why do so many people hate communism

Bourgeoisie propaganda

>>715533100
simplistic much?

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>>715533289

i dont know,the more i read about communism the more it doesnt sound as bad as people make it out to be

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>>715533100
Bc they dont understand it

That pic is wrong btw. you dont own cows, you only work on the farm

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>>715533589

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>>715533744

cuz it's for faggots

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>>715533812

>>715533100
Every attempt at communism ever invalidates this thread. Just so you all know.

Two tier system. the rulers and the ruled.

On paper it's honestly the best idea developed. The only problem becomes that human greed will almost always lead to those in power becoming corrupted, so absolute control becomes dangerous. See : Joseph Stalin

>>715533100
Maybe the countless mass genocides that have to do with it?

>>715533100
Because people need something to hope for and they hate being stolen from. Communism is nothing short of theft. Those who wont work get given their life from those who do.

>>715534489

>countless mass genocides

>still thinks that history is always accurate

im not denying that there have been people like joseph stalin but im sure there has to be communism thats been tried that didnt lead to the same result

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>>715533955
You should read into those attempts and see if you can find a comon theme. Bourgeouie sabotage perhaps.

When the world transitions into socialism, it will either have to be led by or end with the US. That is, America the only true superpower atm must bring the change to others or everyone else will have to team up to defend against the American pigs.

>>715533100
>Two guys
>One works hard, the other doesn't
>Both are given the same in life

Gee, sounds great!

>>715533100

Because Communists don't actually care about the poor or the workers. They care about fucking with the rich, which they do until everyone is poor.

>>715534531
That's closer to modern socialism. A communist state would require the populous to work voluntarily or force them to, so that all contribute to the greater good.

>>715533100
In theory it works
When put into place, the basic human flaws get in the way of a laidout plan
Communism is TOO laid out while leaving TOO much open to exploitation
It's also terrible for a nation that plans on making a profit off of anything
And surpluses of anything don't last, so if everyone's getting the same rations, nobody is getting the same rations

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>>715534531
You must work to receive the benefits in communism. The welfare state is a direct result of capitalism.

From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.

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>>715533420
yeah, sounds great... on paper.

the problem is that you can't really apply all that communism really wants, and when leaders see that, they shrug off and being to oppress the people since they have the power regardless (and by the way, its curious how people fall for "leader" comunisms considering that this ideology is against vertical classes, so since the start have been all just a huge amount of bullshit in every attempt humanity has made to install this in the last century and so on)

>>715534730
Exactly. The government is stealing your effort. You are essentially a slave of the state. Communism is predicated on the idea than individuals dont own their labour.

>>715533420
Except to be specific, I have more energy than you fat fucko, so I have the ability to build more than you. Ergo, you taking my effort means I don't have any incentive to do a fucking thing outside of just enough to skate by.

Hence, fucking shitty economy.

living in capitalistic china

ama

>>715534715

and the anti trumpsters ruin the thread

good night

>>715534648
Oh yeah. Just ignore Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Ill Sung, Fidel Castro...

Jeez there sure have been a lot of communist dictatorships that have led to slaughter and mass censorship. You know... I can't seem to find one that hasn't. Maybe you can help me.

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>>715534716
Patently untrue. It would take one read through of the communist manifesto to see your error.

>>715534849
>From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.

But no one quite knows how to assess what someone's abilities and needs are.

Do I need an in ground pool? Can I get one in a Communist society if not everyone has one?

>>715533100
*Gives as many as possible milk so people dont have to be begging for food on the streets like in many capitalist countries.

>>715535050

reading comprehension,you should get some

>>715534849
So we should all be slaves to the state? Why the hell should other people get benefit without earning it?

>>715535060

What if one is "able" to work harder than the other? Why shouldn't he just fake being unable?

>>715533100
indoctrination

>>715534648
And if it doesn't exist today how had it turned out? Probably not too successfully. Humans can't be trusted with communism or socialism. Been proven time and time again

>>715535060
Explain it to us, then, instead of being a fucking simple faggot who replies with the same generic "do your research" argument to everyone that disagrees with you.

Do you actually know how to support your position in an argument at all?

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>>715534076
kek

because I don't want some moron that's good for nothing living as well as me

http://bernie.sanders.cuckify.com

>>715535176
See: >>715534730

>>715534648
>im not denying that there have been people like joseph stalin but im sure there has to be communism thats been tried that didnt lead to the same result

Not really, no. Certainly not in a country with a large population full of people with varying interests.

>>715534899
>implying capitalism isnt the oppression of the people by the powerful wealthy

There is chance for oppression in all societal forms. Question is, how do you deal with that? In America, there is mass propaganda to keep the proletariat at rest. We have a shitty legal system that pardons all wealthy offenders. Communism would not stand for such slime. Death penalty for the cheaters, I say.

>>715535127
>hurr durr you're stupid because I can't come up with a valid counter argument

Name me one communist leader that has at the very least not imposed mass censorship. Don't even worry about the genocide. One communist nation right now or in the past that didn't actively crack down on freedom of the press and speech

>>715535023
Ah, the bourgeois is here to evade responses and suade the viewer through fallacies. Not this time, swine.

>>715534849
Under that rule, thoss with the ability have no incentive to use it because no matter how hard they work to become better, they will only see the same results in their own life.

The primary justification for communism is that monetary influence is horrible, but in reality money is worthless without power to be bought, so instead they cut it out, and take all power into the hands of oligarchs which in turn become more oppressive than the system they where meant to replace, that at least somewhat allowed for a fluid class over caste system. Afterwards the failure is blamed on it not being a "pure enough" version of communism. Essentially it's a never ending con, which the naive, and stupid fall for perpetually.

Because it doesn't work, if everybody has equal everything, then there isnt any economic growth. This leads to laziness, and yes there's laziness in capitalism, but they get whats coming to them, which comes in getting no money, but with communism, that lazy person will still get paid, regardless of how much work they put in, which leads to nobody working, shortages of food, and if the state finds this out, it leads to the death of that man most likely through execution. How do you think the USSR fell, and how North Korea and Cuba are in the shitter. With capitalism, people are inspired to work hard to get money, which leads to competition and, without a governmental monopoly, they have a freedom to choose. With this, they can choose the good that is at a lower price, creating competition among corporations, and leading to them lowering prices/improving their quality, which if they make a profit, then the workers make higher wages and have a higher quality of living, whereas in a communistic society, the quality of living is laughably terrible, look at the former USSR, North Korea and Cuba. This is why people hate communism, it breeds laziness, lower quality of living, food shortages, and lower quality of goods.

>>715534346
and on top of that, hard workers will receive no incentive to maintain hard work. liberal arts majors will receive the same rations as someone who has a doctorates degree.

>>715534899
kinda like this guy said. it probably WOULD be pretty good if implemented as on paper.. but every instance has always been rife with super corrupt fucktards, including a big % of public who head for the black market opportunities despite the risk.

>>715533420

Problem is that it gives the government power. When government has power then they become more corrupt. The more corrupt the government is then it starts taking and stealing from the people. It is the reason why it failed in many countries. See Russia from 1918 to 1990. Cuba struggled with it and North Korea is currently struggling with it. If the government does not get corrupted then it works well.

Another thing, capitalism would ideally work if the government does not get involved here either. If capitalism is ran correctly then it drives prices lower. But government swoops in and adds minimum wage and adds cronyism as well. When those factors come in then we the consumer begin to lose.

In both instances, government is the biggest problem. Just Communism relies on the government the most. Capitalism does not need the government at all in the most ideal situation.

>>715535328
My question still applies. The needy do nothing to earn it. Why would those with the ability bother to use it if they can't reap the rewards?

>>715533100

As somebody who has studied economics for over 7 years this thread makes me want to kill myself. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing people with zero education in the field touting communism as being a good idea.

>>715533100
You have two cows. The state takes both and demands a blow job.

ftfy

>>715535540
Oh and without capitalism, you wouldnt be able to complain about it on the internet, there would be no computers, internet, or even basic electronics

>>715535540
>With capitalism, people are inspired to work hard to get money, which leads to competition and, without a governmental monopoly, they have a freedom to choose.
capitalism moves power to the companies who have only monetary gains as their interests
this in contrast to having a strong government with its people and country's well being as the main interest

also. go visit china if you want to see proper capitalism in action

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>>715533100
Easy to get corruption out of fucking control without any form of check since state controls basic needs.

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free helicopter rides for edgey highschoolers who've never had to work a job in their life

>>715535350
I didn't imply that, you did. And I agree that we are quite in a shitty situation regarding economic systems

>>715535617
Market competition doesn't ever work longterm. You either get monopolies or the largest corporations will manipulate the prices enough to gain more profit than it's worth. Why do you think certain goods are so ridiculously overpriced despite competiting corporations? At least with nationalised corporations they have incentive to operate at as a low a cost as possible.

>>715535093
>>715535176
>>715535209
Communism is specifically a post worker society. You can envision such a world with the boom of automation around the bend. We will have automation to do the work. You will be needed to work but for perhaps a single day of the week? Unless one is disabled, there is no real incentive to fake out of that little work.

As there is no need for workers, luxuries would be available to all. It would be no problem for in ground pools and the like.

The only real need for human work would be in the higher intellectual and skilled realms. If one wanted to create a video game for instance for the rest of society to enjoy, we could offer a reward. Communism is NOT everyone gets the same and everyone does the same work. However no reward shall be excessive to the point of impoverishing others.

Does this answer your questions?
.The transition to communism should be socialism. Shall I explain that?

>>715535617
>Another thing, capitalism would ideally work if the government does not get involved here either. If capitalism is ran correctly then it drives prices lower. But government swoops in and adds minimum wage and adds cronyism as well. When those factors come in then we the consumer begin to lose.

This involves a baseless presumption. There are lots of examples of situations where socialist impositions generate a cooperative surplus. Sure, in those cases some people get more benefit than others, but everyone (or almost everyone) is made better off than they would have been without those impositions.

Of course, not every dimension of an economy is like that, and you're 100% right about totalitarian communism inviting corruption.

>>715535839
China does have a pretty rad economic system. Too bad the culture is fucked in such a way that family relations determine who gets what job

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>>715533420
>pooling resources and labor
>sharing everything

>Lol I'm just going to slack off and do the bare minimum
>give me half yo stuff for free whiteboii

Gulags be racist n shieet.

>>715535804
>Oh and without capitalism, you wouldnt be able to complain about it on the internet

The internet originated as a military project, not as a product of private enterprise.

>>715536009
>nationalised corporations they have incentive to operate at as a low a cost as possible.

No you don't, faggot.

Without competition to bring prices down there is simply no reason to do so.

You've created the monopoly you just moaned about.

How the fuck are you people so stupid anyway, I'd really like an explanation.

>>715534967
spoken like someone who hasn't actually studied any communist examples.

now while I agree communism doesn't work (or at least hasn't, and probably won't for a loong time), and as others have pointed out already, it isn't as simple as "lazy fucks just sit back and collect the handouts". my folks lived thru russian occupied czech and 2 things they did that largely counter the common anti-communist headline:
1. wages were not all the same. there was a range of 1 to somewhere between 8 to 10. 1 being a basic retail shopkeep, 8 being a doc, and 10 being a high level official (minister of X department). That strikes me as a pretty decent real world range for the diff between skating and a really capable person putting in serious effort.
2. you HAD to work. if you don't, you go to jail. and jail was NOT a comfy place. it wasn't 100% black and while, you had a certain amount of time you could be without work, but you werent getting welfare $ during that time.
There were plenty of other benefits that my folks freely admit they really appreciated about the system, even though they risked their lives to leave and overall completely oppose the system.

>>715535633
Just indoctrinate them into fully believing in the state. Works wonders after a few generations.

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>>715535945
What is needed beyond doubt is a check on the state. Currently in America, there are courts and branches meant to be checks. They have failed. There is no accountability for government officials. We would need some prior to communism. Again I say death penalty to liars and cheaters.

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>>715533100
Stupid fucking nigger.

>>715535362
Ding ding ding we have a winner. Hint: communism only leads to death of freedom and free thinkers.

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>>715536059
Oh shit sorry I didnt realize we were talking about space age fantasy. My bad.

>>715536009
The prices aren't being manipulated by the corporations, they're being manipulated by the various governments around the world. Despite your argument being a moot point, as your solution would simply be a replacement of controlling parties even if true, it's an utter falsehood. Take the epipens for example. They're only being hiked in price because the government isn't willing to remove the patent.

>>715536239
Your point being?

You're wrong about that anyway, but whats your point?

>>715533100
some people hate it because every communist country that's ever existed was a despotic failed state

some people hate it because they've been told it's bad by Fox News, and also that the definition of communism includes saying "happy holidays" and protecting the environment

>>715536009

Not necessarily. Usually many of the monopolies are created thanks to government. Like Obamacare and their boundaries ended up creating a geographical monopoly. Those companies get to set their own prices if they are not getting enough money.

>>715536059
>Communism is specifically a post worker society. You can envision such a world with the boom of automation around the bend. We will have automation to do the work. You will be needed to work but for perhaps a single day of the week? Unless one is disabled, there is no real incentive to fake out of that little work.

This makes sense. You're imagining a Star Trek world with infinite energy and resources.

>>715536009
>>715536099

[Citation Needed]

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>China
>Cuba
>Laos
>North Korea
>Vietnam
Where do you communist faggots want to live?

>>715536009
Not to mention the fact that the major monopolies today only exist due to having special deals with nations like China, which allow them to undercut their competition.

>>715536418

The point is that the government funded its creation through taxation. It wasn't a product of capitalist transactions.

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>>715536395
>>715536498

Not space age or star trek but the era of automation, yes. A post worker society. Could see it within the next 50 years if we played our cards right. Until then, socialism.

Keep in mind communism is not black and white but a scale. Over time, society will ease into it.

>>715533100
Because communism = Shitting on individual and human rights in the name of equality, which you still don't get.

>>715533100
There are plenty of other countries that support that economic system. You're free to leave anytime you want, faggot.

And: >>715534716 is correct.

>>715536099

The scenarios I provided were ideal communism and ideal capitalism. The biggest problem in our society is that we rely on our government to fix our problems.

>>715533100
cold war misinformation

>>715533100
Incorrect. The state owns the two cows and you willing spend your time raising them and then you give the state the milk and they distribute it equitably.

>>715536347
I'm still waiting for one from that guy. It's almost as if they don't exist. It's almost as if every attempt at communism has actually turned into a dictatorial hell on earth. So strange.

>>715535540
>How do you think the USSR fell
They were in disadvantage in the cold war because germany backstabbed them and they were an agronomic country before the soviet revolution, regardless of that they were able to fight toe to toe with a superpower that had the best luck in WW2.
On the other hand Cuba has been able to survive an economic blockade for ~50 years while achieving 0% child malnutrition.
You're full of shit and capitalism has never been able to achieve the utopia of a real free market.

>>715536259
How so? A government serviced isn't primarily for profit (although they do make money) but to provide the service at the lowest cost. Coming from sasktachewan many essential services are nationalised and a helluva lot cheaper than private systems here and elsewhere (even after factoring in higher income tax). Also some nationalised corporations can operate within a free market, although they shell competition in many cases.

>>715536678
What right do you think you would lose under communism? Unless it is oppressive , I cannot see any right lost.

>>715536649
>taxation

Yeah?

And who paid the taxes, faggot?

Jesus fucking christ how do you get through day to day life being so fucking stupid.

For future reference the internet wasn't "invented" by any one particular organization, government or private. How you arrived at that conclusion I honestly don't know. You're a fucking moron.

>>715536499

Nash equilibrium. Prisoner's Dilemma shit. Gauthier's minimax relative concession. Plus the empirical evidence that shows (most) infrastructure and services like police and military are better administered centrally rather than by private enterprise. It's the reason we don't have competing private fire departments any more. Etc.

>>715536266
Is that why both russia and china quit communism?

>>715535633
your question is answered >>715536260
Communism (at least how the russians defined it) does NOT include equal pay nor the ability to be a leech.

Communism is an idea that cannot be executed successfully. People have their own ideas and their own desires. Force them to want exactly what everyone else is getting and you run into civil unrest.

People are assholes and it only takes a small amount if them to ruin it for everyone

>>715536901
>No one ever creates anything.
Kek'd.

>>715536831
Obviously you've never actually talked to any Cuban refugees, and obviously you've never actually read any factual information on how the Russians suffered under Stalin after WW2.

>>715536976
That is not what communism is, comrade. Read a few previous posts and you can see why.

>>715536901

I don't think you understand the topic under discussion.

ITT: Libcuck's first college level history class.

>>715536831
i would suggest a major factor is the huge military focus and massive paranoia of the govt. those things both cost ALOT of money and take up ALOT of people. with so much effort put on watching your own people and having a massive active army, and a harsher landbase to boot, how much do you have left over to advance?

>>715536881
>What right do you think you would lose under communism?
The right to be better, live better, and do more than the common sheep.
The right to dominate the ignorant peons.
The right to be totally uninvolved with society.

>>715536675
That's probably what they thought at the start of the 1900s too. In all honesty I think communism isnt such a bad plan in the robot fantasy you described if implemented properly, but the wishy-washy socialism of today is so fucking broken it makes my head hurt.

>>715533812
That quote sounds capitalist to me.
If they're trying to say that's communist, then they're doing it wrong.

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We should stop trying to go capitalism or comunism as if they were the only two possible systems. Both have flaws. To name one, its really hard to give everyone the same, mostly with a global population of more than 7 billion. And in capitalism, its true that you can profit so much that you reach a point where is just ridiculous the amount of power and income you have by basically just scratching your balls once you are in the top.

We should look out for a system that gets the good things of failed economical systems and that can be realistically applied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0okdbuiX5A

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>>715536901
You retard... It's common knowledge All Gore invented the internet.

>>715536881
The right to own property for one obvious fucking example.

>>715533420
The reason people flip out is because:
A: history shows implementation of it claimed millions of lives and threw countries into poverty.
B: more sensible people with knowledge know communism is idealistic, unsustainable given human nature, and shown by the Ukranian free territory, it's easily conquerable.

>>715533172

>saying bourgeoisie when you should be saying bourgeois

you remind me when I was 12 and I first learned how to spell marijuana

>>715536831
>they were able to fight toe to toe with a superpower that had the best luck in WW2
Yes, it's amazing how much shit you can get done when you turn over 10 million people of your own population into slaves. Do you know what the gulag archipelago was?

> Cuba has been able to survive an economic blockade for ~50 years while achieving 0% child malnutrition.
Yeah, it's hard for your children to starve to death when you already worked then to death.

>>715537199
1 (you can't have a 300ft yacht but you can have alot more than others) and 2 (just become a high ranking party member) false. 3 true.

>>715537356
this

>>715537050
What communism is, is exactly what people can see by reading this entire thread. A failed system, which keeps getting revived because its proponents use their own propaganda as "proof" of its success, and then deny any actual history on the topic.

>>715536881
The right to the fruit of your own labour, the right to own private property, the right to not be sent to a gulag to work until you die.

>>715536901
The basic protocols and rudimentary research were funded by the US government. Nowadays it's pretty wild, but the original system were created in capitalist US universities

>>715537047
>talked to any Cuban refugees
Great source of OBJECTIVE information, retard.
Go look for data on your own.
>>715537047
>factual information on how the Russians suffered under Stalin
Go search for factual information of how people suffer under any capitalist country, to reach communism you need proletarian dictatorship and there will be some bitches that will cry about losing their power.
>>715537364
>turn over 10 million people of your own population into slaves.
If they are not helping the rest of the country why let them free?
>Yeah, it's hard for your children to starve to death when you already worked then to death.
Source?

>>715534648
Only the Ukranian Free Territory, it lasted three years and was replaced by Stalinist communism.

>>715535050
You're right. There hasn't been any.
What the communist are advocating for is to become enslaved and killed because they don't know economics.

There is nothing wrong in being jewish

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>>715533100
>why do so many people hate communism
Simple because the if I bought the cows those cows belong to me and i will do with them as I please. The government has no right to take something thats rightfully mine and give I to another because "muh equality". Also communism reduces power to a hand full of people in the military and in political system who will abuse the system at all costs to retain their power. (libtards forget this fact often)

>>715533100

I've noticed communists never acknowledge the massive failure of their political ideology that we've observed over the past century, it's always "Oh this time it will work, when society finally adopts it again for the umpteenth time it will succeed, this generation is the special generation". It always ends up destroying the economy and turning everyones lives into poverty and disease while the rulers and leaders hold their positions and the nations wealth until they are either killed or just die.

Keep reading your convoluted necessarily complex political works and imagining the perfect world while tuning out the real side of reality.

>>715535486
you just described capitalism

>>715533100
Because I'm wealthy and don't want to give up my shit.

>>715537203
Real communism is impossible. It requires individuals to voluntarily give up money/power (either originally, or for the government officials to give it up after seizing it from the rich, which is where we saw the communist shitholes in the USSR, China, etc. go). You're right that China and Russia and Cambodia were not really communism, but the truth is that real communism is impossible.

>>715537499
This is the idiocy I've been talking about. You imbeciles deny any actual history, and first hand accounts as falsehoods, but claim your own propaganda as proof.

>>715536959
But could you work and save money to go to school to be a doctor? Or do you get stuck in a career for life with no upwards mobility? Where the state gets to decide who gets to be doctors? You still cant own your labour under communism

>>715537499
>>factual information on how the Russians suffered under Stalin
>Go search for factual information of how people suffer under any capitalist country, to reach communism you need proletarian dictatorship and there will be some bitches that will cry about losing their power.

Wait, are you actually drawing a comparison between quality of life in Stalinist Russia and, say, that of the USA or Western Europe?

>>715533100
im not going to debate the rights and wrongs of communism but I will say 2 things
1. China is now a National Socialist State
2. Democracy is a lie, We in the developed WEST (england, australia and especially the US) live under capitalist rule, the dollar and only the dollar is what you should rely on, for better or for worse

>>715536832
>provide the service at the lowest cost

And what's the incentive to provide the most effective service?

Take telecommunications. Why offer your "customers" fiber-optic connection when you have no competition whatsoever?

BT's stance (formerly nationalized company, has a monopoly on lines throughout most of the UK as a lasting result), for instance, was that nobody needed more than a 30mbps connection in the UK. Even though we have a choice of Broadband providers (drives cost down) BT owns most of the lines, and rents bandwidth to competitors like Sky.

Thank god we have entrepenuers like Richard Branson who can afford to provide increased bandwidth to larger areas like London, providing a FAR better quality service. If we didn't have that competition in the market, we'd stagnate and be stuck in the fucking stoneage.

>>715537644
Where is your proof, retard?
I can show you a bunch of statistical information about Cuba.
>>715537694
There are a bunch of failed capitalist countries all over the world, I don't need to pick the richest.

>>715537603
No. Even shitty modern american capitalism still allows for upwards mobility. And created pressure for innovations that rocket people to the top.

>>715535098
have you not seen the poverty in communist countries?

>>715537499
he may have dubs, but he's clearly still a troll (albeit a pretty good one)

>>715533589
So what do you own in communism. Or is there nothing you can call your own except the labor you provide by your own blood and sweat.... oh wait, that's the federal government's property too... so it's slavery to a greater good. Remember that "Work will set you free" comrade.

Fuck off with your freshman bullshit.

>>715536636

>>715534849
Except you don't... you "work" for maybe 2-3 hours a day and get a ration like the other drones the go back to your generic one bedroom government sanctioned one room apartment. If weak meager people want to live that way thats fine but it shouldn't be forced on others.

>>715537888
The proof is precisely what I told you. First hand accounts. Your "proof" is simply a compilation of idiotic ramblings from people just a foolish as yourself.

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I would like to make some clarifications for anyone genuinely interested in communism and socialism.

First, communism must be transitioned into via socialism. Communism is a post worker society. One where automation is widespread. We already have fully automated stores, 18wheelers, cars. We are not that far off. Consider the amount of workers about to be laid off in the next 20 years. Revolution is right around the corner.

The first step must be socialism. It will reflect a concept called "market socialism" if you want something to research.

Consider what capitalism is: a capitalist (who goes by many names: banker, owner, investor, businessman and more) takes money, puts that money into a business and collects the profit. He is not a worker. He profits off of the workers' labor.

Market socialism steps in and says the owner must be abolished. The markets remain, profit incentive for workers remain (you get paid more for more work), competition remains. The only difference is the profits do not go to the owners but back to the workers and into societal needs (healthcare, schools, other struggling businesses, training, etc).

Remember that the 1% capitalists own 90% of the wealth. That wealth distributed amongst workers is more than enough to line the workers pocket generously and cover societal needs.

Socialism is not a welfare state. You must work if you can to receive benefits. How to curb disability fraud? In a socialism, the work to be done by an individual to meet a comfortable life would be low. In the civilized world, we are talking 2 or 3 work days. And it decreases the longer socialism is successful as automation increases. The incentive to fraud disability is low. One thing that would be financially viable are checks on the disabled. We can fund that. It will be seen to that fraud is minimized.

Questions?

>>715538022
>First hand accounts
Literally a bunch of fallacies, just like capitalism, the material reality of any human is different from one another you stupid retard.
Do you think that I can get a objective view of any country if i ask the richest motherfucker?
Do you think i can get an objective view if I ask Raul Castro?
Literally kill yourself.

>>715537210
>That quote sounds capitalist to me.

You've never read Marx, obviously. This is easily something he could have said.

>>715537888
Ultimately, your "proof" boiled down to the point at which even a simpleton such as yourself can understand is simply "because I said it, it must be true".

>>715538183
No. No one is 'genuinely interested'.

>>715537878
Sasktel offers the best service for the lowest cost in Saskatchewan. There are other competing companies that give new innovations and pressure to adopt them, but a proper government corporation will be focused on better service for less cost. The incentive is that national corporations are about providing a service, not just making profit. Im not saying governments should get monopoly over everything, just that they tend to be more customer-oriented than purely greedy private corporations

>>715538240
>you seem closer to the verge of that tbh
This is making my point quite vividly however.

>>715537685
hm, that's more detail than i can confidently answer. my impression per my folks was the state decides (at least for the most part). now, if you are a good candidate for a particular education and there is a need for most of that profession, you WILL get that education (free of course) and that job. and it will pay well. if you are NOT a good candidate to be a doc... well then you really shouldn't be one, should you? For the sake of the public you will serve, and for YOUR sake so you don't waste 8(+) years struggling through college, and then can't run a sucessful practice cause you suck/get sued/charged cause you fuck up people.
now, where that DOES fall apart is the state has to be good and honest about selecting who gets what opportunity. there seemed to be a REAL big component of "are you/your folks good tavarishs[sp]?" That should not be a factor, but it seemed to be a major one. In other words, money and capitalist power was replaced by party/political power. Ultimately, same result, different route to get there.

>>715538183
>That wealth distributed amongst workers is more than enough to line the workers pocket generously and cover societal needs.

would hate to live in a society where someone working at mcdonalds makes as much money as a doctor though.

there are some pretty dumbass mother fuckers in this world who just shouldnt have large amounts of money.

>>715538259
>because I said it, it must be true
That's the guy taking a refugee's opinion as a fact.
>because the refugee said it, it must be true
>>715538353
How so?

>>715537052
I don't think you understand English, nigger.

>>715537878
>>715538295
Oh I should mention that sasktel is a telecommunications company

>>715538019
maybe in some incarnations, i dunno, but not in the german or russian editions.

>>715537364
>Yeah, it's hard for your children to starve to death when you already worked then to death.

Yet another piece of garbage from the endless sea of retarded shit people make up about Cuba. Cuban child labor laws restrict any employment under the age of 15, and the government has actively cracked down on extralegal child trafficking. Cuba also has compulsory education to grade nine, one of the best systems in latin America to boot. Next time if you don't know what you're talking about, just shut the fuck up.

>>715533100
problem is human EGOISMm it defies communism

>>715538394
You also are ignoring the fact that the government is nowhere near smart enough to predict who will be the best at a certain career long-term. The one who suffers through medschool barely passing might make a way better doctor in the field than a straight-A student. Who knows, right? I say that we each ought to have power over our own destinies.

>>715538295
And whats speeds are you getting, brah?

You personally. Speedtest that shit.

>>715538412
I'd like to live in a society where a doctor and a person working at mcdonalds could both house, feed, clothe etc themselves without going on the fuckin dole

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>>715538412
Again, more important work gets paid more. A doctor would make far more than a burger flipper. The markets remain in tact in market socialism.

One day, the need for doctors will be relinquished as automation takes over. And around that time, communism is the inevitable future. But not until then.

Thanks for the response.

>>715536196
Authoritarianism ftw

>Hitler and his Authoritarian regime killed 1/3 of what Stalin did, and Nazi's developed many technologies that we take advantage of each and every day

>>715538412
>someone working at mcdonalds makes as much money as a doctor
FFS THAT'S NOW HOW IT WORKS! ALL JOBS DO NOT HAVE EQUAL PAY!

>>715538606
Who's the Cubafag?

>>715538183
>$0.05 has been deposited into your account.

Thanks CPUSA.

>One where automation is widespread
It's possible, but it isn't the case quite yet.

>We already have fully automated stores, 18wheelers, cars. We are not that far off.
This is false. There are plenty of human elements that are still needed for these stores to operate and as these automated services continue to expand so do the technical jobs to maintain these automated processes until the human element is completely removed. At which point the human becomes a worthless consumer.

>The first step must be socialism.
Wew-lad.

>>715538240
You're simply a fanatic hopeful, desperate to break the yoke, of some imagined oppressor, all the while claiming all of your woes, to be the fault of another. It's pretty entertaining to watch you squirm honestly.
The simple fact is that you'll claim anything to be somehow "biased", I could even take you there, and have you walk among the mass graves, and you'd still claim I was somehow misleading you.
>pathetic

>>715536239
You wouldn't have internet available if it weren't for capitalists who, taking enormous risks with their capital, decided to build towers and fiber optics across the entire world for the PROSPECT of an enormous reward if it paid off. There was no guarantee it would. It was risk. That's what capitalism is. Innovation. Risk. Investment.

If you take that away with socialism/communism all that innovation and risk slows to a stop because why the fuck would anyone with half a brain risk every bit of money they have investing in a start-up (or stocks or whatever) if the government is just going to swoop in and tell them they're not allowed to have an in-ground pool because everybody else doesn't have one?

Get the fuck outta here with your gay ass commie bullshit. The only people pushing for this are dipshits who either dropped out of school and want to blame everybody else or entitled prick kids with rich parents who've never had to work a day in their life for anything so they don't even know the value of a dollar. Pack of idiots, tbqh. There's a reason no communist society has ever succeeded and it wasn't some "capitalist conspiracy" it was simple greed. Greed is good in the right context and DOES benefit the people if we're talking about people like Verizon, Apple, Microsoft. Their greed had a net benefit for society. The greed in communist systems just fucks over people because the elite take all the rewards without contributing and the people fucking starve to death.

>>715538716
Yeah, you tell them! A Doctor gets TWO loafs of bread instead of just one.

>>715533100
Because not all humans are capable of being good enough of a human to not succumb to their greed and power. True communism can work but it never has because you cant change the natural Nature of human being so at some point youll end up with a dictotor. Which always happens. Assuming you even like the idea of communism

>>715538606
Have you ever been to communist cuba? I have
I got offers by child prostitutes, drug dealers, etc a dozen times a day, because guess what? If they didn't, they'd die. Cuba survived thanks to it's black market, which was very much capitalist.

>>715538893
>succumb to their greed

>implying it isn't greedy to begrudge successful people in a regulated market

It never existed as a society, and never will.

>>715538431
You get enraged at even the slightest notion that what you believe might be utter folly. A true mark of an imbecile.

>>715538655
i would suggest you are falling prey to arguing the fringe. of course cases like you describe happen, in the US system as well as in USSR. but I don't believe that is GENERALLY true. also, that isn't actually a gov issue, that's a college admissions issue, which is something we already do. unless you have stupid $ or power you aren't gonna get your dumbass kid into the medical program and they aren't gonna pass each year anyway.

but you answer also tells me where your opinion comes from: you value freedom (including freedom to make mistakes) over the greater good of the people as a whole. i tend to disagree but that is a personal value and can't really be argued.

>>715533100
beacuse it doesnt work. Why doesnt it work? Humans are fucked up tahts why.

>>715538855
more like 6 to 8 actually.

>>715538790
You forgot to tip your fedora, retard.
>you'll claim anything to be somehow "biased"
Never used that word, do you really think one person or group opinion is enough to have an objective opinion? You're the type of person that would become fanatic over any dictator's speech.
> I could even take you there, and have you walk among the mass graves
Show me a picture?
>>715539025
I get mad because there is people retarded enough to believe one person opinion is a fact.

>>715538748
There are very few human jobs needed. And they will decline with time. See lights out factories.

The point is that there are going to be too many peoole but too few jobs EVEN if all humans become skilled workers, there's simply not enough jobs.

What will need to happen is an effort from all and the needs of all be fulfilled. This is accomplishes by transitioning to a society where you are paid for the work you do and a worker's base pay is a comfortable life. Where work weeks are shortened. Otherwise, the unforgiving competition of capitalism will lead to mass horrors. Starvation and such.

>>715533100
It works better on paper a concept not stained with humanities greedy nature

>>715539039
>you value freedom (including freedom to make mistakes) over the greater good of the people as a whole. i tend to disagree

You're actually fucking disgusting, and I really mean that from the bottom of my heart.

>>715539191
fuck off troll
here, have a sage (does that actually still work?)

>>715539191
Anyone who thinks you should get freedoms at the expense of others is objectively wrong and deserves torture.

>>715539039
It is extremely hard to predict what the greater good is. We thought fossil fuels would give us a better life, but now we are cooking the planet we live on. The future is nearly impossible to predict and until we can do it with certainty it is irresponsible to put everyone's lives in a flawed system. Why not let each individual find their own "greater good" instead of forcing it upon them?

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Yeah, Cuba sounds nice.

>>715539166
Oh you mean like the kind of horrors in Stalin's Russia?

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>>715539149
One persons opinion? I simply said to talk to a Cuban. Clearly you haven't even done that, which is why it's clear you're simply an idiotic ideologue, which will grasp at even the slightest "evidence" of your point, even if you have to reach past a mountain of evidence against you.
>here you go a USSR gulag.

>>715539279
>sage

Do you actually know what that function does?

>>715534346
Exactly. Greed ends up corrupting the most dangerous threat to the people. The state. The state is the most dangerous threat to the people. Without the state, communism wouldn't be enforceable. RIP communism.

скоро, скоро

>>715538945
You find that shit in any poor country. The US and most of the western world was actively working against Cuba since the revolution, and it's really remarkable that it even survived the fall of the Soviet bloc. If you're going to tell me muh socialism doesn't work cause look at this country that has poverty then just say that outright. Still a stupid fucking argument, but it'd save us some time.

I've been to Havana 5 times and to Santiago once, spent a total of about 18 months. Congrats on your one cruise there, I'm sure you really got enough experience to make an educated critique on Cuban socialism.

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>>715539523

>>715539149
>oh, and my hair is far too pretty for a fedora ;)

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Ideology so sound you have to shoot those that criticize it. Seems legit.

>>715539350
Then why are you here? Do you not think freedom of speech is often at the expense of the people you criticize?

You're a fucking mongoloid m8.

It works for Cuba.

The problem is the country was poor as shit to begin with, and separating themselves from the US made them even poorer.

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>>715534076
the irony being that the one who ordered said execution(who libtard don't think about) will now take the place(and power) of the capitalist and use it to later murder his "comrades" in the long run.

Sad how brain washed people are to believe they have to live for other people.

>>715539747
Actually Cuba was pretty much the trade capital of the new world, and later became a wealthy tourist haven.

>>715534730

> A communist state would require the populous to work voluntarily or force them to
> require the populous to work voluntarily or force them to
> work voluntarily or force them to
> force them to

good luck ever getting that idea to work here in the united states faggot. it will NEVER work. keep starting shit threads and trying to influence the other nations though. Socialism is as far as anyone is ever willing to go. No one will go full retard and instill communism. Not with the taste of freedom already having blessed their lives.

>itt: edgy twenty-something faggots attempt to blame their inadequacies on muh capitalism

you queerbois really aren't any better than radical feminists blaming everything on the patriarchy lmao

>>715539350
>objectively

Might wanna look that word up before you use it in a sentence, nigger.

>>715539549
>I'm a massive retard and think that the significant minority of Cubans in Miami who fled from having their property stolen and get all the US media coverage know the REAL story on Cuba

How gullible are you? More people in Cuba approve of their own government than people in the US.

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>>715539692
thats a great meme right there.

>>715539549
>I simply said to talk to a Cuban
>>715537047
>talked to any Cuban refugees
So you don't even remember what you said?
Obviously a refuge doesn't like the country they left, and obviously you have brain problems.
The picture looks okay, people working.
>>715539675
Nice shitpost, no more "facts"?

>>715533100
communism: everyone eats ok.

capitalist: some eat more and some eat less.

reality: people are savage animals not bound by reason or ideology therefore a big shitstorm you see when you look outside.

>>715533100
it never works and the only people who think it's good are edgy teenagers trying to be contrarian

>>715533100
>"Why do people hate communism the state just takes what's yours and gives you less than what you would've gotten"
You new here?

>>715533100
No matter how much it might work in principal, which I'm still in doubt of, it fails because of the human factor.
No one works when they get paid shit no matter how hard they work.
And no matter how stable a society, you'll still need a government to quell the criminal element, and once you introduce someone who's more powerful than you, well there goes your communism.

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>>715540082
here you go.

>>715539956
>More people in Cuba approve of their government when speaking to state-controlled media because they'll be shot if they disagree.

FTFY

You've clearly never been to Cuba.

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>>715539956
>More people in Cuba approve of their own government than people in the US.
Hard to disagree when you get executed for it lol

>>715539956
>>715539988
>"a" refugee
This is why no one takes you seriously, that's the extent of maturity in your argument, and the fact of the matter is that those "approval numbers" are hardly empirical in a nation run by an autocrat. You keep making my point by clamming a mountain of evidence as false while claiming obvious propaganda as the truth.
>again pathetic

>>715539956

>More people in Cuba approve of their own government than people in the US.

You're implying they were allowed to support or even speak of any other form of government positively.

That's not how a communism works, nigger lover.

>>715539989
>communism: everyone eats ok, except those in the gulag, and those who starve to death
>capitalism: You are free to starve, get fat, get fit or whatever the fuck you want.

Ftfy

>>715539956
>More people in Cuba approve of their own government than people in the US.

It's the same in North Korea :^)

is there even such a thing as an ideal form of government?

theres 7 billion people on this planet. someone is always gonna have an issue with something.

this thread is trash. its almost the same as atheism vs theism threads. pointless and goes in circles forever

In capitalism you work to live.

In communism you work till you die.

>>715540347
Agreed, commiefag is no longer entertaining. It's just sad assclown now.

>>715539989
communism: everyone eats the amount they are allowed to, and not a morsel more or prison for theft.

capitalist: some eat more and some eat less and OP is a faggot.

reality: people are savage bruh not bound by the white races superior intelligence or rational thought therefore a big nigger is what you see when you look at prisons.

>>715540347
>is there even such a thing as an ideal form of government?
Yeah, it's a president, two secretaries, a police department native to the community and a bunch of ballot boxes

>>715540158
Western journalists literally walk freely in the streets of Cuba, there were NYT reporters in Havana covering the memorial service for Fidel just a few weeks ago. How the fuck are you this ignorant

>>715540441
Commiefags are always like this, they get told off, and then think the world is out to get them somehow. I really think they believe that everything outside their little bubble is some grand plot against them.

every one of marx's proposals that have been tried have been unmitigated failures

the guy is a fucking joke to the vast majority of modern economists

t. econ major soon

>>715540246
>a nation run by an autocrat
You clearly know nothing about Cuban laws and the "asamblea nacional del poder popular", you obviously don't know about the political/administrative division of the country or the fact that the communist party cannot participate in elections.
Finally you know nothing about the 3% abstention rate.
>"a" refugee
There is a reason why a refugee is a refugee and every refugee shares that reason.
>mountain of evidence
Literally just anecdotal experience.

>>715540562
>foreigners get treated nicely

wow

Meanwhile if a cuban citizen criticizes thw regime they risk imprisonment

>>715540562
They didn't "walk free" there. They weren't really allowed to do any interviews, and all their footage was checked.

>>715540478
shit would take FOREVER to get done on the federal level. On the flip side, I'm all for the government being shit. I can take care of myself, and if I can't... then may my killer take my possessions and rape my corpse thoroughly.

>>715540608
Why yes typically a dictator that'll kill you for protesting is a good reason to be a refugee, and once again, you're literally using an autocrats propaganda as "proof" which is making you even more of a joke than what you already where.

>>715540347
>capitalism, not perfect economic system but better than anything we've tried before

>communism, imperfect economic system that has failed EVERY SINGLE TIME it's been tried in history

>implying this is any way, shape, or form questionable on the level of atheism and/or theism

wew lad
short bus must've missed picking you up this morning
stop trying to derail the convo because no one's buying your nu-liberal community college marxist dick riding

>>715540608
As for that mountain of evidence, people posted quite a few pictures, of what the government did over there, but I'm guessing those are just totally photoshoped.

THEN IT'S SETTLED.

ALL COMMUNISTS FROM NOW ON ARE AUTOMATICALLY LIBERAL CUCKS IN THEIR 20'S WHO LIKE TO GET FUCKED BY BIG GOVERNMENT FOR THE GREATER GOOD. THIS PUTS THEM AT THE LEVEL OF A COMMON HOMOSEXUAL AND THEY SHOULD BE AVOIDED OR RIDICULED AS SUCH.

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>>715540981
/thread

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If Cuba is such a paradise, why do more than half of Cuban nationals want to MOVE to the US?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/cuba-poll-2015/?tid=a_inl

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>>715536260
>>1. wages were not all the same. there was a range of 1 to somewhere between 8 to 10. 1 being a basic retail shopkeep, 8 being a doc, and 10 being a high level official (minister of X department). That strikes me as a pretty decent real world range for the diff between skating and a really capable person putting in serious effort.
Holy shit. I have made my own theoretical economies based with that idea of payscale. I have 13 levels of pay, but that's because my population is for over 100 billion people. IIRC, my 12th level is about 16 bil, and my 11th population... actually here is a picture of one of my idealized world economies.
Did the Chinese also increase your pay each level by some set percentage? I increase each level by about 30 to 40 percent.

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>>715533100
this would be why

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>>715540998

>>715540212
>>715540259
Except if you retarded cunts actually bothered to know slivers of information about the topics of which you sound off on, you would know that dissent against the government is perfectly legal in Cuba. Journalists were jailed in Cuba for spreading propaganda and falsified smears to bring down Castro, and were often involved in schemes to overthrow the government

>>715540998
Yeah, and let's reverse this question too, why doesn't this guy just go there? Clearly he thinks he'd be happier.

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and this also

>>715540562
Nigger, you truly are fucking stupid.

I've been to Cuba. Just because a guard isn't dragging them around by the arm they're not "freely" walking around anywhere. The have soldiers on every corner, a lot of them in plain clothes, watching every interaction. You think anyone they interview is going to talk shit to a journalist when they can SEE the military guy 50 feet away that's going to come and kill their entire family that night if they say the wrong thing?

How far is your head up your ass exactly?

>>715541079
Of course it's legal, otherwise how would they know who to execute?

>Journalists were jailed in Cuba for spreading propaganda and falsified smears to bring down Castro, and were often involved in schemes to overthrow the government
>being this gullible

>>715541079
riiiiight.
now sir, if you'll look at this brochure, i have some lovely land in florida i think u'd be interested in.

>>715541079
>This just keeps getting better.

>>715541237
u dun no shit
castro was a great guy
just ask the footballer who won't stand up for USA

>>715541079
>journalist dissent against the government is "perfectly legal in cuba"

>every news outlet owned and ran exclusively by that government and it's officials

Are you literally retarded?

That's like me saying tomorrow "Here's a new law that makes it perfectly legal for everyone to keep a dinosaur in their house."

Negating the fact that a dinosaur would never fit in a house, there's nowhere to buy a dinosaur, and they've been extinct for thousands of years sure everybody could totally do it.

>>715541079
Except if you weren't such a statist power bottom your asshole would be able to retain basic shit that everyone knows. Individual rights trump the greater good. If an individual decides it so, they can say fuck the greater good. And there isn't anyone can really do about it. That individual can live off the land and off the grid at their own peril their entire lives if they wish for such a life. They reserve the right to do as they want as long as they don't put anyone else's well being or property at risk. Our government doesn't really permit that, but that is why I work to influence change, and with this authoritarian buffoon in office I may just get my chance.

>>715540851
>a dictator that'll kill you for protesting is a good reason to be a refugee
Yes, but is there any evidence of that happening in Cuba?
>using an autocrats propaganda
You call statistical evidence propaganda, even UNICEF's evidence, are you wearing tinfoil?
>>715540979
The pictures in gray show that it is something that happened during the start of the revolution, something pretty common.
And clearly you don't have anything new.

>>715541142
I've been to Cuba too, and I know personally people who have been taken in by police for speaking badly about Castro. Not once has any of them feared for their lives/livelihood for criticizing the government, because all they fucking did was ask them a few questions to make sure they weren't involved in some kind of conspiracy. No one's family was killed, you just made that up.

>>715541079
This cucks arguments in a nut shell
>The US propaganda is why Cuba is shitty
>Cuban propaganda is all true
>Cuba had to kill those journalist

>>715541580
>is there any evidence of that happening in Cuba?
you're either blind or retarded.

>>715535362
name me one anciet democracy that wasn't conquered by other power. why did the brits tried democracy again, in 1707? we already knew it always ends with enslavement, the same way we know communism always means censorship.

>>715541654
So there is none, if it really happens then it should be easy to prove it.

>>715541611
Did you know the only reason their economy is shit is because of the US blockade?
No other reason.

wanna be a communist?

join a commune

>>715541481
I realize that all media is state run, you purposefully misquoted me to make your rebuttal seem legitimate. What I said was dissent is legal, and journalists that were killed were mostly scum. Nowhere did I contradict myself.

>>715541588
>no one feared for their life
>no one's family was killed
>you just made that up

The Cuba Archive which documents deaths and disappearances resulting from Fidel Castro's Cuban revolution has documented 3,615 firing squad executions conducted by the Cuban state since Castro took over on January 1, 1959.

I guess these guys don't count. They just "asked them a few questions" or something. Fucking clown.

>>715541754
lmao ofc they can't find any evidence of it, they just regurgitate dumb shit they hear on bourgie media

>>715541580
Yeah most of the new photos of Cuba are from spy satellites, and snapshots from controlled reporter visits, and yes a whole shit ton of refugees, all giving the same story is pretty solid proof. As for UNICEF's data that's pretty much a joke seeing as how they've not even been allowed into the nation, and it's part of the UN which has Iran, as the head of the womens rights board.

>>715538183
>Remember that the 1% capitalists own 90% of the wealth.
Im the numbers anon who just posted his notepad.
Your statistic wrong unless you show/prove otherwise.
It's closer to top 20% owning 80% of the wealth in the USA. I'm not sure about worldwide.
>Type USA wealth distribution, receive bacon

I don't like it when people copypasta shit like yours into these threads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Cuba

lmao

>>715533100
What if I want beef?

>>715541833
>since the revolution

??? Do you understand what a revolution is? Do you understand that peaceful exchange of major power structures at the level there was in Cuba is essentially unheard of? Did you not expect any Cubans to put up armed resistance? How retarded are you?

>>715533100
Communism is great on paper. History has taught it soon evolves in to a dictatorship and becomes corrupted beyond belief.

>>715533100
Communism is bad on a societal level. It works in many circumstances, just not societal.

>>715541797
I didn't misquote you at all you fucking commie dick-rider.

You said journalistic dissent against the government is perfectly legal and the analogy I used was perfect.

When every aspect of "journalism" in cuba is controlled, up to and including killing people in the middle of the night for dissent, then the fact it says you can do something on paper alone becomes a moot point altogether. It's a farce, a joke.

It would be so ridiculously stupid for anyone to do it and risk their entire family's lives for typing a few words in the newspaper that no one ever would and it would never make it out of the presses and to the people anyway.

Making it "perfectly legal on paper" is just a way to try and prop up an illusion to the outside world that "communism works" just the same way that the capital in north korea has "fake grocery stores" stuffed with food for foreign journalists to take pictures of but none of the citizens are allowed to shop there and many outside the capital are literally starving to death.

These dictators are fucking braindead if they think an average person would believe their dumb shit.

>>715541766
That's utter idiocy. Even with a totally insular economy they're still far behind what could be considered reasonable progress, and aside from that, the blockade hasn't be seriously enforced in decades, and they've been trading with the EU.
>As for the reason for the blockade
Surprise surprise, if you're a dangerous autocrat, and head of a tiny little nation that decides to put nukes on its land right near a superpower, you just might end up not liking the outcome.

because they think the military can pay for itself somehow and don't realize what would happen if the military disappeared.

>>715533420

That has been the problem, the planned economy. Economics is not a tool of humans, it is a societal phenomenom. A massive problem with Stalinist communism was that eventually they lost idea of what things were worth. They didnt know how much bread, how many eggs, how much milk, to give to people. The state taking over the economy made the country lose all sense of what inherent value things have, as some foodstuffs mean more to some than others. Communism cannot account for this with an entirely state controlled economy, the true will of the people is in combined purchasing power. Why are vegetarian meats disproportionately more expensive than normal meats? The economy of scale created by this unofficial, uncoordinated union of citizens purchasing what they want. With a state controlled economy, that goes out of the window, and ultimately either the majority pay extra, or the minority have to be heavily subsidised to accomodate their needs.

ITT: Degenerates who don't know that someones nature depends on their surroundings and think that they would be shitty all the time because they're an average 4 chan user

>>715534899
Since the beginning on democracy a couple of thousand years ago, it's been said that "people who seek to abuse power seek power". As in, good man doesn't care to be a leader, narcissistic selfish bastards want to be the leaders, and they often are.

In a few years if we manage to develop a proper AI, we can have it decide everything. All humans working together, an artificial construct deciding, with obvious limitations. This kind of communism could work.

>>715540273
>gulag
>us prisons
what about the homeless? are they free?
the point is that people fundamentally fuckup everything.

>>715540466
in the great scheme of things white people are maybe slightly better than everyone else, but still apes.
>1st place
>potato olympics
>you get a ''special'' gold medal

>>715542350
>comparing prisons in america to soviet gulags

truly retarded beyond belief

>>715541916
>Yeah most of the new photos of Cuba are from spy satellites, and snapshots from controlled reporter visits
If they don't want information spread about their country why give free internet access in public places, looks like you believe we're still in cold war. I have a friend that went for Fidel's funeral and he was able to bring photos without problems.
>and yes a whole shit ton of refugees, all giving the same story is pretty solid proof
Dissidents not being happy with a government is natural and does not make a "solid proof" it just makes propaganda.
>they've not even been allowed into the nation
Source? all I get is USA preventing medical aid from reaching the island.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/pdfs/amr250072009eng.pdf

>>715542350
>what about the homeless? are they free?
In the west, yes.

>>715542237
>the true will of the people is in combined purchasing power

I work with a crazy old fuck (really intelligent guy though) who often says, "you vote with your dollar..." and this is unfortunately what leads to corps getting too much power.

>>715542491
"Unhappy dissidents" don't have to seek refuge in other countries, silly.

>>715534715
Even prophetic niggers dont make sense

>>715542343
until the idiot(s) in charge of objectively reading the answers from the AI and putting those answers into action doesn't like what it says one day and decides to tell "the people" it said something else entirely to benefit themselves.

Just give it up. Communism has and always will fail and fuck the people over.

>>715533100
Communism is great "in theory" however for it to work every person must be willing to work to the fullest of their abilities and take only what they need. However this goes against humanity's urge to take the path of least resistance and to obtain as much resource as possible. In short humans arent capable of communism because they are greedy and lazy. Also you cant not reward a person for more.