How exactly does hitting your stomach with a medicine ball toughen

>>755022
>There aren't any muscles there

Lol wut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB7gnB31NnI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a86cQobU-n4

In summary, microractures to the bones heal back stronger, Wolff's Law.
More signals of pain sent to the brain, the less it's processed over time, so more pain tolerance.

>>755026
IIRC microfractures cause the bone to heal back more dense, but the side-effect is that it is also more brittle.

What they still didn't explain is why he didn't suffer testicular trauma.

>>755022
>no muscles in your stomach

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Oh good. I was about to open a similar thread.

What I want to know is how to increase durability in the hands.
Generally axial loading seems the way to go. Though I am not sure if other methods might also work.
>pic related; we keep talking shit about it, but this dude has freaking monster hands

Or are we just doomed to endless fist-/finger-pushups?

>>755071
I don't think you know what axial loading means.
Protip: it's not hitting things.

>>755050
Balls of steel

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>>755077
Read again, stickpile. My point was that while the assumption is, that hitting shit shouldn't work and axial loading being the only "safe" way to increase durability, it is clearly working for a lot of people. Goju-faggots being one of the few who take that shit seriously (without magical TCM herb BS). So I feel like we are over-generalizing and perhaps there is something other than pain tolerance going on there.

All I want to know is if there is some solid science on anything else than axial loading.

>>755086
first of all you need to stop hitting a bag with gloves all the time.
second, here is a fun game to play. Find someone that conditions their fists, and then clash punches together. You will quickly understand what the differences between a hardened fist and a regular one are.

>>755086
So what do you mean by axial loading? What are you actually proposing?

Weight lifting for the hands and fingers?

And what do those Goju guys do in that regard?

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>>755086
>Bane

>>755022
The key thing is breath control. Body shots go a lot easier if you keep your torso tight and breath properly. Getting hit in the stomach can throw this off.

Practice with medicine balls, etc. helps keep your breathing steady, and prevents the follow up blow from being awful.

The key thing is technique.
By flexing your abdominal muscles, you make your abdominal muscles more dense, so when you get hit in your abdominal muscles, more muscle absorbs the force rather than your organs.

>>755107

They beat on shit. Their skin is callused and they're used to hitting stuff and they think their bones are stronger because bro science.

>>755127
They also develop crippling arthritis and can't close their hand. Morio being a prime example.

Shit is retarded. All you're doing is repeatedly damaging the ligaments and cartilage. I'm sure your edgy aspirations are worth being incapable of holding a pen when you're 50 though.

>>755127
the point is bone hardness, you are increasing density and hardness.

>>755050
Can you do shit to counteract the brittleness? I don't know how the fuck you would because I'm retarded, but that's why I'm asking.

>>755149
density is the answer. Consider a muay thai fighter with conditioned shins kicking against someone that did not condition their shins. who's leg is going to break first do you think?

>>755150
The one with less brittled and cracked shins and knows how to kick and check better.

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Does shin conditioning lead to arthritis?

>>755152
listen, conditioning is a well accepted and essential part of any real martial artists training. You are wrong if you say otherwise, there is no discussion here.
did you know hammers are brittle tempered steel? crazy how you see hammers shatter soft nails all the time.

hardness doesn't mean it's weaker, it means it doesn't flex as much, it also means it has crushing power and will cause softer things to bend and break.

>>755154
The shin is a bone not a joint. Aside from which a banana "tree" isn't actually a tree. It's a cellulose stalk surrounded by leaves. It's around as hard as a heavy bag.

>>755157
>listen, conditioning is a well accepted and essential part of any real martial artists training.
Why'd you bring up Muay Thai if you don't think Muay Thai is real martial arts training?

>>755159
it is, and they condition like crazy

>>755160
Nope. Muay Thai fighters learn how to check, and they learn how to kick. They don't waste time on nonsense about making your bones harder.

>>755162
someone has never kicked a thai bag. Its ok, just try something before you talk about it.

>>755162
>they learn how to kick.
Not really.
They learn 2 kicks, maybe 5 at most; typically, anyway.

>>755163
I work on a Thai bag every day. They don't harden your shin bone. They just teach you what it's like kicking against some feedback.

>>755166
>They don't harden your shin bone.
Have you systematically measured the density of your shinbones before practicing, and then systematically measured the density of your shinbones afterwards?

>>755166
and what are thai bags filled with? sand
and what is sand used for? bone conditioning
you condition your hands with sand by punching into a pot full of it
you condition your legs by packing it into a bag and kicking it. that is literally the whole point of putting sand in them otherwise you just use cloth if you want feedback like in a standard heavy bag.
the purpose if the thai bag is the conditioning aspect of it.
I don't know what kind of people you are kicking that densely packed sand is a good analogue for feedback

>>755176
>and what are thai bags filled with? sand
>and what is sand used for?
Taco meat.
You make a taco with sand by wrapping a tortilla around it.
You make a Taco del Thai by packing it into a bag and eating it. that is literally the whole point of putting sand in them otherwise you just use cloth if you want feedback like in a standard heavy bag.
the purpose if the thai bag is the taco aspect of it.

>>755185
and this gentlemen, is what we call "going full retard"

>>755162
why would somebody as stupid as you come here?

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>>755200
People of all intelligence are welcome here, friend.

>>755170

Has anyone ever done this?

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>>755107
>what is axial loading
Literally lifting heavy shit.
>Weight lifting for hands/fingers
>what is a fist push-up

>what do goju guys do
They do both. Perhaps the moderately heavy "lifting" is enough to accommodate for it. That and the fact that they also train grip/wrist strength like motherfuckers, which presumably would also increase ligament durability.

>>755128
>[Citation Needed]
Morio's hands are perfectly fine, apart from looking horrible.
And I've never heard of any experienced karateka having to quit on grounds of long-term-hand-reckage.
If anything, I've only ever heard of (relative) beginners trying to do the same shit as their seniors and fucking up.

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>lower bone density increases fracture risk
Marshall D, Johnell O, Wedel H. Meta-analysis of how well measures of bone mineral density predict occurrence of osteoporotic fractures. BMJ 1996;312:1254-9

>(high) impact sports increase bone density (better than low impact or loading)
Stewart, A. D., and Hannan, J. (2000). Total and regional bone density in male runners, cyclists, and controls. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., 32(8), 1373–1377.

Bilanin, J., Blanchard, M., & Russek-Cohen, E. (1989). Lower vertebral bone density in male long distance runners. Med Sci Sports Exerc., 21, 66-70.

Chilibeck, P., Sale, D., & Webber, C. (1995). Exercise and bone mineral density. Sports Medicine, 19, 103-122.

Duncan, C. S., Blimkie, C., Cowell, C.T., Burke, S., Briody, J.N., & Howman-Giles, R. (2002). Bone mineral density (BMD) in adolescent female athletes: relationship to exercise type and muscle strength. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., 34(2), 286–294, 2002.

Fuchs, R., Bauer, J., & Snow, C.(2001) Jumping improves hip and lumbar spine bone mass in prepubescent children: A randomized controlled trial. J. Bone Miner. Res., 16,148–156.

Helge, E. W., & kanstrup, I.L., (2002).. Bone density in female elite gymnasts: impact of muscle strength and sex hormones. Med. Sci.Sports Exerc., 34(1), 174–180.

Turner, C.H., & Robling, A.G. (2003) Designing exercise regimens to increase bone strength. Exerc. Sport Sci. Rev., 31(1), 45–50.

>tl;dr: For tougher hands/arms, you need higher bone density. The best way to achieve this is through a combination of >70%1RM weight training and dynamic impact-force training on the select area. Both imply progressive overload, good diet and not being a fucking idiot by overdoing it, like most butthurt plebs here are probably doing it.

>>755176
>and what are thai bags filled with? sand
and what is sand used for? bone conditioning

No you mong I work at some really old gym that still have those 70's punching bag that are filled with sand. They didn'tvput sand for conditioning purposes, it's just a cheaper material to fill heavybags back in the days.

>>755420
Stop being a chud, you know perfectly well the point of a thai bag is the hardness. You even design work outs based on kicking different areas of the bag based on hardness since the bottom is harder than the top due to settled sand.

>>755429
The gym I'm at is boxing. It doesn't matter if the bag is filled with sand or w/e. All heavy bags are suppose to be hard to get used to hitting hard parts of the body. Nobody goes around saying heavybags are for bone conditioning other than ching chong magic man.

>>755437
>Nobody goes around saying heavybags are for bone conditioning
seriously, take one muay thai class

>>755415

I'm going to read all this shit to simply reinforce that you don't know the difference between strength, hardness, density, and mass, ain't I?

>>755659
No, you are gonna attempt to read all of that because you are too stupid to understand that science doesn't give a fuck about your broscience dictionary.
High-impact exercises and dynamic loading exercises (in high frequencies i.e. lifting) in >70% 1RM range induce bone matrix deformation and subsequent osteogenesis. This increase in bone mineral density significantly decreases risk of fracture/tearing (yes, you can tear a bone).
Unless you have some form of degenerative/genetic condition (or severe underuse/malnourishment), the only significant variation between one bone and the other is BMD.

Now obviously another concern could be injury to ligaments or joints. For all intents and purposes, ligaments pretty much increase durability just like muscle tissue, for obvious reasons. Progressive overload and not overstretching. The latter includes proper technique. The higher your structural integrity (i.e. how straight you can have your wrist when punching someone) will directly decrease stress on ligaments.
Pretty much the same goes for joints (or rather capsules). Again, impact forces are best for increasing synovial fluid, which is the main health concern. (Both for lubrication and shock absorption.) And again, training should be in moderation.

You faggots have to stop thinking of the body like some delicate machine, which can be thrown out of equilibrium any second now.
If the question is about physically adapting to something, nine times out of ten the answer is "(reasonable) progressive overload, good diet and enough sleep". The only real limiting factors are past injuries, disease, genetic potential or growing old before you reached it.

Now can we stop acting as though any of this was particularly complex?

No. Do a lot of half crunches.

>>755415

But runners are pounding the pavement for several hours a week. You're not doing that with your strikes. Also, roundhouse kicks aren't applying axial stress.

The big issue is that you think because you INTEND to have a certain effect, it must follow that you ARE having a certain effect.

>>755050
From the doc, it looks like he subconsciously retracts his balls into his pelvis to mitigate the damage, and he's conditioned himself to not release pain hormones when that area is struck

Aside from some postural changes and learning to breath out when getting struck all you can do is learn to take the pain and impact. Those guys you see get hit and act like they were not hit are in pain, but they are used to it so for them it's not big deal.