If there is an alien race visiting Earth and it has 2 arms 2 legs hands a mouth 2 eyes affixed on a head on top of a torso and walks up rite on 2 legs it is undeniably related to earth in some way. I say this because in all of the universe for something else to evolve in the exact same way that we have here on Earth the possibilities are astronomically against it. Fact being what ever aliens are out there are probably something you can't even fathom. Why would they have eyes why not some other sensing organ. why would they have a head on top of a torso with arms and legs. I know why we have them and its hard to imagine any other way for an organism to be because that's all we really see here on Earth. An alien from a different planet in a different solar system or even galaxy could have a completely different way of life.
Idk this has been in my head for so many years now just thought i would share for anyone who hasn't really considered it.
>>590455682 so you think everyone has considered the implications of the stereotypical alien having the same anatomical layout as us? Maybe its in their mind but i doubt a lot of people have really considered it.
>>590455399 You really think you're enlightening people about aliens. Who is to say, they aren't humans from a more advanced civilization and that humans used to be all connected through the vast universe but a horrible barbaric cosmic monster/storm destroyed all communication. So it is taking the Galatic Electric Company years to rebuild communication.
>>590456048 but even by saying that your have to claim that they would have to be related to earth in some way. I'm saying that because again they have the same anatomical layout as most creatures on Earth. I would say the most likely explanation for greys would be inter-dimensional or time travel. Maybe exploring their past genetic code to cure some current problem. ( i know it sounds like crazy rambling but when aliens come into the conversation in my opinion almost anything is on the table.
What if aliens dont even have DNA? I mean. Seriously. Every life on earth is based on DNA but maybe on some other planets its somewhat else.
I sometimes imagine Proteinbiosynthesis as something like a Computers 0 or 1. Like yes or no. Its all a code. Couldnt it be possible for life, which developed in a completly different scenario to have a different code of life?
There are only so many ways to sense things and electromagnetic waves are pretty damned smart. Sure, when subject to a different set of environmental factors we can expect life to appear very differently, but we are looking for life on planets like earth and we should expect life on a planet like earth to be similar to life on earth. It's called convergent evolution: sharks, dolphins and ichtyosaurs have developed similar forms despite being only distant relatives.
>>590456617 This is what im talking about. We calculate the chances of alien life by calculating the theoreticaly inhabitable planets... what makes a planet inhabitable? why aren't there creatures who need mercury and oxygen is insanely poisonous. Why wouldn't there be a creature that thrives in 700 degrees.
>>590456416 no i get it 100% but maybe they seeded the planet to watch what would happen with their DNA as a base with various conditions to see how things evolved, maybe they are sterile and trying to figure out why it happened by trying to recreate.
or maybe the image of aliens were based on stories of demons. theres a lot of what ifs
Origin of species. Anything that evolves in a gravity well needs flat spaces to set things on. That goes for feet and legs. Look at all the life that evolved on earth that isn't related to humans, that have legs and feet. Certain traits are almost guaranteed if the planet has gravity. Now, if they don't.....
>>590457166 Oh yes indeed. But in between being a marine animal and becoming a marine mammal, its ancestors had fur and lived on land. (Living on all fours requires abs which is why the tail got flipped horizontally - but that is a side note)
walking upright has opened up two hands which aid us in the use of tools. any sentient being would likely have to at least have two legs and two arms. all other parts are debatable on the optimal set up. obviously the head could be almost anywhere.
>>590455399 One theory I had is they are us but more evolved and from the future. Maybe all these doomday scenarios have already happened and we've come back from the future to prevent these doomsday scenarios from making our way of living more difficult to endure. As creatures they appear to have larger heads and one less figure or toe. We're an intellegent species and maybe our evolutionary path was development of mental abilities vs physical abilities. There's tons of evidence "suggesting" they're vehicles can travel through dimensions or are able to travel faster then light.
The other theory in which im leaning towards that speaks to your thoughts is that everything in the universe is similiar to a computer in which it emulates experiences. This computer is organic in ways which gives us or reality of sense. Quatum physics and string theory suggest that everything can be converted to 0's and 1's. So in short everything is code. In order to have a setitent being you have to have (X) code. So in a way your DNA determines who you are and will become, and what experiences you are to have by it (what will transpire in your life).
3rd theory is a mixture of both were we survived all the predicted doomsday events and the future had become so bleak that we built a artificial computer to live in which as long as the machine runs we will in essence live for ever being re-incarnated into different experiences.
>>590455399 Evolution happens based on conditions and the environment, if the environment is similar then the resulting 'best modes' would also be similar. T-Rex had 2 arms 2 legs hands a mouth 2 eyes affixed on a head on top of a torso and walks up rite on 2 legs and is not related to humans. Bats developed methods of flight similar to birds and are not related, many insects did the same and even some dinosaurs. Google Convergent Evolution.
>>590456249 This, actually. It's the same reason why some sea creatures have what seem to us to be strange biologies. A head on top of a torso doesn't make sense for a starfish. That doesn't mean they're really aliens, it just means they're different than humans. OP is a fag, but for more reasons than normal.
>>590455399 they mixed there dna with another specie to serve as there slaves. think about a dog building a house. we are build the way we are because its the most efficient. we where put on this planet to cultivate the natural resources. mars was just like earth, it had atmosphere, water, and vegetation, for all we know we could of originated on mars and fled to earth right before something happened to it to make it the baren planet it is today.
>>590458083 very much like a video game, when we die (gameover) we start all the way back to the beginning again with no progress from previous attempts. When you beat the game you will have understood all of its secrets to beating it and no longer will have the desire to play it again right away. In time you might come back to play it again, to test your self again.
>>590456658 >If you don't want to listen to muh boring 1,5 hour long podcast with about average non-scientific cunts talking about aliens you have ADD Or maybe I just don't want to spend that much time listening to a conversation I could drunkenly be having with my own friends.
>>590458556 You don't even know what i'm trying to say, do you? Of course they are not like that. Anyone over 12 who isn't retarded wouldn't believe if he saw an 'alien', you know, the kind you see on tv and vidya. My point is you didn't blow any minds here
>>590457053 Well we exist out of the chemicals we exist of because there's a certain Goldilocks zone of reactivity between elements. For example, nothing really comes close to carbon in complex structures. Some chemicals react too violently to form lifeforms, etc. I'm not a chemist, but you should look it up. There's a reason thousands of astronomers are excluding certain planets, you're not a special snowflake that's the first one to think of these options.
>>590455399 ITT: uneducated people speculating on matters they have no experience on
If the universe is infinite and ever expanding, then the chance of another planet being created with conditions identical or close to those of earth are infinitely small. I.e it is entirely possible that there exists an alien race that evolved in conditions similar to ours
>>590458651 How do you know that you would have the same conversation with your friends if you haven't heard it yet? I'm thinking you are just afraid of being diagnosed with ADD by this licensed medical audio file.
>>590459533 they are excluding these planets, why? because they can't figure out how life would exist there? sounds legit. Kinda like how 200 years ago witches were real. You don't think in 1000 years we are going to look back at almost everything we do now and realize we were boarder line retarded in the whole scheme of things?
>>590456231 >they aren't humans from a more advanced civilization and that humans used to be all connected through the vast universe but a horrible barbaric cosmic monster/storm destroyed all communication. halofag pls go, your story sucked major balls
>>590460224 i do realize how big the universe is and thats why i am saying that it is unlikely something that looks identical to us has traveled through the universe and just chills and picks people up for joy rides in the middle of the night.
>>590460499 but by being THAT big, its probable the same or pretty similar conditions will take effect on a planet. Also, I believe I read somewhere that reaching that level of intellect mean that at some point at least they had to start being bipedal beings with the ability to grip things.
many things have convergently evolved in earths history, Eyes, insect hypodermic needles, Flight and many more
But intelligence like us has only evolved once in the known history of the universe. We are most likely a freak accident.
Chances of life are pretty high chances of intelligence lower chances of intelligence not destroying itself is pretty low
Even if a second earth existed, It took around half the life of our sun to arrive at us. We have hardly tickled space and science. It would take 10000 of years for another intelligent race to reach us even at light speed.
>>590461202 Yeah but what you read was wrote by a human. Someone that is part of a species who doesn't even understand the secrets of their own being yet. I am not saying that i am any better. I am just saying everyday we overthrow some mind blowing scientific discovery and say "maybe that wasn't so true". So for someone to state that once you reach a level of intellect you have to start walking on two and have hands is kind of ridiculous to me.
>>590455399 >About to blow some minds here... No. We've all considered this, perhaps your 12 year old brain finally reached a 90 IQ and you come in here blabbing like you're a fucking Einstein. Stop embarrassing yourself.
OP is actually completely wrong. Two eyes for 3D vision, arms, hands and fingers for manipulating the world, legs (though arguably not bipedal), a big brain very close to the eyes; these are things that an intelligent alien species will most very likely have to have in order to even become what we'd consider an intelligent alien species.
who fucking cares, aliens do exist, theres fucking tbousands of them. doesnt matter because everyone knows the human race is the race to evolve into the next thing beyond this universe. We're the answer
>>590461907 Who said they evolved vision, why are hand and fingers the only things that can manipulate the world, why are legs the way to move, again why eyes and why a brain in the way that we think of one? I think almost everyone missed the point because they are stuck on what they know and cant consider the idea that what some other unimaginable species isn't even possible to be known by us unless we were to experience it first hand.
>Dr. Ralph Lachman's reporthttp://siriusdisclosure.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/signed-Lachman-report.pdf
inb4 you didn't hear about this in the mainstream news
also, protip: If ETs are officially acknowledged, science will ask: how did they get here? In the answer to that question lies technology that would get us off oil, coal, gas and the whole world changes. It's about power.
If you could measure the entire width of the universe, In that moment the universe would have a defined size, It would have grown after but at the point you measure it, it has a defined size. So it is not infinite.
Also just because the universe is massive beyond human understanding does not mean that an exact copy of you exists. The age of the universe is a gradient radiating out from the big bang. So since it took this long to produce us, chances are we will be long gone or the universe will suffer heath death before we or anything like us appears again.
Intelligence is not a vital part of survival. The majority of species do just fine without self awareness
Which amazes me more than the possibility of aliens being like us or not is that there is a bunch of /b/tards in this thread who might have different opinions on whatever but they all do know what they are talking about. Dear god, guys. Ive never experienced you giving valid, comprihensible arguments.
>>590455399 >be alien >in ship >telepathy with anon >ayy lmao what if we press random teleport >anon responds ayy lmao >see earth >turn on light absorbing cloak >approach over house >ayy who is that lmao >hover our ship closer >see square screen >what is that >lmao it says twitter in human >looks closer >How Can Mirrors is real >quickly do 360 hover away >hide in cloud >we is safe now
>>590462397 >Who said they evolved vision, Seeing the world is a bretty gud thing. Tons of animals have, independently of each other, evolved eye sight. It's not a fluke of evolution, by any means.
"why are hand and fingers the only things that can manipulate the world," What else would be a good thing, barring psychic powers? Small digits are perfectly suited for intricate work. A dolphin is incredibly intelligent, but even the smartest human being couldn't invent jack fucking shit with flippers.
" why are legs the way to move," What else? Wheels? There's a Vsauce episode on that. It's not feasible to evolve a wheel. Flying? Tons of problems with that; size being one.
"again why eyes and why a brain in the way that we think of one?" A brain is incredibly complex and need a shitload of cooling. Centralizing it is simply, evolutionarily, beneficial.
"I think almost everyone missed the point because they are stuck on what they know and cant consider the idea that what some other unimaginable species isn't even possible to be known by us unless we were to experience it first hand." I think you're in love with a poorly thought out idea. Not being condescending, just saying.
Hey /b/tards. Why do you think the knowledge of extraterrestrial life is suppressed? Because if they're here, we will figure out that it's possible to use Tesla zero-point energy generators and big oil will go down.
>>590463433 look at the post I replied to and the one he replied to. Its talking about walking, not swimming or climbing.
It would be naive to believe the only means of motion is through walking or running, however, unless we are talking about an alien world that is some extreme in terms of terrain or weather, we can assume there will be many options of locomotion available throughout the aliens evolution
>>590464435 i get what you are saying and im not saying you are wrong. What i am saying is this is the way that we know things to best work out. Just because it is what we think is best does not mean it is best.
>>590463157 It's a common misconception that the ant queen controls her workers. She doesn't. They work on pure instinct. "If I see X, I will do Y". The queen is just the most important ant, but she doesn't control her daughters. I guess that they could communicate by pheromones - as hives animals do - until this hyper intelligent queen developed technology, and that's an interesting thought, but not exactly as ground breaking as OP is searching for.
>>590464951 we are talking about evolution, over millions of years, in fact. Im pretty sure how everything has evolved here on earth is pretty damn good considering our environment. What you say "we think is best" could very well be - For our world, and for any other earth-like planet.
>>590457053 Because earth like climates provide a place where there is a wide range of molecular structures possible, if you are on a planet that is 700 degrees, most complex structures would be unstable. On the opposite end, it is hard for reactions to occur when everything is a solid
>>590464833 Certainly, and I'm not denying the chance of an alien species with wings, I'm just saying that the super basic layout of eyes, brain, torso with organs, legs, arms and fingers works for humans because it really fucking works in the reality we inhabit.
>>590464951 Evolution is just a process. It brings forth the best suited kinds of animals. It's no fluke that the dominant species are humans with out big, big brains and our opposable thumbs. No other species even comes close to us.
I'm not saying Man is some pinnacle of evolution, I'm just saying that our template objectively works and scientists agree that intelligent aliens would probably share the same basic template.
>>590465263 Yes this is exactly what i am saying. But even on a planet that is an exact earth clone to have arms and legs set in the same portion of a body that has all the same general parts. It kinda seems far fetched. Especially if you take into consideration that all probability points to humans were just a tiny possibility of ever existing.
I saw a fucking flying cigar something like 4 mts above my head disappearing into some kind of invisible pouch into a mountain a couple of hundreds of metres away. Cigar shape, about 80 metres in lenght and 10 in width.
That was 12 years ago. I was a little kid and i was with my 2 cousins and my aunt. We saw it all. My aunt basically said us to shut the fuck up and never tell anybody what we saw and took us to hospital to take some blood tests. We had some slightly above average radioactivity levels in our blood, the kind of level you usually have when they inject you a radioactive marker when you take CAT
Police questioned my aunt some days later. Discovered that by accident but she always denied it. Bullshit, if you ask me. Anyway that's it. Oh and i have some minutes if you want to talk
>>590465842 >i always found it far more interesting to view the world as working under the same rules Yeah, thought about that too. It's easy to compare the human body - a big cluster or bag of cells, some even fairly independent - with earth itself. Going further, maybe the entire universe is just a "creature" itself, and we're tiny, tiny organisms inhabiting it, like the unknowing bacteria living in ours guts. But that's getting a bit hippy dippy and not really relevant.
Echo location has developed atleast 4 times that we know of.
I would think that is the second most likely form of navigation. We put far to much stock in the sun, hell not long ago people thought life without light was impossible until we found the sulphur vents.
>>590457677 The head works best atop the torso because that is where the sensory organs can collect the most data from, sensory organs need to be clustered near the brain to allow for minimal reaction time ( think of it like a pc attempting to ping a server, closer they are together, the better the ping rate. In evolutionary terms, that 'ping rate' makes a hell of a difference)
>>590466294 Yeah man we had the same idea. Its like all things work towards intelligence. i always thought myself that we could just be a single brain cell in a giant organism working on a time scale we can not even comprehend.
It got me thinking about god when I was younger, I was never religious. Infact my granddad always said when you die you rot and that's it haha.
I like the idea we are like cells in gods body, sure you love your body but how often do you get depressed about a white blood cell dying? God needs us, but our suffering and death is all part of the cycle.
>>590466328 Echo location is fine and all, but it doesn't work for wide, open reaches, and I don't believe it works well enough to be apex predator in most settings. If a tiger had echolocation and no eyes, would it be able to hunt as effectively? I doubt it.
Furthermore, and far more importantly, it'd be utter shit for inventing intricate technology. "Bewbew, this cog is wrong over there, bewbew, that widget has to be screwed on tighter". Especially considering that technology is noisy as shit. No, I seriously, sincerely doubt we'd see galaxy spanning aliens who detected the world through echolocation.
>>590466882 >Its like all things work towards intelligence. Disagree there. Evolution doesn't necessarily favour intelligence at all. A big brain costs tons of energy, and if you're not getting the bang for your buck energy wise, the brain will shrink.
I don't know why no one takes into consideration that some alien civilizations could of existed billions of years ago but are now long gone and we're just on some kind of universal cycle. We know Earth will be destroyed on day, but who will take our spot in the universe?
>>590466991 That is assuming the other animals have light though anon. If the planet has no light then every animal has the same echo location in a planet that does not require light. Say a planet that is heated by the tidal forces of another planet, It would not to be hard to picture atleast for me. You only really need to see what is in your frame of reference, and use scent for the long range stuff.
Richard dawkins talked about this on something I was watching. A creature with echo location could without much alteration build an image with colour from the echo location and textures.
Hell I remember a company was building a device that could let blind people see by relaying the image through the toung
>>590467594 >I don't know why no one takes into consideration that some alien civilizations could of existed billions of years ago but are now long gone and we're just on some kind of universal cycle. What makes you think few people have considered this? It's not uncommon in fantasy/sci fi to have old empires. Look at Wh40k. There are tons of races that have once ruled the galaxy but are not waning - eldar and necron, for example.
That thought isn't as special as you might think/want/hope.
>>590468055 no it doesn't..... as well on a planet with different atmospheres and perhaps a much stronger gravitational effect more legs would be advantageous or perhaps the terrain would be rough they could look like giant spiders for all we know. complete with exoskeletons and so forth
>>590467963 Also wrong. Evolution doesn't favour anything. Whatever survives survives to breed, complex or not. Look at the eye; very complex. Look at animals that evolutionarily went underground, in caves. It's super dark there, so no need for eyes, so they became blind. They lost complexity because it wasn't beneficial.
There's no driving force or goal behind evolution.
>>590458985 They are limited by the need to be structurally sound, any intelligent land based creatures are likely to have a skeleton of some sort, hands for the construction and manipulation of tools, mouth of some sort, anus or cloaca, legs so they can move quickly(aliums would need to be reasonably quick as otherwise they would have gotten eaten by other shit on their own planet before becoming intelligent), eyes to see, ears to hear, eyes and ears would be close to the brain therefore a head is required so that sensory information can be efficiently collected. Am I forgetting anything?
>>590468935 no it's not that its good or not its just some talk about something odd and lots of people saying stupid shit for all of us to laugh at and then actual somewhat coherent debate mmmm well coherent for /b/
>>590468463 Tidal forces could heat a planet, well a moon.
its not that much of a leap that echo location could become precise enough. Its like connecting up a new sensor to a monitor.
You just need the middle man to decode it. When people see for the first time or hear for the first time they just hear noise. We take it for granted but we have to learn to see, or hear and recognise sound.
As I was saying the brain is doing all of the work, you can give someone partial sight by interfacing with the mouth.
If we make the jump that bats for example see some kind of image, which would make sense, I see no reason a creature could not have our level of vision with echo location. The ability to vary the focus and such.
>>590469446 why? look at how well arthropods work in just about any environment, with the aid of mandibles or claws especially or perhaps they'd have extra appendages that would work like feet and limbs for interacting with their environment, also an chitin type exoskeleton is great for keeping the environment out and surviving in hostile conditions and for keeping energy inside the body rather then a hard skeleton and relatively soft skin, they wouldn't need to walk upright at all though
>>590469680 The fact that echo location needs so many kinds of middle men is sign enough that it's not the best way of detecting the world. I realise that it doesn't mean it's impossible and that OP was just saying that aliens -could- look different, but it's difficult to invent things when you can't detect tiny parts. Good luck making your tongue-device if you can't build a small, intricate piece of technology, because you simply cannot see what you're doing.
>>590467154 >>590468055 only if you're evolved from earth species. you could possibly be what's basically just a skull of some shape or form, and very nimble tentacles that branches out.
pretty sure that is enough to make advanced shit. it's equivalent of a brain (there are other possibilities, brains are just our way of doing stuff) could grow a lot like that. unhindered by muscles and jaws etc.
>>590460246 You are forgetting that for life to exist, complex molecules must first be able to form. As other elements do not possess the same abundance or versatility as carbon, in that it can make 4 covalent bonds with almost anything and still be stable, it is logical to assume that complex intelligent life would be carbon based
>>590471008 I'm talking about technological middle men. You'd need something to see colour to detect the universe, and for that you need some sound-to-colour-device. You really have to refine echolocation a heaping shitload to understand tiny gears in tiny machines and work around loud noises for big machines. Echolocation is admittedly not impossible, just far, far, far shittier than eye sight.
Well I admit that it's annoying to see little green men in every science fiction stuff ever, but what if this is the only viable way to travel trough space ? I know it sounds unlikely but maybe every alien race shaped differently was confronted to some problem that eventually prevented them from reaching space age.
>>590461592 Hands are required for constructing and using tools, bipedal movement is the most efficient form of locomotion for saving brain power. Anything with much more than say 6 limbs would not have enough brain power left for complex problem solving
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