>>712988818 I don't hurt and steal because I have no desire to. I'm addicted to the rush of making other people happy, and those actions go against that. Atheism doesn't mean a lack of morality, if anything I think that someone refraining from these actions because of nothing but a fear of hell represents a lack of morality.
>>712988818 atheists are cancer. Luckily society's immune system is pretty good, atheists commit suicide and die of drug overdoses more than any other religion. In addition, only young egotistical males become atheistic. They mostly grow out of it or get really fucking creepy and dedicate their whole lives to it like model train collectors.
>>712990988 >mostly drug addled suicidal/egotistical young men that hold the belief that there's no God. >that has no bearing! If only people with their hands sand blasted off believed grabbing sand blasters was a good idea, would you agree? Atheism is for retarded little kids.
>>712991717 Well we've already established atheists aren't happy (high suicide rate and drug abuse rate). So even if that was relevant (it's not, children are super happy but useless) it doesn't work in your favor.
>>712992042 >implying you're not just an atheist so you can have an undeserved sense of superiority. >>712991947 That's actually exactly what that proves. >>712992083 Search it for yourself, drug addicts that are atheists almost never recover. That's why AA encourages belief in a higher power. It gives you a huge advantage when it comes to doing something hard but ultimately beneficial aka being an adult.
>>712992197 lol no I'm an atheist because I don't believe in God. That statement leads me to believe you only believe in God because it gives you a sense of superiority. Either that or you secretly feel inferior to atheists.
>>712992283 They can't. atheists are unhappy and want to believe in God but they don't want to let go of that smug sense of superiority. The ironing is they can't be successful until they learn they're nothing compared to God.
>>712992760 >>712992824 Two females, both happy and drug free atheists. On /b/. This is the problem with atheists, they lie to you and they lie to themselves. You'll grow out of it. Atheism is like being a liberal, the vast majority of people grow out if it by 25 or so.
Well there are the systems of control we have in our society now. There's not just punishment by the state but we also have social taboos and such and "wrong" behaviour will be met with some soicial retribution.
But generally speaking. Morality doesn't have to stem from some sort of authority. Spiritual or not. Morality can be developed by looking at whats's beneficial to a society and what not.
So there can be a moral compass based on what actions are the most useful for all and what actions are not.
>>712990880 Apart from the fact that you base your argument on solely subjective impressions that you have gotten from your biased point of view what you say means nothing when we look at it from another point of view.
For example " only young egotistical males become atheistic" can mean so much to so many people. But anyways.
If you believe that being religious will somehow make you a better person then I wonder why you seem like someone with so little empathy or compassion for people.
>>712993588 Because I'm not religious. I'm what you define as an atheist, but I define myself as an agnostic since I don't lean either way. Honestly, faith is silly and emotional. Most people need it though.
>>712993286 I think saying that morality is derived from whats good for society is too far from the point. If anything, its based on people's interactions with one another in relation to harm or help and whether or not those actions are justified.
>>712988818 You're saying you'd do all of those things if you didn't believe in God? So basically, the only thing that makes you a good person is the fact that you think you'll get a huge reward. When an atheist does something good, it's out of kindness, not because we think bad things will happen. You literally just pointed out an argument against yourself. Why don't you reply for once instead of posting this crap then hiding.
I love when people totally show their asses by asking this question, basically admitting that if they thought for one second Sky Daddy wasn't around to spank them, they'd turn into murderous, thieving, raping hedonism vampire out to drain their fellow man of everything they can take before expiring.
That makes you a real piece of shit to atheists, but it's even worse if you're a Christian. If you actually read your own fucking bible, you'd see that God knows when you're paying lip service and when you're truly walking his path, it goes beyond being good for goodness sake. You have to feel it, too. Being an inch away from turning into a psychopath isn't very Christ-like.
You don't need a fictional creature who scares you with a burning pit. You're human and thus capable of seperating wrong from right. Your brain recognizes things like agony and sadness as a result of the action/damage you inflicted, and tells you it's not okay. Only retards need religion to stay good.
The fact that humans have outlawed slavery in most of the world is proof enough that Humanity has a moral compass without the word of God. I guess God forgot to let Humanity know that slavery was wrong in the Ten Commandments forgot to let Humanity know that slavery was wrong in 2/10 minutes
>>712994232 >Wants me to type the longhand form of Xtianity >Ignoring that Deontological Ethics have been around since the Ancient Greeks >Thinking Judaism === Xtianity >me, still being b8ed because bored otherwise
You see, the genius of this troll is that the questions asked aren't actual hard questions, they are the easy questions that have easy answers. That draws in so many more idiots to take the bait and comment.
Uh, it's the same for religion, functionally what is the difference between prison and hell? You'll go to an argument of omnipresence, that police can fail and god cannot. If that's the case, though, why do any theists commit any crimes? They clearly do, in fact they seem to commit more crimes than atheists rather than less. Maybe presenting them with an all or nothing proposition to reprisal was foolish, maybe a man who believes he is already damned is vastly more dangerous than a man who merely believes he might be able to get away with a given thing.
Actually, forget "maybe", because it's overwhelmingly obvious that's the case. Present a functional difference between your philosophy and that of and a member of ISIS. Do it. Do it now.
>>712994127 Yes, but the fact that humans also used the immorality (according to the Christian definition of morality) of slavery as a reason for abolishing slavery shows that Christianity enforces morals.
You can also argue that slave owners believed that the Bible protected their right to slavery, but they were discredited and viewed as hypocrites. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was based more on economics; it was a matter of social status.
>>712994180 >a lot of priests rape little boys >Catholic priests
>>712994184 [Citation needed] >atheists commit suicide more often
>>712995015 You mean ch + r. X is simpler, and thus, I'll use it.
>Guilty conscience I have nothing to feel 'guilty' about, nor do I need to pray to some time-traveling sky-wizard to feel good about anything.
>Christian morals and values shaped you into-- Nope. The Xtians I grew up with turned out to be nothing more than a league of hypocrites and bigots, with their very lifestyles contradicting everything they preach about. Hell, one of my cousins is a GAY PASTOR and has FULL-BLOWN AIDS. He's only kept alive today because he's been given body parts when his own shut down (thank modern medical science) and not paying taxes as being part of a church. Meanwhile, as an adult, I've noticed the most level-headed folks tend to be the least religious, especially my professors to whom I owe a great deal of gratitude [sic] for teaching me about subjects not related to religion.
>some people need to be kept in-line Then those people aren't really as 'good' as they say they are, are they? It'd rather someone be genuinely kind and thoughtful rather than only pretending to be out of fear of some repercussion if they aren't. As another Anon pointed out, if you need the threat of violence to be 'good,' then you aren't really 'good.'
>>712995268 >Xtianity existed long before the Greeks No. I'm pretty sure it existed a little after the Common Era, after which a bunch of people in the desert though Jesus was the prophet they had been waiting for. This is what separated the Jews from the Non-Jews. >being a theist doesn't mean you ignore science You sure about that? We're talking about a people who, a large chunk of them, honestly believe the earth is flat and the cosmos don't really exist. And don't you dare say, "intelligent design."
>>712994693 >little more than a petulant child with anger issues What makes you think that? (or maybe your hatred of God clouds your judgement and causes you to misinterpret his actions)
>picture Consider what the paradox says in the very first sentence: either God cannot abolish evil or God chooses not to. That's it. It only considers two options; it doesn't consider (for sake of argument) that maybe God is allowing evil or perhaps there's a reason why the evil is there in the first place. I bring this up only because Hume himself (a philosopher atheists love to quote) admitted to the possibility:
"His wisdom is infinite: He is never mistaken in choosing the means to any end: But the course of nature tends not to human or animal felicity: Therefore it is not established for that purpose. Through the whole compass of human knowledge, there are no inferences more certain and infallible than these. In what respect, then, do his benevolence and mercy resemble the benevolence and mercy of men?"
If you're going to call something evil, okay, but you need to establish on what basis something is evil.
Last I checked, man is free to commit evil or good. That is not to say they always make the better choice but this does say at least the choice is there. The paradox doesn't address that.man in the end is responsible for how he treats other people. I don't see how God could even come close to blame in light of this.
>>712995615 >what makes you think that Because he is often described as a 'jealous god,' and is apparently willing to flood the earth and kill millions over a few who decided to stop kissing his feet.
>picture and free will But is it really 'free will' if this so-called 'god' already knows what you're going to do, how you're going to do it, how you'll respond to the consequences, and still punish or reward you for it? How is any o fit 'free' if it's already been predetermined? If it's not predetermined, then 'god' is not omnipotent, and thus, not a god.
>angry I literally have nothing to be upset about here.
>>712995489 >Xtianity existed long before the Greeks I never said that Christianity existed before the Greeks. I said that "religion" existed before the Greeks.
>people, who, a large chunk of them, honestly believe the earth is flat and the cosmos don't really exist Perhaps in the dark ages that was the case (due to the culture and lack of science/books in that age). However, in 2016, only conspiracy theorists and hicks believe the things you mentioned.
>Christians I grew up with >implying that all Christians are like the ones you grew up with
>gay pastor You speak about degenerate Protestants as if they represent true Christianity. You speak about "level headed folks" yet blast Christianity (the same can be said about your pictures) with intense hatred, thus showing your hypocrisy.
>>712988818 >What keeps an atheist from murdering and stealing all they want? I have a life, OP. I have my family, and my friends. I have my entertainment. I don't need to do any crimes. I can live my life without thinking/prasing god
>>712996420 >I never said Xtianity existed before the Greeks Pretty sure you did, but if not, this is why we need IDs back.
>only conspiracy theorists and hicks believe that You clearly don't associate with my Xtians on any given day. Grown adults, many twice my age, honestly believing in pic related.
>implying all Xtians are the same as you grew up with Of course not; that's why I specified that they're the ones *I* grew up with. I'm sure you talk to any other atheist, they can tell you some pretty ridiculous and downright disgusting things they've seen so-called 'good Christians' doing as they've grown up.
>gay pastor is a degenerate Protestant actually, the one in question is a Baptist, but it doesn't surprise me that Protestants do the same. As do Catholics, as do AME's, as do pretty much any denomination of Xtianity or any dogmatic/Abrahamic faith.
>you blast Xtianity with intense hatred No, I actually don't. Bringing light to the immense contradictions of the Bible and Xtian-life is not 'hatred,' it's truth. Sorry if it hurts your feelings to learn the myths you were told to believe in don't match reality, and even contradict themselves.
>>712988818 What keeps an religious person from murdering and stealing all they want? The fear of reprisal? Is the fear of hell the only thing preventing an utter breakdown of society by those with no moral compass?
>>712995771 Let me correct my previous statement. God knows what we will do, but he doesn't do anything to change the course of our lives (he just gives us signs that what we are doing is wrong)
>>712995977 >jealousy God is speaking of people making idols and bowing down and worshiping those idols instead of giving God the worship that belongs to Him alone. God is possessive of the worship and service that belong to Him. It is a sin (as God points out in this commandment) to worship or serve anything other than God. It is a sin when we desire, or we are envious, or we are jealous of someone because he has something that we do not have. It is a different use of the word “jealous” when God says He is jealous. What He is jealous of belongs to Him; worship and service belong to Him alone, and are to be given to Him alone.
>flood the earth Because man had become wicked and corrupt (not because they were pagans)
>free will We have free will and God knows what we will do. When we have to make a decision we ultimately make the decision but, God knows what we will choose. We are not puppets but the director of our lives does know the things we choose. He is not the director of our lives but the observer
>>712988818 What keeps a theist from murdering and stealing all they want? The fear of reprisal after they die? Is the fear of hell the only thing preventing an utter breakdown of society by those with no moral compass?
>>712997223 >isn't jealous >wants people to worship him and him alone >failure to do this will result in eternal punishment >make your entire life about serving Him, so that you can make your afterlife also about serving Him How does this not sound like someone with severe insecurity issues? You could replace "Him" with any person's actual name, and it will sound every bit like an abusive relationship.
>kill everyone because they had become wicked and corrupt If he were truly 'god,' he'd have seen that coming and prevented it.
>free will Then he shouldn't have killed anyone for what he knew was going to happen anyway as a part of his 'plan.' An 'observer' would do just that: observe, and not punish or reward based on those observations.
>>712997877 >here's what I said But even then, you're implying all religions that predate Xtianity are exactly like Xtianity, or are dogmatic like it. Both of which would be false.
>your Xtians aren't mine Yet the common thread is that they believe in an omnipotent sky-wizard, and they both have their own collection of myths that can't be backed by anything other than anecdotal belief.
>All Christian denominations are degenerate >Only be Orthodox Then you can't be on the computer right now.
>your negative language...anger Again, sorry if it hurts your feelings, but I'm not going to sugar-coat it just so you can feel better about yourself.
>>712997544 >wants people to worship him Assuming that God is real, he created humanity. Thus, he deserves to be followed by his creation.
>failure to do this will result in eternal punishment >implying that God doesn't give you second chances and signs throughout your life God's will is not to damn you to hell. He gives you chances to redeem yourself, but if you consistently choose to sin, you choose your own fate. If you sin for your entire life, you go to the domain of sin in the afterlife.
>make your entire life about serving him You make it sound as if he wants us to physically serve him. We can serve him by doing good deeds and praying
>he'd have prevented it No, he wouldn't have, because that would violate our free will
>observe He doesn't punish or observe; he allows us to choose for ourselves (if we choose bad he will give us indications that we are on the road to hell; to not do that would imply that he does not care about our fate).
He never "planned" anything. He knew it would happened, he gave humanity chances, but it happened anyway.
>>712998194 >Learn2bible Why would I need to read a book that makes your god look like he has a personallity when in reality with all the "omni" titles he has. He would just be the universe and guess what the universe can talk to us but not through delusion.
>>712997938 >implying that all atheists are angry >all =/= most
>>712998265 Yes, but the law can't control that which it doesn't see (pedophilia and murder can happen behind closed doors)
>>712998299 >I'm implying that all religions that predate Xtianity are exactly like Xtianity What you think I meant to say is different from what I actually said. I said "religion", as in "theism".
>your Xtians aren't mine The Christians you've met do not represent the entire face of Christianity. >can't be backed by anything >Kalam Cosmological Argument >Anthropic Principle >no evidence for a multiverse >miracles >fulfilled predictions in the scriptures >the fact that nothing can't explode >the fact that life can't come from a lack of life
>you can't be on the computer right now Says who?
>sorry if it hurts my feelings It doesn't hurt my feelings. I just felt the need to protect my religion
>>712998511 >assuming Ah, and that's where you should have stopped. If you base your life on an assumption, you should probably reevaluate your real reason for living as you do: because you are genuinely 'good' and want what's best for people, or you've been told to think you should want what's best for people so you don't suffer for all eternity.
>god gives you a chance to avoid hell Think about this for a second: if god is as benevolent and powerful as he supposedly is, why would he create anything that could rival him or potentially take away followers? Why would he allow a place where suffering is rampant to exist if it weren't all purely for his amusement? If I were all-powerful, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't create someone equal in power/influence to me, or otherwise allow competition if metaphorical ants worshiping me were truly *that* important.
>we can serve him by doing good deeds Which harks back to an earlier question: why would you need the notion of some ominpotent being or the threat of eternal 'damnation' just to do what's right? If you do, you're not as 'good' as you say you are.
>he wouldn't have, or it would have violated free will Again, ask yourself what 'free will' really is if everything is already known and predetermined. Also, it would have been his own free will violated, not the illusion of ours.
>he doesn't punish Yet he apparently flooded the planet because, as you said, "they had all become corrupt and wicked." That's not something a mere spectator does.
>he never planned anything...knew it would happen...gave chances What's the point of giving chances if you already know what's going to happen? Again, it sounds like he's just being selfish and we're being used as characters in a game if that's the case.
>>712999228 >it can't prevent all immorality Well stop trying to control immorality, you idiot. There will always be good and bad no matter what you do. >>712999228 >Implying most are mad >Getting most of his info from the media Good goy
>>712999228 >'religion' as in 'theism' And again, you can't say that all religion is theistic. You certainly can't say that all religion that *is* theistic is also dogmatic. False equivalence.
>The Xtians you met don't represent all Xtians I've already said I'm aware of this, but you seem more than willing to bundle all atheists into one box and wrap it with a neat bow.
>who says I can't be on the computer? Says Orthodox Xtianity. In fact, there are many things you're not supposed to do, but I'll bet you do anyway and alter your interpretation of them so it will fit your narrative/lifestyle.
>I just need to protect my religion No one's attacking it. Perhaps if you feel otherwise, you shouldn't go around telling everyone about it and condemning those of us without religion, unless you're prepared to deal with the backlash.
And before you say it, >Freedom of speech !== freedom from consequence
>>712997877 >The fear of committing a sin and thus decreasing your chance of salvation keeps them from crime, as well as the law. Not really, you can murder all you want and then just ask for forgiveness. The law is the only thing actually keeping people from killing each other. Even God himself doesn't do that, he lets you do whatever you want and only punishes you after you die, so who's the real crime fighter here?
>Yes, but the law is not omnipotent. What the fuck? That's the most retarded argument I've ever heard. The law doesn't need to be omnipotent to stop people from committing crimes, people aren't gods.
Welcome to 4chan, on this board you may find: B8ting and Cunts. Personally i don't give a shit about any of your bullshit here, anyone. But i will recommend both Blargsnarf and Shadman as great artist that produce art for all ages.
>>712988818 >those with no moral compass? Right there is your mistake. It is precisely because those who have moral compasses live good, ethical lives. This is independent of religious stance. P.S. You're an idiot.
>>713000366 What are you talking about? It's a rhetorical question. The law is clearly more of a crime fighter than God, because the law doesn't let you murder and steal all you want and only punish you after you've already done the damage and died.
>>712999228 >Yes, but the law can't control that which it doesn't see (pedophilia and murder can happen behind closed doors) Just because the law doesn't prevent every single crime, doesn't mean it's not stopping and discouraging people from murdering and stealing. You really underestimate how hard it is to get away with murder. Besides, who's really the best at stopping crimes? The law, which punishes you as soon as you commit a crime with a 0,0001% chance of getting away with it? Or God, who doesn't stop any crime whatsoever but has a 100% chance of punishing you after you die unless you ask for forgiveness? If the law didn't exact, there is literally nothing stopping criminals from committing crimes.
>>713001361 I wasn't saying there's an afterlife, you fucking retard. I was saying that hypothetically, if hell and God existed, that the law would be a much better crime fighter than God ever would. So saying "hurr, there is nothing stopping atheists from murdering, durrrrr" is absolutely retarded.
>>713002314 >if hell and God existed, that the law would be a much better crime fighter than God ever would They already are. Try not to control thought, anon. It makes you look like a faggot. Let people be pedophiles I'm sure one day they might get caught unless they are feeding their urges through Hentai. >So saying "hurr, there is nothing stopping atheists from murdering, durrrrr" is absolutely retarded. Nice assumption. I never said that. I was only saying I don't believe in your afterlife to get you salty and bite my hook.
>>713002508 >To truly keep people from being immoral and stop all crime (because you say it is what keeps people from crime) it needs to be omnipotent. Fuck your thought control. To each their own, faggot. But that is some seriously dangerous thinking you got there.
>>713002704 >They already are. Try not to control thought, anon. It makes you look like a faggot. Let people be pedophiles I'm sure one day they might get caught unless they are feeding their urges through Hentai. They already are what? And pedophiles? What the fuck are you talking about? None of what you wrote made any sense, are you sure you replied to the right person? If you're claiming that the law doesn't stop pedos, then you're retarded and wrong because last time I checked, child molestation is illegal.
>Nice assumption. I never said that. I was only saying I don't believe in your afterlife to get you salty and bite my hook. Are you literally this retarded? Learn how to read, you dumb fuck. First of all, I never even said there is an afterlife, so how can I be "salty" that you don't believe in one? I don't give a shit. Secondly, I never said that you claim nothing stops atheists from murdering, I wasn't even talking to your dumb ass in the first place. It was an argument for OP.
>>713003708 >Are you literally this retarded? Learn how to read, you dumb fuck. First of all, I never even said there is an afterlife, so how can I be "salty" that you don't believe in one? I don't give a shit. Secondly, I never said that you claim nothing stops atheists from murdering, I wasn't even talking to your dumb ass in the first place. It was an argument for OP. I'm just posting to get (you) triggered, faggot. Seems like it's working.
>>713002508 >If he did something there wouldn't be free will. Otherwise, he does fight crime because criminals receive their punishment after death If the police only arrested you on your deathbed, you think that would stop criminals from committing crimes? No, it wouldn't make a difference, it would be as if the police were never there in the first place.
>To truly keep people from being immoral and stop all crime (because you say it is what keeps people from crime) it needs to be omnipotent. Yes, but here is the thing. God doesn't stop all crimes either, in fact, he doesn't even stop a single crime, and you can get pardoned for all your crimes by simply asking for forgiveness, so how the hell is he better at fighting crime than the law which actually prevents people from doing them? The law may stop every single crime, but it's still a million times better at doing it than God.
>>713002508 >If he did something there wouldn't be free will. If sending people to hell doesn't count as violating their free will, then why would it violate people's free will if God punished them as soon as/right before they committed a sin? Your logic makes no sense.
>>712988818 I mean sure, if you think that everyone is incapable of empathy. I would guess that a fair number of people don't commit those acts because they can imagine how it would feel to be the victim.
>>713010667 >Hates Israel. Antisemitism. >Thinks Jews control the world through banking. Antisemitism. >Believes Marriage is a heterosexual union. Traditionalism. >Believe women shouldn't have equal rights to men. Traditionalism. >Believe husbands should work and provide while their wives stay at home Traditionalism. >Reject the Old Testament for being written by Jews. Antisemitism. >Opposed to other cultures integrating. Traditionalism. >Want a return to the Monarchy. Traditionalism. >Against immigration and don't want to help Syrian refugees. Traditionalism. >Believes the West is full of degeneracy and should take on traditional values Traditionalism.
>>712988818 >What keeps a theist from murdering and stealing all they want? The fear of reprisal? Is the fear of hell the only thing preventing an utter breakdown of society by those with no moral compass?
>>713009872 >They reject the modern state (cuz it's all run by jooz) and want things to go back to the way it was in "Old Europe." >implying being a traditionalist means you want a dictatorship and a theocratic absolute monarchy. Retard detected.
>>712988818 The pointer on my moral compass is my twitching, rock-hard penis. Whenever I even think of that beautiful face it swings right around and unerringly forces its way past those luscious lips and back into her slender throat as she cries out and gasps for air. I navigate my way past her tonsils as I skull fuck her and then sail on to shoot gob after gob of sticky sperm over her eyes and nose and hair. My next voyage will surely be to eat her delicious and youthful pussy, which she has begun to really enjoy
>>713013182 And you're showing me this why? It's a biased strawman chart just like the last one. All ideologies have some similarities. You're acting as if this is weird. And 'deus vult'? Firstly, alt-righters aren't extremist Christians. Secondly, SJWs and extremist Christians have similarities too. So what? It doesn't prove anything, you idiot.
>>712992953 I'm 30, atheist, married and gainfully employed. You'll give me a troll answer I won't give a shit about, because I'm not a beta troll heavily breathing through giggles at my "master baiting." Enjoy death by feline dander asphyxiation, faggot.
>>713014962 >look at Germany, the UK, France and Sweden Wait doesn't sweed get hate for being so much atheistic there? You know that taking what i post sersourly on this thread makes me Kekle at your dismay.
Hahaha, jesus. You know you can't just make shit up, right? Good lord, he doesn't even know about the awoo guard dogs. Your perception of /pol/ as genuine fascists is equivalent to looking at a camo-patterned tarp from a helicopter and believing it's just another patch of forest. You'll believe they're "nazis" right up until the very end when they purge your bloated boomer overlords from even the darkest corners of university culture. Good lord, we're actually getting away with it, the awoos will safeguard the core of our culture from people like this idiot for years to come.
>>713015112 >Wait doesn't sweed get hate for being so much atheistic there? No, why would anyone care if a country is atheistic? Sweden gets hate because their cucked socialist government and prime minister is letting Muslims ruin and islamize their country.
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