When did people start considering him as one of the GOATs? I

>>1888786
This. HBGay nearly killed WWF in the 90s and has always been an overrated worker.

>>1888785
>When did people start considering him as one of the GOATs?

"""People""" didn't. He's just one of WWE's mass-marketed golden boys they like to pretend was a GOAT because he was friendly with the right people despite the fact that he never pictured a penny.
See: Undercarder.

Nah, you must not have been around. He was already considered as one of the GOATs before he even got injured.

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>>1888786
>>1888787
>>1888788
he's one of the absolute best in the ring and was incredibly charismatic, people in the business voted him #1 of all time a couple of years ago because they think that he is the best ever
that's why he is considered the GOAT

>>1888785

Even as a kid who didn't really watch the WWF in 97/98, I knew who Shawn Michaels was and I really wanted to unlock him in No Mercy.

>>1888785

Nobody talked about him in 2001 because a lot of the people watching had only started because of Austin and hadn't even seen Michaels wrestle. He entered the GOAT discussion because he came back and was one of the best few people in the company after four years off.

>>1888785
>I stopped watching wrestling in X
when's this meme going to die?

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>>1888793

>>1889907
Below cena lolllll

>>1888793
>people in the business voted Haitch almost top 10
>Undercarder #2
>HBK #1

Lmao what marks

>>1888785
After he had a meme match with Undercarder in 2009. He's only a smark darling anyway, nobody cares about this guy in the real world

Shawn Michaels was the best wrestler for WWE in the 90s not to jump ship. From a technical standpoint he was better than most of WWE/WCW wrestlers in the 90s, at least the main carders. Hes not a big draw but he had a ton of legendary matches in the 90s, and when he came back he was consistently good until his retirement

>>1888793
The logic in this list is hard to follow

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>all of Bret's fans are as bitter and angry over something that happened 20 years ago as he is

Fitting

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>>1888785
If you name your top 5 matches of all time and HBK isn't in at least 4 of them you are doing it wrong.

>>1888793

> Triple H
> No Randy Savage

The fuck is this

>>1890630
Or you watch literally anything besides 90s/2000s WWE

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>>1890637
That's why I granted you one spot. With my spot I am going with either DDP vs. Johnny B Badd from starched 95 or Rock Hogan at Mania. All the rest have HBK in them you putz.

>>1890649
You're pretty fucking dumb, huh?

>>1890654
Am I? Been watching wrestling for over 25 years. I was in high school during the Monday Night Wars which was the golden era of wrestling. I was at the royal rumble at MSG when Cena came back #30. Go tip your fedora somewhere else little boy.

>>1890658
You should be old enough to know better.

>30-something
>hatposting

>>1890667
Yup. Jericho is top 5 and Eddie Guerrero int even in the top 25 all time.

>>1890676
In regards to what, exactly?

>>1890680
Greatest wrestler. You ever read Bret Harts book? He grades wrestlers on 3 categories. Body, In ring ability, and charisma. Body has sort of taken a backseat ever since they cracked down on roids. Eddy is top 50 for sure, but probably the most overrated guy in the industry . Probably because he is dust now. Jericho gets it for in ring, entertainment value, and longevity. Guy is doing SOME of his best work currently even though he was awesome in WCW before he got over, and has had great runs like when he feuded with shawn in that dark angle. Oh and Jericho vs. HBK at safeco mania isn't a bad choice for your top 5 brother!

>>1890683
Eddie Guerrero had an excellent wrestling body, in ring ability and charisma. I'm not saying he was better than Jericho, but I would love for you to name 25 WWE wrestlers who top him in those three categories together.

>>1890684
He was 5'8. I'm a tough grader, and I actually choose to include a 4th category, drawing power. See Bret Hart didn't realize that a wrestler who puts fannies in the seats makes him at least in part, great. I could easily name 25 wresters who I consider better, but many of the categories are subjective. Also Lex Luger is severely underrated.

>>1890687
He was Mexican. Racist.

>changing your defense

We're done here.

>>1890676
>Jericho in Top 5
>Jericho over Eddie

>>1890683
>Eddy is top 50 for sure, but probably the most overrated guy in the industry . Probably because he is dust now.

People were calling Eddie GOAT back in the 90s.

You'd know this, if you weren't a shitposting teenager.

>>1890687
The fact that you didn't respond with the list is proof you're full of shit. You made a claim, back it up.

>>1890690
I guess you missed the part where I said Jericho gets in for entertainment value and longevity. I guess you don't comprehend all that well. Anyway here is the top 5 and it's pretty objective.

1. HBK

(Power Gap)

2. Hulk Hogan

3. Kurt Angle

4. Chris Jerico

5. Kevin Nash

Bye Felicia.

>>1890696
>Nash

I guess you're not old enough to have learned subtlety.

>>1890696
>I guess you missed the part where I said Jericho gets in for entertainment value and longevity. I guess you don't comprehend all that well. Anyway here is the top 5 and it's pretty objective.

I guess you're too retarded to figure out I didn't give a fuck about that part of your post because it has nothing to do with what I'm asking you. Changing the subject doesn't make you right.

>>1890696
>5 people

We're still waiting for your easily made list of 25. You're wrong no matter what until you post it.

>>1890704
He's already wrong because he put Nash at Top 5 in a criteria based off drawing power, in ring ability + charisma :P

>>1890695
sure

HBK, Hogan, Angle, Jericho, Nash, Undertaker, Austin, Rock, Steamboat, Flair, Cena, HHH, Edge , Mr perfect, BamBam Bigelow, Scott Hall, Dibiase, Jake the snake, Rick Rude, Sting, RVD, Mysterio, Benoit, Scott Steiner, CM Punk, Brock lesnar.

And thats just off the top of my head. And I didnt even get gay and start naming fossils like harley race or jerry lawyer or burn sammartino. so eat me.

>>1890696
You said 3 categories, then you were asked to back up a list using only those 3 categories. So 3 categories is the discussion. Nothing else you say matters, this is the claim you made now be a man and back it up.

>>1890704
see
>>1890707

:)

>>1890707
>shit better name 25 main eventers

>>1890707
>Mysterio on the list
>not Eddie

>RVD on the list
>not Eddie

>Steiner on a list of having in-ring abilities
>Nash on a list of having in-ring abilities
>HOGAN on a list of having in-ring abilities

You're literally an idiot.

>>1890708
>Jericho gets it for in ring, entertainment value, and longevity.

I said thats how Bret Hart classifies a great wrestler. In the same post I said I include entertainment value and longevity, So stop being dense. hence someone like Nash being so high in my book. Guy is hilarious and has brought a ton to the business.

>>1890710
You're saying that list has to do with ONLY body, in-ring ability and charisma as the categories for the rankings? And you have Hogan on that list?

Hahahahahahahahaha

>>1890715
You should learn how to read. No one cares about your additional categories you pulled out of your ass after you were asked to back up a claim you made.

>>1890714
Hogan gets a 20 out of 10 for charisma and entertainment value so it cancels out his in ring score. Besides that he wasn't terrible in the ring. He was ok and could put on a passable main event . If you were old enough to remember that you would already know it instead of getting all your opinions from other peoples forum posts not he internet.

>>1890718
>Hulk Hogan is two times as charismatic and entertaining as possible

Again, you're an idiot.

>>1890714
And if you think steiner didnt have in ring abilities in his prime you simply don't know what in ring ability means...

>>1890720
The guy still wrestles to his day. If you're counting longevity then it has to apply to Scott Steiner as well and if you take his entire career and average out his in-ring abilities, he's not that great.

You don't know how to rank very well.

>>1890721
>Scott Steiner

Body: 10 out of 10
Charisma: 8.5 out of 10
In Ring: 6.5 out of 10

25 out of possible 30 . Not many can mess with that.

>>1890707
Fuck it, I got time to kill:

>body:

>Flair
>Edge
>Bigelow
>DiBiase
>Mysterio
>Punk

>charisma:

>Nash
>HHH
>Bigelow

>in-ring:

>Hogan
>Nash

>>1890723
>steroids
>10/10 body

>>1890725
So you wanna take every professional wrestler who did steroids and disqualify them from the body category? There goes eddy....there goes cent....there goes luger....there goes pretty much everyone with a great body so you can't do that.

>>1890724
I don't understand what you did here. Are you really trying to say that Kevin Nash and Tripe H do not have charisma? Nash's career was based on his height and his charisma. HHH has put himself as one of the most powerful men in the history of the business on the back of his charisma.

>>1890727
I'm saying it's definitely not 10/10 material.

Again with the troubles reading.

>>1890728
>HHH has put himself as one of the most powerful men in the history of the business on the back of his charisma.
Yeah, THAT'S why. lmao

Nash booked the majority of his career.

>>1890729
>>1890730

You two are both confused. I feel sorry you are so easily manipulated by "popular/hat tipping" opinions. Do me a favor, both of you name 2 UNDERRATED wrestlers. No japenese weebo shit. Im saying WWE/WCW/ and ECW if you want. Even TNA. Go.

>>1890734
D-Lo Brown.
Chris Kanyon.

>>1890736
>Chris Kanyon

lol. At least your funny.

>>1890734
Jerry Lawler
Dean Malenko

>>1890739
>Triple H
>more charismatic than Chris Kanyon

>Ted Dibiase
>better in the ring than Chris Kanyon
>better body than Chris Kanyon

>Rey Mysterio
>more charismatic than Chris Kanyon
>better body than Chris Canyon
>Eddie Guerrero not on the list

>>1890740
Malenko is a great pick. I wouldn't say lawler is underrated he was champion like 75 times...

>>1890736

So between the two of you you guys came up with 2 good answers in Dlo and Deano . Good show.

>>1890741
lol. If you think HHH doesn't have more charisma than chris fucking canyon I don't know what to tell you. Dibiase was solid as fuck in the ring. Mysterio had a mask and didnt talk hardly at all for half of his career. Charisma doesn't just mean one the mic skills by the way. Why do you like Chris Kanyon so much? Are you gay like him?

>>1890742
You said WWE/WCW/ECW. Jerry Lawler. Underrated.

You're opinions are still shit, so I don't see why you think anyone cares if you approve four underrated wrestlers or not.

You're literally underrated wrestlers while trying to argue that they're not underrated with people who think they are underrated.

>>1890741
https://youtu.be/WYDsVN17OPo

Buried by Cena. Nuff said.

>he wasn't any good

lol.

>>1890745
>Triple H
>boring audiences with lackluster promos since the mid 90's
>charismatic

Dude would have been off television 10 years ago if it weren't for Stephanie McMahon.

>>1890748
>lol because big dick john said it i believes it too

k, someone underrating a wrestler doesn't make the wrestler not underrated. You aren't making sense.

>>1890749
He would have been off 20 years if it wasn't for HBK. Im not even a big fan of his career, hated him for the longest time. I mark for him now just out of nostalgia I guess. Have a good night man Chris Kanyon was shit tier though sorry. He is rated exactly where he should be which is pretty much null

>>1890752
You might be mentally retarded. Good night.

>>1890728
>Nash
>charismatic

Even as a Little Jimmy he bored me.

>>1890739
>At least your funny.

>your

>>1890734
holy shit you're dumb as fuck

>>1890759
You're literally underrating a wrestler while saying he isn't underrated. And he's the retarded one?

You should go to bed.

>>1890759
>I mark for him now just out of nostalgia I guess.

The state of this simpleton.

>>1890707
>no Bret Hart
>no Owen Hart
>no Randy Savage
>Edge
>Hulk Hogan
>Kevin Nash
>Rey Mysterio

>>1890759
So you're admitting that you are bad at ranking within your own categories like I said earlier? Wonderful.

>the state of Body/Charisma/In-Ring rank guy

>>1890101
>>1889907
>>1889914
It's because HBK is the GOAT, what's not to understand there`?

>>1888788
>pictured a penny
fucking kek

HBK and the Undercarder get called GOATs because of muh loyalty or something when neither drew a dime.

Ironically WM26 where the main event was the two of those guys was the biggest flop in the last 10 years

>>1890935
Its also funny cause Bret hart was also on the card. The 3 new generation shit anti draws all on the same card resulting in the lowest modern wm buyrate. Pottery

>>1889907
This was just from some smark message board though.

>>1890935
By this logic Cena, Batista, Edge & Jericho are also non-drawing flops because the match that went on last wasn't known until the show happened.

>>1890944
Difference being those guys (well, Cena and Batista - Jericho and Edge didn't draw either) have a consistent history of actually drawing - HBK and Taketty have a history of tanking buyrates that stretches all the way back to the new generation era.

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>>1888785
>stopped watching wrestling in 2001
>2016
>posting in an image wrestling board out of nowhere

Sure, kid.

>>1890935
>WM26
>bigger flop than 27, 29, 30, 31, 32

>>1891370
>27 wasn't a bigger flop than 26

Vince had to get on his knees and beg to the Rock to come back after WM26 failing

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>>1891370
Yes it was

>>1891386
I wonder what the 27 buyrate would have been like if Rock never came back, I'd guess around 700k seeing as a Shawn Michaels retirement match only did 885k and 27 had nothing close to even that without Rock.

>>1891386
More people buying it doesn't mean it was a failure, i.e. flopped. Using your logic we can say John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels or John Cena vs. the Rock were better than the Rock vs. Stone Cold or anything Hulk Hogan has done his entire career.

You could also argue that WM2000, again, WM2000, was bigger than Hulkamania.

>>1891391
wasn't*

muh bad

>>1891386
Based Big Movies Dwayne

>>1891391
You're comparing it in context, look at the big valley for WM 26 - an utter flop.

>>1891391
>You could also argue that WM2000, again, WM2000, was bigger than Hulkamania.

Well, it was or at least that period of time was. 2000 did insane numbers in regards to buyrates and ratings. You have to remember that the WWF was still expanding as a company during Hogan's run, Hogan probably drew more money overall past his prime in 1997/98 WCW just because of how big wrestling got

>>1888785
When he had that homo hug with flair and the closet fags got hard for them.

>>1891397
So, WM19, considered by very, very many to be one of the single greatest WrestleMania PPVs of all time, in your mind, was WWE's biggest WrestleMania fuck up since before the Attitude Era?

>>1891409
in terms of buys it's a complete flop. No-one's talking about match quality.

>>1891409
Actually ,yes

They made WM19 only available to order if you had a digital cable box which alot of people didn't have back then. It failed as you can see from that buyrate, the regular format would have done 1m+

>>1891410
Then you have to be completely retarded to think it has anything to do with whether or not a wrestler was good. By your own logic, John Cena is better than Stone Cold, who is literally still the biggest draw in WWE history and the numbers prove that.

>>1891411
You're an idiot. You clearly behave like someone who didn't even watch wrestling before 2012.

>>1891413
Damn Mark

>>1891415
>You clearly behave like someone who didn't even watch wrestling before 2012.
>Same guy who didn't even know why WM19 had such a low buyrate

kek, WM19 was a disaster and this was proven seeing as they changed the format back the next year and guess what? 1m+ buys for WM20. It was a WWE fuck up, no fault of the wrestlers

>>1891415
Haha wow this faggot is actually projecting. Stop describing yourself

>>1891419
This guy is right

t. 30 year old been watching since 95