Eternal HEMA General: Proper Structure Edition

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Have you trained your takedowns today?

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>>2686886
medieval manga is best manga

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>>2686974
oh yeah

>>2687027
source on that pic please?

>>2687038
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/magazine-25214557/welsh-church-uncovers-stunning-medieval-wall-paintings

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I really like Paulus Hector Mair!

>>2687027
>dounle_hits_are_the_work_of_satan.,jpg

Is there some big event going on in sweaty-man-drama land? The last thread died real quick.

>>2687697
Why do puffy Meyer pants get all the attention, when puffy Mair sleeves are much cooler?

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>>2687785
Because Meyer is low drag high speed asskicker, while Mair is a fashion queen.

>white people

>>2686968
but which takedowns? long binds aren't the norm

>>2687799
High binds are pretty common, where one guy rushes in. There's plenty you can do from there, but most people don't train it. Can't tell how the one in the gif started because it's too fucking short.

Hey I know this isn't completely relevant but was wandering if you guys knew about a Battle of Nations like event before the end of this month?

I think it's in Finland or Poland, there are no Russians and I was wondering if I could find it on Youtube

>>2686968
>>2687871
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4ulPYAG1Qk
1:20

>>2687901
different angle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6VNTJOfHgE
1:13

>>2686886
There's some serious wushu going on in there.

>>2688165
It is a knight of the shaolin order.

>>2687793
>non-white people

But in all honesty, I love it when Asians are into HEMA <3

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>puffy pants
>on girls
God damn it, I've got a new fetish.

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Tell me about Dussack, why does it look so fun?

>>2689285
because it is. use leather dussacks and light protection. The pain feedback will teach you a lot about the importance of proper defense.

>>2689300
The leather dussacks seem so...small.

>>2687897
There is a tournament in Denmark, atm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC6Pn3mO-hY

>>2689300
This, watch your offhand thought.
light gloves+botched hand position+leather dussacks=broken fingers

>>2689392
Thank you, I think this was it. How long has it been on?
Wondering how much I've missed. Does it have 5v5?

>>2689461
It started today but I don't know what they're going to do. I just found the link scrolling on fb and remembered someone asked about it here.

>>2689867
It's cool, I opened the stream and found what they had on. There was a thread on /int/ too. Thanks again

I did some Marozzo spear and shield and it's cool af

>>2690593
I tried some Marozzo spadone and it cool as f too.

>>2687901
>>2687906
Not cool Ties, dick move. The ref called break twice before you slammed your opponent on the hard floor. Judges are too lax about takedowns after break is called. If it had been a sword strike, it would have been penalised for sure, but takedowns make the audience clap so they let it go. Not good.

>>2690703
Damn, you're right. I merely thought the takedown was gifted because, damn, that rushing and stance were bad.

Is there HEMA bayonet? and if so, which?

>>2691028
>Is there HEMA bayonet?
Yes.

>if so, which?
What?

>>2691388
like, what doctrine of bayonet? USA and France had bayonet fencing, more modern ones are snip and stab, Japan has Jukendo, etc.

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>>2691648
Why though? At least contribute to a discussion or start a new one!

Would you guys use pic related?
I'd love to use protective puffy pants, but these aren't puffy and colorful enough

>>2691767
Not puffy enough. Just strings of fabric on regular pants.

>>2691792
>Not puffy enough.
This!

The HEMA community needs puffy fencing pants!

Swordfish registration will open next week for a chosen few and in three weeks for everyone

>https://www.reddit.com/r/wma/comments/6dg44x/registration_for_swordfish_2017_will_open_in_a/

>>2690703
He smashed Lopes, everyone is cool with that.

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>>2691767
I bought them a couple of weeks ago when Neyman did a discount on their store. Still waiting for them to arrive. 800N puffy pants when?

Puffy pants are a bad idea for actual fencing. loose cloth everywhere where blades can get entangled and stuff.

>>2692535
Meyer used to wear puffy pants, and I'm not going to contradict good old Joachim

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>>2692612
You should. There is only two outfits to do real fencing, either skin tight Lycra and a cup, or then buttnaked.

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>>2692896

>>2692896
>>2692904
Good points
But now I want fancy plumes on my mask

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>>2693066
forgot the pic

>>2693066
no you can't have plumes. but you can have a fancy balloon if you'd like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNnTyOH-D0o

>>2692535
historically swordsmen often fought and trained in highly flamboyant dress

>>2693210
Yes, that does not make it necessarily a good idea. snug and tight is preferable for fencing.
Flamboyant clothing does not win you fights.

>>2693574
>Flamboyant clothing does not win you fights.
Maybe not, but they can make you look baller.

>>2691416
I'm still not sure I understand you, but regardless, I don't know much about bayonet, just that there is at least one source that a guy I know had been messing around with. I've not bugged him for the details.

>>2693694
doubtful and its a pain in the ass when your opponents blade gets entangled all the time.
Rater invest in a custom Gambeson.

>>2694567
Why is it a pain? If they can't control their sword enough to keep it out of your pants, they deserve to get hit.

>>2695379
Fuck you, you fucking fuck.

>>2694567
>>2695554
>getting your "sword" tangled up in your opponent's pants
Sounds like florist degeneracy, to me.

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>tfw longsword bores you
I I know I could still get better but it just seems so plain compared to other weapons now.

>>2696231
Playing around with other weapons every now and then is good for you. You get better in the art, and you don't get bored.

>>2696231
>tfw longsword bores you
iktf
I mean, I enjoy doing it, but I'm not really driven to learn much more of it than the basics.
I mean shit, I teach my local Lichtenboo's clubs messer/dussack class because I do broadsword and stuff, and they've become so paralysed on the minute details of longsword they barely realise other info is contained in the other weapons.
I literally had a 20 minute debate that a style of Hanging Guard IS in german longsword, but the dude kept saying it was an "artefact" of my "unpopular and inferior" prefered system.
And honestly, if I was going to do a system of sword that needed two hands, I'd just do Great Sword/Montante/Spada du Mani.

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>>2696415
>I literally had a 20 minute debate that a style of Hanging Guard IS in german longsword, but the dude kept saying it was an "artefact" of my "unpopular and inferior" prefered system.
>an artefact
>Found named as such in one the later most popular german longsword source
What...? I must be missing something.

>>2696470
Hangetort, while popular and useful, is seen as an Ochs variant for most of the Lichtenauer tradition, only the Marksbrüder lineage took it up as a full fledged Hut.

Poleaxe is fun, FUN!

>>2697469
I worked on the "le jeu de la hache" and I say you're goddam right

>>2697679
>try to whack the guy on the head with the hammer
>he blocks
>kick his poleaxe to the side with the butt of your weapon
>resume whacking the aforementioned partner on the head
I discovered "le jeu de la hache" today, my goodness polearms are not allowed to be this fun, it's going to be bad for my mental health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jOAjb5zJkQ

So what other systems can you smash through in a couple months?

>>2697693
what do you use as simulators? and what for head protection?

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Need a bit of help.

How do I learn sword and buckler (any system) as a lefty at a club that doesn't teach sword and buckler at all? Most of the stuff that I am seeing in I.33 makes no sense unless both are same-handed. I can't just switch everything around like I have been doing with longsword v longsword.

Hema thread over in /k/
>>>/k/34094979

>>2698824
don't spread the thread even thinner

>>2697788
Viggiani and Dall'Agocchie's quick lesson are very close to what is demonstrated here (two guards, limited blow) but what is a bigger use of the point obviously.
Fiore's sword in one hand as well.

All of those and Talhoffer's messer are somehow based on what Mele's been calling the 'universal parry' mind you.

>>2698824
>in /k/
try /his/, /k/ is shit tier.

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>>2698607
>Need a bit of help.
Being a disgusting lefty shit is your problem. You should take professional help to solve this, 6 months in a north korean re-education camp will make you a handsome, normal right hand man.

>>2698456
They had us use a bunch of different simulators to show us how different they felt. I personally tried the simple staff, staff + foam, staff + foam + electric tape and the purple heart armouries rubber blunt. The rubber blunts are truly superior in terms of feeling but they pack quite a punch, and in all honestly I think you can just use fencing masks with some form of leather overlay or the spes ones and be perfectly fine as long as you do not try to crush the other guy.

giving you fags a bump

>>2699778
>as long as you do not try to crush the other guy.
which means only friendly sparring and not full out testing.

>>2700209
cheers

>>2700767
When I say crush I mean instead of hitting, you try to bring his head below his knees by pushing like a tard.

>>2692044
Still not what you expect from someone with experience. Never cool to slam people after break. Look at Axel Petterson's face after it happens. Says it all.

>>2699262
>/k/ is shit tier.

No, it isn't

>>2702866
>muh Katana, muh Longsword, muh self defense
Yes, it is.

>>2698607
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKiRFdc9LVw&list=PLCZDnv8M5SROGTsx4t3-iFdZt-vwEzxkl

>>2703535
Why do a lot of people on here seem to hate the longsword?

>>2704817
Longsword is the Chad weapon of hema.

>>2704817
here on HEMA General? No most like the long sword, save for some butthurt Raperists.
On /k/? /k/ is for retards and knows jackshit about swords anyways.

>>2686886
>not unscrewing your pommel and throwing it for a quick win

>>2704817
I don't think a lot of people hate it, just a few people. It's a fairly slow thread, so two or three posts look like more, proportionally.

>>2705011
Go fuck a cactus.
T. rapierest

Is there a good mobile friendly download of Fiore? How about a physical version. Both in English.

>>2706026
>T. rapierest
Go finger a dagger m8 :^)

>>2707131
I'll go finger yer mum, m80.

Really, though, I do like longsword. I just don't think it's the be all end all of HEMA.

>>2705312
>using the weakest and normiest HEMA meme
please leave

I bought a castille arming sword. A couple guys at my club have arming swords but I'm the only one with a buckler so when we fence with them we fence single sword. How do I get gud?

As far as I know there is no historical source on arming sword fencing (except I33), What would be the best substitute? Messer? Backsword? Bolognese?

>>2707500
For any single handed weapon, you can take an arming sword as a substitute. You'll just be in hard mode -- no nagel or rings or baskethilt common in single-handed weapons.

Just take whichever single-handed source you'd like to learn. Whether that's dussack/messer, I.33, Italian sword and buckler, or military sabre and practice that with just the sword.

You can do sword and buckler without the sword, even. It's good practice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LpJp2fNfvI

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I just ordered a Regenyei Feder. Did I make a good choice?

>>2707654
Same, I only used Berbekucz and I can't wait to try Regenyei.
From what I've heard they're top notch!

>>2707654
A standard one or did you customize it?

>>2707654
>From what I've heard they're top notch!
Comments from club members got me to make the leap. Can't wait to see if the praise is deserved.
>>2707665
A standard configuration for a standard guy.

>>2707500
>As far as I know there is no historical source on arming sword fencing (except I33)
You could argue that Fiore's spada sola is one of the few arming sword piece there is out there, though it looks like a longsword held with one hand.

Also, just like >>2707607 said, you can use it for dussack, messer perhaps with some slight adaptation when the nagel is used, everything Bolognese especially the early ones (Marozzo, Manciolino, Viggiani is obvious for starters), early military sabre (those with little hand protection save the knuckle guard for instance). In the end, it's just a sword which shouldn't be that far away from others.

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>>2707684
>A standard configuration for a standard guy.
I've customized it, but it's essentially a standard Feder with a custom grip and pommel comparable to pic related

>>2707765
That grip looks uncomfortably narrow, near the pommel. Did it take some getting used to? Maybe it's better with gloves on.

>>2708443
>Did it take some getting used to?
I have no clue, will take 3 months to arrive, then I can report back.

>>2708467
Is that the current wait time for him, or did you order a while ago?

>>2707765
narrow grip is mighty comfortable, more so with gloves on.

>>2708855
Nope, current wait time. Ordered yesterday

>>2708443
The hand that goes under should actually be almost on the pommel, for better leverage, so I don't think that should be a problem

>>2709450
>almost on the pommel
How would that help? Unless you're holding the pommel itself, which you shouldn't, it's still real narrow.

>>2708940
Huh. I'm skeptical, but suppose I'll try to give one a shot.

>>2709628
well you hold the pommel or not, depending on what you are doing. the handle is flat and the top gives an excellent grip that doesn't wind in your hand, because it is flat profile. With the left you hand do the pivot thing or add oomph to strikes.
The whole concept with the flat profile coffin handle slim grips is historic and works well, likely an eqarly version of the anatomic grip
And I got glove size 11 1/2, hands don't get much bigger than that.

>>2709802
>With the left you hand do the pivot thing or add oomph to strikes.
What?

>>2708940
>narrow grip is mighty comfortable
Good to know I didn't fuck up by ordering it, thanks! (I just really like how that grip looks)

Is poplar good enough to make wasters? I guess it isn't,but I hope I'm wrong.

>>2705312
Dankest of memes

>>2710853
Yes, but it won't hold that long. poplar is a light and soft wood.

>>2705312
I hope you fall on a sword

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>>2711089
I once fell on a sword. I was doing sword and buckler in a park, and my opponent lost his sword and went for grappling. He threw me on the ground right on his sword, which crossguard was pointing up. It hurt so much.

>>2710853
Out of curiosity, do you just not have the money to spend on a synthetic, or are you purposefully making the wasters for something?

>>2711733
I'm interested in singlestick, and many diy shops around here sell staves of 180 cm of lenght and 28 mm of diameter. So I was wondering if I could spare some money and make two singlesticks out of a staff. But it seems poplar isn't worth it, so I guess i'll just buy a proper singlestick or a synthetic saber.

>>2712011
Use rattan for single sticks. you can cut handguards from plastic sheet material

Anyone else more interested in 18th/19th century systems and manuals? I like the Middle Ages and Renaissance as much as the next person, but I find saber/broadsword and bayonet fencing way more appealing. The Napoleonic and Victorian Eras are just so aesthetic.

Lately I've been studying Hutton's systems and they're pretty simple, but fun to train and spar with.

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>>2712279
Christmann gets my juices flowing

>>2712279
Interested, sure, but not more interested. One of the major reasons is that the later-period systems I've seen are a lot less complex than the medieval and even the renaissance systems that we have. Some of the military saber/broadsword systems are specifically designed to be taught to stupid recruits in a matter of weeks. I enjoy fighting saber, but it fails to keep my attention for too long.

>>2712279
Yeah, definitely interested. I mean, even the USA used singlesticks and sabers and spadroons and smallswords, so American HEMA isn't don't real.

>>2712767
There is an argument to be made that simple is better. Speaking of living lineages there are often levels of complexity within kiss simple systems which are not apparent to the neophyte but give advance students a lifetime of study

>>2712980
Kendo has like 10 katas that are correct ways to hit primary targets, but in practice it is more like head, glove, bind and a lot of drilling.

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>>2713078
There is a lot of good material in the kendo kata, but because of the rules and the emphasis of modern kendo on sport and character building rather than practical sword work it stands neglected and not well understood or integrated into the shiai aspect.

But yes if you look at Japanese styles many of the most successful styles in street fights and duels were pretty damn simple. Look at Jigen ryu which doesnt really spar and barely does two man drills. their main training was to strike a tree or bundle of sticks, sometimes thousands of reps pure day. Look at Tennen Rishin ryu which has rather simple kata done with super heavy bokken supplemented with shinai gekiken.

Not saying complicated stuff cant work, there are very complex systems that can be effective, when trained with suitable hard training and time commitment.

But even technically sophisticated styles like itto ryu stuck to a simple principle: cut down the center, displacing the other guys strike and cutting in one blow, and all the fancy stuff was basically elaborations and more advanced applications of a very simple principle that students learn on the first day.

>>2713260
The logic for scoring is solid: hit with intent (call it out) on a primary target (wrist over arm, belly slash over tip) or it doesn't count. With defensive gear and rulesets those inaccuracies happen.

I know the exams for kendo are more stringent on form, and thus look more like proper practice.

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>>2713349

How the logic of scoring evolved is sound: safe targets that promote clean sword technique. The way the mechanics evolved is sound: The most effective way to use a shinai (not a real sword) on flat floors with limited targets, but it doesn't take a lot of research to find out how far kendo scoring is divorced both form kenjutsu, or even from Edo and Meiji period gekiken.

For one thing there are a few kenjutsu schools that hold the bogu is only to protect against serious injuries, and thus allow striking anywhere on the body, as well as grappling.

Calling the strike is certainly a recent development, which I suppose makes it easy to judge, but is martially nonsensical. If you call out kote and hit the guy's elbow with a real sword the guy is still going to be lucky not to lose a hand. And of course many of the historically most deadly cuts, such as kesagiri are not even scored.

All that said I have a good deal of respect for modern kendo, it still preserves some interesting material and technique and the best kendoka could probably beat a lot of modern kenjustu guys who just go through he motions. There are even a few guys in there who really care about and know real sword work and use kendo as a vehicle for them to explore it. But the criteria for scoring make no sense if you pretend the shinai has a sharp edge.

>>2713078
>>2713260
About the Kendo no Kata and proto-Kendo, it could be pointed out that it emerged from systems (Hokushin Itto-ryu, Jikishinkage-ryu, Shindo Munen-ryu, Ono-ha Itto-ryu) that were trying to somehow make their fencing systems simpler, more focused or entirely focused on the sword rather than polearms and who had new types of training and training materials. Kendo's short kata set (7+3) is only a reflection of an older trend present in kenjutsu schools (starting in the late 18th century).

Nonetheless, systems with a short number of kata and focus on alternate training methods aren't knew as it's most certainly what was going on in the 8 capital schools (see Kurama-ryu) and it also finds its way in Jigen-ryu for instance (20 or so kata, focus on tategi-uchi).

>>2693126
>you can't have plumes
Why, though? Are they forbidden on tournaments?

>>2713486
Hokushin itto ryu still contains multiple weapons, and I believe ono-ha itto ryu once had a curriculum beyond sword. In either case both of them have dozens of sword kata.

Its widely believed that most sengoku ryuha started out with only a few kata. more were added by successive generations to flesh out the curriculum or deal with new situations like unarmored dueling or shinai shiai which were not addressed in the original material.

>>2714070
Hokushin Itto-ryu got the polearms and naginata kata from a side art. When the founder made the style, it was mostly as a variation of Nakanishi Itto-ryu, he then added the naginata kata he knew from the other school he had studied but they weren't exactly coming from him (he didn't changed them). The Hokushin Itto-ryu methodology made apparently for quick progress and it had a reputation for quicker training, a couple of years instead of 5, but this is mostly for the sword kata.

Ono-ha Itto-ryu is definitely the most traditionnal school of the bunch with something like a hundred of kata.
But it's more than probable than curriculum was expanded as generations went on, it's a living thing after all...

>>2714238
Well taking material from older styles wasn't exactly uncommon. Ive seen many demonstrations of hokushin itto ryu and in certainly doesnt look that easy to pick up. its linear but it appears to call for some very precise timeing and control and at least today they require students to be able to perform the techniques both with shinai and engage in some pretty high stress engagments with shinken.

My impression is that most students in the edo period studied it mostly for the shinai shiai and perhaps didn't go into the wider curriculum. It wasn't uncommon for a Menkyo in those days to be rewarded after someone mastered an essential principle, rather than learning all the kata

>>2713515
Probably not from most, but I imagine they'd get broken off real quick.

Question for you JSA guys: is there a good way to get a general overview of one/some of your sword system(s) without training somewhere for years and years? I'm curious what it's like, and how it compares to the longsword stuff, but I'm really just looking for the broad strokes - these are the elemental cuts, guards, footwork, body mechanics, maybe some tactical philosophy.

My impression is that most teachers aren't interested in sharing that info so casually, but I hope I'm wrong.

>>2712279
>Hutton
Absolutely plebeian.

>t. Burton.

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>>2713486
>>2713370
>>2713260
I'm doing some cross training with a local kendo club at the moment.
Are there any of these earlier sources/kata available in English?
>also
I told them I do HEMA/WMA, and somehow I'm now taking a short class on KATATE GUNTŌ-JUTSU.
>tfw get to wear cool bogu while wearing my classic cut style HEMA jacket and trousers
>feelsgoodman

>>2715604
>Question for you JSA guys: is there a good way to get a general overview of one/some of your sword system(s) without training somewhere for years and years? I'm curious what it's like, and how it compares to the longsword stuff, but I'm really just looking for the broad strokes - these are the elemental cuts, guards, footwork, body mechanics, maybe some tactical philosophy.
No.
>My impression is that most teachers aren't interested in sharing that info so casually, but I hope I'm wrong.
Correct.
See here for some dude getting a new asshole ripped in to him for asking a similar question: https://www.reddit.com/r/kendo/comments/6ajpet/australia_three_questions_regarding_books_cart/

>tl;dr
The kendo community is not very welcoming.

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>>2715604
>>2715661

There are a few, mostly modern styles that have published in depth guides, and there are a few prewar army manuals floating around. Some older styles have released stuff to but they often withhold essential information or even put mistakes into the work so other people cant use it.

If you are just looking for a comparison however there are many high quality videos on youtube detailing the basic forms of any number of classical schools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHa9KUSCn3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHa9KUSCn3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRfQjj8ltEg

Even a few where they explain things

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=garVYcyvRRg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdGQrZGJocQ
>My impression is that most teachers aren't interested in sharing that info so casually, but I hope I'm wrong.

Generally yes, The last thing koryu guys want is for their methods to become common knowledge. Essential information must be passed down person to person though oral teachings and careful observation. In older times letting such information float around could result in others formulating methods to beat you. Today it would result in people copying your school, watering down, and abusing your intellectual property. Even those schools that are very open like in those videos hold something back

That is the attitude anyway. "Jibun no ryuha wo mamoru"

The best thing for those interested in Japanese sword work is to put the time into a living style--this stuff needs to be preserved for future generations. Its to valuable to let die, leaving only some scrolls and modern videos behind.

>>2715670
Geese, I get where those kendo guys are coming from and I understand your bluntness but that is rather harsh, Hema guys are used to learning from manuals so that is the first thing they usually ask about.

The fact is before koryu were koryu everyone was trying to figure out what the dojo down the street was doing and how to use it or defeat it. Thats one of the reason koryu are so defensive about that today.

But at the same time they would often invite swordsmen from other schools as guest instructors so their students could learn from or spar with them.

and lets be honest, you can learn a lot from books and experimentation. The hema people have proved that. It wont necessarily be what the author was going for, and thus it has no real value for preserving living systems, but it has been done.

>>2715714
I should add that ther are some koryu that hold public seminars these days, even in the states and Europe. You certainly won't get anything more than a "taste" of the style, maybe learn a few of their basics but it could give you some insight into them and whether you think they would be worth a further investment of your time.

>>2713370
A lot of the peculiarities of kendo compared to older swordwork can be explained simply by two factors. First is, as you said, the fact that when shinai matches became the main point of training and the rules and other conditions became more and more clearly defined, training too became optimized for this.

Secondly, when the purpose of kendo shifted from learning swordsmanship to doing kendo, what were formerly merely training methods (means to an end) became the main point (the end) themselves. Things like okuriashi, fumikomi, kiai naming the targets, the emphasis on men strikes, running through after striking, criteria for points and so on (even using shinai and doing jigeiko in the first place) used to be for training specific things and the outward form could be later abandoned if the teaching was internalized, but are now considered essential for the actual performance too

Well, even now at a high enough level, like hachidan, sensei seem to become more relaxed about the form in their own technique as long as the content is good. Of course to many kendoka who are used to the strict emphasis on correct form this may seem like slacking off. Then there are the highly competitive types who also bend the form for point-scoring purposes, but this usually takes the technique farther from swordsmanship, not closer.

>>2713370
>>2715794
To continue, here's a series of nice articles about the development of the technical form of modern kendo from a historical perspective.

https://budo-world.taiiku.tsukuba.ac.jp/en/category/academicknowledge/understandingbudohisitory/

(Notice that the first one, Origins of Kendo Technique, has several pages)

>>2715604
Frankly, your best bet would probably be to find someone who is studying JSA and has a desire to share and to do it informally...

As you said, teachers typically won't be interested in someone who gets there for even less than a year, it's a waste of time and energy and a waste for the people who'll serve as partners (no offence but then...).

If you're interested in the JSA, there are a lot of good resources about them but they usually won't be about techniques, or rather, they won't help teaching you the techniques, but I guess you know that already. Check out Old School by Amdur as it's a new classic for instance.

>http://www.hontaiyoshinryu.be/images/Documents/p_schools.pdf
Here's the Guy Buyens koryu schools introduction as a link for those interested.

>>2715661
>http://shotokai.marseille.free.fr/telechargement/%5Bkenjutsu%5D%20Le%20Sabre%20et%20le%20Divin%20-%20Risuke%20Otake%20-%20Katori%20Shinto%20ryu%20(koryu%20budo%20bujutsu%20samurai%20iaido%20kendo%20aikido).pdf
It's still something... here's the french old edition of Deity and the Sword regarding Katori Shinto-ryu, only the kenjutsu (omoto, gogyo) and iaijutsu (omote, tachi) though.
Note that you can get a feel with this and with videos, but you won't be able to learn much from it, I know first-hand that there is a lot of important omissions in the descriptions (of everything).

>>2715714
>>2715661
Since there is a kendo/JSA hijack in motion, here's a nice motivational video of two old men (93 and 102) doing kendo.
Keep practicing whatever martial art you're doing and most importantly, practice it with the intent of doing it for your whole lifetime and not just for your twenties to your fourties.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbLpfxbHyJE

>>2707654
>Did I make a good choice?
Regenyei a best, for longsword.

>>2712279
Military sabre is probably the GOAT entry level HEMA weapon, precisely because it's so simple (and Napoleonic hussars are the peak of male aesthetics).

You do end up realizing that virtually every other single-hander system has more depth, complexity and martial effectiveness eventually, though. Military sabre is kinda halfway to classical fencing. But that's great in itself, because it makes the sabre practice a jumping-off point that the fencer can go from to choose his own styles and interests.

>>2715794
I think most would agree with what your saying. Its just that some might think that training "the way of the sword" and not keeping in mind the needs of actual swordsmanship is nonsensical

It was only a few generations ago that wartime kendo was being taught to NCO's with the assumption they might have to used their gunto in combat.

>>2716215
are there any more in-depth sources on 19th century sabre than military manuals?

>>2716215
Where would you recommend starting with military sabre?

>>2716489
Not that I know of, they were a military weapon.

>>2716667
It depends on what country's military you want to emulate. For English the standard works are Waite and Hutton, I think; for French it's Saint Martin and (ironically since he wrote in German) Christmann, who fought for Napoleon. I don't know any names but I do know there's a couple Swedish treatises as well, and there must be some Prussian and other German sources considering how much the student korps loved mensurfechten.

Does anyone train with Godinho's treatise besides montante?

>>2716697
>Christmann, who fought for Napoleon
Interesting, I didn't knew that.

>>2716919
Not that I'm aware of, but there's probably someone out there. I didn't even know he did stuff other than montante.

>>2716667
>>2716697
>For English the standard works are Waite and Hutton, I think; for French it's Saint Martin and (ironically since he wrote in German) Christmann
Tinguely and Muller are also looked into as far as French goes.
For the English, Waite and Hutton are quite late, Roworth and Angelo would be the one people seem to typically go to for the Napoleonic wars.

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This may be a stupid question but could having a scabbard during longsword sparring be a good thing? I think Fiore shows the scabbard being used offensively. What if fighters had to both start from the sheath could it be fun in a tournament setting?

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Anyone here into Polish Sabre?

>>2716667
>>2716697
>>2718628
For you manual freaks, this publisher has tons of facsimile prints of historic manuals. Site is in German, but all books are in original language and print.
http://shop.fines-mundi.de/de/Fechtliteratur

>that desperate fag that tries to interest the hicks of /k/ for HEMA

since we are talking about military sabre:
http://www.middleages.hu/english/martialarts/treatise_database.php?values_set=1&sort_order=year&direction=&secondary_sort_order=author&secondary_direction=&limit=1&search_string=&pagesize=50&sort=year&sortmethod=ASC&filter_weapon_38=OFF&filter_weapon_28=ON

>>2718707
I've thought about that. If someone wants to get a sense of fencing in a non-duel situation, you should know how to move with a scabbard attached to you.

I mean, the scabbard doesn't just disappear when you draw your sword.

>>2719444
It would also explain a lot about vom tag. I mean try to pull out a big ass longsword from its sheath and see in which position you end up naturally.

There isn't any sort of hema or fencing clubs near me. Feels bad

>>2718628
>For the English, Waite and Hutton are quite late, Roworth and Angelo would be the one people seem to typically go to for the Napoleonic wars.
Sure, but that doesn't make them standard. Most bongs doing English military sabre don't do Napoleonic specifically; for example from what I remember from his videos Matt Easton is much more into the Indian Mutiny and other colonial wars.

Waite and Hutton are standard in that they're the most commonly used texts in current HEMA for doing English military sabre, that's all.

>>2718855
>http://shop.fines-mundi.de/de/Fechtliteratur
Holy fuck.

>>2719882
>pull out a big ass longsword from its sheath and see in which position you end up naturally
That'd be ochs. How is vom tag implicated?

>>2723226
Same thought here. I put a messer in my belt loop, pulled it out, and the first guard I enter is ochs.

>>2723226
I don't know, I end up in von tag, it may be because I draw it almost vertically and then grab the pommel once it's above my head and slightly on my right. How do you end up in Ochs though?

>>2723226
same for later weapons. i think bruchius describes the start of a rapier fight from the scabard would start in prima, so an equivalent to Ochs.

>>2719882
I think vom Tag is often depicted because it is one of the fastest guards to start Oberhau with, and because of that even an unskilled fencer would asume this position sooner or later in all likelyhood. But that's just my theory

>>2723963
>>2723226
iirc Agrippa named "prima" as such because he said that it's the stance you get into naturally when you draw your sword from the scabbard.
Many systems have their first guard (if there is one defined as such) be either the sword as if it was in the scabbard (I:33, Viggiani) or in the first likely position they want you to get in to (and typically it will be either some ochs or some vom tag), if not the first, it will then be the second (see again I:33 and Viggiani).

>>2723965
I think Keith Farrell wrote something about "vom tag" and "breve/extended pflug/chudan" being the most seen stances people adopt (and sometimes the reflexive and only one they take) as they progress and as they gain in confidence or insights in strategy; they start in breve because they think they're better protected that way, then switch to vom tag because they learned and want to always attack first, then go back to breve because they learned and want to bait their opponent, then go back to vom tag because they know how to bait them from there but also attack more easily, etc.

And then, both Fiore and Ringeck (iirc) described the "unskilled people's strike" as an overpowered downward cut from the right starting from a pseudo vom tag/donna, so it's a good assumption.

>>2723963
>start in prima
Thats why it is called Prima or the first guard. Seconde comes right after.

>>2724253
Yes. The interesting question is why it is first guard. As >>2724021 points out it is a natural movement and it may also be the first guard because pointing your sword at your opponent's face after drawing your sword might keep him away from you

>>2724565
>Yes. The interesting question is why it is first guard.
Because thats where you start when you draw your sword.

>>2724565
That's exactly how Viggiani does it anyway. His prima is just the sword in the scabbard, feet joined, then from here you cut his somehow peculiar rising roverso that ends in his seconda (basically prima/alicorno/ochs), threatening the eyes of the opponent.
Since the sword in the scabbard is a weak position, you cut immeditaly from there to prevent the opponent from closing and then, end not in a wide guard (vom Tag, Guardia Alta), but in a guard that will threaten the most, noble and most precious parts of the enemy, his eyes, thus a high guard point online, hand retracted so that even if he is very close, you'll still be able to pierce him.
If you consider that the sword in the scabbard isn't a guard of its own, Alicorno/Ochs as a prima makes perfect sense.

>>2724600
nice to see we agree here

>>2706026
Fucking rapists

>>2706446
http://www.the-exiles.org.uk/fioreproject/Fiore%20Getty%20MS%20Representation%20(Translation).pdf
The Getty up to and including Stretto
No armoured stuff in there though

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>>2707716
The Florius manuscript shows arming swords for una mano.

>>2719444
>>2718707
Fiore shows the sheathed sword being carried, not worn though.

Any fellow Fioreists in here by the way?

>>2725596
Me but I suck.

>>2725602
Keep going man, you can only get better.

Also keep practising your master battle at home, aka the fency largo stuff rather than plays.

Cutting from posta to posta is good practice, and sparring of course while thinking of which lines you're covering or not, trying to anticipate the opponent etc.

Also read translations, you gleam a lot of info you'd otherwise miss.

>>2725602

>>2725612 I should add onto this, that's just for due mano.
Abrazare and daga are vitally important to everything else, get a shit tonne of that in before anything else to get the fundamentals.

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>>2725586
so does Gunterrodt

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>>2725596
Fiore knows best. Where do you study?

>>2725616
>>2725612
Quite honestly, I find Fiore's dagger easy to learn and great at teaching the basics. My issues are mostly once I get to the bind in the largo with a longsword, what the fuck am I supposed to do expect get brutally stabbed in the chest? I know there is a ton of techniques to do from there it's just that my mind always BSOD there.

>>2725697
Sheffield
Can probably guess the group from that
>>2725764
That's why doing some posta to posta cutting practice is good training, as is controlled sparring so you can work out the mechanics of the incrossada. Also a lot of the time people forget about master battle while trying to get plays in. Forget about plays, plays are to be used when the opportunity arises, if you can hit the guy, do it.

Sparred a couple of Ringeck practitioners recently and they kept walking onto a bicorno thrust from coda longa.

>>2723959
>How do you end up in Ochs though?
The same way you end up in vom tag, I just stop earlier. Once it's out of the scabbard, you have the hilt high, and the tip pointed down. To get to vom tag, you have to rotate it 180 degrees; if you stop at 90, you're in ochs. You don't even have to rotate your wrist.

>>2713260
Yep, took Kendo for 3 years. There isn't a repertoire of techniques but training on the ones available definitely honed my skills in doing them.

I can't tell you how many times we would do striking and footwork excercises but I still have the occasional dream in my sleep about doing them lol. It works though, after a time my muscles were conditioned and my reflexes were quicker when sparring. It becomes instinctual.

I know this isn't contributing to the conversation much, i'm not that knowledgeable in other styles within the Kendo-verse so to speak but it's amazing how the body changes and adapts in such a way as many of you fellow practitioners know.

Would love to get back into it but unfortunately there aren't many schools out here in the Georgia boonies. It's all about Shotgun-jutsu in the south lol

How often are false edge Oberhau and Unterhau actually used?
We're doing them atm in my club, but I'm not sure if they're really useful enough to also train them at home...

>>2728464
Using the false edge from wechel to beat the opponents blade away is both fun and effective, all while leading into natual zwerchaus

>>2728464
False edge oberhau is pretty much a shielhau. False edge unterhau is more useful to me, honestly. Great for sniping hands of newbies to teach them to protect their hands. Great for beating a blade aside. Great for cutting to longpoint, and following with a thrust.

>>2728628
>False edge oberhau is pretty much a shielhau
Oh damn, you're right, completely forgot.

>>2728628
>>2728464
>beat the opponents blade away
I've found that pretty useful too.

Thanks for the answers guys!

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>>2715821
>>2715804
>>2715714
Yes. YES! This pleases my Source-Hoarding compulsion.
>you know you've been in HEMA too long when getting sources gives you boners.

Also I'm going to learn French, brb.

>>2715837
Why do fencing masters from all traditions live to 80+?

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>>2716215
>GOAT entry level HEMA weapon
More like PLEB.
Get yourself a real man's weapon Hussy.

>>2718838
>Polish Sabre?
It doesn't exist.

>>2718894
>Heinrich von Gunterrodt
What am I looking at? I.33 then rapier right in the next chapter? Is this just a later Mair?

>>2723963
>bruchius
Based Dutchman
>even if he is just Fabris...
>fucking every Germanic rapier system past Meyer is just Fabris.

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>>2725596
>Any fellow Fioreists in here by the way?
Here Knigga.
Snapping Fechtkunt's elbows since 2012.

>>2728819
Happy to provide, don't know how hard the french translation is to a non-native speaker, there isn't that much techniques-wise though, and iirc, it's pretty straightforward, but then, I had it naturally easy. The only thing that is somehow thouroughly explained is the first sword kata (logically).
Since we're at it, here's a thesis about the evolution of the japanese traditional martial arts from the early feudal era to our days with a link between kendo, budo and the nationalistic tendencies of the early 20th century.

https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10092/6869/Thesis_fulltext.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

>>2728822
You got to keep up with the old wise martial art master stereotype...

>... here's a thesis...
>"The Cultural Politics of Proprietorship: The Socio-historical Evolution of Japanese Swordsmanship
and its Correlation with Cultural Nationalism"

Catchy.

>that desperate soul that keeps making sword threads on /k/
>/k/ of all boards, stupid people, BudK, Coldsteel machetes and muh self defense

Likely you'd have more success and get better people on /mlp/

>>2729030
I did that once or twice too months ago, it's a useless endeavor...

>>2729030
>>2729044
Came here from /k/. My less intelligent compatriots are a bunch of meme-spewing retards in regards to swords.

>>2729012
Well it's a thesis, it's bound to have a stupid long pompous name, but the actual text is much more grounded and clear about what it's about imho. After having read it, I still can't really get why the whacky name.

Besides, when you're studying texst which have names like this:
>Académie de l'épée, ou se démontrent par reigles mathématique, sur le fondement d'un cercle mysterieux, la theorie et pratique des vrais et jusqu'a present incognus secrets du maniement des armes, a pied et a cheval.
Thesis's titles shouldn't be too out of place.

>>2729030
>>2729055
OK, I take it back, you actually did save one poor soul.

>>2728841
>>fucking every Germanic rapier system past Meyer is just Fabris.
and it even survived a into smallsword. I am looking et you, Stossfechten after Kreussler

>>2728464
Don't train false edge cuts because they're frequently used, train them for when you have to use them or want to confuse the fuck out of your opponent.

>>2728464
quite frequently in Meyer and all 16th century German school. In fact, they are essential.

>>2729342
>and it even survived a into smallsword.
ikr?
I'm teaching the local KdF club "late" (for them) rapier because I told them there is a "German style" i.e. Fabris.
Going to try to convert a few to smallsword as well by telling them there's a special "German Guard" (Seconde).

>>2730136
>confuse the fuck out of your opponent
Who would be confused by short edge cuts? Florists, maybe, but there aren't very many of them.

>>2732769
You fucking retarded piece of fucking shit, I hope you get hit by a car

>>2732170
>short edge cuts
>Based arm breaking, nut kicking, condottieri getting confused about 40% of their art
Yeah, nah.

>>2733237
I do not see many combo strikes in Fiore like in the later German schools. So ther is that.

Is there any source material on cutting with sharps? like what a good strike should look like?

Hey yeah so like the sca right guys

>>2697220
Well, we do have the bogen in messer and you're technically doing a bogen to do a schnappen in longsword. However, it's not really something to hold before the fight starts.

>>2734716
>what a good strike should look like
What do you mean "look like"? You should start with the thing you want to cut in one piece, and end with it in two pieces (or more).

I'm not aware of any sources that talk in depth about what proper cutting form is. The Liechtenauer glosses talk about it obliquely, referring to ways of cutting that are bad, but I think proper form was a basic enough principle that it didn't make it into the zettel as its own thing.

I suspect the distinction between sharps and trainers was not as stark as it is today, at least in the longsword's heyday. If you're actually fighting with the weapon - proper ernstfechten - then having poor edge alignment (or any other structure issues) in training is hugely significant, and would get corrected promptly. Today, that sort of thing is still identified as a problem that needs to be fixed, but it's easy to put off correcting it to focus on others parts of training. Once you get to Meyer, when it's very sport-focused, I'm sure it was a real issue, but for the earlier work I can't imagine it was much of a problem.

>>2734716
You might as well look at the japanese tameshigiri for that... iirc, cutting in HEMA was partially if not largely copied from the japanese modern methodology thanks to Toyama-ryu crossers (it sure seems the case in the US anyway).

>>2735096
>>2735541
Isn't it odd that we have no manual or advice on this from European sources?

>>2735844
Later periods used mounds of clay for cutting, particularly with the cavalry sabre.

>>2735878
That I know, but did any master leave advice on how a good cut should look like, what is proper form, what are common mistakes etc. ?

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>>2735897
We got detailed instructions on fight geometry, footwork, anatomy and what not. but none of the guys said something about what a good cut looks like?
seriously?

>>2735844
>>2735878
And there's Waite's sabre manual taking about cutting led, apples, streamers, etc.

>>2736138
>rapier
>cutting

A good cut severs the offending limb.
Maybe it makes a high pitched woosh noise so you know you edge is aligned.
You "Draw" or "Push" on contact.

They did give advice, but mostly footnote level stuff because if you were reading about swords
A) You can read
B) You're into swords
Not really much explaining necessary.

Do good fighting technique against tatami and it's the same.

>>2736187
>>2735897
>Maybe it makes a high pitched woosh noise so you know you edge is aligned.
Hey exactly this is talked about by Viggiani, that's definitely something acknowledged in the sources (well one source), not much but well.

Also,
>how a good cut should look like
A good cut leaves the other person dead or critically injured, that's pretty much it. Were cutting practices of the old times like those we have now with judging, described elements of good forms (the mat doesn't fall immediately or at all, no bits are flying, line of the cut is clean, etc.)? Was it rather not to get the feel of an actual cut: they were expected to have a good chance of actually have to put it to the test against a living person, unlike us where cutting tatami mats are pretty much the definitive test there is regarding slashing stuff (luckily).

It's quite certain that cutting stuff as training then was not regarded the same as now (duh?). When it started a bit more seriously in Japan, most masters who fought blade against blade in the late 19th century wars said that it was a good experience but nothing really to dwelve into as there is not much to find in it. It only gained bigger popularity after WW2, when blade usage in the army had finally been put away.
It wouldn't surprise me that people like Fiore, Talhoffer and the likes, who had to fight as a matter of reputation would regard cutting as a big thing to get into, as a definite end to anything, unlike technical training and athletic ones. It's just suggestions rather than hard fast ideas though...

>>2736293
>Hey exactly this is talked about by Viggiani, that's definitely something acknowledged in the sources (well one source), not much but well.
Thats exactly what I am looking for, there must be at least some manuals that mention proper form for a cut.

Also, cutting things was a thing in Victorian England, cutting lead or sheep was a feat of arms.

>>2736511
>>2736511
From Viggiani,
>ROD: Do these two successive mandritti tondi of yours a bit, Conte.
>CON: Here they are.
>ROD: From the whistle of the sword I hear that they went flat; if they are not good the ear is quick in discerning by the speed of the stroke; don’t you hear the big percussion, and the big reverberation you make in the air, taking a great abundance of it with the flat of the sword? You hear a little less loud, but sharper, whistle, when you do it with the true edge.

>Also, cutting things was a thing in Victorian England, cutting lead or sheep was a feat of arms.
There are obviously differences between feat cutting and cutting practices meant for swordsmanship training though. Feat cutting doesn't mean to be necessary "proper" and in accordance to swordfighting, it just needs to be impressive. In fact, it's borderline tricking. One japanese master in the Meiji-era cut a steel helmet in front of the emperor, but when you see how it was done, it's impressive but still a trick... You perform a feat for people, not for yourself, so the advices given for one would be totally different than the counsels you give for the other.

>>2736293
Problably the biggest right before the end of the war. After the war it took on militarist vibes that alot of people were uncomfortable with.

While ive read that their are a few edo period schools that practiced it, for the most part test cutting was about testing the blade and not the swordsman.

http://kenshi247.net/blog/2011/01/28/thoughts-on-tameshigiri-from-famous-swordsmen/

>>2736612
>for the most part test cutting was about testing the blade and not the swordsman.
Why did they then chose masters for testing swords?

>>2736618
So that the results would be relevant and comparable? It won't tell you much about the blade if your tester is shit no matter what he's holding.

>>2736618
For the most part they chose professional test cutters, The idea was a blade that could cut though a lot of material (or in the old days dead bodies) without taking any damage was going to be worth more money, so obviously you would want a guy who was skilled at cutting.

Its probably towards the end of edo and beginning of Meiji that test cutting became a way of evaluating your own skill and there were many different methods as that article lists

>>2729055
>>2729044
I've also tried this

When half the board doesn't even know shit about firearms there's no wonder they have no fucking clue about melee weapons and self-defence other than Hollywood meme history.

>>2732779
Way to fly off the handle for nothing bruh

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/criminal-code-canada-duel-laws
We're back in business lads!

This the chance we've been waiting for guys, we can beat the wrastlefags by joining forces with /heem/

>>2737312

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>>2736598
>Feat cutting doesn't mean to be necessary "proper" and in accordance to swordfighting...
And herein lay the rub...

Do you think cutting a static bundle of bamboo mat is any better?

Or clay and straw?

Or thrusting at dummies hard enough to impale them?

You stand a set distance away, the target doesn't move or fight back, you can take as long as needed assuming it's not timed, you're judged on aesthetics as much as the pragmatic result.

Regardless of what tradition you do, weapon and cutting medium you choose, the whole idea is abstracted to focus on one very narrow aspect:
>Can you use your weapon with enough strength and control to cut off/thrust through this rough human analogue.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. Western Masters were/are less anal about "correctness" so long as you achieved the means-to-the-end.

Feat Cutting is just a minutia of that; an even more technically specialised version.

I've had the privileged to use a Wilkinson No. 2 Lead Cutter against the correctly formed piece of lead.
If you mess up you angle, chop rather than cut, don't have a supple yet firm wrist, nor deliver it with too little or too much power, you will not cut a damn thing.

>>2737302
Interesting Fact: It's never been not illegal to duel in Australia.

>>2737379
Why is the MMA general called /heem/?

>>2737103
Hey man, that guy bumped the thread without posting a substantive comment; he got what was coming to him.

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>>2737602
With mats it depends how you do it, a lot of people cut with huge swings, bracing themselves against the ground. Others cut with the same cuts they use in normal practice.

>http://www.kishinkai.co.uk/2017/06/04/interview-kuroda-tetsuzan-inheriting-tradition/

"One happened at Toyama’s military academia, during the war. He had been asked to come and teach soldiers how to cut. At the time, training consisted to cut bamboos stuck into the ground.

My grandfather told them: “You are militaries and will not face opponents simply waiting seated or standing. Train yourselves to cut while running!”.

The instructor answered it was much easier said than done, and asked for a demonstration. My grandfather then took a military sword and cut all the bamboos while running.

What is important is not that he cut all the bamboos, but the way he did it. He did not stop to ground himself and to cut diagonally. He cut them all horizontally while running, and just with a little movement of the wrist!

The instructor then told him: “You can cut like this, but it is impossible for soldiers to do so.” My grandfather then left. (Laughs)"

I'm not a big fan of test cutting, but depending on how you do it it could be valuable.

One of the reasons test cutting became so popular in Japan was probably because many men who were considerably skilled in prewar kendo, found they have trouble cutting with a real sword. thus test cutting rose in popularity among the military and others, you will read many teachers cautioning that test cutting was only one part of a greater whole.

>>2737944
you should be gassed

>>2737602
Since you're (you)-ing me, I'll respond saying that you probably overthought what I meant: just because I think feat-cutting is in good part related to tricks doesn't mean I place immense values in test-cutting / cutting training.

I think that test-cutting is useful to get a feel (>>2736293). You're saying that I "miss the forest for the trees" but I was writing what you're saying about the masters and the relative efficiency of cuts a couple of posts ago.

Training cuts on material can be useful here and there to gauge yourself or to get a sensation of what cutting actually feel, but I don't think there's much to find in it in the longer term. Competitive cutting is the same, I don't really get the idea behind it, I'd say it's best left as a solitary practice were you compare to yourself, not others.
Striking practices though, with a pel or a diagram (or a partner serving as a target reference) for instance seems to me a much more productive thing (and this seems to have been acknowledged in many styles and many cultures).

>>2738320
Can you please stop bumping on page 4-6 and finally fuck off.

Damn, on Sunday I'll be on a tournament that decides who's getting in the national team in longsword, rapier and saber.
Wish me luck /hema/

>>2738343
I'm trying to keep the thread alive dipshit

>>2738347
There's no need to bump from anything but page 9 or 10, also you're shitting up the thread

>>2738369
That's rich, considering you're the faggot actually bumping old threads in order to kill off the non-wrestling threads

>>2738375
What are you even talking about?
Can't some janitor delete all those useless posts?

>>2737626
So, why don't you guys do it then?

Does anyone use destroyer modz helmets? Anyone have opinions? I hate the giant back of head protectors from pbt/af/etc

>>2738343
>Damn, on Sunday I'll be on a tournament that decides who's getting in the national team in longsword, rapier and saber.

>National team
The only club with that level of blind arrogance is Blood and Iron. Best of luck to you, but strongly consider forming your own club with an egalitarian leadership structure.

>>2738505
Reread that; it's always been illegal.

>>2738849
You mean their BOHP? I haven't used it myself, but I've heard generally positive things.

>>2739076
>club
Nah, that's really nation-wide (since it's a small country) and includes every club who wants to participate.

>>2739076
FYI, national teams do exist in Europe.

>>2738343
good luck austriabro. will not be able to make it this time...

>>2739304
Thanks and damn nice to see that other Austrians are posting here too!

>>2739355
the world is hell of a small place it seems

>>2739365
Well then I'll ask, which state (or at least north/east/south/west) and which weapon(s)?

>>2739365
Also, got any cute pics of you?

>>2739365
I'd rather like to see cute pics of your gear!

>>2739395
During the ÖM, I had the advantage of not having to drive there, and I participated in everything but longsword.
You?

>>2739546
NÖ, 60km from Vienna and couldn't make it to the ÖM this year ;_;
Mainly longsword and some saber for fun.

>>2739573
nice, hope we'll have a sabre bout any time soon

>>2739580
Would be cool, maybe next year (or at the SLMS but there's no saber and I've probably got no time to attend...)

>>2739598
this year, i'll not be there either. personal stuff. well, there will be a few more events this year I guess. if not, next year.

>>2692904
I swear Szymon Chlebowski made those feders.

>>2739794
Yep, he did. But the design is shown in a couple manuals .

How much would cost a decent saber?

>>2740042
about tree fiddy

>>2728819
I'm happy to provide whats out there, but I still think, when it comes to Japanese swordsmanship, learning without a teacher is like going down a creek without a paddle.

It makes since when that is all that is there, but with so many living arts worth preserving why do something else

What is the actual quality of Superior Fencing products?

Weren't executioners the only professional test cutters?

>>2740988
Our club uses their jackets/pants. Pretty good for the price, but they won't talk to you unless you're doing a bulk order (or if you become enough of a repeat customer like my club).

I can't personally speak for the quality of the rest of the stuff they make, but I've been told by my coach that most of the other stuff isn't worth it.

>>2741110
I couldn't find prices anywhere, how much do they want for jackets/pants? I might have some people in my club who might order with me

>>2741110
Thanks. Are the jackets good enough for single handed steel sparring, in your opinion?
>>2741127
You have to ask them. I've heard it's 100$ for the AP look-alike jacket and 40$ for the pants. But they probably make different prices for different clubs, depending on how often and how much stuff they buy from them.

>>2741262
Hows the quality of that? For that price it got to be south Asia made. Do they hold together after the first few washings?

>started fencing rapier/sidesword
>my right forearm is now over half an inch larger in diameter than my right

wew

>>2741862
RIP your sidearm

>>2741659
They're indeed made in Pakistan.
I don't know about the quality, that's why I'm asking here.

>>2741862
confidently look people who ask about your lopsided arms in the eye and tell them about how you masturbate furiously. they obviously want to know or they wouldn't ask.

>>2741862
How about doing a lefty day once in a while? On the plus side it improves your game against lefties a little and you don't look like you have the black belt in wankta weeny fu

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>>2741127
I don't remember the exact prices but >>2741262
sounds about right. Shipping is also pricy, so if you're not doing a bulk order, it may not be as worth it.

>Are the jackets good enough for single handed steel sparring
I've mainly done longsword with it, but I think it'd be fine for single handed stuff.

>>2741659
>Do they hold together after the first few washings?
They've held up pretty well so far.

>>2741961
>They're indeed made in Pakistan.
I think Pakistan is like China. They have skilled craftsmen and have the ability to produce good wares, they just don't most of the time because garbage sells.

>>2742592
Do people usually not practice using both sides when doing single handed stuff? Did they learn nothing from Jaime Lanister?

>>2740054
Get out of here, I'm not giving you tree fiddy!

>>2742592
>>2742726
If the goal is to correct the muscular discrepancy, then practicing with your off hand is inefficient; you'd have to spend the same amount of time with it as with your main hand to get the same strength. Instead, you should just do some targeted lifting to balance things out.

If the goal is to get decent with your off hand, then sure, put some time in with it, but it seems like that'd slow down your progress quite a bit.