The great thing about being at the bottom is that you can only go up. Zero downside, infinite upside.
To answer your question literally:
1) Find menial, awful, shitty online work. Pay-for-click or SEO stuff, or really anything regardless of how bad it is, in order to get some start up capital. Do this for, say, two weeks and cash out.
2) Gain access to a brokerage account. Bells and whistles really don't matter, so try to to find one without large fees/monthly payments. You need something barebones, and unless you have savings, you probably don't qualify for many of these services.
A way of getting around this is finding somebody that you trust who does qualify for these services, having him open it up, and then funding it with your money. You can incentive him by allowing him to keep your cap loss tax write offs, if things turn bad. Or, in your situation, you could tell mommy you really want to start being responsible and learning to manage your finances. The one thing you will need access to with your broker is options trading, and a data service that provides semi accurate options prices.
3) Once this is all set up and funded, check an earnings calendar li on Yahoo Finance or Morningstar, and go ahead and buy some calls on stocks you think will beat forecasts, and puts on things you think will fall short.
*WARNING* Don't sell either calls or puts, as this could open you up to infinite liability. Also, don't dip into leverage, as this can also lose you a whole bunch. Put all of your internet money into calls and puts.
4) See what happens post earnings.
5) If you lose everything, oh well. Work another two weeks. If you win, you will likely have leveraged your min startup K, so now it would be wise to invest this in something actually smart/stable, like a mutual fund or some shit (unless you want to get into stock picking/valuation).
5) Go back and earn another round of startup K at your shit internet job, and repeat.
>>609066396 >Online poker >Trading(stocks/forex) >learn programming and\or website desing and become freelancer >master one really popular online game and monetize your skills >online entertainment ( twitch , youtube ) >surveys and other shit >various freelancing work Take your pick . also >>609067878 and >>609067928
To be clear: the point of this is to keep tucking money into that safe/conservative investment fund, and gradually building round-by-round leveraged wealth.
You have to be disciplined about not reinvesting your options winnings into more options, however. It's a very fast way to lose money without your knowing it. But it's an ever faster way to make A LOT of money when it works out.
The point of this strategy is its catered to your lifestyle. The only real downsides are opportunity cost, and things you could be doing instead of working a shitty internet job round by round. But in your case, if you're content earning some $ from mommy's basement, this probably doesn't concern you.
Pure economic gain, via utility theory. It's perfect exactly for YOU.
write a book. upload pdf to amazon or lulu and make it sensational. it can be fucking stupid. on amazon, you could make hundreds through ebook sales. on lulu, you get massive profits if people want on demand printing of whatever the fuck it is; like 2/3 of the final printed book price. your cost, nothing. my gimpy comp sci teacher has two books selling for 15 each, he makes 10, and those are our textbooks. poor copy and paste java books.
>>609069392 how is it low IQ if you do not have any resources to get started ? To make money (without the requirement of luck), you NEED money AND connections. It's always been this way, nigger. This is if we're talking about actual fucking money and not just bare minimum to fucking live, like a job. Low IQ my ass, don't fucking tell me Justin Bieber has a high IQ, there are plenty of factors, but most importantly are : money and/or connections.
Literally whatever you can make in one 'round', say, two weeks time. The beauty of trading options is that you can literally start trading with like $30 (although you will likely have to hold a much higher minimum balance somewhere in your account).
A lot of expensive stock prices will be out of reach for you, and the best/safest options trades will be the most expensive ones, especially going into earnings. But if you buy slightly out of the money calls/puts, and get a little bit lucky, you can get filthy rich, round by round.
On options trading? Really, any of those tacky 80-150 page options guides from Barnes and Noble would be just fine. Frankly, you could probably find someplace online. You're just looking to learn very basic calls and put purcahses, which is as easy as it gets.
If you were to hypothetically save enough money in your conservative account, you could even start buying 100 blocks of stock, and then selling covered calls on your own stock. This is literally 100% upside and 0% downside (gradual) income. The only thing you'd lose, again, is opportunity cost.
I repeat, however: the key to options trading is discipline. You have to realize that to be good at it is to be lucky. Although, if you do get more advanced, there are some trades which are definitely sensible/insensible trades.
Shit gets fun with iron butterflies, and all that crazy shit. But right now you just need calls and puts (buying not selling).
If you're looking for more general investment literature, the ONLY good book in the entire field is STILL the Intelligent Investor by Ben Graham. From there, technical guides that run off Graham's logic make sense (the Wiley Finance ones are good).
Also, the more I think of it, I could basically just teach you here in one paragraph.
An option is the [!] option to buy a stock at a certain price. If you buy an option, somebody is selling you the right to buy his stock (not necessarily his, but for now think of it that way) at a certain price.
Stock ABC is at $10. I think in two weeks, it'll be worth $15. Faggot-John, somebody who currently owns ABC thinks in that same two weeks, it will only be worth $13.
It makes sense for Faggot-John to sell me the option to buy his ABC stock for $14, and it makes sense for me to buy it. For me, I would be getting a $15 stock for $14 (minus whatever I paid for the option itself). For Faggot-John, he thinks that I won't want to buy a $13 stock for $14, and so he would have made money off whatever it cost to enter into that option (this is called the contract price).
In options trading, you never actually own the stocks you are trading. You own the contract, teh ability to buy (or sell them) them for a certain price. This is what you are buying/selling, ie, trading, and this is why you don't need lotsa startup K.
I buy this $14 option for $0.50. Two weeks later, lucky for me, ABC's stock price has gone up to $20. I have technically just won the difference between $20 and $14, minus the 50 cents I've already paid to Faggot-John.
I've just turned 50 cents into $5.50. Boom. Leverage.
A call is when you think a stock will go up (right to buy), a put is when you think a stock will go down (right to sell). Options are actually the right to buy 100 shares of a stock, and each option has a "strike price" (the number you think the underlying stock price will be over/under), and an expiration date (otherwise, there would be no incentive for anybody ever to sell).
In the less thrilling scenario, in two weeks, at expiration, ABC's price is still at $14, and hasn't moved at all. Faggot-John keeps his easy $0.50, and I'm out only $0.50.
>>609072594 How does one go about researching a company to know whether they're doing something that will appreciate or depreciate the value of the stock though? It's not like companies are making breakthroughs or having a major bust every week. This has always been the limiting factor for me to get involved. Surely you're not just guessing?
>>609072707 nigga are you really this retarded ? You are getting stuck at the word "education", faggot. Education is one thing, and the knowledge to make money in this day and age is something else. You look at probabilities and figure : Yeah, it's more likely to get rich if you know shit. What you fail to see, is that education doesn't offer you SHIT. Like for instance you are educated in a field, and want to write a book about it. If no one gives a fuck about that field, or you don't advertise the book, no one will buy it. It has nothing to do with the raw education that you have. Don't fucking bullshit us all about education, you fucking dipshit.
AND, hopefully what you're getting from this, is that the only way you can lose money in options trading, is by losing A LOT of these hypothetical $0.50 contract prices, bit by bit. Smart and disciplined options trading allows you to cap your downside for a potentially fast amount of unlimited profit.
Do realize, however, that the downside to buying options is that expiration date I mentioned above. While I can sell my option anytime I want prior to expiration, if time runs out, the thing has gone worthless. The contract price is gone forever, and the option is dead.
This is unlike traditional stock equity, where even if shit hits the fan and I lose 99% of my stock value, I can still hang on to the worthless stock and hope that, in 5 years, in 10 years, in 50 years, the damn thing recovers. In options trading, you are setting a time limit on your right to buy/sell. That's what makes a market in the first place.
Well, that's the ugly sort of speculative side about a lot of options trading. When it comes to earnings calls, you see so much volatility (usually for capped downsides) that you can sort of afford to just guess. Crazy shit happens, when companies post quarterly earnings. A lot of our entire stock market is built into the expectations that company ABC will earn $X billion this quarter. If it turns out they only earned $Y billion, that price is going to correct itself.
I"m not saying options trading is complete guesswork. You can still perform a lot of sensible valuation and do a lot of research into what's happened in the world this quarter, to effect XYZ's business.
And realize that you asked for 0-60 $ advice, which is INHERENTLY going to be speculative. Longer term and well researched options trading can still be sensible, if, say, you JUST KNOW that, say, Netflix shouldn't be trading at 80 times earnings, and that 2 years from now, it will almost certainly correct itself. Good valuation models can go a long way.
If you're really interested in this shit, though, go read Ben Graham. It's really the only foolproof way to make money in stocks. Everything else is speculation/fads.
Quick note: on the flip side, realize that in options trading, you are ALWAYS betting against somebody else. You think ABC will hit strike price X, but faggot-john thinks that it won't. It's important to keep that in mind.
You simply must be trolling. The subject matter you acquire in an education, while immensely fucking important and empirically correlated with success/income, is maybe 50% of what goes into an education.
The social capital, networking, exposure to quality and productive people, social intelligence, foots in the door, sense of fucking respect and prestige, and the goddamn words on your resume are all part of a formal education in today's day and age.
Keep trying to rationalize your not going to school, though. It's fucking hilarious.
Yeah. While you and the other plebes are eating each other for menial jobs, me and my cohort will be watching from our gated communities, because it WAS quite *literally* as simple as "Me smart, Me make money"
>>609074557 it's the pack, and the right opportunities, you bitch. I wanna see how you would make money if you were very very smart, but living in fucking somalia. Just show me. Also, you must stay there in order to prove your point. You know ? Because once you seek wealthy people to interact, you prove my point : Connections, opportunities, and starting wealth. Being smart doesn't do shit, if you don't have everything else going. Also, sometimes luck too.
ALSO you didn't respond to my arguments, you brain-dead wanna-be jack-off that tries to give misinformation to people. Go spread your bullshit to your mother.
No. It's depressingly speculative, especially considering "too big to fail" and all that. The real giant players in today's markets can afford to rape kill and pillage, because if the whole thing breaks they'll be bailed out. That's a serious problem.
But, that aside, do realize that options ≠ stocks/bonds, and that even options do play a logical role.
I own a snow shovel company in Colorado. I usually sell shovels for $10 bucks, but when its a terrible storm, once every few years, I can sell them for $20. The problem is that when there's a blizzard, my own supplier can sell them for $20 also. So instead, every year, I pay $50 bucks to have the right to buy 1000 shovels at $15 dollars. Most years, we don't get a huge storm, thus I lose $50. But on the year we do get that blizzard, I"m in a damn good place.
Options started in agricultural situations, where crop failures or bad storms could really fuck farming life up. It was a form of insurance.
Realize also, that many people use options strictly to secure their own equity profits. If I have $200,000 in stock ABC, and I buy 100 put options at a disaster level price for $20 (essentially betting against myself), then I've spent only 20 bucks to protect $200k!
If shit hits the fan, and the market collapses, my puts will make boatloads, and while the world is on fire I'll walk away unscathed, because I put $20 upfront to protect myself. (some of the biggest winners in 2008 were those with deep out of the money puts)
Risk is all about the money you have, and your willingness to lose it. If you REALLY want 0 risk investing, then either sell covered calls for very slow and gradual income, or use Graham/Dodd's value investing. Price≠value, and eventually, time always will render the two equal.
What are you exactly asking? About earnings forecasts? General stock forecasts? What?
In the options strategy above, you would want to look at the earnings calendars to get some idea of when certain companies are posting earnings. Dates/Times. Then you would be looking at current EPS forecasts, which is what people expect them to post that day, and you place your bets around whther you think they'll beat/fall short.
That's speculative, unless you do loads of work on industry trends, input prices, valuation, etc. Frankly, even in that case, one quarter is probablyso short that it is ALWAYS speculative. But, thankfully, its speculation with massive upside (technically unlimited), and strictly capped downside (all you lose is a contract price).
Gimme gimme chicken tendies, Be they crispy or from Wendys. Spend my hard-earned good-boy points, on Kid's Meal ball pit burger joints. Mummy lifts me to the car, To find me tendies near and far. Enjoy my tasty tendie treats, in comfy big boy booster seats. McDonald's, Hardee's, Popeye's, Cane's, But of my tendies none remains.
She tries to make me take a nappy, But sleeping doesn't make me happy. Tendies are the only food, That puts me in the napping mood. I'll scream and shout and make a fuss, I'll scratch, I'll bite, I'll even cuss! Tendies are my heart's desire, Fueled by raging, hungry fire. Mummy sobs and wails and cries, But tears aren't tendies, nugs or fries.
My good-boy points were fairly earned, To buy the tendies that I've yearned. But there's no tendies on my plate! Did mummy think that I'd just ate? "TENDIES TENDIES GET THEM NOW, YOU FAT, UNGRATEFUL, SLUGGISH SOW!" I screech while hurling into her eyes, My foul-smell bowel-dwelling diaper surprise. For she who is un-pooped on is she who remembers: Never forget my chicken tenders.
>>609075587 Bet that on a easy 2/1 football accumulator, that's £3. Rinse repeat till you have minimum 30 then start upping the stakes. Just bet on so called certain winners. Madrid Barcelona bayern juventus all at home vs lower ranked teams...
And if your criticism was my not replying to your say little book hypo, then let me entertain you.
Primarily, since I am of the educated class, I can think of far more profitable business ventures than deciding to write some fucking book in order to make money. This, indeed, would be a poor use of my education/time, and if you yourself were properly educated, you would be able to infer that educated people don't write books because of the lucrative profit margins.
But let's just say that for some dumb reason, I do decide to write a book for the money. I'm educated in a field, and I write a book, and expecting to make money, nobody is buying my book. But then I say "wait, Jim from my MBA is a marketing specialist at Deloitte, maybe I could shoot him a message and grab a beer with him." We go get beers, Jim tells me all about how I should be marketing my book, and he tells me he also knows a book distributor, and a textbook editor who is looking for an expert on exactly what I am an expert in. My book starts making money, I start applying my expertise towards a textbook, I get rich, and then I invest in this killer app that Jim's son happens to be working on (star kid at Stanford, by the way) and we make billions (more than even Jim's kid makes, hah!)
Do you think these sorts of conversations just magically appear in your dive bar across from the assembly line? At Pattie's diner across the old coal mine?
>>609076294 >Studying 2nd year - engineering here Suppose everyone gets an education. Are they all going to become successful and wealthy in the long run ? The system in which we live, NEEDS the majority to be poor so that money can have value. You know NOTHING, good sir, and are certainly not what someone would call "educated" if you go around saying that just because one is well educated, he/she can achieve great wealth.
>>609066396 Start a kickstarter, claim an identity, tell everyone on there that you or a relative (young kid) have cancer and ask for money to help the poor kid realise his dream. Write a touching story as well and have the dream be really fucking expensive.
It's a temporary solution, but you could start several kickstarters.
>>609077579 I agree, not everyone knows "Jim", the marketing specialist. This is just an example, but does extend to great a great truth. What opportunities does the average joe have, even if he IS educated. It's about knowing the right people.
Glad to help/stir interest. Finance is certainly a douchey industry, but I'll be damned if it's not an exciting one. Wizards of the modern world.
If anybody is seriously thinking of going and trying a hand in this, I cannot emphasize enough to go read The Intelligent Investor by Bejamin Graham. The text itself is technologically outdated (by like 60 years, lol) but the logic and arguments he makes will teach you basically everything you need to know about investing in the stock market. After that, it's all technique.
That said, if you do want to try your hand in options, go read a better guide than my fucking 4chan post. You should learn more about the nuances before you put real money in, although I think it's fair to say that I'm not hiding anything here or scamming you people. The beauty of options is leverage.
Finally, don't forget the importance of discipline. Options trading itself can be addicting as fuck. Know your limits. If you lose sight of them, even a $20-100 contract price lost can start to add up when you lose enough of them, and "just know" that the next one will turn your losing streak around.
Like I said originally. Money goes into speculative options. Winnings come out and go into a safe/conservative fund. Then you work, and new money goes into options, and the same process goes on and on. When money starts flowing from your safety account back into options, it might be time to stop.
>>609078131 I call bullshit on everybody saying education = opportunity. The desire to learn and become better at something is what drove the most successful people in history. Having a degree is nice and all, but if you can't back up the formal education with a reasonable amount of experience through your own efforts it doesnt mean shit.
I really don't know. I know that in the US, something cheap and easy like International Brokers is enough. Bare bones.
Really, if you're going to be placing a lot of transactions (and you probably will be will options trading), that's probably the most important thing to look out for. Make sure you're not getting a massive commission hit per buy/sell.
Other than that, I don't know how good/bad the information services are for most of these companies. I work at a firm that has its own services, so I've never needed these. Between the millions of online sites, I can't help but feel it might sort of not worth paying for. (You do want live or semi-live prices though, in options trading. Esp. if trading during earnings calls).
Also, sites like SeekingAlpha are good and worth reading, but remember that the quality is only as good as the posters. I've seen some really interesting ideas there time to time (and made a good chunk of coin of a few) but for every sucess sttory ther's probly also 10 failures. I've seen some wonky theories on there.
>>609078744 >implying it's just in the american system. it's all over the fucking world. You can't get quality experience if you don't actually work at what you love to do, but good fucking luck FINDING someone that will hire you so you can get experience. This is why education fails, because what SHOULD have been done, is in school, instead of learning the most useless shit ever like geography, history, etc. you should be focusing on what the fuck you want to do, like get very good in just one field, throughout school. Not learn a little insignificant bit of EVERYTHING. In school, you are supported by your parents, so you have time to do shit. But the fucking assholes that run the show, made this shit FOR A REASON. To fucking keep the plebs down. You can't have a society where everyone wants to progress, it cannot work like this.
>>609078744 No paradox shit weasel, you start out at entry level and gain experience on the job, combined with your degree you advance in pay an position... Nobody starts at the top. Not just in America, in life in General...
>>609079276 also, now when someone says "education", you are thinking how bullshit it is. What "education" SHOULD mean, is the knowledge, passion and skill that you should develop during your young years. Not after fucking useless highschool.
Sounds simple because it is just sell all your old shit that you don't use/need anymore, videogames, old keyboards and shit like that, put it on eBay and make some money it's not hard. Once you've got some capitol branch out a bit, buy things like laptops and tvs, clean them up a bit and sell them for a profit, make them look nice in the photo preview on eBay or whatever and sell them for a bit more than they're worth if you can idk make up some bullshit about how it's in immaculate condition apart from 2 tiny scratches and has never given you any issues?
I'm not saying everyone should or structurally can get an education. In fact, as an engineer, surely you know that today's grad degree is yesterday's BA. The correlation between education and success is absolutely real and empirically demonstrated. Frankly, even without this correlation, there's a great deal of self respect involved in knowing a whole lot about something.
>>609077276 I'm doing just fine myself, man. I also have the comfort in knowing that that I have both immense job security and the future pride of being able to instill worthy values in my kids, instead of your little "YOU DUNNH NEED DAT, SOHWN" narrative.
Also, this "paradox" is literally why school matters so much. A good enough sticker from XYZ institution will stand in for that buy-in experience. It did for me at least, and once you enter the cycle, shit's nice and cushey.
There are plenty of problems with this opinion. Aside from fast food joints and cashier positions, which themselves are already flooded with high school applicants, finding an entry level position anywhere without prior experience is like trying to find a fucking unicorn.
Additionally, this is another example of "you can only become successful if you're already successful." Getting a post-high school education costs a lot of money if you're going for any sort of meaningful degree. a four-year school is, on average, $100k - $125 by the time you're done. Even getting the maximum amount of financial aid in student loans, there's still about $10k/year you need to find yourself. If you come from a poor family, that's not something viable.
On top of that, in the current world, a college degree is the equivalent on a job application to what a high school diploma was 20 years ago. It doesn't put you above anyone else. They want Grad school degrees: Masters and Doctorates, which are tens of thousands of more dollars and another several years of schooling to go through before you have one.
tl;dr: Unless you already have money, or connections, finding a job when you don't have experience is kind of impossible.
>>609079858 But surely you know that everyone wants to get ahead, right ? What advice you are offering is faulty on it's own, in the context of this society. However combined with the reality of what is going on, the old saying "if it were that simple..." offers a simpler explanation. Also, I read your other post about statistics. I have to agree with that aggressive anon. Statistics are good at offering security however they do not represent the reality if someone is actually pulling the strings.
Damn man. Thank you for all of your help and information on trading options. I didn't know jack shit about trading options before reading through all of your post. You explained it perfectly. I will definitely be checking out that book! Thanks again anon. You have a good one ...!
I can't go to school because I have no money. I have no money because I don't have a [good] job. I don't have a [good] job because I didn't go to school or don't have experience.
It's easy to be inside the bubble looking out at the people trying to get in, but you have to consider the position people on the outside are in.
Consider someone below the poverty line. Single mother, two kids, working multiple jobs. Barely makes enough to afford rent, utilities, food, and other necessities. Even if the c hildren work hard in school, do all their homework, get decent grades (let's say they are A, B students), college, outside of community college, is still a far-off dream. Competition for scholarships is RIDICULOUSLY fierce, and if they're not both top two or three in the class, they're not getting one anyway. They might get a job at waiting tables or cashiering, but they're in high school, they only get hired part time. They aren't making enough money to put away, and they probably have to use it to help out with household needs anyway.
They can be the most determined people in the world but determination can't get you anywhere in the modern world if you don't have the resources already available to you to take advantage of.
>>609079858 I agree that there is a definite relation between education and success, but that is limited to a few studies such as medical and engineering to name the most popular. Those fields need the formal education to get their feet wet and let them loose on real projects for experie ce. Other studies can be done individually and should be studied in and outside of a college environment. I know someone who missed out on a fantastic entry level position as a software engineer because they didnt put any effort in themselves and only had their school knowledge.
And poor people don't have connections, that's why they're poor. That's what's wrong with the world. If you don't already have the resources, you aren't going to get them, or go anywhere, unless you're stupidly fucking lucky.
a) Yes, everyone wants to get ahead. And there are people who never go to school who will become billionaires, and people from HBS who will end up in tatters. But, by and large, they to get ahead (even in our contemporary job market / culture) is to pursue an education.
No, not just any education. Women's studies won't do the trick. In my own undergrad, one of my majors was in English, so I know this all too well. Thank god I had another degree alongside it.
Still, if you're sensible enough to think of macro generation trends and where our society is going, an education will and does correlate to opportunity. Conceptually, but also empirically.
If anybody wants a realistic chance of making it, they will go to college. Today, if people want a better chance of making it, they will go to grad school. Not everybody has the drive for the that, not everybody has the intelligence for that, or the ability to defer upfront pleasure like that. Some people want to go make money right now, and, sadly, a lot of really smart driven people will be forced to go make money right now, and give up a potentially far more lucrative career in the process.
So I guess, what I'm getting at, is I really don't know what you're saying. So long as you're not a social retard, it REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE, by large. Assuming, of course, that you have the resources at your disposal. (I concede that for many people, the equation bends under teh burdens of usury).
Finally on the statistics point, really? You're going to sit here and tell me, as an engineer, that the few high school dropout outliers who make it in society, credibly outweigh the millions of educated individuals, who have a billion more opportunies than the non-outlier drop outs?
I'm willing to bet that the probability here plays out as expected.
>>609081316 If you are in America, you need to open your eyes. Single mother gets school paid for. All of the single mother's children will get 100% funding as well. If they are as determined as your example, they would look for help and find probably a lot more than they would habe imagined exists. It isnt the opportunity that brings people down, especially in our time. There is more opportunity and help than you think for anybody who wants to further their education, they just know they dont need to put in the effort to stay floating and live with their assisted income. Tl;dr your example is shit and there is opportunity for everybody(in murica).
You too. And remember, the Graham is investment overall. You also want an options guide, even one of those cheezy ones (OPTIONS MADE EASY, THE IDIOTS GUIDE, OPTIONS FOR DUMMIES, whatever. You're just learning the mechanics).
>>609081360 If you mean an options book, see above. It doesn't really matter. For a more up to date book on investing in general, my advice would be to read the Graham, and then buy individual Wiley Finance books around this philosophy.
The Wiley Finance books are basically very practice/industry driven texts that will teach you theories, etc. So when you learn about Graham/Dodd Value investing, you might check out a Wiley on value investing, and then learn you need to learn more about valuation models, adn then learn you need to learn more about quants, so on and so forth. The Graham is just a good starting point to explore whatever.
If you need basic lingo, then again, even a stock markets for dummies might be worth getting up to speed. YOu need to speak t he language before you can write the poetry, if you will.
>>609081874 The problem with grad school is that it isnt always the right choice. people have gone out and gotten 2-4 years of experience that are more valuable to a company than a grad student with minimal on-the-job experience. The company would probably pay them the same, but get more effective use from the experience than an entry level grad.
Take it with a grain of salt, because im all about education, but it isnt the best choice for everybody.
Because there are only a finite number of full ride scholarships and a virtually infinite number of people qualified or over-qualified applying for them.
When I graduated high school I applied to, no exaggeration, hundreds of scholarships. I spent my entire senior year and that summer applying for scholarships and financial aid. I was ranked 23rd in my class and to this day have some pretty dank essay writing skills, but none of that matters when you're ranked outside of the top five or so; you're facing off against valedictorians and salutatorians from posh private schools and rich public schools.
I managed to go to university for two years, but after that all of my funds dried up and the loan debt I had already incurred was suffocating, so I had to stop. I was doing great academically, I was double majoring in Japanese and Business with the plan of going to work for an automaker like Honda or Toyota (or another big Japanese company in America), but I couldn't afford to keep going financially.
>>609082020 The example came from my own experience, and that's just not true.
I must concede that I don't know if my mother could have gotten school paid for free-ride, but even if she could it wasn't something she could afford to do in terms of time. She was working two jobs on top of being a mother. She couldn't go to school even if she wanted to.
The children are most definitely not paid for 100%. As mentioned above, I applied for hundreds of scholarships when I was college searching. I got five of them. People misunderstand what scholarship means. Scholarships don't guarantee thousands of dollars toward your tuition and fees, in fact many of them are only a couple hundred dollars. My five scholarships netted me about $4,000. I maxed out my FAFSA grants and loans at about $12,000/yr which was roughly half of the tuition and fees for the school I was going to. I was getting $16,000 per year to go to school, but still needed $5,000 more yearly
>>609066396 I always though you could ebay large lots of like warhammer and junk and just split the lots up at home to maximise value. This same principle with aliexpress and junk. Anyone ever made money at this?
>>609081874 Yes, sir. Because statistics don't include competition, level of desire, social factors, intelligence factors, and sooo many other ones. If you ignore all that, sure. However I think you are missing the point of what the discussion was originally about. It was about making it big. Not having to worry about a job. An education is for those who are willing to work, while the conversation you were having 10-15 mins ago was I think about making "real money". And on that subject, I have to say that an education doesn't really do it, you need lots of luck, and / or resources (human AND other). I sometimes find it so amusing and sad at the same time, how people look at CEO's with billions of dollars and argue how hard they worked for that or how smart they are. They couldn't work harder than let's say an actual miner even if they wanted to, and they couldn't be so smart. TO give an example, take for instance someone like Bill Gates, and ask him something like : the technology of making origami. The point in this is showing that it's not education as a whole, (or at least not what most people understand when they hear the term), but rather specialization, and commitment. However I am seeing these kinds of people on a regular basis, and they are very poor. So commitment for raising a farm is not the same as commitment for making it big. What it boils down to, I think is something that statistics overlook, and that is the human spirit. Rich people always had the right tools and luck, if you examine them more carefully. For instance being born in a rich family will greatly impact the chance of you making it big or not.
>>609083863 what ? It was a figure of speech, I was trying to refer to desire, in general. The desire to be an exceptional programmer will make you an amazing programmer, while the desire to be freaking rich may make you freaking rich. The desire to be an amazing programmer will not make you freaking rich, no matter how good you are, is my point. It will just offer you a very stable and well paying job. That's what I was referring when I said "human spirit". The desire to achieve some specific thing, I thought it was evident.
Studentfag from wealthy family here. Trading stock, futures and options (15k private equity, I use leverage to get to smt like 100-200k) and after reading like half of this thread I can say tha almost everything said here is bullshit. Like "lol bro just gamble and u need some luck"... Do you even statistics faggot? Regarding the "where can I get news and forecast" - zacks investment research, also your broker should have a premium subscription for Thomson and Reuters which you can use and If he does not he is shit. It's far more complicated than you think and without any knowledge just starting up the chance that you lose everything is enormously high. To the basement dwellers out here: educate yourself about economics and finance and by that I don't mean like reading a fucking book for day traders or bullshit like this but understanding the concepts of micro and macro economics, finance markets while trading a demo account (ig markets is pretty good cfd broker - cfd is not accessible in the us)
>>609085049 Yeah, there's not enough of these kind of comments. No $100 bills laying in the street. If you could go from $0 to stock market millionaire, everyone would be doing it. The guy who's talking about options knows his shit, but at least for stocks, you need a pile to start with to have any chance.
>>609085135 Fag from the post above you Don't use spread betting sites but rather CFD (contract for difference) as they are not limited to things such as expiry dates for options, minimum quantity and shit. They represent the real market more effectively than spread betting
The strategy of my own personal portfolio couldn't be more different than the OPs situation, or the options strategy I've been discussing. If I'vv been following a certain company this quarter, I might place some bets around their earnings calls. But they're bets, and I'm usually only tossing out $500-1k in contracts, if I feel I haven't done enough due dilligence. It's only slightly more reasoned roulette, frankly. I'd have to audit my shit to give you a numerically accurate earnings estimate. I have no idea. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. The thinking with the strategy above is that it's a low risk chance to make a lot of money with very little, pretty aggressively. IT also inherently caps your downside at what you're willing to blow on lost contracts, were you to lose constantly. In addition to that shitty job strategy, you could instead put 10% of every paycheck into options. You're basically buying in gradual play money, and banking the winnings each round into a conservative investment account. It would be impossible for me to estimate how much you might make off this. You could earn a fuck ton. THe real beauty is I know exactly how much you would lose in the worst case scenario.
For you, buy the Intelligent Investor. If you find yourself confused, go get Stock Market for Dummies and give it a quick read. Really, any overall guide to how the stock market works. There are probably online materials just as good as the Dummies book. If you're talking about entry level options trading, go buy any guide to options.
Anybody can invest. But you probably need an adult to open an account, and you also need some access to starting income.
Also, just so everybody knows, part of your winnings WILL go to capital gains taxes, so do plan ahead for that!
>>609085049 Cont. Also while you're right that by trading options you either suffer a small loss or hit it big, their premium (=price you pay for buying the option) is calculated on facts like market volatility, duration of the option and other factors like political instability if you go for oil options for example. If you know your shit you can assume that the premium is either too high (go short/naked selling) or too low (go long) but that's almost impossible without any education on the matter or experience. That means of course that if you gamble your expected winnings will be the same amount it was before because sometimes you will win and sometimes you will lose. BUT you have to pay fees to the broker and/or to the market maker which will completely fuck you over because they are not that small... Think of it like this: if you gamble you flip a coin whether you win or lose 10$, but each flips costs a fee of 0.5$. If you gamble it's mathematically impossible to make money.
The idea is to use options to aggressively lever small input towards a larger (safer) equity strategy. Nobody is saying you should be placing bets on earnings calls with big money. Its about doing it with a tiny bit of money you won't miss, in order to be smart with potentially more money.
>>609086174 Well if you don't know the right info about economics, advertisement, etc, you will just have a job as a programmer. You didn't invest time into studying these things because the focus was programming, not money. It's really this simple. As for the desire for some specific thing, it's what I just said. People will do this, they want security, and peace of mind. And no one is interested in devoting entire lives on earning that good life because what's the point of making it big when you are old and can't enjoy shit ? Like if you were to invest in stocks, and other such things.
>>609086703 >placing bets on earnings calls with big money This is pretty routine for me, as I already have the large equity stake. I would doubt one can go from nothing to here easily, though. Better to save up/borrow/steal the initial capital than to try and trade your way to it.
I don't disagree with you, but I don't think these entry level kids with no starting K need to worry themselves with Black-fucking-Scholes.
I made a fuck ton when I was younger buying slightly out of the money calls on high-short interest stocks going into earnings. It takes semi active management during these moments, but 10 semi-cheap options here needed 1-2 wins to break even AND buy me the potential to lucrative returns. Yes, tehre were times times I ate shit, and times that I made money off selling at peak volatility before the actual earnings call, but through a disiplined money-in strategy I always limited my losses and made solid gains in the entire period. I'm not denying there was luck invloved, but the money it gave me for more conservative investment was a large part of why I live the way that I do today.
Again, realize OP wanted to make $ from mommy's basement. What the fuck did he have to lose, in lost contracts?
>>609066396 There is no way with that motivation of yours. If you still live at home and have no job or education, then that's a clear sign you already lack both discipline and motivation in the first place. A truly disciplined person would have gotten an education and a job to have a safe future, and THEN thought of how to get more rich. Even if It's just a shit job.
If everybody could get rich they would. THere are people who spend 10+ hours only selling shit and investing etc on the internet, but even they make only around average salaries.
And I'm guessing you don't actually wanna work, but get rich. Wont work pal.
>>609088918 Sorry, I should have said "flags one". Didn't mean you personally. I was flagged/classified years ago, but don't really care as I have SEC's minimum, and am on file with the IRS as a trader anyway. I will be moving in to options soon, seeing if some of the same rules apply.
Like, on margin? No. It terrified me, and I knew what I was doing was hugely speculative. It's the same reason I stayed away from naked puts and what not. The potentially endless liability terrified me.
That said, I was not quite working at the burger joint, either. I had a pretty good job and source of income, so it wasn't like my portfolio was ever intending to be some rags to richces miracle via blitzkrieg options trading.
>>609089549 Ok because I am still trying to figure out what the best portfolio leverage is.... As said, I use 15k of my own with hourly supervision (using phone apps while in university) and I mainly worked with 100-200k which at the upper level was terrifying. I didn't hedge at all so that taken into consideration what level would you suggest is "reasonable"?
Now, yes. Because I can afford to pay the interest, if shit were to tank. But back then when I was in balls-to-wall options land, I had no illusions about what I was doing. In spite of the casino advocacy, I"m a pretty conservative trader in general. Again, utility theory, right? There was a time in my life where the downside seemed pretty comically insiginficant in the long run, so I went a bit mad with youth.
>>609090090 I'm 5 years in. Must be doing something right, because I'm still here. As for the day to day, I would imagine it's somewhat similar to yours, at least as far as information gathering & analysis.
Honestly, I know it's not the sexy answer, nor probably the super-market-efficiency-holy-capitalism answer, but I've always handled portfolio leverage similar to that of any business.
I go and look at past returns and how things are going, I look at systemic risk going forward and and any macro economic shit that I might be worried about, I place a huge premium on my lifestyle and whether the extra care is worth my time right now, and then I consider "how much would I loan me" the same way a bank would look at any brick and mortor business.
I know that's not the answer you are probably looking for, but I'm not sure I have a better one. Other than that you should be using hedges. I learned my lesson in 08.
>>609092669 No set budget atm. I'm only on £500 disposable income a month, but by the time christmas comes around I'll have my loan paid off and be closer to £1k p/m, with a pending bonus too.
I've noticed Nationwide have some C class legal and equity trackers, and a global equity index fund, both starting from £20, but in all honesty, I'm not sure what my budget should be being new to this (or even if I'm looking in the right place for that matter)
>>609093048 Trading US is easy and can be very cost effective depending on Exchange rate. I keep a US bank and use BH with 0% trading fees but if i were to use a different UK bank it would not be a problem. That reminds me. Biggest tip for trading... make friends and buy people drinks... 0% trading fees both in England for hargreaves lansdown and in the US with BH.
>>609093045 Its not how much you make its whats available too you for such money and how much risk is baring for the ones you buy. I would start with buying 12k maximum in shares that cost no more than 350. Hope this helps :)
>>609094017 berkshire hathaway... As i say this i think you have to have a licence with them. However normally you pay a 1% fee plus 300 dollars admin charge... I socialised with the right people and they don't take the fee. It costs money to socialise but after a while people will buy you things back and consider you a friend and give you tips.
>>609094112 Oh for sure, I'm not pretending I'll be doing it in the near future. I'm building up with a savers ISA and I'll hopefully be in a position to invest this time next year. H&L are on my list too of where to start, but I'm unsure if they'd be a good beginner option
>>609093597 If you crunch the numbers, you'll find out pretty quick that, unless you can buy/sell sizable positions (which you'll need 30X what you've got to buy), your commissions and fee costs will eat your principal alive. Unless things are somehow radically different in the UK. The US is full of guys with $10-$20,000 accounts slowly losing their capital trading.
>>609095205 My last trade with them was for 400 GSK shares. which at the time was worth about £585,000. Its all about being nice. People don't like to take money directly from friends. I'm not saying go out and buy them a beer. Im saying buy them nice champagne and tables.
It was largely mental, largely technical. I mean, it's hard to look back at now, because everybody was a bit reckless. This kind of thing just didn't happen, and it was easy to get lazy. I had some open hedges that hadn't been updated to correspond to my most updated equity positions, and I had poorly insured reentry after some positions had gotten wiped in panic #1. Then the real hell came and hit me good.
I also learned to always use stop limits, and not the market stop. The devil you know, etc. Not worth the dime-sized greed when liquidity is flushed down the drain.
>>609094736 Yeah, as I said here >>609094700 I'm just saving now but trying to get the basics down before next year when I should have some decent savings. I wasn't aware that even the people were losing their capital on 10-20k though. Working in pharma I'm hoping I can get the right contacts and get introduced to the right people through social events - I've already met the CEOs and I'm throwing a charity do so there's plenty of potential I guess. Just need to not fuck up and bide my time I guess...
Seriously though, the 10-20k guys losing money surprised me and I'm almost considering long term savings as an alternative
>>609095600 I knew they were shooting up, but nicely played
>>609095690 That was 2010. I've had some up years, some down. But the ups have been way better than the downs. I just tend to follow as many broad based sources as possible. The closer you get to sites that "specialize" in stocks, or "recommend" them, the more likely there's ulterior motives at work.
>>609096008 >10-20k guys losing money Well, not only are they unable to take the punishing hits that go along with the learning curve, they're under the SEC minimum limit, which means they can be frozen unless they're really careful.
>>609098565 You're missing the point. He cited the value of the trade (585,000 pounds) as a reason buying tables was a smart idea. But my brokerage doesn't operate on percentage. That's why his trade would have cost me peanuts, not worth buttering people up over.
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