Taxes are theft, prove me wrong.

Cause who needs fucking roads, firemen, and military....fuck all that shit

>>717125206
Taxes are not theft.

i win

>>717126138
>literally using 'muh roads'

Road construction and firefighting can be handled by private companies.

>>717126364
What's the point, though? They're public property. Might as well be maintained by a publicly agreed upon budget.

>>717126364
Literally fear, is a prime example and governments will always form using that. And private companies will do shit that will benefit them which means toll roads, lower amount of cars driving and you get yourself a butterfly effect. Anrcho capitalism is retared and youre retarded

>>717126364
someone still has to pay the private companies though i guess.

i dont believe we should have to pay as much tax as we do. i pay so much tax on my earnings and im scraping from paycheck to paycheck to feed my family when theres all these worthless niggers abusing welfare and getting free money from me and the rest of the tax paying suckers

>>717125206
Do you use a single government service?

>>717126364
>Muh capitalism

>>717126364
So you'd charge a "service fee" to people in a house fire? Do only the houses who paid their bills get protection?

Would you toll people to use all roads. Do only the cars that pay the companies get road access? Do companies profit by making "premium" lanes to those who pay extra?

>>717126929
Literally how eastern europe did it for a good while

>>717125206
Considering you are forced to pay them, I guess you're right. But they do serve a purpose.

>>717126652
Why should the government extort me to pay for a road I won't be using? a private company building the road then charging a toll or subscription to use it is much better in my eyes.

>>717126364
except if someone has a monopoly on roads, no amount of competition will allow the best provider to succeed so muh capitalism doesn't work

>>717126929
>So you'd charge a "service fee" to people in a house fire?

Yep, they can pay ahead of time for a subscription if they want service. You're not entitled to anyone's services.

>Would you toll people to use all roads.

The company that builds it has the right to do that if they wish

> Do only the cars that pay the companies get road access?

If the companies choose to do it that way.

> Do companies profit by making "premium" lanes to those who pay extra?

If they wish to do it that way.

>>717127066
I don't think you understand how big and bureaucratic a government is.

>>717127055
I'm not against a voluntary tax, but being forced to pay for services you don't use or want to give your money to is retarded.

Nothing is free. Including the roads you use, the schools you attend, the servicemen and first responders that show up when you'be been shot because you're trying to rob a gas station because gas stations don't own that alcohol, man. Alcohol belongs to everybody.

>>717127202
progression of humanity slows.

>>717127491
How? The progression of humanity slows when we think that anybody is entitled to anybody else's services free of charge.

in the country i live in (nz) tax payer money also funds the MPs leisure such as holidays and credit cards and probably thibgs we dont know about. its fucking ridiculous. these cunts get paid 150000+ a year and get tax payer funded holidays which sometimes cost like 50k or some shit and the rest of us plebs are working our cunting arses off just to feed our kids and we get NO help from the government

16th amendment enacted in 1913. Feds did fine the entire time before that with no federal income tax. Yes, fucking theft.

>>717127202
Stupidest shit I've read. It's a fucking government, not a Netflix subscription. Why would you want your government to only work for the highest bidder and to only suck corporate cock.

You do understand your system would only work for a small fraction of a percentage of the population. People can't afford to get cucked by corporate shills.

Unless you own those companies that get the contracts you will also be in a bad spot. No one is saying you're "entitled" to services. Those services were paid for by all of us, Including the person receiving the services.

>>717126364
And who pays the private companies you dope.

Road construction is done by private companies... they are contracted by the government.

>>717128043
>And who pays the private companies you dope.

Whoever wants to drive on those roads.

>Road construction is done by private companies... they are contracted by the government.

Yeah, so why not cut out the middle man and just let people pay for the services they use?

>>717125206
Call it whatever you want, autist, it doesn't change the fact that it's an essential component of every functioning society throughout history. See, fiat currency is an abstract concept (in other words, the money you make =/= your value as a citizen), and if you don't like the country's system that allows you to make that money, well... gtfo.

>>717128260
>>>
wrong again dumbshit, Anonymous 12/30/16(Fri)18:56:11 No.717127855▶

16th amendment enacted in 1913. Feds did fine the entire time before that with no federal income tax. Yes, fucking theft.

>>717127202
>I'd let family's houses burn down, especially the poor. Fuck the poor.

>I don't actually have answers for muh roads idea will work, so I'll just default to "it's up to the companies"

low energy post

>>717128260
>it's an essential component of every functioning society throughout history.

I guess our country was literally crumbling before we had income tax.

>f you don't like the country's system that allows you to make that money, well... gtfo.

"If you don't like that guy breaking into your house and stealing your shit, just leave your house!"

>>717128457
It is up to the companies though. If they're constructing the roads, they own the rights to do what they wish with them.

>>717128508
It's cool if you don't pay taxes. Just don't use ANYTHING that was in any way paid with tax money. Sounds good?

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The majority of Canadian revenue is own source revenue. That's the shit we make off trade and whatnot. I imagine income tax is so high due to healthcare here. But in the united states, I bet you guys could be living without income tax. Fuck taxes.

>>717128580
but you can't even explain how your privatization of roads could even function properly. so you lazily default to "ask a company that doesn't exist idk"

>>717128636
I would do that, but if you don't pay taxes you get thrown into a small cell for 5 years. You don't have any issue with that?

I pay taxes so, no. I don't

>>717128792
speaking of prison, private, for-profit prisons are sure showing us how privatizing services that should be regulated by the govt fails miserably, to the point that people won't be sent to the hospital in order to save money or too few guards are kept on site

>>717128881
So if I came up to you on the street and asked for 30% of the money in your wallet or i'd lock you in my closet, you'd be totally fine with it and give me the money?

>>717125206
>prove me wrong.

faggot

>>717129032
I dont have any benefit from you, so no, fuck you

>>717128381
This was when the population was ~90 million and the population was steadily climbing; thus, the country was beginning to need more, and most thought it was a great idea in 1913.

Don't be such a fucking simpleton. Go read.

>>717129167
You don't have any benefit from paying for a service you might not be utilizing at all.

>>717129183
I bet he watched Zeitgeist or some shit and now thinks he's fucking enlightened

>>717128508
>"If you don't like that guy breaking into your house and stealing your shit, just leave your house!"
A house =/= a nation with borders and laws, you dumbfuck.

But seriously, you should leave the country.

>>717129300
yes, but you use other services above average. And if u can't figure out a way to efficiently benefit from the services the government offers you, then you are either dumb or lazy or both.

>>717129342
I haven't seen it; is it ultra-autistic in its anarcho-whatever?

>>717129300
many of the service that don't directly benefit me benefit me indirectly by improving our society as a whole. I'm done with school and don't want kids, but I want kids in America to have access to a good public education because everyone benefits from an educated workforce and population.

Federal income tax is theft

Ftfy

>>717129665
Basically an autistic conspiracy theorists wet dream

>>717125206
When you use a service, you pay for it routinely.

The Government is like a service that you also pay for so that you don't fucking die and life stays in order.

>>717129665
>9/11 was an inside job!
>Jesus never existed, he's an amalgamation of pagan gods like Horus!
>the federal reserve is controlled by a cabal of international bankers!

now you've seen zeitgeist

>>717129853
>When you use a service, you pay for it routinely.

What if I'm not using the roads, police, or firefighters, should I be forced to pay for them?

>>717125206
Name me any other context where the money taken from you and others is also spent on you and people you care about.

It's not theft, you're a retard if you think it is.

>>717129949
But this is literally all true.

>>717130024
>taken from you and others is also spent on you and people you care about.

Why shouldn't I be allowed to keep the income I make and spend it on myself if I wish to?

>>717130102
Because a modern, developed and functioning society is a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be. Stateless regions of the Earth are always chaotic, violent and destitute shitholes, period.

>>717126364
Who the fuck is going to pay people to make roads and fight fires then? Everybody pays? Sounds like fucking taxes. A small oligarchy in a town(rich people)? Sounds like another form of governance.

>>717130032
ok kiddo

>>717130233
I think forcibly taking a certain portion of my income to pay for a service I won't be using complicates things a lot more than "if you want to use a service, pay for it, otherwise don't use that service".

>>717129792
This. OP is an edgy idiot.

ITT: a 12 year old has just learned about taxes and is outraged

>>717129949
Well, the 2nd one is at least half accurate. I don't know if the dude actually existed, but the similarities with other Gods are pretty striking.

>>717130311
Do you have any proof any of it isn't true?

>>717129960
You pay for a government (president, etc.) to make decisions for your entire nation as a whole, again, so you don't fucking die. Whether or not you think that affects you, it does. It's what makes us like we are now instead of like Africa. No one wants to live in Africa.

Also, if you somehow don't use the roads, police, or firefighters, you still benefit from them by extension. Police are ridding the criminals seeking to harm and steal away from the public and into prisons. Without the police, you would probably be killed and stolen from on a daily basis. Also, even if you NEVER use the roads, as if you're trying to make some point there, you still NEED the roads. If you refuse to go outside your home to shop, you have stuff delivered. It's delivered to your house by the roads, etc.

>>717130368
Anon, you use government services and your livelihood is largely dependent on them. By that I mean, our society would fall the fuck apart without government. You need to get back to learning if you don't know this is true.

>>717130279
>>717130279
Anybody who wishes to travel on the roads or use the firefighters.

>>717130400
http://skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one/

nigga plz

Businesses can do everything better than government can

>>717127346
You pay for cops because everyone else does. It's a system, man, everyone does it.

>>717130368
>350,000,000 people cooperating and working things out amongst themselves.
Yeah, should go pretty smoothly kek

You're an imbecile

>>717130565
Businesses have one primary goal above all others, maximize profit. Maximizing profit is not the best approach to every single institution in our society.

>>717130805
Maximizing profit will lead to more innovation and a better service so they can compete with other companies providing the same service.

>>717130419
yes

>>717130853
And who is going to stop them from poisoning the air, ground water, food and general consumer products to save money?

>>717130984
upright citizens brigade

>>717130984
The government can step in and stop them if a company is causing a harm to the general public.

>>717130805
>Maximizing profit is not the best approach to every single institution in our society.
now that right there is just an opinion

>>717131134

And what will fund the government without taxes?

>>717131174
You want every single institution in your society existing for the sole purpose of siphoning as much money from you as possible? This is why you have 5th graders being prescribed powerful amphetamines.

>>717131134
And how will this government that is standing by to step in to prevent harm be funded?

>>717129960
You don't use insurance all the time, so should you be forced to pay for it all the time???

It's a safety blanket for incidental happenings SPECIFICALLY in the case of firefighting and police services (and the roads required to transport these services), obviously you're not getting robbed or have your house on fire all the time, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't have insurance, police/firefighting is the same ADDITIONALLY you gain the benefits of living in a society where your neighbors house doesnt start burning and catch your house on fire, and thieves/murderers/whatever have to function knowing that deterrent force exists. On top of that things like roads facilitate the transport of goods by companies that are taxed by the government, and that money goes towards paying for services that lots of people use. You live in a country where the vast majority use government services, and in a country where random individuals who deviate from the norm, oddly enough, do not get to decide how the whole shindig is run. Go start your own country and report back.

>>717127015
And they stopped for good reason.

>>717131218
They can be upright citizens who are volunteers

>>717131218
conquest

>>717131218
Donation or voluntary taxes.
I should've been more clear, i'm against forced taxation as we have it now, but a system of voluntary tax where you pay for the institutions you want to give your money to would be fine, then the ones that don't get enough funding should be handed over to private companies.

>>717131174
Really what is wrong with you people? How are you so dense that you can't see that states are necessary in modern society?

Power vacuums get filled, and it's better that the people have a handle on the main source of power in a society.

NAME ONE NATION ON THIS PLANET THAT IS STATELESS, STABLE, PROSPEROUS AND DEVELOPED

>>717131380
Holy fucking pipe dream

>>717130541
Holy fuck, how much of a loser do you have to be to actually address some insignificant documentary point for point like that.

Look, there may have been a man named Jesus who started a cult at one time, but most of it is just a vulgarized product of the imagination.

>>717131470
>voluntary taxes
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>717131591
>I have no argument

>>717131380

Ans how will these volunteers enforce these regulations?

>>717131687
Anon at a certain point what you're saying is so stupid that it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

>>717131754
"The government shouldn't steal your money"

>OH WHAT A FUCKING RETARD HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>717131687

No argument is needed because you're clearly a fucking retard.

>>717131552
> there may have been a man named Jesus who started a cult at one time
most critical historical scholars agree that there was in fact.
>but most of it is just a vulgarized product of the imagination.
obviously the miracles and shit are made up, but they are more often references to OT prophets rather than pagan gods. you could make a case for samsom being based on a solar deity or a version of hercules, and there's a strong case for yahweh subsuming attributes of baal and el. but the arguments made in zeitgeist are crazy bullshit with no basis in reality.

>>717131892
>we can fund our society on the goodness of people's hearts and charity will replace taxes
you clearly don't live in the real world

>>717131892

You wanna to stay, you gotta pay.

Goddamn that was gay, but I'm going to stick with it.

>>717127202
The thing about fires is they spread so if your neighbor doesn't give a shot and is willing to risk a fire to their house also puts your house at more risk.

>>717131892
It's not stealing for several reasons.

A. It involves a democratically elected state to varying degrees

B. The money is SPENT ON YOU

These distinctions alone separate it from theft. Theft doesn't involve money being spent on you, theft doesn't involve you deciding on conditions, the amount of money taken and several other factors.

>>717132048
>I don't know what supply and demand is

>>717126929
This is literally like 1700s america and that shit suuuuuucked
Like they straight up would sit outside and make sure your fire didnt spread to the neighbors that paid and your shit just went up in flames

>>717125206
>Implying ownership is an entitlement
>Implying the existing wealth holders in society did jack shit to earn their wealth.

>>717132161
>I don't know what reality is.

>>717132161
>I took econ101 and I think I can literally design all of society around entry level economics principles, the concept that people want things with varying levels of availability

You should be ashamed of yourself.

>>717125206
Sounds like you are pretty much against society in general, go live in the woods free from government and restriction, you dirty hippy

>>717131965
>most critical historical scholars agree that there was in fact
I'll have to look this one up, but I really doubt it's accurate.

Of course there are similarities with just about every God and prophet, because they're all products of the human mind; I don't see why Jesus would be any different. As for the dubious points in Zeitgeist, I suppose when you're espousing that 9/11 was an inside job and such, it stands to reason that it wouldn't be the most reliable source.

>>717132537
>anybody who's against stealing is an anarchist

>>717128987
Who would pay the private prisons? The victim? The prisoner won't pay that's for sure.

>>717132723
It's not stealing, people have told you why and you refuse to acknowledge it, you're a fucking idiot.

Name one stateless region of the world that is prosperous, safe, developed, educated and stable. Until then, shut the fuck up and admit defeat.

>>717132889
Pretty sure he's just a troll and has run out of things to say.

>>717132889
>It's not stealing

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Stealing
>1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

>Name one stateless region of the world that is prosperous, safe, developed, educated and stable. Until then, shut the fuck up and admit defeat.

There aren't any yet. Just because a system hasn't been tried doesn't mean it wouldn't ork.

>>717125206
You need a police force and punitive system in order to have the bare minimum of a secure society. It will not do to have private companies providing those services. But the government needs money to provide them. That money is taxes. So taxes are necessary to reach even the bare minimum of a secure society. If that's the case, they are not theft. Ergo taxes are not theft.

>no roads
>no trucks for food, supply's, medicine
>people resort to old ways of survival, hunting, fires
>eventually devolve back into niggers in Africa
Thanks op. Just pay your bills you retarded faggot, and stop taking everything you are given in life for granted. You may not use a road you pay for, but you get a lot in return. If you don't like it move to Uganda or some other shithole that doesn't have roads

>>717132714
>but I really doubt it's accurate.
why exactly?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

I'd also recommend a book called The Historical Jesus: Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant.

Little is certain other than his baptism by John and execution by Rome (both supported in part by the criterion of embarrassment), but the simplest and most logical explanation is that there was a historical Jesus that legends were built around.

For instance, if he were just made up, why is he from Nazareth? It was known that the Davidic messiah would hail from the city of David (Bethlehem), so much so that the gospel writers invented a census to place the holy family in Bethlehem for his birth. Why would they jump through these hoops, instead of just saying that's his hometown? Because Jesus was from Nazareth, and this was well known at the time, so they couldn't deny this fact.

Plus the earliest Christian writings are like 25-30 years after jesus died, and Paul met his brother James and apostle Peter (and had very public disagreements with Peter)

>>717133173
Technically they have permission anon. It's a legal requirement.

>>717130102
Because you chose to make that income within a system that taxes. You want to work in the us? Then you pay taxes.

>>717133173
>without right

Your government is granted the legal right to tax you for services determined by and enforced by three governments that every American lives under. That's not stealing, they are explicitly granted the right to do so.

It has been tried, there are states where the government has way less control than the businesses that operate there. They're called third world shitholes, move there if you hate gov so bad.

Without taxes, the government might aswell cease to exist, so...
>No police
>No fire service
>No border control
>No major roads
>No public transport
>No power grid
>No gas grid
>No water treatment
>No army
>No health service

>>717133927

>b...but I don't use any of that!

>>717133927
I could spend all day coming up with ways that corporations could exploit the power vacuum of a stateless society.

Imagine the highways. One company maintains it and owns it. They charge whatever the fuck they want because no competition is going to waste time building an alternate highway. People will still need to take it.

Even aside form the huge flaws, you can spend all day thinking of really annoying inconveniences that it would spawn.

>>717125206
depend the place or country u live in

I'm not sure if everyone is making OP look stupid or if OP is making himself look stupid

>>717133440
>why?
Because there is scant evidence outside of the bible to support it.
>"the vast majority of scholars who write on the subject agree"
This may be true, but there are many different opinions on specifics, and on top of that, Jesus only appears in non-Christian history 3 times (and those accounts aren't exactly rock solid).

Again, I think it's probable that a cult leader named Jesus existed, but it doesn't really matter one way or the other.

>>717126364
>Road construction and firefighting can be handled by private companies.

You fucking moron. So you can pay taxes or tolls. But wait, the tolls aren't covering the repairs, we need government help. Taxes and tolls. Fuck you you sniveling cunt.

>>717134700
Regardless anon, much of the concept of jesus is borrowed from Horus, Babylonian myths and ancient hellenic ones. Born visited by three kings, dead resurrected 3 days later etc.

>>717134534
Not to mention imminent domain's role in constructing roadways etc.

>>717134922
>much of the concept of jesus is borrowed from Horu
Total bullshit, support your argument
>Babylonian myths
Jesus? No. Old Testament? Duh. Its roots are in Canaanite polytheism which in turn is rooted in Babylonian religion.
>visited by three kings
Wise men, and their number is never given in the gospels

>>717125206

Surely if anything it's robbery? Either way it generates a mostly beneficial infrastructure so its not that bad. You can also opt out if you want, you just have to live free of the tax money funded world.

>>717127642
no the public fund projects ie. Apollo program, particle colliders pretty much anything sciencey.

>>717134700
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There's no reason to think Roman historians would care about some Jewish pissant, just another no-name messianic claimant.

The best evidence comes from the gospels and other early Christian texts (again, written down roughly 30 years after his death when many who encountered Jesus or his disciples were still alive) Not by taking the texts at face value, mind you, but by applying the tools of textual criticism to them.

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>>717125206
The democrats want to control everything you do, DUH. That's the point of taxes.

We should only pay a use tax.

>>717136455
>Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
Never said it was. Funny when people bust out a logical fallacy in attempts to refute what they think is a logical fallacy.

Neither of us can prove anything with absolute certainty on this issue, so it comes down to a subjective assessment of the evidence that's provided -- and for the 3rd time, I think he probably existed.

Anyway, I really don't feel like bickering over trivial bullshit anymore.

Freedom isn't free. Pay for your damn social liberties and quit your bitching.

>OP got his first job and first check and can't believe how much less pot he can buy because of taxes

>>717134563
Like I said earlier. OP is making us look stupid because OP doesn't actually believe what he's typing and is just trying to get a rise out of us.

>>717126364
Maybe watch Gangs of New York and get an idea of how well "privatizing" shit like firefighting and road construction works you fucking 5 year old. We already tried it, it failed.