What is your honest opinion on flips?

add nothing to the move
just make wrestling look fake

>>2896817
They belong in gymnastics, diving and circus shows. They serve no purpose in a sport where the supposed object is to hurt your opponent. In kayfabe terms, a straight splash from King Kong Bundy would do a ton more damage than a flying double pike corkscrew plancha moonsault by Jushin Thunder Rey Midgetio

t. revival

TNA's prime X-division did it right. However, Modern AJ Styles is a good example of Powerhouse+Flips. Hits hard & flips minimal.

what does doing a flip do for you in a fight? It doesn't make any sense

Flips are cool but need to be used sparingly. A lot of guys nowadays don't even bother trying to tell stories because they're athletic and can do all these crazy moves. That attitude will kill wrestling in the long term.

>>2896831
Pro wrestling is a circus show, not a sport.
Flips are fine and fun to watch.
I will always be more impressed by guys who display freakish athleticism like doing flips than guys who are just TALL or BEEG.
It takes much more skill and athleticism to be a flippyshit than to just be tall or big muscles.

>>2896865
That's what I agree with. Flips are fine, I can suspend disbelieve enough to buy in the flips adding "momentum". The problem is when it's only flips it loses all spontaneously.

Now if we can ban that horribly overdone suicide dive between the ropes I will be all for that.

File: bucks flips.png (43KB, 628x293px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 628x293px

I can't watch wrestling without flips.

>>2896817
Don't like them.

>>2896866
No it doesn't. In theory, just running at 500 lbs is harder than triple flipping at 150. Olympic gymnasts are all midgets. The sport is about damaging people or looking like they are doing damage to knock them senseless enough to perform a pin. Size = force of impact.

Like any move, depends on the time and place you use them. The one in your post, AJ's springboard 450 splash to the outside was incredible and made the audience lose their shit. But AJ did also get a minor foot injury from it that had him miss a couple weeks of action.

I don't mind the idea that the flashier a move looks, the more damaging it is, that's a tenet of all kinds of different fiction. I can suspend my disbelief. Just don't overdo it and for the love of god, protect your head and neck.

>>2896883
From now on, only Luke Harper can do the suicide dive.

>>2896891
Professional wrestling is not a sport.

>>2896892
AJ has more technical moves in his arsenal though. He isn't all flips. Plus he looks believable when fighting larger opponents. A lot of small guys cannot pull it off. HBK is included in the small club.

>>2896899
> has refs
> has commentators that treat it like a sport with exaggerated feuds and characters
> has rule book even though it is always changing.

It is a sport. There are a lot of rigged sports that people watch for entertainment.

>>2896900
funny how aj is known as a flipz guy but he's a low-tier flipz guy. even in his younger tna years, compared to some of guys today, he's at best mid-tier

>>2896912
But wrestling is OPENLY rigged. It's pretty much just a live TV show with more athleticism than you can see anywhere else.

>>2896912
>>2896921
it's a *presentation* of a sport.
>It's pretty much just a live TV show
this is what happens when you're indoctrinated by WWMEME. Daniel Bryan said it best that WWMEME is a parody of pro-wrestling.

Stupid shit like "ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my wife's black son" is not pro-wreslting. it's a fucking terrible sitcom.

>>2896921
It is based in real sport. Wrestling just became progressively more rigged over time because that made promoters more money. It has always been a sport and wrestlers have always viewed themselves as athletes more than actors. To this day they take pride in being "legitimately tough" and able to "hook" people when needed.

>>2896921
> not a sport
> WWE always says Wrestlemania is like their Super Bowl
> called sports entertainment
> can be called that without having any sporting aspect whatsoever

>>2896935
shoot wrestling without MMA fisticuffs is some of the most boring drawn out shit ever. Thank goodness wrestling is rigged and "slam bang" (George Hackenschmidt's term) wrestling won out.

1920s wrestling for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQl6mmAtkbE

Back in the day they were reckless as fuck so it looked better.

The spots are so set up the other wrestler is literally standing there waiting for it to happen and they don't even care if you see it that way

WWE is not a sport. It's a soap opera with wrestling elements.

>>2896978
> WWE Inc used to be called Titan SPORTs

>>2896900
Yes, AJ has an extremely diverse arsenal and he's a master of psychology, so when he does go for a flip, it feels earned. It's a huge part of why he's one of the best in the world.

>>2896912
It's a TV show about a wrestling show.

>>2896817
If I see a single flip I groan loudly, turn off the TV and pace around for a few minutes.

>>2896866
Eagles are more impressive when they fly than gnats are.

>>2896994
Hi, Max!

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34KB, 600x400px

>>2896969
You NEED to see the worked shoot wrestling from Japan in the late 80s and 90s. That stuff is awesome. It's basically like worked MMA.

>>2896817
Tasteful if done sparingly

Seeing every wrestler in the main event with a suicide dive is pure cringe, especially when they do it after their opponent was working the legs like Ambrose does every week

>>2896831
>a fat piece of shit landing on you would hurt more than a junior heavyweight

>>2896994
>It's a TV show about a wrestling show

No, that would be G.L.O.W. or even Lucha Underground, WWE is strictly an "Entertainment" company featuring "Sports Entertainment" which is really nothing like pro wrestling at all anymore, it does not even qualify as a wrestling show.

TNA is also run similarly like this, but basically is a watered down version of WWE with *some* rasslin' elements. ROH however is mostly rasslin' based with some WWE elements, like the opposite of TNA, but mostly both focus on in-ring competition. NJPW, like most puroresu (Japanese wrestling) is the closest thing you'll get to a "wrestling show" nowadays, with mostly a pure sports presentation and the Championships and tournaments are held to higher standards. Then you've got lucha libre in Mexico which is a mixed bag of sorts, but wrestling is still the main priority there too I guess.

Different promotions fall under different categories, housing different styles and genres of pro-wrestling all over the world.

>>2896884

Didn't Cornett shit all over the NJPW show because the first two matches where 5 man tags with a bunch of high flying spots

>>2897859
Yes, cause he never saw NJPW show before and doesn't know how the show is structured. And that fans are prepared for something like hot opener, then cooldown period with some good spots and wrestling and buildup to semi-main and main event.

They appeal to the nu-meta of fans who were born after 1999

>>2897102
you're fucking retarded. it's 100% a show about a wrestling company. kurt angle isn't really the general manager of raw. he's playing a character that is. it's 100% as he described it and you sound like a fucking buffoon.

>>2897989
>kurt angle isn't really the general manager of raw. he's playing a character that is

Nothing I said even contradicted that you idiot, most Entertainment shows are scripted and that's what WWE view their show as, Entertainment. I don't know what you're babbling on about.

>it's 100% as he described it

No it isn't. Not at all. Re-read my comment, WWE isn't a show about wrestling anymore and they will even tell you so themselves, hasn't been for literally years.

>>2897910
>flips didn't get over in the mid-late 90s

18+

Should be banned from wrestling.
Headlocks are better.

They're fine. People like to claim they're unrealistic, but they're no less realistic than submission moves that are clearly putting no pressure on the opponent and power moves that would have basically the same impact to the user as the recipient.

>>2896821
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but wrestling is fake.

If you want to watch real wrestling, watch real wrestling. It's that simple boys

>>2896969
>shoot wrestling without MMA fisticuffs is some of the most boring drawn out shit ever.
Yes and no. If you have two master grapplers going at it in a shoot-style match then it's a thing of beauty and art (watch any Han vs. Tamura match). But if you have two clunkers in the ring with little to no grappling ability trying to have a grapple-fest then it indeed can be a huge fucking bore. Especially if they're booked to go a long time.

>>2896821
Gymnasts perform flips to impress the crowd, why do you think wrestling used to be a side act in the circus?

Nothing a "flippy manlet" does is faker than an Irish whip.

>>2896817
The same opinion I have on submission or brawling. Make it matters in the match, pace it correctly, and I have no problem with it.
Otherwise, while I don't religiously watch CMLL or other lucha promotions, I can make an exception for the flips because that's what the crowds like.

>>2902248
I should point out here that as far as lucha goes, it's not ALL flips. The reason CMLL has been around for 80+ years is because it's not all "ricochet vs ospreay", but you normally have it set up so you have tecnicos/faces that are athletic and can flip vs rudos/heels who are more ground&pound. It feels more real like that, instead of something overly rehearsed like you get coming from two guys who work an acrobatic style.

Plus, even CMLL limits the amount of dives allowed during shows. First match almost always teases them, but rarely gets them, and they're sprinkled throughout the card and given to luchadores who they can trust to do this. A lot of them are also trained in amateur wrestling along with lucha libre (depending on the gym, most teach them side by side), so their mat work is actually incredibly decent depending on who's working.

CMLL though is a very traditional version of lucha libre, and you have a lot of OOOLLD guys working the card who value slowing things down and limiting flips and dives, and they normally get the best matches out of the young guys, Negro Casas and Negro Navarro are both two good examples of that.

On the other hand, you have AAA which has tried to move forward with their style of wrestling, they do a lot more dangerous, high risk spots, a lot more dives and flips and a LOT more hardcore matches. A lot of indies are essentially "how many kip ups, back flips, and arm drags can I fit into my match?", but there are some pretty good ones out there.

Lucha libre is actually pretty diverse when it comes to wrestling.

>>2896866
Hi vince

>>2896846
This, too much exposes the fact that wrestling is fake.

>>2896817
It draws dimes.

>>2902208
>>2902208
>>2902208
T H I S

>>2902304
t. Retard

this is what the opposite of what vince would say

i think they should keep it mostly to the woman's wrestling. the gymnastic nature gives them a unique selling point and it looks good for them.

it looks faggy when men do flying head scissor, etc.

lucha is cancer.

>>2903648
eeeer... you know flying headscissors were a thing like in seventies? Fucking seventies. It's nothing new.

>>2903648
Disavow what I just said, I enjoy fellating large phalus.

>>2903690

misquote? im afraid i don't know how that follows what i said.

>>2903718
No I was saying, that men were doing headscissors several decades ago. It's now a staple in prowrestling, you can't turn back time to forties and fifties.
Sorry if it came out differently. But you are correct in that women wrestling should have some different moveset. Sasha is prime example. Not many men wrestlers can bend their body as she can. Also Charlotte taking Bank Statement the way she just bends, that is prime example.

Fuck I don't understand why WWE haven't ever tried getting Olympic gymnasts into their development programs. Those people can do incredible stuff.

>>2896817
They used to be cool, but now they do it too much so it just becomes boring.

I for one support the No Fly Zone.

Gulak is a hero.

>>2903455
Thats why he pushes vanilla midgets like finn balor

>>2896817
Theyre cool when they come as a surprise... like AJ's 450 on Dean. Using flips and planchas through a whole match like theyre punches and kicks is really boring. Quality over quantity, u know?

Mexican lucha thing is unwatchable with constant flips.

When used sparingly they're pretty cool, but when there's 20 a match it's just boring.

>>2898049
>and they will even tell you so themselves
This is more to do with Vince desperately seeking mainstream acceptance than anything else.

>>2896817
Should be used sparingly.

>>2896831
WWE is a circus though. It's run by a literal carny.

If the wrestler has other moves. Jeff Hardy, for example, has flips and WitW?

>>2904072
>>2904103
Agreed, they need to be some kind of peak point in the match and not just something they do every now and then. Some kind of act of desperation or something that improves the narrative of the match. A build-up toward highlights like that are more exciting than just one flip after another

Then again when I was like ten I thought flippy ninja guys were really cool, I liked Rey Mysterio a lot on Smackdown. And they're a pretty big part of the audience so I guess they need to cater to them as well. I would probably have been all over Lucha Underground if it existed back then, whereas I don't like it at all now

>>2904283
Rey on Smackdown was like the one guy who had a unique flippy move set. It was his way of dealing with being uniquely small, so he had to out maneuver all the bigger guys, so the style worked, and it made total sense.

Even WCW cruiserweights in the 90s didnt overdo flips, and could work great matches.

At this point, flipping for flipping's sake feels like a dead meme. Lucha Underground can be hard to watch, And AAA and CMLL is a pointless flippy circus with no rhyme or reason.

>>2904352
t. never watched any lucha