Do you agree with Bubba ray?

>>2640614
Show me one dime, Bubba. Fucking one.

Well yeah.

But it's not like putting on a good believable match is a bad thing either.

>>2640614

Why would I care how much money the guys make? I want to see good matches. So no, I don't agree.

Yes. Based as fuck. Smarks must be seething.

>>2640614
>MUH MONEY
>MUH MILES
>BUBBA
>DIMES
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

>>2640614
HBK is not gonna like that tweet.

>>2640614
better posting this on /wooo/, guaranteed 100 replies

>>2640622
This, and
>>2640620
>>2640625
>>2640623
Are faggots

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okay Bubby

DRAW A D I M E

Yes. Ratings fake fights is dumb as fuck

>>2640614
who dat who dat

>>2640634
>>2640638
are you bubba?

has bubba even drew a dime since 9/11

>>2640634

So you rather watch a shit match that made money (which doesn't benefit you at all) than a good match that didn't make money? Why?

Getting a big crowd involved in your match, on their feet screaming and hanging on every move of the finish is an important part of getting a big star rating. Big stars is literally always good for making money in future so what is his problem?

>>2640658
"good match" is subjective though
Hogan vs Rock got a average rating from Melzter but it's considered one of the best matches ever by people who are not obese smarks

>>2640614
What a ridiculously short sighted point of view. People pay money to be entertained. If you go out there and put on shitty matches you will go out of business.

Gettin' real tired of dumb meathead wrasslers that can't understand this concept.

>>2640667
>muh workrate
Normal people don't watch wrestling for the fake fights, only obese smarks

>>2640658
>implying we have the same taste
>implying we're even talking from a fan's POV and not the wrestler's POV

>>2640667
>What a ridiculously short sighted point of view. People pay money to be entertained. If you go out there and put on shitty matches you will go out of business.

the most money any wrestling company made was WWF 98-01
outside of a main event with Rock or Austin involved most matches sucked
match quality means nothing for business

>>2640672
This. Casuals just want to see two big stars fight. They dont overanalyze muh movez and workrate.

>>2640673

Didn't imply that at all. Or do you automatically like every match that draws well? (not that there actually are matches like that anymore anyway.

Bubba is perpetually foaming at the mouth because he's never got more than 3 stars on his own.

>>2640614
>Bubba
>Dimes

Dude can't even fucking draw pennies

>all the fags disagreeing with Bubba

Jesus Christ this place has really become reddit

Hogan being the biggest draw of all time proves that being a "good wrestler" is meaningless

>>2640681
You keep implying it, the message in the tweet is directed to wrestlers who mark out and actually feel proud that some faggot gave them a good rating when jumping around, not to the fans who watch the product

And even then, it's retarded for the fans to take that faggot star ratings as the word of God, like >>2640666 explains

From a wrestlers pov yes he's right. All wrestlers goal should be working towards main eventing manias and making a ton of money.

yes he's right. WWE is having the best matches they've ever had yet their ratings are shit. Match quality is nice but it doesn't draw shit

>>2640693
>And even then, it's retarded for the fans to take that faggot star ratings as the word of God

I see it independent from le meltz' rating, but generally the matches he rates high are pretty good anyway.

What Bubba said pretty much means: The quality of the matches don't matter, only money does...

>>2640614
Bubba No Pennies talking about how Match quality doesn't matter and dime drawing does, top fucking kek

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>stars are not real
the sun isnt real flat earth confirmed

>>2640718
He didn't said that, he's specifically talking about stars as in stars ratings, so he's saying: "Only thing that should matter (to wrestlers) is money, not stars ratings"

>>2640672
Who said anything about work rate? I said entertained. A five star match can come in many forms.

>Normal people don't watch wrestling for the fake fights
Modern anti-smark delusion. In-ring action (and I don't mean flippy shit) has always been the primary draw in wrestling. Yes, even in the attitude era. That's what the casuals want to see. If wrestling is just people standing around talking to each other like they are in a play it gets boring very quickly.

>the best wrestlers were terrible
>they still entertained me

Eating shit and liking the taste of it, summed up.

They weren't even terrible, you're just desperate to justify this draws mentality.

>>2640674
>>2640678

The matches in 98-01 were great.


It seems like its anti-smarks who seem to think that anytime someone mentions good wrestling they must mean muh workrate which involves lots of rolling around on the mat and holding each others wrists.

That is not the case.

>>2640727

>implying Okada isn't the best paid guy of NJPW.
>implying AJ isn't one of the biggest earner of the WWE during his first year already

>>2640718
>What Bubba said pretty much means: The quality of the matches don't matter, only money does...

or hes saying drawing money and getting people invested enough to attend shows to watch you perform is a better judge of success than some autistic weeb giving out star ratings

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>>2640666
>by people who are not obese smarks

You sound like a retard when you write that.

>>2640718
>The quality of the matches don't matter, only money does...

The two things are inseparably intertwined. To try to talk about them as if otherwise is just stupid.

>>2640736
Weird how Omega is more over than any WWE "superstar" wherever he goes since that 6 star match.

>>2640614
>restaurants with three Michelin stars don't mean anything because McDonald makes more money

That being said does metlz rating actually mean anything? Usually such grading systems are left up to more than one person. What happens when he dies?

>>2640614
Bubba dumb as fuck not everyone just cares about how much money they make and that goes for every job

>>2640752
>The two things are inseparably intertwined.
You sure about that?

>>2640728
>If wrestling is just people standing around talking to each other like they are in a play

see: TNA wrestling from 2011 to 2015.
There was one impact that had less than 5 minutes of wrestling from bell to bell in the show. And it caused TNA to take a nose-dive in its already meager ratings that it never recovered from.

>>2640752
>The two things are inseparably intertwined. To try to talk about them as if otherwise is just stupid.


why did HBK nearly bankrupt the company then having great matches? I bet Melzter gave his matches higher stars than Stone Cold ones

>>2640614
>dude match quality doesn't matter in wrestling lmao

oh you would know Bubba

>>2640762
People aren't going to pay money to see bad matches, anon. They might get suckered once or twice but you can't build a company on it.

>>2640614
HAHAHA based Bubba. Meltzer cucks BTFO

AJPW in the late 90s and Noah in the early 2000s don't exist! Match Quality doesn't matter!!! Stop Lying!!!!

>>2640769
>blaming Michaels for Vince's clueless creative direction that had failed for years

>>2640773
>People aren't going to pay money to see bad matches, anon. They might get suckered once or twice but you can't build a company on it.

Stone Cold wrestled Kane and the Undertaker for most of 98....

they sold out everywhere they went, people paid more to watch stone cold drink beer than any five star matches

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>>2640769
HBK's matches didn't nearly bankrupt the company. HBK's faggoty gimmick nearly bankrupted the company. His matches being very entertaining is what kept it afloat.

When Shawn was the champion men began to turn away because who would want to watch a company with a male stripper as the champion? Women, that's who. Women and a few kids who didn't "get" what the gimmick supposed to be about.

WWE is actually making the same mistake with Roman Reigns right now. They think he will be successful because he has "the look" aka he's handsome. It has never worked. None of the top men in wrestling have been famous based on their looks. Not even Rocky.

Roman can't even have a good match tho.

>>2640769
The business as a whole was down everywhere. Plus, Shawn was a fucking cunt who didn't appeal to fans.

>everyone using the past as comparison
What is and isn't a bad match has changed since then. At best a complete botchfest is a universal bad match. The old slow styles, the brawling, mat wrestling, spotfest, hardcore they all had their time in the lime light.

>>2640796
WCW was doing it's best business in history at the same time as Shawn was fagging it up

>>2640735
>implying Okada or AJ wrestle as good as they do only so Meltzer can give them 5 snowflake stars and not to give the fans what they paid for, which in return gives them (usually) more money

>>2640788
Was the whole show nothing but Stone Cold, Kane, and the Undertaker?

No. It had a whole card that likely had some great "muh workrate" matches on it. Those matches draw a certain type of fan. WWE tries to appeal to a broad demographic of viewers and pleases them with different matches in the card. 98 is when HHH and Rock had their ladder match that all the "smarks" wanted to see that night.

And it is not like Stone Cold, Kane, and Undertaker are shitty wrestlers. They had good matches. And there were quite a lot of other main events in that time period anyway.

>>2640802
>WWE tries to appeal to a broad demographic of viewers and pleases them with different matches in the card
Not really. They pretty much went after young males.

>>2640788
No one is going to pay to see Stone Cold drink beer night after night. They are going to pay to see Stone Cold raise hell and kick ass. And eventually stomp a mudhole into the ass of the heels. And -then- drink beer.

>>2640807
Wrong. WWF was always fucking around with appealing to old dudes in the mid-card. The freakin' Rock and Roll Express was in the WWF in 1998.

>>2640614
Japan

/thread

>>2640817
Were you even watching WWF in 1998? You bring up some cup of coffee run in order to prove that they were appealing to the masses. They went after young males, and didn't give a flying fuck about much else. Sure they might have a Freddie Blassie promo and a joke of an NWA run to shut Cornie up, but get real, they went after one demographic.

Marvel and Fast and the Furious movies are the only movies that matter. Rating movies is meaningless

>>2640835
If it wasn't the NWA, it was bringing back Terry Funk. Or thinking that Dr. Death could be a big deal.

WWE has always brought in old acts to get nostalgia pops in the midcard and to put over younger talent. And it has mostly worked.

>>2640691
>Disagreeing with Bubba No Dimesley
>Reddit

He's literally the opposite of /ourguy/

>>2640614
There is no such thing as a diet, or exercise.

Health is not real.

Food is.

>>2640826
Different culture.

Isn't Bubba one of those "show respect, pay your dues" guys?

Funny how it's not just a business when he wants you to kiss up to him.

>>2640912
He's also a big fucking mark. Scott hall once joked around by saying he'd kick out of the 3D and it sent Bubba into an autistic rage.

>>2640666
>but it's considered one of the best matches ever
It really isn't. And the crowd isn't even as loud as you smarks made it out to be.

>>2640918
He also got super worked by The Revival once.

So are you autists under the impression that Meltzer invented the concept of giving stars to something as a representation of how much you liked it? Are you all really that dumb?

>>2640666
>but it's considered one of the best matches ever by people who are not obese smarks

No it isn't.

It had a hot crowd due to the guys that were in it. The match itself was nothing special at all.

>>2640687
A midcarder in the WWE like Bubba makes more dimes than a "main eventer" in some rinky-dink outlaw fed like New Anime Puroresu.

>>2640953
>not in the WWE
>last run with the WWE was a joke

You retards think it's one or the other when the truth is you gotta have both.

Any match over 10 minutes (which any big time money main event is) with guys who are bad at wrestling is just as bad as one of the best worked matches between two guys no one cares about and by the end you still don't care. Both are shit to watch.


And notice how these "money only matters" marks are guys who were mid card at best like Bubba Ray, Bob Holly, or Al Snow.

>>2640974
>one of the best worked matches between two guys no one cares about and by the end you still don't care
But the whole point of expertly worked matches is to drawn in even the most disinterested crowds to the point where they are standing on their feet by the end. I saw a match recently between Dean Malenko and Eddie Geurerro in ECW where the crowd couldn't give a fuck at the start and by the end were giving both men a huge ovation. And what do you know it was described as one of the best worked matches of the year at the time.

>>2640614
Same can be said of the film industry. All that matters in the end is how much money your movie made. However, very few people not involved in the business of movie making but who are interested in movies care about how much money movies make. Which is why sites like imdb, RT and metacritic have more visitors than sites displaying the box office.

I can't really imagine any filmmaker or actor saying that they don't care about how their film is recieved as long as it makes money. At least not proudly.

He's specifically taking a shot at smarks shitting on wrestlers/creative in WWE because "muh 6 star flippyshit was way better"

Meanwhile, Roman Reigns and Braun Strowman can put more asses in the seats than an entire card of bingo hall shitters. Ryback is a perfect example of someone hated by smarks, but gets the biggest reaction at every indie show.

>>2641022
>I can't really imagine any filmmaker or actor saying that they don't care about how their film is recieved as long as it makes money.

There is some kayfabe involved in the film industry that is upheld which is related to this. The reality is a lot of directors and actors are just in it for the money and don't give a shit about awards, ratings, fans, or anything else.

But you'll never hear them say that because it buries the whole film industry and turns people away. You'll never hear Robert Downey Jr. truly shoot on what he thinks of the Marvel movies and the people that like them. Or Anthony Hopkins on the stuff he's done in recent years.

Old carny wrestlers like Bubba don't have enough brains to see this. Notice you'll rarely hear a former true Top Guy like Stone Cold mention any kind of "money and miles" BS because it's bad for business. He'll talk about the business plenty, but it's always in the light of "this would be very entertaining, so I wanted to this".

>>2640614
I don't understand this mindset. Why does he think they are mutually exclusive? Why would I, as a fan, care about how much money something made? I want to be entertained and if it happens to make money that means it was entertaining.

Why are wrestlers who never drew a dime like Bubbetty and Al Snow obsessed with drawing?

>>2641178
Sad thing there are people who care about that, but mostly only as a pretense to shitposting.

You'll see people crowing about how much money this movie/game did, the ratings this show got, and they'll be like "haha your movie didn't make a billion? what a fag."

It's a pretty fucked up kind of corporate loyalty.

>>2640614
I don't hold stock, fatso. Just entertain me.

>>2641185
cause they wrestled when Austin and Rock were on top

so unlike modern wrestlers they saw 20k sellouts every night of the week

wwe = capeshit in 10 years

>>2641201
Are you saying WWE is going to turn into capeshit in ten years or are you saying WWE now is what capeshit will be in ten years.

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>tfw the 20x smaller company gets half the attendance of wwe.
why isn't wwe getting 40,000 person house shows?

>>2641211
2nd thing. Reminiscing about its huge past box offices despite being out of vogue

>>2641201
That would imply WWE becomes successful again

>>2641213
I hate WWE but didn't New Japan only half fill the stadium for their biggest show of the year? In Tokyo as well, one of the most densely populated areas on earth

wrestling is dead all over the world these days

I understand that perspective. It's why Vince and WWE don't really give a shit about match quality. It's also why WWE caters to the kiddies and mainstream audience. It's about money, and draws, and the mentality that many on /asp/ have taken, like a bunch of short, fat, basement-dwelling Vince McMahons.

However, I watch wrestling for two things: the pageantry, and the in-ring product. I can get into really good storylines, but those are few and far between. So I rate matches and judge what I should watch based on the ratings of others that appreciate the physical aspect. It's all about preference. Bubba is right about the WWE, but there are alternatives that focus on quality matches above all else and do good business because of it.

>>2641194
Oh, I know that corporate loyalty is the new religious movement. But using capeshit as an example, Batman v. superman got panned from reviewers and ended up grossing poorly, get GotG 2 was well reviewed and is killing it.

Bubba's point is awkward because you see in other mediums that, entertainment quality= more money. What makes wrestling different?

>>2641228
Not a NJPW fan, but I was wondering about this for the longest time too. Apparently, Wrestle Kingdom was on a Thursday. Given Japan's insane work culture, that kinda explains it.

>>2641185

Because they benefited from the work that guys like Austin and Rock did to sell out big houses every night.

But it's funny because Austin loved the Okada/Omega match, and likes good worked matches.

>>2640922
>>2640936
samefaggot smark spotted

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>>2641248
>Japan works a lot meme

Tokyo is the largest city on Earth, and Japan has the most comprehensive and effecient public transit system I've ever seen. You're telling me that >90% of their home city's population doesn't ever indulge themselves with entertainment? Even if that were true, you still have 90mil+ people across the country with easy access to the very center of the country. Lastly, there's more than enough fat NEETs in Japan to fill the dome for one of the thousands of shitty local idols lip syncing. The fact that puro is supposedly so respected there, yet the largest event from the largest promotion barely beats a B tier WWE PPV is hilarious.

>>2641248
It's not a fair comparison for any US based entertainment companies to compare to their contemporarys over seas. Americans by far over indulge on bread and circus. It's like if hollywood movies bragged about drawing more than bollywood films.

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>>2641541

Yeah, Japanese don't care for movies, tv shows or video games at all. They don't even produce any movies, TV or games over there, it is a wasteland as far as entertainment is considered.

>>2640614
If you live under WWE roof, yes I agree. Obviously star ratings don't matter to the investors, and it matters very little to tv ratings and renewal contract. But if you moves past WWE shit, being satisfied from watching an event is a priority. And this correlates with star ratings.

Just imagine having to pick a UFC match, one with a top fighters and another that rakes in more money but main evented by Sage Northcutt. If you are a consumer, you are being irrational if you decide to watch the latter.

I am not saying Bubba is wrong. But he is not a consumer, so his views are irrelevant to what I think.

>>2640759
If Meltz gives an indie match five snowflakes it legit sells tickets and DVDs. Gabe Sepulsky and Kidani have said so.

>>2641594
Omega got a serious boost from that match with Okada, none the least probably because of Meltzer's rating.

Biggest wrestling stars of all time:

Hulk Hogan
Steve Austin (when he couldn't really work)
The Rock

"Good matches" don't matter. What matters is people invested in the match and the character.

Yeah, you can't go out there and be a complete joke, but if people are invested a few moves is all it takes.

>>2641673
Also, people can get invested because of good matches and storytelling in the ring. But that's not the only way and definitely not the easiest way these days.

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>>2641673

Stone Cold never needed a good match to get over and start a new era...

Getting people invested is one of the main reasons a match is good, anon.

People got invested into the Omega vs. Okada match, even people that didn't knew the story and were watching NJPW for the first time just to see that match.

>>2641694
People can get invested because of good matches. Obviously I would always rather see a good or memorable match.

But that is not why most people loved Stone Cold. They loved the rivalry with Mr. McMahon.

>>2640614
let's be real, he wouldn't be saying that shit if he ever had a 5 star match, he's jealous af

>>2640614
Ratings means more than money, because lots of people are watching for free in the internet today, but might pay for it tomorow.

>>2641744
True. He's obviously just talking shit to get more attention.

But actual stars aren't talking about "five star matches" either way.

>>2641673
>"Good matches" don't matter.
Horrible matches helped kill WCW. It's less to do with great matches and more to do with not having horrible matches.

>>2641754
Right, which is why I said you can't be a complete joke. The match has to seem like a contest of some sort, or tell at least a little bit of a story.

But "five star matches" don't really matter in terms of getting people invested in the fight.

>>2641761
>But "five star matches" don't really matter in terms of getting people invested in the fight.
lol how do you plan on getting fans invested in a match when it's already in progress? I realize in 'sports entertainment' promotions it's all about the storytelling, but in a promotion like New Japan simply having X wrestler vs. Y wrestler is usually enough to get the fans interested in the match based on the previous matches those wrestlers have had.

If both of them are known for having 5 star
or close to 5 star matches on a regular basis then them simply having a match together is reason enough to watch. It's no different than MMA or boxing in that regard.

>>2641772
OK. But current NJPW has never gotten as many fans invested as Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin and never will.

>>2641783
>But current NJPW has never gotten as many fans invested as Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin and never will.
Come on, son. Pro-wrestling around the world has declined. I doubt Hogan or Stone Cold would be able to pull in the numbers and money they did if they debuted now. It's silly of you to compare two different eras; especially since New Japan was doing amazing business as well in the 90s in a much smaller market.

>>2640614
No, I don't agree. Thinking of wrestling strictly as a business is the worst, saddest way to approach it.

All across North America there are hundreds of wrestling promotions with a couple of dozen performers on their roster. You have never heard of 99% of them and likely never will.
99% of the people who become professional wrestlers will not be able to make their living from it. The vast majority of them know this and accept it. So why do they continue? Because they enjoy it.

If you are one of the lucky few who do manage to make your living entirely from wrestling your main goal is going to be putting food on your table. That is a major accomplishment. That's actually the biggest success story in a wrestler's career, the day they can quit their day job and wrestle full time.

Once you get to that point where your basic needs are taken care of you start thinking about more philosophical aspects of wrestling. Are you happy with what you're doing? Are you leaving a legacy? Are you creating a future for yourself or others like you?

These questions all pertain more to match quality than they do to money. Again, if you are in the wrestling business for money you are in the wrong business. Money in the wrestling business is very ephemeral. Here today, gone tomorrow. One small step and you're injured and the paychecks get much smaller. (cont.)

>>2641799
You have to like wrestling. You have to like -good- wrestling if you want to have any lasting career in the business of wrestling. Because if you don't care about why or how you're going out in in doing something beyond getting paid for it you'll go insane, or be out the door after your first injury.

The star rating system is not a system of rating "workrate" as has been implied in this thread. Dave Meltzer has explained this many times. If you disagree you're simply being willfully obstinate of the argument at hand and trying to make a different argument. A five star match is a match that is very entertaining, nothing more and nothing less. What makes a match entertaining can be a variety of factors.

When Bubba says “stars are not real... money .. (real)” he is implying that the entertainment value of matches do not matter, that the only thing that matters is money. This is an insult to all the wrestlers out there who wrestle for years on weekends and weeknights while earning less than the gas money they spent driving to the match. And it also implies there is no art value in wrestling. That it’s an empty, pointless industry that’s only there to milk “marks” of their paychecks. What an incredibly sad, and outdated point of view. And a condemnation of his own self.

Don't understand why fans care so much about drawing power. Unless you are a booker, why do you care? Do Nintendo or Apple fans care how many units they sell?

>>2641791

They were doing amazing business when they threw psychology out the door and decided to rest hold for 15 minutes and then head drop each other until the finish.

>>2641799
>>2641802

Kenny, thank you for your input on this.

This is why you are New Japan's weapon against the WWE

>>2641783
Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Undertaker, The Rock....

Everyone in this thread mentioning them, and Bubba, need to get their heads out of the clouds. These men are anomalies. The exception, not the rule. When you are giving out advice to people in the wrestling industry you need to talk about what can realistically be expected. If you are wrestler and you only ever become as successful as.. let's say Curt Hawkins, you should count your blessings because that is fabulously successful for a wrestler.

>>2641804
>Iol I've never watched any Japanese pro-wrestling
And we were doing so well having a fairly civil discussion about the different approaches and merits of said approaches to pro-wrestling.

>>2641803
Lol yes they care deeply about that kind of thing

>>2641228
Half of the Tokyo dome is still a shitload of people. People seem to have this idea that if you're not as big as WWE you're not making money, but of course that isn't true.

>>2641673
Hulk is one of the greatest workers of all time. Suplexes and flips != working

Hulk could get a match over with his in-ring work alone. It was just gravy that he was world class in every other aspect of wrestling too.

>>2641814

>the 4 kings had psychology

What a mark.

>>2641849
Pillars, not kings. Now hurry up and admit you've never actually watched any of their matches; you've only seen gifs of their matches.

>>2640614
These are the words of a man who doesn't take pride in his work.

Pro-wrestling is as low as "low art" gets, but its still theater, and every performance has a level of quality to it which exists independent of how much money it makes.

>>2640614
>>2641868
Addendum
>Stars are not real
>money is
This faggot doesn't even understand basic economics.

>>2640652
Why would 9/11 be the end of Bubba's drawing ability?

>>2640695
That's a silly and stupid POV that isn't realistic in the slightest. WWE only wants ONE chosen one and a 1a to break in case of emergencies.

>>2640614
Ya could give Bubbetty Dudletty a nickel and four pennies for free and he still couldn't get a dime

>>2641475
I don't think you realize how expensive/hard it is to get it in and out of the middle of Tokyo on a weekday and be home in time to go to sleep and go to work the next day. They have good transit but the fact that people couldn't come in from further away from Tokyo and not be home in time to rest up for work in the AM had a lot to do with the 26k they drew.

Comparing it to WWE isn't even an apples to apples comparison because the US has about 2.5x as many people as Japan. Sure the weekday thing isn't the only reason they did not sell out but they're drawing way bigger this year so WK12 will probably draw bigger than 26k.

>>2641556
They just watch and play the vast majority of it on the go hence japanese based gaming companies mostly focusing on things people can play on transportation.

It seems they're more interested in shit that they can view on the go, it's almost as if they get fuck all time to actually go out or stay inside an indulge themselves in anything outside of the neets.

>this thread
>muh Austin
>muh Attitude Era
>muh WWE

There's more to the wrestling business than what you see on Monday night, kids. Across most of the world "man drama" isn't the draw of the wrestling business, the wrestling is.

>>2641804
NJPW's thing was they'd have short matches as well as long matches that were different from each other. AJPW is the one that you're doing a shit job at describing.

>>2640695
>All wrestlers goal should be working towards main eventing manias and making a ton of money.

This is about equivalent of saying every actor should intend to become Tom Cruise, or everyone who plays a guitar should think they're going to be the next Jimmy Page. It's ridiculous.

>>2641556
Youre being obtuse. Clearly the jave entertainment, but nowhere near the scale of the US. It's the fattest country in the world for a reason

>>2640620
I started watching wwe tv for about a month period after bubba returned at the rumble and then the dudleys officially returned. Its a shame that vince did so terrible at booking them because they were what made me give wwe a second chance for the first time in years.
The hardys are the third and likely final chance I'm giving new wwe material