Judo general thread

>>860638
Thinking about going back to Judo. I stopped loving it for a while but I want to go back.

>>860759
So go? What's stopping you?

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>>860638

Okay. Got fat and weak over Christmas break, and definitely felt it when I got back on the mats.

Working on my Ippon seoi nage and alternate attacks from there. (Ippon seoi ko uchi gari and ippon seoi harai goshi, I guess? ) Some success, but they're still more of a surprise attack than a toqui waza for me.

Working on harai goshi and IUchi Mata from a close in, high sleeve and armpit grip, too, since I usually end up fighting lanklets.

Any Judo related Christmas gifts? I've got a sweet Matsuru gi on the way.

pic related, sans leg grab, is what I'm trying.

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>>861248
ko uchi makikomi combo with an initial seoi nage makes a great modern variant that doesn't rely on the leg grab.

What do you lot love about Judo?

>>860638
Brown belt test in a few weeks. As far as techniques and kata go, I'm good - or should be by then. Now if only I hadn't had a toehold accident that fucked up my foot, I'd be sure of the outcome. As it is, there's a bunch of throws I can't do, so I may have to postpone the exam.

Might still go for 1st dan at the end of this year though, if everything works out.

>>863479
Throws, everything else is shit.
>90% of randori is fighting for grip/position

>>863479
I like judo because you hit people with the motherfucking earth.

Judo is cool because of all the neat throws that are available. And randori is full contact sparring.

freaking out because the uni that our club is at got rid access to the place we use to train and stopped reconising martial arts clubs since they dont make the school money or something.
May not have a place to train anymore and there is nothing I personally can do about it but wait and see how things turn out.

In the mean time I got a gym (the kind with weigths) membership and been just focusing on improving my over all "attrbutes".

>>864003
Do yourself a favor and buy Starting Strength. It has literally all the info you need for your first year or two of weight training.

Since I'm thinking I'd probably like to start judo, does this place look any good other than the fact it seems that the website is out of date? http://www.gurneejudoclub.com/
This place is also close by, but the first one is within biking distance and seems cheaper.
http://cohensjudoclub.com/index1.html

>>864105
Well, a qt in our club that is also apart of the powerlifthing club showed me and a few others the baiscs, but I guess since I am training a lot on my own it can't hurt to learn more.

thinking about starting judo,what are the most important things i need to know/have before i start?

>>864215
I can't think of anything you need to know before starting judo. Just bring some water and have fun.

>>864232

are there a lot of katas and what will i need to practice most?

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>>863479

1) Learning technique, keeping my fighting mentality sharp, testing myself against other hard fighting sons of bitches. (But honestly, that applies to any legitimate MA)

2) Big throws are awesome. Grace and Power combined to slam a motherfucker.

3) You're never un armed when you can hit a guy with a planet.

4) Lots of mental gains from training Judo. There's something pure and classic about training. It's up there with gardening and hiking for me, in a weird way I can't really explain.

By the way, here's 'Judoka' for any of you Judo cats who haven't already seen it.

https://www.nfb.ca/film/judoka

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>>864234

there are, but Katas don't really come into play for your first year or two.

On your first class you will likely do a warm up, get taken aside by a senior Judoka to be shown how to do some essential breakfalls, probably be shown a throw or two, maybe a ground technique.

At my old dojo, newbies were given a week or so worth of that training, then were gradually moved into randori. Not hard shiai stuff, but a little movement and throw-for-throw with an experience black belt who would make sure they didn't get hurt.

>>864294
Cheers pal.

>tfw sensei won't let me skip yellow and jump straight to orange
It's really demotivating. Belt testing is up soon and all the other beginners are going for yellow, but I actually attended much more classes as anyone of them and I really thought I would get some sort of recognition for it. Not letting me test for orange feels like putting extra effort in doesn't pay off at all. Might as well just show up every other week and don't bother with remembering technique names.

>>864312
>>864312
>waaaah why won't they double promote me.

Why would they do that? If you go to a dojo that tests for belts why would they let you take the next test withput passing the first? Why do you give a shit in the first place? You're not there to get a belt your there to learn judo. If you're getting better at judo then that's what your extra effort is for. You sound like you have a shitty attitude.

Some white belts man

>>863479
Honestly rolling with cuties is the best part.

I love that they let you try out things right away against resisting opponents, even when both of you don't have a clue what you're really doing yet. Learned a knew submission? Then get on the map and show you can do it to someone who's trying to do the same thing.

And I really love the total physical exhaustion even when you're not actually moving that much.

>>864328
Is Judo really that good exercise? I thought it was mainly learning and then a bit of intense exercise.

>>864294
Great movie. Thanks for linking - can't believe I've never seen it.

>>864312

If you think Judo is about "how to get a higher belt as fast as possible" you should consider a different sport..

You put in extra effort for yourself. For your skills. And hopefully for the fun.

And later if you do competitions belt colours mean jack shit anyway.

Stop comparing yourself to others, that's the road to eternal unhappiness. Just give it your best and you'll see results sooner or later. Be patient.

>>864323
Brah I'm not asking to be promoted, I'm asking to be given the chance to prove myself. If you don't think that being told that you're just as bad as everyone else after trying twice as hard is demotivating, then I admire your mental game and I'll do my best to step up.

>>864362
Thanks, you're right.

>>864394
>being told your just as bad as everyone else
>I need a chance to prove myself

Hate to break it to you champ but you're probably not half as good as you think you are and you'll learn that as you get more experience. Don't expect special treatment.

>>864394

>Thanks, you're right.

You're welcome.

You see, when I was a white belt I was also very eager to get yellow as fast as possible. Everybody hates to be the white belt.

But you just don't do two belts at the same time unless you have very good reasons (i.e. someone who has only "child belts" and has to repeat some belts for adults). That's just how it works.

But be sure that it's worth to go as often as you can (and want). Wherever there's effort, there's success. Just enjoy the trip and have a good time.

>>864334
Newaza is a lot of anaerobic exercise. Judo is big on the legs, back, and core muscle groups. Judo will definitely make you stronger.

>>862105
how am I supposed to do that shit on a 100kg dude

>>863479
>controlling my opponent in the clinch
>throw niggas

>>864616
Get better at kuzushi

I`ve trained kickboxing, MMA, BJJ, but the shit i enjoy most is Judo, don`t know why, but it is hardcore shit when it comes to training and i believe it fit really well to my complexion, i`m a 1,75 mt. 85 kilos fag and not that good at throws, but i`m decent on counters and ne waza and it`s a great fun to let the other nigga try to throw you, going for the counter, going for the ground and choke or arm bar the nigga till tap, i find more fun on Judo that let`s say BJJ `cos BJJ is more subtle and technical while Judo is more aggresive and explosive, BJJ is more diverse and if groundfighting is your shit, that`s your thing, but i find Judo be more fun than other MAs at least on the ground.

>>864334
I don't know if judo's good exercise but it's very exhausting.

>>864334
One of Dr. Kano's objectives in arranging the judo curriculum was bridging the gap in physical education between sports and gymnastics. Sports have the advantage of (sometimes) training useful movements and are interesting enough to keep the layperson's attention in training, but they lead to an unbalanced development of the body. Gymnastics, on the other hand, lead to a balanced development of the body but train movements that are generally neither useful nor interesting. Dr. Kano's judo curriculum (which may be different from how your school teaches it, especially if they're fat Americans) strives to teach useful and interesting movements in a fashion that leads to balanced development of the body.

>>864921
Totally, you excercise all of your muscles, and develope great energy and stamina. And it´s great when it comes to face a real fight

>>864394
>Just as bad as everyone else

I just got my yellow belt before christmas, granted a little earlier than some of the others and you're just being a right cunt mate. It's not about the belts it's about learning and having fun. At least in my opinion.

Anyone reccommend any decent weightlifting routines for Judo? Was thinking of doing the Texas Method.

>>864977
Post Kano's curriculum plox

>>869019
Kodokan judo by jigoro kano is basically the judo bible. It also serves as a good reference book.

I'd say it should be required reading for all aspiring judoka.

>>867147
Same one here, just back from my first session of the new year and got riggidy rekt, 11/10 would get slammed by big black belt again. In all seriousness though shit I missed Randori and Ne Waza

>>869265
Except when actually devising the rules of competition.

Kek.

Are long time Judokas pretty butt-blasted about what the current Judo rule set looks like?

>>869338
I dont think many people like it, the traditionalists don't, the people drawn to MMA don't. The best defense Ive heard is it doesn't change the game that much

>>869265
Derpy question but where can I read it in English?

>>869449
Google kodokan judo and buy it off Amazon you silly bitch

>>869485
I'm sorry sempai, pls don't Ippon me again!

>>862105
Been working on this a lot lately. I try to slide my leg out more than this gif. less of a hook when I do it. Beautiful technique though.
>rank: sankyu

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>>864334

If you're training with a competitive club, it's a great workout. Hell, even the more recreational dudes tend to roll pretty hard.

>>864616

Kuzushi, tsukuri, kake, bud.

Honestly, stuff like this should be your go-to against big guys.

>>869338

Nobody likes the new rules. They were a sacrifice offered up to stay in the Olympics, which, in itself, is a bit of a poison pill.

There are always rumours circulated that leg grabs are coming back, so hopefully they do.

>>870136
They're gauging how the upcoming Olympics goes and they're going to determine whether they're going to reinstate leg grabs or not.

Newaza and randori is kicking my ass. What does everyone do at the gym to help with their cardio? I've recently added tabata training using battle ropes and I normally do interval training on the elliptical after doing weights.

>>871088
run at least 30 mins every morning
100 uchikomis before and after classes
and more mat time.

>>862105
I will try this shit tomorrow on the biggest black belt in my gym

I'm a white belt btw

Also is it bad to tomoe nage people constantly because it's the only throw I can do because I just use my mass and leg strength

>>871622
do you actually throw for a score or do you just wind up pulling guard and stalling?

>>871088
My judo coach told me to do a 20 rep squat set periodically and also to do 50m sprints with short rest times.

>>871624
I always try to score for a throw because I want to learn throws.

Asking the more experienced guys.
How can I, as a white belt, make sparring with you more worth your while? I don't really wanna waste time of someone who'd rather fight tougher opponents to prep for a competition or somesuch, but there are no white/yellow belts in my club so I have to roll with the experienced guys or not roll at all.

>>871641
mainly when there comes to an experience gap, the higher rank (i'm assuming dan rank) is just looking for a body to fit their throws in, ideally you're relax not spazzing/muscling or tense up when taking your falls cause someone is going to get hurt.

>>860638
I used to be pretty okay at judo, but now I'm two years out of practice and out of shape to the point I move like a shitty orange belt. I want to jump-start my return to the sport with a one-month intensive training curriculum, 8+ hours a day, 6+ days a week. Where do I go? I'm an East Coast Ameribro but I can relocate.

>>871641
Don't spaz. Fall properly to protect yourself, and (for now) don't be ashamed when you're mostly on the defensive - but keep moving and looking for any opening to exploit. Pay attention to grip fighting and balance breaking - simple, but essential.

If I start judo at a competition or Olympics focused place, are there things I wouldn't learn?

>>875688
You wouldnt learn how to have sex

>>875689
Of course, I said judo, not bjj.

>>875688
Potentially anything outside the rules presumably, including but not limited to
>techniques where one grabs the legs
>certain ways of grip breaking
>old school stuff that has gone out of fashion

Kata will also more than likely be taught only as far as needed for belt tests. On the upside, you'll definitely learn how to throw people.

>>875688

Not really.

IMHO competitive Judoka don't move as clean as the more technique focused guys. But that's okay, you fighting is messy so naturally you'll move more sloppy.

>>864394
you don't need a belt to prove how good you are. If you're really good then you can prove it by beating poeple that doubt you.

I skipped a month worth of practice due to holidays and personal issues and now I'm kind of ashamed of coming back to my judo place.

>>877462
And how is sitting at home going to change that? Unless you've been a total douchebag all the time people will be happy to see you.

>>877488
Thanks. I was going to go anyway, just kinda anxious.

>>877548
Did not train at all over the past month while I wen't home for the holidays, came back and honestly the only negative I felt was in my own fitness level during randori, which will of course improve with MORE TRAINING!

Is there any point in training judo at home, with friends? Just practice getting into position for throws and so on? Will it help me improve faster for my actual judo classes?

>>877684
Yeah endurance is the quickest to degrade, also fastest to build.

>>877733
Train every opportunity you get. Train against your friends, train against trees, train against empty air. Just train.

>>871641
If it's free training, I'd suggest asking for advice on your own technique, or suggestions of what you could do against them.

Maybe it's a personal thing, but I like trying to help others with suggestions about why a technique they're trying isn't working, or showing them different ways to do it.
And teaching, even a little, is a good way to learn.

For randori, I say give a bit of fight, it's always good to try techniques against someone who's going to respond totally different. But don't go fully defensive, be loose and go in for techniques (even if you do it terribly).
And perhaps after an attempt or match, ask why something did/didn't work.

So, in addition to taking up Kyokushin (and maybe Shotokan, I dunno) to level out my striking ability, I've recently been thinking of Judo to work on my grappling, stand-up or otherwise. Only problem is the "closest" places are about an hour or two away from my location and I hate long drives(an hour isn't much I know, but still). There's some BJJ gyms that are much closer, but I kind of want to stay the traditional route and Judo is a little more attractive to me. Any pros or cons to this decision?

>>878091
You're picking up 3 styles at once?

>>878109
I'm practicing Shorin-Ryu right now, mostly for fundamentals since I've been out of the martial arts for over 15 years. I'm looking to invest in Shotokan for striking power and/or Kyokushin for strength and endurance fighting if ever the need arises(though I'm leaning more towards Kyokushin).

I wouldn't say I'm picking up three at once, more that I'm trying to roadmap my progress. It's probably a little too ambitious - and expensive - at the moment

>>878131

IMHO it's just impotrant that you train. Don't think too much, just start somewhere.

If you can't afford practicing two styles at the moment, do just one of them. No problem.

>>860638
When I apply a triangle choke my knee hurts. Where am I fucking up?

>>878756
Can't say much without some pics/vids of you applying a triangle, but to make a start
>which knee?
>where does it hurt? (name specific part or show on random knee/triangle pic)

>>878786
I experience a sort of separating, vaguely burning sensation in the medial aspect of the knee joint of the leg going behind uke's head.

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>>878795
>>878756
I would guess that maybe you are toe-holding yourself due to lack of a proper foot position. Your toes should point upward (dorsi flexion) and the back of your knee should around your low shin. Your foot should not be behind your knee.

It's okay to start there, and to adjust. But if they fall over to their side and you land on your foot, you can badly fuck up your ankle/knee. It's happened at my gym.

Here is a good foot position.

If this isn't it, there's probably something fucked with your knee/hip.

>>878799
Do you have a good picture of this toe-holding you think I'm doing? It's possible I just have screwy knees, I've had issues with them in the past.

>>878803
Not him, but this is what he means
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9yfi5N1O3dA#t=24

>>878799
>>878819
Also, have a look at the third major mistake at 0:54. Can also cause knee troubles.

>>878820
>>878819
Thanks, I'm not toe-holding myself, but I might be keeping my hips too square to uke's hips. I'll see if I can get in a triangle choke in class tonight and report back with my results.

>>864213
>qt in our club that is also apart of the powerlifthing club
wife/10

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>>864312
Martial arts is about more than the techniques you can perform...

>>871088

Moderate paced warm up run
(1 mile at least )

Sprint regime (at least 4 sprint sets of three) and or jump rope

do a a quarter mile and some more sets

repeat as is possible

Moderate cool down run

Try do a long run at least once a week if your schedule allows

>>878799
why do the triangle from guard since it takes to long and you'll get stood up and not the usual judo triangle from turtle?

The more I train judo, the less I seem to understand it. This is normal, right?

>>880211
What do you mean getting more brain damage

>>879472
Why not do it when the opportunity arises? It's won me matches.

>>880211
You're being a bit vague, but if your name is an indication of your rank, then don't worry and continue training, it'll sort itself out in due time.

>>879472
I can't ever seem to land triangles, now, I'm only a yellow belt and all but could I get a little help? My dojo is good but there's a language barrier since I'm not in an english speaking country.

Landed my first ippon. Judo might be easier than I thought.

>>880257
Update, landed my first Sankaku-Jime last night, feels good man

>>860638
Here's a question, I've heard a bunch of friends who do BJJ talk about their belt lineage but I've never heard any other Judoka talk about it, what's up with that?

>>882010
Gracie Propaganda

>>882073
That's.........actually very straightforward and believable, thank you.

>>882010
It gets talked about very, very occasionally in judo if someone is close to Kano or someone else interesting and it comes up in conversation. But mostly >>882073

>>882090
>>882086
Yes, the Gracie's are a bunch of shitlords. Stay away from them.

Anytime my coach or his long time training partner tell stories about having been with them, they always inadvertently (not the point of the story) look like assholes

My favorite was when my coach was driving with Renzo to a match in Chicago. Someone Cut Renzo off, Renzo motioned the guy over, gets out of the car, sucker punches the guy and drives off.

>>878131
>Shotokan for striking power
I think you'd be better off training Kyokushin or Muay Thai for that. Sure Kyo doesn't do head punches or elbows but you'll learn to be tough as nails, throw mean bareknuckle body shots and surprisingly agile kicks. Unless it's some sort of rare Shotokan school that does full contact sparring all Shoto will give you is a decent base which you could've gotten elsewhere and a lot of point sparring which isn't the best way to go unless you're fairly talented at translating it into full contact situations, like Lyoto Machida.

>>882165
I figured that'd be the case for Shotokan. It's why I said and/or back there, but I'm glad to see someone pick up on the 'or'. Regardless, my edging in regards to Shoto and Kyo is mostly rooted in seeing folks like Rick Hotton as apparent masters of their craft in power generation. Though I suppose you're right that when it comes down to it, it's mostly just good for a good base and explosiveness in technique.

Bump-waza

>>882165
I dunno I'd go with boxing or kyo, not muay thai.

help going to a judo class in five mins panicking anxious scared and lazy (still gonna go though no encouragement needed)

>>885140
how is posting here asking for help when you got class in 5 min this board is slow

also pic and time stamp.

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>>860638
Been busy coaching wrestling season but had the chance to hit the open mat of my judo class.

My harai is a tad rusty. been hitting my rides into kata gatame rather well though

>>885218
Nice to see you're still here. By the way, got any recommended tutorials/personal words of wisdom on pick-up techniques/suplexes in general? Been working them into my game since I have the strength and flexibilty for them, but they aren't exactly trained often in my Judo club, let alone in my BJJ club.

Also brown belt test 5 days. Should be good if my foot holds. BJJ promotions in two weeks. Next in line for purple, but I hope they grant me another half year or so in blue.

>>885140
Did you get rekt?

2 cups of bull semen every hour

>>864334
>bit of intense exercise
lmao you are in for a wild ride m8

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>>885804
Thanks, nice to feel missed or something. Anyway
ura nage/suplexes in a judo/BJJ and hell even high school wrestling rule set tends to come off a counter for a slow hip throw/koshi waza. You can even land them off a shitty trip like ouchi and even osoto.

But the main thing is how can you create more openings and force more opportunities instead of waiting for uke to botch their move?

2 core concepts would be checking/blocking their hip to prevent or at least slow their kazushi and give you a window of opportunity

The second concept would be gripping. Since the no leg grab rule its been a sort of golden era for suplexes/ura nages as countries that traditionally focused on leg grab moves have moved onto ura nages and developing more variants and set ups which are a tad hard to explain with my own depth of knowledge.

Russia, Georgia, Mongolia have produced many highlight reel ura nages, not just defensively but a lot of offensive movement to land their slams.

They usually hit them from either the russian 2 on 1 grip, over head belt grip, or double sided belt grip.


Personally for me in terms of pick up, I've been enjoying the no leg grab kata gatame and the mongol lift (uchi mata/ura nage hybrid) that the Mongolians have introduce into judo's DNA around 2010-2012, there's no japanese name but its from Mongolia's wrestling tradition, but its a fun pick up to land.

I'll post both mongol lift gifs and ura nages.

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>>888507

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>>888537

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>>888553
Loved the Georgian's reaction after the Japanese player hit him with a very non Japanese move, it was like "did i really get caught with that?"

Also the Mongolians have introduced their pick up into Sumo. Was debating wither or not to put this in the Sumo thread.

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>>888585
Ura nages.

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>>888670

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>>888747

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So I'm pretty shit at recognizing double leg takedowns. Most of that is probably due to wrestling inexperience.

I'm interested in Tawara-Gaeshi as a counter in case I don't react fast enough to sprawl. Can I make it reliable enough as a counter?

>>889191
Pull guard and choke them out with a guillotine

>>885828
Nah I'm the sensei.

Does anyone here lift? Judo's still messing with my lifting.

Now that wrestling is gonna thrown out of the Olympics do you think Judo will be going back to leg grabs?

People always explained to me the #1 reason that they're not allowed was to distinct Judo from wrestling.

>>889327
>messing with my lifting
How? Recovery?
I lift mon-wed-fri and Judo tue-thur. I would say lifting affects my Judo because I'm not at full strength on Judo days but Judo doesn't affect my lifting at all. In fact Judo did wonders for my grip and forearm strength during Deadlifts.

>>889345
Yeah. I lift in the morning, and do judo in the evening, so I can either do judo and lift in the morning the next day (I feel completely wrecked lifting, can only finish the first set, rest are wrecked), or lift in the morning and judo in the evening, which is not good for judo and not good for lifting, but kinda okay.

I guess my body fails to replenish glucose or whatever it is in the muscles? Dunno.

>>889345
By the way, were you doing judo and then added lifting, or were you lifting and then added judo? Or did you start both at the same time?

>>889366
That's an unlucky lose-lose situation I guess. You could play around with volume for lifting (as in less reps and exercises, maybe only one heavy set, avoid isolation) to maybe not exhaust you as much. Is there any chance you could lift immediately before Judo training? This worked for me very well in past, going from the weightroom directly onto the mat.

>>889367
I've been lifting for a little over 4 years and doing Judo for about 2.

>>889369
>>889370
Can't really change the time I go to the gym. I guess I'll stick with the current routine for two months and if I don't adapt to the "lift in the morning - judo in the evening" deal I'll shift to Bulgarian or something else low volume and high frequency.

Would like to see some gifs/webm/videos of standing submissions used in competition Judo.

>>889191
I managed to land that on scrubs on wrestling. dunno about serious wrestlers, but bjj guys are used to pull in the opposite direction if you are falling on your back while pulling.
also if you do it in wrestling it won't count as a takedown.

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>>889191
Can i ask you the rule set that you'll be using this, or is this just general grappling utility?


Anyway, its a viable move but like any rule of thumb it has its uses, To answer your question about making it a reliable counter, i say time invested in getting good at shot range defense is more viable (and i mean more then just sprawling)


Honestly defending a shot is easier in gi then it is no gi because the grips and the material are easier to muscle out or slow down the power of a shot into a stall, which is one of the reasons why the meta game of judo banned leg grabs, you eventually had boring stall outs where players shot their doubles and get stuck in turtle with no progression.

In gi, to help prevent/manage/defend against morote gari/blast doubles/shots you need to be mindful of your neck grip/collar grip.

A popular set up is shoving your neck down (a wrestler's snapdown) as you readjust your neck head to look up,your posture is straight giving the opponent the window of opportunity/kazushi to shoot on you.

Now to defend you need to control your opponent's gripping, trying to dominate the neck grip/shoulder grip and managing your own elbow grip (another popular set up for morote gari, blasting) is popping/lifting uke's elbow and doing a duck under motion to shoot.

Those are just broad stroke concepts to keep in mind.

Going back to the sutemi waza.its a good move again but you need to watch what >>890630
said, in a wrestling match this doesn't count as a score, but you open a scramble. I'll post the gif in a later post after this one. But once you sweep a good grappler scrambles up, you're out of the shot but they can get a quick reshot in on the scramble, worse case scenario they float over and land in side control.


If you're really dead set on developing this, from a judo perspective once they have your leg (and this is mainly from a single leg) is using your captured leg as a hook/make it stick

File: wrestling tomoe nage.gif (1MB, 500x260px) Image search: [Google]

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>>890757
cont from
similar to your inside trip series like ouchi or kouchi, besides that hook you need to control the head of uke's so honestly this is the scary part but for a brief moment your balance is reliant on their's and your leaning on them, mess up the timing you botch the counter and they complete their shot, The purpose of the belt grip honestly is to control uke's head/neck/posture.

I teach my own wrestler's this counter but i tell them to rely on their defensive series of either getting up hard and fast from the takedown (id post TJ Dillinshaw's last match, he showed great examples of fast get ups from takedowns in his match against Cruz), Spin Score, swtich, and sprawl. That defensive set has an easier learning curve to adapt then the use of sutemi waza.

I think ultimately learning all of them are good, but i feel you gotta diversify your takedown defense, and focus on something a tad more fundamental basic before pursing something a tad more complicated. But either way good luck

>>889386
>Bulgarian
>Low volume

kek. The main feature of Bulgarian training that distinguished it from the Soviet style from which it was based, was more volume than the Soviets' thought an athlete could handle and adapt too.

>>890757
>>890769
>I think ultimately learning all of them are good, but i feel you gotta diversify your takedown defense, and focus on something a tad more fundamental basic before pursing something a tad more complicated. But either way good luck
Thanks man. Fundamentals are always sound advice. I was just curious.

>>890839
On one hand yeah, on the other hand any sheiko workout would be harder than an entry bulgarian-type session. Or maybe it's just me. It's easier for me to do a semi-RM for a single and then do 3x3 or 3x2 backoff than 5x5, not to mention anything with more volume.

Okay so I'm gonna be in a full contact karate competition in may, and I've been training in judo for around 3 months.
Now I've been told that if I manage a foot sweep then I'll get a wazari and it'll count for something. Only issue is that I can't do grabs.
Anyone that can weigh in on how I can use ashi waza without gripping?

>>891243
Kyokushin rules? I always thought you were allowed to grip if you executed a sweep immediately?

If that's not the case, I'd be looking for my opponents stances, try baiting them to get a leg forward further than they'd want it, fight outside their stance to frustrate them and get them lunging and sweep the leg from there. Of course, with no upper body going into the throw, your foot movement will have to be perfect, gotta get that foot in the air before they can plant it on the mat.

>>891243

You should have asked this in the Karate thread..

But generally you either use the principle of DeAshiBarai (kicking the lifted leg right before the foot touches the ground) or you just kick at the back of the supporting leg when the other leg is raised. If you look at it closely, the moves at 2:10 - 2:40 are similar to a KuchikiTaochi in Judo. The only differences are you don't pick up the leg, instead you get it in mid air and you do more of a "pushing strike" instead of "gripping and pushing" beause of the rules..

(yeah, I know KuchikiTaoshi is not allowed in Judo tournaments)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQi3zbefLnc


BTW
Hajime Kazumi is very good at attacking the legs to bring the other guy down with kicks only. He constantly attacks the raised leg of his opponent from inside and outside:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgJpiak1wxw

>>891269

One more thing to the Last video:

Even though Karate is not Judo, the strategy behind what Kazumi is doing is pretty close to how you use foot techniques in Judo:
They are fast and kinda "non-comitting" (no big risk) so can spam them a lot to keep the other guy reacting (you destroy his game) and also to create openings for bigger attacks of you afterwards.

>>890769
This gif is terrible considering that guy just got immediately pinned

>>891389
That was the point, anon was showing how the throw can go wrong.

>>891252
Cheers mate. Any good resources YouTube that teach ashi waza and it's application well?
Just something I can watch and think about when I'm not at class with someone to help out

File: wrestling for MMA stand up takedown recovery TJ vs Cruz.webm (2MB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>890769
I mentioned earlier about TJ Dillashaw being a great example of creating hard stand ups/get up/cow boy ups for takedown defense series.

Even though he was taken down by Cruz at least 4 times, he was able to create a defense series and get the pop up (in wrestling's rule set a stand up from a takedown is rewarded with a point, and in a MMA context you're rewarded with not being stuck and getting ground and pound, or at least minimizing risk of GnP)

I'll post the webms first and then post the analysis a tad later.

>>892344
One thing I like with the prior webm was TJ's basing out and tripod, it would be "classic" wrestling, i could see some BJJ based grapplers poo pooing the choice in exposing his back, however he wanted to create a fast, explosive stand up and this is a viable choice, also TJ probably made the split sec decision because he literally felt Cruz's grip was a non threat to his neck (Cruz's grip was a over under grip, used to control and hold down, not to use as a launch system to submit)

After TJ is in the stand up, he uses several punches to the face to help break free from Cruz and then stand back to neutral, one lil tid bit i thought was good on Cruz, was the attempted ashi waza/foot sweep in the middle of the scramble to try to takedown or jar TJ back down to the mat.

File: wrestling for MMA shot reshot takedown recovery TJ vs Cruz.webm (3MB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>892344
From a wrestling point of view i feel this is a great example of high level, in your face shot based American folk style. One of the biggest things us high school coaches advocate to our athletes is chain wrestling and always reshooting, so if you're shot is stuff you just don't see there, but you re angle, readjust and reshoot. Both Cruz and TJ demonstrate this principle great in this scramble.

TJ becomes off balance with a fast hook, Cruz counters, with a level change and shots for a double.

TJ plays a great defense guard, posting and shoving his palms, hands and finger into Cruz's face to at least blunt some of the incoming GnP. Cruz adjust, stand up to launch a more powerful flurry, but TJ uses his knees to kick off.

Here's the part that i enjoy, after the kick off, TJ does a reshot, so in a span of 2 seconds he attempts a shot. Cruz sprawls hard and hits his own reshot. This is a series of 3 shots in a span of less then 10 secs.

TJ continues a good defensive series, gets into turtle and cowboys up.

File: wrestling for MMA scramble sub defense takedown recovery.webm (3MB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>892363
Cruz was able to land so many doubles on TJ because TJ was expecting a strike for a counter and not a takedown. If you watch this webm. TJ hits a low kick, Cruz swings his right hand like he was going to throw a hook, However its a fake out. TJ buys it and blocks high, Cruz's right hand instead of striking up toward the head reaches down for the legs
(this is from the first 2 secs of the webm)


TJ does the smart thing to negate GnP, with hard cross face, stiff arms, and pressure on Cruz's shoulder.

Cruz passes and gets TJ's neck, TJ is attempting another wrestler escape and belly outs to a turtle.

Cruz rushes a gator roll (dont want to call it an anaconda choke because from my POV, i see no figure 4 grip/arm in grip to get the choke, Cruz rushes the gripping and just does the hard roll i think to attempt a sweep)

Because of Cruz's rush TJ yanks his head out gets on top and then gets back to the feet.

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Judo, before it was neutered

Yes, this is by Kimura himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdrFg--suFE&list=PL979A888AF28579F3

I was talking about this with me coach yesterday. He said he showed the tape to his BJJ coach (red and black belt, trained under Helio, coached Rickson). His coach looked amazed and asked him to make a copy for him.

Fuck man, even some half-guard in there.

File: wrestling for MMA power double takedown recovery stand up.webm (2MB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>892388
This next webm is an example of why i love watching high level MMA and the fusion of 2 separate styles making new combination techniques, and looking at the last component of the combo a great example of traditional American wrestling.


Cruz opens up with a 1-2 combo and finishes the chain with power double.If you notice his boxing combo at first is slow and plodding (being rd 4, makes sense) to help compensate for his lost of speed and the onset of fatigue he sets up this place, he baits TJ into thinking they're entering into a striking exchange, the first volley is slow, notice then he picks up his foot work and enters in,TJ then attempts a counter strike, his posture is high, Cruz changes levels for his shot.

Now here's classic wrestling TJ sprawls on the shot Cruz doesn't stop, in fact he circles and turns the pipe the complete his show.

TJ does everything perfect to stay off the ground and get up, he control's Cruz's head and shoves it down, he grabs the ankle and he sprawls into stand up

File: wrestling for MMA single leg switch scramble wall.webm (2MB, 854x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>892420
Last break down, and i saw earlier some karate guys were talking about judo's variant of the knee block/ankle pick.

It's a good set up/variant and my dojo we teach it to my wrestlers and any guest MMA guys that come in. I'll break down and get resources in a future post.


Back to Cruz vs TJ, TJ lands his one only clean takedown from actually a judo variant of the knee block Kuchiki Taochi

In a MMA/judo/wrestling context, shoving your hand into uke's face is valid to create kuzushi, which you will observe TJ doing with a straight right, he then blocks the knee

He's able to force Cruz into an error during the scramble and give up his back, from TJ's forward momentum he charges Cruz, and plants him on his head/shoulder while getting a leg ride and Cruz on the fence.

Cruz hits a beautiful switch but TJ rides him and forces Cruz back into ref position/turtle

Cruz tripods and then gets trapped onto the wall.

>>892396
judo isn't neutered you need to train better.

>>892420
Good analysis. However, what planet do you live on where that is considered a 1-2?

Maybe a flail-flail? Certainly, his initial punch was with his rear hand, and then second punched vaguely resemble a hook.

Very interesting way he is grabbed the double with one hand around the waist (probably unintentional) and the other completely looped around.

Personally, all of those takedowns I wouldn't attribute to Cruz doing anything special: Dillashaw just foot worked his dumb ass into all of the doubles I remember seeing.

He's fucking sideways to Cruz.

>>892441
We've worked that in submission wrestling. Not sure where my coach got it from, probably shooto. but you push the far shoulder and grab the near leg.

Frankie Edgar is really good at it.

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>>892447
Really, so what would you call removing a bunch of moves and placing a bunch of restrictions on what you can and can't do to make the sport more consumer friendly?

I call it neutered.

File: shot reshot back suplex scramble counter.gif (2MB, 500x334px) Image search: [Google]

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>>892459
i'm a grappler through and through (judo nidan/2nd degree black and high school wrestling coach) so my striking is nil, however looking at and reading the intent, (like setting up takedowns) i can backward engineer the attempt or reasoin to the punch, perhaps i got the name of the combo wrong but the reason TJ react the way he did was because of the misdirection and diversion of Cruz's striking and being able to correctly read and time when to use his takedowns.


TJ's wrestling pedigree is legit so his defense are top notch. The whole point of my posts was to illustrate there are other venues of takedown defense besides sprawling and being able to do quick stand ups which TJ excels is one venue not talked about in MMA circles, and offers a new POV for people who enjoy MMA but might now train, or people who may enjoy grappling but not understand aspects of wrestling and the depth of the art's move list.

File: misha cirkunov knee block.webm (1MB, 638x344px) Image search: [Google]

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>>892467
I love watching Frankie Edgar and all the small guys hit that move. Karo Parisyan and Manny Gamburyan also landed it with a lot of frequency. Ronda attempted it a few times but i dont recall ever her hitting it cleanly

File: reverse seoi nage euro cup.gif (2MB, 360x202px) Image search: [Google]

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>>892471
And i call your POV ignorant and short sighted. Also navie. I've been around the sport and art since the 90s, and I've seen the sport's rules change and evolve a lot since then. There was a point where the triangle choke/sankaku jime was banned in sport did it prevent it from being taught for the art? No and in fact sankaku/triangles have blossomed numerous variants that are judo exclusive that help other aspects of grappling.


I think a lot of beginners mistake or look over that the entity of sport and art are separate from each other but are dependent at the same time. Just because a technique or aspect is "Banned" from sport doesn't mean it's banned from the art. In fact because of the ban it forces the evolution and looking over of new techniques into the style, keeping the art aspect fresh. In the last 5 years since the leg grab ban we have new variations of suplex/ura nage, the introduction of the mongol lift, the invention of the inverted seoi nage and the invention of the no leg grab kata gurama.

Now the old aspects are still there, are they show in sport, no but its not like an entire generation (2000s) era judoka are brain blanked out of prior knowledge. In fact that old guard is teaching the current gen of top tier players.


people bitch and moaning over meta level rules that are above their heads,We have beginners begging that they can't grab the leg when they can hardly take a fall or land a simple shoulder or hip throw, or other basic judo concepts Don't like the rules, fine still practice the art. find a venue that offers the rules you like (it worked for wrestling and BJJ, go do it there) and no one shits on wrestling for having its bans and creating 3 different styles from it. there are over 60+ labeled throws, and more then 30 unlabeled throws, factor in a dozen variants. Judo is far from neutered and has so much to offer, so much to evolve, and anyone that says that its neutered is talking bullshit. Plain and simple

File: choke knock out.webm (2MB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

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>>892496
my last post was to long and i had to cut off this last blurb,

Don't like the rules? Wait a few years. things come back in. the sport is always evolving. Again there was a point where triangle chokes were banned, put back in, there was a point where newaza had unlimited time, less time, more time, even less time, and now so-so time. If you really want to learn the art of judo you follow it through and through. Again I'm just a scrub nidan and wrestling coach but i followed the art and sport for awhile. and everything changes. I roll my eyes when people barely involved with the art decry the entire style because of a few minor rules when there are literally thousands of other things that out weight a dozen bans that are easily worked around.

>>892474
Don't worry about it bro, was just doing some shit posting. I also knew who you were.

However, my comment on TJ footworking himself into those takedowns stands. I believe there is a bit of a disconnect in his training between pure striking and striking for MMA. This is a problem I see a lot with people training with their "Striking coach" and not really having someone with the eye to put it all together. I suppose I am lucky in that my coach has a background in shooto.

I remember seeing TJ hop right in font Cruz with his feet together right into a double. It was embarassing.

Good stand ups though. I wouldn't say it isn't talked about, in fact lots of MMA guys have great stand ups compared to their submissions wrestling counter parts/ It's certainly something I need to work on, and am glad I did some wrestling classes with my coach to see some of the basics.

I tend to end up in turtle a lot and suck at getting out.

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>>892496
>>892510
...I was just shit posting.

>>889366
I like to lift before judo because it makes me weaker and worn out for practice, forcing me to rely on technique rather than strength.

Been in judo for three months, I'm a yellow belt.
What's a good technique to destabilize the opponent or make him come to me? I always walk to them and then they ippon-seoinage me.

>>892916
>Been in judo for three months, I'm a yellow belt.
How?You shouldn´t be.
>>892916
>What's a good technique to destabilize the opponent or make him come to me?
Every proper judo technique.Train proper uchikomi.
>I always walk to them and then they ippon-seoinage me.
make randoris were you just fokus on defence.
should helpf you

>>892603
Kek. Fatigue negatively effects your coordination and motor learning.

>>892983
Citation? Genuinely curious.

>>892931
Not him but what kind of time frame would each belt be normal to achieve

>>893116
Sports and weight training science is generally crap, there are no citations worth mentioning. Coordination is a function of strength and muscle memory, it's why the best performing athletes are almost never skinny dudes. fatigue will negatively affect your coordination, and therefore the way you learn a technique, it's why sparring comes last.

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>>893749
Not in Soviet Russia

>>893116
What do I carry around a bag of citations everywhere I go? Use fucking google or read a book yah lazy cunt. I just came here to shitpost.

>>893762
why shitpost?

>>893764
4chan

Which throws can I teach my budgie? I assume it could do, say, uchi mata grabbing the sleeve or lapel with its beak, same with o uchi gari?

>>894390
Is biting of an opponent's judogi permitted in competition?

>>892603
>>892983
>>893116
>>893749

The exact term is intramuscular coordination, typically accepted as one of the three main strength adaptations of training, alongside muscular "firing rate," and muscle recruitment.

Because the adaptation for these is all neurological, and all stems from the central nervous system, fatiguing endurance exercises do typically impact the ability to train and rely on these systems in the short term.

One typical approach to modern training is to train skills before physical training to increase effectiveness of learning the skills/ developing the coordination/ muscle memory.

Naturally an alternative method of training is to train 'under realistic condition' such as practising while fatigued, but this isn't as effective at learning the skills so much as allowing you to adjust to exerting extra effort for the best outcome under adverse conditions.

So it's good to train both ways in different circumstances, but it is best to do your physical training afterwards for the best improvement in your skills in the long term.

>>894395
I'm teaching it for self-defense and sport, unfortunately sanctioned judogis are too heavy to wear for my budgies.

Re-aggravated a back muscle today in the gym, some fuck stole a plate off the barbell I was deadlifting, and I didn't notice until the barbell started tilting. Fortunately it was light weight, but still enough to make the muscle hurt. It hurts only when I move my hips to the right/bend to the left.

Should I judo today?

Just figured out it's a muscle (quadratus lumborum) spasm, apparently. Shouldn't be too bad.

It's a good idea to sit and introspect about your judo every now and then, and I was just wondering, if you're completely honest with yourselves, what's the best and worst parts of your judo game?

>Best
Kumi kata
Transitioning from tachi to ne waza

>Worst
Ashi-waza. I can use it to set up my main throws, but in terms of actually ever throwing with them, I think I only ever land them on white belts.

>>896895
Ask yourself this.

Is it a good idea to stand up and run through life without thinking about yourself at all? Not being honest with yourself, not thinking about what the worst things about yourself are, not thinking about what the best things about yourself are?

>>896895
what throws do you transition to groundwork?

>>896953
Any big hip throw, o-goshi, harai goshi etc. Ura-nage, been drilling the Mongolian pick up recently, Tani-otoshi, O-soto gari. I've been in Judo for about 9 years now, and I'll soon be competing for my 2nd dan.

>>896904
That's the point of it, anon. What are your strengths and weaknesses?

>>897051
>Mongolian pick up
I am quite new what is this?
And why are you bad at Ashiwaza?
Aren´t they easer in terms of koordination?

>>897538
>I am quite new what is this?
No worries, anon. You can see them executed here
>>888537
>>888553

>And why are you bad at Ashiwaza?
Neglect mainly. I will use them as entries into bigger throws, but I've never really threw anyone in anger with them. I'll use ko-soto and throw with it often, but it's always as a big grip and control and I follow them to land on top of them, with a big hook, I'll do the same with o-uchi gari so it's more of a gake. But things like de ashi etc. I just never really hammered them home when I was getting my original basics down, I was much more concerned with turning in with 100% commitment and ashiwaza never felt particularly exciting. It's something I'm currently working on now.

>>896895
>best
katemi waza
>worst
atemi waza

>>898717
>atemi waza

Have you considered cross training? I don't do it myself personally anymore, but Judo can slip in nicely to learning some boxing.

>>898717
Isnt atemi waza punching? Judo is a grappling style

>>899380
As soon as my work schedule chills the fuck out I'll be going to stand-up practices at the local MMA school (there used to be a boxing club, but it got folded into the MMA school). My work schedule is literally killing me at this point, I have gotten way out of competition shape and very unhealthy (by my standards).

>>899803
Atemi waza is striking, which is trained in traditional judo. There is no need to practice atemi waza to win at sport judo, but to study the whole of judo, atemi waza cannot be ignored.

>>899924
have any videos or gifs of judo strikes? is there where judo chop meme came from?

>>899803

Historically Judo came from JuJitsu, which included stiking. Kano himself was a big fan of boxing and always thought of Judo as a "complete" fighting system, even though strikes got less and less important - striking is just not suited for the Judo principle of "mutual welfare"..

Nowadays Atemi is something that Dan guys train (for Katas). Think of it like the grappling of Karate: theoretically it's there, but it's more of a showcase.. ("look, you can also use your throws against guys who try to punch you"). No serious Judoka (competitive or not) would claim he has any clue about striking from his Judo training.

>Funfact: Kano said that Judka should keep standing upright instead of attacking in a crouching position (like wrestlers), because of the striking game.
>>899952

You should read "My Method of self defense" by Kawaishi, a 7th Dan Judoka. Many techniques look a lot like Karate, Aikido or even Escrima. You can download it for free (legal):

>http://judoinfo.com/pdf/MyMethodofSelfDefense.pdf


Some general techniques (from forms):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laEzlIVeV6M

File: Margvelashvili vs ramos pick up.webm (1MB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

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>>897538

File: Margvelashvili pick up.webm (934KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

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>>900639
>/asp/ - Alternative Sports & Wrestling

File: Margvelashvili pick up wazari.webm (1MB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

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>>900651

>>900639
Thanks.
Something about this throw looks unfair even if he is not.

>>901169
what do you mean by unfair?

>>900657
up

Thinking getting back into Judo

When i was a kid i got until orange but then i just stopped and completely forgot everything.
Do you think theres any problem to just go into a dojo and say "i've never done Judo"?

>>909678
nope, you could bring up that you had some as a kid but they'll just be treating you as an adult white belt.

>fight my ass off to get superior grip
>they break it and make my fingers bleed
>lose the grip fight
>all I can do is run away and stall or cheat by using two hands to break the grip
>or fight my ass to at least get my elbow inside

how do I break the grip of heavy opponents using only one hand
how do I stop them from breaking my grip

>>909678
I was in the same boat as you, said that I did some Judo as a kid, and coach decided I don't need to be taught how to fall. He did notice I couldn't fall worth shit eventually and dedicated a lesson to that specifically.

>>910549
>easily get superior grip
>can't throw because too lazy to spend 30 seconds on kuzushi

Why is judo so hard.

In my judo instruktion book kimura says tsurikomi goshi is one of the hardest to learn throws but defiently worth it.
Has someone expierence with tsurikomi goshi?

>>898717
>best
Ne-waza in general - well over 3 years into BJJ now.
>worst
Te-waza, excluding techniques grabbing the legs.

>>910549
>place open hand on inside of their elbow on the side they're controlling your collar
>keep said elbow away from you

Doesn't break their grip, but shuts down their offensive quite effectively while opening up various routes of attack for you, including but not limited to pick-up techniques, duck unders and back takes because it allows you to push up the elbow and open access to their hip or back.

Brown belt unlocked. :3 Now start doing shiai for points, starting next week.

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Bump.

Also, that goddamn impact when Koga's hip connects. Holy shit.

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Ok so i got acl and meniscus surgery at the end of October and now im walking, have good flexibility/strength. When can i at least start doing uchikomis?

>>913911
are you talking about that thing done in wrestling where you place both hands on the biceps of the opponent to set up leg attacks?
and how the fuck am I going to duck under while the guy controls by gi

>>922704
Ask your doctor, not a Bolivian bird-watching forum.

>>922861
You mean a two on one? In that case, no. You still use a regular kumi kata (right hand on collar, left on sleeve or vice versa) but instead of merely controlling the sleeve, you place that hand on the inside of their elbow. This allows you to push it up.

>>922704
Other than what >>922980 said, carefully try a few uchi komi. You'll know if you can handle them soon enough. Take it slow.

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Hey peeps. I'm sure you get this question every 20 posts but this general doesn't have an FAQ or anything, so please bear with me.

I'm considering taking up Judo and I'd just like to know how effective it really is for self defense. I just want to be able to defend against a guy that wants to punch my lights out and put him out of commission (that last part is most important to me). Also, how does it compare to Ju-Jutsu, which I could also take up?

>>923659
One throw without a proper breakfall will knock almost anyone unconscious. I'd pick judo over jiujutsu because jiujitsu focuses on ground game. You don't want to be on the ground in a fight. Especially if the opponent has friends.

>>923701
>jiujitsu focuses on ground game
BJJ focuses on ground game. JJJ does a lot of hard-to-learn wrist locks that got scrapped when judo was systemized.

Does anyone know any spells to help with ashiwaza?

>>923701
Don't know about knocking someone out with a single throw but imagine doing a drop seoi nage and aiming to land the guy's spine on one of those decorative metallic fences.

>>926270
>JJJ does a lot of hard-to-learn wrist locks that got scrapped when judo was systemized.

It sounds like you're thinking of aikido. JJJ has a lot of wristlocks but there's plenty of groundfighting submission shit. Where do you think BJJ came from?

BJJ is pretty much superior on the ground, it's taken me a long time to admit that, but it is. They take all the shit from JJJ that works and then make it way better. If you do BJJ over JJJ you'll get competent at groundfighting like twice as fast. 3 years of BJJ = like 5 years of JJJ.

The only caveat about BJJ is that it's been systematized for 1-on-1 sport combat whereas JJJ started as a battlefield art. In JJJ we were encouraged to use some wristlock or takedown to get someone to the ground, snap some body part ASAP, then return to a standing position. You're never staying in one place for more than a second or two. If you could avoid actually going to the ground with your opponent, all the better.

In BJJ, you're doing the same thing, but staying down there for as long as it takes to get the job done and hope you're just fighting one guy in a large cage.

Any BJJers learn shit for taking on multiple opponents in their curriculum? Never really taken BJJ so I could be wrong.

>>926323
BJJ comes from judo m8

>>926335

Judo comes from JJJ

>>926351
Your point?

>>926323
>BJJ is pretty much superior on the ground, it's taken me a long time to admit that, but it is
It´s what they train so they have to be.
have shit nage waza thoungh.
>>926351
>Where do you think BJJ came from?
Where do you think Aikido comes from?
from JJJ.

>>923659

It very effective. I have recieved and applied Judo in struggles with other people, and it workes very well. If you want to be sure, you can crosstrain in boxing to not get a punch in your face when appraoching someone (they go together very well). But Judo alone is already a very powerfull system.

>Also, how does it compare to Ju-Jutsu, which I could also take up?

Classical JuJutsu has the problem that they often don't do enough sparring or include awkward techniques. Could be great, could be shit. Personally I wouldn't take any risk, because Judo is "deadly enough" and has very good standards. Also you can compete or train everywhere in the world, if you want to.

If you meant BJJ, the system is also pretty neat and most schools are good. Personally I like the Judo system and culture more, but that's up to you.


>>926323

The differences are not that much about what both arts do, but how they do it and where the emphasis lies.


>>926335
>>926351

Both true.

Going to repeat my question, what is a good spell to use in ashiwaza?

Fireball?

>>926323
I know a guy who did JJJ in his off time from school. He was a blue belt at the time. Managed to get black after like 3 months after subbing one of the senior students kek

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IJF referee and coaching seminar 2016
day 1
possible proposal of return of leg grab as continuation moves/combo moves post 2016 olympics will be discussed at this forum held at the Kodokan

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>>928848
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLy8ggzTWpw


forgot the link

>>926569

That just sounds like a shitty school.

I subbed a black belt several times on my first day of Hwarangdo with 3 years of HS wrestling experience because he was the assistant teacher's kid and got over-promoted due to nepotism faggotry. I almost walked out right then and there but another BB salvaged the dojang's reputation by tapping me out in seconds.

Fuck I hate promotions due to time and merit, makes a teacher and school look shitty.

Looking to get into Judo in my city this place seems to be my best option what do you guys think its called Kawasaki Rendokan Judo Academy

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>>928848
>>928863
Aw yess, so at least there's a chance. Also, source? Don't want to believe it until I see it to avoid being utterly disappointed once again.

>>929614
Source is ijf head ref and ijf president of art

>>929676
Took some time, but found it myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kLy8ggzTWpw#t=7043

They're probably not going to allow full-on leg grabbing, but at least there's a chance of the rules being partially revised to allow it in some form. Would be very nice.

I came to practice in a damp gi and asked coach if I can train in it. He told me to go ahead as long as it's comfortable for me. Everything went fine but during last 10 minutes of training a contact lens fell outta my eye during randori. I picked it up after randori finished, told my coach about it, and said I'm going to leave now to try to salvage the lens.

This is the first time both damp gi and contact lens happened, and I don't remember any other fuckups on my part except one time when I started bleeding (you know when you sometimes skin your middle finger when you grab a dude's gi repeatedly) and didn't have band aids on me and asked if bleeding on others is bad.

Will my coach think I am weird/retarded now?
Should I care?
Hold me /judo general/.

Also, can someone clarify the "false attacks are not permitted" competition rule that I pulled off wikipedia?

Also, "deliberately avoiding gripping is not permitted" - does this mean I can't break opponent's grip?

>>926553
Depends on the ruleset, but I usually favor magic missile.

>>929964
>Should I care?
no

>>929369
Yeah he made it seem like no one there really sparred hard or knew what they were doing. It was run by a bunch of wannabe Bruce Lee types who spurned the possibility of cross training and were arrogant about his BJJ/Judo background. I don't get how people can be that prejudiced about this stuff.

>>930038
breaking grip is ok the rule is meant for people who run away intentionally dragging out the match.

>>930038
no it means you can just stall out the timer and run backwards or circle in striking range and not get a grip or allow your opponent to grip you. This rule and>>930006
which prevents or penalizes shitty drop seois that dont even turn or just people flopping onto their knees all prevent people from stalling and doing noting in the matches.

Pretty much both rules are anti stalling rules.

I'm having trouble keeping a straight back when doing throws. I know I'm supposed to keep my head straight and look forward but I always end up bending my back when doing any throw that requires it. I've recently started working on doing barbell squats but I'd like more suggestions.

>>933449
Practice uchi komi against a wall.

>>933449
act like an elevator that goes straight down before you throw

>>933449
Try engaging your core as you squat, you're probably bending your back to compensate for a lack of core strength when lifting.

If that is the case, try the plank for 2 minutes a day, and once a week plank until failure.

hey how much effort do you guys put into grip fighting in randori? Its pretty hard to throw someone when both of you have equal grip, but it seems kinda scumming in a training setting to going hard with the grip fighting. Do you guys find that there is a middle ground.

>>935834
We always treat randori as semi-cooperative free-flow practice and save any sort of going hard for shiai.

>>935928
cool ill keep that in mind. Just started judo this month and havnt really ipponed anyone without them sort of giving me the setup for the particular throw

>>935955
Just relax and let the judo happen, took me a while to learn that.

I'm completely naive to Judo so excuse my ignorance, why is all the gi pulling allowed?

>>936458
I'm completely naive to boxing so excuse my ignorance, why is all the punching allowed?

>>936458
That's a stupid question but the tl;dr is that judo is jacketed wrestling

First shiai today, scored four points.

First two were Yoko tomoe nage to juji-gatame, okuri-eri jime/classic Mario Sperri clock choke to counter botched throw, and again yoko tomoe nage to juji-gatame. Gave the 5th one away - was leading with yuko (and three shido) but just didn't have the strength to score anymore, and told the other guy to go for it to avoid both of us being sent off the mat without points.

My BJJ power level was definitely showing though, need to work hard on tachi-waza.

>>936720
Just a question for Judo people: Would any of you want to see rules implemented to see such throws penalized or not given full Ippon?

To me, it would be embarrassing to win by using a move letting my opponent come on top of me.

I think the Ippon rules are great, but too much obsession with Ippon at the costs of general principles of combat seem silly.

>>937157
you want people to get hrown on their back repeatedly until they lose instead of once? Why would you want to drag the match on like that for? Look at BJJ where everyone just sits on their ass and wait to pull guard, do you want judo to end up like that?

>>937157
No - because in general, in a combat situation, tori can adjust this kind throw to not have uke roll over him.

Breakfalls: how do I tell if I am doing them correctly?

If I don't get bruises, does this mean I am breakfalling right? I have no problems falling back or forward, but seoi nage absolutely wrecks my shit when I am the uke. Are you supposed to be able to completely negate any pain/unpleasantness with your breakfalls, or is some pain normal?

>>938893
how about your side break falls? also tori shouldnt be dropping you, but controlling the throw until you land, sort of holding you up so you fall on your side. Cant really break fall if your are just being dropped non your back.

>>938916
>how about side break falls
That's the thing, I don't know. When I do a side breakfall from seoi nage it's significantly more unpleasant than front/back breakfalls.

> Cant really break fall if your are just being dropped non your back
So breakfalls aren't supposed to protect me from all "damage" and if I feel some of the impact, it's normal?

>>938893
Can't say much without some footage here. Then again, when done outside of randori, a standard seoi nage shouldn't cause much discomfort.

Also, turn your back into a meatshield by doing pull-ups and deadlifts for years. I've accidentially done this to myself, and I've got to say it helps a lot when someone drops you flat on your back. Proper breakfalling is still preferable, but it allows me to shrug off serious falls when it isn't an option.

>>938953
if your doing a side breakfall like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrij_rw8MPo (though you should keep your arm on the ground), you should be mostly fine.

You will feel some impact, but should be able to takeplenty of falls without being hurt.

As for what tori is doing, a breakfall requires uke to be able to somewhat continually roll and hit the mat with their arm to reduce impact. If theyre dropping you with the seoi nage, of course you cant do that. Instead, tori should be like throwing you onto your side, which allows you to roll a bit more onto your back to reduce the impact. This is assisted by tori holding up uke's arm after the throw.

Not sure which problem your facing but hopefully it will give you an idea

>>939006
>>938996
I guess the issue is I am just being dropped on the floor, then.

>>862105
oooh. that's hot.

Can someone explain how scoring works in judo?

>>942809
It's kind of like all foreplay, no action.

BJJ is where all the good stuff is at.

>>942809
Current scores are
>yuko - ~advantage, any number of yuko is still lower than waza-ari
>waza-ari - half point, two equals ippon
>ippon - full point, ends the match

See http://judoinfo.com/rules1.htm for full explantion.

>>942811
While I agree on the current Judo rules being restrictive, it's by far the better spectator sport. I do both, and both are equally fun for me, but I find BJJ horribly boring to watch.

>>942858
how do penalties come into scoring?

>>942927
Current penalies are
>shido - small penalty for small foul, if scores are equal, judoka with fewer wins, and four shido equals hansuko make
>hansuko make - immediate disqualification for major foul

Warnings exist too, but do not influence scores directly.

Just started recently, but with randori, when I attack should it be full force or still somewhat reserved? It feels like using my weight and just muscling through the attack is just covering up bad technique, or should I be using them while trying to maintain good technique?

>>946207
You need/can use full force to bring your opponent out of balance, and you can use your full strength while maintaining good technique. Randori is for learning, it doesn't matter if you score an ippon there.

>>946267
cool thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding, cant wait to tear it up next training session

>>946267
>>946288
Can't say I completely agree. Randori still isn't shiai. For example, I've never popped someone's elbow with an armbar during randori, but it has happened twice during competition so far. Similarly, during randori, even if you unbalance and enter with full force, you try to make sure your partner lands right, whereas in a tournament you aim for the ippon and worry later. It still sucks bigtime when you hurt someone, but it happens.

>>947021
>It still sucks bigtime when you hurt someone, but it happens.
Yeah, if you're a shitbag with shit technique. Fuck you. Jita kyōei, bitch.

>>946207
Proper randori is relaxed, semi-cooperative free-flow practice to build proper technique. Accentuate proper technique with strength during shiai.

>>947021
Well yeah, I agree totally. I did say randori is for learning, not for trying to score an ippon.

But I mean, you are not going to unbalance someone without applying significant strength, at least as a beginner. And I can't see how you'll injure someone during kuzushi realistically.

>>947651
>implying
Now, have you considered that it was them that made the mistakes that led to the injuries? Because that's exactly what happened every time I've hurt someone during competition.
>one didn't tap to an armbar - elbow popped but turned out to be fine
>one tried to lift me up while in an armbar and extended his own arm
>one tried to stuff a fall by putting his hand, then fell on it himself
Similarly, the competition injuries I've sustained were all due to my own actions.

>>948375
Fair enough - but try using your weight combined with positioning for kuzushi as well.

>>948393
My coach says you are only responsibe for yourself during shiai.

>>948393
>Now, have you considered that it was them that made the mistakes that led to the injuries?
Fair enough, I was tired and this is 4chan so I was being a bit of an ass. Things like
>you aim for the ippon and worry later
had me a bit concerned, though.

Much love and stay safe, tovarishch.

>>948770
No worries, it came across harsher than I meant it. Let's say I aim for the ippon and hope the other guy doesn't get wrecked in the process. I hate it when my opponents get injured, and I've repeatedly considered no longer competing because people got hurt. Current situation doesn't really allow that for the next couple of years though.

>>948990
Sport judo players will fall improperly on purpose to hurt your score, putting themselves at risk of injury. Fuck those guys, their shit technique gets them hurt, not your throw.

I definitely feel bad when *I* fuck up and hurt someone, though: takes me a couple weeks at a minimum to stop being obnoxiously over-cautious on the mat.

Fucked up my shoulder as uke during a drop seoi nage. Hear a cracking sound and felt quite a bit of pain. During a break told our coach about it, he checked me and said it was a bruise and I can participate in randori if I want to.

During randori I couldn't do shit due to my shoulder (which was still hurting), and eventually I got thrown and landed on the same shoulder yet again. I went home after that.

I'm pretty confident it's just a bruise since my coach said so plus I can move my arm and shoulder in any direction, but it hurts like a motherfucker whenever I try to actually do something with my arm.

How do I heal this bruise? When can I expect it to heal up? Can I go and still do my heavy bench presses and weighted chinups tomorrow?

Related question: is it a viable tactic to do a throw to SPECIFICALLY injure an opponent during shiai? You are not aiming for an ippon or any kind of score, you just want your opponent to really hurt so that it will be easier to score an ippon later.

I realise this goes against whole spirit of judo and I certainly would not use it even if it meant an easy win in the Olympics (well maybe, if I really really needed the prize money to treat relative's cancer or somesuch), I am wondering if this is viable though, or if you will get penalized to hell and back or something.

Non-related question: is it possible/permitted to choke your opponent while standing?

>>950930
It is. Someone posted a gif before i think

>>951002
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KektKe4voIg
Nice, going to surprise people with this my next randori. Should be pretty fun for everyone, right?

>>951055
Just make sure they dont try to trip you with that grip. Cause it will be impossible to fall right an you probably break your arm

>>951063
It'd be pretty hard to be tripped when you're on one knee, no?

>>951087
Not exactly there are like a few sneaky trips like osoto that can be done from there

>>951108
I wish I knew more than nothing about judo.

5'8" guy here, broad shoulders
what size uniform do I get?

>>951151
There should be tables online. If in doubt, order a size bigger and shrink it with water.

i'm a young and flexible guy. i'm also moderately strong and i can take advantage of leverages. but the thing is that from what i know most trainers take in only young kids. and even if they don't, could i survive training with more advanced colleagues ?

i am also thinking about starting training in a martial art and i would choose between judo and a striking system ( probably kickboxing or boxing ).

what would you recommend

>>952590
>most trainers take in only young kids

If you're planning on being an olympian, I would say yeah, but you can just join a judo class and get gud for yourself. They'll teach you if you show up and pay money. If it's a good school, people with experience will help you and go easy in the beginning.

>choose between judo and a striking system ( probably kickboxing or boxing ).

Do both if you want to be a really complete fighter.

>>952590
I did muay thai and then started judo. They are both fun in their own ways and blend almost seamlessly. Punch into grab, clinch into throw.

That said I personally prefer judo, it's a better workout overall and lets you choose between crippling someone or gently subduing them if you're into street fighting or whatever.

Can I even train for Judo if my back and shoulder is fucked up?

>>954053
If you learn breakfalls properly and use them you probably won't get too damaged.

So I started judo about a year ago, but got injured pretty badly about 6 months ago and had to stop. I went to a few doctors and even a physical therapist and it helped but I still get bad shoulder pain occasionally.
I'm worried about starting judo back up, would it be that bad of an idea to try again?

>>950851
Rest. Some light mobility work will probably help too.

>>950930
Allowed, I do it occasionally.

>>955356
Try, but be careful. Doing any exercises for your shoulder?

>>955386
Yeah I have been the past six months, it keeps the daily pain away, but generally the pain still comes if I work out fairly hard.

Another question, would it be better to go to a mma gym that says they teach judo, or a place that mainly teaches Aiki Jujitsu yet they also have Judo classes apparently. The city I just moved to doesnt seem to have any sort of pure Judo classes.

>>864294

wow thats a great movie. Anyone else have any good movies like this one?

Anybody from Canada in the Toronto area that can recommend a dojo to me? I did as much research online about the dojos in my area as I could on our province's Judo organization and I am leaning towards Hayabusakan Judo because it seemed to actively participate in competitions and they have randori nights. I am a complete beginner and would be grateful for any tips with how I can identify whether a dojo is a McDojo

>>955386
Are there any books dealing specifically with judo injuries? I don't want to be a wuss but I also don't want to train through pain only to get crap like tendinitis or ACL separation.

And are there any books dealing with physics of judo? Seoi nage became so much easier when I figured out I simply need to squat under my opponent so that his center of gravity is approximately over the center of my feet.

>>864294
faggot gaijin

>>864312
Every color symbolizes something man. With that desire of recognition clearly you are not ready enough.

>>955400
Been there myself. Keep doing the rehab, and don't neglect mobility work. I've got injuries that will probably keep bothering me occasionally for the rest of my life, but I keep them in check with rehab and mobility. Also, my most severe shoulder injury was improved immensely by precise pressure point massage, Chinese style. I tend to have my reservations against some of that stuff and I know this is only anecdotal, but I regained almost painfree full range of montion in minutes after having struggled to lift my arm above 90° for months. Definitely worked for me.

As for the MMA/Aikijitsu: depends on the quality of the instruction/hours/price/other people training, etc. Go and find out!

>>956358
Only a few very old ones that I know of, but as I recall them, they mostly pertain to resuscitation and first aid rather than rehab. But rehab is rehab, and if you know where the problem lies, it's easy enough to look up some rehab work online. Try a few things, see which ones help, and stick to those. Also, it obviously never hurts to get some advice from qualified people to try out.

guise!

I bought a judo gi, the cuff of the sleeves covers my hands

I know judo rules are super uppity about your clothing, am I allowed to roll them up to the wrist or do I have to pay to get this shit tailored?

>>958433
it will shrink over time dont worry about it just wash it

is 27 to old to start judo?
I havent done any combat sport before, only few weeks of aikido, which sucked.
I only lift, if thats important.

>>966000

do it.

>>966161
dont do it

>>966000
I hate these "is it too late to start judo?" questions. I'm 27 and I've recently started. Go for it.

>>966213
I recently joined judo, all the guys there are old and fat. if they can do it so can I

shouldnt this thread be auto saging by now

>>966666
so it shall be done

>>956405
any judo book.
changing the opponents center of gravity is almost the entire premise of judo technique.

There was a judo club at one of the high schools I attended.

I was all about muh striking, and especially muh kicking back then.

I knew grappling, but I could've known more.

I just wanted to hang out with friends, do other stuff that I wont mention that could help identify me, or do drugs. It didn't occur to me that I could even join the Judo club.

I was sparring MMA with a friend one day, he was a lot stronger than I was, and intended to wrestle.

I managed to kick him a few times, but when I got into punching range to punch him, he eventually got a hold of my sleeves.

We were both in street clothes.

He tried to pull me left, I jumped and let him direct me left, and then landed back in my stance.
He tried to pull me right, and I jumped and let him direct me right, and then landed back in my stance.

He tried to push me, I jumped and let him direct me back, and then landed in my stance.
He tried to pull me back, and I stepped forward.

I try to break free of his grip on my jacket, but it won't budge.

We eventually go to the ground, and we're trying to pressure point each other, he tries occasionally to submit me, but to no avail.
I continue to try to pressure point him.
It gets nowhere, but I don't exactly remember how it ends. Maybe I just got tired and we agreed it was getting nowhere.

If only I knew to perform Tomoe Nage at the time, maybe things would've ended more memorably.

>>967224
>If only I knew to perform Tomoe Nage at the time, maybe things would've ended more memorably.

More like if only your friend knew how to string attacks and you'd be on your back.

I got an AC joint separation. Yay. Stage 1, from the looks of it.

What do I do now? Can I bench and squat? How do I rehab this shit?

>>967405
Got a second opinion and an X-ray, apparently now it's a partial shoulder dislocation. Anyone got experience rehabbing it/training through it?

>>967466
well, i had the same. There is no chance you can use your shoulder in the next two weeks. Best thing would be if your doc would just glue your arm with plaster to your body so everything goes back to normal, if not you should slowly try to move your arm around, help with your other hand. If you wont, your shoulder might become stiff and shit will need more time to get back to normal

My doc did a fault and thought it was only a partial dislocation. It was one year ago and to this day i sometimes feel pain while throwing and rolling. Make sure your doc knows what he's doing and be very careful, shoulder is a really sensitive joint

>>967405
and you probably wont be able to squat and bench the next two weeks

>>967760
>>967767
That's pretty shitty. I was able to do HSPUs with zero problems the day before yesterday, but yesterday I leaned on the bed with the injured hand and it hurt like fuck.

I'll get a second opinion from a better doc today, maybe take a photo of my x-ray to post on starting strength forums and ask Rip.

Why do you think plastering it to my body is good? I thought immobilisation is a shitty idea in this scenario?

When's too late to pick up Judo? I'm 20 and have no previous experience in any martial arts, though I'm in pretty good shape due to rowing for a couple of years, followed by a year or so of gym.

Since I've already seen pros of Judo in this thread, what are cons?

>>970312
well, immobilisation is good if something is torn apart and needs to grow back together. If thats the case and you move it too much it would mean it cant grow back together in a good way. My right shoulder lays lower in the joint than the other one since, it looks weird and sometims hurts, but besides that it still works. Maybe its because I am still young

But remember: I am just a random dude on the internet, not a doctor, and maybe i cant communicate properly with you because i am not a native english speaker. Just want you to watch yourself and be careful

>>971956
its never too late to start

a harder thing is to find a good dojo and to survive the first two years, because they may become boring as fuck since you dont seem to improve much. But that will change at some point, the more you train the sooner it comes. My point was at 4 years, but i only train once a week and no additional sports. If you reach that point you will never want to stop doing judo

>>972022
Useful, thanks.

>>971956

>Since I've already seen pros of Judo in this thread, what are cons?

There are no real "cons"..

But just like any other matial art Judo is suited for certain situations.

For example if you want to take MMA later, BJJ might be a better option (Judo will give you a great foundation though).

And obviously there's no striking in Judo.