Ric Flair on Bret Hart

Wow two old men who never once drew more than a penny arguing over whos penny was shinier.

None of them drew dimes.

Ric Flair added a lot to the business and he's someone to learn in terms of heel skills, but on his own he really didn't drew much.

>>2298470
When did Flair say this? He's right btw.

>>2298470
Bret could wrestle circles around Flair.

>>2298482
Wrestling is by far the least important thing about professional wrestling

>>2298484
If you genuinely believe this, then you should just start watching soap operas. Not even kidding.

>>2298486

Mt Rushmore GOATs

>Hogan
>Rock
>Stone Cold
>Cena

What did the complete history of professional wrestling mean by this?

>>2298490
Spotted the E Drone.

>no source and Flair suspiciously coherent.

not buying it.

>>2298492
Oh sorry I forgot about Tiger Mask and Dynamite Kid and the Giant Baba

>>2298478
2004

>>2298493
http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_9138.shtml

File: THE GOAT.jpg (74KB, 564x558px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 564x558px

>>2298494
Thanks for the laugh.

>>2298496
Sup Kenneth. Go ahead post ya top 4 of all time I could use a chuckle

>>2298490
>Cena

Responsible for the biggest drop in ratings in WWE history while being 'the guy'. He's put professional wrestling into pop culture obscurity

File: triple-h.jpg (42KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 500x500px

>>2298500
>Responsible for the biggest drop in ratings in WWE history while being 'the guy'. He's put professional wrestling into pop culture obscurity

File: HNI_0021.jpg (44KB, 700x525px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 700x525px

>>2298470

>If you put Bret Hart in your left hand and me in your right hand…

put your hands together...

>>2298500
myth

Cena and Batista actually stopped the three year rating decline when HHH was "the guy" and brought the ratings up for the last time two years in a row.

Notice the "4.01" average rating for 2002? They didn't hit a 4.0 once in the last four months, going on during this time included shit like RAW becoming the HHH show and Bischoff handing him a belt.

Mid 2002-late 04 was all HHH and WCW rejects, and it drove away millions. It took 9 years for there to be as big of a drop as there was from 2001-04, and Cena wasn't even the guy by 2015

File: raw96-15-1.png (8KB, 820x434px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 820x434px

>>2298508
forgot pic

https://www.twnpnews.com/information/wweraw2002.shtml here's a link if you don't believe them not hitting a 4.0 for the last four months. In fact after June they only hit a 4.0 or higher twice, 4.3 and then a 4.0

>>2298508
> 2003 haitch reign of doom decline -0.24
> 2007 Cena reign of doom decline -0.29

>''Cena stopped the decline''

Says no rating average ever.
Unless you want to tell me that the 2001 decline was out of Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock, then I can laugh harder.

>>2298514
>> 2003 haitch reign of doom decline -0.24

Did you even read my post about 2002? Look at the first five months, they're in the mid 4's the whole time and even hit 5.0 twice. By the last six months? They hit a 4.0 only twice and don't get a 4.0 for the last four months. By then, it was clearly the Triple H show. That's a much bigger decline than anything Cena ever did

>>2298501
>>2298508
HHH as the guy on RAW in the mid 00s still had higher ratings than Cuckdown in the mid 00s

Plus the ratings Raw used to get consistently during HHHs "Reign of Terror" Cena NEVER got ratings cane close during his 10+ year Reign of Doom

>>2298514
>triple h becomes the biggest """""""""star"""""""" halfway through 2002
>don't get a 4.0 a single time in the last four months, .63 drop despite austins heel turn and the wrestling boom already being dead by 2001
>drops again the next two years
>Batista/Cena bring up the average in 2005
>cena brings it up again in 2006
>takes almost a decade for there to be as big of a drop as there was with gaytch in two years

>>2298516
Dude Cena was the top guy for literally over a decade and the ratings and buisness has sunk to 1996 tier and STILL haven't recovered because of it, you can't blame the last decade of trash Cena on HHH...

Cenas' damage in 12 years BY FAR out weigh HHHs' damage in 2 and a half years..

>Bretcuck has no comeback whatsoever to Flair BTFO his precious Bret
>proceeds to attack HHH to deflect

>>2298517
>HHH as the guy on RAW in the mid 00s still had higher ratings than Cuckdown in the mid 00s

Is that supposed to be an accomplishment? The A show is supposed to beat the B show, the fact that he even lost at all is embarrassing

>Plus the ratings Raw used to get consistently during HHHs "Reign of Terror" Cena NEVER got ratings cane close during his 10+ year Reign of Doom

It took 9 years for there to be a ratings drop as big as 2001-2004 under Cena's run, and he wasn't even the top guy by 2015. Around Summerslam 2002, HHH is the top guy on the show and they don't get a 4.0 rating again in 2002 after hitting it every time for nearly four months in a row to start the year off

Yeah, but......at least Bret isn't a drunk racist, so.......

>no source

>>2298524
WWE was still getting 4.0s consistently (twice a month) in 2002/2003. End of 03 to 04 is where it consistently got mid 3.0s.. Those ratings are better than anything Cena has in over a decade as the top guy, 2006 was Edges year and he was the reason the ratings jumped. Cena has KILLED the WWE and has buried more talent than Hogan/HHH combined, you can't name 2 guys who Cena has put over and made stars in 10+ years.

Cena is the LOWEST drawing top FACE in WWE History and isnt close and yes even a lower drawing top face than Bret/HBK, at least those two have the excuse of going up against Peak nWo/WCW, what's Cenas excuse for these shit ratings the last 10 years?

Cena is the sole reason WWE is dead, accept this fact of life and move on.

>>2298482

t. Butt the Hurtman Cuck

>>2298541
>WWE was still getting 4.0s consistently (twice a month) in 2002/2003

I stopped reading right there because apparently you haven't been reading mine. Or you did and you're just saying lies. I'll post this for about the third time now

https://www.twnpnews.com/information/wweraw2002.shtml , they didn't get a 4.0 once in the last four months and they only hit it twice total in the last six months. https://www.twnpnews.com/information/smackdown2002.shtml , Smackdown did no better. As for 2003? Same pattern.

https://www.twnpnews.com/information/wweraw2003.shtml, didn't hit a 4.0 a single time after August. Now let's compare to 2005

https://www.twnpnews.com/information/wweraw2005.shtml, 4.0 5 times in the last four months. Including a 4.5, which was the highest rating since the post Mania show in 2003. (Eddie tribute show). Even discounting that 4.5, he drew far better than HHH as the top guy

Actually read next time, then reply

>>2298522
HHH also contributed in 2008.

>>2298533

>Yeah, but.....
>so.......
>muh racism

hello /redditor/

>>2298550
they got a 4.3 rating on september 1 2003 but other than that you're right

gaytch was a complete failure as the top guy, total disaster. As soon as his shit pretend four horsemen stable ended the ratings went up. I will say his opponents were usually shit as well but he had a long feud with his butt buddy Hbgay that did fuck all for the ratings so that's on him

Ric's better than Bret, but he's exaggerating. Bret's a legend and is at least top 20 GOAT contender.

>>2298511
The biggest drop off in ratings were from 2000 to 2001 and HHH was injured in 01 so how is he the reason for the biggest ratings drop off like you claim?

>>2298541
>2006 was Edges year and he was the reason the ratings jumped. Cena has KILLED the WWE and has buried more talent than Hogan/HHH combined, you can't name 2 guys who Cena has put over and made stars in 10+ years.

Cena is the LOWEST drawing top FACE in WWE History and isnt close and yes even a lower drawing top face than Bret/HBK, at least those two have the excuse of going up against Peak nWo/WCW, what's Cenas excuse for these shit ratings the last 10 years?

Cena is the sole reason WWE is dead, accept this fact of life and move on.

/thread

>>2298568
Did you notice I said "2001-04?" I even said the boom ended by 2001 and ratings still dropped huge

I was comparing Cenas and hhhs runs only

>>2298573
Fine. You win, I lose.

>>2298560
The only good thing to come out of Evolution was the Batista feud. They botched ortons face turn just so they could get "youngest wwe champion" off Lesnar who just bailed on them. The ratings tell the same story, rising in 2005 when Batista starts getting pushed and the feud starts

>>2298573
You still lost the argument because the drop off from 07 to 08 is bigger than any drop off that happened from 02 to 04. I'm not including 01 because HHH had nothing to do with that year.

>>2298571

Except it's been stated Cena makes a big difference on house show attendance, draws ratings, and sold five times as much merch as the second most guy in 2014 at times.

https://mobile.twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/792779373417902081

>Cena has been considered the company's top guy now for five years, and as top guy pulled things from a business low point to a solid point. He's not the Bruno Sammartino/Austin/Hogan level top guy, but business wise he's way ahead of Bret Hart and solidly right behind the biggest draws during a successful period. It's not about one man like it was in the past, but he clearly draws a kids and women's demo that wasn't there before and is one of the better merchandise sellers in history. - Meltzer, 2010

>>2298582
Do you have a problem with reading my posts or something?

>>2298550

Triple H got handed the ball midway through 2002 and they got a 4.0 rating only two times in the last six months, that's on him. Imagine how much higher the "4.01" could have been

I'm starting from 2001 because he got handed the keys to being the man in 2002 when Austin walked out and rock went to film a movie. The drop from 01-02 is on him, especially when you see how well they were doing the first half of the year and how bad they were the second

>>2298582
lol how many times does that anon have to repeat it to you. when Raw became the gaytch show in mid 2002, it flopped and like he told you five times they didn't get a 4.0 rating one time after august. He was the top guy then and it was a total failure. you can't just start from 2002 and ignore the drop from 01-02 when he was the reason for the average rating being much lower than it could have been

>>2298589
I know dude, I was wrong. Stop rubbing it in. Leave me a lone..

>>2298585
The drop off from 01 to 02 was on Jericho, HHH didn't get the belt until April then he dropped the belt in a month to Hogan and didn't get it back until August, and by then majority of the top guys (Rock, Austin, Hogan, nWo) were gone, that's why the ratings struggled, HHH had to carry the ship on his own like Bret and HBK did and he did a better job than both of them

>>2298589
>>2298592
Samefag

>>2298598
>The drop off from 01 to 02 was on Jericho
You must not have watched at the time. While Jericho was champ the focus was on Haitch, Rock, Austin and nWo much more than it was on Jericho.

>>2298598
>until August

Exactly, and they didn't get a 4.0 rating a single time after August. That's a failure

>on his own

Funny you mentioned HBK, because he feuded with him on and off for about two years and it didn't do move the needle. Did he have shit opponents? Yes, but in two and a half years you're telling me he couldn't do anything until the Batista feud because of a "lack of stars"?. That starts with the main man, and it was Triple H

>>2298605
>That starts with the main man, and it was Triple H

HHH was a HEEL top guy, if a heel has shitty faces to feud with and that the people won't get behind than the show won't draw as much..

HHH did his job to perfection as the top guy and that was to be the most hated man in the business, it wasn't his fault all the faces were garbage (including Beniot) until Batista.

>>2298614
He apparently didn't do his job good enough if he couldn't make a star out of anyone until Batista

Shawn, RVD, Orton, Goldberg were all over as fuck at one point and he couldn't bump up business with them. He had shitters like broken down Steiner of course, but he also had opponents that were over and he couldn't draw with them. And I'm going to take a wild guess and say feuding with Shawn so much was his idea, again, that's on him

>>2298623
I forgot Nash, who was also a top guy on RAW for a little while in 2003. One guess for who pushed for that

>>2298614
This.

HHH was one of the GOAT Heels in the ranks with the nWo as the top guy but unlike the nWo he didn't have a GOAT babyface to feud with like they had in Sting.

If Sting came to WWE in 2002 him and HHH could've drew a lot of money together.

>>2298623
>Orton

He was never over until 2007

>>2298638
He was immediately after he won the belt and turned, it died shortly after but he was hot at one point. He got cheered over Benoit in Canada

>>2298623
> he couldn't make a star out of anyone until Batista

That's one more star than what Cena has made in 3x the amount of years.

>>2298470
Neither of these two has ever drawn a penny. THey're both jokes

>>2298648
Him and Edge got each other over big time. And you can't say Edge made him a star because the ratings were up drastically in the second half of 2005 before they even feuded, and Cena was already the top guy by then. At the same show Orton got cheered over Benoit at, Edge got booed because he was a stale and shit face

>>2298655
>Implying Cena doesn't politic and kiss as much ass as possible backstage

Yes a man who's a 16x World Champ who's been on top for over a decade and that has lost less feuds Clean than anyone in WWE has no stroke backstage.

"Cena promised little Jimmy with cancer he'd win tonight, HE CAN'T LOSE DAMMIT"

>>2298668
>Him and Edge got each other over big time.

No Edge got Cena over. What got Edge over as a heel was cucking Matt Hardy in real life, Edge was the only guy they would boo in a feud against Cena at the time. They were even cheering for HHH>Cena in their WM22 match.

>>2298676
>we can't say he likely dictates the courses of his angles with the authority Triple H does.

Mr.Kennedy and Ryback would disagree.

>>2298677
>No Edge got Cena over

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URSA1uC9Bes#t=1m24

Cena was already over big before they even feuded and them hitting a 4.0 or higher 5 times in the last four months (after hitting it only one time combined in the last four months from 2002-04) proves that

They cheered for HHH over Cena because it was Chicago (smark town) and HHH was destroying him in promos. Notice I haven't called HHH a shit wrestler or anything, just blaming him for the "guy who put professional wrestling into pop culture obscurity" like the original post references

>>2298681
>you can hear some male voices chanting "Cena! Cena! Cena!"

Wow, time flies

>>2298475
>didn't drew
back to school kid

>>2298681
>They cheered for HHH over Cena because it was Chicago

I don't care where it was, they wouldn't have cheered for HHH>Rock, HHH>Austin, hell HHH wasn't even getting cheered against Roman last year.

Cena was/is fucking ass and a terrible face, the fact that HHH was more over than him at Mania in his peak proves that.

>>2298471
>>2298475
Pretty much this. The shitman is still a bigger draw than wreck flair

>>2298698
>his peak

His peak was 2000. If you mean during the reign of terror his peak was 2003. He cooled off by then

>HHH wasn't even getting cheered against Roman last year

Are you kidding? Remember when he pedigreed him on the steps and did the suck it after? He was getting cheered like he was the top face

>>2298710
I was talking about Cenas' peak not HHH

>>2298496
Who is that

>>2298712
Ah

How did this become a faggot hhh thread

>>2299087
Worked by the CEREBRAL ASSASSIN

When Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels were on top, WWF almost went out of business. It took both of them leaving for WWF to become successful again.

Triple H used HBK and the clique at the beginning of his career, and when HBK left he used Stephanie McMahon. He never had any success on his own, he always had someone powerful backstage backing him. He drove away people by the millions between 2002-2004.

Cena has been booed by at least half the crowd in almost every building he goes into for the last 10 years. He's supposed to be the companies top face. He's failed at that, and in those 10 years he and WWE never even attempted to try something else. It makes no sense. The way he's been booked has driven as many people away as it has attracted people, and a lot of people that still watched did it despite Cena, not because of.

>>2298470

All of this is just Flair shitting on Bret for having a career ending injury.

Bret having and injury that prevented his career from being half as long as Flair's isn't really a good argument.

>>2299125
I don't think Cena is the biggest problem here, although he certainly isn't the best that the company can use as a "face". The problem is Vince's obsession with the stereotypical babyface that wants to hug children, dance around the ring and make fool of himself. Ever since Hogan's success Vince just never let go of that formula and only Nitro dominating the wrestling business for a short while made Vince want to switch his formula before quickly reverting back to his usual shit.

He just can't get that shit into his head - wrestling fans don't want to watch a stereotypical babyface vs le ebin bad guy. They don't want a face for the company, they want a good storyline and multiple superstars who make wrestling great. They don't want a cliche family oriented product, they want an edgy "attitude" wrestling. This is wrestling ffs, not a kids show (at least it shouldn't be).

So until VInce learns that, which he never will considering he hasn't learned anything by now, we'll be stuck with the shitty PG wrestling that is slowly dying.

Vince hasn't learned that by now and he will most definitely will not

>>2299087
bretcuck damage controlled after having no response to Flair BTFOing shitman

Cringe

>>2298471

Literally /asp/

>>2298470

Everything he said is utterly true. Brrrap Shart is his own biggest mark.

File: Triple_H_slingshots_Bret_Hart.jpg (477KB, 2000x1125px) Image search: [Google]

477KB, 2000x1125px

>I'm a big fan of Bret Hart, but HHH has drawn tons more money than Hart. One was the top guy during $80 million years and the other was the top guy during $375-425 million years.

>(HHH) would be only behind Rock, Austin, Hogan and Flair. For total PPV money drawn, he'd be well ahead of Flair. Hart nor Flair ever headlined a PPV show that came close to the interest level of 2002 Rumble. And everyone in the company will credit HHH's return to the buy rate of that rumble, even though it was years after the peak of the company, it still beat out every rumble during the peak years.

>HHH was never the draw Austin or Rock were. But here in San Jose, HHH drew the biggest crowd for a house show in the history of Northern California when neither Austin nor Rock were on the show (HHH & Rikishi vs. Angle & Kane, and it was clear HHH was the star of that show). When Hart was on top, there was never a period he could draw more than half of what HHH was drawing on his own at his peak, for a regular house show.

>Hart was never a big ratings guy. HHH's best run in Canada blows away Hart's best run in Canada for live gates.

File: RAW was held here.jpg (73KB, 720x404px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 720x404px

>>2298470
He was WWE champion when RAW was being booked in high school gyms and drawing crowds of less than 2,000 people.

You don't believe me?

http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwf/monday-night-raw-916.html

This was from when Bret was feuding with Bob Backlund for the title. Yeah, that put some butts in seats alright.

>>2300106
Network link to an episode that takes place in Struthers High School.

http://network.wwe.com/video/v34584663?contextType=wwe-show&contextId=raw_replays&contentId=84981216&watchlistAltButtonContext=series

File: crowd.jpg (188KB, 1419x1087px) Image search: [Google]

188KB, 1419x1087px

>>2300118
right before HHH's match.

>>2298486
Literally what wrestling was and should be

>>2298484
You're an idiot and haven't been watching longer than 5 years, and you have never stepped foot outside the WWE babby universe.

>>2298475

>Flair never drew

This fucking delusion

>bretcuck had nothing to say and had to deflect to Gaytch instead

lmao pathetic

Ric Flair called teddy long the n word

File: 20160806_230951.jpg (85KB, 360x360px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 360x360px

>>2298470
>I've fought more wrestlers
>that means I'm automatically a better wrestler
The Rock pales in comparison to the experience Flair had and he's a much better wrestler.

Flair going off on a sour egostic rant as usual.

>>2300403
He was a local attraction in the territories then came up to the big leagues thinking he could rival the best wrestlers, once wrestling started to stagnate he only appeared better to garbage talent.

Anyone who says he was a bigger draw than Hogan/nacho man or even fucking ultimate warrior is delusional.

>>2301694
He was the biggest draw of the 80s not named Hulk Hogan

>>2301650
Who cares nigger?

>>2301695
In Japan he was a bigger draw in the 80's, which means fuck all because nobody but gooks paid attention.

Flair is a nobody. He never wrestled George Hackenshmidt, Karl Gotch or Stu Hart. What sort of career did he have? How many times did he wrestle Bob Backland or Big Daddy?
Reminder that Ric Flair has held the only relevant title in wrestling less times than Sheamus

>>2301695
> drew less than a thousand paying fans to an 85000 seat stadium in the biggest match of his career
> sold a grand total of 40 dollars net in WCW the year before hogan came
> a draw
Kekekek

He was a 60s carnie throwback that wrestled the same match for 30 years and the only reason he is slightly relevant these days is because he is gaytch's favourite wrestler

>>2301715
>> drew less than a thousand paying fans to an 85000 seat stadium in the biggest match of his career

Damn. What match/date?

>>2301715
He wrestled some of them probably once or twice, which does nothing for your career except "I fought them"

>>2301719
Wrestlewar 89 vs Ricky Steamboat
Often considered his greatest and biggest match ever

Flair is essentially Dbry but worse.

Catchy phrase for cheap pops and a push when he got to the big leagues. Instead of RoH fans getting behind him when he started the big leagues it was fans from the territories.
And WCW/WWE's urge to get him to the top.

>>2298484
Abd that's why it's fucking stupid and needs to die. the only things you losers even talk about is drawing power and promos. pathetic

>>2301729
>Wrestlewar 89
>Attendance 5,200
>Capacity 9,700 in the round, 8,000 (basketball), 9,432 reserved in the round

>>2300192
Do you think casuals prefer soap opera or wrestling the most?
Movies are one of the biggest attractions to casuals, movies focus on drama and/or story telling, not stunts.

WWE is in the gutter right and do you know what WWE focuses on now? Wrestling. Austin wasn't the best wrestler in 97-99 and he was THE draw during that period, same for Hogan in the 80's.

>>2301756
>I would rather WWE hit the gutter than deny what I want
So you want the minority to get what they want?
Go back to wrestlingforum and jerk each other off.

Besides, WWE is currently giving the smarks what they want, indie/NXT shit with a high WORK RATE. What else do you want.

>>2301764
Here is the article http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1710735-free-falling-the-sad-strange-career-of-former-wwe-champion-ric-flair

I got the number wrong
Less than a thousand people paid to get into a stadium that seats 70000+

>>2301650
teddy does seem like a nice person

>>2301828
>http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1710735-free-falling-the-sad-strange-career-of-former-wwe-champion-ric-flair

So Clash of the Champions 1989, not Wrestlewar.

Anyways, that's pretty interesting. I think Flair is a bigger mark for himself than Bret, if that's even possible.

>>2301895
Ah ok, my mistake

File: 1481779873059.jpg (77KB, 947x363px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 947x363px

>>2298499
>ya