/mag/ martial arts general

>>3096975
>>3096975

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>>3096915
>Previous >>3080225 →
>Find an MMA Gym in the USA:http://www.findmmagym.com/
>Styles of fighting:
>http://www.ufc.com/discover/fighter/martialArtsStyles
>BlackBeltWiki, great source of info, trivia and help:
>http://www.blackbeltwiki.com/
>Lifting for MMA:
>http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/how-to-train-strength-and-conditioning-for-mma
>Beware the MCDOJOS:
>http://mcdojo-faq.tripod.com
>WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN A MARTIAL ARTS GYM:
>•Physically conditioned, fit participants
>•Trainer with certified professional record and a training history with at least one athlete who competes successfully
>•Sparring, "aliveness" in training
>•At least one participant competes at amateur or professional level
>•Physical conditioning part of training
>WHAT TO BE WARY OF:
>•Fat, physically subpar students and instructor
>•Graduation fees (e.g. "pay $200 and advance to next belt extra quick!")
>•No proven athletes training there
>•No sparring, moves shown are choreographed (e.g. "the attacker does this, then I do this, then you do this...")
>•Cult-like atmosphere
>•No physical conditioning
>>YOUTUBE CHANNELS ON FIGHTING
>https://www.youtube.com/user/LawrenceKenshin
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVfmHpXONv-LVACBV68tq5Q
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl3zMJRgefZm7ELHkIp-xDA
>https://www.youtube.com/user/GracieBreakdown
>https://www.youtube.com/user/StephanKesting
>https://www.youtube.com/user/theKravMagaTraining
>https://www.youtube.com/user/CombatSportsTapes

>>3096915
What are the best workouts for Judo? Ive been focusing on pull/grip exercises is that good?

>>3097206
Power cleans for explosive strength

>>3097206
Imo I'd just stick to stronglifts for dat der functional strength

Joe Rogan is anonymously considered to have good opinions right?

>>3097823
Who?

>>3097823
bro
*adjusts microphone*
like bro
*adjusts microphone*
like are you serious bro?
*adjusts microphone
like
*adjusts microphone*
bro
*adjusts microphone*
are you serious right now?

box, kickbox, muay thai or mma?
done few months kickboxing years ago, liked it.

Speaking of rogan, what's the point of all this padding if weedman can still send you to the next life this easily? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_nyuuuJjh0

Is London Shootfighters considered a good gym?

>>3098147
Only talking about fighting of course

>>3098177
I would have expected him to get disqualified for hurting the opponent, isn't that the whole point of point-sparring?

>>3098224
It was full-contact

>>3097823
Agree or disagree with him, he is still interesting and entertaining

>>3097823
he's purple pilled as fuck. He doesn't deny the truth when it's in front of him, and he wants to be enlightened, however his own personal biases get in the way of him being as objective as he thinks he is.

>I had a bad experience with tkd therefore tkd is universally shitty
>I had a good experience with bjj therefore bjj is universally wonderful

>>3096915
>WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN A MARTIAL ARTS GYM:
be unbiased and objective to see anything at all in the first place
- the coaches are knowledgeable
- the coaches are able to evaluate students objectively
- the coaches can use their knowledge to solve problems and answer questions logically
- the physical conditioning methods follow scientifically valid facts
- in turn, people get better, people have fun, because of the fact that that's what makes a good gym, not despite that fact

>>3099970
I admittedly do not wrestle, but I have black and purple belts in judo and bjj. This technique sequence seems structurally slow where 'tori' does four things after the shot attempt, while 'uke' just stands there and takes it. It looks like grappling's version of the guy who throws the single reverse punch and holds it in the air while he eats a ten hit combo.

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>>3100152
I gotta disagree personally
judo nidan and HS wrestling coach here

I'll say straight up the readjustment of the foot work for ogoshi/hip toss was distracting although it may help some people see better then pivot step.

However the core concept of the combo is following Cejudo's underhook, he transfers his single shot, the outside grip of it and leads into an underhook for the hip toss.
So its not like a really like chain its 2 moves, with one core concept, the underhook as the key that connects the two

This is a practical combo and actually was something me and several other coaches were talking about fighters like Damian Maia need to incorporate into their own gameplans.

Right now there is a focus in single leg, and then chaining it into a half leg sweep, back take, leg ride.

But as more people defend the single, and develop better overhooks the next progression would be tori using their underhook for upper body throws.

>>3100173
I'm not going to try to dispute your wrestling knowledge, but to me it does not look like orange makes a legit attempt to defend the single. I still see such a long gap I time (along with a tactile tell in the form of tori moving his hand from thigh to across the waist), that I feel as though I'd spin in and hit a seioi as he is coming up from his knee. With the position his legs are in from shooting and having his forward motion halted entirely, its such a long motion to get back on that foot.

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>>3100658
The combo of hitting a single to hip toss is rather common.

The major defensive play that uke/orange is doing is stepping back and using an overhook/whizzer. The overhook grip is being obstructed in the webm>>3099970


You can see this same combo verbally explained here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cc7tyjGLx0

and what i'm typing will be redundant. However as uke/orange overhooks and fights Cejudo/toris underhook and leans into him to prevent and further drive, this leads to an window of opportunity where tori can use the forward pressure and the space provided by uke leaning forward and cutting the hips and hitting ogoshi.

Uke nor you doesn't have a viable window to hit a shoulder throw/seoi as tori comes up, because the main grip of defender is having that whizzer/overhook. Letting go of that grip would take to long to reach the shoulders and let tori get double underhook or a body lock.

the only viable path to turn the defensive play of whizzer into offense would either uke circling with his whizzer to take the back, uchi mata or block the hips/check the hips and counter into a suplex/ura nage

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Can you learn a martial art while also being pretty autistic? I have no genuine interest in making friends is what I mean. I assume that's a recipe for disaster if I were to try learning martial arts. I am a fit dude but running and lifting requires 0 socializing yknow.

>>3100858
I know a guy who's autistic and trains in martial arts. There are also a few fighters who are suspected of being aspies.

More egregious problems would be stuff like being an asshole, having poor body hygiene, not following rules, etc. If you just mean you're awkward at socializing, you should be fine.

I need a style to fight people bigger and stronger than me (5'7" 140 lbs), don't like the feeling of being helpless if someone bigger tried picking a fight. I strongly prefer striking but I realize the importance of grappling too. I used to do muay thai but that was limited training years ago though I still use my heavy bag from time to time.

What style translates best to a skirmish? I was thinking of a boxing gym but there's too many limitations and no grappling, I have seen enough fights to know it almost always ends in a grappling match. No flashy moves, I want something that looks and sounds intimidating. Krav Maga? Kyokushin?

>>3100881
Boxing with tall sparring partners so you're used to hitting high, judo with big guys if possible for the same reason. Muay thai is good too though, especially the clinch, as clinching is the closest to "multiple attacker defense" other than a gun. Wrestling is good, but good luck finding a place outside of school. Bjj can bretty good, but a lot of places only do "enough" standup and its usually not cheap. Kyo is cool, only downside is the no headpunches in comps (there are still dudes that train them tho) but it has offshoots that do have them. It is usually pretty stand and bang though. Not to say its not technical, and there are some pretty long range kyo guys, but it'd be up to you as someone worried about bigger people, whether you want to be used to occasionally just tanking hits.
>tl;dr probably muay thai or boxing, and judo, if russian do combat sambo, if japanese do kudo

>>3100892

Yeah I was probably gonna go with muay thai again, but I want to supplement it with something else focused on grappling. I also considered what you mentioned on difficulty in finding a wrestling place. I like sambo but there's no places for that anywhere near here. So I think I'll start with muay thai and latter add BJJ/judo. Thanks frienderino

The only martial arts place in town is the one I went to for a couple months when I was 15. I'm 23 now. They KICKED my ASS badly consistently I got bloody noses etc. That was an MMA class. I'm pondering if I dare try my luck at this establishment again years later. It seems kinda insane how ruthless they were towards a beginner manlet dyel. They didn't even teach me how to punch properly etc they just had me full on spar with full grown adults who all know their shit and expected me to figure it out through osmosis. Is martial arts supposed to be like that? It seems like they didn't want to accommodate me the new kid. Not trying to sound like a pussy but I feel I should've been taught technique anything besides just making me full on spar with no training wheels or training.

>>3100881
Matsubayashi-ryu

For something serious, sanshou
Maybe japanese jiu-jitsu and add the striking

>>3100881
>Striking
Muay Thai. When i worked as a bouncer, our tiniest guy was your size but a muay thai expert, he was scarier than our 6' 4" ogre.

>Grappling
I'd say Judo, a lot of throws are easier if you are smaller than your opponent.

>>3101109
I would have thought that generally you should be taught how to do something before being expected to do it.
>>3101555
Is Muay Thai better than American-style kickboxing?

>>3101928
Id say so. If you are fighting bareknuckle, elbows > fists (the face is much harder than a knuckle, palm strikes are even preferred), knees are fucking killer, and clenching is important.

>>3100827
>The major defensive play that uke/orange is doing is stepping back and using an overhook/whizzer. The overhook grip is being obstructed
Finally someone who got the basics in. Thank you

>>3098211
Pricey but obviously worth it. British MMA is riddled with steroid motherfuckers above 70kg weight division so lets hope you arent above that.

>>3100881
Ernesto hoost style leg kicks will finish fights.

If there are multiple opponents they will expect leg kciks perfect opportunity to do a head kick.

Fights finished in 2 attacks.

>>3101949
But elbows are short range, how can you land them?

>>3102090
I have personally determined the hook to be a shitty archaic punch that needs to go away
if you are in hook range, you are in elbow range, and elbows are much stronger.
elbows, forearm strike, ridge hand, all superior choices to a hook

>>3100827
The youtube link demonstrates it much more effectively. The coach shoots in deep enough to cut off the space I would use to spin in for the seioi, nor does he take excessive foot movement to get into place for the throw. I'll chalk it up to an awkward demonstration.

Just to clarify, when I talk about the seioi, I mean right arm goes to the armpit. The overbook is not entirely released.

>>3101555
>I'd say Judo, a lot of throws are easier if you are smaller than your opponent.

An oft repeated misconception. Judo techniques usually benefit the shorter guy, but shorter does not mean smaller

>>3102090
I mainly brought them to the ground than began raining elbows.

>>3102180
Smaller can mean shorter. Dont get into semantics bullshit

>>3102119
t. never been hooked

>>3102251
I'm not a scrub and keep my hands up so ya
your hands are a poor striking surface, of all the areas you use for striking, the hands are the worst one. Hands are for grabbing, not hitting

>>3100827
Going to play around with that, I like singles and harai goshi anyway.

>>3102280
I will fuck you up only using hooks. Whr do you live fuckboy.

>>3102244
Don't get stupid, m8. It's that retarded button that makes people think power doesn't matter. Weight classes exist fit good reason.

real question asp, is kung fu a meme martial art?

i want to sign up for a course where i live, nothing too serious, generally to stay fit-positive shit, nothing profesionall or going into MMA or some other crap, merely wondering if kung-fu really works as a martial art that you could defend yourself with or not, you never really see any MMA fighter or so being trained in kung-fu, is it just because it's ineffective or what?

>>3102731
I mean, if all you're going to do is hook and you tell me that ahead of time I don't know how you could possibly hope to win

>>3102753
kung fu as far as I can tell is mostly for weapon fighting
those popular animal forms people know about have always been performance art intended to be used as demonstrations to earn money for the temples

>>3102753
chuan fa practitioner here. kung fu is probably the most hit or miss martial art out there. the good places are great and the bad places are horrific cult worshiping full compliance meme tier. if you have found a place that looks good as per the op, sit in on a class and then try a trial class.

>>3102759
>>3102785

tai chi shit then? I'm completely green as far as martial arts are concerned but wanted to pick up something related to china, as i'm learning mandarian now

there was also this wing chun stuff, it's different to kung fu or tai chi or something? really any kind of insight will be appreciated

>>3102809
don't worry about what style to choose, look at what is available in your area

>>3102809
nothing wrong with tai chi. It's just basically yoga

>>3102831
there's "tai chi" of just forms and sensitivity training, but a proper taichi chuan school will have conditioning and sparring.

so the bottom line is I can either go to the kung fu classes or wing chun classes and it will be pretty much the same as long as there's sparring involved and not just meme yoga tier shit? they cost roughly the same where i live

>>3102897
there will be some differences, especially with what style(s) the kung fu place offers. it's just flavour however and again i would suggest sitting in on each and seeing which you prefer.

alright cheers guys, think i'll give both those schools a shot then and see how it works

>>3102754
You already ducked the fight so I guess I win.

>>3102952
I don't think explaining to you why you can't possibly win is ducking the fight

>>3102752
What are you even trying to say here?

>born an ectomorph
>can never get huge
Is there a martial art that skinny fucks who can't gain muscle can be good at?

>>3103458
>relying on pseudoscience

>>3103458
>what are weightclasses

I want to start boxing but I wear glasses/contacts

Should I leave my contacts put for training? I think my visions probably good enough for sparring but it's still pretty bad.

>>3099306
He was a state champion in tae kwon do, I think is opinion on it is probably valid.

>>3103791
Are you fucking retard or something? At best, your contacts will drop, and nobody will give a shit about where they are. At worst, they will be pushed into your eye socket, which is usually a pain in the ass. Nothing really troublesome, as in breaking and the shards perforating your eyeballs, but still won't be a pleasant experience.

>>3103446
My new phone has a very aggressive autocorrect and word prediction. I thought it was funnier to just leave it as the phone decided

>movie is called southpaw
>fights orthodox

>>3104016
I had to disable mine, it was fucking terrible. Fair enough.

>>3102864
"""""sparring"""""

>>3104438
a good school will have sanda. i know of one taichi chuan that has frequent sparring personally, i'm sure there are others out there.

I've broken my goddamn jaw tonight. The match was radical but fuck me man, I'm really not trying to go to the hospital, should I though?

Are there any good yoga or stretching apps?
>>3104468
Go faget. Recover well so you can have more of those radical fucking matches.

>>3104469
how do you know its broken if you didnt go to hospital

go if you cant chew

>>3102753
All Chinese Martial Arts are ineffective bullshido except for some of the stuff they teach in sanda, and even that's done better by real kickboxing styles. If it's not in MMA, it's because it doesn't work in the real world and hasn't passed the live fire test of competition. This isn't even up for debate anymore for fuck's sake. You really think some faggot from a taekwondo strip mall place or mark taking krav maga lessons will ever beat a good boxer or nak muay? Ain't happening.

BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, and wrestling are the only safe bets. Judo and kyokushin karate are okay too if you find a good school but will never be as useful. Everything else is McDojo garbage and you're wasting your time and money learning nothing about how to fight and just embarrassing yourself in front of people who can.

Training on sand is so much fun. Moving is way harder because of the resistance and you feel so light afterwards. Kicking is way harder too.

>>3104736
I agree with you but you're wrong. Boxing is as much bullshido as kung fu. There isn't a single boxer in the world that could stand into the octagon and survive more than a minute.

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>>3104736
>implying

>>3104736
>If it's not in MMA, it's because it doesn't work in the real world and hasn't passed the live fire test of competition
It can also mean that it just doesn't have enough practitioners who tried. Tae kwan do has plenty of mma fighters simply because of its sheer numbers, eventually someone who has an innate ability ends up representing it.

>>3104762
Boxing is just incomplete as an art 2bh, but there's nothing wrong with or fake about learning to hook people in the gabber

>>3104824
true but if you lower your face in a real fight like you do in boxing in order to avoid hits you're going to get kneed and or kicked in the face.

>>3096915

Hey /asp/, I've need some advice.

Some years ago I started Judo and Kyokushin, but I had a lot of stuff going on (mostly job) and couldn't be consistent with my training. I had a lot of fun there, but the situation was not really satisfying, so a took a year off for some soul searching and training in my former style (a rather traditional martial art where I am mid/high ranked).

Now the traditional stuff is nice because of the people, and I want to keep it up for fun. But as a stand alone system it's not really challenging. So what should I do?

I thought about starting Judo and Kyokushin again, but I don't like that Kyokushin has no sparring with head punches. Muay Thai is only one club here and way too expensive. So should I learn boxing instead? I'm 31, which means in my country you are not allowed to get into the ring anymore (unlike in Kyokushin). But that's not that much of an issue for me, I think I could be happy with sparring only.

Also I'm not quite sure about Judo either. I think it's a great martial art, but the problem is I don't really fit in at the club. There are two groups:

Groups 1: mostly 20 y/o blackbelts
Groups 2: mostly 40+ Judoka, no sparring here

Being 31 and not taking Judo as my primary martial art (I'm a sucker for weapon stuff) I don't really feel at home here. With the youngsters, I am good enough to brawl them on the ground and win against anything up to blue belt. But I get wrecked in standup (tachi waza). A firend of mine tries to talk me into BJJ. I actually I like tachi waza, I'm just not that good at it. So what should I do?


>tl; dr
Recommend a 31-old martial arts fag that trains stupid weapon stuff what style/s to train for fun and self-defense:
Pick 1 (or 2) from: Boxing, Kyokushin, Judo, BJJ.


Sorry for being lengthy.

>>3104867
BJJ and Judo are pretty similar but bjj focuses more on the ground. As for being out of place it's all in your head

>>3104736
>Judo will never be as useful as bjj
Outside of sports it is far more useful.

>>3103458
just eat more

>>3104736
>guy who doesn't even train

>>3103458
I thought I was an ectomorph. Then I realized it's all bullshit, and I started eating more. Managed to hit BMI >25 with abs last year.

>>3105943
>Abs
>mattering

>>3105943
it isn't bullshit at all, bone structure and more importantly muscle composition are things that exist and can be measured through a biopsy

considerable hypertrophy through natural means is only attainable by a minority of the population
women can't do it because they lack testosterone levels
in men 60% of men are primarily composed of long muscle fibers, while only 40% are composed primarily of short muscle fibers

what that amounts to is only 20% of the human population has any hope of ever actually being in shape

>>3106044
Some people will have more difficulty than others, but to say 80% of humans can NEVER be in shape is loser speak.

>Oh, I don't want to put in the effort so I will blame it on muh genetics

>>3106044
That sounds really dumb? I am pretty sure almost anyone can gain muscle in the gym with proper routine and diet.

>>3106120
nah man, those are the hard numbers as per NASM

part of being a good trainer is being realistic and making sure your clients have realistic expectations as well. If you promise the world you might get more business, but if you have integrity you let people know how it is off the bat.
Everyone can exercise to be more fit and healthy, but only a minority have any kind of true athletic potential
>>3106144
everyone will gain some muscle from properly exercising, but there is a limit. Most people have an upper limit which is much lower than the "ideal" people often strive for. You can be lean and healthy, but you will never have that statuesque shredded body everyone is after unless you fall into that 20%

>>3105992
Technically overweight at low bf% then if that sounds better.

>>3106044
Tell you what, the book that launched the somatypes (which was in 1954, when science wasn't quite what it is today), mentioned that out of the thousands of subjects included in it, only a handful could be considered a true somatype. So anyone claiming to belong to a somatype is most likely wrong. Best case scenario somatypes are a scale rather than a type. Best case because the data may have been falsified, too.

Oh, and also I was the least explosive kid around, only good at cardio, which continued into adulthood when I started lifting. Sounds like long muscle fiber, right? I still equaled the national deadlift record in my weight class a few years later. You fail to take into account way too many factors.

>>3106167
You are moving the goal posts. Your original claim was that only 20% can ever be in shape. Now you are weaseling to "true athletic potential", whatever that vague spewage is supposed to mean.

>>3106248
Post pics, lard ass

>>3106257
I'm really not at all. When it comes to skill games, lanklets can do just fine, but when it comes to things that rely on physicality some people have it and some people don't and there's nothing you can do to change it

why is it that just a select few people can become professional athletes and millions who try will fail? it isn't intelligence, it isn't hard work, it's because some people just have better bodies and no amount of positive reassurance will ever change that.

becoming the fastest or the strongest man in the world and your ability to compete at elite levels was determined before you were born, generations ago when someone in your family decided to settle for a substandard partner to have a child with

Opinions on Ninjutsu? Please don't meme me

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>>3106873
im sorry, but you already meme'd yourself

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>>3106873
a black ops tool used in the great meme war

outside of memes there is no such thing as a ninja and there never was
for an ancient japanese fighting art, there sure seem to be a lot of middle aged white guys doing it with no japanese to be found, even in japan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsUYNPI3T2A

>>3106727
See, you've done it again. You went from "in shape" to "athletic potential" to "professional athlete." These things are not the same thing.

>>3106873
Even when it was a thing, it wasn't a martial art as much as it was espionage. If you wanna be a modern day ninja, then join the CIA

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>>3106938
Well probably if the club actively promotes itself as something that will make you a ninja its a meme, but clubs made in the spirit of what a ninja used to be that practice different forms of normal combat that can be seen in other disciplines in japan sounds good to me. To answer "why not join a normal club then?" - There are no decent looking clubs around me.

>>3104736
>If it's not in MMA, it's because it doesn't work in the real world and hasn't passed the live fire test of competition.
>Everything else is McDojo garbage and you're wasting your time and money learning nothing about how to fight and just embarrassing yourself in front of people who can.
No, it's because you can't just slap different rules,restrictions, gloves etc. on an art that's been fighting without them and expect it to do just as well, instantly, or at the same curve; as an art that's been fighting under them for far longer. MMA is nowhere near the end all be all of martial arts This the retardedly rehashing the "TMA's suck" meme.
>This isn't even up for debate anymore for fuck's sake.
Especially this. >>3105930 is right.

>>3103458
>Is there a martial art that skinny fucks who can't gain muscle can be good at?
Eat more-fu
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529694/#!po=57.9365
>http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/42/1/127
>https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>>3105943
>I thought I was an ectomorph. Then I realized it's all bullshit
Right.
>>3106044
>it isn't bullshit at all
It is.
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2009/02/im-hardgaining-ectomorph-and-stuart.html
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatotype_and_constitutional_psychology

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>>3097278
This

>>3106949
if you consider being not overweight in shape, then that's fine. But that isn't what it means to be in shape.

I've made a pretty clear distinction early on that you can be healthy, but you will never be athletic. Being in shape means you are athletic.

>>3107049
I'm more concerned with what the national academy of sports medicine says over wikipedia and a blog

>>3106968
CIA is full of cucks and SJWs

>>3106903
>dat pic
Well, that's a fairly good argument.

What's the best martial art for someone with very small hands / wrists?

I'm fairly muscular but my hands are fucking tiny. I imagine this would be a disadvantage in any striking art. Would it be a disadvantage in something like judo?

>>3101109
Yes, that is fucked.

>>3101109
They abused you imqho

>>3109982
>what martial art is best for my body type
I'm tired of this question.

Just do whatever martial art you like.

If you get good enough, you can compensate for whatever minor body issues you think you have as long as you're not seriously deformed.

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>>3106619
You better appreciate those five wasted minutes of my morning routine.

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Can I start Judo classes @6'3 290lbs?
Saw picrel and gave me some hope
Ofc I plan on losing weight as I get better

>>3104871

>As for being out of place it's all in your head

What the fuck? No, it's not.
I really gave my best to get into each of those Judo groups for two years, but it just won't work out.

Group one doesn't have any stand up randori, which is just plain wrong for Judo. Group two is nice but only kids.

I've heard many Judoka my age have the same problems: Judo is just too focused on youngsters, if you try to get into it later you can forget about it.

In Kyokushin they don't have this problem: You can just fight, no matter if you are 18 or 45, if you are fit enough and willing to get some beating then go get some.

Why is Judo so stupid here?


>>3104867

So obviously nobody can give a comment here?
I really can't figure out which is the right thing to do. But currently I think I'll move away from Judo and focus on either Boxing+Kyokushin or Boxing+BJJ.

I'd appreciate any comment that says something more than: "boxing is hitting with your hands, BJJ is ground fighting".


>>3110309

Dude, you look like you skipped leg day lately. Don't skip leg day.

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help

I am smol and need a new style in fighting. I do Muay Thai and I'm often relying too much on head movement, which I know isn't something I should do too much. My teammate actually asked me if I did boxing. I'm a southpaw and what I kept doing was I kept using my right to keep distance from my opponent. The trouble is, I barely got any hits in because I'm at a shorter range. Basically, I'm a shorter fighter fighting like a taller fighter.

I need some fighters (boxing, MMA, Muay Thai, anything), to study and get some ideas. Any recommendations? He doesn't exactly have to be short. If it helps, my best aspect is my footwork. Thanks

>>3110745
There's only stories of him but Chotoku Kyan was famous for being a little dude who kicked ass

>>3110731
>Dude, you look like you skipped leg day lately. Don't skip leg day.
Not in shape anymore, but I used to deadlift ~250kg and high bar squat 170kg, vastus medialis is showing etc. Leg day was never skipped, my calves just don't match up despite lots of calf raises.

I'll refrain from commenting on the boxing/kyokushin part as I only took a handful of classes in each, but concerning the Judo/BJJ thingy: if you have an okay background in Judo, consider BJJ but make sure you get in more standing work than average to avoid becoming a professional buttscooter - don't pull guard unless you really want to work on your guard, and even then consider just going for the takedown, then allow your partner to sweep you and work guard from there.

That said, I'm about the same age as you and train with black belts in their early twenties, but I'm basically a brown belt who hasn't bothered taking the shodan exam yet - started at 23. If the injury rate is okay for you when training with the 20y/o black belts, maybe sticking around until they age a few years might be worth it. Don't know how much of a fight they are giving you as it is though.

>>3110550
We have this 5'8 and 315lbs Judo cannonball training at our BJJ place, he's actually good. Throws people around - even the other Judoka and wrestlers training there - without abusing his weight. Saw him score an ippon on a retired pro MMA fighter last month. Go for it.

>>3110309
Height/weight? I really cant see this being high bmi.

>>3111012
1m82 at 80kg or 6'0 at 175lbs currently.

Cut down for my last competition and haven't put the weight back on, but I usually walk around somewhat heavier.

>>3111042
For athletes, if anything you are arguably underweight for your height (unless just some cardio bunny). You worked it up like you are some musclebound freak. Keep in mind average bmi is for normies.

>Deadlifting 550 looking like that
Doubt

>>3111063
All I said was BMI >25 at low bf%. Also, for shit and giggles I went through the 2012 and 2016 Judo Olympics -81kg division and looked up height on wikipedia when listed. Found 6 competitors below 1m80/5'11 (none made it through the preliminaries), with 1m80 more or less average. So by your definition most international top Judoka in my weight class are arguably underweight for athletes.
Tl;dr: not really.

>Doubt
Will see if I can dig up an old competition record, it's got proof of 235.

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>>3111409
>Picks one sport for athletes


If you do have proof of that, that's extremely impressive.

>>3111528
Let's take your picture as an example.

My BMI currently sits between 24 and 25 and I'm 'arguably underweight for an athlete' as you put it. Out of the 9 sports in the picture, 5 have a BMI similar to mine or lower, with only 4 - less than half - who may qualify as 'not arguably underweight' by your standards. Oh, also at least two of those groups, MLB and NFL, are notorious for being juiced to the gills. NHL is probably no better, but I know jack shit about NHL and doping use.

>>3111588
Eh you're right. I've been too involved in hockey, rugby, and football. Distorted my averages. Still though, claiming 6 feet and 175 pounds with visible abs as impressive. You made it sound like you were a bulky guy with abs.

>>3111629
>I've been too involved in hockey, rugby, and football.
Ah, that does explain a lot. Those fuckers are almost invariably massive.

I'll totally admit that /fit/ would probably call me DYEL - despite me being stronger and fitter than most of the board - while my normie friends generally consider me some sort of hulk. Different frame of reference etc.

>>3111661
I just have never seen somebody with that frame with that strength, thus the initial doubt. Anybody i've seen deadlift 500 pounds has been at least 220

>>3110745
How tall are you?

BMI is pretty bullshit
I had a BMI of 40 at 11% body fat because muh muscles

>>3111671
Go to a powerlifting meet, I've seen scrawny looking dudes lighter than me lift more than that. I'm a decent deadlifter, but I'm no freak - except for monkey arms, which do make deadlifting easier.

>>3111974
Arnold, is that you?

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>>3106903
I went today. Never again. "Remember when hes attacking lower your guard to put him and a state of fake confidence. That is how you throw a mist in front of his eyes"

Some snotty kid started explaining how with a thumb to the chest I can stop someone's heart. I don't think iv seen such things even in Naruke.

>>3110889

Thanks for the response, appreciate it.
I think I'll go to the BJJ club. They also have Judo there, but it's very small and nowhere close to what my current club does (in terms of competing). But maybe I'll be happier there.

Too bad that you wouldn't comment on boxing. I guess I'll just have to try to see if it's my cup of tea or not.

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>>3111739
5'4 sea monkey. I live in a midget country so my teammates are about 5'7 or 5'8 average.

Again, don't really need a short fighter to watch. Any average sized fighter would do. I just need a new style since the style I've been using is better suited for tall fighters.

>>3112764
this reminds me a lot of my friend that always says he's 6'2" but is definitely more like 5'11"

>>3112138
what if I told you I'm macho man randy savage and the rumors of my death are highly exaggerated?

Just signed up for judo, first class is this Monday for the season (they close in the summer). In a white belt class mixed with kids and adults (the kids parents mostly). What am I in for?

The instructor said once I get the basics down I can join the coloured belt adult classes, however long that takes.

>>3112449
>how with a thumb to the chest I can stop someone's heart.

You must be fucking kidding me. I mean, who the fuck would believe this bs?

Best ways to get my cardio to tip top shape? I get super gassed rolling

>>3114680
go on to an exercise bike, turn up the resistance so you can feel it a little and aren't just spinning in the air
ride HARD for 30 seconds, then slow and soft for 60 seconds
do that 8 times in a row
do it daily or as needed

repeat these words to yourself as you ride
DONT BE A PUSSY FAGGOT KEEP PUSHING YOU FUCKING BITCH YOURE FUCKING WORTHLESS IF YOU CANT DO THIS SHIT

>>3114167
I just started, i like it. We mainly do rolls and landing, then learn a throw and a grapple, then spare for the rest of the time. Make sure they have randori (sparring) its the real practice.

>>3114680
For grappling, i like rowing, all the movements are super related to the work. I have longer distance days (2000m or 5000m), and sprint days (500m then rest for a minute)

>>3114942
I'm afraid I'm going to be the only person in my age group, so randori might not be until I get into coloured belts. My impression is that it will be mostly young kids and then some people in their 40s (I'm 24, and am fairly strong so I might hurt the older folks).

I know for sure there is a good group of black/ coloured belts in the senior classes around my age though, but I'd get my shit stomped by them

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>>3115150
In my beginner group we have girls and skinny skeletons, so when I want to spar I get to fight sensei or yellow/blue belts

Itll be fine

>>3115197
I'll probably end up paired with the instructor too then. Will probably learn better that way though so that's not really a bad thing

>>3108173
Then you're concerned with nothing? because that's what the nasm says in support of that pseudoscience.
>says over wikipedia and a blog
And you're not going to read because facts hurt your feelings?

what advice do you have for a poorfag on a budget?

I'm going to Israel for vacation and I want to train while I'm there. Any israeli here got recommendations of gyms or things like that? Is it true that krav maga is actually good in israel or is it as faggoty and useless as it is here?

>>3116012
judo or boxing

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>>3114103
>mfw

>>3114680
On top of improving your cardio, learn how to pace yourself. A friend of mine - active paratrooper - has better cardio than I do and is technically good enough to avoid getting submitted by me. He invariably gets tapped because he wastes way too much energy, and I just control, let him gas out for 2-3 minutes, then submit him a couple times in the remaining minutes.

>>3105426
Nope

Will consuming Q10 rich foods mean I can train more frequently?

>>3115150
I am only person my age and size in my group, so i just randori against the instructor who is my size. Its pretty fucking awesome since he is a 4th degree black degree/world championship competitor. I get destroyed but learn a shit ton.

Im 24 too and 5'9" 220 pounds but they had me randori a 40 year old, if the other guy practices his falling, you shouldnt really be hurting him much.

>>3116024
Judo clubs are good. I got one thats $35 a month with a 2nd degree black belt instructor. They are a bargain.

>>3116075
>Throwing somebody on pavement
>vs
>Laying on your back and opening your legs or exposing the back of your head and spine during a "takedown"
Gee, i wonder what would work outside of the sport.

>>3115892
type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers are not pseudo science

>>3116460
And muscle fibers aren't what somatypes mean

>>3116469
look again my friend, I've been talking about body composition in regards to musculature this whole time

Just started BJJ and I'm the smallest guy there by far (5'7, 67kg). I'm pretty agile but once I get someone on top of me it's hard to get out. What should I focus on to get good?
I lift and work manual labor so it's not like I'm super weak (my hips are my strongest part), but when someone 20kg heavier is on me it's tough.

>>3116921
Learn more bjj

>>3116014

If you find a decent gym, go for it.
But usually you do the same things in Israel you do everywhere:
Judo, Boxing.. whatever.

>>3116921
>Just started
Basically >>3117033 first and foremost.

Keep your head free and hip escape.

>>3117831
Coming from a judo background, I pulled this off all the time at bjj. I never thought it would work on a legit wrestler, though.

>>3117939
whys that why dont you think it would work in wrestling?

>>3114680
Do every single thing you can to help yourself improve your condition, and do every single thing you can to improve your condition.

>>3118305
A wrestler would be lower and less likely to be leg grabbed

>>3114680
How's your diet?

Not enough vegetables and fruits, and too much meat can hurt your endurance.

>>3120520
That isnt at all how it works

>>3117831
That shoot is not that good, since head control was so easily established, but what pure shit is standing up with your head controlled instead of following through lower or cutting the corner.
>>3117939
One who shoots like that is not necessarly bad, but the follow up is pure shit, so of course you can pull it on bjj'ers that don't know shit.

>>3120832
Well, how it works according to you?

I'm wanting to get back into martial arts really bad, but can't afford to go to a gym. I'm thinking of just training with guys in my platoon and company and having them teach me whatever I know. How do I be careful to ensure I'm learning good shot and not developing bad habits? What are some good sources for aiding self teaching?

>>3121897
What makes meat hurt your endurance? How does that affect your cardiovascular system and muscle endurance negatively? If anything, the protein, vitamins, etc. will help your energy.

>>3122407
Self teaching won't work. For your mates, it depends on what their experience and background is. Honestly, if there are no other option (judo clubs are typically cheap) any practice is better than nothing in the end. The main goal is to enhance your reactions and muscle memory. It isnt about doing the beat move at the time, but a good move at the right time.

>>3110731

Don't say en masse Judo is stupid because the clubs you went to aren't for you.

Also, 20 year olds aren't kids. I'm 23, and I've met 16 year olds who can kick my ass, as much as 40 year olds.

Maybe try being in better shape or being more competitive so that the youngsters will want to work with you.

>>3122549
He said
>why is judo so stupid HERE
And he's not entirely wrong about the focus on kids, but you can still make such a thing work

>>3102809
>>3102831
>>3102864
>>3104438
>>3104468
>>3104475
>>3104736

Okay dudes. Chen Style Tai Chi guy here (with a little bit of BJJ experience). Been going to a class for a few months. The teacher has over 20 years experience and has been a Chen Family disciple for 10 years.

It's definitely NOT just yoga, and based on what I've seen in my teacher (and what I've felt in my body) I would say it has incredible potential as a martial art, but only after years of practice. BJJ is difficult, but easier to apply after a short period of good training.

I think there are a few reasons why you don't see Tai Chi in MMA bouts, and one general reason is that it's just plain difficult. Before you can even say that your "form" is a "Tai Chi form", your body has to be aligned and relaxed and unified. Yes - that's a real thing and once you get somewhat aligned (with your teacher's help if you're a beginner), you feel quite strong and get a wonderful sense of how power can be channeled from legs to your hands. That being said, your legs are absolutely on FIRE in this state, and getting there on your own also means learning how to relax and open up to gravity and the sensation of boiling quads. I usually wuss out after only a few minutes of silk-reeling practice and have difficulties settling my body when I'm at home. If you're not relaxed and clear-minded, you're bound to tense up and therefore lose alignment and hinder your body's ability to move naturally, freely, and efficiently. At that point, your movements are broken and stiff instead of unified and relaxed.

Tl;dr: Practicing Tai Chi properly in a class with nobody even attacking you is hard enough, using it in a a real fight is only a possibility after many many years of dedicated training. And you absolutely need a qualified teacher to really learn it. Otherwise, it's just like Yoga: Spiritually-flavored exercises that have been watered down and embellished by American consumer culture.

>>3122879
Also, on sparring:

https://youtu.be/wOjgTHoxuYI?t=9m51s

While sparring has not been done in my class, it's done at the Chen-village and also some seminars led by Chen Ziqiang. So it's not non-existent, just hard to find.

We did push-hands practice in my class, and beginners always start out with compliance; both sides draw "circles" with a focus on good form rather than competition. Anyone who tries to be competitive ends up doing really sloppy work... and if they're trying to beat the teacher, they go down pretty easily. You can only get a real good "push" or "redirection of force" when you can use clear intention to push your hands on a precise path with your legs as the generator and your core as the guide. You can only do that when your posture is properly balanced and relaxed.

>>3096915
Are curls completely useless for martial arts? what's a good substitute

>>3122879
>I would say it has incredible potential as a martial art, but only after years of practice.
there isn't a single real martial art that takes a few years for it to become practical

>>3122905
That sparring just looks like shitty judo
In this documentary there's something that looks more unique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnwNU4MoR6k
But I'd say it's like Aikido: meant to be a small add-on that will never work on its own and people who try are missing the point

>>3123069
For grappling it isnt useless, since pulls will be using your biceps as a secondary support muscle. I still do hammer curls, but focus more on my grip, back and lats.

>Barbell rows
>Meadow rows
>Towel pull ups (weighted chin ups and pull ups would be good)
>Farmer carries
>captain of crush grip shit
>Deadlifts
>Zercher Squats

is chewing gum a meme or does it really strengthen your jaw

>>3123091
I'm not going to argue with you about it, go try it out.

It's like meditating. It takes many years to learn how to do that and apply it proficiently in daily life. That doesn't make it less "real".

>>3123105
I think the main thing to take away is that, at the Chen Village, sparring is something acknowledged to be important, as are competitions. Chen Ziqiang himself said he has plans to bring some of his students into MMA, which would inevitably expose Tai Chi practitioners to new challenges and allow for new developments in Tai Chi.

Tai Chi is growing and changing like all the other martial arts.

>>3123848
Of course it's a meme.

>>3123955
>>3122905
>>3122879

Oh, look. It's an heir to Wu's crown of idiocy

>have been out for several weeks with back issue
>go to open mat
>"hey anon, I'm injured, I need to go real light. Can we flow roll?"
>"sure anon"
>he proceeds to spaz out and try to smash the shit out of me
EVERY.FUCKING.TIME

>>3125817
>Not fighting through pain
It's like you don't know pain is weakness leaving the body.

>>3126105
>thinking pain and injury are the same thing

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What are some drills that will help me become a more precise Striker?

>>3123091
The best sword teacher of the meiji era required his student to do forms for 3 years before the started sparring.

I am not here to argue the benefits of tai chi, but if your goal is to get people fighting with basic techniques you can do that quickly--though many of those arts still take months to years in order to reach competency-- If you want to burn an entirely different way of using the body, you have to start slow and work towards more advanced applications

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>partner play during MT training
>teammate and kru are sparring
>they get engaged in a clinched
>kru tells to reset
>they do but teammate gets him with a hook even if he was told to reset (unintentional, apparently because of late reaction)
>kru gets mad and goes aggressive on him, literally pummeling him with punches while teammate just gets raped as he holds on for dear life
>teammate gets hit in the core and he goes down on the ground, i think his nose was bleeding too

I can understand that our kru had to punish him like that because if he did that to another teammate it could potentially go wrong and a fight might erupt.

But goddamn that was a fucking beatdown. If he added in kicks and went 100% my teammate would've died.

>>3102071
Sorry I missed your reply. Thanks for the info, I've got a free trial class there. I'm under 70kg I think so hopefully won't have to deal with roid heads.

Do you know why there's so much roid usage in Brit MMA?

>>3126892
If you're in Britain why not go to Straight Blast Gym?

>>3116537
>I was only pretending to be retarded

>>3127039
Because I'm from London, not Ireland.

>>3125788
Exactly.

Tai chi doesn't amount to shit in fighting applications and to convince yourself otherwise will get you knocked the fuck out. I'm sure in some random Chen village there is some guy who learned from Chen fakes descentants on using chi hadokens and silk reeling super counters but for the rest of us human beings it doesn't amount to shit.

Tai chi does not fight. There are no notable practitioners with a fight record. Chen Ziqiang would get his world rocked by a below average MMA/ K1 guy. Sure, it's good for health, but it's dangerous to delude people into thinking that with enough silk reeling you can dodge a Muay Thai kick or get yourself magically out of an arm bar.

This kind of idea projection is not only foolhardy, but dangerous. Tai chi guys don't know how to properly cover themselves while being punched, don't really use their body properly even though it's preached over and over again that they use "whole body power" for "push hands", and the exercise of push hands is a load of malarkey. Push hands can't do shit against someone trying to knock your block off.

>>3127291
what do you make of Wing Chun? I have a friend who is 'black belt equivalent' and I haven't been impressed.

>>3127320
not that anon but based on the fight quest episode about wing chun it's definitely one of those martial arts I'd try if I ever visited their native country.

>>3127320
Mainly garbage

>>3127320
It's all the same pseudo-fighting bullshit. Wing Chun guys don't fight, plain and simple.

can't pick between Muay Thai and Submission grappling for my free trial lesson lads. I want to train both of them, but don't know which one will give me the better indication of what the gym and its members are like.

>>3127291
It's just folk wrestling,it's in the same category as glima and that weird German farmer wrestling over a cow. All the chi and health shit was tacked on post boxers rebellion in an attempt not to get purged .

>>3127320

It never had a consistent curriculum and most everyone tries to trace back to an opium addict who couldn't teach for shit.

>>3127380
They don't allow a free lesson for both? That's already a bad sign.

>>3127320
Some non-shit concepts that other arts have too like trapping and center line stuff but generally too caught up in either bad training or stuff that makes their art look "unique" like chain punching.

>>3127380
nah they probably do i just havent asked about it. it's a highly reputable gym in my city so i'm not worried about that.

>>3127609
>>3127789
quoted wrong post

I'm biased, so of course I disagree, but I think what you say reflects a misunderstanding of Silk Reeling and Tai Chi.

Silk reeling just means being relaxed and using your body as a unit, with the joints in their strongest and most natural positions achieved through relaxing. This is another way of saying that the joints aren't collapsed (making them especially weak) or tense (making them almost useless). You can do literally any martial arts technique (jabs, hooks, leg sweeps, leg shoots, etc.) with this principle, the difference is that you aren't tensing up where you don't need to and you're using the body parts you need to pull off the technique well. You're in a strong, natural position. Yes, teachers speak of Chi moving in a spiral path throughout the body, but that just refers to the force generated by using your will to push through to your hands with your legs, in a smooth and unbroken motion as opposed to vainly shifting weight and waving your hands around (like Jake Mace). It's 100% normal and ordinary body mechanics. The forms you often see are just exercises which give you a variety of ways to use this principle with different footwork patterns and such. Nobody reputable would dare pretend that the forms are all you need, or that push hands is full sparring. It's learning through exercise. If you don't get it, then just go to a class. That's where it's all demystified.

If a Tai Chi guy doesn't know how to cover himself, it's because he hasn't trained himself to. If he doesn't use his body properly in a technique (e.g. passing guard, getting into side control, an Americana, a roundhouse kick), then he can learn how to do so, like anyone else can. Nothing in Tai Chi prohibits you from doing what you need to protect yourself.

Footage of Chen Ziqiang in free style push hands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IckmEy6oRCU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq1t82FjdFg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpvNjPKijTc

>>3128237
I've seen Chen ziqiang. I'm not impressed.

If you want to train tai chi for health and recreation that's all fine and dandy but don't pretend like these fighting practices are effective save punching yourself out of a paper bag. It all sounds nice in theory, then you get smashed by a guy who actually fights.

Every tai chi guy I've ever seen has always had "closed door" techniques as if they are the super ultimate fighting technique but things like Brazilian jujutsu, judo, Muay Thai, and boxing have no real secrets aside from hard work and learning from good people. They have spread all over the world and don't claim that they have the superior function over all other arts. If you want to play make believe larping tai chi is for you. If you actually want to fight you'd know better.

I mean have you ever been in a real fight before with a good puncher or grappler? I don't think you have and I know Chen ziqiang DEFINETLY hasn't.

Dude I'm just telling you for your own good, drop the Chinese bullshit, unless it's sanda.

>>3127320
You ask this in every thread and the answer never changes. Why are you so stupid?

>>3128237
Things like silk realing are great. and every serious martial artist should do it or similar exercise

But they are not fighting they are conditioning, and as we know people who only do conditioning cannot beat 1st class fighters. You need to do both. Alot of that six harmonies stuff can be pulled off by an amateur on a static opponent, but that's a demonstration.

And it doesn't help that most people who teach it are frauds or have only reached a very basic level

>>3128237
Push hands just looks like first practice judo students. Impressive.

>>3129047
That's kind of unfair since the rules are completely different. Its more a pushing contest than a grappling contest.

I really dont most people here could beat a tai chi master in push hands, since more than fighting they train to win at that.

>>3129425
Most people here probably wouldn't also beat an Olympic sprinter at Sprinting too,

>>3129565
That's right, and calling push hands a form of fighting is silly, its a stability contest. Stability has applications in fighting but its not fighting.

That doesn't make it bad or not real. Its a skill like any other.

>>3129425

Yay to feed a grappler your momentum.

A pushing contest is absolutely pointless. When they only practice push hands rather than actual fighting, they better at least be decent at that useless feat.

>>3128322
You still don't really get it. It's not closed door at all. Anyone in Tai Chi who claims to have secrets is full of crap, my teacher said it himself: it's all up front. Just like what you say about hard work. The teacher gives you the basics and you have to continually develop them.

If you're still the one saying that Tai Chi practitioners are fooling themselves with mysticism, or that Tai Chi only works on a static opponent (as if Silk Reeling is imaginary or placebo or whatever), then you've demonstrated that you have no real experience with real Tai Chi - keep in mind we're talking about an art which owes its popular image to hippies, the frail and elderly, and bad movies.

I must stress again: it's all ordinary. The distinct difference between Tai Chi and most other martial arts is that the fundamentals lie in your body, not the technique.

BJJ starts with shrimping, side control, open guard, etc - Tai Chi starts with body mechanics. That is NOT saying one is better or worse than the other, it's only pointing to a distinction.

I occasionally go to a BJJ gym, and there I spar with white belts and a blue belt here and there. I don't do fantastic by any means, but people do comment on my technique which is nice to hear. I'd honestly go more often if I could afford it.

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Wtf is this

>>3129741
Well of course its more complicated, If you push full force the other guy can just pull a little and you will fall and lose.

A stability contest with very limited grappling is more accurate.

>>3129965
>Anyone in Tai Chi who claims to have secrets is full of crap

I guess some of of the top Chen guys are full of crap. Some teachers today might teach everything openly, but the traditional way is to only teach form and then only give the mechanics after someone has "proved" themselves. That not just for Tai chi but most martial arts throughout south east Asia. Liu Cheng De even said half jokingly on the issue : "well, there are no non-Chinese grand masters"

But even if your teacher says this: I dont know him but its a rare Asian martial arts teacher whose words I take at face value, especially if they are not speaking to you privately.

>>3129997
It looks like a bad demonstration of judo's koshiki no kata, which among other things teach advanced examples of kuzushi and applications for grappling in armor.

Kano took them from the kata of Kito ryu, which to draw things back to other topics here, was known for possessing advanced internal concepts, though it appears the knowledge was degraded or lost by Kano's generation

How does one get better at fighting Southpaw if they are normally orthodox? Do you just practice stuff as a southpaw?

>>3129997
Years ago at a tournament, my opponent went in for a sloppy seioi nage. I yanked him straight down flat to his back and transitioned to osaekomi. I was surprised to hear the ref immediately give me the ippon. He was an old timer Japanese dude. Maybe he thought I was doing a technique from the kata

>>3129965
Why don't you just challenge CCP to a fight and then run away like a bitch like the other cma apologists have done so we can be done with all of this

>>3129997
That's at the International judo HQ, the Kodokan.

The 2 guys on the right are Yasuhiro Yamashita consider the most winningest judoka of all time. i think he has 4 world champs and 4 gold medals. He wrote the book on osto gari and he was the reason kani basami (flying leg scissors) was banned when he was force to retire from the technique when his opponent pop out his legs during the all japan tournament


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glwYurrthcc


He is also a close friend and instructor to Putin, Putin himself is a 8th degree judo black belt (and sambo master of sport and master of combat) and wrote a book on judo which is used in Russian highschool physical education classes.


The 2 guys on the left are former Japanese Prime Minsters both who are judo black belts. Yoshiro Mori and Shinzo Abe

They're watching historical kata, proto judo in japanese samurai armor. Putin is a huge weeb and loves samurai shit

>>3130076
striking or grappling?
In judo a majority of high level players are left sided throwers, even though most are orthodox in their day to day. their coaches just train and drill left hand hours upon hours so their angle of attacks become left hand. You do feel a slight difference though when you clinch with them

I am a natural leftie myself but my coaches were rightie so i train right, i have a few techniques that angle left, But my power hand in gripping is my right, however my more coordinated hand is my left since i am naturally left, so i feel when faux lefties grip with me, even though they have the power their not as coordinated if that makes sense. like with their muscle memory and strength i feel the power in their left hand but they lack some of the cordination i have.

Same could be said when i grip right, even though i am a leftie. My muscle memory for my right hand throws are powerful because of my reps but some of my gripping coordination is not as smoothed compared to naturally right handed people

>>3130103
He won't because he's full of shit.

>>3130121
Another leftie throwing tight here. You just go for the lapel/neck/head control first?

Used to do that myself, but I've almost completely switched to establishing a left hand grip on their right sleeve, just below the wrist. Shuts down their right hand while giving me two good grips. Worst case scenario I still get regular grips.

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>>3106873

I did Jūdō for 13 years before switching over to Budō, which I have done for 14 years. I've trained in several schools of Ninjutsu, but only after a decade of training in Budō.

Ninjutsu combat techniques I have seen are quite poor compared to combat arts like Jūjutsu to Taijutsu. In my opinion, most of them would fall under the 'would not work well in a real fight' category. They teach some interesting concepts, but compared to battlefield arts they are sub-par.

Ninjutsu weapons are also all improvised weapons (cobbled together from farm tools); hand-claws, trowels, shuriken, teppan (metal plate), kusari fundo, grappling hooks, blow-darts and so on. They work, but they don't work well. Real weapons like swords, spears and bows are much more effective. You need to remember that many Ninja weapons doubled as tools for digging, cutting, climbing and so on, so they weren't designed for combat.

One thing that does make Ninjutsu interesting is strategies. More so than Japanese battlefield and combat arts, Ninjutsu focuses a great deal on unconventional warfare; poisons, gas, arson, explosives, espionage, intelligence, sabotage and so on. This makes it incredibly useful outside of actual combat, but not very useful in combat.

Ninjutsu is a martial art in the most general of terms, but it is very weak as an actual combat art. All the styles of Ninjutsu I have seen have very poor hand to hand or weapon techniques.

The greatest challenge of training Ninjutsu is finding a legitimate instructor. All my Ninjutsu training was done in Japan, and only after spending a decade doing Budō. Would I do Ninjutsu by itself? Probably not. Is it an excellent addition to a core combat style? Absolutely.

Ninjutsu is icing. Without a cake it doesn't taste very good.

>>3128380
I usually get one answer which isn't very conclusive. This time I've had five or so answers that have been quite informative so I don't have to ask the question again.

Why are you such a dick?

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>>3130946

Wing Chun is incomplete. Like something was lost in translation or over time.

The striking is solid, but disconnected from the core and legs. WC leg postures and footwork makes no logical or biomechanical sense. The idea that you are going to punch your way through every problem is absurd. Every striking style needs three things; balanced posture, mobility and distance. WC can't even get one of these right.

That's not even including the ability to move in and out of grappling range, which WC doesn't even cover. No ground fighting either or weapons.

I think it's a waste of time. Might as well find a martial art that bases its movement on more solid principles.

WC could be good if it was rebuilt, but as it stands now its just not good at anything.

>>3130011
>but the traditional way is to only teach form and then only give the mechanics after someone has "proved" themselves.

In that case, my teacher is going against his own teacher (19th gen Chen Family) by going through the basic, fundamental body mechanics every class before forms.

You can't even do the more nuanced "techniques" (Peng, Liu, Ji, An, etc) before understanding the basics, and the teacher occasionally makes a reference to those whenever he finds an opportunity. Then he quotes Chen Xiaowang on the "one movement principle" and explains that "all movements and forms are a variations of standing post. If your forms don't feel like standing post, something is wrong. I can correct you in class, but you need to continually investigate the Pelvic region for tension and get that sorted through on your own. Until your joints are 'sung' (relaxed), there is no so-called Dan Tien to speak of. Relaxation of the joints is a lifelong pursuit." I'm paraphrasing him, but he says these sorts of things all the time. Secret techniques are never alluded to, because he says they don't exist. Given the things he's shown us and helped us with, I can trust him on that. If anyone tries to think too much about Peng, etc. before they can even stand straight, they get distracted, and deluded. Usually they don't like standing because it hurts or is boring and they want to "get on with it".

Where have you heard of the Chen family doing this sort of thing you talk about? It sounds like something out of a movie.

>>3130103
Not quite sure what that is... Anyway I never said I was capable of competing. White belts kick my ass all the time. What I'm saying is that Tai Chi isn't what you guys think it is.

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>>3131100
>White belts kick my ass all the time

That's pathetic.

>>3131100
How long have you trained this stuff? White belts outside of the natural freaks shouldn't be kicking your ass unless you've been training for under 6 months

>>3131100
>White belts kick my ass
Truly your training has been worthwhile.

>>3130076
Ladder drills can help a lot with footwork and stances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA7OhKoCqHs
Do what he does at @1:04 onwards but for both stances. I'm a southpaw and it helped me be more comfortable with orthodox.

Being comfortable in a stance is one thing though, switching from orthodox to southpaw (or vice versa) effectively while sparring is something else.

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>>3131263

>>3131100
leave. Stop using your trip. You have proven yourself to be a joke. This is an anonymous website, you can admit defeat to yourself while pretending you didn't lose while posting... then you can stop using the trip and no one will know it's you. Leave and never let Tai Chi !!2JGSLamqcOa come back, only come back as anon

>>3131100
>there is no so-called Dan Tien to speak of.

Wrong, Im not going to try to explained something as complicated and esoteric as dantien but it can be trained.

and "relaxation" is something is a horrible translation.

>Where have you heard of the Chen family doing this sort of thing you talk about? It sounds like something out of a movie.

I dont train CMA myself, alot to much digging through dirt to find gold, but I do know people who do and have read up on public, and not so public information.
I gave you the Liu Cheng de quote, and I have heard comments here and there by people at chen village.

But more than that, All traditional Chinese martial arts followed the inner student outer student dynamic.

You can even this in books by non-Chinese who describe a mixture of sound basics and nonsense. Chinese teachers themselves have said they were probably not trusted with the family jewels because they were outsiders. And any Chinese teacher not doing this today is the exception, not the rule.

>>3130518
Depends really a lot of times i get a wrist tie/sleeve grip depending on what my opponent gives me then depending on their own angle i arm drag to get my lapel grip or circle and asahi wazatoget my lapel grip.

For myself my right sided tai otoshi is stronger because i am leftie, my sleeve hand is so strong i just get a two on one, by grabbing uke's same side lapel.


For left sided throws i still work sleeve grip and i hit soto maki komi. If my sleeve grip doesnt work, i arm drag into ura naga/suplex variants or just hip toss

>>3131240
>>3131263
I've "trained" in BJJ for 4 months tops, very irregularly. As of my last session 2 weeks ago I'm only just now getting used to shrimping in an actual sparring match.

Like I said, I never came here to prove that Tai Chi is the best or that I'm the best. I'm speaking as a person who knows the legitimacy of other martial arts (e.g. BJJ) and has the experience with Tai Chi to say that it's not what people think it is.

>>3131787
You might've misread my post:

>Until your joints are 'sung' (relaxed), there is no so-called Dan Tien to speak of.

The context was the teacher reminding us about fundamentals, and as an extra point he said that anyone who asks questions about the Dan Tien is thinking way too much about something that is understood solely through personal experience (and through instruction). In other words, you'll know it when you feel it, and there won't be questions about it. And it won't be "complicated".

To the best of my memory, his words were:
>In order to use this area (motions around abdomen), your body has to meet the requirements. If the requirements aren't met, the Dan Tien as an acupuncture point still exists but not in the Tai Chi sense.

Watching translated videos with CXW, he would say "the core is not ensured" or "the core hasn't come into being". The point is that while there is a Dant Tien, the conditions needed for its utilization aren't present. So it might as well not be there.

I'm sure that there is an inner/outer student dynamic, but I have a sense that it's misunderstood, because there's videos on youtube where Chen Xiaoxing and Chen Xiaowang are speaking to a number of students (in Seminars and television interviews) on body mechanics as opposed to just forms. What have you heard from people at Chen Village?

>>3132252

Every guy who's into CMA always talk about fighting and don't really have fighting experience. If using your Dan Tien to magically destroy any guy worked you would not be struggling with bjj white belts.

You've been doing bjj for 4 months and you are just NOW using shrimping? Man, get out of here.

watch this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ6j0i0LxNo

Every tai chi guy who's done this challenge has gotten smashed.

>>3132252
You really enjoy wasting your time, don't you? Neither Tai Chi nor BJJ work in a real fight. Both are bullshit pushed by propaganda and myth by chinks and jungle spics. Outside sports tailored to them they aren't real fighting and that's all there is to it.

Goju-ryu is all you need if you want to quit the McDojo daycare and join the actual martial artists.

>>3132252
>it is not what people think it is
I already thought it was shit though.

Martial arts should overall be able to translate into others. I beat a blue belt in my first bjj by relying on my wrestling and grappling experience. Did i technically beat him in bjj, no cuz i only knew one very situational move

So you're argument that it helps with overall conditioning/skill is bullshit. Obviously it does shit if you are losing to white belts.

>>3132298
>Karate

>>3132252
Joe rogan on kung fu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDWFS6uzMvM

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>>3132287
If he has been doing it irregularly its hardly surprising he cant do shrimping with any skill.

And no one claims dantien or internals or whatever are any more magic than good yoga or weight lifting. Sure some of the really advanced guys can do static demonstrations that seem like magic but that is just a demonstration of principle, not fighting. T

here were people in early judo and Japanese jujutsu who did similar stuff. In fact it was considered very important in Japanese jujutsu and early judo, but only as one part of a skill set. (Though many jujutsu instructors considered it the fundamental principle from which technique followed)

>>3106938
What the hell was that at 4:50? Psychic attack?

>>3132287
When did a second match with a "Tai Chi guy" ever happen?

>>3132424
>Martial arts should overall be able to translate into others.

Yes. And I express my faith that Tai Chi can, even though I personally can't at my level of training. I'm a young grasshopper, deal with it.

Beginning grappler here

Let's say you're caught in a sub that's mostly locked in, but not all the way.

If you've genuinely tried to fight out of it and have exhausted all your options for escaping, is it okay to tap even if the sub isn't completely tight?

>>3133231
Always. If you don't tap and admit your loss you could get seriously injured

>>3133161
No, it can't. Because tai chi wasn't designed to actually fight anyone. Tai chi is a meditative folk dance with games like pushing hands thrown in for good measure. Use it for flexibility. Use it for stretching. Don't convince yourself that wave hands like clouds or pull the sparrow by its tail is going to work against a wrestler who will single leg you to death.

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>>3132450
>Joe Rogan

Not a kung fu practitioner, but who gives a fuck? He's like the Black Science Man of MMA.

>>3133161
The rematch never happened because the CCCP is watching him with laser sights. The fact that a fight leaked where an alleged Tai Chi master was BTFO'd by somebody trained at a MMA gym, presumably including a lot of Western-derived techniques, has got the commies ding-dong diddley SEETHIN'. Not to mention that ordinary Chinese civilians who resent him for disrespecting muh heritage (i.e., proving the mystical dragon power they export to the rest of the world as proof of Chink awesomeness as garbage).

Story gets sadder the more you read into it as well. MMA guy actually started in Chinese TMAs and still respects them. Like apologists here, he thinks they've just been watered down and abused by frauds. Also, Tai Chi """master""" was a glorified hack who was shown getting his shit pushed in at a novice push hands tournament.

If he actually decides to defiantly hold a high profile bout where he challenges and defeats another professed Chuan Fa master, god forbid a so-called Shaolin monk, he might actually get disappeared.

>>3133285
So sad man. The guy is bringing about a new view of fighting to the Chinese and he gets punished because "muh tradition".

Those old Chinese farts should be ashamed of themselves. "Muh honor" and "muh morals" don't mean jack shit if you can't fight your way out of a paper bag.

>>3133262
What if it's only sort-of locked in, where it kinda hurts but not close to injuring and you're just kinda stuck there?

I know trying to tough it out when it's locked on is dumb since you'll get injured, but I don't want to be the guy who taps instantly at any sign of trouble.

>>3133319
What's worse is that most of it isn't long-standing tradition, or at least not as old as purported. Most of what's masturbated over as ancient wisdom was ad-libbed after the Maoists waged war against their own culture and history and the people practicing martial arts had to bullshit up a bunch of alternative reasons to train anything at all. Then it was decided that domestically the mysticism could be exploited for jingoism and abroad it could be exported for financial gain and acquiring "face."

Karate, Muay Boran/Thai, FMAs, and silat probably have more to do with the majority of CMAs than anything supposedly a traditional CMA in practice today. Not really a loss in my opinion because even authentic CMAs I don't believe would teach anything that other martial arts and combat sports don't do just as well, but I just get this cringe from it all like I do when Koreans try to pretend their post-WWII martial arts were invented by 2,000-year-old "Samurang" or "Ninjongs."

>>3133285
Alleged being the key word, he had no students, no active affiliation with any of the major groups and about three years of training.

>>3133274
Well say what you will about the state of Tai Chi today but your description is historically inaccurate.

I know for good reason most of the people here would rather be training than reading something as obscure as a martial arts history book but if your going to make statements like that you might want to fact check a little

>>3133161
And how long have you been training in tai shit?

>>3133333
Let the other guy get tired, depending on the hold it takes him more energy, then you counter.

>>3133333
The fact is if you're in that position at some point you screwed up anyways. It's not a good habit not to tap man, that's how you learn without serious injury. The better thing is to not put yourself in the position to be submitted in the first place. Work on guard escapes and placing yourself in a more dominant position.

I did the same thing you did and tried to take something that some guy got me in and almost got injured badly. Just go ahead and take the loss and reset.

GYM TAPS ARE NOT "LOSSES"

THERE IS NO SHAME IN TAPPING DURING TRAINING

>>3133363
I think it's pretty accurate.

>>3133400
Where is CCP when you need him

>>3133400
I know the general opinion of tai chi and CMA in general is quite low here, but a general air of civility never hurt a conversation, When I am talking about say ninjutsu with a practitioner I prefer to veil my words unless they are a real asshole about it

>>3133440
Well its not,

you can say you dont think it was ever really effective, but the idea it did not have fighting in mind in its original form (if not its modern form) is pure head cannon on your part

>>3133445
I'd prefer to expose shit as shit. People are trying to claim those dumb hand motions and push orgies are actually relevant.

Ninjutsu is at least just an accepted joke but left alone because of the weebs.

I don't see a reason to train in modern Tai Chi for fighting or self-defense and am highly skeptical of the claim that there's even a lineage in existence being taught to Occidentals that could be used for those means.

On the other hand, I'd be surprised if a style with a name translated as "Great Ultimate Fist" didn't have combat in mind way back when. I guess it may have been some big ironic joke, but that seems like a stretch.

>>3133591
>People are trying to claim those dumb hand motions and push orgies are actually relevant

Erm, they are.

http://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2017/05/combat-tai-chi-seriously.html

This article strikes a sensible middle ground.

>>3133591
Well they do, in the right context, training proper movement. If you look at them as that rather than combat they make sense.

If Tai Chi only claimed to be a system like yoga rather than a practical fighting method I think there would be a lot less people questioning it.


>>3133599
The "Supreme Ultimate" is a Taoist concept, it is not meant to imply tai chi is the best fighting style

>>3133231
>>3133333
It's not just an option, it's usually the best option. At some point you will (have to) learn when a sub is fully sunk in, and when it's just sloppy enough to suck it up and try another escape without getting injured, but that's not now. To learn the difference, allow people you completely trust with your joints to fully sink them in. Or tap, then ask to gently apply the lock in a controlled fashion anyways. In time, you'll recognize a proper submission before it's sunk in.

On top of that just hanging in there will mean you're wasting time you could've spent actually fighting and probably learning more.

>>3133599
Spent some time learning Tai Chi from a decent teacher with experience in several other martial arts, has a succesful competition record etc. Have to say that - coupled with Aikido which I also do on the side - I learned a lot about movement, balance and power generation that I otherwise would've been ignorant about for years to come. Push hands even comes in handy when grip fighting.

Just got my first gi, what setting and RPM do I wash it on? My washing machine has a quick setting that's like 15-20 minutes, is that safe?

>>3132428
karate is a good martial art as long as it involves full contact sparring.
>>3132298
No martial art will help you in a real fight because a real fight requires a different mentality.

>>3133285
jo hogan is a good guy

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FFS even the mods think this board is wrestling only.

>>3134296
wew

>>3133606
>It's not tai chi it's those damn 99% of practitioners fault
Those choreographed movements throughout the page are also useless.

>>3133636
>If it was treated like yoga
That is the whole issue here, there are people trying to claim it has actual relevance in fighting.

>>3133854
>Tai chi coupled with aikido
O boy, double trouble over here.

>>3134207
I think GSP practiced kyokushin karate? I know it can be effective method for striking, but it is one of the biggest victims of mcdojo.

>>3134622
>O boy, double trouble over here.
Competitively active Judo brown belt and BJJ purple belt as well. Should have my Judo shodan - or rather, should've tried to get it - but I don't have a partner to take the exam.

>>3134622
That is the whole issue here, there are people trying to claim it has actual relevance in fighting.

Well it does, just like yoga or weight lifting, even push hands can build some important skills which translate, its just not as relevent to fighting as say: fighting, or drilling fighting techniques

>>3134741
And judo and bjj respectable. Good job on your success in those, further along than me. Good luck with your shodan.

>>3134744
>Comparing weight lifting's impact to lift to yoga and push hands

You only need one of these three as a fighter, guess which?

>>3134756
By yoga I certainly am not referring tot he church basement yoga common in the states.

If you dont accept the premise that yoga and related activities are a great way to strengthen the body for martial applications than we have nothing more to talk about.

>>3134756
of the 3 I would say yoga. Weight lifting strengthens areas already mechanically strong, yoga strengthens areas that are mechanically weak

>>3134741
let me get this straight: you're well versed in judo and bjj and you don't see how woefully moronic tai chi and aikido are towards actual fighting and use words like "power generation"?

Don't mind me, just being skeptical as fuck.

>>3135131
Then you aren't lifting right. Lifting is going to provide overall functional strength, endurance, mass, and explosiveness. Yoga provides balance and flexibility, which can both be trained without yoga rather easily.

>>3135249
But, to be fair, the mental benefits of yoga are not a meme. There's literally no reason why a dedicated fighter can't find 3 hours a week for a few yoga sessions.

>>3134622
Okay, anonymous faggot. I'm sure you know what you're talking about and not making things up and mindlessly parroting sherdog posts as you go along to pretend at knowledge.

Kazushi Sakuraba never lifted.

>>3135255
There are tons of good bjj guys that do yoga. Yoga is useful. But yogis don't think they can open their chakra centers and blast those mean Muay Thai/boxers/grapplers away.

>>3135262
Ok, then show us aikido working against a real fighter. Where is tai chi on the world stage? I mean if you like larping and cosplay, that's cool, more power to you. But the shit doesn't work, period. there are mma guys who have even practiced tai chi stuff who don't use it in a fight because they know it doesn't work.

>>3135203
Nothing strange about that once you've experienced it really. Due to different principles being stressed, you get a much deeper understanding of those aspects of fighting. Simple examples would be
>both taught me to sink my weight down and keep it above my hips, making me harder to take down and almost impossible to sweep
>was told to work in front of my centre until I got sick of it, which helped and still helps with throws and submissions
>top tier breakfalls allowed me to avoid many noob injuries, leading to more mat time
>kokyu nage type throws often work well against heavyweights or people shooting in
>got good footwork, learned how to move joints and shift my weight to generate power, learned how to 'set' joints etc
>the occasional lolzy weird submission or choke
>better understanding of kuzushi/balance breaking
>more stuff I forget or am not aware of

While the number of direct throws and submissions from Tai Chi and Aikido is fairly low - partially because I don't have the time to train them frequently - this is all stuff I constantly use. I pervades my entire game on a very basic level.

>>3135255
Opportunity cost. If all I did was fight, then i would probably make time for it. But i work two jobs unrelated to fighting and do more than this, so it just isn't much priority relatively. If all I did was bjj, I probably would, but my focus is more Judo and later Sambo once i get back to the East coast.

I personally like the aspects of yoga, i just do not see it as too important to fighting. I would do it regardless if not for money and time restraints.

>>3135262
Which remark are you getting autistic over?

>>3135310
>There are tons of good bjj guys that do yoga. Yoga is useful. But yogis don't think they can open their chakra centers and blast those mean Muay Thai/boxers/grapplers away.

I dont think anyone made that exact claim here. And as for internal stuff, authentic yoga guys in India make claims very similar to tai chi, They do a lot of breath work, weird abdominal exercises and pose holding, though they do it on the ground rather than standing like Chinese internal arts. They can do the exact same stand there while you push on me with all your weight tricks.

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>>3135203
Not him but the same stuff is all over old judo books and quotes from Kano's students.

modern Judo didn't preserve the long solo exercises for it found in older jujutsu schools but they knew of the concept and tried to integrate it into judo's training philosophy as best they could.

Have my first Muay Thai class on thursday after literal years of putting it off. I forgot to ask what I should wear so I'm just gonna turn up in my usual sports t-shirt and shorts without zips.

I presume you train bare-footed, right? And they'll have gloves/shinguards etc. there?

>>3135380
how much did you forget

>>3135442
huh?

>>3133424
Just don't be the dude who taps to getting swept, or taps when your arm is controlled but no submission has been attempted yet. Its super annoying when a partner submits to just the setup.

>>3133443
I pop in occasionally and anonymously

>>3135461
Oh noooo I tap when it's checkmate. Just because I believe in tapping when submitted doesn't mean I'm not gonna fight. That's no fun.

>>3135249
weight lifting is the antithesis of functional strength. the entire functional training movement exists as a counterculture to traditional training methods of pick things up and put them down.
if you go into any legitimate gym, and not one of the meme fat tax gyms like retro, town sports, x-sport and the like you will see their personal training floor has very little in the way of weights. You might see some kettle bells and an olympic bar near by but all functional training, the training actual athletes undergo, is done with body weight exercises

>>3135468
Sounds like another CMA guy needs a good challenge so they can run away.

Would training at an actual boxing gym help with boxing in MMA? I've noticed people say a lot of MMA fighters can't box which makes me think people like Cody and Conor who have backgrounds in it do so well because of their amateur boxing training

>>3135478
>Weightlifting is the antithesis of functional strength
So squats, deadlifts, farmer carries, ohp, etc don't provide functional strength? K.

>Personal trainer floor
Ya, because their clients are mostly old people who can't handle strength training but just use bands.

>Kettlebell, olympic bar, and bodyweight exercises enhanced with weights is somehow not weightlifting
No comment, just a retarded statement.

>Athletes only do body weight
O boy. That is absolutely not true. Most athletic programs incorporate weight lifting.

I do bodyweight as well, it's important, but it will not build muscle to the same extent (since it relies on your weight).

>>3135504
>Will training in boxing help my boxing
Really?

>>3135523
Well I figure traditional boxing and MMA boxing would be different. MMA schools teach boxing, but a good amount of fights can't box.

>>3135528
The difference is the fact you can be kicked and taken down. So the difference is mainly defensive. Boxing will help you learn good footwork, to punch, and protect yourself from punches. It can only help.

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>>3135378
Source of your image? Would like to read.

>>3135478
>mfw
From personal experience I can tell you that having high level deadlift core strength is quite an advantage when fighting. For grappling you can nip many throws and sweeps in the bud because it's a lot harder to break your posture.

And then there for example youtube footage of the Korean or Japanse national Judo teams. Consists of Judo, cardio, conditioning and serious lifting. Bodyweight stuff is good for conditioning but don't try to use it for building strength unless you're doing weighted exercises.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-PZCMyubWg&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQb8folTFQA

>>3135350
Yeah that makes sense. I was referring to pro fighters

>>3135590
Fair enough. If i was dedicated to fighting profressionally i would include sparring, weight lifting, and yoga in that order.

>Tai chi
>King fu
>Karate
>Aikido

Why are false, worthless """martial arts""" even allowed in this thread? TMAutists should make their own discussion and leave serious fighters who know what actually works in real life in peace.

Boxing, MT, BJJ, wrestling, and judo. Those are the only proven, realistic actual martial arts worth training for adults who want to protect themselves or win competitions. Sanda and kyokushin are more suspect but plausible, but still fuck off with your gook bullcrap. If it's not MT or Judo and wasn't invented by whites, then surprise surprise, it's probably useless.

Tired of these /a/ crossposters shitting up decent discussion by expecting their weeb fantasies to be taken seriously. Go back to ribbit Better yet, test your precious TMA on any MMA novice and let reality ensue.

>>3135639
>if it doesnt meet my goalpost no one should enjoy it
wew lad, you're new but not the first to come here with that mentality and be shot down

>>3135639
See >>3135340

>>3135639
Only serious and good tier may comment without evaluation. Suspect tier must go through appropriate screening. Banned tier may not comment.

>Serious tier
Sambo
Muay Thai
Judo
Bjj
Pankration

>Good tier
Boxing
Kickboxing
Wrestling

>Suspect tier
Karate
Krav Maga
Tae Kwon Do
Sanda

>Banned tier
Aikido
Kung fu
Tai Chi
Ninjustu

>>3135667
>Enjoy vs practicality
Nobody cares if you enjoy it, just don't spout it as practical in a real fight.

>>3135667
Oh, so sorry. I was under the impression that "martial" referred to war and battle and a "martial art" pertains to the systemized use of violence in conflict either to win a figh or for self-defense. Seems pretty damn reasonable that a martial arts general should therefore be restricted to real styles effective towards those aims.

You wanna dance and roleplay? Don't be mad or surprised when logical people don't cotton to your delusions.

>inb4 "I-I just wanted to get in shape and experience muh chink culture. I-I didn't really wanna learn how to fight effectively.

No, false arts should be made to put up, shut up, or be laughed out of the building.

>>3135639
what about catch wrestling?

>>3133274
Tai Chi was created by a Chinese war general who took martial arts movements from other fighting traditions and infused them with principles of Qigong, with the aim of providing people with a fighting method that prevented injuries. That's why the essence of Tai Chi is the method, not the forms (such as the ones you see which came well after Tai Chi was created). I don't know how you're not getting this yet. It's like you don't want to believe anything but the age old myth (thrown around by Joe Rogan) that it's all just forms and one-steps.

>>3133285
Yeah, the state of CMA's are a drag, but Chen Ziqiang has said that he was looking at getting his students into MMA a year or so ago. Hope something good comes from it.

>>3133400
I've been consistently going to a Tai Chi class since June, went to a few late last year but temporarily moved out of state. Before that I was doing a post-WWII Korean hybrid TMA that taught forms, one-steps, etc. at my high school. It was good experience but both Tai Chi and BJJ showed me that I was missing out on a lot. Body mechanics never were a subject and sparring was light.

>>3135249
I weight lifted for 2 years and didn't get much out of it in terms of (functional) explosive strength. Yeah I could push really hard really fast, but even on my old TMA teacher it meant crap. I'd push myself backwards on him because his stance was stronger than my bench press (and despite tons of static stretching, I was too stiff to use my legs). Tai Chi teaches you explosive strength too (Fajin), but it emphasizes using the legs (quads!) to generate the force for that. After Tai Chi (and biking to work) my legs and core are stronger than they were when I did squats and deadlifts. Tai Chi is a brutal leg work out. If you think bodyweight squats are easy, you're doing them wrong. Even just doing standing post hurts (so good). And I get a whole lot of functional strength out of it when lifting heavy things, etc.

>>3135685
>being a tier fag
it's really a case of having a good instructor and being willing to be receptive of their instruction. there will always be cases of strip mall mcdojos with armchair self-promoted black belts or self claimed mystics with a cult following, but that's not the fault of the art itself. i've trained with various kung fu practitioners (since it is a catchall term) that have been in the ring. it's a case of shit being put on a pedestal my the neigh sayers and not even bothering to look for anything else.
>>3135692
^^

if you're out east, there's a throw down in toronto at the fighting art collective if you want to prove that chinese arts are worthless for actual fighting

>>3135685
No, they deserve to be mocked for enjoying objective shit. It collectively hurts martial arts just like plebes consuming shit films, music, and games push the market towards swill and make merit harder to find. There is no reason to train a martial art except learning how to fight, and whatever "enjoyment" TMA spergs claim they get is always related to their McDojo's Bullshido master telling them it will work in a conflict. It's not just cringe, it's dangerous and irresponsible to spread those religion-tier delusions without ridicule.

Also Pankration is a meme. Trying to fill in the blanks on pottery drawings with modern knowledge and go WE WUZ MMA AND SHEIT.

Anyone have thoughts on going to a black inner city boxing gym as a white boy from the suburbs?

Gervonta Davis's gym isn't that far away from me, and if it produced him it should be pretty good, but I haven't seen a single white person in any of their promotional videos.

>>3135706
i thought it would be easy to find the event on le googs but it doesn't look like it, so here's the information

http://throwdowngroup.com/

>>3135581
>Source of your image?

Old judo forum, now dead,

>>3135693
Catch wrestling is extremely useful. Look up Ad Santel.

>>3135699
>I lifted for two years
And what was your work out, did you explicitly work on your explosive strength? Things like power cleans will give you tremendous explosion.

>I'd push myself backward
Sounds like you didn't work on your standing push (aka bracing). Bench press is too isolated. Landmine presses and weighted pushups/weighted one hand pushups will provide the additional bracing you need.

>quads for power
And hip drive, and glutes. All these muscles need to be developed.

>body weight squats
I do pistol, regular body weight squats are easy. Good for the knee but with body weight, you already need good weight on your for this to build meaningful strength.

>>3135708
>Pankration is a meme
It isn't purely historical but it is a legitimate martial art from a practical. It combines greek folk wrestling/sparring, boxing, sabat, greco-roman wrestling, and judo. Both Demetrius Johnson and Khabib have a background in it.

>>3135706
>It's the person, not the style.

Bullshit. It's both, because some styles are demonstrably, provably, experimentally inferior to others. MMA has done a great job weeding out the nonsense and uselessness.

There are a lot of shit karate dojos out there compared to decent ones. By contrast, there are a lot of awesome boxing gyms out there compared to crap ones. This is because competitive full-contact styles can be judged by their coaches' record s and those of the students they send off to compete. Also, styles like BJJ quite simply don't tolerate frauds and the community will wreck your shit if you try to fake it. Therefore, by any mathematical and useful metric to judge what will most likely be a good use of one's time to learn how to fight, boxing and BJJ are simply better than karate or taekwondo. Bottom line.

>Fight me IRL

LOL, it's another "TMA challenges MMA and chickens out at go time" episode.

>>3135520
weight lifting is very specific, and using a weighted object to make yourself heavier isn't weight lifting, it's still body weight and functional training

weight lifting is about moving an object
take it a step further and talk about olympic style lifting and the goal isn't even strength, it's about picking something up in the most mechanically efficient way possible
functional training is about moving your body
its exercises come from moving your body in inefficient ways, to strengthens it where its weak, which strengthens the areas where it's strong as well. Building the size of muscles doesn't matter, what you want is muscle density.

>>3135581
functional training will make you stronger, more explosive, and have more stamina than pumping iron on a bench.
I'll give you my anecdote, there was this swole fucking meatball, one of those stocky 4x4s as wide as he is tall and he had the standing row stacked with with 3 plates on each side and he gutted out a set and then left the weights on like a douche. So before I cleaned up that faggots mess I wanted to give it a pull to see what that kind of weight is like, and one pull turned into a whole bunch because I was sitting there half stunned after watching this guy struggle so much against what feels like opening a heavy door at best to me

File: 10419476_332682103568171_6535746267474452139_n.jpg (18KB, 450x337px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 450x337px

>>3135708
Hey man, the enjoyment I get out of Tai Chi is visceral! It feels great. If I haven't done Tai Chi I feel pretty crappy. Of course I get some fantasies here and there but... it's fantasy. Kind of like your projections on the value of a human being for enjoying something you've been conditioned to believe is "objective shit", which might as well be a /mu/ trademark. Get off the internet, for real.

>>3135745
I can't remember my routine, but it was an AxBxAxx sort of thing separated into push/pull with 3x5 bench, deadlift, etc. and accessory exercises. I tried snatches at one point but wasn't properly trained so I stopped... wouldn't say I ever consciously made a choice to be explosive before or after that.

I agree with what you say on bracing and using other muscles for power, but Tai Chi teaches these things slightly differently. I've been told explicitly in my class not to drive my hips - particularly in a way that causes hip tension (and thus immobility) and improper alignment. Looking at google, the purpose of a hip drive in a squat is to bring the whole body into it, including the posterior chain. This is achieved in Tai Chi through the "sung" principle which, besides dropping your weight to the legs to engage them, engages the core naturally and keeps your body straight. I notice that on /fit/ they say bad posture is a result of muscular strength imbalances, but in Tai Chi it's more like some joints are too stiff or collapsed, and the muscles aren't being used properly (e.g. they're too stiffly).

Interesting to note that Chen Ziqiang does lift.

>>3135820
>Lifting a weight isnt weight lifting

>Weight lifting can't be used for muscle density
Where are these fucking memes coming from?

>My evidence is an anecdote of a fat guy
Useful

>>3135794
>mma has done a great job weeding out the nonsense and uselessness
do you mean ufc, pride, one or any of the other mma promotions? mma itself is just that, mixed martial arts. the biggest problem with your view however is that these are promotions which are about making money, and it's easier to draw crowds with things they know then what they don't know. there are cma guys who fight in tournaments but because they aren't kung fu, they will be labeled as a karate, tkd, bjj, ect.

>implying i was saying to fight me
im on the other side of the country and have been waiting four years for a diagnosis to find out why i can't feel my legs. i had plans to crosstrain in bjj and start doing tournaments then fights, but that shit just won't happen for a long time.

>>3135823
The hip is used in internal arts, but it turns at the kua rather than rotating around the opposite side,moving your weight from one side of your body to the other, which is w hat most people try to do when they hear :use your hips

>>3135843
the only athletes on serious weight lifting regiments are competitive weight lifters and football linemen and that's mostly to keep them massive.
this is what I do, and if you come to one of our trainers and say you want to be a body builder we will put you on a weight lifting regiment, and if you say you want to be an athlete we have a functional training area which is a big open floor, and the equipment you will be seeing are boxes, cones, bosu, trx, that kind of stuff

>>3135794
I would like people to stop using karate as a blanket term, in fact I would like the term to go away all together since it's really just japanese nationalist propaganda to begin with.
it's not your fault, but you can help be an agent of change by arming yourself with knowledge.

once upon a time japan and that region were not unified as we know, and different nations developed different martial arts, and since japan unified they all got the blanket of karate applied to them with "styles" being used to differentiate them. Which implies they are all similar and derived from the same central teaching.
Using the word karate is like calling every martial art out of europe boxing.

look at goju which is wrestling based with strikes added, and compare it to shotokan which is about outfighting and blitzing. Just two examples out of 15+ recognized fighting styles with bear very little in common other than being called karate.

>>3135823
Yeah, numerous videos of Tai Chi spergs getting wrecked by styles battle-tested in limited rules MMA does condition me to believe that it's objective shit. Just because /mu/ annoys you doesn't mean quality doesn't exist; there are degrees of merit to things and patricians and plebes exist.

There is nothing you Tai Chi gives you that a secular physical fitness program can't do better and faster. TMAutists are basically the martial arts equivalent of people who think crystals have healing power or there's ether in outer space.

>>3135846
Point is that certain styles like boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai, BJJ, and judo consistently work no matter the brand. They only lose if the rules are stacked to weaken them. Meanwhile, other shit like karate (except Kyokushin and kyokushin alone), TKD, kung fu, (((krav maga))), systema, tai chi, aikido, ad infinitum either get knocked out of the competition or have to modify themselves so much to work to the point there's no point in training them instead of an MMA core curriculum art.

It is disingenuous to portray mixed martial arts as being of any conceivable mix today. Nobody is thinking about somebody doing hapkido with a little shaolin five animals and Turkish oil wrestling. You say MMA and knowledgeable people automatically think BJJ, judo, boxing, wrestling... not whatever your main in Tekken or Street Fighter uses.