Raw Ratings

>>2271868
Seth "Fruckin'" Rollins

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>>2271868
Loss of Austin
Permanence of Triple H

>>2271868
Triple H

Roman Reigns

>>2271868
Give us the same graph except adjusted for the ever changing meaning of rating (due to the ever growing TV viewing population)

Scripted promos
Bad 50-50 booking
Overall dilution of the product
Decline of cable TV

Combined to make it so even though the roster's possibly the most talented it's ever been, nobody actually gets any momentum, so nobody gets over. So nobody cares about the product.

Also, cable TV is dying a slow painful death.

>>2271868
Look up product life cycle. Today there's MMA and Netflix and more things to do

Anybody who blames it on any one particular star, or even any of the talent in general, is an idiot. Literally 100% of the blame lies at the top.

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Or Horse?

Shitty creative and lack of larger than life characters

Jasethy
Deannetty
But mostly Gaytch

>>2271868
Fans being fags.

>>2271924
Unironically this, there was and isn't anything booking wise that can be done to bring wrestling back.

>>2271868
No more tits and ass for curious kids.

HHH killed a lot of the viewers. Roman is helping to finish the remaining fans off.

>>2271868
Beyond horrible booking and equally bad story telling.

They need new writers and a complete overhaul of everything. They haven't changed with the times. People are watching Game of Thrones and Walking Dead now

>>2271868
Everything

>>2271917
decline of veiwer count has nothing to do with ratings as ratings is a percent of viewers.
the rest is right though

>>2271924
>>2272149
So sitcoms are supposed to be dead since other sitcoms have exosted sonce the 50s?
Just shut the fuck up

>>2272198
Well, which are we talking about here, the viewer count or the rating?

'Cause both of them suck and have been in total freefall the last two years.

Cable TV dying. There's nothing a single show on a single network can do to change the direction the market is going. This only pertains to number of total viewers though, not ratings.

Rise of UFC. You simply cannot sell WWE over UFC to a normie, normies believe that everything in the WWE is soft and fake and will not take scripted wrestling over a real fight no matter how little entertaining the fights in UFC are.

Rise of Netflix. Shows these days are in a completely different level of quality than they used to be and entire seasons are available on demand. Nobody wants to talk about what happened on RAW anymore, they want to talk about what happened on Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. And myself and everyone here might be biased because we're already big fans of wrestling but ask yourself this, what is your average normie going to prefer spending their time on, 3 hours of RAW or binge watching a show like Black Mirror or Stranger Things on Netflix?

Besides all that, wrestling simply ran it's course on the mainstream, it was in vogue for a few years and then it got tossed aside, most of the fans during that time weren't into wrestling before and they weren't gonna stick around after. No particular flaw of creative, talent or management can ever be blamed for this. Sure you can argue that Stone Cold turning heel is what sparked the beginning of the end, but even if that didn't happen sometime somehow your next big storyline hook would fail to hook the casual audience, it just so happened to go down the way it did with Austin but it was inevitable anyway.

>>2272204
What did you mean by this? And besides yes, sitcoms really are dead, the only sitcom that drew dimes in the past, say, decade was Modern Family.

Botched Invasion and Hunter'rs reign of terror

WWE is poised for a comeback if they don't screw it up.
UFC is fading away and about to have a terrible year financially since they have no draws.

>>2272232
Ronda fucking off into the California woods to be a hermit for the rest of her life really screwed them over, because now Conor can essentially hold the company ransom and he knows it.

Having said that,
>if they don't screw it up.
>WWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wol70cBLNd8

>>2272214
>No particular flaw of creative, talent or management can ever be blamed for this.
I mean...
>3 hours of RAW
How about we start here?

I wouldn't say wwe is poised for a comeback.
But they have a new audience of reddit faggots and tumbler sjw's and dumb bitches who watch the E! channel
while old school smarks look down on them all and call them jabornies.
And asp trolls everyone

>>2272249
Ratings were in free fall long before that. And the third hour of RAW brings a shit load of advertisement money. Remember that WWE is PG now so big companies like KFC do advertisement there and companies like that pay far, far more money than anything they ever had before, they make more money this way, even if they have less viewers.

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When i was a kid wwe was a part of pop culture, now its just some niche thing nerds talk about.
And not even like comic book nerds, but neckbears who are nerdy about sweaty man grappling.

A whole combination of things has led to this.
Going PG, the rise of the UFC, cord cutting, shitty bookers and writers, inability to create new stars, getting new stars, like actual guys who could possibly become new stars, then burying them. Vince scared that if a new star gets bigger than the company they will fuck off to hollywood.

I feel like everything in the world became shit, like movies are nothing but remakes now.
And like we all scream, hey maybe if you did this it might get better, but then the people running things just sit back and go "mmmmmmmm, no", and continue to lose money and ratings.

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>>2272283
Wow you just said everything i think about.

>>2272260
>this convoluted nonsensical WWE dicksucking

wow

>>2272260
>big companies like KFC do advertisement there and companies like that pay far, far more money than anything they ever had before, they make more money this way, even if they have less viewers.
Ding.
>>2272283
>getting new stars, like actual guys who could possibly become new stars, then burying them. Vince scared that if a new star gets bigger than the company they will fuck off to hollywood.
DING DING DING DING.

Here it is. Vince doesn't want anybody getting more over than the company, so instead of making a good product that will resonate with people and make them wanna pay for it in the form of merch, PPV buys, tickets, house shows, networks subs, he makes money through TV deals and advertising revenue.

The brand is the draw because Vince doesn't want anybody to get bigger than the brand.

>>2272283
You got jaded.

Wwe always was shit booking. Half of the stuff in the attude era would be considered shit in the 80's.

Human beings really gave up on the fad that is wrestling. It was already near dead before the late 90's boom period.

>>2272318
He's not dicksucking, he's stating a fact. That "Record High Revenue" that everybody's been shitposting about? It's because of their TV deal with USA, which is actually pretty ridiculously lucrative.

He's not saying it's a good thing, but it's how WWE makes money.

>>2272320
>vince doesn't want popular people on his show

You faggots cannot be this stupid. Jesus Christ...

>>2272232
Ufc was never big ratings wise, also boring.

The next wwe era needs pop culture, a over draw, and a new wrestling style,

>>2272328
Oh, he wants popular people on his show. Goldberg? Brock? Yeah, absolutely. Pay 'em for a few months to come in, be a big name for WrestleMania. Or bring in somebody from pop culture like a celebrity or a Ronda Rousey.

Just not his full-timers. Look what happened with Cena. We'll be lucky if he's on WWE for more than six months this year.

>>2272327
Wwe entire merch zone and tv deals is the main source of income.

Sponsers help too.

They could save money by removing house shows operating costs.

Cable tv is in decline in usa mostly. But not everywhere on earth.


The entire market changed.

>>2272342
>Look what happened with Cena.

A dozen years of loyal service while holding down the product and only getting better with age?

>We'll be lucky if he's on WWE for more than six months this year.

He's 40 and, frankly, WWE should make everybody a part-timer. Over exposure is one of the worst things you can do to any entertainer nowadays, be it wrestling, music, movies, etc.

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>>2272324
wrestling has had multiple boom periods, in the 50's, 80's and 90's.

I grew up with the attitude era, wrestling was part of pop culture.
Normies knew the wrestlers names, wrestlers were guest starring on tv sitcoms, wrestlers would do tv commercials, and not like car dealer shit, like legit big company commercials, ratings were threw the roof.

>>2272350
This. You have to admit that if it was even only twice a month that someone on Raw accidentally ran their mouth too far and you heard Roman's theme hit, you'd mark.

When it's 3 times a night...bllleeeegggghhh

>>2272327
No he's stating IWC memes spouted to protect the precious, precious brand. Not facts.

>>2272350
>A dozen years of loyal service while holding down the product and only getting better with age?
Yes, but I doubt that's how Vince sees it.
>He's 40 and, frankly, WWE should make everybody a part-timer. Over exposure is one of the worst things you can do to any entertainer nowadays, be it wrestling, music, movies, etc.
Hey, no arguments here.

Did you know Vince offered rowdy roddy piper some shit wwe film deal because he didn't want him to they live, now a classic horror sci fi movie that will live forever.
Vince cant stand it when wrestlers leave and are successful without him

>>2272379
>Yes, but I doubt that's how Vince sees it.

I would bet Vince likes and trusts Cena more than he does HHH. Why do you think Vince can't see how valuable and good Cena is, when he lets him do whatever he wants?

>>2272372
What did he say that wasn't true?

>>2272368
>>2272368
I already know that. Still the fact is boom periods eventually fade out.

This time it's never going to big unless it's connects to what non fans whats. And that is pop culture, a new style, a top face they want but who also draws.

I don't buy into this armchair booking, considering Wwe booking was always flawed and nonsense.

>>2272372
I didn't realise I was dicksucking anybody, but hey please tell me how having big companies do ads with WWE doesn't make them a ton of money.

>>2272407
>low ratings
>lots of money from ad revenue

pick one

>>2272409
Doesn't matter how many viewers you got if companies don't want to associate with you. This isn't like internet ads that work on a per-view or per-click basis.

>>2272416
So you think KFC is paying more money just because they are KFC? You think KFC is happy paying a premium to a show that is hemorrhaging viewership? What business school did you go to?

>>2272428
>So you think KFC is paying more money just because they are KFC
Yes, yes they are

>>2272431
lol okay man

>>2272428
Still gets more viewers than anything else on USA, dude.

>>2272428
Modern businnes.

Tv rating are all down across the business.

It's the tv deal giving them money, but they only get that money if the ads and lots of ads get shoved down your face.

>>2272232
If UFC can get Floyd that PPV would get more buys than all of WWE's PPVs combined.

>ctrl+F
>Linda McMahon
>"Phrase not found"

You're all wrong.

>>2271868
What happened in 06 again?

>>2271868

That huge dip you see there from 2001 to 2004 is all thanks to Triple H.

And then they alienated soccer moms from taking their kids to shows cause it became softcore porn for horny teens with the bra and panties matches, and then in 2008 they alienated said horny teens by going full PG. And then the rest is history.

>>2272605
The anti-draw stable Evolution was gone and Cena was the top guy instead of Gaytch

>>2272232
>UFC is fading away and about to have a terrible year

Lol dummy UFC made 10 times the profit WWE made last year. What kinda idiot thinks it's fading away?

>>2272612
It's funny how you didn't even read further, because it says "financially" right after. Anyone with eyes can see they're profits are going to drop.

>>2272615
>Anyone with eyes can see they're profits are going to drop.

Even if they drop they still trounce WWE by a long shot.

UFC isn't even direct competition. Someone who watches MMA purely isn't going to start watching mandrama, whereas someone who watches mandrama is more likely to start watching MMA cause of people like "CM Punk" making the jump.

>>2272283

>And like we all scream, hey maybe if you did this it might get better, but then the people running things just sit back and go "mmmmmmmm, no", and continue to lose money and ratings.

That is literally the premises of Bring It To The Table. The host/fan discusses changes he would like to see and Heyman was like "fuck you. we know better".

>>2272622
MMA is just as fixed as wrestling. Did you not see the latest UFC event?

>>2272232
>If WWE doesn't screw up
You must be new.

>>2272626

This is what mandrama casuals want to believe

>>2272632
No really did you see it?

>>2272633

Why do you always want to believe everything is a "work" like your awful mandrama?

>>2272638
So you didn't see it? Okay.

>>2272633

i'm not that guy but i saw it. just the same old shitty judging that's been around forever. reffing is still bad overall.

>>2272328
Well he sure as fuck doesn't want any of his full timers to get popular.

>>2272640

I saw it and the first thing guys who watch WWE always say is that it looks like it borrows from their scripted show, when it's actually the other way around.

>>2272647

He does. They don't want a ace anymore.

>>2271868
The proliferation of the Internet, Netflix, exponentially more channels, etc.

>>2272220
This, almost every sitcom styled show has a short life because very few of them are notably unique.

>>2271868
3 hour Raw

>>2272655

>This excuse

How come Walking Dead still gets 8 times the ratings that RAW does despite it being on the internet and netflix?

What a meta excuse.

>>2272663
Yeah.

Too much wrestling on raw.

>>2272664
Latest fad. Exception the rules.

Zombies are more cooler in the mainstream than wrestlers.

>>2272669

Fad? When wrestling was on back in the day it would get current walking dead ratings.

>Zombies are more cooler in the mainstream than wrestlers

Yeah and that's cause wrestling as a whole became stale because of the reasons people have stated here. Muh netflix and muh internet play like 0.5% of the reason as to why ratings are in the toilet.

People always tune in for post WM RAW and then they realize it's still as horrible as they remember it being and they tune out till next year.

>>2272664
OK. Now imagine the The Walking Dead before all those things I mentioned. They would have cut into The Walking Dead as well. Audiences are more fragmented across the board.

And these types of mega successful hits are fewer and more far between in this day and age, but there will always be exceptions.

>>2272722

No. You are literally wrong. Television as a medium isn't dead, especially live television. Ratings still matter. This netflix, muh wwe network whinings are meta excuses Vince and smarks use to justify just how much the product sucks.

If a show is good, people will want to tune in LIVE to see it, cause it's can't miss, and they don't want to get spoiled about what happened. I don't watch RAW or Smackdown live anymore, I just go on the WWE youtube page and get a quick run-down in 10 minutes cause I don't care all that much about it as much as I used to back in the day.

Title changes don't happen anymore,except for the women's title apparently, which I already know Charlotte is gonna win back so it takes away the novelty and prestige of the title, the show is dragged out and stale, the characters are stale, the matches are formulaic, nothing entirely entertaining happens, Michael Cole's annoying voice, Corey Graves' cringe-worthy references, formulaic matches that all end the same way, overly scripted promos.

It's a huge dumpster-fire. And most of the population know this. Only die-hard nerds keep up with 10 hours of WWE programming a week.

The only thing that could be considered wrong is the huge hike in ratings during the attitude era, and to a lesser extent the 80's. Wrestling isnt really suited to be this giant cultural phenomenon, and those hikes are just relatively small deviations from its more modest norm

>>2272677
>>2272755

Business executives admitted tv cable ratings are in decline and been this way for decades now. Cable tv is expected to die in the 20 years.

Where the hell have you been? And what reality do you live in? Sure isn't the one everyone lives in.

Wwe is comfy with their status regardless of armchair bookers.

>>2272956

I literally just wrote out what could be categorized as an essay on a chinese imageboard as to why TV ratings still matter. And how shoes like TWD and GoT still get monster ratings despite also being streamable on the internet.

>Where the hell have you been? And what reality do you live in?

A reality where pro-wrestling will never become mainstream ever again. You were probably born when the decline had already started.

>>2271868
Netflix,dvr, cord cutters and of course smarks watching on streams and/or downloading the torrents the next day

what are the best legal ways to watch tv on the internet like netflix and shit?

>>2273043

Directv now.

>>2272320
Well sooner or later the brand won't be the fucking draw because everyone will have gotten sick of WWE and moved on which means the big companies advertising through WWE will fuck off somewhere else, so that really is retarded logic that they're using if it's true.

>>2273018
I was born in 1985. Cable tv ratings are in decline.

Not my fault you live in a homosexual universe.

Majority of the attitude era fans never watched pre attitude and won't ever again.

If there's ever a boom again for this niche market, it won't for tv ratings.

>>2272089
Autism

>>2273069

>Other shows that are also on the internet get better ratings than RAW by a country mile

>RAW will drop to 0.5 ratings in your lifetime and schmucks like this will use the justification that "it's just them dang ipads and netflix"

Imagine being this out of touch.

>>2272260
It doesn't change the fact that 3 hours has dramatically accelerated their loss of audience. How much damage do they have to do to their viewer-base before it stops being worth it? Is more money until 2019 when their tv deal expires worth losing over half their audience? Is it worth killing the company long-term?

>>2275027
They made hundred of millions selling fake sports, Vince will sell before he dies he doesn't care about long term because he knows he got lucky with these massive tv deals

>>2272350
>WWE should make everyone a part-timer

This. I doubt Hogan would have lasted nearly as long if he was cutting 20 minute promos every week in the 80s. The more you see someone, the less special they are.
That said, Stone Cold and The Rock managed to stay hot on a weekly schedule.

>>2271868
The Shield, they were tolerable as a tag team but since they've split, all three have been pushed to the Moon and it's annoying constantly having at least one of them in a main title picture.

Worst thing to happen to WWE since it went PG

>>2273084
Oh you are retarded.

>>2272602
THIS.
MOTHERFUCKING THIS.

>>2271868
WWE often got screwed in terms of their top draws.

Rock was going into Hollywood. Austin took his ball and went home.

At various times, HHH or Cena got overpushed when neither were getting THAT much love from fans.

Stars that were getting near unanimous, Hogan/Hart/Rock/Austin levels of overness, either got their pushes stopped due to drugs (RVD, Jeff Hardy) or they weren't really being pushed when should've been getting pushed (CM Punk, Daniel Bryan) or they retired (Daniel Bryan.)

WWE hasn't had a consistent, definitive, THE GUY since Rock/Austin.

>>2275067

Actually you are grandpa

Only a complete idiot says ratings don't matter. Even the president knows they matter.

>>2272255
>asp trolls everyone

>a board so Dead that even my posts make it to the top

what did anon mean by this?

>>2276749
>WORKED

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>>2272350
>ver exposure is one of the worst things you can do to any entertainer nowaday

isnt that what he did with EMMMMMMMALIIINNAAAAA?

Haitch killed wrestling

>>2275153
>Hogan/Hart/Rock/Austin levels of overness

>the three biggest names and draws in wrestling history
>and bret hart

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Nothing went wrong.

WWE's viewership is basically at their average.

The Attitude Era was a rarity of circumstance with too with many reasons to name for the explosion in viewership. The primary reason, though, is there was a major promotion (WCW) with the money and distribution to challenge WWF, particularly by raiding their talent (Hogan, the biggest draw ever) and then making some smart booking decisions (turning Hogan heel).

>>2272602
how?

>>2272625
kek

>>2271868

The success of Austin and The Rock, largely due to their own charisma and not Vince's idiot micromanagement, gave Vince an even bigger head, and he began getting rid of competent minds that disagreed with him on anything, like JR, who could have been counted to keep the quality of the product a bit higher.

So now the entire product is produced in a stifling, top-down manner by a doddering old narcissist followed around by a bunch of bobble-headed dorks.

>>2272260

Yeah, chasing away literally millions of viewers in order to air more commercials isn't a disastrous move in the long term or anything.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the situation. I'm saying the situation and the man in charge are retarded.

>>2272283

>the rise of the UFC

Reminder that Shane wanted to buy UFC in the early 2000s but Vince killed the idea thinking it would never be over.

Vince is literally the worst thing to ever happen to pro wrestling.

>>2272283

>I feel like everything in the world became shit, like movies are nothing but remakes now.
>And like we all scream, hey maybe if you did this it might get better, but then the people running things just sit back and go "mmmmmmmm, no", and continue to lose money and ratings.

Except the Hollowwood shills make money hand over fist because witless idiots will pay $15 to see another Avengers movies with so many fucking jump cuts and plot holes no one could possibly have any idea what is going on.

I hope that, in 30 years, we can look back on a majority of these superhero movies like we currently look back on the old Christopher Reeves Superman movies. As complete and utter dogshit only a tremendous stooge would think is good.

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What are you smarks on about? I love pro wrestling...I really DO NOT CARE if "others" and "normies" love it or not ...I will ignore them as always and watch because wrestling makes me happy...I will watch it 24/7 if it was on tv 24/7....no wwe network cuz other problems.......but i love wrestling.....Honestly,I would be so happier if they made Raw 6 hours long and Increased the roster size to at least 60 to 80 wrestlers Per Brand or 3x bigger than the current roster simply by ELIMINATING ALL CANCER INDIE COMPANIES........Variety and unpredictability are why i love wwe

and im sure there are others like me to sure wwe exists as long as planet earth exists

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>>2272350

>holding down the product

That is unfortunate, yet remarkably accurate phrasing.

It's seriously just Gaytch.

>>2276837
and im not trolling or attention whoring ..... just posting it how it is.....oh yeah and fuck mmafags

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WWE is dying

>NO

>>2276849
this

money is food and if the wwe's dying of anything its only obesity

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>>2276851
>money is food and if the wwe's dying of anything its only obesity
I'm not making the Kevin Owens joke if you're not

>>2272370
>>2272350

You'll notice that LU does pretty much exactly this. Guys who aren't in a spotlight feud won't appear on every show, but every time they do appear, something happens to further whatever storyline they are in. And it's usually short, sweet, and to the point.

This keeps most of the characters dynamic and fresh and the audience stays into most of it. It helps TREMENDOUSLY that they only have an hour long show.

RAW has to put everyone on every show and draw everything out to the point where, even if it was good or fun or entertaining to begin with, it's fucking dead 15 minutes later when it finally ends.

>>2276797

WCW didn't start existing in 1997