Why is it that Austin and Cena are the last two faces of the

cena has had a 50-50 for almost half his run. Maybe more.

Austin and Rock also benefited from the remains of kayfabe.

The internet killed this idea of the company dictating crowd reaction.

>>2589775
Punk. Unless you consider him a heel, in that case, go fuck yourself fag.

>>2589797
Punk was ALWAYS second fiddle to Cena. As great as he was, Vince was never pushing him as THE GUY.

>>2589775
Cena was hated by obese grown men for almost his entire main event run.

>>2589775
They were built before mass spread smarkdom from the IWC. Roman came in long after.

The problems with Roman would be applied to Austin from the IWC if he were getting over nowadays.

>Oh boy, Austin wins again!
>Austin and McMahon program is dull!
>Austin never puts anyone else over!
>The Stunner is over, not Austin!
>The What chant ruined Austin's character!
>Why didn't they turn Austin heel!

>>2589807
I'm Obese.
I'm A Grown Man.
I Hate Cena.
Checks out.

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>>2589775
What about Tista?

>>2589815
This.

>>2589807
I know that. Hence me saying "and/or". Cena I felt was built well enough as "the guy" but was rejected by those obese fuckers you were talking about.

Why didn't Orton manage to become company face?

>Great looks
>Over as fuck
>Good on the mic
>Better than Austin in ring

I mean, he's got most of what Roman lacks

>>2589775
Vince is terrified of anyone getting famous from WWE and then leaving like the rock or austin, so the brand has to be over, not the talent. that's why they make for damn sure no one can get over anymore. everyone is over because no one is over.

>>2589815
Ironically, CM Punk and how he got over in a big way was to play Smarks against themselves, WWE should look back and try that again. Blurring the lines of kayfabe really fucked the smarks up.

>>2589830
He's boring as fuck. He was good in 09-10 as a heel, but he really hasn't had a great run since then and he's terrible as a face.

>>2589775
>Austin
>universally loved

Nope. Fans turned on him like they do everyone.

>>2589842
>They still fucking loved him during his heel turn.

18+ holmes.

>>2589842
Not that I don't believe you, because it happens to everyone. But do you have any specific instances?

>>2589817
He was super popular but in terms of 'face of the company' he was always second to cena.

>>2589775
Because Cena and Austin were both heels who were so entertaining on their own that even the markiest marks started cheering for them, making their turns natural and accepted.

This happened to the Shield and New Day as well but here's the issue with Roman's push

You couldn't have New Day break up and start pushing Big E as the top guy on his own without changing him and letting him get over on his own.

The Shield was over, not the individual members

If the FACE that built the place continues being face, he'll stay over.

Austin and Rock got pushed as the guy because they got over. Now they try get people over by making them the guy.

>>2589775
Cena wasn't.

People were really into US champ Cena, and nobody had a problem with him beating JBL.

As soon as he moved to Raw and they put him over Jericho, Christian, Angle, HHH, HBK and everyone else in a way that said "Cena is without a doubt better" and that soured people hard on him.

Cena from 2005-2014, from the second he ended Jericho's first run to the introduction of Suplex City was a hated man by male adult fans. Even those who didn't hate him hated that he was obviously booked a tier above everyone else.

That's also why people hate Reign's so much. He's great in the ring, not a great promo but decent, and has that superstar look but the fans are too smart now. They know that the real cool shit and important storylines aren't allowed to happen around anyone but Roman. On top of that we know that Roman will almost always win the feud.

The fans are booing the start of another Cena cycle more than they hate Roman.

>>2589896
You can't really call it a cena cycle when it was bruno, then backlund, then hogan.

It's the way the business has always worked for the ne territory.

>who is Daniel Bryan

>>2589896
I don't have a seething hatred for Roman, and since I stopped watching from like 2010-2016 I missed a lot of the stuff that apparently really made people dislike him like the '15 rumble.

I think Roman just reminds people of how scripted everything is, and takes them out of the moment. He's become a walking reminder of professional wrestling 'power levels' and how dumb they can be.

>>2589896
>As soon as he moved to Raw

I think a big part of it was how Cena was booked during matches. He would get his ass kicked, get in little offense, and then win. It made him look like a bitch who got lucky. It eventually changed, but the damage was done.

>>2589842
Source?

>>2589775
Cena and Austin had good mic skills and were edgy, so they brought in kids and casual fans. Roman doesn't have the attitude of the face of the company. Not to mention he's main evented Wrestlemania three years in a row, been shoved down everyone's throats, has no talent, and is only where he's at because of who he's related to and Vince's throbbing hard-on for muscular, brown men.

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>>2589921
Everything about him just seems so fake and manufactured. They don't give him anything to work with that dosen't sound like its been through a few boardroom meetings beforehand, hence the shit promos. Also the whole trying to come off as a badass thing, yet he does shit like cocking his fist before hitting people like that gives it extra damage or trying to get something as generic as "believe that" over as his catchphrase.

>>2589936
This was a huge part of it.

There was some real dissonance in how they portrayed him vs how he wrestled.

He'd always get his shit kicked in but would come out legit higher on the totem pole than the people who were kayfabe wrestling circles on him.

It was basically what Mysterio's world title run should have been, but stretched over a decade.

>>2589775
>cena
Holy shit, how underage is this board?

>>2590187
>stretched over a decade.

What I was talking about stopped like by the end of 2005, but I would need to rewatch shit.

>cena

Holy shit this retarded bait. And smarks hated stone cold. They were just an unvocal minority ulike the vocal minority now

>>2589775
Cena is kinda of a stretch. Things only started to get better for him after that US Championship run imo. Smarks in general have a warm reception of him nowadays, but there are a few cunts that are still getting worked by him.

>>2589807
He was still universally loved at one point at least

They just killed it by turning him into Super Cena

>>2589891

Yep your right and Seth an Deans 6 month feud with each other got them both over after they left.

Roman wasn't put into these he was just kinda around. Then when he was going to replace Dean and go after Seth because of the Dean injury angle he got his Hernia and had to be off until reappearing before the rumble and literally saying IM GOING TO WIN IT.

Romans year after the Shield break up was fucking terrible.

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roman is well built

Austin wasn't even SUPPOSED to be the face of WWF.

>>2589787
>Austin and Rock also benefited from the remains of kayfabe.

18+

>The internet killed this idea of the company dictating crowd reaction.

Eighteen FUCKING Plus!

>>2589815
>Austin got over BECAUSE of his appeal to that Era's smarks

Lots of underage schmucks ITT.

>>2589830
Because only one of those is true and even then he's basically a male butterface.

>>2590212
Smark crowds have existed since at least the mid 80s. And the smark crowds of the late 90s went BANANA! for Austin.

>>2589956
"Believe" was even The Shield's catchphrase because he's JUST that derivative.

>>2589842
>lying on the internet

>>2589896
>They're booing another super cena cycle more than they hate Roman

Ding ding we have a winner. Adult fans got sick of Cena's bullshit years ago. And they're sure as fuck not gonna deal with again from someone with significantly less charisma and half the in ring talent.

I don't hate Roman, the guy is plain average. But I do hate Superman booking with a fucking passion. When you just put your guy over everyone and their mother with no storytelling whatsoever, you're not even trying to achieve suspension of belief. You're holding up a neon sign that says THIS IS FAKE AND ROMAN IS THE BEST BECAUSE MANAGEMENT SAYS SO.

>>2589775
face of the company shit is so cringe.

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>>2589834
Yeah but now people fuck up Kayfabe in passing comments instead of never breaching it, then one day dropping a pipebomb. Remember in like August when The rollins/Balor feud was happening Seth brought up how his real name wasn't fucking Finn balor.

>>2591532
Austin showed up in the right place at the right time, with the right attitude. Faces of the company can't be purely manufactured, you can't write for someone who doesn't have natural intensity or charisma, then say " Okay Roman go out there say balee dat but with intensity and charisma "

>>2589775
>Austin: great talker
>Rock: great talker
>Cena: great talker
>Hogan: great talker
>Roman: "de.. de.. deglare"
you can't turn shit into a digestible art if you too are shit

>>2593502
I was moreso referring to how Vince hired Austin to be a good mechanic that would peak at jobber-to-the-stars.

>>2589775
>who is Bayley

To all the people saying Cena was 50/50, it doesn't matter; he was still a draw. Cena has been the top draw consistently for the last 12 years. Roman has been given the biggest push in wrestling history, and can't draw shit. He's been outdrawn by Ambrose, Styles, the New Day, Charlotte and fucking Sasha, and of course Cena. Honestly, Roman is the biggest flop in wrestling history.

>>2593551
Cena was only a draw compared to previous years where the likes of HHH killed the company.

>>2593551
>Roman has been given the biggest push in wrestling history, and can't draw shit
>the state of smark delusion

>>2593847
Well he can draw shit ratings/attendance, that's for sure.

>>2593542
Bayley is already ruined due to bad scripting and booking...and those two are also the main reason, why no face gets over anymore.

The WWE just always goes against the flow of things. Instead of realizing someone is over, so you go with that guy, they pick someone in advance and then try to get him or her over by force.

It is even more obvious with the women, because they are less and the reactions are very obvious.

Sasha was over like no other women and they never did anything with it. Instead she had to turn face and job out to Charlotte during all of 2016 so Charlotte can now become the new face of SD. So now she is supposed to turn heel again, but only in an attempt to get Bayley over.

Becky was the most over woman on SD and is a midcarder now as well, because they will always push Charlotte before her.

They pretty much did the same with CM Punk. And they only realized what they had with Bryan until he was already banged up so much, that he had to retire shortly after.

>>2593837
Then imagine how bad Reigns is, when he can't hold a candle to Cena...

>>2593847
yeah bro those tanking ratings and tarped off upper seating areas are really a testament to Roman's massive drawing power.

>>2593847
He may sell 10 vests compared to Cena's 15 cum rags per month, but how he currently draws simply isn't proportional to the 3 year long push he has recieved