So, can we talk about how Raw has ruined Enzo and Cass. I mean

>>2091044
>So, can we talk about how Raw has ruined Enzo and Cass. I mean they are really just joke characters

So, literally the absolute exact same as before?

>>2091044
The Revival praying they go to Smackdown.

They were always shit

Ram ruins just about everything they touch Kevin Owens is the biggest joke champion since Jericho, also coincidentally used as little more than a Stephanie flunky.

>>2091044

They were ruined when they turned unironically face

>>2091044
You're a dumbass.

>>2091298

THANK YOU

I can't think of a single person on RAW, that has been with the company for at least three years, that was not over at one point or another in this company. And they have absolutely KILLED every last fucking one of them.

Roman was over when he was in the SHIELD and didn't fucking talk.

Seth was over in the SHIELD when he was allowed to just have matches. He was over AFTER the breakup during his feud with Ambrose when he looked like a threat and was given a halfway decent angle.

Rusev was over when all he did was murderize people and occasionally holler in Russian gibberish.

Enzo and Cass were over when they were in NXT and actually booked competently.

Sasha was over before they turned her into a shitty, overscripted face.

Even Charlotte was over 10 months ago. They've ruined that.

Bayley was over back when people who weren't dumber than syphilitic gibbons were booking her.

KO was over as a "prize fighter" heel, before they turned him into Aitch's fat, bitch-born hanger-on.

Everything they touch turns to shit.

>>2091298
>little more than a Stephanie flunky.

Isn't that basically how every long running Champion has been since like 2012? "The Authority" decides who's going to be champion and then fucks with whoever tries to come up against them?

The only reason they aren't tag champs now is because of Demolition's lawsuit forcing the WWE brass to make New Day break the title reign.

I wouldn't call them ruined since Big Cass is as protected as Strowman and Roman. I wouldn't be surprised if they dethrone Sheamus and Cesaro next year at Wrestlemania.

The Rusev cuck angle is just a filler feud that should end in the Royal Rumble.

>>2091044
go tell that to the vaudevillains

>>2091069

So they can be like the ascension?

Raw ruins everyone.

It's run by idiots, the entire show is based on trying to make the samoan failure a draw, failing at it and repeat by burying every other star.

>>2091044
Meanwhile in Smackdown Simon Gotch is getting pinned in under five seconds and not even by finishing moves. What's your point?

Enzo & Cass will get the belt in one try whenever they challenge. In Vince's eyes, they're bigger than the tag team belts just like New Day.

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128KB, 250x294px

>>2091602
>>2091386
They're still employed?

Would've thought that ye-olde-style faggotry expired and they got shitcanned for being manlets by now.

Enzo and Cass are one of the few guys on the roster that people care about despite the fact that they have never held a title. It'll just make the moment they finally do win the belts that much more special.

>>2091387
The Ascension were ruined long before the brand split. It wouldn't surprise me if Smackdown is able to rebuild them. It won't happen, but if they were on Raw there would be no hope.

>>2091602
>Meanwhile in Smackdown Simon Gotch is getting pinned in under five seconds and not even by finishing moves. What's your point?

Jobbers before the split. Not a priority for the division.
SD has better usage.

>>2091827
SD has made Slaterhyno over and put the straps on them, and actually gave American Alpha a chance too

>>2091608

How dare you! That gimmick is excellent!

(But Jack Gallagher does it better)

>>2091853
They pulled Tyler Breeze back from total obscurity and made Breezango look like a capable team too.

The Vaudevillains situation is weird. Enzo's injury made them look tough right after their debut. They put on a quality match with New Day at the ppv. Their promos leading up to the match showed that they were both highly confident on the mic in ways that most of the new era are not. The time machine skit was probably the most memorable New Day promo of the entire year, certainly better than any of the promo work The Club managed to do with them.

It's not like the crowds were dead, they got a decent reaction for new guys. They didn't hang around and make people sick of them either. They had exactly ONE high profile match with New Day and then they vanished from tv. They could have had a lengthy feud with Enzo & Cass after Enzo got back from injury but no.

Then they came back on tv briefly and lost to Golden Truth in a quick match, and if I'm remembering correctly they were the first team GT managed to defeat.

Now they're on Smackdown. Breezango defeated them to go to Survivor Series in a match that felt like it was less than five minutes. When American Alpha won that tag team gauntlet a couple months ago, Gable pinned Gotch in three seconds and all he did was lift him into the air and let gravity faceplant him. They were the first team eliminated from the tag team battle royale a couple weeks ago, and again Gotch was eliminated in the opening seconds by Mojo Rawley of all things.

Meanwhile guys like the Usos get a character makeover and tons of screentime and Smackdown brags about giving every wrestler a fair shot. It's horseshit. Smackdown hasn't shown The Vaudevillains' black and white intro one single time since the split.

The NXT tag belts are a curse more than anything. American Alpha might turn that around, and Kalisto has had minor success, but otherwise winning them should be the last thing any developmental team wants.

>>2092242
And I'm not saying the NXT champion has a fantastic track record, but it's been noteworthy for the most part. Bo Dallas' career is dead right now, and Zayn's still hasn't really gotten started for some reason. But Rollins is a big name. Big E is a record breaking tag champ. Kevin Owens is the longest reigning Universal Champion of all time.

The tag titles are pathetic. Rowan and Harper have played security guards most of their career and now Rowan is totally missing. Blake and Murphy didn't even make it off NXT before becoming jobbers. The Ascension.

I'm worried about The Revival and DIY.

I'm pretty sure Vince hates anyone who comes up as a champ from NXT nowadays and purposely tries to bury them when he gets his hands on them.

>>2091044
there is something about the long-haired alpha that sets of my gaydar 100000%
he wouldn't happen to be brazilian, ethnically?

>>2092271
>Rollins
face run ruined because of Roman, stuck with crappy feuds, could and should have been a big draw now, he's flat
>Big E
Ok, New Day legit move merch, we'll see if he goes anywhere when they split, their record title is actually for external reasons, not much their own merit
>Owens
because Balor got injured, and his run sucks so far

They are all underwhelming by now.
Rollins should have been huge by now, Owens is a step back from his debut match against Cena, Big E is stuck.

RAM sucks.

>>2092271
You have great points but Erick Rowan is currently injured so it's not like he's missing. Just a nitpick with your argument

>>2092337
not Vince, but certainly Kevin Dunn does

there's various stuff about him hating NXT and trying to sabotage the promotion, it'll be the first head to go when HHH takes over.

>>2091385
>The only reason they aren't tag champs now is because of Demolition's lawsuit forcing the WWE brass to make New Day break the title reign.


Demolition sued the WWE so that they wouldn't break the record for longest defense of a championship title where the results of the matches are predetermined? What legal grounds did they have for that?

>>2091608
>Would've thought that ye-olde-style faggotry expired

I liked the ye-olde-style faggotry. Call me reddit if you want, but the video packages they put together that were like silent films that showed boxing with bears, lifting those weird triangular weights, and stopping the Lucha Dragons from robbing banks were funny and original. They haven't done a single thing like that since they came up, and are essentially tossing away the best parts of their gimmick to act like everyone else.

>>2092271
>for some reason.

Yes, wow, what a mystery, better call Sherlock Holmes....

>>2092342
>, not much their own merit

lol fucking SEETHING

>>2092271
>Kevin Owens is the longest reigning Universal Champion of all time.

That's not saying much considering the Universal Title is only a few months old.

Raw books all faces as boring, humourless cunts. Reigns, Balor and Rollins are all the same. Whereas the heels come out and crack jokes and have some charisma, the faces just repeat "I'm gonna beat you up".

The heels meanwhile are chickenshit in the ring. Remember Rollins last year when Brock beat him up like a jobber?

I don't understand why they do this. Having weak heel champs means that when the faces finally win, it doesn't feel like a great achievement. Meanwhile no one gives a shit about the faces as the heels are being funnier and more charismatic.

Look at Smackdown - it might not be perfect but Ambrose is at least being given a fun character to play where he just doesn't say "I'm gonna beat you up". Miz and AJ meanwhile are built up as credible champions.

It's also why people loved Enzo when he debuted, as he had actual charisma and was insulting and mocking the heels in a funny way.

>>2092577
People still love Enzo, and he still has charisma, even when he's in a wheelchair.

>>2092577
>weak heel champs

I'm so fucking tired of the weak heel bit. I get that you're supposed to dislike them, but you can only watch the Champion's little bitch interfere with the match so many times before it gets old. Hell, watching people like the Miz or Kevin Owens defend is essentially like watching the Royal Rumble to see how Kofi is going to acrobatically avoid elimination. You being to wonder more about what Maryse and Jericho are going to pull out of their asses this time.

What's wrong with Kevin Owns being an asshole who's also such an excellent technician that he wins a lot?

>>2092586
He cant wrestle

>>2092586
Yeah, but no thanks to WWE. He's loved because he's so charismatic that it overcomes bad booking.

There's not one person on Raw that wouldn't be more popular if they were on Smackdown - Reigns included. My bad actually, Steph wouldn't actually be in 1/3 of the show if she were on Smackdown...

>>2092591
The Miz is a bit better at least as he's won matches on his own or at least they mix it up in how he cheats.

How many matches has Owens won because Jericho has come out? Worst of all is that the interference alone normally isn't enough. Look at Raw - Jericho distracted the ref multiple times and still Reigns won. Way to make your champ look strong.

>>2092342
>their record title is actually for external reasons, not much their own merit
Nnnnah. They got stale at the end, but New Day was the most over act in the company and the only thing making Raw watchable for long stretches of time.

They earned the right to break that record, outside circumstances or no.

>>2092591
The Miz is better about this because
1) He commits to the character so thoroughly and his character work is just so fucking good
2) He uses so many different tricks, that when you get to that moment where he reaches into the bag of tricks one after the other and they just come up dry, it feels soooooo gratifyng.

This is why No Mercy was a MotY candidate despite having Dolph "I SHOUT A LOT" Ziggler on the other end. Heeling at its finest.

>>2092601
lol at least once he beat Roman because Rusev interfered, not Jericho.

To answer your question, KO has exactly two clean wins since he became champion - on Raw, against Sami Zayn.