>>595408650 You don't really need too much guidance once you understand the basics of a language. I use Java because I'm still green, but it wasn't too complicated to understand, and there's always some online resource to use.
I'm in programming II and my major is Computer Science.
Next step is to prove that you know what you are talking about to HR people. I recommend certification, open source projects on git hub, and participation in the community, like mailing list, irc channels, stack overflow, and so on...
>>595410510 I'm like 30% through HTML/CSS, I love CodeAcademy.
I plan on taking some Programming and a computer science course this fall. Anything I should know before going in? Like certain math skills, etc? >>595410744 I was, but I had to leave to take care of my father who had brain cancer.
I'm going to go back to school this fall to start everything off.
I plan on looking around for those interships, etc. Thank you anon! >>595410821 could you go into a little more detail? Still learning everything on my own.
those of you saying you don't need a degree... this is true, and is true for most things. if you want to have the same education as a graduate you better fucking bust your ass full time understanding computer science concepts and actually BUILDING things to show people. I'm not talking about glueing shit code together. School will give provide you with networking and force you to expand your thinking into areas you wouldn't normally go in. Some may or may not be useful immediately (english, calculus, physics, chemisty, statistics) depending on the industry you work in. You could always learn this on your own but you need to FUCKING BUST YOUR ASS. I can spot a shit coder from a mile away.
source: graduated 3 years ago from software engineering team lead at a company valued at +10 billion making $140k per year (top 95 percentile in my area)
>>595411440 >Like certain math skills, etc? Really depends on the Professor. My last professor was very lax on math, she rarely made us use formulas in homework.
My current Professor doesn't fuck around. He's a math/computer science teacher. Holy fucking shit this guy expects you to know every formula off of the top of your head. I'll probably just go full retard and memorize formulas and how to execute them.
Very rarely will you have to do anything too math intensive. Computer Programming classes are oddly logical.
>>595411594 Wait....can we go into a little more detail on these? This sounds interesting >>595411833 See what you described >software engineering team lead at a company valued at +10 billion making $140k per year (top 95 percentile in my area)
THAT is what I want....I want to be apart of a team that busts ass and tosses out a product that matters. I want that feeling so fucking bad, but standing where I am, alone, and looking up isn't exactly the most encouraging thing, ya know?
For example. I was working with a library in python called scrapy in my last internship. The people that develop that library created a chat room in Irc for people to exchange ideas there. Someone looked up my ip address there and found out that I was in the area and asked me to go to their company to talk about a job opportunity.
About open source software, you could fix some bugs and talk about that during the interview. Since open source projects have all the changes documented they will be able to see your work.
>>595412438 >>>595411833 >See what you described >>software engineering >team lead at a company valued at +10 billion >making $140k per year (top 95 percentile in my area) >THAT is what I want....I want to be apart of a team that busts ass and tosses out a product that matters. >I want that feeling so fucking bad, but standing where I am, alone, and looking up isn't exactly the most encouraging thing, ya know?
i know, i was there 8 years ago starting my first year of school. heres my university career summed up:
first year: i knew shit about programming "whats an array?!? im failing mechanical eng class, this is too hard". told myself that i would finish school no matter what second year: found a friend to help me out (really nice and smart guy). i made sure i worked just as hard if not harder than him on project we were working on together. still struggling with school
third year: pick up ruby on rails, start a startup with my friend. incubate at a popular startup. everything i learn is on my own. reading the fuck out of ruby/rails and still gonig to school
fourth year: still working on startup and its not going so well, it fails. learned a shit ton about business and what not todo
fifth year: finish off school hating it, want to build things
1st job, dev, 3 months, sucks ass. i sell myself as a professional in interviews
2nd job is better, intermediate dev, 1.5 years, aways learning and contributing my design knowledge. when i tell them im leaving for my 3rd company, they want to give me a 30k raise to stay
3rd company, senior dev to team lead in 11 months. i love it here. looking to be in management role soon
also fuck certificates. they make you look like a idiot. if i interviewed someone and they had a certificate and they didn't need it for the role, id be like "really"?
If you can code you're gold...degree is helpful but means jack shit if you're looking for someone to hold your hand on the job. i have a degree, one of my coworkers never finished highschool...but he's an awesome coder.
temp agencies keep sending us lame ass dicks who have the degree but act like babies, they don't last in our field.
be the man who can be dropped into a burning house and code his way out...be the one who gets the job done.
so many companies looking for talent here, hard to find. i am cozy in my job but get tons of offers for other companies.
rule of thumb, if you have the talent to code, then you can earn.
As far as I know USA goes really easy on the math part. You just have to do your homework as far as I know.
Other countries, I think you need to take that very serious. My advise would be never use the book recommended by the professor, specially if it is called concrete mathematics. Grab a easier one and be happy.
>>595408650 The way you do this is, odd as it seems, Anon, by doing it and the problems are basically all there for you to solve. But whay is even more odd is that you would actually ask such a question. Do IT - one problem at-a-time.
>>595414530 >>595414073 In the U.S you usually need the book for economic reasons, as well as for practical use.
All of the courses at my college use Pearson Books, and the online service MyMathLab, used to use WebAssign but moved towards this.
You need the assigned book to do well with the homework, as well as get the online code, and also be familiar with the problems in the book. Most of the testing material will come from the homework and book.
The textbooks are actually pretty fucking good. I use them to supplement what the Professor glosses over.
Also, I don't know how or why, but once you get to Calculus shit gets easier as opposed to harder. At least that's how I feel at the moment.
That sounds exactly like I thought it would. I have to fail along the way to learn, but knowing it's apart of the process is nice.
I think once I'm out of the mud and can actually understand everything I'm doing then it feels like I would be able to then start completely busting my ass. >be the man who can be dropped into a burning house and code his way out...be the one who gets the job done.
just to give you an idea of what i mean by "bust your ass". i've spend more time programming and learning then i have on entertainment in the last 8 years. sometimes you will feel like trying to learn something new like like moving a brick wall. honestly, just keep pushing forward. take different approaches. come back to it after a couple days rest. eventually it becomes second nature and you are the expert. you will stare at code for 6 hours trying to debug when you first start out. those 6 hours end up reinforcing what not todo and that has made you a better programmer.
There isn't the 'one' book I can work through beside the lectures since the professor assigned a bunch of books. He said to these that we should pick the one which "suit us the best". That's okay, but the problem is following: there are some things in the lectures which aren't covered in the books and must be found elsewhere. Especially it lacks the problem sets and exercises you'd normally do to get it really down. Just solving the homework alone didn't do for me.
>Personally enjoy school. I really like history and politics, but I don't want to be homeless so I'm majoring in computer science.
I did too. School was awesome, but if you're STEM don't think that classes will ever prepare you for what you'll encounter in the professional world.
Someone else brought up a great point though, there are some great books about being a better engineer. Read 'Clean Code' or really anything else by Uncle Bob. If you could combine (Uncle Bob) Martin, Fowler, and Feathers into a single tome it would be a programming bible.
>>595416591 >Just solving the homework alone didn't do for me. It did for me personally. There's enough variation to cover all bases. I did A LOT of homework last semester. Average problems per week was about 80.
Some weeks were easy, but even then it was time consuming. Its just fucking exhausting at times. Didn't help that I was taking 7 classes last semester, with one of them being an almost 20 hour a week course in it by itself.
Fuck me. Last semester disgusted me.
I'd definitely recommend buying the Pearson issued textbooks. Shits legit.
few things to keep in mind non-programming related. when you start working, if you want an easier time moving past the 80k - 100k mark you'll need to be seen as a valuable person among your peers (not just other programmers). thing you do need to be outward facing and beneficial to the company. be an expert at something is good, being able to communicate your expertise is essential
i've chosen to be what people in the industry call a "unicorn". im a professional developer, i love business and its always on my mind when thinking about what im building. i talk to the business teams a lot. and im a designer (not a great one yet but my goal in 10 years is be an amazing designer). the design teams always run stuff past me before they finalize too. every department asks for my opinion but im a developer. design and business isn't for ever dev but i love it
It's funny. I interview technical candidates for the company I work for and while I will look for education on CVs, it's not really that big a deal. I'd rather be able to have a discussion about polymorphism, or the benefit of a design pattern, then talk about course work.
I've interviewed people with Masters in a technical field that couldn't write the signature for a java main method on a white board. I've also interviewed people with a GED, and after they breezed through all the canned interview questions we sat around and wrote UML representations of board games.
>>595418382 It actually made me a better person. He passed the first of december, so I'm still trying to pickup the pieces and focus. So thank you anon, it made my night that you guys all helped me out.
> you'll need to be seen as a valuable person among your peers Now are we talking personal characteristics that allow you to be easy to work with, comprehending the problems, etc?
yeah, that's actually what I want to be, that guy that has the ability to give input on something that isn't in my field but my opinion is still valuable.
I really want to be, like you said, that guy who can help in all dept. A "unicorn"
What is the culture like? Is there really that many jobs unfilled? I see this massive push for coding in younger generations so would be industry continue at the pace it's at in 4 years or will it be harder ?
i think more people will start programming, but the industry will also grow. maybe the bubble will pop. who knows.
just be better than everyone else (or a majority of people). its really hard to hire smart people.
if you want to be the "unicorn" type just remember this is a 15 - 20 year learning process. best advice i can give you is try to bootstap your own company. do the UI design, programming, and marketing. don't do it as a fun project. take it seriously. my failed startup had me take a summer off work making only a $3k doing contract work. starting your own company will force you to think about solving a problem, finding customers, educating them on your product, and building a product that is useful and easy for them to use.
>>595412438 not all of those certs are really going to help you get a job but they do have good knowledge. if you want networking get at least a ccna for an entry level job but you could get a pretty serious networking job with a ccnp. things like sec+ and stuff are nice. they help and look good but any one alone isnt going to get you a job
>>595419444 so if someone cant write the signature for a java main method on a white board is a bad coder? Language is just a tool, computer science is more about math than and to learn how to solve problems. Torvald would be very disapointed of your comment. That is the problem with a lot of developers, they stick to a language or a technology and forget what programming is really about, they just become monkey coders...
>>595408650 I'm in the process of getting my degree in computer Informational systems and computer science, I'm a 4th year college fag and I still don't think I know anything about programming, I'm taking intermediate Java programming and I don't feel confident enough to get a job as a programmer... Translating the logic from English to Java is what gets me. So in short, I'm not sure college is the best way to really learn computers. Or maybe my teachers just suck beyond belief, but programming isn't fun to me and I love computers
These CS programs usually make you take the 'math' version of the theoretical courses but the students are too dumb to fully comprehend the material so they water down the material. It produces dumb asses like >>595420638 that think since they took discrete math 101 they know all the CS theory.
No, it just means they attended a shitty CS program like 90% of the schools out there.
If you are weak in math and attend one of those schools you have nothing to worry about with a CS degree
i've done both, taken programming courses at community college and done a computer science degree at university.
the difference: if you are the type of person that's interested in how things work under the hood university will teach all the theory behind how things work,how compilers work,how code gets executed on processors,how to compare runtimes on two different algorithms when given massively huge datasets that would take years to run (math heavy).project managment,QA software testing procedures.university usually has less work load five 3hour classes per week,professors won't be on your case if you don't hand in an assignment or don't show up for a test cause that's just one less thing they have to mark..
if you are the type of person,reading...nobody got time for that,community college will teach you need to know to get an entry level job right now with a focus on hands on learning.if technology changes well you're on your own. you'll be in class 9-5 every day then go home to do home work all night and try to get a few hours of work on the weekend.instructors will be on your case if you don't hand something in.it felt kind of like high school
Software engineering != programming. 90% of people on software Dev teams don't touch code. A degree is just a prefilter for employers that show you put in effort and commitment. I put all non BS applicants straight in the garbage can
>>595415244 You're just a mathfag, I got to calculas, passed with a B+ and when on to take statistics and technologies an operations management which is statistics on steroids for business majors, and that shit it haaaaaarrrrrdddd...
OP. A CS degree is way more than just programming. But coding doesn't matter, it's all about problem solving. CSS and HTML aren't really programming languages. I mean, they are, but you should shy away from web languages if your goal is to be a programmer. You should pick an easy language to learn (Python probably) and start attacking complex logic problems. Learn to solve problems in the general case, not in a specific case. Learn the pros and cons of data structures, and learn OOP. Java is good for OOP, and good for most other things. But what you will learn as you go forward is that (most of the time) a language is just a tool to help you put your problem solving steps into implementation. Learning to PROGRAM and to solve problems is way more beneficial than learning Java for example. You will also learn that langauges have their advantages, but you can largely do many of the same tasks with practically all languages. A Computer Scientist can of course program, but also gets into the theory of actual computations. Such as, "is this problem solvable?" Youtube the halting problem, for example. It deals with the theory and application of computing things. At the end of the day, a CS degree should again give you more tools to solve problems, but if you can't solve problems in the first place, itll do nothing for you. Start looking at writing implementations for binary search for example, and what binary search actually is, and youll start to see what im talking about.
source: CS degree from god tier university, god tier employment
>>595422390 You sound like me, but I put up with way less programming. I went for a networking degree from the start. Then I got real lucky with a student assistant job at a gov agency where I do user configs. I think this will be enough to carry me. 4th year too big sigh of relief.
>>595425012 You are the dumbest guy in this thread second to this guy >>595424660 If you want a fucking job in the real world as a programmer, you are going to want to learn html and css first because that's what businesses are looking for, THEN Java. And you don't need to be fucking Enstin to be a programmer
>>595427239 He will come back and say they are programming language and thank you for convincing him to get a job in website design, which every company needs. Fuck 4chan wouldn't exist without html or css
"A programming language is a formal constructed language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer."
now that we've established that youre a stupid, uneducated fuck who hasnt taken a programming languages course, i would never go to a programming interview and say that, but forgive me for trying to be precise with my language.
>>595423047 I wish I was a math fag. I have a very poor infrastructure, or did, which stemmed from high school. I get As, but I study a fair amount. Also, more of an English fag. Always right A papers, and put in C effort.
>>595424660 totally agree,a degree teaches how to solve problems the most efficient way using proven methods and procedures.what languages to use in a given situation.one language might take 20 lines of code to do something another language can do in 1 lines using half the memory and 35% less cpu
>>595428216 I know how you feel, I use to get straight A's but it took way to much studying and stress, so I toned to down, I want to be an entrepreneur anyway. I'll be damn if I make a living working for someone else
>>595427693 programmes and web designers are two different things. You realy know shit about web dev. 4chan wouldnt exist without a good backend, 4chan isnt even pretty, i can almost swear there were no web designer involve in 4chan development.
>>595428015 nice definition from wikipedia. Keep telling that to yourself. Whitespace is also a language, but no real programmer consider it a real language, just like css and html. Actually you cant write any logic with that, that is why you cant consider yourself a programmer if you learn just css and html. Read a book or something, I dont want to charge you for a class if I have to reply again
>>595428566 for $800 a month i can get the best indian coder out of 1k ppl, and with that comment I will asume you are not even the best of your class. The good news are.... that there are a lot of jobs of monkey coders.
>>595430313 That's what I'm talking about a real man. A man who doesn't get his hands dirty doesn't deserve a place in this society. What happened to the strong silent type, the guy who doesn't fucking complain all the time.
That's what's wrong with men today, they need to work hard. Break rocks, lift heavy things, walk places. That's what our economy is craving.
>>595429220 i think the fact that you keep saying object oriented java or whatever means you just started your first semester in the entry CS class and are super excited to have learned new terminology.
I would suggest going for the degree. As you're working towards it look for internships with small, but stable businesses. That kind of experience gets you ahead of everyone else (doing real coding rather than writing documentation), and when you get the degree you can get some great offers.
Experience: 1 CS internship, 3 physics, $120k job offer before graduating with a BS.
>>595408650 a lot of you forgot about language and compiler theory. SDD and shit like that. Thats usualy the next step after automata. Also set theory, lambda calcul, etc. You have a shit load to learn before beside writting if on b: moron.
>>595431050 >>595431162 First of all, I've been in college for 4 years, second of all, what qualifications do you have that give you the right to say I'm wrong, and lastly, are you trolling me? Cause Saying I'm dumb when you are the one over here doing drugs is just ironic
>>595432067 Do better at being a teacher. Because that's all mathematicians and physicists do right? Ultimately become high school teachers, I don't how I feel about th future teachers of the world being on 4chan.
Im going to be applying for colleges in a couple of months. I have a 3.4 gpa in all honors and ap courses. I am fluent in Java, HTML&CSS, and I have some things under my belt like winning a webdesign contest. I wanna major in software engineering or just straight compsci. Suggestions?
>>595433614 Yes, probably 30-40% of my CS classes have fags that openly wear fedora autism fashion, anime cosplay/accessories, vidya computer skins/screensavers/shirts, etc. and talk about anime/nerd shit and try to hit on the 5 asian girls there. UofA. Like I said I enjoy most of these things too but don't openly talk about them because I'm aware it makes you look super cringe.
>>595432559 considering you live in the US the teacher thing is true. i live in central europe and there are many job oppurtunities for physicists or mathematicians especially in univeristy business or at companies who rely on software engineers (and literally everything with maths) :^)
also, the start of the discussion was quite illogical. if you study a subject just for job oppurtunities, CS is not a good choice either. economy, law or medicine would be far better.
>>595408650 Man this requires a long answer, to make this shit short, you should find what kind of software you want to write and for whom. If you wanna make network apps you should know a bit about nerwork protocols and encryption, if you want to develop any decent sized software you should learn about software engeenering you just don't sit in front of the pc and crap out code, the quality of the code and what kind of code you write matters a lot, if you wanna work in video games or scientific settings you have to have a very different mindset, if you want specific info just tell me what do you want to make.
>be 31 >been fucking around with computers since 14 >done projects here and there involving cinema 4d, entire adobe cs, 3ds max, autocad etc >wrote an AI script(Extendscript) that automated a design firms process: $2500 fuck yea! >1 of those people that can pickup any software and learn it quickly >been fucking around in stupid cust service jobs for past 15yrs >kept telling myself im gonna take computers seriously but never do >traumatic even happens >fuck this time to really learn programming >i learn by doing not classroom nor books >favorite game: Darkfall >Reverse engineer its custom mesh, animation, map, terrain formats >Dam I guess I'm not so stupid >Firm grasp on Python in the process
mfw in 8 months I've learned Python, C++ and Java. Working on assembly now. What if I took computers seriously at 14. Sigh...
Currently reverse engineering the game engine + writing a server emulator for Darkfall which is now shutdown.
Moral of the story: put ur mind to it and you can accomplish anything
Oh yea this be my first post ever. Lurked for 6 years.
>>595434244 I'm studying CS and CIS because I want to understand computer software programming and design, not be a programmer myself, I want to start a business and hire programmers to work for me. But I want to understand the fundamentals of programming so my employees don't screw me over with shit tier programming thinking I don't know better
>>595434992 Man a creative person is needed everywhere a creative man filling potholes will make a machine to fill them for him, if you want to work in the front end this could be interpreted in two ways, you want to be a front end programmer or a front end designer, if you only want to programm you could learn html and css, most of the front ends uh lets call them apis work with the same logic, most of them use xml instead of html but it is practically the same thing. If you want to design front ends you should start by studying something related to graphic design, then learn about usability and user experience, a front end developer has to be in contact with the world constantly there are thrends in this field too, you have to be always on the look out what is hype right now and apply it to your work, there is this thing for example that when you click on a website logo it sends you to the main page, this shit isn't specified anywhere it is just some thrend that caught up.
A degree means nothing. If you don't program as a hobby you'll never make it. So just do it, google "C tutorial" and get started.
>>595409569 >It's just hard gettting started by yourself you know? no it's not, it's the easiest fucking thing in the world. It's easier than getting started with knitting socks. It's easier than getting started with making grilled cheese sandwiches. The web is chock full of resources to get started. There's literally no valid excuse for not making it except being an unmotivated faggot.
I got my CS degree from a 4 year university 2 years ago. im making $93k a year in a city with a low cost of living, and i didn't get good grades, i graduated with a 2.98 GPA. Also, going to a 4 year school pretty much guarantees you'll know more than people who learned on their own or got quick certs. I know "senior" programmers who don't know basic design principals i learned during school, because theres a lot of stuff you'd never learn on your own because you only learn what you need to get by.
>>595436415 I think it's just specifically hard for me because for the past two years I've only taken care of my father. Quit school and my job to do so, so I've been "out of the game" for some time. I guess it's my confidence that's lackluster, but I know I can do things if I really cared to. I appreciate the honesty though anon.
>>595436823 Well, personal taste, but C is simple enough, it does everything, it's not full of bullshit like C++, it's oddly still popular, and gigashitton of resources, and it's pretty much the granddaddy of every other language you might want to learn later, doesn't matter if it's ObjC, Java or PHP really.
>>595437582 Yeah but you know, there really isn't much to it, take an hour at your computer every once in a while and soon enough you start getting somewhere. And you don't need a degree or even any prior work experience if you have a finished project you made all by yourself to vouch for what you can do.
>>595437350 Sure you can be a one man army, As I said to design a not only usable(search for this word in software engeenering context) but beatiful graphical interface you have to know a bit about graphic design. Most of the time interfaces are done by a graphic designer that knows a bit about software rather than a programmer that knows about art. You can learn as much as you want just try to make one thing at a time. And get very specific about what you want if you want to work in gadgets start researching about where you would like to work find in stackoverflow.com what are the qualifications the need for their employees and learn that.
>>595438767 Who's peeking out from under a stairway Calling a name that's lighter than air? Who's bending down to give me a rainbow? Everyone knows it's Windy Who's tripping down the streets of the city Smiling at everybody she sees? Who's reaching out to capture a moment? Everyone knows it's Windy And Windy has stormy eyes That flash at the sound of lies And Windy has wings to fly Above the clouds (Above the clouds) Above the clouds (Above the clouds) And Windy has stormy eyes That flash at the sound of lies And Windy has wings to fly Above the clouds (Above the clouds) Above the clouds (Above the clouds) Who's tripping down the streets of the city Smiling at everybody she sees? Who's reaching out to capture a moment? Everyone knows it's Windy
>>595440258 spend time studying/chilling/whatever in places with more traffic, not just the CS area of your school. unless you happen to look like orc or are awkward as fuck, you might catch the eye of a future exgirlfriend somewhere.
>>595442265 ooh you're asking for the way to catch a unicorn... I'm afraid I have no knowledge of that
I only saw 2.. TWO! real cute girls in my major when i was in school. one super cool and smart but taken (fml). the other bitchy and kinda dumb. the rest were just ehh and not gf type. (not that pretty)
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