What is the main reason WWE is dying?

they took away storylines and substituted it by trying to present everything as a 'competition' between two 'top tier athletes' and they have commentary try to sell things as a legit sport rather than a fight which is the culmination between two characters.

they also have to keep doing 50/50 booking because if [iwc's flavor of the month guy] loses more than twice in a row they cry about him being buried

Wrestling isn't mainstream anymore

>too many manlets
>taking """""wimmyn's wrestling""""""""""" seriously
>178 different belts no-one cares about
>giving into the smark demands
>having 35 hours of TV a week and running the same matches over and over

Vince McMahon

>>2943609
>by trying to present everything as a 'competition' between two 'top tier athletes' and they have commentary try to sell things as a legit sport

Well this isn't accurate.

Vince sabotages his own product

>>2943621
Yeah remember "the smark demands" of a Jinder main event push?

>>2943629
Reddit "You Can't Hinder the Jinder" dot com?

>>2943638
>smarks
>plebbit

>>2943638
Literally a joke.

>>2943623
>Well this isn't accurate.
yes it is. they try to sell everyone as a credible competitor even when its a job guy. they talk about athleticism rather than stories. commentary used to explain the conflict and storyline which was the reason for fighting, now they just watch the match and try to make it seem like an actual sport while they're shilling whatever they're supposed to shill that week. they should be getting people invested in feuds and stories instead of calling it like a sport.

>>2943601
everything about it being shit

>>2943629
>you fat redditors won't boo heels
>work you through pushing someone you don't like
>you keep watching anyway
nbd

>>2943648
Reddit is Smark Central, they sent HHH a fucking fruit basket over NXT and they worship Meltz.

>>2943653
>reddito tries to defend his people

the in-ring performers only learned how to do gymnastics and not not how to stage a believable, entertaining fight.

The broadcast "talent"are generic corporate drones who appear more detached from the on-screen action than the CGI in Phantom Menace.

>>2943621
>The main event of Raw is Roman Reigns, the purest example of a mastodon in decades, a guy who is never around but it's big and one of Vince's faves and Samoe Joe doing the worst work of his life by being nothing but le choke man
>The main event of Smackdown is Randy fucking Orton, Jinder fucking Mahal and the Great fucking Khali
>Smarks demanded any of this

>>2943601
Writers are incompetent in storytelling. Like Linda said, WWE is a soap opera first and foremost. And if the writers fail to come up with characters with clear motivation and stories with predictably ended up to be good, viewers will be compelled to watch. They can throwaway dream matches every week, but if the story sucks and too convoluted, no normies bother too follow.

Wrestling is not cool.

>>2943662
Don't try to pin your autism making you unable to determine something is a joke on the Reddit boogeyman, faggot.

>>2943658
The only way you could think WWE is called like a sport is from WWE being the only program even remotely close to a sport that you watch.

>>2943661
>won't boo heels

Explain why anybody should cheer Roman "Attempted Vehicular Homicide" Reigns

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oh boy i can already tell how this threads gonna go
>bunch of people who started reading dirtsheets in the last 10 years act like insiders
>bunch of people who have never worked in wrestling act like bookers
>bunch of people who have no idea how business works try to point out the business mistakes of a billion dollar company

>>2943678
>Explain why anybody should cheer Roman "Attempted Vehicular Homicide" Reigns
lol i was thinking the same thing after bryan alverez said it first

>>2943674
You try to write a coherent narrative when a senile old man decides to change the finish of a title match in it's closing moments.

>>2943670
It's only now that Vince is finally telling the smarks to fuck off by bringing back Great Dimes Khali and pushing a stud like Jinder. He's only recently gone all in on Big Dog too, he's been too scared of the smarks which is why he didn't push Reigns too hard until now.

>>2943601
I would say not giving the hardcore what they want, and instead giving them what you think they want. It's factually proven that Reigns isn't driving people to the network, and he's often used as a catalyst for people (ie, hardcore fans) quitting the network all together.

They need to accept that wrestling isn't trendy any more and they'll never have the boom they had in the 90s. Sure, Cena managed to supplement the failing TV ratings by being a juggernaut when it came to merch, but the "new" Cena is causing failing TV ratings as well as lower merch sales, AND he isn't supplementing it with network subscribers, which is supposed to be their new revenue stream to replace the merch that Cena isn't bringing in anymore.

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>>2943677
>le reddito comes to 4chan to defend reddit

You can not make this stuff up, folks.

>>2943680
There are no formal qualifications required to be involved with rasslin'.

>>2943670
>Roman Reigns
>purest mastodon

A real mastodon doesn't need a padded vest

>>2943690
>>Roman Reigns
>>purest mastodon
Learn to read.

>>2943692
I was paraphrasing. How about (You) try refuting me instead?

>>2943687
>he's been too scared of the smarks which is why he didn't push Reigns too hard until now.

This is like the Poe's Law of /asp/ replies

>>2943688
Wrestling in the 90s wasn't trendy UNTIL it started the boom.

>>2943687
>he didn't push Reigns too hard until now.
I know you're doing the usual unfunny anti-smark bit from this board, but goddamn dude, you gotta at least try.

There are a lot of talent in the roster that WWE don't use and have only bought out contracts so they don't go to the indies.

Drew Macyntre is a prime example. Is he going to be a big deal in WWE? Hell no. Could he be a big deal in ICW? Absolutely. So what do WWE do? They buy out a contract simply so the competition can't have them. They can't keep doing this forever. These guys might be on lower wages than your top guys, but having 30 people on your payroll simply so your competition can't have them is ridiculous, and they clearly don't have the money for it anymore.

>>2943694
There's nothing to refute, the mastodon part referred to Strowman, you're a retard that can't interpret text.

>>2943682
Faces are supposed to be badasses who don't take any shit and believe the ends justify the means, just like Hogan played The Iron Sheik at his own game by fighting dirty to win. Obviously nu-males can't grasp this because they've got too much soy on the brain. This is why we lost Vietnam as well, yellow bellied phaggots.

>>2943694
I don't see your point. Wrestling wasn't trendy until it was trendy? Okay?

>>2943690
>There are no formal qualifications required to be involved with rasslin'.
You're not involved with rasslin'.

>>2943688
I'm not sure how they could drive people to take out subs on the network, though. Maybe after the TV deal is up they'll put Raw/SDL on the network live while a potential TV deal airs an edited version the next night. One things for sure, if they're going to keep this shit up, they're going to have to start appealing to the hard core fans and accept that the casuals aren't paying their bills

Superman punch to infinity

Women's wrestling will never not be terrible

>>2943704
You weren't even alive during 'Nam. And if (You) were that's even worse.

>>2943707
>the point
>yo' head

>>2943705
WCW & WWF both dug themselves out from a hole by-get this-actually putting out products that people wanted to see.

Wrestling didn't suddenly get declared "trendy" again, it made itself popular by getting better.

>>2943720
They should either go full Diva mode again, or train them to wrestler a more mat heavy technical style, focusing on submission.

I dunno about you guys, but I don't really enjoy watching Charlotte Flair nearly killing another woman with a botch power move.

>>2943716
>while a potential TV deal airs an edited version the next night.

kek WWE got fucking lowballed on their previous TV deal, had to add Hour 3 to RAW and broadcast Smackdown live because USA demanded it.

And you think any TV network is going to accept that offer?

LEL in a Cell

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>>2943720
>>2943731

Total Divas viewers aren't going to watch 5 hours of Pro Wrestling every week, no matter how much they pretend Sasha Banks vs Charlotte is a Main Event match. It's insulting that we are supposed to pretend "women can do just as good as men", while they do exactly the same thing as the men, at 1/4 speed while botching 6x as much.

>>2943735
I don't think they'll get close to what they got this time from their current network.

Maybe another network will be happy to pick up that train wreck.

>>2943609
50/50 booking is a problem, and they have no reason not to have Daniel Bryan throw Ellsworth into squash matches to get other guys over. Then you have guys who don't ever appear at all. Which is strange, because if they aren't working a program then they could be working singles matches. They should put over the guys that are in programs but also stay on screen and on people's minds.

>>2943739
*tips*

>>2943743
>Then you have guys who don't ever appear at all. Which is strange, because if they aren't working a program then they could be working singles matches.
They work dark matches you stupid fuck.

>>2943601
everything about it being shit

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>>2943744

People that think posts like "stupid smarks i can't watch my wrassling" don't make them smarks.

>>2943751
Probably not the best idea to post an image from a show where the women's match was clearly better than its main event.

>>2943743
trip off fatass

>>2943688

Ratings never failed under Cena, they failed after the invasion, and after Bryan had to quit and there was nobody left to save anyone from Roman Reigns.

Cena still sells more merch than anyone.
Ratings aren't falling or rising, thy are static after the rise of Smackdown, Cena certainly didn't lose ratings, not even Jinder did.

Not sure why you are trying to push the narrative of Cena flopping anything. Smackdown is the only thing that has moved up in any numbers in the past year plus.

>>2943767
Ratings dropped massively during the Cena reign of terror in 2007.

Cena is only atop the mountain because everybody else fell off or was thrown off.

>Smackdown is the only thing that has moved up in any numbers in the past year plus.

You mean the show that Cena wasn't even on for half of its rise?

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>>2943767
>Ratings never failed under Cena
Factually untrue
>Cena still sells more merch than anyone.
And? Selling the most while the entire sector is down isn't an achievement
>Not sure why you are trying to push the narrative of Cena flopping anything
Because Cena necessitated a change in WWE revenue streams

>>2943758
It's hard to find one where that isn't the case in the last 3 years desu.

>>2943758
>the women's match was clearly better than its main event.

I cry ever time

>>2943704

Soy doesn't actually have any effect even if you eat a pound a day, phytoestrogen doesn't do anything, everybody being a puss nowadays has nothing to do with that.

Don't try to be a food-smark unless you have inside sources like Dave Seltzer.

>>2943747
I go to the shows. They usually tape just one Main Event match right before the show and they use at most four people. The complete list of people who should have been pulled from every week to put over the guys with matches at Battleground was:
>Chad Gable (though they did use him a little)
>Dolph Ziggler
>Epico Colon
>Erick Rowan
>Fandango
>James Ellsworth
>Konnor
>Luke Harper
>Mojo Rawley
>Primo Colon
>Samir Singh
>Sin Cara
>Sunil Singh
>Tyler Breeze
>Viktor
>Zack Ryder
Why am I wrong for wanting Mojo or Tyler or somebody to put over Kanelis prior to Battleground instead of spoiling a part of the PPV by giving away Kanelis vs Zayn on free TV just to do a tired retread of an old story that gets done all the time. Oh wow, the fucking wife of the heel cheated during the match. Now the face has to get revenge and win at the PPV for the ultimate feelgood moment. Hooray! Even though I have no reason to give a shit about the heel yet because he never wrestles and I don't give a shit about the face because of he's not out kicking ass every night. Have Zayn go over Rowan in a big match or bump into an Ascension in the hallway and schedule a match later that night.

>>2943773

They maintain steady traction for the majority of his run up until it dips when he goes less active. Before that he was still on occasion popping ratings 750-1 million.

Interest in the product dipped with every other star leaving gradually over time, and even the Rock ended up not popping ratings as much as expected, now nobody pops rating.

The ratings never failed under him, you have a slow yet still safe decline in the worst period of PG, and only a real dip when Cena went less active.

Being top seller is always an achievement, though yes, Cena doesn't seem to have the superpower of bringing back all the viewers who deserted the shit product.

>>2943786
Probably because Kanellis is shit and shouldn't even be in WWE

>>2943601

What is complacency.

>>2943751
>look at those winner celebrating her victory with her friends
>wonder who the opponent was ?
>oh the won standing next to her celebrating yer loss

Fucking self-congratulatory cringe

>>2943801
>The ratings never failed under him
>you have a slow yet still safe decline

Hmm...

>>2943784
>like Dave Seltzer.

kek

>>2943771

I'm not attributing it to solely Cena, SD was a great show for a while with many people being elevated and some great moments.

They then killed that.

Cena would be the top guy regardless of who else was there, he was and is the most reliable guy, the easiest for them to market, very safe, very good at talking and very good in the ring.

And despite the crying online smarks end up secretly loving many of his matches.

There has been no better top-guy in the past fifteen years by far. The second place was Daniel Bryan, let that sink in.

>>2943808
Regardless of that, they had a PPV to sell and they should have made every match feel important. Two hours is a lot of time to work with if you don't do multiple recaps or repeat matches.

>>2943827
Batista was a solid choice and desu came off as the bigger star from 2005 until 2009-isH.

>the smarks really love him

stop

>>2943813
Yeah no men's match has EVER ended in the opponents celebrating together afterwards...

>>2943816

Failed doesn't mean a slight dip in overall ratings. During the time you see in that graph like even 2012-2013 Cena was popping ratings 300-1Million plus in solo segments.

Are you saying Cena was responsible for viewers staying during Funkasaurus or CM Phil whining for thirty minutes, or Hornswaggle etc?

>>2943833
They don't sell PPVs anymore in this Network Era

>>2943838
>CM Phil whining for thirty minutes

It's not your fault.

>>2943845
They don't sell tickets either apparently.

>>2943834

Batista couldn't talk until he came back, also ended up being better as a heel, same with Orton, both these guys were potential huge stars and everybody knew it, but they were botched to an extent and didn't put up with bullshit as much as Cena.

Just my opinion.

And no, I'm not saying smarks all love Cena, but everyone gets into his good matches or promos, denying this is hard, especially if you have been to the show.

>>2943851
>Batista couldn't talk until he came back,

Well this is flat-out untrue.

>>2943851
His "New Era is B.S." speech was the finest promo all year short of the Festival of Friendship.

>>2943834
>>2943813
Literally 76% of women match ends with one or both of them crying and having a hugfest after. Disgoosting.

>>2943601
It's fucking boring, repetitive and everything they do means nothing overall.

>>2943874
Show your working.

>>2943609
>they took away storylines and substituted it by trying to present everything as a 'competition' between two 'top tier athletes' and they have commentary try to sell things as a legit sport rather than a fight which is the culmination between two characters.
Incorrect.

>they also have to keep doing 50/50 booking because if [iwc's flavor of the month guy] loses more than twice in a row they cry about him being buried
Correct.

>>2943859

Most of his promos came with a cadence similar to William Shatner in Star Trek

He had good moments, mostly non-verbal or later as a heel but couldn't hold the mic down like he would need to to carry a show weekly for years.

>>2943862

They were more than two years apart butI don't blame you for mixing together all of that time which was mostly boring drivel.

>>2943751
and people wonder why becky, bayley, and banks aren't champions

curtain call 2.0 imo

>>2943601
the booking is awful, which makes the show boring as fuck, the casuals don't watch it because they have 200 other better things to watch. simply that

>>2943751
holy fucking cringe

>>2943609
It's more that they're trying to have their cake and eat it too, here.

They're trying to do "legit sport" and "sports entertainment" at the same time and it ain't working because the legit sport aspect stops the sports entertainment aspect from getting too whacky and the sports entertainment aspect undercuts the tone of the legit sport aspect.

They gotta pick one, basically.

But their main problem is they can't book babyfaces to save their lives. That and their writing is fake and corporate as fuck.

The rest of television has increased in scope and quality. Even the worst of popular shows are likely to be better than the best episodes of WWE weekly TV today.

One simple reason is the fact that those shows give the majority of their fans what they want while Vince has not done that in a while now.

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>>2943697

>>2943621
/thread

>>2943601
>pic related
>Jinder, the guy who was pinned clean by El Torito, is WWE Champion
>50 different titles that don't mean shit and can't even fit on the same card because there's too many of them
>Natalya, the girl who was pinned clean by El Torito, gets a singles match at Summerslam
>Feuds that never fucking end
>Too many commercials
>20 womens segments every Smackdown when better wrestlers like Harper can't even make the show
>The Cruiserweight division failed, release the Cruiserweights and have Neville become IC champion
>Two dead tag divisions instead of a unified division with more than 4 teams
>"Womens Revolution", "Women Making History", Women main eventing ANYTHING
>WWE and Triple H getting on their knees and begging any relevant sports star to come to their shows
>The last 4 WWE champions sucking
>The only 4 Universal Champions sucking
>Bringing back trash like Hawkins and Jinder

>>2944660

Writing is complete garbage, they can't book to save their lives, but the people who are playing the roles aren't allowed to develop their own fucking characters.

Vince and Steph need to go and everyone who writes their godawful scripts needs to go back to school to learn basic storytelling.

>>2943751

Becky and her autism. Can't she just stand still for a fuckin second?

>>2943808
This

>>2943601
Its shit

>>2943687

>implying vince hasn't been trolling the smarks for ages

Come on now, that's just silly

>>2943758

>Women's first MITD match!
>History being made!
>ellsworth

It's really weird how WWE intentionally shoots itself just for a shitty joke.

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>CM Punk is the perfect example of the decline in pro-wrestler standards. It used to be that you had to be legit tough to be a pro-wrestler, often with an amateur or some other shoot background.

>Now it's mostly just wrestling fans who become wrestlers, so they get rekt in any kind of real combat. There are a handful of legit guys who are pro-wrestlers, but it's mostly nerds LARPing being a tough guy.

>Back in the day you only made someone your champ if you knew they could handle themselves in a real fight, so that if someone decided to shoot on them they could deal with it.

A good summation of the decline in pro-wrestling in general. Basically the marks got in the ring.

>>2944890
Who said that? They sound Based.

>>2944900
literally me. I just copy pasted it from where I said it in /heem/ on /sp/.

They don't hire big guys anymore

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>>2943601
Too many hours of weekly tv.
Seeing the same fkn people week after week without a break. You'd be surprised how excited you are to see someone when you havent seen them in three weeks.

Fifty fifty booking where wins and losses mean jack shit.
Booking the same matches over and over, including tag team and multiman match variations.
No more blading, swearing and weapons matches.
No JR, No Stone Cold... what I mean by that is no reallllly funny and exciting personalities allowed to just be themselves on the mic.
Unfunny, unintelligent announcers with weak voices.

This is getting too long fuck....

>>2944273
No they weren't? One happened in January and the other happened in March. Both happened this year.

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Because this is what a champ looked like in the 80's...

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>>2947947
and this is what a champ looks like now.

>>2943601
Vince. When he dies I ding-dong diddly guarantee the quality of the show will go up

>>2944890
Hogan wasn't legit or from a shoot background.

>>2947947
>>2947953
>one of them could go for over half-an-hour and throw around heavyweights like they're nothing
>the other got blown up doing his entrance

>>2943680
Here's a plate full of shit Anon, but remember, you are not a chef so you are not allowed to criticise or point out that it is in fact a plate full of shit.

You are a legit brainwashed cult member btw.

>>2943704
>blaming the loss of Vietnam war on Millenials.
You are literally just spouting shit now to get reactions, none of this makes a lick of sense.

Is this how you imagined your life was gonna turn out? Like, for real?

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>>2944890
R E N T F R E E

E

N

T


F

R

E

E

>>2944890
>unironically parroting Jim Cornette who stole that line from Dutch Mantel about le marks in teh ring meme
It is genuinely sad how your entire perspective and fandom on wrestling is simply you parroting other people you think makes you sound smart.
You may as well hold up a giant neon sign that says "GOD HELP ME I AM SO DUMB I NEED TO SOUND INFORMED SOMEONE PLEASE GOD HELP ME"

>>2944890
>>2944900
>>2944918
>samefagging this hard
>"wow who wrote that, they sound cool and smart"
>"it was literally me."
>"wow you are so cool and smart"
just end your life man.
Imagine explaining to a mental health professional that this is how you spend your days.
What would you actually say to them?
>"I pretend to be other people on the Internet and compliment myself on fake fighting message boards to impress 3 other people"