was there another way to end WW2 that didn't involve killing

Yeah. Invading Japan. Which would have cost probably another 1.5 nillion lives.

..."innocent".

>>714929790
You mean like the Japanese did at Nanjing, or in the Philippines. Do you think if they had the bomb, and used it on US cities they would have felt any remorse?

>>714929790
First of all: WHO THE FUCK CARES IF YOU GET KILLED WITH A NUCLEAR BOMB INSTEAD THROUGH CONVENTIONAL BOMBS?
This is something that bugs me to this day.

Secondly: "Innocent" is a strange word in the concept of the second world war. Civililian structures were attacked by all sides, casulties weren't accepted, they were wanted.

>>714929790
Yea, if we would have asked Russia to tear up their neutrality pact with japan, they would have surrendered asap

>>714929790
Letting Hitler have the countries he invaded. Don't know why they had to provoke a war at all.

>>714930370
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Japanese_War_(1945)
>The Soviet-Japanese War of 1945 (Russian: Советско-японская война; Japanese: ソ連対日参戦, "Soviet Union entry into war against Japan") within the Second World War began on August 9, 1945
They entered late, but they did enter.

>>714930244
If anything nuclear bomb would be the way to go, you pretty much get vaporised instantly versus a shrapnel explosive killing you. But radiation isn't all that fun

>>714929790
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA8DdkM2Wqo

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Yeah it's called having the common fucking sense to not solve your problems by killing people.

It still blows my mind that each country is so braindead that it thinks it's acceptable to send off thousands of men into the army, wasting the previous years of their youth as dogs to government willing to take their lives and brain wash them into feeling like it is honorable and good to die for them.

Fuck the army. Fuck solving problems by killing things. Fuck evil in general. And fuck you Korea.

>>714930370
yeah this is retarded Stalin wanted to help with the war against Japan in order to grab as much land as he could (i.e. Sakhalin)

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>>714929790

>>714930604
Well except you're not exactly below the bomb but in the direct blast radius for stuff shrapnelling in your face and shit. In this position it's probably identical to a conventional bomb. The radiation is another thing, but that's not your immediate problem.

>>714930370
yeah.
We could've let Russia trample Japan but that wasn't in the US's best interests at that point.
We were already gearing up for a future conflict with Russia

>>714930967
Russia could not have pulled off an amphibious invasion of Japan that's stupid

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>>714931107
What?
Why?

>>714929790
Not a good one, OP. All cynicism aside, we kinda bucked up and said "Don't FUCK with us." And we MEANT it.

>>714929790
>Operation Meetinghouse
Nukes are totes the most evillest thing on the planet dude.

>>714930629
Spotted the mindless brainless liberal cuck

>>714931182
Uhhhhh because they were fully militarily committed to occupying half of a different continent and had just fought the most exhausting and destructive war known to mankind?

Because the whole country was being held together through the lend-lease program? Because Russia had never participated in an amphibious invasion before?

(Insert stuff about Japan gearing up for it and impressing civillians into suicide brigades here)

>>714929790
Japanese in 1945, innocent. Pick one.

>>714930408
exactly. why was hitler such a bad guy? I never understood this.

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>>714929790
Killing more than 150k innocents?

>>714931536
Basically, Hitler threatened the establishment and he pushed the other European leaders to breaking point even though they wanted peace. Taking Poland was the last straw.

>Japs
>civilians

They thought we were coming to rape and murder their children, literally everyone in the country would've been fighting. Nukes were a mercy.

>>714931451
Well the soviets would have taken their time with occupying the chinese main land japan currently occupied. This would have taken quiet some time, but considering the speed of the development of the soviets after the second world war they would have stomped the japs if they hadn't made some treaty or some shit.
I'd say the soviets would have taken longer, but had shown the same results.

>>714929790
Yeah, drop more than 2. However, I digress. The Nazis had the final solution... Amateurs.

>>714931669
oH nooo omg a stronger European Union. What an Evil man "taking" poland!1111

>>714931903
you say it like going to war and annexing countries is perfectly normal

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>>714931669

>>714932106
ye

>>714932012
how is it a war if you just let them come in and fix your government?

>>714932012
He[HItler] would've gotten away with it too if he hadn't had such a raging hard on for the East.

>>714930629
>g the common fucking sense to not solve your problems

If we followed your advice you cuckolded faggot, we'd all be speaking German.

Fuck you're the kind of little boy who is shocked when he gets a punch in the face in a bar after running your mouth too long, because you don't even consider that such a thing could happen.

War sucks, but violence is only stopped by more rapid and violent response.

>>714932223
>how is it a war if you just let them come in and fix your government?
That's like saying "hey girls, if you stop resisting and start to like it you cant be raped anymore".

we could have had a land invasion of mainland japan and have an even larger death toll

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>>714932218

>>714932636
I like that analogy, its incredibly fitting

>>714932636
No, its more like saying "hey girl, I can provide you a good life with me as my wife instead of prostituting your self for food every night living on the streets".

>>714931834
The Soviets were going to OCCUPY THE CHINESE MAINLAND?

lol oh god I didn't read the rest of your comment. Look it's cool that you learned history from Command & Conquer video games but you need to stop acting like that entitles you to an opinion.

Soviets occupying China. Awesome.

>>714933192
"And we'll even gas out your kike population while we are at it!"

>>714929790
>150,000 thousand innocent civilians
knowingly and willingly aiding to the war effort
pick one

>>714933395
Well that only happened because of War but you're right about removing the pest population.

yes.

It would have involved killing several million innocent civilians.

>>714933192
Don't pay attention to dumb americans, they were brainwashed since children to believe their country is the best and that they have the best morals.

Listen, fat kids: Winning conventional wars is about breaking your opponent's will to fight - not testing it more and more expensively.

The message we sent by flattening the downtown areas of two small Japanese cities was that we can break your back at no cost.

All other options consisted of us paying a higher, very much higher, or incredibly higher cost. They were shit options.

There is a school of thought which says the bombs were not necessary that Japan was on brink if collapse and the war could have ended without them even taking into account the whole no surrender situation However there's noway america was going to sit on those weapons they needed to show the world and themselves what they could do. A more interesting question would be if Japan surrendered before bombs were dropped how would the post war world be different.

>>714929922
that's bullshit. They wanted a easy and quick way to end the war and hardly considered japs humans so didn't care about civilian losses. and the idea its ethical to slaughter civilians to demoralize the headship of the enemy into surrendering in order to save combat troops is insanity,

The ratio of US troops vs Japanese troops combat losses was massively in the favor of the US it would have been extremely one sided even if the Japaneses somehow doubled their combat effectiveness.
Of course it was in a continual rate of decline and invading japan would hardly have made their situation better.
They would have surrendered at some point anyways. There is no reason to doubt it.

One thing I am not sure is if the even more destructive European bombing campaigns that killed more then the nukes would have been avoidable.
Could the allies have beaten a Germany with its industry intact? Could they have just ignored the arms and ammunition plants in Germany out of compassion for the workers? I dont think it was possible given the technology of the time.
They didn't have precision guided bombs and satellites. What choice did they have?

>>714934240
that is an interesting question indeed

>>714930370
>>714930552
>>714930967
>>714931834
>>714933324

It was a post-war myth that the atomic weapons ended the war. It was in the interests of the US to position itself as all powerful (and to educate their children so).
The approaching Cold War tension did not allow for any recognition of Soviet efforts on both the Eastern Front or in the Pacific theater.

The Soviet invasion of Japanese interests in China, the serious speed of their advance, had a serious affect on the Japanese government/military (which was already unstable).

A case can be made the Soviet invasion had a great psychological influence on Japan's surrender.

You must remember the only significant thing about the nukes was that the damage was from a single bomb (later radiation was unknown to the Japanese). But this was comparatively irrelevant (and not full understood by the Japanese) when compared to the damage already done by air raids on the likes of Tokyo etc. So the nuke influence is not so strong a case.

But that didn't fit the US post-war narrative.

>>714934801
what if

>>714933192
Even better analogy.

Go read about the rape of nanking and tell me the japanese considered their enemies human and that they would not have dropped a bomb on the u.s. if the shoe was on the other foot. I get where alot of you butthurts are coming from and its true that the use of the bombs brought every country to heel and come to play at the trade table and that effect was certainly considered before their use and to this i say, yes no shit. The u.s. clearly seeks to run shit, but heres a little spoiler, so do the heads of governments in several foreign countries across the globe, the only difference? their desires are impotent due to poor choices or simply being broke. Deal with it world, the u.s. is going to flop its dick around wherever it wants because its got all the guns and all the money.

>>714934801
>the idea its ethical to slaughter civilians to demoralize the headship of the enemy into surrendering in order to save combat troops is insanity,

The idea there are ethics in war

> War is failed diplomacy
> War is human beings killing each other
> Those "civilians" would have become solders if the emperor called on them and the others would have formed militias in an invasion

>>714930239

The Japanese wouldn't have dropped a nuclear device on civilians.

Only the democrats would.

>>714936319
Well they had no problem "dealing" with civilians in nanking. This fucking argument is stupid. Two people are fighting to the death and theyre both beaten bloody one of them gets tired and pulls a gun and shoots the other in the head. Moral of the story if youre fighting to the death be prepared to die.

>>714936774

Then Hitler did nothing wrong.

>>714936927
No kidding. Hitler was perfect.

>>714936250
>two off topic points that mean nothing
>"its OK! they All those women, Children and elderly could have been requited at some point! its OK to genocide on the basis of a potential minor threat in the future! Its ok to bomb non combatants on what ifs!"
Thats why its totally cool!
You could just have made the very valid point that bombing civilian targets for military ends was really a mainstream and accepted strategy at the time that was conduct by every nation with a air force in the war.
But you got to come at me with this embarrassing shit.
It wasn't moral, Ethical. Just expedient to destroy entire population centers in a terrorist attack. And lets not pretend it was anything but a terror attack.

But the nice part is how this logic is a pretty good justification for the 9/11 attack, Good job.
"potential threats are valid targets"

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>>714937547
There's that dehumanized Jew rationale

>>714936319
*republicans

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>>714937951

>>714929790
Oy Vey, those evil white people are massacring the innocent minorities all over the world and must be stopped!

>>714930244
the radiation kills you pretty slowly depending on how far away you were
your cells just go "no thanks" while you're basically standing in a microwave oven cooking you from the inside at about 50 celsius

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>>714929790

>>714938646
GO HOME JAPS THIS IS WHITE MANS NEIGHBORHOOD

>>714937547
> Thats why its totally cool!
Yup, thats what I said kid, the bombing of Japan was cool af wish we do it again, grow the fuck up

>>"its OK! they All those women, Children and elderly could have been requited at some point! its OK to genocide on the basis of a potential minor threat in the future! Its ok to bomb non combatants on what ifs!"

Yes, it was justified, it wasn't a what if and they were not minor threats, look at all the people killed by women and children in the Middle East by suicide bombers. Japan had female soldiers and its not a what if whether or not the kids were going to grow up soldiers

> But the nice part is how this logic is a pretty good justification for the 9/11 attack, Good job.

Thank you, 9/11 was justified they wanted war with us so they took out potential threats which is very much valid in war

Its idiots like you who think there's such a thing as "civilized/ethical war" why we have so many wars, you normalize it.

War is war you kill the other side, whether there in uniform or not, its tragic ad shameful but its what war is and if idiots like you let go of the "ethical war" ideology we probably wouldn't be in as many

>>714938951
JEW

>>714929790
>150,000
>innocent
>civilians

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>>714939298
Don't be crazy I am of pure Aryan blood

At the end of the day, if you think we didn't need to bomb them, you're severely mistaken.

>>714939633
This. Seriously, every fucking body has some something culpable, I say NUKE EVERYONE (except for me, of course)

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>>714929790
Even after taking two nukes and tons of conventional bombs the Japs weren't going to surrender. It wasn't until an American pow 'confessed' to them during torture that the US had "like a hundred more or something lol idk dumb jap"


The Japanese government didn't give a fuck how bad the toll would have been to keep fighting until they realized that there was literally zero chance of winning.

>>714939989
t; it was the Jews. The whole war was Jews emboldening both sides and pitting them against each other. WW1 too.

>>714938951
Yes Unarmed currently not fighting non combatants going about their lives in a city in their own country are not a fucking threat. You saying otherwise just makes you fucking stupid.

Im not pretending there is some kinda of romantic war. I'm saying there shouldn't be entire fucking city's wiped off the map because its saves military lives.

Directly trading military lives for civilian lives isnt fucking acceptable, Shouldn't be considered acceptable and wasn't even got damn necessary.
And you pretending (and I mean pretending) just makes you a contrarian internet edgelord.
Yeah nice meme, Pretending not to care about stuff.
super cool

Japan was so utterly defeated it had almost zero ability to conduct a war.
No industry to speak of, Shattered navy, unequipped army by even by the lowest WWI standards.
And no fucking oil or power anything.

>>714929790
That *was* the short version.

>>714941938
Troll harder faggot unless you actually believe that in which case LIBTARD detected go suck muslim dick

sorry i meant goat dick

>>714930408
-.-

This has to be bait. There's not enough stupid in the planet to have infested just this one Anon...

>>714942540
>>714930408
Hitler was a Rothschild. He only wanted to procure that land on behalf of ZIONISTS.

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Who the fuck really cares, they bombed Pearl Harbor & .started the US in that ugly mess you fuckin kek

>>714942670
And kill all the Jewish Zionists in the process?

You have to be a paid Hillary Shill, still trying to pervert the world view with your revisionist history. Or something like a Ronin. You were created into this thing by the Hillary / ISIS machine and now you're loose with a broken master and no real cause but to continue to dismantle society.

This is the only place where you think you have any potency. America still has it's guns, and bombs and there's nothing you're going to be able to do to change that.

Fuck off already.

I've lived in Japan over a decade and I can tell you that the opponents in Japan of the use of the atom bomb, and our military are a vocal minority, and the only reason it's considered a tragedy here is because of children and other innocents who suffered. They are fucking glad that 1. They weren't taken over by Russia , and 2. They didn't end up under a fascist government like Tojo. They just think the deaths of all those civilians was a tragedy but necessary. My best friends grandparents are from Okinawa. The military gathered all the civilians in the middle of town and anyone who refused to be a suicide bomber was beheaded. My wife's dad still remembers the war and the bombs dropping on his town. 40 minutes from Nagasaki. he joined the JDF after and was proud and likes Americans. now they have a badass country and are close with the strongest military in the world. Japanese aren't stupid liberals.

>>714943080
>Pearl Harbor
Heads up: That was a Jewish false flag.

>>714943276
Zionists use Judaism as a cover. They hate all non-Zionist Jews.
And you're a terrible judge of character. Must be stimulus response. I voted for Trump and am EXCITED about his win.

>>714929790
LOL "innocent".

All Japanese are guilty for not ousting their emperor. They got what was coming to them.

>>714943449
Isoroku Yamamoto was a West Point Graduate and had friends in the U.S. Navy.

I expect he attacked when he did to get America into the war before it was too late to have a fighting chance.

I wrote in 'Turd Sandwich' for president. I am glad Hillary lost, and will give Trump his chance.

Calling you a Hillary shill is based on the retardation of your proposition, and remains.

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>>714943896
>ooga booga guns, war, casualty, yee haw
Who's really supporting Hillary and the Jews? I mean, you're just acting exactly like the Jews want you to act.
>muh guns
>muh civil war
>muh race war when
You really gotta get your head out of your ass, you dehumanized jew-pawn piece of shit.

>>714943896
Correction:
*Attended Harvard* and was very affluent in the U.S.

>>714944425
>thinks he knows how international war works
Wow. Got any more leads, Sherlock?

>>714941938
I'm not saying that the bombings were the right thing to do, but you're severely trivializing the military power that Japan still had on the mainland.

>>714944368
>like the Jews want you to act.

I know a lot of Jewish people and I have news for you.

'They' really don't give a shit. It's not a conspiracy. Fuck people get your own heads out of your asses.

>>714944874
>I know a lot of Jewish
Oh shit. He pulled out the trump card! He knows some Jews!

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>>714944874
I have some news for you, Schlomo.

>>714941938
9/10 Bait

> You had me going until this

>>714929790
yeah kill all 10 million lives which took part in the massacre of 10s of thousands of innocents and violated every code of civilized warfare and treatment of prisoners that existed and would have, if allowed, persecuted these horrors on all of the vanquished.
the bombs were a mercy they didn't deserve.

>>714929922
How many is a nillion

>>714929790
"Innocent" is a pretty word that the idiotic use to make things seem "unfair". More should have died, you should be happy so many lived, i am certainly not happy with the death count, it could be higher.

>>714931536
He wasnt, too bad he died.

>>714944731
What power?
A large and unequipped army with no hope of resupply or rescues, marooned on the mainland because their entire navy had been entirely shattered.
No food, No ammo, No medical supplies and no damn oil to speak of. What could they have done? ordered them to construct wooden rafts and start rowing to japan?
This on top of the mathematical certainty that they could not defeat the US in any battle anyways given the raw math. Nothing they could do, Even with information at the time could result in and tactical or strategic victory.

Really all the US had to do was wait unill the few remaining ships ran out of fuel and then truly those troops would have been out of the war.

You have to ask consider why such a large army was sitting in china in the first place with the US winning the war for so long at that point. It wasnt because they liked the view there I can tell you.

>>714945392
>Damage control

>>714942331
Nice meme. But you forgot to call me a cuck.

>>714929790
Their is litterally an infinate amount of possible ways the war could have ended . a nuclear bomb was the fastest and probably one of the more decicive ways to end it though.

>>714929790
We'd probably be having way more wars now. The day everyone saw that destruction we as a species were capable of is the day most civilized countries decided its time to sober the fuck up.

The cold war probably would of Been WW3 if it wasn't for the ever looming threat of nukes.

And now adays the only war is against ISIS who in my opinion need a good nuking. And the little troll man who runs North Korea so he can act vicisous like daddy.

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Fire bombing their wooden cities didn't stop the Japanese. Some thought that only an outright demonstration of superior technology would force the military to admit to Hirohito they could not match western powers. Some thought that the Japanese viciousness towards the Chinese would be repeated if or when they attacked the U.S. mainland. If only the American military industrial complex didn't lie to the president about the number of men required to invade and defeat Japan, or even the amount required for a simple entire defeat of their navy, effect a blockade, and shell any military bases or attempts to stop a blockade. The number of lives lost wasn't necessarily "inevitable" as some say, or thought at the time.

If the US could have demonstrated destroying a less populated area, and ask them to View the destruction demonstration beforehand, telling them how far away to set up their film crews, newsmen, gov't witnesses, and VIP's and safety precautions to use- there might not have been anyone willing to show up to see the first demonstration. But then the second bomb could have been dropped on the same target again at a predetermined time so they could see.
It's true the pilots would have to assume they would be killed or shot down if delivering a demonstration. Perhaps a unilateral temporary cease fire offered by the US to come witness the destruction of an island we just Liberated, including film crews from any country willing to show up. And when Japan has to send a crew to film the second one for themselves the film might not ever have been seen by Hirohito. It would have been suppressed.

We can't second guess to death All the actions of parties to war, but we can find them guilty of not discussing alternate means when years later the documents are unsealed and we find every detail laid out, and no discussion of alternate targets. It Had to be the Japanese mainland. It Had to be a military target with civilian witnesses.

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>>714946243
> Japan didn't do nuffin

>>714934240
This is true but the Japanese dont surrender they needed an unpresidented amount of coercion to do it. They would rather die then face dishonor or what not . Also i thought the second bomb was detonated after they surrendered.