>>722235869
kek

>>722233738
communism has no government idiot

>>722232043

I grew into it at 17 with my loss of energy for socialism and first reading The Fountainhead. Then a year later I wrote my final essay in HS English on how The Fountainhead contradicts the principles of Objectivism that Rand claims to espouse, and instead promotes a fascist mindset. My English teacher didn't really like that, as he was the one who suggested we read it to begin with.

I grew out of Ayn Rand completely about 5 minutes into my college libertarian club frosh year (basically they were like "Yeah, this is the real world mate") and stayed libertarian-leaning but strictly pragmatic up until the recent research on UBI -- that pretty much confirms for me that the basic presumptions of incentives that drive libertarian philosophy now have to be questioned and tested empirically in modern society.

tldr; I grew out of it once I learned about the research on Universal Basic Income.

>>722232043
>>722233299
>>722233794
not understanding that what it took to get to Star Trek levels of society was genocides and nuclear fucking Holocaust

>>722248891
A monarchy is just despotism, with a clear heir.

Which is actually a virtue. Despotism tends to collapse when the leader dies, which means every generation or so you have this huge power grab, where everyone stomps on everyone as they try to make it the top. Monarchy gets rid that hellish interregnum, but has no other virtues.

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>>722232043
wew lad looks like op forgot history

>>722241963
If a teenager gets to drive around all night, they might realize that they need their sleep and should be responsible enough to do their homework or they risk failing. If a parent over-parents the teen the teen gets accustomed to the control and can't cope with free-will. And then becomes a socialist.

>>722250071
> not understanding that that Star Trek is a pure fantasy

>>722250234
>>722250234
Also, an arbitrary line of increasingly inbred and paranoid despots is not necessarily a good thing.

>>722250358
>#DumbledoresArmy

>>722241631
socialist countrys don't destroy buildings to build new ones for companys only
or poison the food so they can sell plastic to the people you retarded ass bitch
i don't think that you live in one of these skyscratchers do you ? what are you defending then

>>722250071
yeah, let's see if we can get there a bit faster, shall we?

non-state form of socialism[2] and is considered to be the branch of anarchism which sees individual freedom as being dependent upon mutual aid.[3] Social anarchist thought emphasizes community and social equality as complementary to autonomy and personal freedom.[3]

Social anarchists advocate the conversion of present-day private property into social property or the commons, while retaining respect for personal property.[4] The term is used to describe those who—contra anarchist individualism—place an emphasis on the communitarian and cooperative aspects of anarchist theory; while also opposing authoritarian forms of communitarianism associated with groupthink and collective conformity, instead favouring a reconciliation between individuality and sociality.

It is considered an umbrella term which includes (but is not limited to) the post-capitalist economic models of anarchist communism, collectivist anarchism, and (sometimes) mutualism; as well as the trade union strategy of anarcho-syndicalism, the social struggle strategies of platformism and specifism, and the environmental philosophy of social ecology.

>>722237212
Just looked her up. Her being a radical feminist and a libertarian is a rather strange mix

>>722250692
What a pile of shit

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libertarian "utopia"

>>722250756
Who is she?

>>722237212
oh jules we would have such smart kids together

>>722250870
Julie Borowski

>>722250521
It's better than a civil war every 20 years.

>>722247524
most likely Venezuela

>>722250604
Holy fuck are you stupid. The worst environmental disasters on the planet were during the era of communist regimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norilsk#Pollution

https://warisboring.com/russia-is-finally-slicing-up-its-abandoned-radioactive-submarines-771bafa77465#.uaotxhq8t

https://warisboring.com/russia-is-finally-slicing-up-its-abandoned-radioactive-submarines-771bafa77465#.uaotxhq8t

Communism is a hoax only students believe in.

>>722250234
Doesn't have to be, and some of the longest running ruling dynasties on the planet kick the shit out of any communist regime in longevity by centuries.

Anyone want to bet the commies here legit think Che was actually a good person?

>>722243421
calling them retarded won't devalue their point

have you tried providing an argument first?

>>722232043
>socialist society
>it's a fantasy world imagined by jews
sounds about right

>>722250940
Googled her and found this list


https://libertyviral.com/20-of-the-hottest-libertarian-women-alive/

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Why do people keep saying StarTrek is socialist when it's clearly military.

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>>722251182
Or China.

Pic related.

>>722235386
People from failed economies are more easily swayed by false promises of socialism.

>>722251314
Not sure what you're disagreeing with.

>>722243925
stop trying so hard to fit in jesus