>>679816653 B12 comes from water and since the farm animals can't get enough of it they just supplement them. So instead of taking a B12 supplement directy, you would rather take it through an animal corpse?
>>679816355 Because I need BCAAs Because I need Creatine Because I need Vitamin B12 Because I need different folds of protein And I don't need to supplement these because I eat meet. Why are you vegan OP?
>>679816355 I'd like to be vegan, at least vegetarian, but only because being a meat eater is killing the Earth. Only problem is that just one person sacrificing meat intake isn't going to change anything, it will just make all my food taste worse. So, until there is a mass movement of anti-meat or whatever, I'll stay a omnivore.
>>679816625 Are you capturing and killing your meat in this day and age? No, you just go to your nearest supermarket for your meat. So this argument is retarded. Are animals captured or are they tortured and sliced open in an enclosed farm?
>>679817071 Don't even know what peta is. My reasoning is that animals take much more resources to raise and slaughter, and take up more space and time. This isn't a problem, but due to the world entering overpopulation within the next 50-100 years, it will be. The only way we can sustain a world with over 10 billion people is to increase farmland and decrease any sort of pastures for animals. The sooner we can stop meat production, the better off we will be.
I still hunt in this day in age but in fairness i shop at the grocery store as well. I like deer because it is the ultimate free range and cruelty free meat. Veganism is okay as long as you dont push it on children and housrlepets
It's not like I don't feel guilty about the animals everytime I take a bite, but fuck, dude, they're being killed anyway, there's no way to stop that, if I didnt eat it shops will just throw it away I'm not perpetuating animal killings by eating it, if I stopped meat would still be sold
>>679816653 That's the only supplement I take on account of being vegan. Humans are shit at absorbing it, and b12 is dirt cheap and impossible to overdose, so everyone should be taking some just to be safe.
>>679816918 Do really thing you are going to eat 10 pounds of food a day?
>>679817001 Last year, December during deer season. Enough food to last you month you weakling.
>>679817140 >So this argument is retarded. Are animals captured or are they tortured and sliced open in an enclosed farm? Why would you torture? Kill on site and take it back home. Even a wild pig and provide enough for a few weeks
>>679817360 >Farming requires a ton more skill. Your dumbass inbred pets can hunt. Anon, our ancestors hunted for a living, you are what they call the berry pickers
>>679817915 I was referencing to farm conditions, where animals are tortured and killed. If u actually are hunting your own food and eating it all, good for you, I have nothing against that, but I doubt you really are.
>>679817972 Kek, asks why you aren't vegan give a valid health reason backup with a peer reviewed sciencific paper. Anon refutes by saying I cherry picked and claims there are plenty papers saying the opposite but won't post one.
>>679817174 Alright, im not going to argue about B12 since I haven't researched it in depht yet. But out of two options which seems more logical- eat meat which increases all cause mortality risk, heart disease risk, diabetes risk, obesity risk, cancer risk JUST to get one isolated vitamin? Or to take the damn B12 supplement and none of the bullshit that comes with meat?
>>679818189 I'm sure at certain lifts and overall he is stronger, it does not change the fact a vegan holds world records in certain lifts. He also has done many interviews, his veganism improved his recovery time and power gains. There is also 300LB NFL David Carter who said the same thing about recovery. Oh there is also Nate Diaz UFC fighter who smashed the fuck out Mcgregor. Vegans breh.
>>679817915 Last December was 3 months ago, have you not had a meal from xmas? You are getting on like you are some sort of hard man when in reality you need a high powered tool to kill a defenceless animal from a safe distance you fag. i am weakling enough to not need a rifle to kill something you inbred neck beard piece of shit
>Vitamin B12 deficiency can potentially cause severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system. At levels only slightly lower than normal, a range of symptoms such as fatigue, depression, and poor memory may be experienced. Vitamin B12 deficiency can also cause symptoms of mania and psychosis.
The amount of ignorance meat eaters have on this subject amazes me. They don't know, or don't give give a fuck that raising animals for food is the most resource intense and inefficient process man kind takes part in. Since I know most of you knuckle draggers are too stupid to actually research the subject I will end my rant by saying fuck humanity. As a species we are ignorant fucks that deserve the fate our selfish actions will bring us. We don't deserve this beautiful planet. Durr durr fuck the planet, meat is yummy
>>679819198 We have to feed plants to animals for them to grow so you kill more of both, faggot.
To the other vegans here with me, we must be blunt and correct stupid shit like this, we will take over, we are right.
>>679819027 Animals are fed supplements and then you eat them and gain the b12. Taking them yourself is just cutting out the middle-man. We used to have natural B12 but we kinda fucked that up. Also only around 4% of the planet is vegan, you think all those supplement stores are made for vegans? Don't be stupid every gets deficiencies. The world health organisation has undeniably stated a vegan diet is appropriate for any stage in life. If you wiki "Bluezones" (Places where the average life expectancy is far higher than anywhere else, less cancer etc) They eat around 5% of their food from animals rest is vegan and many don't eat meat at all.
>>679818436 Humans are built to digest fruit. We are not carnivores that is why our teeth are straight and not sharp. Meat ruins our digestion and clogs out arteries and eventually kills us by giving us dodgy hearts and immune systems. The healthiest people on earth are vegans and that is a fact proven by various studies worldwide
>>679819256 A very valid point, despite the fact you made it like a whiny child. I hope our technology for growing meat without the animal improves quickly enough that we can have meat in our diets without killing everyone in the process.
>>679819782 >We are not carnivores that is why our teeth are straight and not sharp
I want you feel or take a picture of the 8 teeth in the very front of your mouth (both upper and lower). They are sharp, we are omnivores, it was thought that the introduction of meat into our early ancestors diets was a major reason form brain development (interesting b12 is in meat and lack of b12 is known for mental problems)
>>679819782 >teeth not sharp Are you retarded? Humans have sharpened canines explicitly designed to tear apart meat, and our molars aren't just for grinding plants- they'll grind ANYTHING. Our diet is supposed to be PRIMARILY fruits and veggies, yes, but it's also supposed to include 2-3 servings of meat in a day.
Really how come we do not have enzymes that other animals have to digest all carbohydrates form them then?...inulinases, pectinases, cellulases...since simple carbohydrates are used for glycolysis to create ATP which is the energy currency of life?
>>679820227 They are for cutting, not for tearing like carnivores teeth are, also it wasn't because we switched to meat but because we started cooking our food so that takes up less of our time chewing and more time to do other things like learn >>679820340 If we were meant to be carnivores then our digestion would be able to cope with raw meat. But what happens when humans eat raw meat? We get extremely sick and it can kill us. Yeah definitely carnivores..
Every time I try to stop eating meat I find it too hard. I would feel better about eating meat if the animals weren't treated like complete Fucking shit, being confined to a small shithole and overfed.
>>679820340 If a human bites you in the arm vs a small carnivore like a cat or dog bites you in the arm, what is going to do the most damage? Yeah our teeth are designed to eat meat alright. Learn some biology..
>>679821286 >they are for cutting, not for tearing like carnivores teeth are.
Kek, cutting tearing...that just semantics. Why dont elephants have them to tear their food? or what because they are herbivores and dont need them
>to meat but because we started cooking our food so that takes up less of our time chewing and more time to do other things like learn you are right that cooking food make it easy to eat and was used for mainly meat. You dont really have to cook fruits
>>679821412 >mfw nutritional guides >mfw people still have sharp teeth clearly designed for meat >don't believe in god >not knowing man has eaten meat since before recorded history because of its nutritional value >not understanding that humans evolved as pack hunters
>>679821286 Early man DID eat raw meat before he learned to cook it. And some humans do still eat raw meat today without getting sick, although it's now quite rare due to the risk of bacterial infection.
>>679820798 Sunken eyes and a shit accent. I remember back in school 125 nothings pumping out 100 pushups and practically running up ropes, but they couldn't bench their own body weight. I could. The guy in the vid is lean, but I wouldn't call him built.
>>679822561 a human mouth can break skin, dont kid youself.
And Im going to repeat myself again here If we were designed (by evolution) to eat fruit why do lack enzymes to fully digest it? Why do we not have cellulases, pectinases, inulinases, etc to break down the all carbs in fruit? You'd think if we were meant to eat only fruit and veggies our bodies would take all the available resources from them as other animals do
>>679821879 Pack hunters. So what. We lived in tribes and in working together in tribes to brave off the elements and threats to learn information and pass it on through teaching others. That has nothing to do with eating meat. It has more to do with opposable thumbs and learning effective communication
>>679816355 I'm the kind of vegan that hardcore vegans would probably frown upon.
I despise factory farming and don't support trophy hunting. I don't mind hunting in order to maintain ecological homeostasis (ie, too many deer eating all the vegetation in a national park, and not enough natural predators).
Civilization does not need meat or even dairy for sustenance. Dairy products are even more inhumane in my opinion, just read up on it, it is disgusting what they put in dairy first of all, and secondly what they put cows through in order to get it. 75% of humans are lactose intolerant, and to make up for that, the dairy industry mixes artificial components that negate the effects of that intolerance, but makes it unhealthy for other reasons. They acidify your body, which then takes away calcium in your bones. The milk does a body good slogan is an absolute lie and a scam.
Meat and dairy products are simply cultural delicacies at this point, and they come at the cost of the immense lifelong suffering of countless fellow mammals. That being said, and this is why other vegans would probably hate me, I still love the taste of meat, and if someone offers me food that has meat or dairy in it for free, I have no problem eating it, I'm not gonna fuss about it. The animal is already dead, not eating its meat is not going to bring it back to life. My personal principle about the vegan issue is simply that I will never again purchase meat or dairy products for myself, as I don't want to financially support factory farming or even free range farming in any way. We do not need to cage and kill animals for food.
I mainly live off of bean, pea and lentil based stir fries with either rice or noodles, and I mix it up with a variety of sauces and spices. Delicious, and I generally feel better than when I ate meat and dairy on a regular basis. Legumes have all the protein you need, and though they taste bland on their own, you can always mix them up in oils and spices.
>>679823587 >75% of humans are lactose intolerant > the dairy industry mixes artificial components that negate the effects of that intolerance >They acidify your body, which then takes away calcium in your bones sources?
>as I don't want to financially support factory farming So where do your beans, fruits, and veggies come from? Are you assuming the farmer who grow those foods did not kill any animals to grow that food? Are you assuming that they did not have to destroy the land, ecosystem and environment to grow that food?
>>679823587 >75% of humans are lactose intolerant, and to make up for that, the dairy industry mixes artificial components that negate the effects of that intolerance
Intolerance is due to lack of lactase enzymes being produced. So if they add the enzyme lactase, it will just take lactose and break it down to glucose. Not really seeing how that negatively effects people
>>679824256 Okay, the number is actually 65%, I stand corrected, but my point still stands, just google "how many humans are lactose intolerant". East Asians are 90% lactose intolerant because they do not have a cultural history of pasteurization for dairy purposes the same way Europeans did.
>So where do your beans, fruits, and veggies come from? Are you assuming the farmer who grow those foods did not kill any animals to grow that food? Are you assuming that they did not have to destroy the land, ecosystem and environment to grow that food?
Oh shit, good point. I guess it's either eating meat, or eating nothing at all!
No faggot, if enough people simply stop buying meat, it will drop the incentive for containing and killing farm animals, regardless of whether or not the same farmers are also in the business of growing legumes. In a free market environment, more legume consumption + less meat consumption = more legume production + less meat production. Your argument fails.
>>679825519 im just pointing out that the term "factory farm" does not just apply to livestock farming but agriculture too. Those agriculture factory farms do alot of environmental and ecological damage too. So by not buying meat and buy only fruits and veggies you are still supporting "factory farms"
>>679822225 Not just plant based material, no. But we dont need to eat as much meat that is being produced, thats what the huge problem is. The amount of food/water and space given into animal farming is ridiculous.
>>679823269 Literally you already have cancer. Certain things just speed up the growth process and red meet is a main one. A plant based diet makes your blood 8 times less hospidable. So enjoy being right and dying of cancer eating poor defenceless animals whilst I love to 100 + with my plants and legumes
>>679826228 I agree that most people eat too much meat. But saying eating no meat is stupid and we do use alot of resources for the production of it. But we also use alot of resources and method for farming agriculture that is just as harmful to the environment and ecosystem. But thats the cost of convenience, id raise my own livestock if thats what it meant to have meat but i dont have to. Be thankful for that convenience, it allows you to not have to worry about feeding your self for the day and allows you to do something else with your life other than farming
In the modern age the vast majority of the population that eat meat, dairy and eggs don't posses those skills either. We've commoditized SPECIES of animals, seen only as food. We go to the supermarket to buy meat, cheese dairy and eggs.
The vegan diet is a diet for the modern age, where you can get all of the nutrition you need from plant based food (thanks to a global economy and supermarkets) without the negative effects of sat. fat and dietary cholesterol WITHOUT contributing to an industry that commoditizes sentient beings as FOOD AND NOTHING MORE.
Most people when faced with the choice of killing a cow, chicken or pig or eating a plant based meal, would be disgusted and choose the plant based meal.
Not saying that the vegan diet is a diet for survival outside of a civilized society. It's not. If a collapse were to occur, its kill or be killed, and meat would be the only viable source of nutrition when access to nutrient dense plant based foods became impractical.
Have you ever tried to break someone's skin with your front teeth? I have and it is hard as fuck ok? You are talking pure shit for the sake of argument because you know that the vegans on this thread are right and in the process making yourself look like an ignorant asshole
>>679827195 >Have you ever tried to break someone's skin with your front teeth? I have and it is hard as fuck ok? no its not, youre talking out of your ass. breaking someones skin with your teeth is very easy lrn 2 hardcore bdsm
>>679827283 Because meat makes your body acidic and cancer cells thrive in an acidic environment, Plant based diet keeps your body at a neutral ph/ alkaline state I have a fair idea about cancer. I am not a doctor if that is what you are asking. Are you a doctor anon?
Yes, our ancestors hunter for a living. Meat is rich is fats, sat. fats and cholesterol.
1g fat == 9 calories.
But our ancestors didn't know that. All they knew was that eating meat kept people seemingly healthy.
The difference is, they were always fighting for survival. They needed calorie dense food to stay on the move. It also helped that taking down a wild animal required teamwork and created almost a caste system amongst warriors. It was a two fold practice. You hunted for the honor of scoring a big kill and providing for the village for a longer time, and you knew you nor your people would starve.
Now in the modern age, we continue to eat meat like we need it to survive. but we don't. and we don't care because it tastes good. That's it. Greedy, hedonistic approach to food.
>>679826329 It's evolutionary biology and natural selection at work. Europeans who were lactose intolerant were less likely to survive due to less available food sources in an agricultural environment than the milk drinkers in their families/tribes, and that genetic line was thinned out over the generations.
Also point out where I contradict myself about factory farming, because I don't. I'm not opposed to consuming dairy personally when someone offers me something with dairy in it, but it is not a staple of my diet, nor do I ever purchase it. Given this, I can safely say that I am consistent about not personally financing the dairy and meat industries.
>>679828639 Im recieving my masters in chem with a focus in biochem. I do biochemistry research and have taken several graduate classes on proteins, carbohydrates, enzymes, etc...lets just cancer, cancer treatments, drug targets, mechanisms, etc have came up more than a few times
>>679818606 right. Because we've demonized carbohydrates from non-refined sugar sources (read: any plant food), and carbs are our bodies PREFERRED source of energy. It's the easiest to break down into glucose. We have fucking carbohydrate digestive enzymes IN OUR MOUTHS for fucks sake.
Fats are the second hardest. Protein is the hardest.
>mfw all of these niggers on the paleo diet. Fucking morons.
>>679828676 Cancer is already growing inside you. It just doesn't get to dangerous levels until something triggers it or speeds up the process. And having an acidic body is one of them. Prove it to me otherwise 'nigga'
>>679828716 Actually it more like gene regulation, most children and babies are not lactose intolerant. As you become older, those genes for making lactase get turned off (by mechanisms not well understood). Some say its because you eat less dairy so your body stops producing it (lactase). Other say its our bodies natural way of protecting the food source of our young from our adult selves.
>Also point out where I contradict myself about factory farming, because I don't. I'm not opposed to consuming dairy personally when someone offers me something with dairy in it, but it is not a staple of my diet, nor do I ever purchase it. Given this, I can safely say that I am consistent about not personally financing the dairy and meat industries
but you are, buy eating the dairy food in which some one else bought, you are aiding them to buy more. continuing the cycle, its like I have to buy twice as much cheese if i offer you a slice everytime i eat some.
>>679819463 because of society collapses, everything goes to hell and everyone is fighting for survival, if you have to kill an animal to get nutrients you need to survive because you don't have time to fucking garden, at least you get the consolation that you get one luxury in all of the chaos. Meat tastes good.
>>679827389 Meat consumption certainly is natural, and I sure as hell wouldn't expect veganism to be adopted by apex predators. Carnivores are what they are, and to demand veganism from them would be unethical, obviously. But we, as omnivorous humans in a civilization with industrialized food production, have better ethical options than to keep caged and wholesale slaughter 10 billion animals a year just so that some of us can indulge in juicy steaks and burgers on a weekly, sometimes daily basis. It's a level of decadence that is willfully blind to the reality of factory farms and slaughterhouses, environments by which most people would be visually and auditorily gut-wrenched and horrified.
>>679819256 being a meat eater and rasied on a farm that raised and breed cattle for the town that we were part of, i can say that you have no idea what the hell your talkiing about. We treat all animals with respect because what good is it to have a life where you do not take good care of it? come australia some time and learn how we do shit. And its taken you a while to realse the human race is fucked. Theres nothing you can do besides give in to your instincts and actually live a little. We dont deserve anything, nor do we deserve the right to tell others how to live their lives. And how dare you mock taste of a perfectly grilled pork chop, it's delicious.
>>679817798 You wouldn't need supplements in the first place if you weren't so obsessed about being a special snowflake. >look at me guys in better than you I don't eat meat look guys I'm better than you I'm special meat is murder I'm special
>>679820227 We have the CAPABILITY of being omnivores, sure. Doesn't mean our body can process it and sure as shit doesn't mean we should eat it DAY IN DAY FUCKING OUT like the vast majority of the modern world.
Being capable of omnivorous consumption and actually BEING an omnivore are two completely separate things.
Humans are just flexible.
Also, no. Cooking food is what allowed us to extract more nutrients from what we ate (meat or veggies). THAT is what contributed to brain development and continual evolution over time.
B12 IS NOT IN MEAT BY DEFAULT. goddamn how retarded are you.
>>679830320 >Saturated fat, dietary cholesterol and having 5-7 lbs of meat in your gut slows the bodily functions down kek, sauce. Cooked meat is easily digested...and actually fiber is not. Cellulose is not, inulin, pectin, are not easily digested.
>>679830856 >REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE >I'm mad so I'm going to write a bunch of nonsense Our large intensities are primarily used for the digestion of meat. We have canines. B12 is found in meat naturally but a lot of farms do give supplements to increase the amount.
Because it bores me. I've been vegan before and all it did was limit my options and prove to be a fucking hindrance in my day to day life. And that saving the world is bullshit too so dont believe in that the only reason i used to be vegan was mainly for health (albeit iodine deficiency took a toll on me)
>>679817716 Advanced? Herbivore? Do you not see the fucking irony in your words. Has there ever been a vegan society that has ever made an impact on history? Any vegan civilizations that mattered? Fuck no there isn't so gtfo with your weak ass arguments
>>679816355 I Tried. but not because meat farms hurt planet, but because it is healthy. >was eating meat and diary >a supreme lack of iron occured >started a vegan diet, continued for a month >feeling amazing
But my exams are coming and I don't have enought time for food preparation. plus in my country being vegan is expensive AF. So I'll keep it low until summer starts.
Why I decided that being vegan is healthy - animals get everything that they need from grass. we can get it too. Eating diary is unnatural Vegans live longer. + most vegans lead a healthier lifestyle. They age slower. Their skin is amazing My oppinion ^
>>679831169 You are changing the argument, I never said not to factor in those things I said we live longer, but if you want to argue liked that then vegans are less likely to do those things because they take care of thier bodies and one way they take care of their bodies is by not eating food that is bad for them eg meat/dairy/processed garbage
>>679831780 Well your ignorance is no argument, there are a few top athletes that are vegan and even a few of my family members are vegan and overweight, not eating meat means fuck all about being dying looking
>>679816355 I tried being vegan9stopped because my exams are coming. and vegan food prep takes a lot of time) because it's healthy. not because it helps planet. Plus a lot of vegan believes are utter bs (f.e. cows are not impregnated to give milks. And bees farming is necesary to cope with our plantations)
>Was eating meat + diary other bs >Iron deficiency >started following a vegan diet for a month >feeling amazing
Plus vegans are more likely to follow a healthy life style. They age slower, their skin is amazing. They live longer
>>679832066 Why don't you do your own research you fucking creature, I just used google and clicked the top link, why do I give a fuck about how ignorant you are? Its not my job to teach useless cunts on the Internet
>>679832977 You can't get all the nutrition you need from plants though you moron. Quit acting like animals give a shit if they die. They probably don't even fucking know what death is. All animals live for is to eat, sleep, and fuck.
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