>>718537338 This. He's a disgrace to Israel. Stop defending him. And stop trying to use terrorist organizations as a benchmark for what is supposed to be a nationstate. Why the fuck are you competing with Hamas in lawlessness?
>>718536881 He is in jail for a reason. And that reason is that he shot a terrorist in the head and killed him. That terrorist stabbed soldiers just minutes before and was neutralized. He took the law to his own hands and shot the terrorist dead. Not a hero. Not a blood thirsty monster. Just one soldier who forgot that even though he faces terror attacks on daily basis - he still lives in a modern democratic country with a law system. Unlike the Arab countries around it
>>718537801 >forgot The only thing he forgot was the presence of cameras. He's a recklessly impulsive retard who shouldn't have been allowed to handle a firearm. An amoral sociopath. Now there's a difference between that and a "bloodythirsty monster" I mean, he didn't go on a rampage. But he did kill for sport when presented the opportunity.
In any other setting he would've been jacking car radios or bruising for a racket.
>>718538049 First of all, him being in jail means nothing to me either. I don't care if that means anything to him or not. He is in jail because that's the court ordered. Second, if you're an anarchist or refer to an odd ideal anarchistic society - that's a different, silly discussion.
>>718538732 He could've killed him on the spot. He could've executed him after arresting him He could've not arrested him at all and just straight up killed him.
But they arrested the guy, bound him, put him on the ground, went through paperwork, time passed, and eventually this dude decided to casually shoot the guy with a placid look on his face like he was expecting nothing else would happen because in all likelihood normally when cameras aren't around nothing does.
He was detached as fuck. Way beyond a state of rage. He just had some meat presented that he could kill without consequence.
>>718538954 I started by saying that I think he's in jail for a reason. But my point was that I have no sympathy for the "victim". the "victim" was a terrorist that somehow survived his own suicide mission to kill as many as he can. He couldn't, and got shot. and about 15 minutes later, got shot again.
>>718539318 I'm not saying I have sympathy for the dude he killed. I just don't have sympathy for the IDF soldier either and I earnestly believe hiring him was a mistake because he's unfit for the role and tarnishes the IDF. I'm also dismayed by Israel's heavily polarized stance on these matters, where they have a wannabe-nationstate simultaneously condemning terrorist organizations and using them as a strategic rolemodel.
>>718539318 >>718539468 Like, maybe it was a little hyperbolic earlier, but I get a distinct impression this guy is an opportunistic criminal. Situations like Israel's draw their kind all the time. Because, well, they offer the opportunity.
>>718539835 Look man, are you a band of loose cannon gunmen on a stretch of desert in a Mogadishu-esque anarchy, or do you want to build a state with a code of law? One that isn't made up on the spot, Mugabe?
>>718539468 >>718539468 If Israel was using terrorist organizations as a strategic role model this soldier would not be in jail. He would be praised like Samir Kuntar (who killed a four-year-old girl with a gun-stock). But he wasn't praised. He was imprisoned. P.S he wasn't "hired" as well. He was drafted.
>>718540113 Fair point on the draft. But voluntary or not, looks like they need to sharpen up their recruitment criteria.
As far as the rest goes, you're on point. The critic in me would want to see if this holds true from this point forward. It also questions the *undocumented* cases where a camera wasn't inconveniently around (and got out of IDF's grasp). I'm also mostly referring to the popular response, to this incident and others I've seen.
There is also a lot of bad history behind this. The IDF has a truly sordid background, right up to this point where they actually prosecuted a soldier for once. But yes, I can't deny that if they make a change here and stick to it, it is a big step forward.
>>718540113 >>718540339 And, in the interest of fairness. public opinion heavily leaning towards lawlessness when the fuckup leans towards "their side" is not exclusive to the Israelis. Including when I have frustratingly seen it in action among "my side" in issues I had a stake in. However I denounce that just as much - if not more, because my expectations are higher.
>>718540339 >they need to sharpen up their recruitment criteria agreed. >The critic in me would want to see if this holds true from this point forward. It also questions the *undocumented* cases where a camera wasn't inconveniently around. Me and you both. The morality of the Israeli army should not be binding to the morality of its enemies. I hope that even in less documented cases the high level of morality showned in this case will continue. >The IDF has a truly sordid background that depends on how you define "sordid background"... what would the US military do if they needed to handle terror attacks in DC for decades? what would Britain do? What would any other democratic country would do to?
>>718541116 By sordid background I'm not just talking about Israel's drama with Palestinians. I'm not an American, I'm a European. We have history with Israel. I know plenty of veterans involved in the first Lebanese war who were assigned to UNSC border watch and were ordered to stand down when IDF moved into Lebanese towns at night to massacre civilians. This was made extra clear to them when the UNSC had its people "clean up" stragglers off the record.
They then further piled shit on during the second Lebanese war. They should be glad John Bolton threw the US in between as a human shield favoring Israel, because as far as I'm concerned Israel should have been made a colonial administration of the EU then. We documented and live broadcast the IDF poaching UN forces, wiping out fleeing civilians, destroying UN watchposts and uhh, how about hunting our fucking ambassadors convoy with aircraft to eliminate witnesses Israel lost its right to its sovereignty that day in my eyes. They have a lot to make up for. Now in all honesty, the way they're handling this case, it's being done well. But they got a long way to go yet. Just so long as they keep this course.
>>718541698 >John Bolton threw the US in between as a human shield And really, I don't think it ever registered with the US how critical this point was, but Israel pushed too far after that stunt with our ambassadorial staff. It was remarkably downplayed in foreign media, but we had troop carriers loaded up with marines and heading into the mediterranean to land at Tel Aviv before Bolton used US political capital to call a veto. Olmert made a high stake gamble and almost lost Israel then. And IMO they're still on thin ice.
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