Is he the GOAT?

Losing 3 million fans says otherwise. He lowered it to the shit level it is now. If that's not an anti-draw, I don't know what is.

>>2513907
Can hardly blame that on him. Wrestling as a whole became unpopular. When he's off, ratings dipped dangerously low.

>>2513903
>on top for 10 years
>respected and liked for a year and a half at most

All it took was WWE to give-in and give us what we thought we wanted (indie stars, young stars) for us to realize they all fucking suck compared to John. In fifteen years all the stories about backstage politicking will be out and everybody will ''hate'' him like they ''hated'' Hogan, but for now, we miss you John, come back soon!

>>2513912
It'll suck once he completely stops. I seriously hope he stays in a commentary or GM role.

>>2513903
There's no way he drew more dollar-for-dollar than Hogan, Austin or Dwayne.

>Damn good in the ring
>Incredible on the mic

kek

>>2513912
>what we thought we wanted (indie stars, young stars) for us to realize they all fucking suck compared to John.

ebin false flag

>>2513907
You can't blame Cena for that, shit, you can barely blame Vince.

Vince tried to build other stars (Batista, Rey, Edge), but they didn't stick with the fans.

Honestly, keeping the rest of the fans there is a testament to Cena for all those years.

>>2513915
Heyman said he did because of how long he's been there.

Does he get Raw or Smackdown a 6.0 rating? Fuck no, but he kept them at a safe level for so long that he has outdrawn them.

Plus the wrestling thing is a given. Not including his matches with smark favorites, one of the best E matches of the past decade was fucking Cena vs Umaga in 2007.

>>2513915
>>2513913
he's not as hopeless and talentless as HHH and I don't think he will abandon ship as much as Austin or Rock did, i think it will be somewhere in the middle. he will want some serious job and financial security, not breaking his ass in a ring

>>2513915
>false flag

Not sure what you mean by that, but Cena might be one of the top 5 mic workers in WWE history.

>>2513925
Not gonna argue the mic point. One of the most underrated promos was his "for the guy who's not here" against the Rock before their first match.

>>2513923
Which PPV was Cena vs. Umaga at? I'm interested in seeing this now

>>2513935
Royal Rumble 2007. Honestly it's one of my favorite gimmick matches of all time.

>>2513903
He is comparable to the Hulkster, there is no question about it.
>Is Vince fucked when he decides he's done for good?
No, it'll be rough for a couple of years, But vince will find his new golden boy, he always does.

>>2513939
The million dollar question is: does Roman check enough of those boxes to keep the company steady?

>>2513915
>There's no way he drew more dollar-for-dollar than Hogan, Austin or Dwayne.
He's been the top guy now for longer than any of those ever were for WWE, even Hogan.

>>2513945
I think people really forget just how short their runs were compared to today's guys.

Austin's E career was shorter than Dolph Ziggler's E career and he's still going strong.

>>2513903
Not even good bait.

>>2513941
no

>>2513945
so? Hogan and Austin were cultural icons and raised the level of importance of their companies. Cena is a meme and doesn't move the needle like those guys.

>>2513949
But the point is Cena is making more money for the WWE. Is it hard to believe? Yeah, but he legitimately is.

the WWE is so much different now. March prices have gone up, the cost of the ticket has gone up drastically (even including inflation)

Dollar for dollar, over the 15 years he has been here, I have no problem believing that he is a bigger draw.

A bigger icon? Hell no, but for the biz, he makes more money.

>>2513959
Merch*

>>2513959
That's so short sighted that even the incompetent high school drop-outs who run WWE can see thru it. Vince would take Cena out back and shoot him if it meant one year of an Austin or Hogan level talent/boom.

>>2513971
Wrestling was just more popular back then though. We're guys like Hogan and Austin a part of it? Sure, but it's mainly the culture.

Wrestling has this sort of stigma attached to it. For some reason when we got out of the attitude era, the stuff we did in it was seen as dumb and childish by the mainstream.

We could get a new Austin, but that won't mean shit unless the mainstream media views us differently.

Cena is helping that though, his show on NBC and hosting SNL were good steps.

>>2513903
His push drove away millions of fans that have never returned. One day people will look back and identify Cena as one of the biggest reasons for the death of WWE

>>2513945
Being on top for years during a boom > Being on top for years and years during a downturn

>>2513959
Cena made money for the WWE.

Hogan & Austin MADE the WWE.

>>2513979
Wrestling was treated like a joke before, during and after the boom years.

>blaming literally everything else for Cena being a B+ Face of the Company

>>2513989

>His push

Wrestling was completely shitting the bed by 2004, before Cena's big push even started.

Something happened between 2001-2004 that just turned people off of wrestling.

If we're using that logic: blame Trips and Batista.

>>2513989
>they pushed a guy who made them millions and that's what killed them
If Cena is so bad how come there are so many others that kill ratings today?

>>2513994
Because you can't blame Cena for the downturn. Ratings declined from late 2001-2004, before he was even pushed that hard.

If we're still talking the whole "draw" thing, I was only arguing that Cena has factually pulled in money.

Is he as important culturally? No.

>>2513996
They need to find someone who can keep the company stable FAST.

Yes, he is the GOAT of the merchandise era.

>>2514000
>pulled in money
>the biggest draw of all-time

You just played yourself there OP

>>2513996
>>2514004
Literally the only person in the last decade who hasn't gotten their legs cut out from under them is Roman "Box-Office Arsenic" Reigns.

>>2513903
1. Ric Flair
2. The Rock
3. Undertaker
4. John Cena
5. Stone Cold

>massive mainstream appeal
He's a fucking meme. Yeah, sure, everyone and their mother knows him, but they don't know him as a wrestler, they know him as a joke. I can't count the number of people I know who have his entrance music as their ringtone or who spout "AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CENA", but don't know anything about the product. He isn't drawing people to the product like Hogan, Austin and Rock did.

Not denying he isn't the biggest draw in the company right now regardless, but it's that stupid prank call video that's mainstream, not his wrestling persona.

>>2514184
>Undercarder above Cena and Stone Cold
lm fucking ao

PLEASE have sex, I implore you.

File: XmT1zmJQ.jpg (114KB, 1122x1125px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 1122x1125px

>>2514184
undercarder kek
>Never the guy
>Never drew a dime
>Never had a good match before 2006 and even then was carried by vastly superior workers
>Never cut a memorable promo
>Never put anyone over
>Never had the balls to step out his WWF comfort even when Ted Turner threw millions at him
>Main evented the lowest drawing Wrestlemania of the '90s
>Main evented the lowest drawing Wrestlemania of the '10s
>Tanked the buyrate of King Of The Ring in 2002 so hard the PPV got cancelled
>Was barely ever in the main title picture because he was never a big enough deal
>Only the 2nd best member of The Brothers of Destruction
>Only the 4th best member of The Ministry
>Only the 8th best member of The Corporate Ministry
>His backstage clique "The Bone Street Krew" was utterly BTFO by The Kliq and achieved nothing notable except inflicting Savio Vega on us
>His biker cosplay was cringeworthy
>His MMA cosplay was cringeworthy
>Unironically calls himself """"""""DA BEST PURE STRIKER IN DA WWE""""""""
>Shit taste in whiskey
>Shit hairline
>Has his ex wife's tattooed on his neck
>Failed at his first marriage so badly that he resorted to marrying an anorexic bimbo
>Only significant achievement was accidently being booked to have a Wrestlemania streak
>Is the wrestling equivalent of that one insufferably mediocre middle manager whose sole professional """""""achievement"""""" is staying in the same shitty job for 25 years

>>2514184
>Drew so poorly in his 1997 title run that Bret Hart of all people had to take the belt off him
>spent the latter part of his career burying superior young talent
>The biggest impact he had on the business was sitting around in the back and telling one of his no-draw buddies to job to someone who could actually draw dime.
>Buried DDP and ruined his potential WWE career because he didn't shake his hand backstage
>Buried Bray Wyatt (twice) for no reason
>Drew lower ratings in his feud with Kane in late 2010 than an Edge vs Dolph Ziggler feud, a Mark Henry title run, and a Christian vs Orton feud the next year
>In the same feud, lost 90,000 buys from the previous year at the Hell in a Cell PPV that included Cody Rhodes & Ted Dibiase Jr in the main event
>Killed the World Heavyweight Championship (the last time the WHC would be defended in a PPV main event was Hell in a Cell 2010)
>None of the Wrestlemanias he main evented got more buys than the previous year
>Only main evented 3 out of 24 Wrestlemanias he had a match at
>Was on the B-show for the majority of his career after the draft
>Huge mark for himself, according to Paul London he drives around with the license plate "DEADMAN" and wears his own merchindise
>Besides Wrestlemania 13 having the lowest buyrate ever, it is the only Wrestlemania ever not to sell out
>Couldn't draw LeBron James to come out of his locker room to meet him despite getting dressed up and waiting for an hour
>Voted for Hillary like the spineless cuck he is

Him, Cryan and Phil are just beta hogan/Austin/rock wannabes

Roman is so great he's more like Hogan 2.0 than Cena 2.0, those other two are the real Cena clones but the smarks will deny this.

>>2513995
>blame Trips and Batista

This. Say what you want about him now with NXT and everything he's got going on, but as a wrestler Hunter has done far more damage to the company.

Maybe if he was actually as good as he thought in-ring...

>>2513912
>indie stars suck

that's why Daniel Bryan and CM Cuck both outdrew Cena as soon as they were given a chance

>>2514000
In 2007 Cena main evented every single PPV going over clean on anyone.

And ratings collapsed more than in HHH's worst year (2003)

He was okay but couldn't stop the rot considering for two years straight he killed off any other credible main eventer.

Still not as bad as the WOAT Haitch who killed wrestling from 2003-05.

>>2513916

>Vince tried to build Rey

You can't just fucking say things and expect it to make them true.

>>2513916
>rey
Vince literally said "HE ISN'T MY CHAMPION" and took him out the mania main event before giving him 0 clean wins as champ and jobbing him out to booker T - Rey was NEVER a credible main eventer in WWE.
>Edge
Edge became a big player in the company but his peak overness was right after beating Hardy and cashing in the MITB. If Edge held the title and had a Wrestlemania main event with Cena at 22 then he would have been a star but he jobbed out within 3 weeks so Vince could shove Haitch back in the main event.
>Batista
Batista got moved over to the B Show when he was at his hottest and never really recovered.

>>2514214
get help

>>2514357
[redacted]

>>2514370
Batista was actually super fucking over from basically 2005 until turning heel and even then crowds still cheered him.

Guy managed to split crowds in his favour in double-babyface matches against HBK & Undertaker.

It's honestly impressive.

>>2514365
tbf during the Cena reign of terror he only went over handful of less-established guys that actually could've been something.

And even then Edge turned out alright.

>>2514370
Edge got hurt :\

>>2514399
I mean fair enough but the problem is that you can barely name anyone who became a top guy after Cena and Batista won their belts and became top guys
>Edge did
>Jeff Hardy kind of - the never went all the way with him and then he left in 2009
>CM Punk kind of but his first title reign lead to him being buried by orton and shoved in the midcard then his second title reign was used to get Jeff over, Jeff left then he jobbed to Carder
Obviously Orton as well but he got pushed before Cena and Batista so had that rub even though he jobbed out until about 2007.

Then there were a variety of guys who probably should have been bigger
>Carlito (kind of his own fault)
>John Morrison
>Wade Barrett
>Bobby Lashley (kind of his own fault)
>Christian
>Rey Mysterio
I'm probably missing others

The next proper top star that WWE had was CM Punk in 2011 and that was 6 years after Edge became a top guy.

>>2514430
Yeah, now name guys who got title runs as long as Rock and Austin did when they were on top. Exactly. There's always been three or four tops guys who swaps titles around and maybe two or three others who gets it for a month or so to transition. That's always been the case. Then the top guys jump ships/gets injured and replaced and the cycle continues. Cena just happened to never get seriously injured or jump ship. Why are you fucks acting like they're monsters for doing what the business has always done?

>>2514430
Christian was one of the guys I was mentioning.

I was specifically referring to the period from 2005-2007 where Cena just destroyed everybody in his path.

Jeff, Mundo & Rey not getting the ball has nothing to do with Cena.

Carlito screwed Carlito.

>>2514446
>Attitude Era
>long title runs

Junior what are you doing?

>Cena just happened to never get seriously injured

...this is a joke, right?

>>2514401
Edge & Cena basically had nothing to do with each other from 2007-2009 and 2009-on anyway

>>2514453
Name a single mid-carder who even got a four month title reign.

>kids here can't even accurately recall WWE in the mid 2000s

How about not revealing your ignorance?

>>2514457
There were literally only 3 title reigns, period, in The Attitude Era that even made it past 100 days.

>>2514446
>Y2J got a title run and was credible towards the end
>Big show got a run and was credible
>Mankind got a run and was credible
>angle got a run and was credible
>HHH got multiple runs
>Kane won the belt and was a credible contender
>fucking Rikishi was a credible contender
that's way more credible people in the attitude era than there ever was in the cena era

File: 316.webm (2MB, 510x400px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 510x400px

Austin is a bigger draw by far

and a better wrestler and talker

so 18+ please

>>2514521
>Y2J got a title run and was credible towards the end

18+ has never been more warranted.

>>2514353
They also burned out as quick as a cheap candle while John is still around.

>>2514647
probably because Vince kept putting cena in the main event when he shouldn't have been

>Cena vs Big Johnny main evented over Bryan vs Punk

>>2514647
>wrestling an intense style is worse for your body than 5MoD

Really forced me to ponder.

Question, why did people boo the shit out of John literally the next Wrestlemania after his big push?

>>2514989
Against fucking Triple H too, I might add

>>2514353
D Bry sucks, fuck off faggot

CM Punk is great and definitely brings a very particular energy to the product that it has been missing ever since and he's the only guy who could touch Cena on a promo, but don't pretend CM Punk's popularity isn't a direct reaction to the kind of proto-typical superman Cena plays/is.

>>2514989
people started turning on him against Y2J and then went full on against Angle, both noted smark favourites at the time

>>2514353
>Daniel Bryan and CM Cuck both outdrew Cena

Delusion.

>>2514353
kek
>muh punk sold more merch than cena
>for one week