kung fu, karate, kwan ki do, wing chun, tae kwon do, cma, whatever

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sad that this thread is doomed
thanks gookmoot

>>2782584

the forms in Chinese derived arts are often misunderstood. many of them such as in tai chi, or about doing every movement with the 6 harmonies in tact. If you've ever tried to do that you know that they are pretty much impossible to maintain under stress without a pretty comprehensive conditioning and retraining regime, because its just not how most people move in their everyday lives. Mastery of those solo forms however was never considered equlivalent to being able to fight. Wrestiling, paired drills and even real fights with those from other schools were--historically--essential parts of the training.

Karate and southern kung fu styles like wing chun--many would argue--do not do ^ harmony movement, but are still set up on a similar model.

Imagine if you will someone approaching this stuff like guy expecting to get into a lot of fights. He might grind out several hourd of solo and supplementary training every day. then go to class several times a week, receive corrections, train and fight with other students.

That is to my understanding how they were practiced before they were fossilized cultural oddities.

Jigoro kano created the forms to teach body mechanics and technical differences between throws. He instituted randori so his students would learn how to use the techniques and not just have the following generations wank off to forms.

Nice Yuki Nagato, faggot

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>>2782632
>1) The hands harmonize with the feet.
>2) The hips harmonize with the shoulders.
>3) The elbows harmonize with the knees.
>1) The heart harmonizes with the intention.
>2) The intention harmonizes with the Chi.
>3) The Chi harmonizes with the movement.
That's a lot of stuff to be thinking about while in a fight

>That is to my understanding how they were practiced before they were fossilized cultural oddities.
They definitely were considered a more serious thing, I'm sure that if they met forms how they're understood today they'd discard them immediately

>>2783960
Thanks anon

do filipino clock systems count as a form

>>2783994
>That's a lot of stuff to be thinking about while in a fight

Its far to much to think about when fighting or even doing most two person drills without the other guy tanking for you. It idea is to retrain how you move so its automatic or nearly so.

In addition many of the muscle groups needed for it are horribly neglected. especially in modern people. Most people are two tight to use the kua properly, and to tense to relax onto their structure, and not flexible enough to use the legs and shoulders properly. they need to be retrained, often starting from scratch.

>>2782584

Jab-Cross-Hook.

This ancient kata has many applications, philosophies, and ideas.

Some people say that the jab is used as a psychological attack, distracting your opponent, setting up other attacks.
By following with the cross, you deliver more damage to your opponent, thanks to the set up with the jab, and you really add the psychological trauma there, your opponent starts to break down physically, mentally, and spiritually. Having hit your opponent with strong energy unexpectedly, you are able to close the distance and come in with a power shot, the hook, finishing your opponent.

>>2784380
>Its far to much to think about when fighting
Don't be a brainlet, gain height.

>>2784562
lol

Does nobody here practices choy lee fut?

Everybody around here believes CMA are just this slow ballet-esque movements, and every time I bring how sanda or choy lee fut are full contact and much more closer to kickboxing and MMA, I usually get this "you kidding" stare...

>>2785211
I think everyone agrees Sanda is legit

bymp

>>2784097
Looks more like a drill

>>2785211
Perhaps, you will take it upon yourself to carry the torch of knowledge up the mountain of enlightenment.
To enlighten others is to enlighten one's self.

>>2785290
Yeah, but Choy lee fut is also legit, yet I almost never see anyone admitting is a good system... or even exists

>>2787650
>or even exists
I've only heard of it because I browsed the forms thread of the martial arts threads of the alternative sports board of the Japanese-based anonymous image board of the internet of the human dominant part of the planet of the solar system of the small part of the arm of the galaxy of this part of the universe.

>>2787650
Most people don't know it exists dude. Most people don't even know more famous styles like hung gar. Even most people that know of hung gar have never heard of xing yi or pi gua.

1-1-2-3

>>2783551
>Jigoro kano created forms

You realize kata and randori existed in jujutsu long before kano, right?

>>2788861
>kata existed in jujutsu
Are there examples?

>>2789541
Judo holds tournaments for kata based off jujitsu

A lot of Judo kata champs are former or reigning regular champs. kata is used as a demonstration tool and most elite judoka can demo/teach their technique really well

They can go full blast/speed and shove your head into the pavement or in terms of kata/demo go very slow motion to annunciate the details .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqIOxVwXwzY

>>2789541
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhTpeCdANzA

this is one of the styles of jujutsu jigoro kano studied before creating judo.

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>>2789550
I hate kata as a demonstration art. Kata were meant to be flexible based on the body type and experience level of the participants. In judo and classical jujutsu they were supposed to teach things hard to teach in randori, things like naiki application, and techniques that are not very relevant to shiai like armored grappling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx23BoTIJ0s

>>2789595
From what I understand his teacher at the time was very old and died before passing on the entire system. The itutsu no kata are actually from the upper levels of this style.

His kito ryu teacher on the other hand continued to stop by and help him train people at the early kodokan.

In early demonstrations they mostly showed kata from kito ryu The first kata Kano developed himself were the Ju no kata and the now unofficial go no kata, which all students were expected to learn first.

Ive also read by the age of fourty kano's training was mostly kata geiko, though understandably he was very into shiai as a young man. Another little known fact is several kata based classical weapons arts were also taught within the Kodokan such as shinto muso ryu and katori shinto ryu. Kano had some interest in classical sword work but was apparently not very good at it, or he just didn't have the time to devote to it.

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My best friend went over my house and he was saying that he watched Haruhi so I asked him who was his favorite character, so then he said Yuki. So I said, "You know I have the same hairstyle as her." He said, "Hahaha, you do, that's fucked up. You look like a total girl. Why don't you just cut it off and get a real man's hair cut?" We both laughed and then I said, "You know with a little work, I could actually look like Yuki for you." Then everything went silent and he gave me a look that could kill. But I just kept going. "Yeah, I could dye my hair, cosplay, and even..." Then I took the glasses from his face and wore them. "I could pretend to be Yuki for you, if you wanted me to."

Then I suddenly realized what I just said to him and stopped talking. It was the most awkward moment ever in my life. My friend just stared with no expression on his face. Then after a few seconds, I made a weak laugh and said, "Yeah. That was pretty gay," then took the glasses off my face, gave them back to him, and we watched TV without talking. Minutes later, he said he had to go and it wasn't even late. I said, "Oh okay," with another weak laugh. He said that he had to go somewhere tomorrow but I knew the real reason. Now my friend thinks I'm gay for him. What do?

Pic related. It's me dressed as Yuki.

>>2782584
How do you know you're training the real deal and not just some watered down version of the original thing?

>>2790963
Is this copypasta?

>>2790880
>Another little known fact is several kata based classical weapons arts were also taught
Those would be interesting to see

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>>2791620
For karate, I just looked at many versions on youtube and their ancestry.

I'll go on a tangent here with my experience
Starting from shotokan katas, I considered who supposedly introduced them, Funakoshi Gichin. Looked at who taught him: Anko Itosu and Anko Asato (This guy's katas come from Matsumura Sokon)
Then I looked at who Anko Itosu and Asato also taught to: Itosu taught to Chosin Chibana, Asato to no one, but Matsumura's lineage was passed to Hohan Soken along the years.

By looking at the differences, you can pinpoint where divergences happened and if you're lucky, why.

Luckily there are videos of Funakoshi doing katas.
So right from these and the modern ones, you see that stances got longer and everything became a lot stiffer.
Assuming Chibana's versions are the ones Itosu did (probably they were modified a bit) and comparing them, you see that Funakoshi already favored medium stances rather than very short ones. Some techniques were made clearer.
Some katas though, were rather different, and here comes Hohan Soken (and others, but let's keep it simple), where we can find those same differences, you could deduct that these come from Funakoshi following Asato's katas.
Some katas of his come from Tomari area, so you go look at tomari descendants, etc.

If I only compared modern versions with Chibana's I'd come to the conclusion that they were all badly modified, but with the whole image you see they're even more true to the originals than Chibana's.

So the big change happened after Gichin Funakoshi, and we get a big hint from articles about his son which claim he introduced high kicks and longer-reaching punches, and trained almost exclusively the latter rather than sort techniques. It's clear the stances and techniques are wider to take into account longer-reaching punches, and the awkward sections are because of this.

Result: they're not the real deal but they're not as bad as you'd expect

>>2791720

The man in the video taught at the kodokan as a young man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgLOcbj7U1g

Sugino learned the basics of katori shinto ryu at the kodokan though eventually traveled for more advanced instruction. He actually choreographed many of the kurozawa movies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoBIJyWKIUY

>>2788861
I'm talking specifically about judo kata. If you could not infer that from the my referencing Kano, then you are objectively stupid.

>>2793059
You're still wrong then, koshiki no kata literally comes sttaight from kito ryu jujutsu.

https://youtu.be/rPpn5NrFtXk

https://youtu.be/8OFQezNC0HA
https://youtu.be/XrLDzQohZYs

>>2793386
Again, I am specifically talking about judo kata. In your fervor to be right about something on the internet, you have twice overlooked that which you have tried to address and, consequently, made it clear that you are objectively stupid.

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>>2793678
>koshiki no kata isn't a judo kata

Anon, pls...stop

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>>2793870
>>2793678
Not to mention the fact that >>2793386 literally has video of jigoro kano demonstrating koshiki no kata

>>2793872
I think his point was that kano didn't develop the koshiki no kata, he took them from the kito ryu.

>>2790963
How does Yuki fight again?

>Yoki is based girl

>>2793905
Thats what im arguing. Hes been saying the opposite since >>2783551

>>2793905
So, t's still a judo kata or not?

>>2790963
muh dick

>>2794893
It wouldn't be in the curriculum if it wasnt.

>>2794893
Well of course it is, Kano was too systematic a mind to include something in the curriculum without a clear reason.

>>2790963
>>>/a/

>>2795688
We don't want their kind in there.

>>2795688
Yuki is quite the martial artist.