QTDDTOT: Martial Arts

>>807612
What is the best sport to have a background in if one wanted to become a professional wrestler?

>>807615
can't remember the name but the same sport Kurt Angle did

Seemed to work very well for him

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This question is for the kickers.

When practice snap kicks, whether front or roundhouse, I feel pain behind my left knee, a little above my calf. I stretch and I still feel it sometimes. I rarely feel it in my right but today when I was following an exercise that involved front snaps, on the 3rd circuit, I felt pain behind both.

Is it a muscle or tendon issue? How did you prevent it?

>>807612
what is the least represented martial art in entertainment?

>>807635
Sports or media?

If sports, then CMA. Id love to see a wing chun or shaolin expert get in the cage.

If media, then maybe wrestling or grappling arts. It doesn't sell as much as someone getting tornado kicked in the chin.

>>807624
Your over extending your knee. Just pull it back a little earlier

>>807641
CMA guys tried to get in the cage and lost time and time again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc0Gt_M16lM

>>807642
Thanks man. For a minute I thought I didn't stretch enough or that the opposing muscle was too weak.
>>807644
>That slam.
Holy crap. Despite the weight difference I thought mr wing chun would have done a little better. Now Im afraid to see what woud happen if it was CMA vs a boxer who slugs.

>>807650
>Now Im afraid to see what woud happen if it was CMA vs a boxer who slugs

Gotcha covered senpai.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AKFNCIJdvA

>>807663
Mr CMA could barely take the jab at first then BANG, the right ends it. Was it me or was the boxer just playing around initially?

This brings up a question. Why do CMA do poorly in sports (or against others in general)? I know that some of them have been made for the battlefield but other MA like thai kickboxing was as well and then modified a bit for the ring. Hell karate was for war and does pretty good in the ring, and it was barely changed at that.

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Resources for my friends:

pluto.tv :free cable-esque streaming site that has 24/7 classic boxing and glory kickboxing fights.

http://watchwrestling.to/category/other-sports/ufc/ :Many ufc fights

http://espn.go.com/mma/schedule
http://www.mmafighting.com/schedule :Both are schedules for mma events.

Sportsneed used to have links to live events but is now gone.

Which MMA organizations do you think have good talent or which would you like to fight in?

>>807691
Communism killed CMA.

>>807691
>Why do CMA do poorly in sports (or against others in general)?
Generally speaking, it's the lack of sparring and the like.

Wing Chun straight punch or Western Boxing cross, it's how you train them that counts.

>>807650
>For a minute I thought I didn't stretch enough or that the opposing muscle was too weak.
It could also be that.

>>807759
I guess that proves "a punch is a punch."

At first I was wondering if it was cultural

>>807765
For some CMAs, it is cultural. The lack of sparring could be due to a cultural thing, such as pacifistic monks and the like.

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When first getting into a martial art, before you spar, which is more important to develop, technique or conditioning? I know you need both before sparring but starting off do you learn technique and your body will naturally get stronger, or do you work on your body first so that you can better perform the techniques?

>>807691
So, I'll answer this with an intelligent response that pertains directly to the question. I know this will be lost in the flow of wrasslin' threads, and be deleted into the archives, like so many tears in the rain, but here it goes.

To say that CMA "used to be good but isn't any more" is wrong. I believe the current situation is the same as it's ever been; it may have been even worse in pre-internet and television days.

There are no secrets to the human body; we all have two arms and two legs, and generally we all have weakspots in the same areas. Punch me in the temple and I take a nap. Kick me in the solar plexus and I'm going to collapse.

Now, there's only so many effective ways one can attack these weakspots effectively, while maintaining good structural and skeletal allignment in your own body.

This means that there are a finite number of functional techniques (FT).

The FT are filtered through cultural norms and standards and practices of the time.

Unfortunately, the chinese found a deep seated desire and need to combine everything they did with their spiritual practices. Additionally, the chinese did not see anything wrong with mixing something into their system just because it was popular at the time. Many people became "shaolin" over night. Many people claimed to have "life extending" techniques in their system.

Now, warriors in china (people who were focused more on FT) fought with arrows, spears, and the like. Weaponized combat was far more important in real wartime scenarios than barehanded (no war has ever been fought with bare hands in recorded history, in fact).

So, the individuals that focus on unarmed CMA are not warriors, not concerned with immediate effectiveness, focused more on "spiritual development" and other hocus pocus for life extension, and they are willing to throw anything into their system to increase its selling potential. That's why CMA is shit. It's always been shit. It'll always be shit.

>>807780
Interesting, thank you sir.

These threads aren't completely lost in this shitstorm of wwe shit (94 threads up now holy shit!). Good posts like this will keep us up.

>>807779
I'd say for a minimum, exercise once a week, then feel free to do technique the rest of the week.

>>807780
>It'll always be shit.
One day, perhaps, just maybe I'll learn some CMA and then structure and teach it in a way as to create fighters who could dominate in the UFC.

>>807788
>Good posts
Just because he says it's intelligent doesn't mean that he's right.

>>807832
True but a good post is one that aids dialogue and starts ideas. Some type of intelligent conversation that is not a derailment is a good post.

>>807691
>Why do CMA do poorly in sports (or against others in general)?

What others have said. Lack of sparring and a focus on upholding a tradition that has long lost its roots as an actual martial approach, instead focusing on the personal development aspects, be they religious or otherwise. It's not really limited to CMA though, there's countless karate styles that fall into the same trap and Aikido is just as bad or worse than anything chinese. Meanwhile you can find, for instance, effective grappling techniques detailed in old Shuai Jiao and Chin Na manuals, pretty much the same stuff you find in wrestling instruction.

You also have Sanda/Sanshou, which is essentially kickboxing with a greater emphasis on throws and sweeps from the clinch and it's just as valid as any form of full contact kickboxing. Trying to decry the entirety of a culture's martial pursuits off-hand is silly, even if they're particularly questionable in modern times thanks to misguided patriotic fervor and blind adherence to tradition that probably stopped being practical ages ago.

>>807788
>wwe shit (94 threads up now holy shit!)

so having multiple martial arts threads is okay, but multiple wrestling threads is bad? blow it out your ass

>>807780
I think you have allot of assumptions here

>To say that CMA "used to be good but isn't any more" is wrong. I believe the current situation is the same as it's ever been; it may have been even worse in pre-internet and television days.

On what basis do you conclude this? especially considering the situation in china was radically different pre 1900? We know by video reference and first hand accounts that martial arts can change in as little as one generation, and we have at least five or six generations separating us from the fall of the qing and the modernizing of china.

We know that the modernization of Japan and Okinawa brought radical changes to their marital arts, a wave of decline followed by a transformation into forms deemed suitable for physical education and mass instruction.

>Now, warriors in china (people who were focused more on FT) fought with arrows, spears, and the like. Weaponized combat was far more important in real wartime scenarios than barehanded (no war has ever been fought with bare hands in recorded history, in fact).

There was no warrior class in China, so all marital arts were essentially civilian arts. That said all premodern Chinese systems I ever read of involved the use of weapons such as spears and swords in addition to their unarmed techniques.

Why is striking so much more superior than grappling at the best of the best level?

>>807779
>When first getting into a martial art, before you spar, which is more important to develop, technique or conditioning?
conditioning

its simply too much of an obstacle if you gas out after 1 minute of sparring. you need that cardio bruh

>>808365
Basically

1) The rules basically favor striking now. If you do no rounds, no standups from stalling, you'd see a lot more grappling domination.

2) It's the least risk technique. This is why you see it most at the worst of the best level. You watch some preliminary UFC bouts and they're almost all incredibly shitty kickboxing fights.

Basically, grappling forces you to commit, and produces all or nothing results. It's not that striking is so much more superior, it's that at the level of the best of the best, you're seeing extremely proficient grapplers who are unlikely to be tapped quickly, especially within the confines of the round limit.

With the best of the best, you don't get people who take a lot of risks, and so you have a favoritism for striking.

Question: is it right to be called a martial artist if you do a single martial art? Or can you only be classed as one by doing more than one or multiple martial arts?

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>>807644

Yeah, there's been a fair number of CMA stylists who've tried MMA. Nearly all got wrecked. Sparring matters.

>>807779

I would definitely say conditioning. The guy getting rekt in sparring is still learning more and gaining more experience than the guy wheezing on his knees in the corner.

That being said, training sessions are for technique development and sparring. You should be working on fitness on your own time. Lifting for strength, HIIT for cardio/muscular endurance. I find that kettlebell circuits are great for building my randori gas tank.

>>808365
basically this >>808432
UFC judges being >50% boxing officials doesnt help either, and its a tired line but no one gets put in a clinch/neutral grappling position if there is stalling(like there always is) in the the striking centric fights, while even 2 grapplers will routinely get stood up for even a moment of perceived inactivity while grappling

Additionally I think striking just sells better, the raving armchair tough guy masses can understand basic striking combos and love seeing people get hit in the head

>>808236
At least martial arts are a participation sports and on topic as "alternative sports", unlike wwe mandrama

>>808236
>first 3 pages are majority tv drama
>durr hurrr but theres 3 martial arts threads now!
fuck off

>>807780
>>808235

I'll bite. Hung Gar fag here. I'm no expert, started quite recently, although I have been trying out different things for the past years.

Let's just assume that the "Martial Art" term is just a buzzword for a while. (it has in fact been invented in England as a marketing term to "sell" Karate). Let's just assume that the MA term puts toghether things that are very different one form the other and barely overlap besides the fighting.

Think the differences between Boxing and Muay Thai and Capoeira. They have extremely different techniques, cultural backgrounds, ways of training and applications. And while Boxe is basically made for the ring, it's a big part of Muay Thai, and there's no such thing in Capoeira. The cultural origins and aspects are very important in a Capoeira, while they are rather secondary in MT, and practically absent in Boxe.
Same differences and distinctions go for different styles of Karate, Taekwondo, etc etc etc

So "Martial Arts", I find it to be a misleading term.

Also, the tendency to find the "best" martial art is quite misleading. Best in what? Best for self defense? Best for being a thug? Best for health? Best it a ring? For which ruleset?

>>808466
That being said the board is obviously sekwed towards a very specific ruleset/competition: UFC. Don't get me wrong, I'm not into bloodsports, but I reckon that UFC is the "best" of mixed MAs copetitions/rulesets.

Sparring obviously makes a lot of sense. You can directly compare two martial artists and decide which is a better fighter. Indirectly you can compare two martial arts in a series of competitions and decide which is better for fighting.

I find my next statement to be so basic/down to earth, that anyone doing an MA for a month should know it: Martial arts are so much more than fighting.
Each MA adds some different things to the fighting, health, culture, tradition, fun, etc.

CMAs, and the different styles of Kung Fu have *always* had much more to them than fighting. It's a chineese thing: they always tend to do things in a way that we could call "holistic". For example while the western medicine tried to divide things into ever smaller pieces (and is now putting them all back together), chineese medicine has always tended to consider the whole. (Not saying any approach is better, just saying there are different conceptions). And from the begginings kung fu has never been only about fighting, but also health, self betterment, pushing the limits, meditation, etc. It's part of it. In my Hunggar we have some excercises that are *deribelately* ineffective at striking; they're for conditioning some difficult muscles, rom and stuff.

>>808467
So now I'm closing in to the point
>...CMA is shit. It's always been shit. It'll always be shit.
Yes. CMAs are less effective at fighting than other MAs that emphasize fighting and sparring. Most probably I'm won't be able to beat a kickboxer that has trained as long as I have trained kung fu. Neither on the ring nor in a street fight.
Bare in mind that kugn fu does competion and fighting, just not as much (check Sanda/Sanshou or Lei Tai (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lei_tai, or check the Triad, the MA aspect was not just added in, it was costitutive; also there are schools that do sparring weekly), and that's because it's broader in scope.

Personally speaking, I like Hunggar not in spite of this. I chose hunggar *because* of this. It's what suits me best. I'm not in it for self-defence, I had a course for that. I'm not in it for the the competitions, I've had my (small) part of competing (back when I did Judo, not a fan of japaneese arts, tho). As a person I have a whole bunch of interests, and Hunggar fits great for unifying some of them in one training.
It obviously needn't (nor shouldn't) fit yours. If competition is your thing, do that. If you're old, do some Tai Chi. If you're looking for firends do Aikido or Capoeira.

What I'm saying is there's no one size fits all. "Which MA is best?" is a question that just doesn't make sense, if you don't ask "best for what?".

But just face it, CMAs won't change just because you want it. Just because it isn't good for UFC or some other ruleset, or just because it isn't as good at fighting as an art that focuses only at fighting. It's because it's something different (and for me, something more). We can discuss it all we want on the internets, but the CMAs will continue for centuries to be what they are, an everchanging holistic art with incredible variety.

>>808453
>participation sports
if you want to talk about sports you'd be better off on /sp/. hell judo is an actual olympic event, why would it be on the same board as scripted drama and fake gun discussion? one of these things is not like the other.

>>808456
i'm just saying maybe you wouldn't be so pissy if you didn't have a nonsensical double standard.

>>808466
>>808467
>>808469
You make a ton of assumptions, say some stupid shit and ignore that the second post you're replying to presents Shuai Jiao, Quin Na and Sanshou in a positive light.

"Martial arts" isn't a buzzword, martial arts at their core are supposed to teach you how to fight, it's their lone unifying aspect and the very term martial means they're related to combat, suited for a warrior. The difference between Boxing, Muay Thai and Capoeira is that Capo is primarily trained as a dance now, much like how many CMA schools emphasize flowery forms. There's no such thing as a "best" martial art, especially in this age of crosstraining, but there is a focus in finding their functional aspects and Muay Thai and Boxing produce consistent results. Also, MT is a huge part of Thai culture and their national sport, saying its cultural aspects are secondary is ridiculous, it just happens to also have efficient, functional training.

You assume people are skewed towards the UFC when it's really only the premier MMA org, and you will find many who decry their unified rules as favoring grapplers by scoring takedowns so highly and not allowing things such as kneeing a grounded opponent in the head, which made takedowns riskier in Pride FC. Martial arts can be more than fighting but by their very name fighting should be pretty much their core, and if you don't spar and have no idea of how to actually fight you're not really learning anything martial. You're just learning how to do patterns.

It's fine if you're interested in the personal development stuff, but don't try to pass what you do as a martial art if it doesn't teach you how to fight. People would probably be less harsh on CMA and their lack of results in fighting if there weren't so very many adherents that insist that their blind following of ancient traditions long proved wrong make them fantastic fighters and that their styles are too deadly for the cage. Which you didn't do so points there I guess.

>>808285
My basis for #1 is the ability to record and retain information. Even if someone developed some real legit stuff, it was very hard to spread it around.

As for other sources, it's mostly based on old stories like the quanfa beiying and other classics.

As for point 2:
I didn't mean there was a warrior class, but what do you call people that fight wars? would you prefer the term soldier? either way it's just semantics.

also, no. weaponized combat, bow shooting, spear fighting (fighting to kill) was not something civilians did on a day to day basis (despite what the movies would tell you).

As for all chinese systems having weapons, that is true, but a lot of them were invented in a weird order. Shaolin was the big name in fighting for a while, and their staff techniques were what they were known for. then they delved really hard into mysticism and invented their own open hand techniques based on buddhist thought and the like.

the unarmed martial arts included claims of prolonging your life or making you immortal. so there was a huge rise in unarmed martial arts. but the problem is these were not based in "what works and what doesnt", but mysticism. Then these same people, who were using these mystical martial arts, added weapons into their system based on the same principles of their unarmed styles (to compete with other schools, and also with added mysticism).

a lot of this can be found in books on the history of chinese cma, but you have to pay close attention. you'll read a description about the shaolin and their staff prowess with no mention of their empty hand, then a hundred years later read about how their empty hand is known far and wide and staff stuff goes on the decline.

there were also books and pamphlets that bemoaned the fact the trends in martial arts in those times were going away from battlefield weapon training to empty hand. there was then a long period of empty hand, then weapons came back, but were more mystical than practical.

>>808466
im the first anon you are responding to. i don't really care about semantics. call it ma or call it whatever you want.

but to imply that the best martial art isn't about fighting is silly anon. if it's best for health, then its conditioning or exercise. if it's for spiritual fulfillment, its philosophy. if its for fighting, its a martial art.

any martial art that focuses on anything other than fighting is just mixing in other elements to compensate. if i study boxing and stoicism, does that mean i invented a martial art because i mixed fighting and philosophy? if i take up slap fighting, platonic ideals, and jump roping, does that mean i made a new martial art because i combined good health, fighting techs (regardless of how effective), and philosophy?

no, it cannot be. you can have effective martial arts without philosophy. you can have martial arts separate from conditioning. but if you take the fighting technique out of something (i.e., tai chi), it becomes just a philosophy (taoism). Whereas you can take the philosophy out of tai chi, and just focus on fighting techniques (what most "tai chi" kickboxers look like).

At the end of the day, the defining characteristic of a martial art is its fighting ability. many sports teach discipline. many schools of thought teach philosophy. many crossfit gyms teach conditioning. but only martial arts teach fighting.

also your last paragraph of post 2 is exactly what i was talking about. its huckster medicine, mysticism, or often times pure bullshit mixed in with fighting techniques; they did it as a selling point to other chinese. imagine i was going to teach you boxing. then imagine the guy across the street said he guaranteed he could teach you boxing, AND you'd get to live forever. assuming you believed him, why WOULDN'T you go with the guy across the street? and then as the guy offering just boxing, to even compete in the business world, you would HAVE to add the bullshit into your system.

>>808469
once you accept martial arts = fighting, as i demonstrated in my other post, the fact that the kickboxer will win with equal training time as your hung gar, means hung gar is a less effective martial art.

if you like all the dressing around it, the ceremony, clothes, philosophy, whatever, that's fine. i'm not saying its a crime to do a less effective martial art. but i dont understand why youre willing to admit that your style doesnt teach you how to fight as well as another, but arent willing to admit that the other is a better martial art. you should say "kickboxing is a better martial art, but hung gar is a better philosophical system," or something like that. which would be true, as hung gar has philosophy and spirtuality and makes you feel fulfilled and cool and whatever, whereas kickboxing doesnt.

the mister miyagi/david carradine mindset of "i may lose but i am spiritually superior so i am on equal footing if not greater footing"is a cancer to martial arts.

also no, cmas will continue to be whatever sells, because the chinese are strangely practical in some respects. ironically you brought up sanda, which was invented immediately after a large number of kung fu practicioners lost to a muay thai challenge. so they copied muay thai, changed the rules to exploit the rules of muay thai as well, and we got sanda. the chinese will continue to dictate what a CMA is as they have since CMAs first started, which will be whatever is most profitable in the market. mean while stuff like mma will continue to look for what is most effective in a fight, as opposed to what is most commercially profitable.

What do you guys think of systems that use both forms and sparring? I think forms can be really useful for drilling technique and conditioning your body, but sparring is where you truly test your skill and develop as a fighter.

>>808607
judo does that.

>>808610
That's cool. What are the forms in judo like?

>>808441
Not him but I'm also interested in a good answer

>>808493
It's not a double standard. It's wanting more variety. Let's take /s/ for example, you go there to see some babe's and have a wank. You like to mix up what you stare at while you stroke like any normal guy but for a long stretch of time you see nothing but ass threads. Black ass, white ass, big ass, small ass, autistic drama ass, etc. Now you being a beast man, this isn't too much of an issue, right? People have their preferences but if /s/ is 90% ass threads which don't get your dick as hard as a pair of perky tits; while at the same time, there are only like 3 tit threads, you get quite frustrated at the situation. You just want to bust all kinds of nuts but first you have to wade through tons of ass threads that have the same pics, same discussion, or are just shitposts. Shit gets old and annoying.

>>808441
>>808761
I'm not even sure how one can come to wonder whether they're martial artists for only practicing one. There's nothing wrong with sticking to one thing, not everyone cares for or has the drive to engage in cross-training. I'm a fan of cross-training, I feel it helps broaden horizons, but doing just one style doesn't make you less of a martial artist than doing 3 or 4. If anything, I'd say it's more what you train in and how rather than how many. If you train seriously and whatever it is you does full contact sparring and actually teaches you how to fight, I'd say you're a martial artist. Maybe a more limited one, but still.

>>808633
One person plays the tori (thrower) and his partner will be the uke (receiver). Usually the uke will pretend to throw a punch or grab tori and then the tori does a technique to defend himself.

However, in the two years I've practiced judo I can count the number of times I've actually practiced kata on my hands. It's usually not a big focus unless you're testing for your black belt.

I know that each MA has some merit and that it mainly falls on the practitioner rather than art, but in your opinion, which MA has the least to offer the student in a general aspect? Dim Mak doesnt count since its fake.

>>808925
I'm guessing you mean on the martial aspects of it, in which case Aikido hands down, it's been the laughingstock of the MMA community for a while now. CMA have their own many issues and a huge number of detractors with perfectly valid reasons to be skeptical about them but can still be linked to credible, effective practices like Shuai Jiao and Sanshou. Aikido is an already outdated system heavily filtered through spiritual practices which further drain it of any effective fighting methods.

Most schools do not do any sort of sparring or pressure testing of techniques and they all train in these pre-arranged patterns where the attacker throws a highly telegraphed pantomime of an attack at half speed and then takes a dive for the defender in order for a throw to look spectacular. What few organizations do encourage randori, such as Shodokan Aikido, wind up looking like kinda sloppy Judo. Some of the barest concepts and mechanics are sound, but they're not many and can already be found in other, more credible grappling systems.

That its creator Morihei Ueshiba had such a similar history to Judo's founder Jigoro Kano in studying multiple forms of traditional japanese grappling to create his own system, along with the fact that he actually studied Judo, only for Aikido to be what it is lends some credence to the one poster saying that the mentality that overly emphasizes philosophy and spiritualism over actual performance is a cancer to martial arts as a whole.

>>808925
That's a pretty obvious flamebate

For many reasons I do not wish to say I am unable to go to a dojo. What are the some online resources I can use to "self train"? The school or tradition doesn't matter, I'm a total beginner so I'm looking for general practices and drills that will be applicable across the entire field when I get the chance to find a dojo and specialize/

>>809037
>computer
>video camera
>mirror
>punching bag (optional, but highly recommended)

Learn:
>jab
>cross
>front snap kick

- obtain good resources
- be observant
- use good resources
- fix what you do wrong

Applying the techniques gets a little trickier by yourself, but since you can go to a school, you don't need to worry about that.

If I have skinny wrists does that mean that I'll never be able to be a good striker and punch effectively?

How fucked am I?

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>>809072
then learn how to use your bony ass elbows and knees.Skinny wrist means you probably have real bony knees and elbows.

>>809079
is that abnormal to have bony elbows and knees? you're right that i do have them

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>>809079
boney

>>809079
someone said that skinny wrists don't actually affect punching power it just makes you more susceptible to injury?

is this true?

>>809090
yes, it's true. having skinny wrists simply means you've not developed them. as a result they are just as prone to injury as any other section of your body that gets ignored.

however, there is also a point at which skinny wrists will affect punching power. that being the point where the wrist cannot support the fist (we're talking muscular distrophy levels of weak here).
if you punch an object/person and it's your wrist that bends, then it's going to hurt (a lot). this is why one should develop stronger wrists.

I would say try doing bare knuckle push-ups if you're looking for an exercise that will strengthen the wrists. these have the added benefit of showing you what form your hand and forearm should take when striking.

>>809119
thanks senpai

>>809119
>that gets ignored

You can't train the wrist tho only forearms

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>>809126
>You can't train the wrist tho only forearms
Tendons can be weak, too.

I'll be starting BJJ in a couple of months once an injury heals. Besides takedowns, do all schools teach some form of judo-esque throws as well or does it vary?
>>807615
Martial arts and wrestling will translate well, especially if you've already learned how to bump. However even people with no sporting background can become great, because 90% it's about conditioning and endurance. Being strong is also very helpful.

>>809156
depends on the school some schools will have more of a wrestling focus on take downs, some will have judo, some will have none. Depends on the instructors' preferences.

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>>807663
Wow this chink sucks
he clearly doesn't spar enough
afraid of the punch, always leaning back
what's the point of structure if you break it yourself out of fear
little faggot doesn't do any chark jong he just slaps at the opponent, doesn't move forwards and is pushing from his heels instead of walking forwards.

people like this give a bad rep to us

>inb4 hurrdurr no true s̶c̶o̶t̶s̶m̶a̶n̶ chinaman fallacy

breddy bad desu

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>>808779
under rated post

accept my silent moral support

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>>809072
Just strengthen your wrists man
Play some fucking tennis or badminton regularly
do knuckle pushups erry day

problemo solved

>>807644
I've seen this so many times but only now realized the commentators sound like Johnny Carson and Regis Philban

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This has probably been asked before (if so I havent seen it) but is it too late to work towards becoming a pro fighter, kickboxing or mma, if you're 24 and have never trained in a real gym/dojo? So far I've read articles that say yes or no but no definitive answers.

>>809750
if you dream of being an UFC champ or K1 Grand Prix winner you're shit out of luck unless you're some sort of prodigy and pick up a strong as fuck game in like a year or two. Nothing says you can't do low level matches at local small time promotions along with other work but you're probably fucked as far as the real big time goes, which means making it a legitimate career path where you focus solely on it and have a future in it shouldn't be seen as a realistic option.

>>808441
>>808761
>>808806
Are you a television enthusiast if you only watch Breaking Bad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Eh3kRtpqU

>>807663

>let's just ignore that the boxer is twice the size of the Wing Chun guy
>every CMA is the same

Stay classy, /asp/..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKIJhrugPm0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-ybDw66YS0


>>808607
>>808610

Judo is a bad example (Judo forms are very different form actual fighting and pretty much a "demonstration reel"), but Karate is more like that. You pratice your punches and kicks with increasing speed and power and it definately has it's benefits for actual fighting. Of your don't do everything you learn there, but some things, yes.

>>810017
> (Judo forms are very different form actual fighting and pretty much a "demonstration reel")

This is true, but it certainly was not the intent at the time Kano created them. what >>808607
said is pretty close to the original intent

>>810023

I don't know, let's not forget that alive sparring was one of the most important changes from "Oldschool JiuJitsu" to Judo. By training only "safe techniques" in an aliveness manner the Judoka were able to dominate all the other schools where "more dangerous techniques" were practiced in a non alive menner..

Of course it's nice to see movements in more elegance and "pureness" and it's incredibly hard to perform a perfect Kata. But I'm not sure if Katas hepl you with actual fighting, there are many brilliant fighters out there that don't have a "perfect" form (technique wise). Maybe it's more of a philosophical question..

The only point Kata definately have is that they allow you to train certain self defense techniques - if I'm not mistaken this is 3rd Dan stuff or something like that..

>>807612

Has the evolution of BJJ gone too far?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQmTVo21oGI

>>810554
>I don't know, let's not forget that alive sparring was one of the most important changes from "Oldschool JiuJitsu" to Judo

Thats actually a myth. Both of the jujutsu schools Kano trained in had sparring, it was incredibly common among jujutsu styles at the time. Judo just refined the rules.

Nor were kata in those old schools or judo meant to be simple displays of elegance or perfect form.

http://judoinfo.com/kata.htm

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>>810569
It hasn't gone far enough.
>not incorporating Capoeira

>>810615

>Thats actually a myth. Both of the jujutsu schools Kano trained in had sparring, it was incredibly common among jujutsu styles at the time. Judo just refined the rules.

I'd say it's more than just "refining the rules", it's a crucial point.

The Kodokan won the 1886 Tokyo Metropolitan Police Judo vs jujutsu tournament exactly because of it's better training approach, to leave out techniques you can't train at 100% speed and power. That's one of the main pillars Judo stands on, that we DON'T use dangerous techniques because they wouldn't be allowed in randori, which means they can't be trained in an alive setting and are therefore more or less useless in the long run.

>Nor were kata in those old schools or judo meant to be simple displays of elegance or perfect form.

I didn't say that they were. As I said before, there's indeed stuff like "weapon fighting" or "self defense techniques" that can only be trained in Kata. Also I dislike that you say "simple displays", because it's not simple, it's very difficult and it's art.

But from a pure "fighting point of view", Kata are not an important part and never were. Even more useful Kata like the "Hirano Kata" are rather meant as displays of understanding, simplicity and beauty (or honour for certain people) rather than a lesson in fighting applications.

>>810669
>The Kodokan won the 1886 Tokyo Metropolitan Police Judo vs jujutsu tournament exactly because of it's better training approach

It was not so much a tournament as a competition between the Kodokan and one branch of yoshin ryu in tokyo. There are also contradictory accounts of the match written long after the fact, we have no record of it besides recollections of judoka who were there.

Nor were judo's early victories a total washout, as there are accounts of various schools being early judo challengers.

>lso I dislike that you say "simple displays", because it's not simple, it's very difficult and it's art.

your absolutely right that judo kata today are as you describe, but that is not their origin.I use the term "simple displays" because they were not meant to be performances of beauty or even ideal form under normal circumstances. They were, like in the jujutsu schools that preceded them, considered a vital component of training and were considered by kano and his predecessors to be practical.

>>810691
beating not being, sorry

>>810691

>we have no record of it besides recollections of judoka who were there

So what? It was 130 years ago and we have the fact that this match resulted in the decision to establish Judo as the new fighting system for the Tokio Police.

We have statements that the record was that the Kodokan was winning 12 out of 15 matches against various JuJitsu guys - and we don't have any contradicting statement, that this shouldn't be the absolute truth. Why do you think respected martial artists like Shiro Saigo or Kano Jigoro should lie in favour of theirs styles? That's beneath them.

Anyway, we'll probably never know for sure.

>They were, like in the jujutsu schools that preceded them, considered a vital component of training and were considered by kano and his predecessors to be practical.

Can you back up this claim?
Of course Kano found Kata usefull, that's why he included them in his syllabus. But Kano also stated that Shiai and actual fighting is not the most important part in Judo, because it's first and foremost a way of making people better humans (i.e. the "Jita Kyoei" thought).

So my only statement concernig this matter was that I think that Kata were never meant to make you a better fighter. They were meant to make you a better Judoka, sure, but I have a hard time believing that somewhere out there would have thought kata training was suited for making him a better fighter, even 130 years ago..

>>808531

>>808564
>>808569

Hey friends, I'm back from my weekend, great to have a conversation flowing.

>ironically you brought up sanda, which was invented immediately after a large number of kung fu practicioners lost to a muay thai challenge
Sanda is not a recent concept. Sparring and fighting has always been a part of CMA training. Everyone had their own "style" and they would make encounters and competitions. The rules varied between competitions (being substantially similar to kickboxing most of the time)
Nowadays "Sanda" is a ruleset (somewhat like UTC) (Sanshou being the martial art put toghether specifically to compete in Sanda), and you can choose to train your style and compete in Sanda, or choose to train for competition directly.
Check out the lei tai link from the other post, it's a cool story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lei_tai
The practice of fighting has been effectively banned for two generations or so by the Comunist Party, until some 30-40 years ago, that's when sanda got a new life. I suppose part of the reason for banning was the link between kung fu and political opposition and organized crime.

tl;dr: fighting has always been a part of CMAs, Sanda nowadays in a ruleset, any kung fu practitioner can compete in sanda using his style.

Also, there are kung fu schools that do sparring, both in China and elsewhere. I do recognize that the mcdojo factor is quite high, yo. I checked some 15 schools before deciding where to settle, and yeah.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say, and what I'm enjoying, is that CMAs are a form of art. It's the "art" part of "martial arts". If you take the "art" out of it you're left with a "martial technique" or a "ring sport", just like the difference between when doing training kung fu and training for a sanda competition. I personally struggle to find Kickboxing an art, beyond falling in the umbrella term martial arts.

>>813929

Oh, and by saying that, training time being equal, a kickboxe practitioner will beat a kung fu pratitioner, I'm not saying that kung fu is useless. The kung fu person will still be able to hold his own in a fight/self-defense situation (as long as you get alive training and sparring, obviously).

How was training today?

>>810628

>who is cobrinha

>>813929
i disagree that it has always been a part of cma training. a lot of the historical records indicate that most individuals didnt even think of their empty handed "martial arts" as anything beyond internal alchemy. also, watch this video. this is the fight of someone who has never fought before. these are two "masters."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FsZyPjsjTA

i agree that sanda is a ruleset, but isnt it funny how all kung fu practicioners in sanda end up looking like theyve been training kickboxing, and if you go to their gym the sanda competitors train like kickboxers, and not like the other guys in the gym doing traditional exercises?

it seems like you have a very starry eyed view of the cma's. ive lived in china, ive trained at the shaolin temple (a commercial joke), i know how it is over there. its awful.

people always say that less efficient martial arts focus more on the "art" than the "martial" and that it somehow justifies it, like its a balancing act on some scales that if you remove from the martial, it will weigh equally if you put it into the art.

however, you can have artistic movements without combat. look at interpretive dance, or really just the entirety of dancing. a ballerina has just as much skill, effort, and determination as any martial artist; why is she called a "dancer" and not a "martial artist"? its because there's no fighting. you can take the art out of a martial art and its still fighting. you can't take the martial out and just have art, because then it is literally a different thing, like dancing.

too many people take the word art for its definition of "works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power." but that isn't what the "art" in martial art means. it means "a skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice."

>>813933
i have two problems with this statement.

1) you think that is the case, but it is often not.

2) why train to beat up people that suck

Been looking for an answer for months, can't find it, my surgeon lied to me so I won't bother asking him.

Had ulnar transposition, which is when they cut the tissue around your elbow nerve and replace it. Mine isn't replaced but just lies 'uncovered'.
When I stump my elbow it hurts and I wonder if it will ever heal up, I can't throw elbows, can't even do planks with my elbows on the ground or any other exercise like that. Can't risk falling or being thrown or plain rolling in bjj or wrestling.

It's been a few months, but I recently found out the surgeon was lying about a few things. I also specifically asked him if I would be able to put a lot of pressure on my elbow without the nerve getting inflamed again. Of course he said yes, but I'm not sure anymore.
Anyone with knowledge or experience in the matter?

>>813982

>you think that is the case, but it is often not.

Depends on the style. Some Kung Fu styles usually include sparring, others don't.

>why train to beat up people that suck

Because if you can throw some basic punches/kicks you can already defend yourself against a lot of people, and most "self defense" situations are against people who can't fight for shit.

You could also say "why training boxing when I could accidentaly have a fight with an MMA fighter with a gun" - there are always situations when you are fucked.


>>814014

You should ask differnt doctors, it's often good to hear differnt opinions.

>>814083
because the purpose of boxing isn't to fight an mma fighter with a gun, whereas the purview of a kung fu style should include fighting with another unarmed individual.

also the fact you think that bad punches/kicks can defend you against the kind of people that attack you in the street, and the kung fu wont devolve into just another untrained person swimming punches at another untrained person, is wrong.

i cant make you see the truth, and hopefully you are never in a situation to find out the truth, but i hope you at least start thinkign about this stuff more than you already are

>>814083
I've already heard from another doctor. He is supposed to be one of the best and I traveled quite far for his opinion. He knew to tell me that what the surgeon told me is plain wrong, and that he even used 'kinda weird' terminology to describe the operation.
For example my surgeon said he would 'scratch the infection off my nerve'. Using a knife on a nerve is 'kinda weird' and 'not done'. So I decided to not have the second operation (my other arm) and wait a bit longer.
He also operated on my after 4 months of pain, and there should have been at least 6 months of meds and rest to see a possible improvement.
Aside from that I don't really have a lot of money to spend on more doctors, so I try to do as much of my own research I can.

>>814014
don't ask 4chan for medical advice dude

that is like, rule #1 i think.

>>814099
Not really asking for medical advice, more just asking if people have had this too and if they healed up cleanly and were able to fight again.

>>814090

>the purview of a kung fu style should include fighting with another unarmed individual

Kung Fu has always been about "classical weapon fighting", so when you want to learn to fight with a Guandao or if you like artistic movements, doing a double kick while cutting with a saber at the same time I'd say "train Kung Fu" - even though you probably won't expect to stand on a battle field anytime soon.

The "Self Defense" is more of a side effect, because theses days nobody (not even chinese people) train Kung Fu primary for self defense reasons.

Nevertheless, I used to train in Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu (some years ago) and now train in Kyokushin karate, and the Round house kick I learned in Kung Fu is not differnt from a Mawashi Geri Chudan I throw these days, so..

>also the fact you think that bad punches/kicks can defend you against the kind of people that attack you in the street

Most stories that happend to me on the streets were "pushing each other and then someone throws a sucker punch". If you just remeber to not let someone get close and use a basic block/punch combination you are already prepared for a lot of stuff. People on the street don't attack with "high Jab, low Jab, cross" combinations, the get mad and try to punch you. A former Kung Fu buddy of mine had a streets fight and a simple punch worked just fine.

>i cant make you see the truth

Well, I have trained a lot of martial arts and I'd never say Kung Fu is perfectly suited for self defense, because you will learn a lot of stuff that is not releveant for self defense.

But that's not the point, because there already are a lot of matial arts out there that are perfectly suited for self defense - but they don't teach you to swing the glorious "meteor hammer"..

The point is, many Kung Fu styles allow you to hold your own in a fight - not against a trained kickboxer who does competitions, but against some drunken asshole tryin to start shit.

>>813947
I was tired and demoralized, but I pushed through. It's been hard, but the feeling of accomplishment and openness in the body at the end of a couple of final stretches was great.

>>813859
You might be suprised that many do not consider it the absolute truth, because there is no confirmation of it outside the kodokan, which makes it suspect. I personally believe it happened, since these kind of matches were common, but the details are hard to pin down since the accounts contradict each other on some points.

And they were not various jujutsu guys, they were yoshin ryu guys from one other dojo. They were not a sample of all the best jujutsu guys in japan.

>Can you back up this claim?

I posted this article,

http://judoinfo.com/kata.htm

if thats not enough for you I can dig through my books

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When I eat bananas, I find that I have less doms and a faster recovery.

Can anybody confirm?

Are there any martial arts that focus on *group* tactics? Like group offense and group defense?

>>814245
Could be all the minerals they contain.

>>815211
I only did some Progressive Fighting System lessons and it included "mass attack", ie defense against multiple attackers, which included some cool patterns which I would not otherwise know.

I don't know of any MAs that have a focus on group fighting, tho. It'd be cool.

>>815211
Literally every military and LEO.

>>815237
Where can I learn it? Besides enrolling, obv.

>>815243
Your local police or armed services recruitment centre.

>>815244
ehm, besides enrolling?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbFSVh1mmiw

>>815243

What you learn there is marchin in formations which you can either learn with some freinds or just by joinging a marching band..

The pure "fighting skills" are some basics of FMA with a bunch of aikido and judo locks.

Fighting in masses doesn't require that much skill..

>>815419
Fighting in numbers (both attacking and defending) has its quirks that could make quite the change in a fight. A prepared group could easily overcome a bigger unorganized group, all other things being equal, just as a trainer fighter can overcome an untrained one.

Also, being able to drill those quirks.

It's just something I was asking myself, since we're talking martial arts, and wars aren't fought by individuals

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>>815660

Yeah, but if we are talking about group fighting, we are talking about many guys with better equipment against few guys with bad equipment. Not much to learn here.

Nevertheless, if you are interested:
>http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-19-40/appb.htm

Is it too late to start a martial art if I am 24?

>>816407
Picked up Judo when I was 23 and added BJJ at 25. With some luck, I can get my 1st dan and purple belt next year. Get your ass on the mat anon, good times are to be had there.

>>816407
No. Do some research on what art you think you'll like, find some schools and try out their classes. You're quickly approaching the age where your body will start deteriorating annually, so best to get into a school now.

>>816407
Youre not going to be famous, but you can have fun

>>814245
>>815230
Or the tiny amount of radiation that bananas emit, did you pick up the Goulish perk by any chance?

>>809037
>self-training
No, just no. The probability of fucking up is tremendous.

>>814127
>Most stories that happend to me on the streets were "pushing each other and then someone throws a sucker punch". If you just remeber to not let someone get close and use a basic block/punch combination you are already prepared for a lot of stuff. People on the street don't attack with "high Jab, low Jab, cross" combinations, the get mad and try to punch you. A former Kung Fu buddy of mine had a streets fight and a simple punch worked just fine.
My Jujutsu instructor mentioned that the German jujutsu organization went through thousands of videos of street fighting to adjust their curriculum.

The result?
95% of all punches are wide swinging punches made by people who can barely even fight.

If you get a boxer mad and he starts pulling combos on you, you are likely fucked anyway just because of the moment of surprise. Especially if you aren't a boxer yourself and thus feel alienated by their fighting style and kind of at a loss.

>>816407
I started this year. Turned 24 two months after starting.

Definitely worth it. I'd suggest doing something that doesn't have a high probability of causing injury, though. Seriously, you are biologically an adult at 25 and that's when injuries start getting more and more evil.

>>817680
>95% of all punches are wide swinging punches made by people who can barely even fight.
This. Realistically any MA that teaches good fundamentals will give you an advantage over some drunk, no-training idiot trying to start a fight.

Why is this guy such a fucking faggot? Holy shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVvLcka3NgE

Just wondering, what's the farthest you guys have traveled regularly to a gym or dojo or whatever the fuck.

>>819320
My club is about 12-15 miles away.

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Do you remember?
I'll remind you anyway.

>McGregor doesn't have grappling
>Aldo has grappling
>Aldo is going to win because Aldo has grappling and McGregor doesn't

>Aldo has so much more experience than McGregor
>McGregor doesn't have as much experience as Aldo
>Aldo is going to win because Aldo has so much more experience than McGregor

I plan on doing Muay Thai over the summer. Until then I want to get my body prepared, so what should I do? Focus on cardio in the mean time?

Should I write an essay on why effective defense is strategically and tactically useful in MMA fights in general? Or would that just be letting that faggot in the UFC thread get to me too much?

>>829833
explain

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>>826689

Cardio, body weight and a lot of stretching.

>>830805
I hope those leg workouts include weights or something at least. How are you supposed to work out a muscle like the quad with just doing weightless squats, lunges and step ups?

>>831280
Maybe you forget that you're carrying your bodyweight around with you all the time.

>>831288
Yeah but wouldn't that get easier the more you do it?

>>831293
Lol

>>831299
So I take it that I'm right and bodyweight is total bullshit in helping you gain strength?

>>831309
It depends on how much strength you already have, to be honest.
Bodyweight is a lot less efficient once you get really stronk.

>>831309
Unless your Saitama doing 100 squats everyday won't help. You have to just make it harder and harder to get gains obviously. Just be creative but smart with how difficult you can make it.

>>808493
>if you want to talk about sports you'd be better off on /sp/. hell judo is an actual olympic event, why would it be on the same board as scripted drama and fake gun discussion? one of these things is not like the other.
because here in ma threads people in the discussion are actual ma practitioners
i actually wouldnt mind people who PRACTICE mandrama wrestling to discuss stuff here, because outside of the show they actually train and can provide useful input
but you mandrama children with your threads about jerking to paiges ass belong in /tv/

>>831322
You don't think we want out of this shit hole? Blame the people who put us here, until then make the best of us mandramafags.

>>831309
I say you lift weights and do bodyweight.

SS all the way bruh

>>831309
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVylMFWSIYw

>>831322
>i actually wouldnt mind people who PRACTICE mandrama wrestling to discuss stuff here
That would actually be pretty cool and it might even convince me to stop telling the fans to fuck off to /tv/.

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>McGregor doesn't have grappling
>Aldo has grappling
>Aldo is going to win because Aldo has grappling and McGregor doesn't

>Aldo has so much more experience than McGregor
>McGregor doesn't have as much experience as Aldo
>Aldo is going to win because Aldo has so much more experience than McGregor

>>814103
While you're asking 4chan, it might be worth asking /fit/. Maybe find a new doctor.

>>815211
Empty hand? Melee weapons? Modern warfare? You have a lot of options.

For empty hand, find a good dojo. I used to train at an excellent judo/TKD place and the instructor would pit two or three new people against an advanced student semi-regularly. We'd discuss tactics in class. Also, for self vs. group, parkour is your friend: Jackie Chan actually seems to have solid group fighting strategies in his movies, as he focuses on breaking up the assailants through creative movement and utilization of terrain and obstacles, negating their group advantage.

For melee weapons, look at medieval-style battle games (I'll list a few). Dagorhir is a poor man's game that allows grappling and uses padded weapons: big annual event, Ragnarok, draws two or three thousand attendees. SCA is a not-as-poor man's game with bigger field battles and (oftentimes) better-organized field tactics, but disallows grappling and uses rattan weapons, necessitating armor for protection: big annual event, Pennsic, draws 10k+. BoTN/ACL is anywhere from 1v1 to 5v5 armored fighting with blunt steel weapons where you put the other guy on the ground with pretty much any tactics necessary: dudes stopped dying and getting paralyzed so much when they disallowed stabs, horizontal strikes to the back of the neck, and vertical strikes to the spine. BoTN and ACL have international tournaments and shit, they take their sport super seriously and have thousands of dollars sunk into their kit: try the other games first.

For shooting tactics, look into airsoft, paintball, and your local militia types. Best case scenario is that you make rake range buddies with vets and cops with the "oath keeper" mindset who teach and drill things with you, then spar with you via airsoft/paintball/simunition shoot house.

>>831425
Thank you based anon.

>>831309

For beginners it's great. But even for intermediates.. you can get quite far, but most people donät have the discipline for it.

How many of those can you do?
Protip: none.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARNX6_5Rnac

>>831404
I like when the ref knees him in the face.

For someone who is doing MMA (Muay Thai/Kickboxing and BJJ) is it better to do bodyweight exercises than weights?

It appears the likes of Anderson Silva etc mainly did bodyweight excercises

>>807779
Both, at the same time.

>>833084
I liked that, too.

>>833181
Watch Anderson Silva's UFC behind the scenes. He does an equal amount of both.

But the main thing is he spars smartly, and practices his timing and reflexes the most.

>>833450
How is it possible to better your reflexes?

>>833460
depends on what kind of reflexes. for striking anderson silve promoted 2 during his behind the scenes UFC documentary. They only showed one.
He uses tennis balls and has someone throw them at his head and he dodges them. Another one is he ties a tennis ball to a baseball hat and swings and punches it before it smacks him in the face
Clip below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwkeNzW8gOg


The other one he mentioned in passing and few months ago (years later after Ando mentioned it) King Mo was shown doing it back stage waiting for his match during Bellator Dynamite.
https://twitter.com/zprophet_mma/status/645386838769856512

Grappling drills and reflexes are way different.

>>833460
You can train your raw reaction time, as well as train reactions as muscle memory.

>>833460
Reflexing are generally specific to a skill/situation. So, it would have to be in sparring or in situation type sparring.

General exercises will have a minimal effect.

>>833505
>>833507
another thing too is exploive speed and strength. Proper technique makes your body move more efficiently/less telegraphed. And then training your legs and hips you can "Explode" and have more sudden movement in your body's techniques.


Edson Barboza's coaches talked how fast he became when they worked out his explosiveness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrCFZwZeiSU

>>833519
So if I want fast punches I should strengthen my hips?

>>833545
hips and ass.
making a proper kinetic chain/punching right its all in your ass and hips. People with boxing experience could probably be more technical with the details. But you hear good strikers and their coaches, To "sit" into their strikes, which implies as they use their footwork, to use their hip and butt rotation to generate the most power.

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>>833181
I like to mix them personally. I try to keep it simple, but well categorized and organized. I divide my general training into several categories:
Methods:

Aerobic training
-Cardiac Outpit AKA LISS 30-45 min steady state with a consistent heart rate between 130-150. I always try to make sure a good portion is done with only my upper body on a Fan Bike. Any sort of training can be used including skill drills that keep a fairly consistent heart rate in the range you want to work.
-Tempo Intervals - 10seconds on (~70% intensity, 50 seconds off (low intensity, heart rate should recover to 130-140), 20-40 minutes
-Anaerobic Threshold for peaking

Strength and Strength-Endurance/Hypertrophy
-I use a few exercises. Trap bar deadlifts with a 3-5 rep range. This is my main strength exercise. I also like Pull-ups and Suspended Rows.
-Push-up variations with Row Variations back to back with a moderate tempo. Low rest. Improves endurance and hypertrophy (Slow twitch fibers have high endurance capacity)
-Also do some assistance exercises. Full Glute-Ham Raise (hip extension+knee flexion, as it's inventor intended) and some hip exercises.

Skill-Strength
-Some gymnastic skill variations. Working up to handstands right now. Good for variety, fun, and improving coordination.

Flexibility-Strength
-Low weight windmills, angels/floor slides (and the inverse facing upwards, sometimes with small weight in hands), exercises to improve hip flexibility such as isometric split holds.

Passive Flexibility
-Static stretching done separate from training or after aerobic training. Mainly focuses on hip flexibility as that is what is primarily needed for combat sports.

Floor Drills (General Skill)
-All sort of rolls, cartwheels, other acrobatic skills, shots, shadow boxing. The idea is to increase coordination, skills in sport, and skills close to sport skills.

continued....

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>>833562
Very Special Exercises
-Remember those very special episodes in the 80's/90's? The ones that everyone hated to watch, but taught a valuable lesson? You know, about the friendly bicycle shop owner being a pedophile who wants to rape your tight virgin butthole? That's what these are. They are important exercises that everyone hates to do, but will keep you safe.
-Neck exercises, ankle/foot exercises, wrist/finger exercises. All the most distal joints. You want to strengthen them. Do not do fatigue your neck before practice. That will only make you more susceptible to injury.

Lactic Conditioning (long sprints...etc): I would stay away from this. It tends to beat you up and affect your training. When it is done, save it for your sport practice.

>>833550
>>833545
Fast punches are generally thrown more from the torso than from the hip.

There is still hip movement, it is just minimized to speed up the punch.

>>833550
Adding all that kinetic linking makes the punch more telegraphic.
Not throwing the same punches all the time makes you a less predictable fighter.
Varying levels of kinetic linking should be looked at as different punches.
From an orthodox stance, calling every straight punch coming from the left hand is misleading.
There's so many ways to throw a straight punch with the left hand while in the orthodox stance.

>just arm
>arm and shoulder
>arm, shoulder, and hip
>arm and hip, without shoulder
>step variations of the punches
>different type of steps

There's a whole library of ways to throw punches out there, but Boxers are so often in a narrow mindset of "always throw the punch with full kinetic linking and make it telegraphic as fuck all the damn time."
It's kind of sad, honestly.

>>833578
Any good books on this?

>>833613
>Any good books on this?
>>833578
>There's a whole library of ways to throw punches out there
Was a figure of speech.

>>833616
I have books on judo, boxing, tkd, fma, and jkd floating around, wasn't sure if you had anything that discussed the striking concepts you were talking about in a particularly helpful fashion.

>>831324

If your fellow mandramatics would stop flooding the board with shitty "who's your favourite left-handed negro wrestler?" and "IS HE AUTISTIC!?" threads, no one would have a problem.

Wrasslin being on the board isn't pissing people off; Wrestling SHITTING up the board is.

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How in the fuck is your hand supposed to work in nukite? Won't you just break your fingers? Plz explain to me like I'm retarded.

>>833867
not a karateka, but it looks like a strike to be applied to soft tissue, or the so called pressure points. You're not gonna break bones with that (except if it's your bones, in the fingers, lol)
It's probably one of those things that's fun to know, but you won't actually use.

Why not ask your instructor?

>>833867
Pretty much what >>833914 said, you're supposed to use the extended reach and hit the eyes or throat.

>>833867
I also dont do karate, but I think its meant for gut strikes, and other soft tissue.

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>>833867

You're welcome.

>>834399
That's sweet, is the series worth it?

>>834408

Absolutely!

>>807624
Are your actually hitting something? You should snap your leg out fast without having something to hit.

>>809156
I think generally all bjj starts on the ground until you get to a higher belt

When I spar in boxing and someone steps on my foot it always fucks me up even when I am way better than whoever I'm sparring

What do senpai? Is it because my feet are big?

>>834745
Foot stomping is pretty effective as it kills your movement and leaves you pretty open for getting hit, and can also fuck your ankle up. The legality of it in boxing is arguable but if someone's constantly stomping down on your feet to hit you maybe talk to him and the coach, less because it loses you the spar and more because it can end up with a seriously injured ankle.

>>834773
When it happens it's usually because I am tall/long and keep opponents away and when they move in they often step on my foot, definitely not stomping though

and question remains what do I ACTUALLY do?

>>810569
that has to be the most exhausting thing in the world. You'll pass out of exhaustion before you even get punched by an attacker

>>833867
I had a TKD instructor who liked to break boards like that. He built up to doing knife-hand pushups to prepare.

>>834816
Just do some cardio, faggot. It's like you've never even Taekwondo'd before.

>>831628
Sure thing. In what region do you train? I might know someone/something specific to that area.

Worth mentioning:
The Russians have/had a 2v2 MMA deal in a kind of parkour obstacle course environment because Russia--it's on YouTube somewhere. They also have this folk thing called wall fighting--search YouTube for "Russian wall fighting" and you will not be disappointed.

>>810569
This is what it looks like when a break dancer throws a tantrum.

>>834711
*shouldn't
My instructor had to have his hips replaced because he spent his youth practicing kicks without anything to hit.

>>835372
Rome, Italy

>>835372
>The Russians have/had a 2v2 MMA deal in a kind of parkour obstacle course environment because Russia--it's on YouTube somewhere.
It's called "The Hip Show."

The faggots are too new and or too stupid to be good at it, from what I've seen, anyway.
They basically just put martial artists in a cage and said that they can run away.
The Parkour is very lacking, and the people are too novice to blend hand to hand combat and Parkour well and efficiently.
It has potential, though.

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>>835379
No shit? As an Italian interested in group martial arts, it is your duty to train for Calcio Fiorentino.

>>835383
>It has potential, though.
I'm really hoping this potential is soon realized, I haven't looked into them in about a year because they weren't skilled enough to be interesting after the novelty wore off.

>>834784
You could switch stances.
Orthodox to Southpaw or
Southpaw to Orthodox
It prevents foot collision

I'm physically in pretty poor health, I have always been interested in martial arts, and when I was young did karate. I have been thinking that maybe starting something could motivate me enough to get moving, but I don't know what martial arts would be good with a very low starting fitness. Any ideas?

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>>835542

Depending on how you want look at it, none of them or all of them.

Being fit is better than not being fit, so your training will go much better if you can keep up. Get fit.

However, any serious martial art will get you into decent shape if you put the work in.

So; pick an MA you're interested in. Show up, work hard, and work on your fitness level outside the gym. I've seen Judo un-fat a bunch of fatties in my time, and most other styles do the same.

As long as you work hard and don't weak the fuck out and quit, you will get fitter and better at whatever you train.

Are martial arts actually Fun?

In average, how manly injuries do you suffer per Year? How many of those are harsh(>2weeks recovery)?

Are there easy to get into competitive leagues im m.a.s like in Soccer for example(basically leagues for any skill Level)?

>>835568
Define fun. Because where you're at you're bound to get a number of responses telling you that yeah their muay thai/boxing class is a ton of fun but going by your post your issue is whether you'll get injured, how much, and whether you can compete against other people as new as you. And yeah, if you take a boxing/muay thai class chances are you're gonna take a few licks and have to spar against senior students with no competitive league to speak of.

If you want a pseudo-martial art that'll be fun and get you fit and let you meet people and show off cool stuff take Capoeira. But keep in mind that unless you find some form of mythical school that actually, legitimately emphasizes fighting, Capoeira won't prepare you for a fight, just to do some cool shit in parties.

If you want something to ease you into competition and martial arts while still being a pretty serious fighting exercise take Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Judo. Both have a very active competition format, both translate well into actual fighting skills and both make you spar at full speed with less chance of injury than striking styles. But do keep in mind you can still get injured and chances are you're gonna have to spar with more advanced students and get tapped/thrown a bunch, it's part of the process.

>>808285
>There was no warrior class in China, so all marital arts were essentially civilian arts.
Then where the fuck did all the Chinese warriors come from and why were CMA's used on the battlefield. Martial Arts are called what they are because they were developed and practiceced for war and by warriors. Every art is related can and has been used on the battlefield in some form. Just because those who were not distinctly in the military practiced and learned them does not make them 'civilian'
arts. It is absolutely unnecessary and stupid to make such a distinction.

>>807780
>>807780
>So, the individuals that focus on unarmed CMA are not warriors, not concerned with immediate effectiveness, focused more on "spiritual development" and other hocus pocus for life extension, and they are willing to throw anything into their system to increase its selling potential. That's why CMA is shit. It's always been shit. It'll always be shit.
Bullshit. Chinese warriors, just like others, could lose their weapons/means of defense on the field of battle and unarmed combat was and still is a quite effective way to do so. Just like learning h2h in modern militaries. And martial arts were only connected with spiritual development when parctioners of the arts converted or already religious people picked up arts and developed their own styles. Martial arts like Shaolin/Wudang were very effective and many monks were also warriors and fought in wars. There are also distinctions made between those who are religious I sects such as shaolin and those who are there merely for the arts. The Bhuddism/Daoism, etc. and martial arts have never absolutely had to be combined together. And those of Shaolin/Wudang/Qingcheng, etc. have been concerned about effectiveness. There were threats of attack at these places all of the time and those arts needed to be effective if these people there were to defend themselves.

>>808466
>So "Martial Arts", I find it to be a misleading term.
>Martial=War
>Art
How is this misleading?

>>808531
>It's fine if you're interested in the personal development stuff, but don't try to pass what you do as a martial art if it doesn't teach you how to fight. People would probably be less harsh on CMA and their lack of results in fighting if there weren't so very many adherents that insist that their blind following of ancient traditions long proved wrong make them fantastic fighters and that their styles are too deadly for the cage. Which you didn't do so points there I guess.
Many still do full contact lei tai matches

>>835831
Not him, but there are some people, mostly followers of Dreager who still insist that only arts with clear battlefield or military applications count as "martial" arts, and other arts such as karate or judo are fighting arts because they focus on civilian combatives.

Its not a position I share mind you, but it makes sense if you want to get really anal about the word "marital"

>>835823
>unarmed combat worked on the battlefield and spiritual stuff came later
i'm quoting the quanfa beying, and other historical documents that show this to be the case. you are quoting what you think to be the truth, which is wrong even today. Ask any marine how likely they are to continue fighting barehanded if they lose both their weapons on the battle field. They aren't going to go out and krav maga the guy. they are going to look for a new weapon. Olden times were no different.

>shaolin were in wars
all the wars in which they won accolades were fought with weapons, and were before any recorded empty hand techniques (the shaolin recorded A LOT of things, which really says something).

show me any historical document that agrees with what you are saying and i will apologize. but i know you can't, because there arent any :)

>>835836
Yes and I'll give those few the respect they deserve for actually putting their skills to the test. And don't kid yourself, there's not that many who do full contact matches or we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Many krotty styles get shit on with good reason but karateka were the driving force behind the kickboxing boom in Japan and the west and have regularly crossed over to full contact matches against other styles with a good degree of success. CMA has Sanshou/Sanda but as a whole it has earned its reputation for isolationism, blind traditionalism and refusal to pressure test what they do.

Also I'd like to add the addendum that competing within your own insular environment gets you very little props and that you should probably actively seek to compete with other schools to see whether what you do works against someone who isn't also doing it. Wing Chun chain trapping can look pretty sweet but only if the other guy is also willing to engage you in it rather than break away and sock you in the face, as a means of example.

I'm not writing off trapping, a good, quick hand trap to open a guard has found success in boxing, kickboxing and MMA, but I am writing off the kind of sequences born when two dudes from the same style and school who are already invested in hand trapping engage one another in it because it's what they've been taught. If you stick to a stagnant testing environment where everyone operates within the same paradigm you're going to plateau and sooner rather than later.

>>835945
>i'm quoting the quanfa beying, and other historical documents that show this to be the case. you are quoting what you think to be the truth, which is wrong even today.
If your quoting from this "Quanfa Beying", then post it, I just looked all over for the damn thing and haven't found it. I can concede that there are things I do not kow about but, my research skills are not shoddy and if I haven't found it in the places I know aresure to know of such a thing then, until I see it I am very skeptical of it's existence.
>Ask any marine how likely they are to continue fighting barehanded if they lose both their weapons on the battle field.
They aren't going to go out and krav maga the guy. they are going to look for a new weapon. Olden times were no different.
The entirety of martial arts history and the fact we even have unarmed martial arts let alone the fact that they were developed by the warriors of nearly every single culture proves you wrong, every single one developed an unarmed art as a means of defense, Karate for the Okinawan Pechin, Muay Boran for Thai Warriors,etc. Even European sword fighting manuals and instructionals showcase unarmed techniques for combat. China was no different. Quit talking out of your ass, if you can't bother to do even basic research. The key word here being UNARMED, in this instance a weapon is not only not readily availiable but can scarcely be found/is nonexistent, The marine in question would have no choice but to use whatever krav maga/unarmed combat he knew as he has no weapons and cannot easily access one even his knife could be dull/lost/broken and he cannot access another one. And do you expect his enemy to simply stop trying to kill him with whatever weapons he possesses while the marine looks for another one, he'd hound him the moment he knew the marine was at a disadvantage. The marines/nearly every modern military teaches some form of unarmed combat for defense(cont.)

>>835945
>>836952
(cont.)
The fact that you debate this proven fact shows ignorance of the development of both military history and martial arts
> Olden times were no different.
This is true but only because, as today, unarmed martial arts were and still are a necessary and effective means of combat, even and especially so in militaries.
>all the wars in which they won accolades were fought with weapons, and were before any recorded empty hand techniques (the shaolin recorded A LOT of things, which really says something).
>show me any historical document that agrees with what you are saying and i will apologize. but i know you can't, because there arent any :)
You can look up nearly any ancient military combat manual (European/HEMA Manuals, hell the Bubishi, venerated by the Pechin warriors an a lynchpin of Karate's development) and find references to unarmed combat techniques for use when deprived of weaponized means of self defense. There is nothing to be proven. It is fact that these styes(such as Shaolin Kung-Fu) were developed or at least used on the battlefield. It is not at all such a stretch to think that monks could have lost weapons on the field of battle as well, as it is clearly noted to have happened to warriors from all over, or were the warriors monks somehow exempt from the problem for unarmed arts were developed, and proven to solve?

>>836016
I will agree with this with the addition of an explanation for:
> Many krotty styles get shit on with good reason
,in that these mcdojo styles often only point spar and with protection at that, that's all many people see so they label all Karate like that, Despite full contact Karate styles(many Shotokn, Kyokushin, Enshin, etc.) Serious legitimate point sparring is meant to be bare knuckle. If you look up 70's/80's bare knuckle point sparring fights they showcase much of the importance point sparring holds and how serious it can get. Contestants broke ribs and fingers from what many think is 'just a game of tag'.

>>836952
can you read chinese?

>>836952
>the marines teach unarmed combat for defense

Not that anon, but jarhead chiming in. I can tell you were never in the military. The "unarmed" self defense is a couple days of BJJ+Muay thai. I know one or two tricks, but that's about it.

However my marksmanship is outstanding and I can clear most malfunctions with my eyes closed.

>>836980
I don't think you can call the World Karate Federation a "McDojo", even if its approved kumite rules are light contact point sparring that has turned into a glorified game of tag. Unless you want to start calling every big name organization that regulates sports versions of martial arts a McDojo and that opens up a whole can of retarded worms. As an aside, old styles of traditional karate post-Te era have long been adverse to sparring. Shotokan is the biggest name in karate by virtue of its spread and influence and its founder Gichin Funakoshi was very much opposed to sparring, so much so that the first competitions only appeared after his death and even today Shotokan free sparring, generally speaking, encourages no contact or light contact.

>>836987
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the general idea of training soldiers in unarmed combat nowadays is pretty much just instilling in them at least a modicum of willingness to continue fighting when shit has gone bad and a basic idea of what to do in these situations, because if you're resorting to hand to hand things are well beyond fucked.

Best lifts to gain power in punches and add hip mobility?

New boxer who is home for a month on christmas break with no access to a bag of any sort here, was hoping I could do something productive before I head back to school.

>>837076
>Hip mobilty
Im Not much of a fighter, but hurdle walk overs and duck unders are goat for that.

>>837304
How convenient since coincidentally every martial arts gym has several hurdles just lying around!

>>807779
ayy lbp is the shit my man

>>836987
>but jarhead chiming in.
>all training throughout the years of the military is exactly the same

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>>836987

Recent ex-Infantry guy here from Canada, can also confirm this. We get about a week of Krav Maga-ish CQC training during our Combat school, refreshed with one or two days training per year. That's about it for hand to hand.

We spent a fuck load of time shooting, doing weapons drill, practicing call for fire, etc. Weapons, bushcraft, comms, medical skills, vehicle skills, rank WAAAAAAAAYYYY higher on the priority list than hand to hand shit. Hell, basic admin skills rank higher.

Every combat arms guy I know who likes to fight trains a combat sport. the fobbits that like to post warrior wisdom shit on facebook while avoiding morning PT love stuff like Krav and Kung Fu. Really tells you something.

I want to learn some striking (wrestled in high school). Doing it because it seems useful to be able to know how to actually throw a punch, and because I'd like to try and mentally toughen up a bit. The only options near me are boxing and muay thai.

I'm apprehensive though, because I'm an athletic trainer and know what repeated head injuries do long term. I also don't want to fuck up my face because I dont have that much else going for me.

I don't think I'm a total pussy but I wouldnt consider myself especially tough. I dont really want to be injured regularly.

Should I still do boxing/muay thai? Is either better than the other considering my concerns?

>>837722
you come off as something of a pussy and you're in 4chan so your face can't be all that =^)

In all seriousness, I don't think accumulating damage from training in boxing without striving to compete at high levels such as Golden Gloves should be anywhere near as much of a concern as it is for people going pro, but if it really worries you that much Muay Thai's lesser levels of boxing and increased target areas might save you headpunches at the risk of eating the occasional kick every now and then.

>>808432
really. I feel like the rules favor wrestlers. You get two points for the takedown, if they miss the shoot, you cant kick them in the head. Most of the learn the essentials of stand up because all fights start from it. look at the champs as well in the UFC.
HW: wrestler beat a wrestler
LHW wrestler beat a striker (id call jones a wrestler too)
MW wrestler beat wrestler
WW striker beat wrestler (gsp is a wrestler tho, so is hendrix). The lower down in the weight classes you go the wrestlers arent as predominant likely because theyre much faster on their feet.

>>809811
You're a television watcher even if you only watch Breaking Bad.

>>837810
>the rules favor wrestlers.
This.

You can't kick or knee the head of an opponent with any part of the body except for the feet on the ground.
You can't stomp a grounded opponent.
You strike downwards using the point of the elbow.
No jumping dropping elbow strikes like in Muay Thai, no elbowing a grappler trying to mount you, you just can't do those elbows.

You can't do fingertip strikes, no tiger claw-type strikes, and you can't even head butt.

I came across a capoeira class that is apparently taught as a real martial art rather than just a dance. They were practicing takedowns and everything. It was taught in a martial arts studio along with other more well known martial arts. I asked the mestre about it and he said that he did focus on the martial aspect and that the sifu owner of the studio specifically wanted someone with experience in the martial side of capoeira. So what do you think senpai? Waste of time or not?

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>>808365
I'll tell you why.
You get into punching range before you get into grappling range.
You get into kicking range before you get into punching range.
You have to get close to grapple.
Every time you hit someone with good technique, you deal damage to them. Hit someone real hard and keep them at distance at the same time, and you'll win the fight before they can even hug you.
Grappling is so much more predictable than striking, it's easy to learn how to keep people from grappling and then keep hitting them.
You can literally render someone unconscious with one hit, and like I said earlier, you get into striking range before you get into grappling range.
Unconditioned people go down with one good kick to the leg.
Even trained and conditioned people have a really hard time moving and fighting after taking a few good kicks to the leg.
You can even strike people when you're grappling with them, dealing damage.
Muay Thai knows what they're doing with those knees in the clinch.

Grappling is like using fists while striking is like using knives.

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>>837820
You don't find martial Capoeira as often as you find dancing.
It's very well worth checking out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-gstckxAsY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nRBcePZ7Ss

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>>837822
>Muay Thai knows what they're doing with those knees in the clinch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIVD85VfZTs

This Taekwondo guy knocked out this Muay Thai guy with one kick before the Muay Thai guy could even think about clinching him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPNoGhdhKyw

>>837824
Man, I really miss TKD.

>>835568
yes it's fun to do and get some knockouts once in a while

>>835568
Do Taekwondo that does a lot of point sparing if you're scarred of some injury.

Do Kickboxing for more of a thrill if you're fine with some bruises.

Kyokushin Karate if you're hardcore and like Kickboxing.

>>807831

So you'll learn some CMA, then take out everything that doesn't work and add some elements that it needs but lacks? Congratulations. You'll have reinvented Sanda.

>>808466
>Best in what?
Fighting. That's what "martial" means."

>Best for self defense?
False dichotomy. Self defense is fighting.

>Best for being a thug?
The best martial arts for fighting would also make you a better thug. The bar for skill is lower for a thug because you're the one starting the fight, maybe even with a sucker punch, but a nak muay or boxer thug is going to be a better thug than a hung gar thug.

>Best for health?
This is irrelevant for martial arts. Health comes from exercise, nutrition, medicine, and genetics. Martial arts are about winning fights. It's entirely likely that training to win fights is injurious to your health in the long term, but if judo cripples you by 65 and tai chi keeps you mobile til 90, those things are not relevant to their value as martial arts, in which context judo vs tai chi at 20 results in tai chi getting rekt.

>Best it a ring? For which ruleset?
Fuck your sport vs. street. There's a grain of truth in it, but the idea that people who can't even spar can "actually" fight is just silly.

>>810017
>udo is a bad example (Judo forms are very different form actual fighting and pretty much a "demonstration reel"), but Karate is more like that. You pratice your punches and kicks with increasing speed and power and it definately has it's benefits for actual fighting. Of your don't do everything you learn there, but some things, yes.

This is exactly the opposite of true.

You ever watch how many different karate schools do different types of kata? Shotokan katas make you look like a four-foot-tall brick shithouse. Shorinryu katas move you around in circles like a human spirograph. Kenpo katas make you slap your own shit like you just fell into a fire ant mound.

Put them in the ring and they all spar the same way. Poorly.

That wouldn't be so if they were learning anything from their katas.

>>816407

I watched a guy get his first black belt in Seidokaikan at age 68 a few years ago. And no, they didn't go easy on him.

He's never going to fight professionally, but he enjoys it.

What's a good bodyweight routine to supplement bjj training?

>>837999

I think the older you get the more discipline you need to keep in shape and learning times gets somehow longer. But I have the utmost respect for people who train a full contact martial art that age. It surely takes a lot of willpower to get there.

>>838258
The brain is still going through brain puberty from 0years to 25years. Discipline and willpower parts of the brain are still developing from 0-25.

Good habits die hard, it doesn't take much willpower and discipline when you've developed habits.
If you keep in shape and the effects of old age are still effecting you by 50, it'll be more difficult, but good habits still die hard.

>>838005
wondering this too

>>836983
If your the guy, with the Quanfa post it, I do alright with written and spoken and know people leagues better than me. I can manage

>>837016
>I don't think you can call the World Karate Federation a "McDojo", even if its approved kumite rules are light contact point sparring that has turned into a glorified game of tag. Unless you want to start calling every big name organization that regulates sports versions of martial arts a McDojo and that opens up a whole can of retarded worms.
I was, using Mcdojo, in the sense of styles that only/majorly point spar. If all the schools of the WTF and the WTF itself advocate/only focus on points when sparring and do not go full contact I think that yes that is a major sign of a mcdojo, for the organization itself and their schools, an ingrained policy for their 'chain', what have you, that can be clearly seen from their style or when you visit a school.
> As an aside, old styles of traditional karate post-Te era have long been adverse to sparring. Shotokan is the biggest name in karate by virtue of its spread and influence and its founder Gichin Funakoshi was very much opposed to sparring, so much so that the first competitions only appeared after his death and even today Shotokan free sparring, generally speaking, encourages no contact or light contact.
A question, Which styles would you consider post-Te era? Before the inclusion of Northern Shaolin and Fujian White Crane, the two Chinese styles that greatly influenced Karate? Was not Kyokushin founded 'Post-Te' al though probably a bit more modern. And did not Matsutatsu Oyama enter many tournaments and competitions as he developed his style to test Kyokushin proving sparring was important to Post Te Karate/creating the 100/300 man kumite? Since Japan was highly militaristic from what iv'e looked into older Jap karate they valued sparring almost at the exclusion of all else, as it was fighting and thus bushido/Fighting Spirit and the like
My style was Shotokan and my school sparred full contact with just helmet,gloves, shin/foot guards. As for styles that are sparring averse, vet schools and spar(cont.)

>>838346
(cont.) My school trained/sparred as any other full contact Karate style, it was just Shoto. There were also interstyle tournaments that included other styles like Muay Thai students could enter, and made allowances for rules.
A an example of good sparring management for any perceived deficiency Iv' read one post somewhere way back way back either on Bullshido or Sherdog that a Shotokan school would regularly spar with the Kyokushin school near them nearly every practice. It was nut up or shut up time every spar.

Are there any sources, books, vide channels, anything, that you could recommend for learning basic wing chun? I'm really interested in it, but the closest schools are pretty damn far away from me. Would be nice if I could get some grasp of it on my own.

>>838862

Just.. don't.

>>838912
Why not?

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>>837995

This post should be the /asp/ ma FAQ.

Mods, make it happen.

>>837995
>>838917
this and the \\\+///

>>837995
>>838917

There's literally 0 clarification for anyone seeking advice on MAs in this post.
Also, street vs ring = nitpicking is plain wrong.

>>838862
Why you want Wing Chun exactly?

There's "Master Wong" on youtube, but you can't really learn an MA from videos.

>>838991
I'm fond of the philosophy of southern chinese styles. And yeah, I know I won't become "the most powerful fighter in the hoods" with it. If I wanted to do that I would do something else. Also the closest wing chun school is a 1,5h drive away, and I don't even have a car.

>>838996
I understand.
you can't really learn something so different from how you've been using your body until now from videos, tho. Also with no experienced person to correct your mistakes you'll only get bad habits.

Isn't there any other southern school around?

>>839021
I'm afraid that wing chun's the closest.

>>837995

>Fighting. That's what "martial" means."

So you don't think the environment or the usage of weapons change anything?
Even tiny changes of rules already change a lot, even tiny adjustments like Boxing gloves vs. MMA gloves change a lot and you just think "fighting = fighting"?

Sorry, that's wrong.

>Self defense is fighting.

Remeber me to bring pepper spary and my longstaff to the next MMA fight. Because "fighting = fighting".

>a nak muay or boxer thug is going to be a better thug than a hung gar thug.

Being a good thug is about cleverness. Where do you position? How to pick your victims? Time/place? How to make your first move? Distractions? Situational awareness?

There's overlap with "being a good fighter" and "being a good thug", but it's not the same. As an example, some decades ago an amazing grappler was stabbed from behind with a poisoned dagger by some yakuza dude and died in hospital.

>This is irrelevant for martial arts.

No. It's definately a decision if you care or care not about your joints, about alzheimer's disease and so on.

>Martial arts are about winning fights.

Maybe centuries ago. Nowadays they are mostly cultural enrichment, fun, competition, styaing healthy, even money making.

>the idea that people who can't even spar can "actually" fight is just silly.

That's the only thing I definately agree with. Sparring is necessary for becoming a good fighter. But that doesn't mean that sparring is the only thing you need to learn or that technique drills are useless.

>>837996

Judo Katas don't make you better in fighting at all. But if you practice strikes in Karate Katas for hours you'll definately devellop muscles and some more punching power from it or get better flexibility. I'm not saying that everything in Katas is usefull, but at least you train with power and speed and gain some advantage from it. In Judo it's more to show that you can do something in a very "clean" way, but it's not similar to what you do in fighting.

>>838991
>but you can't really learn an MA from videos.

It is in fact possible to learn a martial art and effectively apply it without a teacher and or sparring.

A common myth is that one is unable to perceive the flaws on one's movements when mimicking the movements of a martial art, and that a teacher is required to detect these flaws in form and aid in correcting them.
Detecting the flaws in one's form can easily be done with the utilization of attention to detail and a mirror.
It would take some very severe cognitive impairments and or lack of effort to be unable to do this, given that adiquate information is provided.

Another common myth is that muscle memory is required to apply martial arts, and that one would be unable to participate in combat without getting a gluteus maximus kicking.
One reason people believe this myth is because of how much more quickly humans tend to react to a stimuli with muscle memory rather than conscious reaction time. They fail to understand that this in no way means that conscious reaction cannot be utilized. With higher aptitude for reaction time and or training, one who may have never engaged in hand to hand combat will be able to perform as well if not better than one who has trained muscle memory for hand to hand combat, not to mention how muscle memory can be used in combat if trained with proper knowledge and understanding beforehand.

Experience is only as creditable as how it's interpreted.

Not saying that learning with a teacher isn't almost always more efficient.

>>839638
nice copypasta

>>838989

No, sport vs street isn't nitpicking and I didn't say so in that post. I said sport vs. street is silly, and it is.

There are martial arts that work in sport AND in the street, and there are martial arts that do neither. There are no martial arts that only do one.

>>839032
>But if you practice strikes in Karate Katas for hours you'll definately devellop muscles and some more punching power from it or get better flexibility.

No, you won't. Stretch if you want flexibility. Lift if you want strength. Muscles don't come from punching air. I can't believe I had to tell you this.

I'm not even going to address your other silliness because you know Hung Gar which means you know fuck-all about fuck-all. Nitpicking about boxing gloves vs MMA gloves in sparring when you spend your time doing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t-JboICb28 is like sharing your preference for the handling of a McLaren vs. a Ferrari when you've never done anything but sit in your dad's 1996 Camry making vroom noises.

>>839638
I absolutely fucked your entire argument hollow months ago. I'm still here, so please go.

>>839750
care to repeat that argument then?

>>839771

No. You read it then and responded with nonsense. Learn to remember things.

>>839750
>I absolutely fucked your entire argument hollow months ago.
lol, keep telling yourself that.

>>839750
>I absolutely fucked your entire argument hollow months ago. I'm still here, so please go.
You can try to fuck facts, you can even try really hard, but you just can't fuck facts.

>>839904

You've never posted a fact in your life.

>>839750
Street vrs sport is a rather poor argument in most respects, there is however a difference between affective and pseudo-predatory violence, and martial art systems set up around them. The former focus on social violence, fights duels and the sportive counterparts. The other are generally weapon handling systems, focused on battlefield or other socially unacceptable applications.

you can see this in sword styles where armor is involved. the footwork is wider and the moves are often slower and simpler, and they would be at a disadvantage in a sparring match on a smooth floor where the other side was free to used rapid footwork, with their weight on the balls of their feet. This is a rather drastic example, but in general once the focus of an art changes from dealing with a possibly armed assailant to a duel or sparring situation, the art changes to more rapid footwork, and things that are not immediately applicable to the normal etiquette or rules are done away with, because why waist time training material you wont use anyway.

>>830805
That's a nice guide, but how much are you supposed to do from those when just starting? I doubt you'll be able to do them all after months of doing fuck all.

What's your opinion on Kuk-Sool?

I've been practicing it for some months(intermitently, due to some shit on college), and so far, from what i know, it has
>obvious self defense
>grabs, though not like judo's
>forms for tecnique
>general respiration tecniques, i can't remember their purpose, tho
>deviating attacks rather than blocking them
>staff and some sword training, plus using 2 sticks that i can't remember now, apparently used by korean police
>defense against weapons
>focus on agility, since, from what i've heard and read, it's based on shaolin kung-fu
>sparring from the third belt or so, to put in practice what you learned before and not get your ass handed to you from the beggining

I also like the "wear you down for an hour or so doing random training, and then do an hour of actual training to get you used to moving while tired" aspect, but i supposed that's present pretty much everywhere.

Also, considering i'm a massive parkour fag(as in, i love it, not that i'm actually good at it), the focus on agility seems great to me.

>>841848
Nevermind, i just read the lower left corner. What does "C25K" refers to, though?

>>841945

not bad, but cross trainig in a competing sport would be good.

>>839638
>It is in fact possible to learn a martial art and effectively apply it without a teacher and or sparring.
Possible? Maybe. A good way to get your ass kicked because you have shit form and sparring skills and no one more experienced to correct you? Absolutely

>>838989

It does answer a lot of frequently asked questions, though...

>>839750
>No, you won't. Stretch if you want flexibility. Lift if you want strength. Muscles don't come from punching air. I can't believe I had to tell you this
You can. Forms, solo drills and static holds are good for things like 'time under tension' and train 'muscle memory' for you techniques Drilling the basics and your stances over and over is highly important. The majority of musclular development should be done through lifting/bodyweight exercises but to say that you can physically gain nothing from forms and solo practice is ludicrous

>>843286

They're suboptimal methods and you'll reach the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly.

I have 168 hours in my week. If twenty minutes of squatting will make me stronger than four hours of horse stance (and it will), I know how I'm going to spend my limited time. I don't know where you're going with "time under tension," but I'm sure you'll expound upon it.

Muscle memory would mean something if people looked at all like their forms when they fought but they don't, so it doesn't. You're standing in weird stances with no footwork and artificial timing, and it just doesn't carry over.

I'll bet if you have done karate for a while you can watch a shorinryu guy and a shotokan guy do a form and tell me which is which. I'll also bet that if they're under the same rules you can't watch them spar and tell me which is which, because they're both going to fight like a bad kickboxer. More importantly, they're going to fight like the same bad kickboxer.

(And if repeating that point for the hundredth thread doesn't tell everybody I'm still here without the name I don't know what will.)

>>843300
>They're suboptimal methods and you'll reach the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly.
The fact that forms and route solo patterns are included in nearly every form of martial art shows that the people of the past thought they were highly optimal, If they had no use or were sub par they would not be included. What diminishing returns come from forms, you drill them and drill them again to learn them, practice more to get them down pact and then practice again to perfect and refine them. Then once, you've gotten good you still keep practicing as you learn others and do the same. Basics and forms of some type are key to martial arts and they're will never be any getting around that. In Karate the thre breakdown of basic things you do are Kata (forms), kihon(basic techniques) and Kumite( Sparing and it is said thet where there are no basics there is no karate.
>I have 168 hours in my week. If twenty minutes of squatting will make me stronger than four hours of horse stance (and it will), I know how I'm going to spend my limited time. I don't know where you're going with "time under tension," but I'm sure you'll expound upon it.
Squatting will surely make you stronger than horse stance, (cont.t)

Muscle memory would mean something if people looked at all like their forms when they fought but they don't, so it doesn't. You're standing in weird stances with no footwork and artificial timing, and it just doesn't carry over.

I'll bet if you have done karate for a while you can watch a shorinryu guy and a shotokan guy do a form and tell me which is which. I'll also bet that if they're under the same rules you can't watch them spar and tell me which is which, because they're both going to fight like a bad kickboxer. More importantly, they're going to fight like the same bad kickboxer.
>(cont.)
(And if repeating that point for the hundredth thread doesn't tell everybody I'm still here without the name I don't know what will.)
(con.t)

>>843800
>>843822
>I have 168 hours in my week. If twenty minutes of squatting will make me stronger than four hours of horse stance (and it will), I know how I'm going to spend my limited time. I don't know where you're going with "time under tension," but I'm sure you'll expound upon it.
Squatting will surely make you stronger than horse stance, as I stated before resistance training is important (and indispensable) to muscle training, But all the squats in the world you do won't make up for a shitty horse stance. Take the Karate form, Taikyoku Godan, with every stance in it being a horse stance, the stance is the basis for all of the blocks you do. Without a good horse stance as a base the purpose of the form and any other movement you can do while in horse stance is made null, and trying to pull off a punch like tate zuki or seiken choku zuki from that position just results in a shitty and ineffective move. You also limit one more technique you have in your arsenal. I used 'time under tension' to refer to 'how much time a muscle is flexed/working uder set tension (like a static hold), say holding a squat for 20 seconds after moving down. Staying in stasis in while practicing might not build muscle as well as resistance training but it does help in that area as well as endurance, etc. (i.e. being able to hold stances as bases for movement)
>Muscle memory would mean something if people looked at all like their forms when they fought but they don't, so it doesn't. You're standing in weird stances with no footwork and artificial timing, and it just doesn't carry over.
I meant muscle memory in the body's proven ability to 'remember movement; and muscle memory of course means something as all of that time you've spent doing those movements won't make you think twice when you must actually use them. Those weird stances are the core stances of your style. There are no stances you use aside from maybe obscure ones Karate's neko aishi daichi ( cont.)

Anybody got any good videos going over a stretching routine for martial arts? I have a stretching routine already, but I find it easier to focus and follow through if I play a routine on video and follow it from beginning to end.

Lately I've been doing this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32s0SWcTyds

>>843868
It doesn't matter how you stretch your muscles, just as long as it follows these guidelines.

- you warm up first
- you do dynamic stretching (no ballistic stretching)
- you exercise and or train
- you cool down a little or do some dynamic stretching
- you do static stretching

I'm sure that you can find some information on the interned about the scientific validity of using these guidelines.

>>843867
(cont.)...neko aishi daichi rarely( if you can't tell im a Karateka, style: Shotokan), however stances such as front and horse stance are stances you will almost never not be in. And moving in forms is nothing but footwork the slowness of it is meant so that you calmly move through the form and focue on how your doing what your doing (and their are forms that are faster) you go fast enough to be quick and so your not going in slow motion with each move like you would preform them in practice or a real situation but slow enough to be cognizant of what your doing and not just fly through and half ass your movements. The stances in said forms are again the corner stone of your style and you will be switching in and out of then as you practice and spar. In addition, you hone your footwork even further by combining your practice with footwork drills( tai sabaki). to reinforce the importance of moving and switching in/out while in stances.
>I'll bet if you have done karate for a while you can watch a shorinryu guy and a shotokan guy do a form and tell me which is which.
I can, quite
I'll also bet that if they're under the same rules you can't watch them spar and tell me which is
which, because they're both going to fight like a bad kickboxer. More importantly, they're going to fight like the same bad kickboxer.
No, they will most definitely fight differentl the training they've done is different as is their style. Even as two, Karate styles, They will have idiosyncrasies that set them apart. They wil also ost certainly not fight like a bad or even the same bad kickboxer. If they are bareknuckle, not akickboxer. If they are using a chambered mawashi geri with a leg held up first and hips twisted, not a kickboxer (especially if we are talking about Muay Thai style roundhouse kicks as they are very different from Karate ones. (cont.)

>>837995
>Self defense is fighting.
UFC is not equal to no rules at all.
Self defense is more than just melee weapons combat. The difference between Western Boxing and UFC is already vast, and the difference between UFC and sword fighting is very vast.
Self defense is quite far from hand to hand combat.
There are similarities, but there are a lot of differences. All fighting is not the same.

>for being a thug
Not all thugs are the same. Some can have no martial arts training, some can only know how to hold a knife in a decent grip, some are ex-military, some are trained in Boxing, some are trained in KungFu, some are trained in Aikido, some did wrestling on high school, some did Taekwondo in elementary school.

There are too many variables at hand for you to make such a generalized claim and call it truth.

>>838917
Shut your ignorance and delusion.

>>843911
(cont.)also since they are again two differnt styles, Shotokan and Shorin-Ryu they won't fight like the same anything. And if we are using the kickboxing rules that don't allow elbows or knees then what they are ding is not kickboxing as hiza geri and empi uchi will be allowed.

>>843916

They're different because they're different? That's all you have?

>>843911
Yeah. Front, back, cat, horse...you spend a lot of time doing forms in stances you'll never use. That's pretty much the definition of a waste of time.

Slow motion is also a waste of time.

>>842586
>answers questions
>with 0 clarification
And that's why 4chan sucks.

>>844084

Then post something better.

>>844083
>They're different because they're different? That's all you have?
Yes and those are some of the indubitable tellso differences between styles especially simiar ones let alone.two completely different ones. The movements they use. how they preform attacks, how they spar, all differnces I that denote 'styles' and what art is being used. That's like calling Muay Boran, Bokator; Lethwei, Muay Thai; or tai chi, Baguazhang; they might have a few things that are similar but they have obvious differences and are definitely not the same thing.
>Yeah. Front, back, cat, horse...you spend a lot of time doing forms in stances you'll never use. That's pretty much the definition of a waste of time.

Slow motion is also a waste of time.

There is no martial art which does not include stances in some form. They are proven to be exacly not a waste of time. You will definitely be in front stance in karate even in sparring perhaps horse but less likely than front. Forward facing stance s are for the most part how straight and some hook/uppercut punches are delivered. Muay Thai,Boxing, Karate, every style as it. Like in front stance you push off of your back leg generating power from your ear foot, moving your body forward you twist with your hips to add in additional movement /rotation, your upper body and shoulders move, you then move your arm and preform the punch.Forms are a key tool to learn proper technique and 'generation of power' if you will. In Karate you don't start off in front or horse stance when learning the first puch and majoritarily the first move: Choku zuki. you stand straight feet side by side to learn how to properly do the punch and generate power from your hips FIRST, before adding in you legs with Front/Horse Stance xo that you an effectively punch with just your hips and then add to that with your legs. This 'whole forms and stances are a waste of time' is proven untrue and nothing more than a meme at this point.(cont.)

>>844146
(cont.) Yu may not personally like them and that'sfine, you don't have to do them, find a different art but forms are definitely not useless or a waste of time. Those of the past who put them in the arts knew of their importance and they still stay relevant conerstones of styles to this day.

>>844146

STANCES are fine. But you won't find me a karate sparring video where people are in the stances they do in forms. You'll say, oh, look, one leg's in front so it's zenkutsu, or he's on his toes so it's neko, but it's bullshit.

Do you fight in a STANCE? Yes. In a KARATE stance? No, not really.

As for sparring, Shotokan (which I've done) is done with low stances, long, linear techniques, and a ridiculously stilted rhythm. Sparring is done standing up, bouncing on your toes like a bad kickboxer, with punches that get pulled back, and at least an attempt at throwing combinations in a natural rhythm.

Shorinryu (whose descendant, Isshinryu, I have done to dan rank) is supposed to contain short, upright, natural stances and circular, indirect movements. In sparring they bounce on their toes and fight like bad kickboxers.

If you have counterexamples to this, post them. I've been around this motherfucker since the early 90s and I haven't seen it yet.

>>844206

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pEyTYhuBg

This was always one of my favorite kata to do. It's fun and looks cool, but those fucking movements don't bear the slightest resemblance to fighting stuff. It's just posing and throwing kicks and punches and blocks in weird cadences. And taking a step, landing in a stance, and then punching or kicking is not footwork.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9kxtJpRmw4

Here's Shotokan sparring. Where'd all those stances go? How did the kata prepare them to do this?

And more importantly, if you walked up to one of them in the street and slapped him in the face, which of those two videos do you think the fight would look like? I'm going to bet it wouldn't look like the kata, suddenly sped up and performed in response to what was actually going on.

>>841961
>What does "C25K" refers to, though?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=C25K

I dont see why when kata are brought up its always karate kata rather than the two man kata you see in Japanese arts. I guess its what people are familiar with.

Karate kata in general seem to be more a hold on from a previous era than a vital part of the system. and at least in the karate Ive seen they seem to be a poor starting point for a discussion of kata. judo or kendo kata, or even iaido kata might be a better starting point.

>>844486

Yeah, but karate shares its concept of kata with tkd and kung fu.

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>>808365

>Its most known, faster, exciting.

>It transfers to self defense / melee weapons better.

>You start standing in MMA.

>You commit to much in grappling, and DON'T learn how to take strikes.
Which even the most stupid idiot will strike with a punch or a bat.

>>844598
True and thought they share the term, the Chinese model kata tend to be structured quite differently that Japanese ones.

Its almost unfair to lump the two together

>>844619

The Chinese method of training forms was imported wholesale into Okinawan karate, which is what we're talking about. "Japanese" karate is just Okinawan karate brought to Honshu, and TKD is just Honshu karate brought to Korea. The all do forms the same lame way we're talking about.

Bringing up judo kata is the red herring.

>>844622
My understanding is that the conversation was on kata in general, and in fairness most people lump the two together

>>844623

Yeah, but I'm a kyokushin offshoot guy arguing with a shotokan guy so I think we were mostly on the subject of unarmed striking choreography performed solo.

While judo and the Japanese sword arts are popular, they're dwarfed by the sheer mass of karate, tkd, and kf practitioners, so most people are probably more familiar with our usage.

The word in Japanese is nothing special though.

>>844624
Well no, if I remember by kanji it just means form. I hope it did not sound like I was implying otherwise. I would think most people would at least know about judo kata though

>>844625

It's even simpler. It's just like "way of doing" whatever. Just a regular, everyday word.

I'll admit I didn't even realize judo kata were different until I started judo about four years into my ma hobby. Before that I didn't know how a grappling kata could work, but I had hilarious mental images.

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>>844646
Kata, isn't really a huge component of judo unless you really want it to be. I've only had to memorize 2 katas, both times it was for my black belt promotion.

>>807644
anyone here learn effective CMA?
I've started learning wing chun
the teacher says that you always see wing chun people losing because they aren't taught properly. i.e. 99% of what is taught as wing chun is, not necessarily rubbish, but not robust.

he SEEMS to know what he's talking about

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Are there any Michiganbros that can point me to a good gym for muay thai?
Also how in shape do I need to be to start it?

>>844969

Wing Chun is based on a number of principles other martial arts don't have. If those are such great ideas, shouldn't they have been independently invented several times by now?

Also the teacher is setting up a No True Scotsman. Every time Chun loses, it's not real chun. Because chun looks like winning. If he isn't personally a good fighter with a verifiable record or isn't training students who are, you have your answer.

>>844969
>the teacher says that you always see wing chun people losing because they aren't taught properly
He's right.
For a large majority of people, raw reaction time isn't enough.
People learn technique, and learn how to apply technique, but some people just don't have the mental capacity to apply technique effectively a majority of the time without reflexes.
One of the most efficient ways to build and develop reflexes that work under the pressure of fighting is by sparring.

tl;dr
Most Wing Chun doesn't have enough sparring.

>>845080
>Also the teacher is setting up a No True Scotsman. Every time Chun loses, it's not real chun.
We don't have enough evidence to know what the teacher is claiming.
You're making assumptions.

>If he isn't personally a good fighter with a verifiable record or isn't training students who are
Did you fail high school science?
Correlation does not imply causation.

>>844486
Nearly every old Japanese and okinawan karatekas/masters agree that `where there are no basics, there is no karate` with kata being counted along with the other two basics Kihon and Kumite. It is indeed a vital part of the system

>>845312
Even most Okinawan karate has changed radically in the last century and very few resemble the original Te form. In early karate and Te the kata were almost certainly integrated with every other aspect (ie there was no major difference between kumite and kata in movement). I'm not a karate guy but I dont know of many groups that train like that.

>>844224
In the shots in sparing the stances are still there both fighters drop down in horse several times especially when returning to kamae, there is even a chili Zulu thrown in from zenkutsu . Yes the majority of the fight is bereft of some stances but a couple of stances and the concepts behind them are present as they are in all Karate sparring. Also bouncing on your toes is stupid and does fuck all. staying on your toes is one thing, but don`t bounce. If your going to showcase sparring, point sparring at that, use bareknuckle point sparring, it's point sparring is supposed to be and there was a lot of it around the 70s/80s and exact stances are a lot more prominent and can be clearly seen. Post in from you phone now so I'll add video later

>>845305
>One of the most efficient ways to build and develop reflexes that work under the pressure of fighting is by sparring.
Sparring not only helps develop reflexes, but also reaction time.

>>845359
Yakusoku kumite looks quite similar to what you have suggested. I would agree with the intermingling, but there also was clear distinction. Kats such as kusanku, Susan and superior are all differinciated in the past and certainly as far back as the time of the man known as Go Kenki

>>845359
>>845386
*Seisan and Suparinpei

>>845367
*Choku Zuki

>>845386
Of note as well the that Kusankun is theorized to be the man who was the procurer/teacher and progenitor of the the name of the form of Kata Kusanku

>>845305
>>845379
Sparring also helps develop the very basics of timing.

>>845367

They briefly dropped into a symmetrical stance, but it was more upright, their weight was on their toes, and they were side-on to their opponent. That doesn't much resemble the kata/kihon horse. You're experiencing pareidolioa if you're seeing kata elements in that match.

And nobody gives a fuck what it looked like in the 70s. It's 2015 and that video is representative of the majority of Shotokan now.

>>845305

Your first pull quote is what the teacher is claiming. It's right there. You copied and pasted it.

Your agreement with it doesn't make it not the fallacy I said it was.

>>845305

You really believe that last line you typed? There's no value at all in looking at a teacher's track record?

You're an idiot.

>>845560
gr8 b8 m8

>>845568

Whatever you think you just said, you said it wrong.

>>845550
Bareknuckle sparring is also done today just like full contact bare knuckle is. In the bareknuckle parring they did/do you can clearly see well placed stances, they are the exact ones first introduced,practiced and perfected in forms. And
>It's 2015
literally meme tier, by that note none of what karate looked like in the ancient past mattered either right, we should just throw out the bubishi and the Pechin warriors were a bunch of dumbasses that didnt know what they were doing with Karate as well as the forms therein, Right? Just because it's slightly esoteric, old, and takes a little bit of study to understand it's a waste right? Even when it's been proven to work and serve a purpose. That video is a representation of watered down padded point sparring that makes done by the WTF that makes people who watch it think all Karate (even when Shotokan spars full contact as my school did, sparring is a lame ass game of tag) . I don't care if is the WTF, mcdojoing and shit sparring is something even they do. Femenisms wife spread too and every one knows that a crock of shit. same for sparring of that caliber, if it's not full contact/bareknuckle they need to start nutting up or get the fuck out, and that goes for any style.

>>845615

Show me the perfect form bareknuckle full contact sparring you're talking about.

Also, you're teaching granny to suck eggs getting up on your soapbox about full contact.

-SG

PS: what was the feminism line about? You have MRA Tourette's or something?

>>845627
Looked for it on my phone not yielding it it's Bern on YT for a bit now shouldn't have been taken down, not near a PC now but I'll post it when I find it. The femenism bit was an example of something commonly held to be true that's bullshit, like the wage gap, etc. Most people commonly think padded `tag` point sparring is all there is to karate (,especially styles that aren't Kyokushin, Eshin,etc and. nothing else serious exists. Even when those styles have and do spar bareknuckle/ full contact
-LDz

>>845677

Padded tag is the majority of non-kyo karate. If all I know is that somebody plays karate I can guess he plays padded tag and be right most of the time.

As for the rest I don't discuss politics with children.

>>845677
*Also I meant for the type of sparring to be bareknuckle point sparring if I did not include that. Contestants used to break ribs and fingers from what some people think is `tag`
-LD

>>845681
4 Chan's + my keypad is fucking up on my phone and ad hominems Invalidate your arguments

>>845705

I prefer to think they add spice.

Since this is not a formal debate you can't invoke rules anyway.

>>845732
>Not a `formal`debate, but still a debate
>can't invoke rules
pick one. rules are a foundation of debate/argumentation, whether formal or not

>>845736

No they're not. Shitdick.

See? We're arguing and I acknowledge no rules. You don't like it? Sit and spin.

Or find all those videos you claim are out there.

:-P

MMA or Leung Ting Wing Tsun Kuen? Im 5th grade on LTWT but im afraid after 5-7years i still will be unable to fight. And that prices...

Kyokushinfag here, I've been watching a lot of videos of muay thai/boxing lately and I noticed most of the time when they were punching to the body they were dropping levels (bending knees to get lower instead of punching downwards slightly). What are the pro/cons of this? I've only occasionally seen people do this in knockdown karate. Also I noticed they only drop levels to throw a single body punch then they retreat; not a whole combination. Any information on dropping levels for body punches are welcome, this is foreign to me and I'm trying to learn more about it.

>>845772
>What are the pro/cons of this?

pro: more power.
con: makes it more difficult to check leg kicks and or move around

>>845762
If you start MMA, you can use your Wing Chun in MMA like Lyoto Machida used his Karate in MMA, and show people that Wing Chun works in MMA like Karate works in MMA.

>>845743
Say whatever you want. By stooping so low you concede defeat, while adding nothing of substance. And especially since you did so, I have no obligation to look up anything, I've done more than enough by even elaborating on the way of bareknuckle point sparring at this point. You refuse to attempt and understanding of forms, went with a logical fallacy instead of adding anythingof vvalue and now prove you don't know to debate or argue properly, let alone know the rules of having an informed discussion. For someone who claims they don't engage children you/ sure are arguing like one. Guess I have have another reason for bringing up femenism seeing as you have the critical thinking of a femenist/SWJ as well. Your out of hand dismissal of forms and their effectiveness or usefullness and any line of thought regarding such showcases such a low level of critical thinking

>>845797
This. There is the example of that guy on YT who used capoiera in MMA and is trying to make a name for himself by incorporating the style. It can work, it takes hard work and time, but it can be done

>>845881

I don't know if this is good advice..I'd say it's possible to make WC work, but for everyone who made it work there's hundreds of people who can't fight for shit. IMHO it's just bad advise to do put so much effort into something exotic to make it possibly work when there's so much stuff that works faster and more reliable..

>>845874

I've spent years doing forms and achieved high rank in form-heavy styles. I'm telling you from a position of experience and reflection that all the thousands of hours I have spent doing forms have been wasted.

You aren't ready to accept that and the cognitive dissonance is forcing you to believe that forms must actually have value.

>>846078
>I've spent years doing forms and achieved high rank in form-heavy styles. I'm telling you from a position of experience and reflection that all the thousands of hours I have spent doing forms have been wasted.You aren't ready to accept that
I do accept that. I accept you have dislike/indifference to forms and have found they do not work for you personally. If something else/another style did better you are more than free to do that
>and the cognitive dissonance is forcing you to believe that forms must actually have value.
>cognitive dissonance
Yes, I'm sure that and not forms being a full and important part of martial arts history and development along with nearly every style having at least some type of form or solo pattern in it as well, as well as my own independent study(as well as the plethora of martial studies done by others longer than either you or I have been alive) and practice of them along with my other training, but yes surely it must be cognitive dissonance that and not all of the other legitimate evidence for forms and their value that led me to such a conclusion

>>846078
>>846118
>What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
>-Corinthians 14:36
Having some bad experiences personally with forms and finding out they weren't for you now makes you the arbiter of whether they work or not with, even with all evidence stating they do?

>>846118

What evidence? More people are doing forms than ever before in human history. How is that working out for them?

>>846135
>What evidence
>Discounting every martial art has forms and solo patterns in some way
>the warriors and martial artists who were otherwise responsible for developing various martial saw fit to include them, keep them and transmit them, this being one of the major reasons we still have and practiced them
>what evidence
I listed more in my previous posts, if you don't believe in any evidence for the value of forms, you are just being willfully if not blatantly ignorant

>>846135
>>846281
It's also up to people who do the forms to decide if they want to do them / "what they want out of them individually. if theydon't like them they don't have to do them But forms work and anyone who claims they don't are wrong and will always be wrong no matter whatever dislike or butt hurt they're harboring about them