I am thinking about joining the Democratic Socialist Party.

well do it and fuck off

>>720600090
Was hoping for a little bit more insight than that my friend

Do you still believe in democracy after you had to pick between corrupted Hillary and somewhat stupid Trump?

Do you believe in socialism after the fall of USSR and the collapse of nordic social democracies?

Government is the problem and not the solution.

>>720600623
I think if socialism is applied correctly it could give normal Americans a voice

>>720600623
The reason hillary was corrupted was because of the corporations that paid for her; and the reason trump sucks is because he got rich in the same way the corporate ceos did.

Government is the problem because it's owned by corporations - socialism is the solution because it reverses that.

Stop this liberal reformist bullshit. Read Marx and join a real party.

>>720599930
You know what would be great? Coming up with your own original ideology instead of being stuffed to the brim with someone else's thoughts like 99.9% of America and because we did not actually reason our belief systems out ourselves, our primary mode of thinking is emotional. For how far we've come, we sure are fucking stupid. Just because you identify with a certain group doesn't mean you have to be or are aligned with every element inherent therein. I just hope you learn to think for yourself.

>>720601324
Democratic socialism has nothing to do with Marx and by the way that also begs the question what do you classify as a real party

>>720599930
You know that the fist+rose is the logo of spanish policital party named PSOE? It WAS a leftish party years ago, now it is pro-monarchy, pro-religion, pro-monopoly, pro-conservadurism and a large etc that makes them not socialism at all

>>720602784
Thinking that 'Democratic Socialism' could somehow 'save' the us by providing free stuff while keeping the rest of the political and economic system intact is bullshit. I assume that you are critical of capitalism so why not read the original critical analysis of it? (i.e. Capital vol. 1-3 by Marx)

>>720602947
Is like PP

>>720599930
which country?

Fuck off, Pdr Snchz susana te crujio

File: 1440043087682.png (172KB, 793x3748px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 793x3748px

Democratic socialism is a parasitic mindset that rewards the entitled and lazy.

It brings upon crazy high taxes to the general population and regulations to businesses that especially hurt small businesses and harm innovation.

Socialism tells us that subsidising in government programs and government funded business is the way to go while almost always the money is frivolously wasted due to guaranteed income from taxpayer money. It's been proven time and time over that when private businesses compete against government businesses, the private businesses succeed because of the motivation to serve the customer and receive profits.

Capitalism on the other hand is altruistic. It involves consentual transactions that help better society. It tells us that if we provide a service or product that is available with demand, we will all benefit.

It tells us that we can compete with other business in the job market so that people will want to work at the most competitively priced job. If the business is making a profit, the market is telling them that they're doing a service to society.

>>720600623
>collapse of nordic social democracies
I must have missed that on the news.

>>720599930
look OP, this is a faggot move.
1. if you are from Europe, all of the Socialist Parties in EU are corrupted arseholes. they want to control your money not to help you.
2. if you are from USA. their Socialist are plain and stupid faggots. they are part of the Democratic Party and the democrats are using them only for protests and like a vote mass. nothing more. they are treating the USA commies like animals. and now they want to trow them against Trump. that's all.
if I was a USA commie member, I will say hillary to go to hell. not helping the democrats.

>>720600918
>Normal americans
kek

>>720599930
That's not socialism. That's capitalism with more taxes.

>>720605264
The collapse of nordic social democracy has been gong on since the 80s. The countries have not collapsed, but the idea of social democracy has certainly.

File: d49aea52ff0ea61cb2d4f5d740082ea8.jpg (41KB, 590x392px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 590x392px

Have you ever asked yourself why all the socialist advocates are millennials?

>>720599930

Hey OP. What country are you in? I've been a member of the UK Labour party since 2010. If Britbong I'll answer any questions you have.

>>720606774
USA

>>720606774

Ah, sorry, in that case I'm not best placed to advise. Best of luck all the same, comrade. Keep fighting the good fight.

>>720606398
what's it like having rich parents?

File: 57f02613c36188b7498b4705.jpg (72KB, 980x554px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 980x554px

For a moment I thought this was a thread about PSOE

File: 1485584420146.jpg (57KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 500x500px

>>720599930
on a basic level

youre allying yourself with lefites, who love immigration
how do you fund the ever expanding welfare state? the # of dependents will continue to rise

>>720607132
>Labour
>Comrade

>>720601094
socialism bloats the government up to a size where literally everyone depends on it.

if youre worried about corruption then absolute power should worry you more

>>720606398
"If socialists would just buy my bourgeoisie economic theories they wouldn't be socialists"

>>720599930
Why not do the last point on there? Prisons seem like a reasonable place for profitable slave labor.

>>720599930
Trump is already planning his new internet plan which will bar you from a shit ton of websites, including this one.. Oh and the gov is now legally allowed to spy on your internet activity. It's time for a vpn http://traineddog.club

File: occupy wallstreet--socialism doesn't work.preview.jpg (103KB, 492x350px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 492x350px

>>720607148
Nice deflection

>>720607809
hey, a shitty strawman argument like yours doesn't deserve a reasoned response feggit.

>>720599930
Yeah and then you get a shit economy in the best case scenario

I am from Spain, we intended all of this now unemployment is 20% and pensions are being cut every year

File: capitalism-do-has-failed-socialism-hasnever-been-tried--spaulding-1640625.png (205KB, 500x731px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 500x731px

>>720607930
If you really want to respond, respond to
>>720605228

>>720607809
If you swap socialism with capitalism if your Thatcher quote you actually get a short summary of Marx ideas about the instability of capitalism and it's tendency towards crises. How ironic.

Well if socialism is so great, it is not forbidden that socialists unite and buy common land and establish a socialist community. Why don´t they do it?

They simply don't do it because it is so inefficient that you need to steal from actual productive people for it to have a change of working.

In other words, you need your socialist society to run on other people's money

That is why socialist societies become authoritarian. The more socialist, the more authoritarian. Check what happened in Venezuela.

>>720607492

What's wrong with that?

It's not uncommon for Labour party members to call each other comrade. Especially trade union members.

File: libertariansociety.jpg (14KB, 301x167px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 301x167px

>>720599930

File: cuba-vs-singapore_03252015.jpg (85KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 600x400px

>>720599930
Cuba vs Singapore

1984

So you say no free health care and no free education?

>>720608657
That's what sanctions do to you.

>>720608730
The irony continues. The bourgeoisie parasitising on those who produce is exactly what Marx warned us about!

nice bait.
have fun with your cuck government

File: slxyb.jpg (23KB, 600x512px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 600x512px

>we wouldn't allow cops to wage war on the poor
So basicly you would allow niggers and mudslimes to rape and kill in the name of their religion and muh freedoms just because they live in slums and contribute nothing to the society therefore staying poor?

>>720607148
The majority of those who that led SD movements were spoiled ass upper middle class, and rich kids. They only became these we are for the little peoples types when it was their turn to earn a living.
Also the only ones who do prosper are the leaders, and their cronies. It is crony capitalism at its finest. Only the working class suffer under it.

>>720599930
>Give everyone a living wage

Well that basically breaks apart the foundation of our prosperity which is the labour division.

We all work in things other people value so they will give us monetary value and we can then purchase the things we want from others.

If you give people a guaranteed living wage maybe they will keep doing things. Yes, but things they enjoy, not what others enjoy.

Maybe a failed artist who had to go to an assembly line for cars if he had a guaranteed wage he would just write poetry.

And it is fine but I want to buy a car, not his poetry. And what if he wanted to buy shoes and myself, instead of making shoes I decide to cultivate bonsais?

In the end we end up with a society that produces things nobody wants and then the things people need are not produced, like is the case in Venezuela.

>>720599930
Do it. They're good stuff. Also join antifas if you can. Nazis gave up their humanity, so it's good to punch them.

File: Person_Rand_Ayn_SocComm.jpg (90KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 480x480px

>>720608767
Except social programs aren't socialism. It can (and does) exist in capitalist societies. Many social programs exist in the US.

It's a slight of hand trick played that entices ignorant millennials to subscribe to socialism.

>>720609381

>Not arguing in favour of abolition of the wage system

My sweet summer child.

>>720600623
Ah yes, the backwater of Sweden. That country that is consistently better than the USA in every category.

File: 1481495977267.png (492KB, 507x768px) Image search: [Google]

492KB, 507x768px

>>720609454

>Posting Ayn Ran

Wew lad.

File: venezuelacolas.jpg (124KB, 1280x713px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 1280x713px

>>720609007
Well god created Venezuela to show that sanctions are not the reason

>>720609627
Well you work for your boss because he pays you a salary and it is in your interest

>>720599930
You and I are probably pretty similar in our views anon, but I think right now the best thing we could possibly do is usurp the Democratic Party, starting at the local level. It worked great for the Tea Partiers. I mean fuck them but it was a good plan of action and we can learn from it.

>>720609722

>Well you don't revolt against your owner because he can starve you to death any time he chooses and it is in your interest

Capitalism - the ideology of cucks.

File: v1766BG.jpg (53KB, 500x732px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 500x732px

>>720609722

>>720606398
If socialists all had rich parents, they wouldn't be socialists.

>>720609677
Also, socialism gives for granted that I give a fuck for somebody who lives 1000km away from me instead of myself and my family

I would rather spend every single tax that goes onto redistribution and welfare to myself and my family because I just don't give a damn of people I don't know and never will.

And if you stop and think, there is a lot of brainwash to make you think you should care.

>>720609791
You have the freedom to choose where you want to work in a competitively priced job market.

>>720607809
No one likes Thatcher. She was a warmonger, who could only orgasm by shitting on homeless children. She also doesn't understand socialism.

>>720609791
Well go ahead and live alone yourself in the mountains hunting.

But from the moment you want a can of tuna, there has to be a fisherman, an assembly line, a truck driver... All of them working for you. And they don't give a fuck about you, you need to provide some sort of employment or value in order to be entitled to other's time and effort.

That is how it works.

Your boss does not starve you to death. If you were to lose your job and starve to death means you are too useless to do anything on your own, so you should be kissing your boss' shoes for employing you

>>720608104
Ah yes, the "iphones made in capitalism" argument. After all, how could anyone want to progress beyond feudalism when feudalism gave you all that neat plowing tech, or how monarchy gave you that cool coal powered boat.

File: benderlaugh.jpg (55KB, 479x361px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 479x361px

>>720609997

Aww honey, it's sweet that you believe that.

>>720609997
Or if you think you "add more value" than what anybody is willing to pay you, you can just offer consultancy services or be an entrepreneur

People complaining they "don't get paid enough" but refuse to work on their own is losers not accepting that the market value of what they do is what it is.

>>720608657
Cuba actually had it's quality of life skyrocket since communism. I can take any two pictures from anywhere in cuba and compare them. It's not an argument.Think for a second. We have actual measures of success beyond "Look I found 2 pictures on the internet".

>>720610366
It is exactly like that.

The more your skills are demanded, the better paid you get

>>720610366
I'm sorry you're having a difficult time finding a job being an Art Historian. Maybe the demand just isn't there

>>720610180

>There won't be cans of tuna under Socialism
>That is how it works

Jesus fucking wept. I'd accuse you of trolling but you're clearly retarded.

>>720608730
That large class is millionaires. They don't work. Most of them were born rich and will be rich because they were born rich and things are easy for them. Fuck the parasites.

I dont know much of USA politics, and by the looks of most post you're still pretty afraid of commies.

Dont mix that with social democrats.
If you look at countries like scandanavian you can see that a social influance can be good.

Additionally in most countries politics are like a scale, where you can never reach the complete left or right because you always have an opposition (and thus its a game of give and take). So going for an socialist party will not turn you country into a communist shithole, but most likely will give it a direction to go.

File: wantcommunism.jpg (89KB, 618x853px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 618x853px

>>720609895
How frickin delusional. The boss does not need you. He can replace you, because people with that attitude are unproductive, they can find someone who appreciates having a job. You need the boss to pay you so you can buy those things you want, and need. Otherwise you may as well go and try to live off the land. But since you thing everything is owed to you, you would most likely starve, because it requires hard work.

>>720610366
>I work at Walmart and expect the same income as professionals

>>720599930
I'd rather that the government have as little to do over our lives as necessary.

>>720610525

Skills demanded under a Capitalist system determine how much you get paid.
Socialism doesn't mean taking money from people who work and giving it to people who don't. You're thinking of Capitalism.

File: cuba%USGDP.png (33KB, 662x575px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 662x575px

>>720610521
Look at the chart. It is measured in % of USA GDP.

Cuba is the only country that went backwards.

Before communism Cuba could be compared to Italy.

Now it compares to Dominican Republic

Guys every fucking time socialism is applied fails miserably. Why being so denial about reality?

>>720610784
You are not an island, no matter how badly you want to be one.

>>720610737

Why can't the workers just run the workplace without the boss?

>>720610739

Professional what, footballers, landlords, (((CEO's)))?

File: socialismvenezuela.jpg (708KB, 3000x2000px) Image search: [Google]

708KB, 3000x2000px

>>720610552
Ask the Venezuelans if there are many cans of tuna, and we are talking about the country with the largest oil reserves in the world

>>720609309
what planet do you live on where this is happening? You're living in a fever dream.

>>720610800
Socialism means exactly that. Means that it is not the value that you bring in that determines what you get but an arbitrary decision by a central planner (government)

>>720599930
Communism is a failed and dead idealogy. Also those goals wpuld only work in a utopia which means youre a cunt.

>>720610734
LOL! The Scumdanavian argument. Not noticing that US major cities have a larger population that that shithole area.

>>720599930
where would the money come from. nothing is free. unless you are willing to work for free, no one else is either. and there will always be someone that does absolutely nothing and gets a free ride. that crashes the system right out of the gate. sorry, it sounds good to children that have never lived in the real world, but it don't work.

>>720599930
>sanders
>democrat sellout to shillary
no, thank you. He is a scumbag that used the money people gave to his campaign to promote shillary's campaign.

>>720610866
Well cooperative entreprises are not forbidden. They simply disappear because they are not competitive.

Who decides the wages? Who controls the costs? Who is responsible for deicisions?

It simply does not work. You need somebody in charge who has finance knowledge and knows what the fuck he is doing

>>720610866
Because every worker thinks they should be the boss, so nothing gets done, and then nobody makes the money.
Also I must ask how much of your money are you willing to put into that business? How much of the money that started that business did you put in?

>>720611273
The top 1% is not taking anything away from me because they don't have any authority on me.

If I make them more rich is by buying smartphones, clothing or the things their entreprises produce. I do it voluntarily.

The only money that is taken away without my permission is what the Government takes away.

And socialism gives more power to the Government.

>>720611243
>China

Your point?

>>720611791
Ok well the American people fuck themselves at that point people are stupid and greedy

Social welfare in South Africa sure worked great in 1994 when Mandela took power; where it turned in to a welfare state. Every worker ended paying for 4 people's pension.

Last I checked, the currency conversion rate to the USD was something like R13.50 (13 rand 50 cents) to the US dollar. It was half that less than 5 years ago.

The U.S. may as well become fully socialist. As it is now corporations benefit from our form of socialism that seems to have no problem with corporate welfare.

>>720611176
Look at sweden bro

Part of the big trouble is here is that people are accusing Socialism of running a capitalist economy. Of course this is true.

Socialism does not seek to run a capitalist economy on socialist values and principles. What we seek is a fundamental restructuring of the economy for the benefit of all.

FAILED IDEOLOGY & new members
LIKE FLIES to venus flytraps
flies never learn
go right ahead brindlefly
a sucker born every minute

>>720599930
> Democrat
> Socialist

Pick one asshole.

>>720612423

Actually you can't be a Socialist without being Democratic.

Asshole.

>>720612423
>The poor now has the vote to take all the rich white man's money! I'm sure nothing will go wrong!

>>720612236
Yes, we fully understand the ramifications of socialism and Americans have rejected the notion mostly due to the failures we've seen in other socialist societies. I don't know how this is still forwarded in US.

>>720612236
But certainly there would be winners and losers. It is impossible to keep the rich (or the moderately rich) equal and make everyone better.

So you would have to downgrade the quality of life of the high medium class to high class.

What makes you think a good engineer does care more that poor people live better off if he is worse off?

What makes you think he won't just flee the country to live a good life in a capitalist country?

Socialism can only work if you don't let people escape the country, which is usually what happens in socialist economies.

>>720599930
>We'd give free...
Dropped.

>>720605228
Eyes wide shut

File: IMG_3868.jpg (127KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 400x400px

>>720612561

File: IMG_3869.jpg (37KB, 450x260px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 450x260px

>>720612874
Welcome to Scientology.

>>720612744

You complain about having to "downgrade" the life of the most wealthy while expressing no concern or need to uprade those most vulnerable in society.

I agree, Socialism needs to offer a better alternative than to Capitalism. A good engineer would have a good life under a Socialist system for performing a useful service and not being exploited by a boss who takes a cut of the profit he makes.

>>720599930
We got that "Democratic Socialist" shit here in France and trust me, you can't imagine what it has done to this country.. The best way would be a USA-like ideology, but with the equal opportunity thing going on.

Socialism is the most selfish concept on planet earth. In essence it is "I'm breathing, therefore I deserve". Capitalism is finding the demand and meeting it with a competitively priced product or service. It breeds innovation and is the lifeblood of the US economy. Socialism on the other hand is based on force.

>>720613524

Capitalism is the outstanding notion that the most selfish of people will do the most selfish of things for the benefit of everyone.

>Socialism is based on force
Says the anon advocating an ideology and economic system which is supported by the state, a police force and a military.

Doublethink.

File: 1483852988950.png (12KB, 450x477px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 450x477px

You don't solve the world's problems by taking the money away from the rich men. That is the fastest way to destabilise the economy and ruin the country.

Socialism, like most Leftist politics is based on two groups: the oppressor and the victim. The problem is that no matter what, you are always a victim to some external force.
And it's quite laughable because the people that victimise themselves will never get out of their victim mentality because they use it as a status symbol. They never try to change their circumstances because they only believe that society is at fault but not them.

When do we start reducing the human population by force?

We are to many that is the real propblem.
How about a lottery? You either win or lose, losers will be removed. That way, lets see...lets remove about 65% of the wolds population?

>>720605228
Capitalism doesn't work bro. It's a race to the bottom, modern feudalism.
It's all trust accounts, tax evasion, bribery, insider trading, minimum wages, political interference, polluting the environment to protect their bottom line, etc
Take health care for an example.
You have a lot of different companies doing the same thing for a small chunk of the market. Economies of scale cannot be achieved. And private companies must always turn a profit, so they have to charge more to ensure they don't bankrupt themselves.
Govt healthcare is one organisation, economies of scale can apply (sorry billionaire plastic surgeons, you will have to work on some cost only patients)... and it is not for profit, any savings made get rolled back into the budget. Everyone receives a basic level of care, no one dies in the streets.
Hospitals can be private, but regulation of public funding needs to be govt owned.
Politicians don't have thick skin anymore, by privatising they can blame everything on business, while getting cash shoved in their back pocket to keep the status quo and keep the rich rich

>>720602947
that's the logo of the international socialist
now, America is sinking itself into irrelevance if this kind of europarties are appealing to the milennials.

>>720605228
can confirm
i live in a country where social democrats have ruled. corruption, inflation and unemployment are guaranteed

>>720602947

You know the rose and the fist is a common symbol for Democratic Socialist parties and not just your Spanish party, right?

>>720614349
>Capitalism doesn't work
>lists all things that are against the law

Name one flourishing socialist society

>>720612561
democrat =/= democratic

>>720614838
The EU.

>>720606398
Economics isn't humanity
Pushing some into misery to make a profit is not how life should be

>>720599930
you should try National-Socialism

>>720614878

So Socialism is based on the workers being in control and managing their own affairs.
In a socialist system the workers would have a lot more control over their own lives and be allowed to take decisions which affect their own lives.
In this sense Socialism is democratic.
I sincerely hope that helps, no troll.

File: 1483923004616.jpg (256KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

256KB, 1280x1024px

>>720614991
XD

File: 1483166919977.png (487KB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

487KB, 854x480px

>>720614919
I'm sure a coalition of countries that have to worry about the economic prosperity of their neighbouring countries has done well. Greece is a great example!

>>720599930
Social Democracy puts a band-aid on the issues capitalism causes. True socialism and eventual communism is the actual solution.

Democrats often point out roads and public services as ‘Socialism’ and if you abhor Socialism then maybe you should move to Somalia where there is essentially no government.Of course, most Democrats are completely ignorant and uninformed and have no real clue what Socialism is let alone ‘Democratic Socialism.’Democratic Socialists hate Capitalism (except crony capitalism of course).Socialism, no matter what form, is always to take from others who have and redistribute to those who don’t have.Fire departments, highways and other public services in those categories are paid for by everyone via taxation and used by everyone. These are not programs that take from some to specifically give to others, like welfare.CNN recently provided an ‘example’ of Democratic Socialism by using Denmark. Of course, the Danes didn’t agree with this so much:Sanders has proudly adopted the label of a “democratic socialist,” and he has pointed to Denmark as a model for his vision of an ideal American future.

>>720609905
>it's impossible that spoiled kids grow spoiled political ideas

>>720607955
Nothing to do with your country being "too expensive" compared to eastern Europe where they can pay ppl less, less rules, less meddling by the EU???

>>720615322
In Denmark, there is a very different understanding of what “freedom” means… they have gone a long way to ending the enormous anxieties that comes with economic insecurity.“I would like to make one thing clear,” Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said recently in a speech at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. “Denmark is far from a socialist plannedeconomy.Denmark is a market economy.”But it is a market with many differences from the United States. All Danish citizens have access to child care, state-guaranteed medical and parental leave from work, free college tuition in which students receive a paycheck from the government during enrollment, free health care and a generous pension, all of which Sanders supports.“Free” is actually the wrong word to describe these services. Danes pay some of the highest taxes in the world, including a 25% tax on all goods and services, a top marginal tax rate hovering near 60%. The top tax rate in the U.S., by comparison, is less than 40%.We recently ripped apart the ‘greatness’ of Denmark when a meme came out saying how fabulous it was. You can read the truth here.And what these leftists don’t seem to understand is Fire Departments are put into place, budgeted and voted on by their local communities. Public Schools had originally been the same way until the federal government got involved in the 1970s, which is ironically when public schools started to truly go downhill to the travesty they have become today. This is why many people believe in school choice, including many on the left.Roads and even highways are taken care of at the state level with the exception of federal highways and social security was arguably a bad idea even when pushed forth by FDR back in the 1930s. The federal government created a Ponzi scheme that they continually borrow money from.

>>720615646
Eventually the government will run OUT of other people’s money and the program will go broke, but leftists never let facts get in their way.So, no, these programs aren’t examples of Democratic Socialism nor have they ever been, especially since people actually pay into their own social security accounts throughout their entire working lives. If they die before social security age hits, their money dies along with them.Even Bernie Sanders doesn’t know what the hell Democratic Socialism is, yet he pretends to push it using a capitalistic society with tenets of a failed welfare state as an example.Since Bernie Sanders has been nothing but a slacker his entire life, not even accomplishing anything while spending many years in Congress, he’s not exactly the ‘go to’ person on ANY ECONOMIC theories.Once again, Democrats know so much that isn’t true.

>>720608293
>>Socialist society runs on other people's money
USA has $1trillion of debt
Check mate

>>720608657
Cuba was relatively successful, ESP considering the sanctions put upon them under the force of the USA

>>720614919
>has an extensive welfare state because until a few days ago USA protected them
>still they do not forbid free trade or private property
>still they allow private banks
>SOCIALISTS
KYS twice please

>>720599930
Fucking commie cunt

>>720614349
When you make a government larger and more powerful two things will happen:

1. It will start interfering with the private lives of citizens. Personal freedoms will start being severely limited and will more than likely lead to internal struggle

2. It leads to ineffeciency, corruption and a much higher chance to collapse. Ineffeciency by subsidising programs and businesses that never work. Corruption by bribing to get in to government positions.